Religion and Homeschooling
Tsigili Unega
I came to this list because it seemed to be on the
generic side when it came to religion. When I first
decided to homeschool I knew it might be difficult to
find other American Indian homeschoolers. While I
respect others religious beliefs Im glad to be on a
list that I am not inundated with being told how wrong
I am for being a "purist" or "heathen radical" and
teaching my son the ways of our ancestors. It was
very upsetting for my son to be called a devil
worshipper by other school children.
__________________________________________________
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generic side when it came to religion. When I first
decided to homeschool I knew it might be difficult to
find other American Indian homeschoolers. While I
respect others religious beliefs Im glad to be on a
list that I am not inundated with being told how wrong
I am for being a "purist" or "heathen radical" and
teaching my son the ways of our ancestors. It was
very upsetting for my son to be called a devil
worshipper by other school children.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
http://experts.yahoo.com/
Lynda
Welcome, from another one of those "devil worshippers." That is the great
thing about homeschooling the kidlets, I can tell them the truth about our
heritage and not have some nut telling them tall tales and lies!!! It also
allows us to be who we are and to actually study other religions in a
non-threatening, unbiased way.
Lynda
thing about homeschooling the kidlets, I can tell them the truth about our
heritage and not have some nut telling them tall tales and lies!!! It also
allows us to be who we are and to actually study other religions in a
non-threatening, unbiased way.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tsigili Unega" <whiteowl_4@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 11:40 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Religion and Homeschooling
> I came to this list because it seemed to be on the
> generic side when it came to religion. When I first
> decided to homeschool I knew it might be difficult to
> find other American Indian homeschoolers. While I
> respect others religious beliefs Im glad to be on a
> list that I am not inundated with being told how wrong
> I am for being a "purist" or "heathen radical" and
> teaching my son the ways of our ancestors. It was
> very upsetting for my son to be called a devil
> worshipper by other school children.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> >From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
> http://experts.yahoo.com/
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
[email protected]
We are followers of a "living saint" from India known as Ammachi and are part
of a Hindu Satsang in the San Francisco Bay area. I'm happy to see that there
is such diversity in the unschooling community. I'm also glad to know that
some of you are Native American. We're studying American History this year,
my 11yo daughter and 15 yo son and I. We're watching the video series, "500
Nations" which is that subject from a Native American point of view. It's
very well done and very intense. If anyone out there is studying American
History, I also have some good books to recommend, let me know. -Amalia-
of a Hindu Satsang in the San Francisco Bay area. I'm happy to see that there
is such diversity in the unschooling community. I'm also glad to know that
some of you are Native American. We're studying American History this year,
my 11yo daughter and 15 yo son and I. We're watching the video series, "500
Nations" which is that subject from a Native American point of view. It's
very well done and very intense. If anyone out there is studying American
History, I also have some good books to recommend, let me know. -Amalia-
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall
>While I respect others religious beliefs Im glad to be on aHow wonderful for your son to be learning about his rich heritage. I wish I had such a legacy to impart to my children. However, being a multi-European mix, with no particular family culture, religion, history, etc to pass on, I have very little to offer them in terms of heritage. I have only one grandparent, and have not spent much time with her in my life, plus she is not the storyteller type. My parents are also.......less than forthcoming about family history, nor do I enjoy spending much time with them due to their dysfunctionality.
>list that I am not inundated with being told how wrong
>I am for being a "purist" or "heathen radical" and
>teaching my son the ways of our ancestors.
BUT!! I can pass on my own spiritual and religious beliefs that I have developed in my life. We create our own family traditions to pass on to our children. We are what is generally called "eclectic Pagans" with beliefs mixed from all the influences that are important in our lives. We practice a mix of European traditions and Native American traditions, being Americans with European roots.
Nanci K.
------------------------------------------------------------
Show off your pagan (and Idaho) pride, get Idaho Pagan Mail(tm) today!
Sign up at http://www.idahopagan.com/
Lynda
Hello, did ya catch the Martha Stewart show today?? It was all about East
Indian cooking and little India in New York. Very interesting.
Lynda
Indian cooking and little India in New York. Very interesting.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <adarl52357@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 8:43 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re:Religion and Homeschooling
> We are followers of a "living saint" from India known as Ammachi and are
part
> of a Hindu Satsang in the San Francisco Bay area. I'm happy to see that
there
> is such diversity in the unschooling community. I'm also glad to know that
> some of you are Native American. We're studying American History this
year,
> my 11yo daughter and 15 yo son and I. We're watching the video series,
"500
> Nations" which is that subject from a Native American point of view. It's
> very well done and very intense. If anyone out there is studying American
> History, I also have some good books to recommend, let me know. -Amalia-
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
Susan (mother to 5 in Fla)
A friend's daughter is currently having major problems in ps because she
disagreed with her science teacher. He was telling the class that the earth
was many millions of years old & she explained that she didn't agree with
that. She then explained what she'd been taught by her parents New Earth.
