Meeting Government Standards
Roni Murphy
Hi,
I am very interested in Unschooling. My question is how do you meet the demands of Government officials. What do you do about mandatory testing? What about those who live in states where the law requires them to show what curriculum they are using and have to have it approved? What about those nasty social workers that come to your house and demand to know what you are teaching your child and to prove that they are learning? I've never had one come to my home, but I am concerned that it could happen.
Roni
[email protected]
In a message dated 00-12-01 08:03:45 EST, you write:
-=- My question is how do you meet
the demands of Government officials.-=-
There aren't too many government officials who care about homeschooling, and
fewer still who have the right to do anything about it. (And some of THOSE
don't care! <g>) It's not as if there are truant officers prowling the town
as there might have been in 1935 (or might not have been; a few towns had
them and parents in ALL towns used them as a boogeyman).
-=-What do you do about mandatory testing?-=-
Not all states have testing requirements. Some have options--testing at home
with a purchased test, or keeping a portfolio.
-=-What about those who live in states where the law requires them
to show what curriculum they are using and have to have it approved? >>
Is there anyplace besides Pennsylvania which has this requirement?
What you do if you're in Pennsylvania (or another such place if there is
one), is you find the local unschoolers and get their direct advice, look at
the packets they've prepared which have been successfully approved. A book
list, a set of proposed field trips, an explanation of interest-led learning,
some quotes from John Holt, a list of all the stuff in your house which can
be used for science... I know people do it, and they do it with lists and
words, not with the name of a curriculum.
-=- What about those nasty social workers that come to your house and demand
to know what you are teaching your child and to prove that they are learning?
-=-
Social workers can be good in worst-of-all situations. If there were no
social workers, a lot of kids would be in tears and hospitals and morgues who
aren't.
If you are neglecting or abusing kids AND homeschooling, when social workers
show up they'll want to know about homeschooling. If your kids are happy,
healthy, nobody has any reason to report you to a government egency, then you
won't meet any social workers. I know of one family here who's had social
workers repeatedly, but it's because the dad is way older than the wife and
one of his grown daughters calls them and tells them stuff. I know of one
family who had social workers once, and I think it was a routine thing
related to adoption (they have two of their own kids and three adopted from
overseas).
If your family is intact and you don't have any crazed inlaws or spiteful
relatives you're probably entirely safe. If you have an ex husband (parent
of the kids) or neighbors who REALLY wish your kids weren't making all that
noise (or that the'd go to school for six hours so the neighbor could have a
break), then those are the people you need to appease. That happens even
when kids are in school, though, sometimes, that you have to talk to the kids
about giving neighbors some peace, or you have to justify to their dad why
they're not in dance lessons or learning French cooking.
What state are you in?
Sandra
-=- My question is how do you meet
the demands of Government officials.-=-
There aren't too many government officials who care about homeschooling, and
fewer still who have the right to do anything about it. (And some of THOSE
don't care! <g>) It's not as if there are truant officers prowling the town
as there might have been in 1935 (or might not have been; a few towns had
them and parents in ALL towns used them as a boogeyman).
-=-What do you do about mandatory testing?-=-
Not all states have testing requirements. Some have options--testing at home
with a purchased test, or keeping a portfolio.
-=-What about those who live in states where the law requires them
to show what curriculum they are using and have to have it approved? >>
Is there anyplace besides Pennsylvania which has this requirement?
What you do if you're in Pennsylvania (or another such place if there is
one), is you find the local unschoolers and get their direct advice, look at
the packets they've prepared which have been successfully approved. A book
list, a set of proposed field trips, an explanation of interest-led learning,
some quotes from John Holt, a list of all the stuff in your house which can
be used for science... I know people do it, and they do it with lists and
words, not with the name of a curriculum.
-=- What about those nasty social workers that come to your house and demand
to know what you are teaching your child and to prove that they are learning?
-=-
Social workers can be good in worst-of-all situations. If there were no
social workers, a lot of kids would be in tears and hospitals and morgues who
aren't.
