[email protected]

Things seem to be going well and bang I feel as though we have gone
backwards again.
Just to recap my dd is 12yrs old and we removed her from school in
may of this year. After a few weeks of school at home we moved onto
unschooling - it was/is very new to me and I did what I was adviced,
let her deschool and do what ever she chose to do for a while - I had
just about given up on her ever doing any learning again when she
surprised me by working with her math work book along with other
learning things.
Well this week I am back to square one. She has layed around
watching TV and moping around the house bored to death. She cant
wait for 3.30pm when her friend gets home from school.
I suggest we have a day out. perhaps the museum or somthing......even
a walk in the park or do some gardening - she gets very short with me
when I talk to her about doing something with our days instead of
lying around bored..........................There is a h/s swimming
club at the local pools on a tuesday, i thought she might like to go
there. I for one would like to meet some more h/s ers - dd doesnt
want to. She hates meeting new people.....
I want her to make her own choices to what she wants to do - but this
bordom is really getting to me - when we could be doing so much more -
and life is so short
marianne

Sonia Ulan

Hi Marianne;

Could it just be that your daughter is a typical pubescent 12 year old
with all the hormonal changes etc? That would explain the moodiness,
laziness, and uninspired lifestyle. Young teens, like pregnant or
PMS-ing women, tend to be depressed in a hormonally-induced way. I hate
to give you such news but this could continue for the next few
years?!...After a transitional phase she could yet get back on track on
her own, with your loving support. Then she'll be ready to move on.

Just a thought, Good Luck!

Sonia


tonitoni@... wrote:
>
> Things seem to be going well and bang I feel as though we have gone
> backwards again.
> Just to recap my dd is 12yrs old and we removed her from school in
> may of this year. After a few weeks of school at home we moved onto
> unschooling - it was/is very new to me and I did what I was adviced,
> let her deschool and do what ever she chose to do for a while - I had
> just about given up on her ever doing any learning again when she
> surprised me by working with her math work book along with other
> learning things.
> Well this week I am back to square one. She has layed around
> watching TV and moping around the house bored to death. She cant
> wait for 3.30pm when her friend gets home from school.
> I suggest we have a day out. perhaps the museum or somthing......even
> a walk in the park or do some gardening - she gets very short with me
> when I talk to her about doing something with our days instead of
> lying around bored..........................There is a h/s swimming
> club at the local pools on a tuesday, i thought she might like to go
> there. I for one would like to meet some more h/s ers - dd doesnt
> want to. She hates meeting new people.....
> I want her to make her own choices to what she wants to do - but this
> bordom is really getting to me - when we could be doing so much more -
> and life is so short
> marianne
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom

JoAnne Houghton

Hi Marianne
Wow when you describe your daughter it sounded as if you were describing my
son.
I have no answers for you I'm afraid just letting you know you are not alone
with these feelings, I am in exactly the same situation.
Matt has an odd spurt of doing something and then it's gone as soon as it
came and he is back to being bored, playing computer games or watching t.v.
He would like to meet individual H.Ers but they have to be the same age as
him (his words) but he won't go to any groups to meet up with people to
start with.
It can be exhausting constantly suggesting things and having them turned
down.
I just wish he could find an interest of his own.
JoAnne

----- Original Message -----
From: <tonitoni@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 9:24 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] help I need reassurance and advice!!


> Things seem to be going well and bang I feel as though we have gone
> backwards again.
> Just to recap my dd is 12yrs old and we removed her from school in
> may of this year. After a few weeks of school at home we moved onto
> unschooling - it was/is very new to me and I did what I was adviced,
> let her deschool and do what ever she chose to do for a while - I had
> just about given up on her ever doing any learning again when she
> surprised me by working with her math work book along with other
> learning things.
> Well this week I am back to square one. She has layed around
> watching TV and moping around the house bored to death. She cant
> wait for 3.30pm when her friend gets home from school.
> I suggest we have a day out. perhaps the museum or somthing......even
> a walk in the park or do some gardening - she gets very short with me
> when I talk to her about doing something with our days instead of
> lying around bored..........................There is a h/s swimming
> club at the local pools on a tuesday, i thought she might like to go
> there. I for one would like to meet some more h/s ers - dd doesnt
> want to. She hates meeting new people.....
> I want her to make her own choices to what she wants to do - but this
> bordom is really getting to me - when we could be doing so much more -
> and life is so short
> marianne
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
>

uebinger robyn

Dear Joanne,
Would your son be interested in a penpal? I don't know how old your son
is but mine is 11. He is very quiet and would never go to any type of
homeschooling meeting. We found one great penpal for him on this list and it
has done wonders for him. (Hi Soni,Nika, and Oleksa) His address is
ashtonjaymz@... If he doesn't want to be the first to write maybe
I can talk my son into it. My sons name is Ashton.
I also have a 7 year old son who would love to have a penpal. His address is
givenzane@... Good Luck I know how you feel. Robyn

