Kerry Kibort

the best
talks come at times when you aren't staring too
intently into each others
faces -- like in the car, or doing dishes together.
I think this is
especially true for boys, who don't want to let down
their guard if you are
actually facing them.

Wow! An epiphany if ever there was one! I have 3 boys,
the oldest is 7. I have been having such a tough time
with my relationship with him. He seems so far away
all the time- from me, not everyone else. I guess I am
trying way to hard to get him to relate to me the way
I want him to, not the way he needs to.
Thanks!
Kerry
--- Elizabeth Hill <ecsamhill@...> wrote:
> >These 'kids' of mine are boys aged 17, 13, 10!
>
> Hi, Carol --
>
> I didn't realize their ages. I tend to assume that
> everyone must have a 6
> year old, because I do. <g> Also, I probably
> underestimate how much older
> kids actually "need" their mother when she's busy
> weeding. Certainly yours
> are old enough to make their own sandwiches and tie
> their own shoes <g>
> which are the things that I get interrupted for.
>
> You know, having you deeply involved in weeding does
> create a great time
> for them to come out and talk to you. With older
> kids, I've heard the best
> talks come at times when you aren't staring too
> intently into each others
> faces -- like in the car, or doing dishes together.
> I think this is
> especially true for boys, who don't want to let down
> their guard if you are
> actually facing them.
>
> Betsy
>
>
>

Samantha Stopple

--- Kerry Kibort <kkibort@...> wrote:
> the best
> talks come at times when you aren't staring too
> intently into each others
> faces -- like in the car, or doing dishes together.
>
> I think this is
> especially true for boys, who don't want to let down
> their guard if you are
> actually facing them.
>
> Wow! An epiphany if ever there was one! I have 3
> boys,
> the oldest is 7. I have been having such a tough
> time
> with my relationship with him. He seems so far away
> all the time- from me, not everyone else. I guess I
> am
> trying way to hard to get him to relate to me the
> way
> I want him to, not the way he needs to.
> Thanks!


For anyone interested in doing a little reading on the
subject....I suggest "Boys Will Be Men" by Paul Kivel,
"Real Boys: rescueing Our Sons from The Myths of
Boyhood", There is another one written by a women that
debunks the myth that women/mothers aren't capable of
raising thier sons(I look it up later). That somehow
at some magic time mothers need to get out of the way.

There are few other books out there by Michael Gurian
(sp?)that are kind of popular but I didn't like them
because he seemed to think mothers needed to get out
of the way and turn their sons over into the world of
men. I am thinking here what bunk. Don't we live in a
world of Men AND Women.

What I like about the first three books I recommended
as they really get into how culture shapes our view of
our children's gender and who they should and the
social pressures boys face. These books spoke to me
about my son as "Reviving Ophelia" by Mary Pipher
spoke to me about my daughter.

You can take my advice with a grain of salt. I am just
a we bit femenist. I also think our culture sucks for
both boys and girls. And I am a mother who reads just
too darn much about everything.

Peace,
Samantha

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Samantha Stopple

>
>
> There is another one written by a women
> that
> debunks the myth that women/mothers aren't capable
> of
> raising thier sons(I look it up later). That
> somehow
> at some magic time mothers need to get out of the
> way.

I remebered the other book.

"The Courage to Raise Good Men" by Olga Silverstein.

Happy reading,
Samantha


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Tami Labig-Duquette

Another really good book,(so far, 1/2 way thru it), is Raising Cain-
Protecting the emotional life of boys, by Dan Kindlon,PH.D. and Michael
Thompson,PH.D.
I actually found it at Walmart, very inexpensive too.
Has anyone else read this book? I have found it extremely valuable in
understanding my son ( I only have one and 2 girls).
Hope everyone had the happiest of holidays!
Tami