If you are neglecting or abusing kids AND homeschooling, when social workers
show up they'll want to know about homeschooling. If your kids are happy,
healthy, nobody has any reason to report you to a government egency, then you
won't meet any social workers. I know of one family here who's had social
workers repeatedly, but it's because the dad is way older than the wife and
one of his grown daughters calls them and tells them stuff. I know of one
family who had social workers once, and I think it was a routine thing
related to adoption (they have two of their own kids and three adopted from
overseas).
If your family is intact and you don't have any crazed inlaws or spiteful
relatives you're probably entirely safe. If you have an ex husband (parent
of the kids) or neighbors who REALLY wish your kids weren't making all that
noise (or that the'd go to school for six hours so the neighbor could have a
break), then those are the people you need to appease. That happens even
when kids are in school, though, sometimes, that you have to talk to the kids
about giving neighbors some peace, or you have to justify to their dad why
they're not in dance lessons or learning French cooking.
What state are you in?
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/01/2000 1:03:52 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
rsssjm@... writes:
<<
I am very interested in Unschooling. My question is how do you meet
the demands of Government officials. >>
I live in Florida. The "government officials" here aren't beating down our
doors to harass us.
What is the law where you live? Where do you live?
You might want to look at www.nhen.org. They have a page listing the laws in
each state and I think support groups too if you have local questions.
Good luck.
Nance
rsssjm@... writes:
<<
I am very interested in Unschooling. My question is how do you meet
the demands of Government officials. >>
I live in Florida. The "government officials" here aren't beating down our
doors to harass us.
What is the law where you live? Where do you live?
You might want to look at www.nhen.org. They have a page listing the laws in
each state and I think support groups too if you have local questions.
Good luck.
Nance
Roni Murphy
Unfortunately, Sandra, I have heard of too many first hand accounts of perfectly normal, healthy families being harassed by school systems truant officers and social workers having done absolutely nothing to warrant their interest. There are school systems out there that don't like loosing public funds to kids who are homeschooled and threaten families to make them enroll their children. Just read the latest Court Reporter for current examples in various states. We have had families in our own local Homeschool support group report problems. Some counties are more invasive then others.
Roni
LisaKK
Where did you hear of these reports?
Just read the latest Court Reporter for current
thing to remember that these people make 5 million a year from homeschoolers
who feel they might need those legal services... um.. . in essence they need
to keep you buying their snake oil.
While there are pockets of problems and there are some states that require
more paperwork than others, widespread fear of the system is a thing of the
past. The only state that I can think of that does not have a strong
homeschooling population is South Dakota, and even there homeschoolers are
not being harrasssed by social workers.
I've had a social worker at my door. She was nice and calm and rational.
Just like me. We talked and she went away. No muss, no fuss.
Which state do you live in?
LisaKK
Just read the latest Court Reporter for current
> examples in various states. We have had families in our own localOh, you might want to ask for specifics from HSLDA. It might also be a good
> Homeschool support group report problems. Some counties are more invasive
> then others.
>
thing to remember that these people make 5 million a year from homeschoolers
who feel they might need those legal services... um.. . in essence they need
to keep you buying their snake oil.
While there are pockets of problems and there are some states that require
more paperwork than others, widespread fear of the system is a thing of the
past. The only state that I can think of that does not have a strong
homeschooling population is South Dakota, and even there homeschoolers are
not being harrasssed by social workers.
I've had a social worker at my door. She was nice and calm and rational.
Just like me. We talked and she went away. No muss, no fuss.
Which state do you live in?
LisaKK
[email protected]
In a message dated 00-12-01 10:44:32 EST, you write:
<< Just read the latest Court Reporter for current
examples in various states. >>
If they're piled all in one place for purposes of trying to scare people into
joining HSLDA or something, then yes, it will look like the sky is falling.
But statistically, it doesn't much happen.
Sorry to be cynical, but much of the fear seems to me to have been created.
Finding and feeding a need for a product is part of advertising.
(If I'm wrong about whether the Court Reporter is a Christian-right
collection of scary stories, then I'm sorry--please let me know what it is if
I'm wrong.)
Sandra
<< Just read the latest Court Reporter for current
examples in various states. >>
If they're piled all in one place for purposes of trying to scare people into
joining HSLDA or something, then yes, it will look like the sky is falling.
But statistically, it doesn't much happen.
Sorry to be cynical, but much of the fear seems to me to have been created.
Finding and feeding a need for a product is part of advertising.
