Lynda

----- Original Message -----
> >January 20, 2001
> >
> > PRESIDENT BUSH ANNOUNCES RELIGIOUS AGENDA ON INAUGURATION DAY
> >
> >BUSH PRESENTS HIMSELF AS 'DETERMINED FOE OF
> >CHURCH-STATE SEPARATION,' SAYS AMERICANS UNITED
> >
> >George W. Bush, sworn in today as the nation's 43rd president, announced
a
> >religious agenda in his inaugural address, including an emphasis on using
> >houses of worship for providing publicly financed social services.
> >
> >Just moments after being sworn in as president, Bush used a speech laced
> >with religious rhetoric to explain the role religion will play in his
> >administration.
> >
> >"[S]ome needs and hurts are so deep they will only respond to a mentor's
> >touch or a pastor's prayer," Bush said. "Church and charity, synagogue
and
> >mosque, lend our communities their humanity, and they will have an
honored
> >place in our plans and laws."
> >
> >The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for
> >Separation of Church and State, expressed concern about Bush's comments.
> >
> >"Bush apparently believes he was elected national preacher as well as
> >president," Lynn said. "The newly elected president presented himself
today
> >as a determined foe of church-state separation. The Constitution he swore
> to
> >uphold simply does not permit the president to merge religion and
> >government.
> >
> >"Churches and other houses of worship play a cherished role in our
society,
> >but they do not have a role in our secular laws," Lynn added. "Bush's
> >remarks showed a gross insensitivity to the constitutional principle of
> >government neutrality on religion."
> >
> >Bush also used his inaugural address to emphasize his plans for
education,
> >remarking, "Together, we will reclaim America's schools, before ignorance
> >and apathy claim more young lives." News agencies were reporting today
that
> >Bush will unveil an education plan on Tuesday that will feature vouchers
> for
> >religious and other private schools.
> >
> >"Far too much of Bush's agenda calls for a unity between church and
state,"
> >noted AU's Lynn. "To protect the religious liberties of all Americans,
his
> >plans must be rejected by Congress."
> >
> >In one of his first acts as the nation's chief executive, Bush issued a
> >proclamation ordering today as a "national day of prayer." Bush, in the
> >proclamation, called "upon the citizens of our Nation to gather together
in
> >homes and places of worship to pray alone and together and offer
> >thanksgiving to God for all the blessings of this great and good land."
He
> >added, "I ask Americans to bow our heads in humility before our Heavenly
> >Father, a God who calls us not to judge our neighbors, but to love them,
to
> >ask His guidance upon our Nation and its leaders in every level of
> >government."
> >
> >Ironically, Bush quoted Thomas Jefferson both in his inaugural address
and
> >his day of prayer proclamation. Jefferson, a staunch advocate of
> >church-state separation, never issued a prayer proclamation in order to
> >preserve government neutrality on religious matters.
> >
> >"Bush would have been wise to follow Jefferson's example and allow
> Americans
> >to make up their own minds about how and when to pray," said AU's Lynn.
"It
> >would have gotten the Bush presidency off to a much better start.
> >
> >"The Bush Administration is only a few hours old and it already has
> signaled
> >remarkable hostility for church-state separation," concluded Lynn.
"Anyone
> >concerned with this nation's religious liberties should realize that the
> >next four years will be awfully busy."
> >
> >Americans United is a religious liberty watchdog group based in
Washington,
> >D.C. Founded in 1947, the organization represents 60,000 members and
allied
> >houses of worship in all 50 states.
> >
> >© Americans United for Separation of Church and State, 2001.
> >All rights reserved.
> >
> >518 C Street, NE Washington, D.C. 20002 202-466-3234

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/22/01 10:30:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lurine@... writes:

<< > >"Bush apparently believes he was elected national preacher as well as
> >president," Lynn said. "The newly elected president presented himself
today
> >as a determined foe of church-state separation. The Constitution he swore
> to
> >uphold simply does not permit the president to merge religion and
> >government.
> > >>

This is an incorrect statement. 1) The Constitution does not say anything
about separation of church and state. 2) The sentiment behind "separation
of church and state" is that the state not to dictate or sanction any ONE
religion. As long as a president promotes freedom of religion and is
inclusive of all religions he is acting constitutionally.