>From: "JoAnne Houghton" <mjmk@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] help I need reassurance and advice!!
>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:52:47 -0000
>
>Hi Marianne
>Wow when you describe your daughter it sounded as if you were describing my
>son.
>I have no answers for you I'm afraid just letting you know you are not
>alone
>with these feelings, I am in exactly the same situation.
>Matt has an odd spurt of doing something and then it's gone as soon as it
>came and he is back to being bored, playing computer games or watching t.v.
>He would like to meet individual H.Ers but they have to be the same age as
>him (his words) but he won't go to any groups to meet up with people to
>start with.
>It can be exhausting constantly suggesting things and having them turned
>down.
>I just wish he could find an interest of his own.
>JoAnne
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <tonitoni@...>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 9:24 AM
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] help I need reassurance and advice!!
>
>
> > Things seem to be going well and bang I feel as though we have gone
> > backwards again.
> > Just to recap my dd is 12yrs old and we removed her from school in
> > may of this year. After a few weeks of school at home we moved onto
> > unschooling - it was/is very new to me and I did what I was adviced,
> > let her deschool and do what ever she chose to do for a while - I had
> > just about given up on her ever doing any learning again when she
> > surprised me by working with her math work book along with other
> > learning things.
> > Well this week I am back to square one. She has layed around
> > watching TV and moping around the house bored to death. She cant
> > wait for 3.30pm when her friend gets home from school.
> > I suggest we have a day out. perhaps the museum or somthing......even
> > a walk in the park or do some gardening - she gets very short with me
> > when I talk to her about doing something with our days instead of
> > lying around bored..........................There is a h/s swimming
> > club at the local pools on a tuesday, i thought she might like to go
> > there. I for one would like to meet some more h/s ers - dd doesnt
> > want to. She hates meeting new people.....
> > I want her to make her own choices to what she wants to do - but this
> > bordom is really getting to me - when we could be doing so much more -
> > and life is so short
> > marianne
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > Addresses:
> > Post message: [email protected]
> > Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> > List owner: [email protected]
> > List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> >
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com

JoAnne Houghton

Hi Robyn
My son is also 11, he thinks it would be a great idea to mail each other. We
are just about to go out but Matthew says he will send a mail when he gets
back.
My daughter is 8 if your 7 yr old son does'nt mind writing to a girl. Let me
know and then she will also write this afternoon.
Thank you for your message :o)
JoAnne

----- Original Message -----
From: "uebinger robyn" <emersonsage@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] help I need reassurance and advice!!


> Dear Joanne,
> Would your son be interested in a penpal? I don't know how old your
son
> is but mine is 11. He is very quiet and would never go to any type of
> homeschooling meeting. We found one great penpal for him on this list and
it
> has done wonders for him. (Hi Soni,Nika, and Oleksa) His address is
> ashtonjaymz@... If he doesn't want to be the first to write
maybe
> I can talk my son into it. My sons name is Ashton.
> I also have a 7 year old son who would love to have a penpal. His address
is
> givenzane@... Good Luck I know how you feel. Robyn
>
> >From: "JoAnne Houghton" <mjmk@...>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] help I need reassurance and advice!!
> >Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:52:47 -0000
> >
> >Hi Marianne
> >Wow when you describe your daughter it sounded as if you were describing
my
> >son.
> >I have no answers for you I'm afraid just letting you know you are not
> >alone
> >with these feelings, I am in exactly the same situation.
> >Matt has an odd spurt of doing something and then it's gone as soon as it
> >came and he is back to being bored, playing computer games or watching
t.v.
> >He would like to meet individual H.Ers but they have to be the same age
as
> >him (his words) but he won't go to any groups to meet up with people to
> >start with.
> >It can be exhausting constantly suggesting things and having them turned
> >down.
> >I just wish he could find an interest of his own.
> >JoAnne
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <tonitoni@...>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 9:24 AM
> >Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] help I need reassurance and advice!!
> >
> >
> > > Things seem to be going well and bang I feel as though we have gone
> > > backwards again.
> > > Just to recap my dd is 12yrs old and we removed her from school in
> > > may of this year. After a few weeks of school at home we moved onto
> > > unschooling - it was/is very new to me and I did what I was adviced,
> > > let her deschool and do what ever she chose to do for a while - I had
> > > just about given up on her ever doing any learning again when she
> > > surprised me by working with her math work book along with other
> > > learning things.
> > > Well this week I am back to square one. She has layed around
> > > watching TV and moping around the house bored to death. She cant
> > > wait for 3.30pm when her friend gets home from school.
> > > I suggest we have a day out. perhaps the museum or somthing......even
> > > a walk in the park or do some gardening - she gets very short with me
> > > when I talk to her about doing something with our days instead of
> > > lying around bored..........................There is a h/s swimming
> > > club at the local pools on a tuesday, i thought she might like to go
> > > there. I for one would like to meet some more h/s ers - dd doesnt
> > > want to. She hates meeting new people.....
> > > I want her to make her own choices to what she wants to do - but this
> > > bordom is really getting to me - when we could be doing so much more -
> > > and life is so short
> > > marianne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> > >
> > > Addresses:
> > > Post message: [email protected]
> > > Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> > > List owner: [email protected]
> > > List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
>