(If I'm wrong about whether the Court Reporter is a Christian-right
collection of scary stories, then I'm sorry--please let me know what it is if
I'm wrong.)
Sandra
Cory and Amy Nelson
I live in South Dakota and, while my daughter is only 17 months old, I've
already discovered quite a network of homeschoolers. Of course she's not at
an age where we would run into problems with officials and social workers,
but I'm comforted by hearing about little of that going on. I have to agree
with Lisa, though, that South Dakota - as with many issues - is a bit behind
the times.
Amy
Mama to Accalia (6/14/99)
"The hardest to learn was the least complicated" -Indigo Girls
The only state that I can think of that does not have a strong
already discovered quite a network of homeschoolers. Of course she's not at
an age where we would run into problems with officials and social workers,
but I'm comforted by hearing about little of that going on. I have to agree
with Lisa, though, that South Dakota - as with many issues - is a bit behind
the times.
Amy
Mama to Accalia (6/14/99)
"The hardest to learn was the least complicated" -Indigo Girls
The only state that I can think of that does not have a strong
> homeschooling population is South Dakota, and even there homeschoolers are
> not being harrasssed by social workers.
[email protected]
In a message dated 00-12-01 12:35:46 EST, you write:
<< I live in South Dakota and, while my daughter is only 17 months old, I've
already discovered quite a network of homeschoolers. Of course she's not at
an age where we would run into problems with officials and social workers,
but I'm comforted by hearing about little of that going on. I have to agree
with Lisa, though, that South Dakota - as with many issues - is a bit behind
the times. >>
If you never register her, you probably will never have any problems
whatsoever.
It's those who were in school and are pulled out who most need to be legal,
generally speaking.
There is much less government oversight of who's where than most people
think. Except at income tax time, you can be anywhere you want to be. We
could all move to Alaska TODAY, legally (those of us who are in the U.S.
anyway <g>), just get in a truck and go.
Sandra
<< I live in South Dakota and, while my daughter is only 17 months old, I've
already discovered quite a network of homeschoolers. Of course she's not at
an age where we would run into problems with officials and social workers,
but I'm comforted by hearing about little of that going on. I have to agree
with Lisa, though, that South Dakota - as with many issues - is a bit behind
the times. >>
If you never register her, you probably will never have any problems
whatsoever.
It's those who were in school and are pulled out who most need to be legal,
generally speaking.
There is much less government oversight of who's where than most people
think. Except at income tax time, you can be anywhere you want to be. We
could all move to Alaska TODAY, legally (those of us who are in the U.S.
anyway <g>), just get in a truck and go.
Sandra
Cory and Amy Nelson
I'm up for a trip to Alaska ;). Hopefully I'll never have to pull my
daughter or any other children out of school. Unless she would insist on
going. Have any of you run into that obstacle?
Amy
Mama to Accalia (6/14/99)
"The hardest to learn was the least complicated" -Indigo Girls
daughter or any other children out of school. Unless she would insist on
going. Have any of you run into that obstacle?
Amy
Mama to Accalia (6/14/99)
"The hardest to learn was the least complicated" -Indigo Girls
> If you never register her, you probably will never have any problems
> whatsoever.
> It's those who were in school and are pulled out who most need to be legal,
> generally speaking.
>
> There is much less government oversight of who's where than most people
> think. Except at income tax time, you can be anywhere you want to be. We
> could all move to Alaska TODAY, legally (those of us who are in the U.S.
> anyway <g>), just get in a truck and go.
Kerry Kibort
Is there anyplace besides Pennsylvania which has this
requirement?
Yes, here in Massachusetts you have to have your
curriculum approved by the school board. Our
Superintendent met with me and did the presenting to
the board herself. I've had no problems yet, knock on
wood, but if I ever do , they'll be sorry they messed
with this girl!
Kerry
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
requirement?
Yes, here in Massachusetts you have to have your
curriculum approved by the school board. Our
Superintendent met with me and did the presenting to
the board herself. I've had no problems yet, knock on
wood, but if I ever do , they'll be sorry they messed
with this girl!