I wish those who make such public statements would have, at the very least, a
rudimentary knowledge on the subject of which they comment.

Kris

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/23/01 0:48:16 Uhr, louisaem@... writes:

<<
I wish those who make such public statements would have, at the very least, a
rudimentary knowledge on the subject of which they comment.

Kris >>

I read somewhere this past week that 70% of Americans believe the
words"separation of church and state" appear in the constitution. My
husband and I have been researching the constitution together, sound romantic
or what! Kimme

LisaKK

So you see an Office of Faith Based Services in the White House as a good
thing?

Wonder what the criteria will be to be the director. Think a Muslim or a
Wiccan or a Native American will ever hold that title?

We're playing with fire here, and we have enough evidence within the
homeschooling community to tell us where we're headed.

----- Original Message -----
From: <louisaem@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Seperation of Church & State ?????????


> In a message dated 1/22/01 10:30:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> lurine@... writes:
>
> << > >"Bush apparently believes he was elected national preacher as well
as
> > >president," Lynn said. "The newly elected president presented himself
> today
> > >as a determined foe of church-state separation. The Constitution he
swore
> > to
> > >uphold simply does not permit the president to merge religion and
> > >government.
> > > >>
>
> This is an incorrect statement. 1) The Constitution does not say
anything
> about separation of church and state. 2) The sentiment behind
"separation
> of church and state" is that the state not to dictate or sanction any ONE
> religion. As long as a president promotes freedom of religion and is
> inclusive of all religions he is acting constitutionally.
>
> I wish those who make such public statements would have, at the very
least, a
> rudimentary knowledge on the subject of which they comment.
>
> Kris
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
>

Lynda

Well, it certainly won't be an American Indian, I mean, after all, according
to His Fraudulency, the great Dumbya there weren't any American Indians in
Texas when he was govenor, so I am sure he will expand that belief now that
he is in the White House and embrace the policy of political genocide
(otherwise known as blood guantum) so that there won't be any in the entire
U.S. I mean, what other ethnic group is required to have a certified
pedigree???

Hmmmm, why did I need see the link before, Nazi gold, Nazi ethnic cleansing.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "LisaKK" <LisaBugg@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Seperation of Church & State ?????????


> So you see an Office of Faith Based Services in the White House as a good
> thing?
>
> Wonder what the criteria will be to be the director. Think a Muslim or a
> Wiccan or a Native American will ever hold that title?
>
> We're playing with fire here, and we have enough evidence within the
> homeschooling community to tell us where we're headed.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <louisaem@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Seperation of Church & State
?????????
>
>
> > In a message dated 1/22/01 10:30:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > lurine@... writes:
> >
> > << > >"Bush apparently believes he was elected national preacher as well
> as
> > > >president," Lynn said. "The newly elected president presented
himself
> > today
> > > >as a determined foe of church-state separation. The Constitution he
> swore
> > > to
> > > >uphold simply does not permit the president to merge religion and
> > > >government.
> > > > >>
> >
> > This is an incorrect statement. 1) The Constitution does not say
> anything
> > about separation of church and state. 2) The sentiment behind
> "separation
> > of church and state" is that the state not to dictate or sanction any
ONE
> > religion. As long as a president promotes freedom of religion and is
> > inclusive of all religions he is acting constitutionally.
> >
> > I wish those who make such public statements would have, at the very
> least, a
> > rudimentary knowledge on the subject of which they comment.
> >
> > Kris
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > Addresses:
> > Post message: [email protected]
> > Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> > List owner: [email protected]
> > List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
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> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
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>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/22/01 10:11:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
LisaBugg@... writes:

<< So you see an Office of Faith Based Services in the White House as a good
thing?

Wonder what the criteria will be to be the director. Think a Muslim or a
Wiccan or a Native American will ever hold that title?

We're playing with fire here, and we have enough evidence within the
homeschooling community to tell us where we're headed. >>

Not sure what is was I said that would lead someone to conclude that I would
favor such an office. I do not. However, do we invent new portions of the
constitution in order to prevent the president from something he MIGHT do?
All of life is a risk and there is always a danger of one religious viewpoint
being pushed on others. It is happening now and will continue to happen.
That is why checks and balances were instituted. Not even these will keep
things "fair" for everyone all of the time.