>From: Samantha Stopple <sammimag@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] boys and mothers
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:01:07 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>--- Kerry Kibort <kkibort@...> wrote:
> > the best
> > talks come at times when you aren't staring too
> > intently into each others
> > faces -- like in the car, or doing dishes together.
> >
> > I think this is
> > especially true for boys, who don't want to let down
> > their guard if you are
> > actually facing them.
> >
> > Wow! An epiphany if ever there was one! I have 3
> > boys,
> > the oldest is 7. I have been having such a tough
> > time
> > with my relationship with him. He seems so far away
> > all the time- from me, not everyone else. I guess I
> > am
> > trying way to hard to get him to relate to me the
> > way
> > I want him to, not the way he needs to.
> > Thanks!
>
>
>For anyone interested in doing a little reading on the
>subject....I suggest "Boys Will Be Men" by Paul Kivel,
>"Real Boys: rescueing Our Sons from The Myths of
>Boyhood", There is another one written by a women that
>debunks the myth that women/mothers aren't capable of
>raising thier sons(I look it up later). That somehow
>at some magic time mothers need to get out of the way.
>
>There are few other books out there by Michael Gurian
>(sp?)that are kind of popular but I didn't like them
>because he seemed to think mothers needed to get out
>of the way and turn their sons over into the world of
>men. I am thinking here what bunk. Don't we live in a
>world of Men AND Women.
>
>What I like about the first three books I recommended
>as they really get into how culture shapes our view of
>our children's gender and who they should and the
>social pressures boys face. These books spoke to me
>about my son as "Reviving Ophelia" by Mary Pipher
>spoke to me about my daughter.
>
>You can take my advice with a grain of salt. I am just
>a we bit femenist. I also think our culture sucks for
>both boys and girls. And I am a mother who reads just
>too darn much about everything.
>
>Peace,
>Samantha
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
>http://photos.yahoo.com/

_________________________________________________________________
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Elizabeth Hill

>Wow! An epiphany if ever there was one! I have 3 boys,
>the oldest is 7. I have been having such a tough time
>with my relationship with him. He seems so far away
>all the time- from me, not everyone else. I guess I am
>trying way to hard to get him to relate to me the way
>I want him to, not the way he needs to.

You are very welcome. I think I borrowed the ideas from a book called
_Real Boys_. I didn't actually read the book, but think it was discussed
on Oprah, or 60 Minutes, or maybe on both shows.

Betsy

Elizabeth Hill

> There is another one written by a women that
>debunks the myth that women/mothers aren't capable of
>raising thier sons(I look it up later).

It's _The Courage to Raise Good Men_ by Olga Siverstein. Very
anti-Freudian. I love it!

Betsy

[email protected]

I enjoyed "Real Boys". My biggest critique of the book is that a lot of
what he says really applies to CHILDREN, not just boys. But he has some
great points, and written the way it is will be more likely to appeal to
those who are convinced that boys are inherently different from girls.

I am not saying that there are no differences - obviously there are - but
it has been shown that people even treat the mother's belly differently
when the sex of the fetus is known. So we will never be able to PROVE
what is inherently female vs male behavior and what is cultural. I've
heard of one culture that has 6 words for gender.

Perhaps we humans once needed to have men be warriors and women the
nurturers, but I would argue this is no longer true.

Mary Ellen
We just pretended to be ourselves
riding on the train.
"How Children Learn"

Bobbie

I agree with that. That's all.
It really chaps my hide when someone (well meaning, of
course) hears me say something about something I don't
want my son doing or something like that and says
"It's just a boy thing. You won't be able to help it."
yeah right. And as for my daughter...she wants to be a
firefighter and a mommy and build houses and a dancer
and drive a white truck that she works on herself when
she grows up. (She plays tea party with my mom and
thier porcelain dolls...all feminine like...and then
says "let me see if I have anymore. I'll be right
back, I'm just going out to my truck.") And her
brother resented that suddenly all the dolls that used
to be his were suddenly assumed by everyone that they
were hers. He loves dolls.
-Bobbie
--- megates@... wrote:
> I enjoyed "Real Boys". My biggest critique of the
> book is that a lot of
> what he says really applies to CHILDREN, not just
> boys. But he has some
> great points, and written the way it is will be more
> likely to appeal to
> those who are convinced that boys are inherently
> different from girls.
>
> I am not saying that there are no differences -
> obviously there are - but
> it has been shown that people even treat the
> mother's belly differently
> when the sex of the fetus is known. So we will
> never be able to PROVE
> what is inherently female vs male behavior and what
> is cultural. I've
> heard of one culture that has 6 words for gender.
>
> Perhaps we humans once needed to have men be
> warriors and women the
> nurturers, but I would argue this is no longer true.
>
> Mary Ellen
> We just pretended to be ourselves
> riding on the train.
> "How Children Learn"
>


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Lynda

I am sooooo glad that I was raised by a family of liberated folks. I had my
own hammer and saw before I was 5 and helped my dad work on motorcycles. Of
course, my grandmother was the first to own a motorcycle in NY and there
were lots of other non-traditional folks in my family <g>

Eldest son (who will be 30 in November) still has some dolls (latest ones
are from that crocodile/nature show thingy) which he collects.