Kerry
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
> In a message dated 00-12-01 08:03:45 EST, you write:
>
> -=- My question is how do you meet
> the demands of Government officials.-=-
>
> There aren't too many government officials who care
> about homeschooling, and
> fewer still who have the right to do anything about
> it. (And some of THOSE
> don't care! <g>) It's not as if there are truant
> officers prowling the town
> as there might have been in 1935 (or might not have
> been; a few towns had
> them and parents in ALL towns used them as a
> boogeyman).
>
> -=-What do you do about mandatory testing?-=-
>
> Not all states have testing requirements. Some have
> options--testing at home
> with a purchased test, or keeping a portfolio.
>
> -=-What about those who live in states where the law
> requires them
> to show what curriculum they are using and have to
> have it approved? >>
>
> Is there anyplace besides Pennsylvania which has
> this requirement?
> What you do if you're in Pennsylvania (or another
> such place if there is
> one), is you find the local unschoolers and get
> their direct advice, look at
> the packets they've prepared which have been
> successfully approved. A book
> list, a set of proposed field trips, an explanation
> of interest-led learning,
> some quotes from John Holt, a list of all the stuff
> in your house which can
> be used for science... I know people do it, and
> they do it with lists and
> words, not with the name of a curriculum.
>
> -=- What about those nasty social workers that come
> to your house and demand
> to know what you are teaching your child and to
> prove that they are learning?
> -=-
>
> Social workers can be good in worst-of-all
> situations. If there were no
> social workers, a lot of kids would be in tears and
> hospitals and morgues who
> aren't.
>
> If you are neglecting or abusing kids AND
> homeschooling, when social workers
> show up they'll want to know about homeschooling.
> If your kids are happy,
> healthy, nobody has any reason to report you to a
> government egency, then you
> won't meet any social workers. I know of one family
> here who's had social
> workers repeatedly, but it's because the dad is way
> older than the wife and
> one of his grown daughters calls them and tells them
> stuff. I know of one
> family who had social workers once, and I think it
> was a routine thing
> related to adoption (they have two of their own kids
> and three adopted from
> overseas).
>
> If your family is intact and you don't have any
> crazed inlaws or spiteful
> relatives you're probably entirely safe. If you
> have an ex husband (parent
> of the kids) or neighbors who REALLY wish your kids
> weren't making all that
> noise (or that the'd go to school for six hours so
> the neighbor could have a
> break), then those are the people you need to
> appease. That happens even
> when kids are in school, though, sometimes, that you
> have to talk to the kids
> about giving neighbors some peace, or you have to
> justify to their dad why
> they're not in dance lessons or learning French
> cooking.
>
> What state are you in?
>
> Sandra
>
[email protected]
In some states there are homeschool umbrella organizations
that are legally set up as private schools. If you enroll with one then you
interact with them rather than with the public school people. They are
generally inexpensive as they provide only protection, support and a bit of
record keeping. The nhen.org website looks good in terms of looking at state
regs and contacts.
that are legally set up as private schools. If you enroll with one then you
interact with them rather than with the public school people. They are
generally inexpensive as they provide only protection, support and a bit of
record keeping. The nhen.org website looks good in terms of looking at state
regs and contacts.
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/1/00 10:10:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< If you never register her, you probably will never have any problems
whatsoever. >>
This is always an option. Hardly any of the homeschoolers I knew in Santa
Fe, NM were registered (including myself) and in Maryland I knew a few people
who weren't. In Maryland I signed up with the school district, was found to
be not complying with the law because my daughter was an unschooler, and got
out of it by signing up with an umbrella group.
Here in Ca there are so many options that everyone I've met so far is
legal. I guess it depends on the individual inclination and how likely you
think you are to get "caught." I doubt that many school districts have energy
to track down unregistered homeschoolers.
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< If you never register her, you probably will never have any problems
whatsoever. >>
This is always an option. Hardly any of the homeschoolers I knew in Santa
Fe, NM were registered (including myself) and in Maryland I knew a few people
who weren't. In Maryland I signed up with the school district, was found to
be not complying with the law because my daughter was an unschooler, and got
out of it by signing up with an umbrella group.
Here in Ca there are so many options that everyone I've met so far is
legal. I guess it depends on the individual inclination and how likely you
think you are to get "caught." I doubt that many school districts have energy
to track down unregistered homeschoolers.