The bottom line is to act with integrity (not lie about what is in the
constitution) and act in accordance with the ideals of the constitution then
hope for the best. It's important to see an imbalance BEFORE it tips out of
our favor.

Kris

Patti

What a time for an introduction LOL! My name is Patti and I have just
begun 'schooling' my 5yo at home, despite much protest from the elder man
of the house. I've been lurking for awhile but had to come out and join in
on this topic :). I do not see OFBS as a good thing. Many charitable
groups, such as Goodwill, Salvation Army, etc. will not help those who are
not Christian. There have been stories from other religious groups that
attest to that fact, as well as a few people that I know of who it has
happened to. I am worried about the new administration, as Dubya already
stated that 'Witchcraft is not a religion' when good old Barr was making a
ruckus about the Texas Pagans in the military. So with Barr re-elected,
Dubya in the big house and (gulp) Ashcroft waiting in the wings, it's gonna
be a real bumpy ride for the next four years!

Patti the Pagan :).


At 01:08 AM 1/23/01, you wrote:
>So you see an Office of Faith Based Services in the White House as a good
>thing?
>
>Wonder what the criteria will be to be the director. Think a Muslim or a
>Wiccan or a Native American will ever hold that title?
>
>We're playing with fire here, and we have enough evidence within the
>homeschooling community to tell us where we're headed.

Bonnie Painter

The point being that he doesn't recognize any "religion" besides those
worshipping his God. Major problem in my opinion regardless of how the
Amendment reads.

Bonnie


>From: louisaem@...
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Seperation of Church & State
>?????????
>Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 00:45:13 EST
>
>In a message dated 1/22/01 10:30:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>lurine@... writes:
>
><< > >"Bush apparently believes he was elected national preacher as well as
> > >president," Lynn said. "The newly elected president presented himself
> today
> > >as a determined foe of church-state separation. The Constitution he
>swore
> > to
> > >uphold simply does not permit the president to merge religion and
> > >government.
> > > >>
>
>This is an incorrect statement. 1) The Constitution does not say anything
>about separation of church and state. 2) The sentiment behind "separation
>of church and state" is that the state not to dictate or sanction any ONE
>religion. As long as a president promotes freedom of religion and is
>inclusive of all religions he is acting constitutionally.
>
>I wish those who make such public statements would have, at the very least,
>a
>rudimentary knowledge on the subject of which they comment.
>
>Kris

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/23/01 7:36:53 Uhr, asrai@... writes:

<< OFBS >>

What does this mean? Kimme

dawn

> about separation of church and state. 2) The sentiment behind "separation
> of church and state" is that the state not to dictate or sanction any ONE
> religion. As long as a president promotes freedom of religion and is
> inclusive of all religions he is acting constitutionally.
>
but by no means is the "man-who-calls-himself-president" going to promote
inclusivity of all religions, and especially not of those who don't *have*
religions.
dawn h-s

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/23/01 8:04:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,
squeaksoup@... writes:

<< << OFBS >>

What does this mean? Kimme
>>

Office Of Faith Based Services

Lynda

He has already made statements that Pagan/Wicca are NOT religions. He
supports Barr's attempts to get them kicked out of the military. He has
already made statements against American Indian religions. He has already
made derogatory statements about various other religions which indicate
exclusive ideology.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "dawn" <dawn@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Seperation of Church & State ?????????


> > about separation of church and state. 2) The sentiment behind
"separation
> > of church and state" is that the state not to dictate or sanction any
ONE
> > religion. As long as a president promotes freedom of religion and is
> > inclusive of all religions he is acting constitutionally.
> >
> but by no means is the "man-who-calls-himself-president" going to promote
> inclusivity of all religions, and especially not of those who don't *have*
> religions.
> dawn h-s
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
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> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
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> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>