It was always a hoot to see the looks on the faces of folks that didn't know
him when they saw his room. In the would tromp with my defensive lineman
son to the bedroom with the case of "dolls" and other collectibles like
Kermit and Chubacka (sp?).

We never put a his and hers on anything in our family! Much more fun that
way otherwise mom wouldn't have gotten to race at Sears Point %-}

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobbie" <insomniaaks@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: boys and mothers


> I agree with that. That's all.
> It really chaps my hide when someone (well meaning, of
> course) hears me say something about something I don't
> want my son doing or something like that and says
> "It's just a boy thing. You won't be able to help it."
> yeah right. And as for my daughter...she wants to be a
> firefighter and a mommy and build houses and a dancer
> and drive a white truck that she works on herself when
> she grows up. (She plays tea party with my mom and
> thier porcelain dolls...all feminine like...and then
> says "let me see if I have anymore. I'll be right
> back, I'm just going out to my truck.") And her
> brother resented that suddenly all the dolls that used
> to be his were suddenly assumed by everyone that they
> were hers. He loves dolls.
> -Bobbie
> --- megates@... wrote:
> > I enjoyed "Real Boys". My biggest critique of the
> > book is that a lot of
> > what he says really applies to CHILDREN, not just
> > boys. But he has some
> > great points, and written the way it is will be more
> > likely to appeal to
> > those who are convinced that boys are inherently
> > different from girls.
> >
> > I am not saying that there are no differences -
> > obviously there are - but
> > it has been shown that people even treat the
> > mother's belly differently
> > when the sex of the fetus is known. So we will
> > never be able to PROVE
> > what is inherently female vs male behavior and what
> > is cultural. I've
> > heard of one culture that has 6 words for gender.
> >
> > Perhaps we humans once needed to have men be
> > warriors and women the
> > nurturers, but I would argue this is no longer true.
> >
> > Mary Ellen
> > We just pretended to be ourselves
> > riding on the train.
> > "How Children Learn"
> >
>
>
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>

Elizabeth Hill

>I am sooooo glad that I was raised by a family of liberated folks. I had
my
>own hammer and saw before I was 5 and helped my dad work on motorcycles.

This brought back a blast from the past. A cartoon, published in Ms.
Magazine years ago. A little girl holdind a wrench in each hand, but
making them "talk" to each other and one is saying "Yes, Ken, I would love
to go to the prom with you."

Betsy <g>

P.S. (I've been doing a lot of home repairs recently, and wish that I had
spent less of my childhood playing Barbie and spent more time hammering.
However, I am in my element at Home Depot, because I sure can wield a
shopping cart!)

Bobbie

heeh, I too had my own little "tool pouch" from as
early as i can remember. my first hammer ("real" one,
as opposed to plastic and what not) I still have...
I've passed it on to my kids...it's survived 20
something years (which is a looong time for someone
who won't buy expensive sunglasses/watches cuz they
only last a week or two...), a house fire...(it has
smoke stains on the handle and little bubbles in the
blue paint on the head...).. and part of the little
head broke off at some point...but I love it. Still
use it all the time for hanging up pictures, etc...
the kids take alot of pride in asking me "mom, where's
my hammer?". Yeah having non conformists
parents/family is great. :)

-Bobbie (all nostalgic now....le sigh)
--- Elizabeth Hill <ecsamhill@...> wrote:
> >I am sooooo glad that I was raised by a family of
> liberated folks. I had
> my
> >own hammer and saw before I was 5 and helped my dad
> work on motorcycles.
>
> This brought back a blast from the past. A cartoon,
> published in Ms.
> Magazine years ago. A little girl holdind a wrench
> in each hand, but
> making them "talk" to each other and one is saying
> "Yes, Ken, I would love
> to go to the prom with you."
>
> Betsy <g>
>
> P.S. (I've been doing a lot of home repairs
> recently, and wish that I had
> spent less of my childhood playing Barbie and spent
> more time hammering.
> However, I am in my element at Home Depot, because I
> sure can wield a
> shopping cart!)
>
>
>


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