[email protected]

I hope you're all reading at www.unschooling.com and not just here. This
list is sometimes a little like a few people sitting on the lawn outside a
building in which there's a gigantic, happy homeschooling convention going
on. GET IN THERE!!!!

-=- I had just about given up on her ever doing any learning again when she
surprised me by working with her math work book along with other
learning things. -=-

HUGE alarms are going off in me about this. If a parent is hoping that
unschooling will result in a child somehow wanting to do schoolwork, or if
the parent has the world divided into "learning things" and lazy nothingness,
unschooling is going to be invisible to that parent. The overlay or the
template the parent has with which to measure success needs to be a vision of
unschooling, of learning in and from everything. If that template looks like
school, then the parent hasn't deschooled her own self and unschooling is
doomed to fail.

-=-she gets very short with me when I talk to her about doing something with
our days instead of lying around bored-=-

Lying around bored *is* doing something. Do you know what she's thinking?
What she's doing in her head? And when you "talk to her about doing
something" is it a shaming speech telling her she's wrong but if she does
something that looks like school she'll be right? If you make it sound fun
and you smile and ask her to go with you to do something (it doesn't have to
look like a school field trip and it doesn't have to involve other
homeschoolers), why wouldn't she want to go?

Are there other things for her to do at home? Are there crafts kits, cool
cake mixes and a new pan, art supplies, videos of musicals? A
keyboard/piano? What are her options? What alluring new and different stuff
is there to stimulate her thinking? If the answer's not much, how about a
mother/daughter trip to the thrift store? And don't look just on the games
and books shelves. Look in those little bags of weird kitchen and sewing and
deck-of-cards and sets-of-candles stuff. Do you know how to dip candles?
Ratty old candles can be recycled before Christmas. Does she know how to
play rummy? Poker? Solitaire? You could get out of there with hours of
thoughtful, smiley fun for a couple of bucks.


-=-I want her to make her own choices to what she wants to do - but this
bordom is really getting to me - when we could be doing so much more -
and life is so short-=-

When the boredom is really getting to her, she'll do something. Life is so
short that shaming kids for a few days or weeks of stillness is not a good
use of life. For her to make her own choices she has to HAVE choices, and if
the best thing she can think of to do is sit alone, something's wrong with
her other options. If she DOES get out of her room and do something
interesting, is she going to hear anything remotely resembling "It's about
time" or "I'm so proud that you broke out of your useless funk" or "Now
you're homeschooling like you're supposed to"? Doing that could send her
back into her room, I'm guessing.

Do you want her to find interests for your sake or hers? Will she get gold
stars for doing learning stuff? The learning itself should be the joyous
reward.

Someone else wrote:
-=- I hate to give you such news but this could continue for the next few
years?!...After a transitional phase she could yet get back on track on
her own, with your loving support. -=-

I wish to paraphrase the last part of that. In this sensitive stage, with
her just barely out of school (summer didn't count at all for deschooling,
and you're still in the first semester of not-at-school), with her probably
in the throes of puberty, you could screw it up so that she won't get back on
track if you shame and pressure her instead of loving her and being with her.

Again, please, go into the folders and read about what unschooling really
looks like. Replace that math workbook with something surprising and happy
for a while (or forever).

If you believe that learning always looks like schoolwork, just put her in
school.
If you're determined to have her out, find out what learning looks like in
the real world.

Sandra

[email protected]

From my experience with having gotten to the other side of 15 with two
kids, I have found that the years from about 11 or 12 - 15 tend to be very
inwardly focused ones. Huge internal changes are happening and kids need a
lot of time to "lie fallow" as it were. Then somewhere around 15 they start
to re-emerge and engage in more outwardly focused pursuits. Hang in there!
I'll write more later when I have more time.-Amalia-

Kerry Kibort

If you believe that learning always looks like
schoolwork, just put her in
school.
If you're determined to have her out, find out what
learning looks like in
the real world.