Erin M

><< So you see an Office of Faith Based Services in the White House as a
>good
> thing?
>
> Wonder what the criteria will be to be the director. Think a Muslim or a
> Wiccan or a Native American will ever hold that title?
>
> We're playing with fire here, and we have enough evidence within the
> homeschooling community to tell us where we're headed. >>
Lisa, you are putting words in Kris's mouth. She said nothing of the sort.
She was simply stating a fact. There IS nothing about the separation of
church and state in the Constitution and for that matter I thought this
nation was founded "under God". It's certainly says so on our currency amd
in our Pledge. We have religous liberty in this country and you can offer
flowers to Apollo if you'd like, it's not any of my business, but the
goverment has a right to make decisions based on the Judeo-Christian morals
that this country was founded on, as long as it doesn't force others to give
up their own personal beliefs.
-Ren


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LisaKK

Erin,
I'm not speaking for Kris at all. Those were my words. Those are my
questions. And it's me who is fiercely afraid of the fire we're playing
with. I've watched the homeschooling community be divided along religous
lines now for over 12 years. I really don't want the same thing happening
at the federal level. I realize that all might turn out well, and I
sincerely hope so, but I would be remiss if I didn't at least voice my
concerns.

The words *under God* were added to our national pledge in the 1950's. '54
I believe. If you visit the unschooling message boards you can find a
wonderful discussion about the pledge. Just do a keyword search.

And I also disagree whole heartedly about the seperation of church and
state. Thomas Paine has some interesting writings on the topic, as does
Thomas Jefferson. The men and women who we elect surely need to be
upstanding and knowing they have a faith that sustains them is a wonderful
thing. But our government does not have one religious foundation it must
adhere to. Our government is based on ****the people**** and we are
currently a pluarity of 288 million people. All of us need to be present
and represented within our republic. To believe it is just for Jews and
Christians to run this nation is to turn your back on the very document that
begins with "We The People." A document we honor when we let it live and
grow right along beside us.

LisaKK

ps Last Wed I watched a homeschooling mom tell her children, in front of
me.... if someone asks if you are a Christian, lie and say yes. I just
don't want to deal with anything else today. Is this the kind of nation we
want? Where people are so pelted with judgements and hassled they tell
their children to lie?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erin M" <arabhorses_rock@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Seperation of Church & State ?????????


>
>
>
>
> ><< So you see an Office of Faith Based Services in the White House as a
> >good
> > thing?
> >
> > Wonder what the criteria will be to be the director. Think a Muslim or
a
> > Wiccan or a Native American will ever hold that title?
> >
> > We're playing with fire here, and we have enough evidence within the
> > homeschooling community to tell us where we're headed. >>
> Lisa, you are putting words in Kris's mouth. She said nothing of the sort.
> She was simply stating a fact. There IS nothing about the separation of
> church and state in the Constitution and for that matter I thought this
> nation was founded "under God". It's certainly says so on our currency amd
> in our Pledge. We have religous liberty in this country and you can offer
> flowers to Apollo if you'd like, it's not any of my business, but the
> goverment has a right to make decisions based on the Judeo-Christian
morals
> that this country was founded on, as long as it doesn't force others to
give
> up their own personal beliefs.
> -Ren
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
>

dawn

> She was simply stating a fact. There IS nothing about the separation of
> church and state in the Constitution and for that matter I thought this
> nation was founded "under God". It's certainly says so on our currency amd
> in our Pledge. We have religous liberty in this country and you can offer
>
>
Hmmm...the Pledge is not legally binding by any means. And as far as teh
words "separation of church and state", the intent is there...Congress is
to make no laws establishing a religion...and I (and many others who are
more in the know on this) contend that monotheisim is, in a broad sense, a
religion. The Authors of the Constitution wanted to prevent religious
persecution and theocracy.
dhs

Lynda

Heavy on the "prevent a theocracy" which is a word that have bandied about
by Dumbya and the boys, namely Farris and Robertson.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "dawn" <dawn@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fw: Seperation of Church & State ?????????


> > She was simply stating a fact. There IS nothing about the separation of
> > church and state in the Constitution and for that matter I thought this
> > nation was founded "under God". It's certainly says so on our currency
amd
> > in our Pledge. We have religous liberty in this country and you can
offer
> >
> >
> Hmmm...the Pledge is not legally binding by any means. And as far as teh
> words "separation of church and state", the intent is there...Congress is
> to make no laws establishing a religion...and I (and many others who are
> more in the know on this) contend that monotheisim is, in a broad sense, a
> religion. The Authors of the Constitution wanted to prevent religious
> persecution and theocracy.
> dhs
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>