Sandra,
Thank you so much. I know this advice was meant for
someone else, but it hit home with a bang!
Kerry

--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
> I hope you're all reading at www.unschooling.com and
> not just here. This
> list is sometimes a little like a few people sitting
> on the lawn outside a
> building in which there's a gigantic, happy
> homeschooling convention going
> on. GET IN THERE!!!!
>
> -=- I had just about given up on her ever doing any
> learning again when she
> surprised me by working with her math work book
> along with other
> learning things. -=-
>
> HUGE alarms are going off in me about this. If a
> parent is hoping that
> unschooling will result in a child somehow wanting
> to do schoolwork, or if
> the parent has the world divided into "learning
> things" and lazy nothingness,
> unschooling is going to be invisible to that parent.
> The overlay or the
> template the parent has with which to measure
> success needs to be a vision of
> unschooling, of learning in and from everything. If
> that template looks like
> school, then the parent hasn't deschooled her own
> self and unschooling is
> doomed to fail.
>
> -=-she gets very short with me when I talk to her
> about doing something with
> our days instead of lying around bored-=-
>
> Lying around bored *is* doing something. Do you
> know what she's thinking?
> What she's doing in her head? And when you "talk to
> her about doing
> something" is it a shaming speech telling her she's
> wrong but if she does
> something that looks like school she'll be right?
> If you make it sound fun
> and you smile and ask her to go with you to do
> something (it doesn't have to
> look like a school field trip and it doesn't have to
> involve other
> homeschoolers), why wouldn't she want to go?
>
> Are there other things for her to do at home? Are
> there crafts kits, cool
> cake mixes and a new pan, art supplies, videos of
> musicals? A
> keyboard/piano? What are her options? What
> alluring new and different stuff
> is there to stimulate her thinking? If the answer's
> not much, how about a
> mother/daughter trip to the thrift store? And don't
> look just on the games
> and books shelves. Look in those little bags of
> weird kitchen and sewing and
> deck-of-cards and sets-of-candles stuff. Do you
> know how to dip candles?
> Ratty old candles can be recycled before Christmas.
> Does she know how to
> play rummy? Poker? Solitaire? You could get out
> of there with hours of
> thoughtful, smiley fun for a couple of bucks.
>
>
> -=-I want her to make her own choices to what she
> wants to do - but this
> bordom is really getting to me - when we could be
> doing so much more -
> and life is so short-=-
>
> When the boredom is really getting to her, she'll do
> something. Life is so
> short that shaming kids for a few days or weeks of
> stillness is not a good
> use of life. For her to make her own choices she
> has to HAVE choices, and if
> the best thing she can think of to do is sit alone,
> something's wrong with
> her other options. If she DOES get out of her room
> and do something
> interesting, is she going to hear anything remotely
> resembling "It's about
> time" or "I'm so proud that you broke out of your
> useless funk" or "Now
> you're homeschooling like you're supposed to"?
> Doing that could send her
> back into her room, I'm guessing.
>
> Do you want her to find interests for your sake or
> hers? Will she get gold
> stars for doing learning stuff? The learning itself
> should be the joyous
> reward.
>
> Someone else wrote:
> -=- I hate to give you such news but this could
> continue for the next few
> years?!...After a transitional phase she could yet
> get back on track on
> her own, with your loving support. -=-
>
> I wish to paraphrase the last part of that. In this
> sensitive stage, with
> her just barely out of school (summer didn't count
> at all for deschooling,
> and you're still in the first semester of
> not-at-school), with her probably
> in the throes of puberty, you could screw it up so
> that she won't get back on
> track if you shame and pressure her instead of
> loving her and being with her.
>
> Again, please, go into the folders and read about
> what unschooling really
> looks like. Replace that math workbook with
> something surprising and happy
> for a while (or forever).
>
> If you believe that learning always looks like
> schoolwork, just put her in
> school.
> If you're determined to have her out, find out what
> learning looks like in
> the real world.
>
> Sandra
>

Tracy Oldfield

To add to Sandra's reply (Hi Sandra!! :-) ) I was wondering what
interests you have? Does your daughter see you getting involved
with stuff, for profit or fun or just because it's got to be done?
Unschooling is hard to get your head round if you're used to the
'schooled' perspective. It's not about Maths or English or Physics
or French, it's about learning what you want/need to learn, when
you want/need to learn it. If that means learning how to deal with
not having someone else program your time, then that's a useful
lesson, I think. My children switched the telly off yesterday,
without being asked, in the morning while I was still asleep!
When I figured it out, I nearly cheered! My eldest is learning that
she can walk away from situations she doesn't want to be in, and
the youngest is learning that people don't want to be around her
when she's behaving bossily. Not bad for nearly-4 and 5yo's :-)

If you really want advice (and I don't like giving 'advice' it's really
tricky, information is much more useful) I'd say carry on relaxing,
keep on offering her choices, don't suggest anything that remotely
whiffs of 'education,' and leave her to it. Wish someone had done
this for me when I was 12.

Tracy O