Now the teacher finds fault with everything she says in class & marks her
papers more strictly than in the past or other students.
I remember myself in public high schoo. & disagreeing with the teacher on
the beginning of the world. I was told that that was for Sunday school.
But if I expected to pass the test I'd better forget it quick. My parents
weren't much help as they said just give the teacher what he wants for the
test & not worry about it. This didn't do much for supporting me & all
they'd taught me growing up. This did result in my taking a very hard look
at myself & beliefs & lots of research in the years that followed.
It's really sad that anyone should have to be confronted like this in an
educational setting. I've enjoyed this list because of the difference & no
one has offended or lectured their religion. It's so great to share, take
what I want & leave the rest.
disagreed with her science teacher. He was telling the class that the earth
was many millions of years old & she explained that she didn't agree with
that. She then explained what she'd been taught by her parents New Earth.
Now the teacher finds fault with everything she says in class & marks her
papers more strictly than in the past or other students.
I remember myself in public high schoo. & disagreeing with the teacher on
the beginning of the world. I was told that that was for Sunday school.
But if I expected to pass the test I'd better forget it quick. My parents
weren't much help as they said just give the teacher what he wants for the
test & not worry about it. This didn't do much for supporting me & all
they'd taught me growing up. This did result in my taking a very hard look
at myself & beliefs & lots of research in the years that followed.
It's really sad that anyone should have to be confronted like this in an
educational setting. I've enjoyed this list because of the difference & no
one has offended or lectured their religion. It's so great to share, take
what I want & leave the rest.
DiamondAir
> From: adarl52357@..."500
>. We're studying American History this year,
> my 11yo daughter and 15 yo son and I. We're watching the video series,
> Nations" which is that subject from a Native American point of view. It'sThere's a companion book and CD-ROM to the 500 Nations television series.
> very well done and very intense. If anyone out there is studying American
> History, I also have some good books to recommend, let me know. -Amalia-
>
The book is very big and detailed, the CD-ROM follows more of the TV show. I
don't know if they're in print anymore, but you might check E-Bay for the
CD-ROM and some of the online used book stores ( www.powells.com for
instance) for the book.
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I have magic in my mind"
and Asa (10/5/99) who doesn't want to take her fairy wings off...ever
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
Laura M
We are studying American History and would be interested in your
suggestions.
Laura
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suggestions.
Laura
>From: adarl52357@..._________________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re:Religion and Homeschooling
>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:43:12 EST
>
>We are followers of a "living saint" from India known as Ammachi and are
>part
>of a Hindu Satsang in the San Francisco Bay area. I'm happy to see that
>there
>is such diversity in the unschooling community. I'm also glad to know that
>some of you are Native American. We're studying American History this year,
>my 11yo daughter and 15 yo son and I. We're watching the video series,
>"500
>Nations" which is that subject from a Native American point of view. It's
>very well done and very intense. If anyone out there is studying American
>History, I also have some good books to recommend, let me know. -Amalia-
>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com
Susan (mother to 5 in Fla)
B & N says they have 26 copies in stock of the book.
There's a companion book and CD-ROM to the 500 Nations television series.
The book is very big and detailed, the CD-ROM follows more of the TV show. I
don't know if they're in print anymore, but you might check E-Bay for the
CD-ROM and some of the online used book stores ( www.powells.com for
instance) for the book.
There's a companion book and CD-ROM to the 500 Nations television series.
The book is very big and detailed, the CD-ROM follows more of the TV show. I
don't know if they're in print anymore, but you might check E-Bay for the
CD-ROM and some of the online used book stores ( www.powells.com for
instance) for the book.
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/1/2000 12:37:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
whiteowl_4@... writes:
<< It was
very upsetting for my son to be called a devil
worshipper by other school children. >>
It's funny--because nobody believes in the power of the devil (or even
BELIEVES in "the devil") like Christians. And to suspend a kid from school
for casting a spell must mean that they acknowledge the potential power of
that spell and therefore give credence and power to whatever believe system
is behind it.
Too weird for me.
If there is only one all-powerful God then all the heathen other-stuff is
nothing, make-believe, powerless.
I think philosophical issues like these are right there with the basis of
unschooling. People will base their lives on some pretty weird stuff. So
are we, basing our lives on the idea that people so much want and need to
learn that all you need to do is keep them healthy and busy and useful
information will just fill them up to the top and overflow!! (I believe
that, but I am in the minority in this country and in Western Culture on that
topic.)
People who know nothing of Christianity and the Christian homeschooling
movement will be unprepared to answer questions or defend their own beliefs
when challenged about homeschooling, the history of homeschooling, and
whether children MUST have discipline, schedules, pressure, etc. These kinds
of "educational theories" are deeply rooted in western religion.
Sandra
whiteowl_4@... writes:
<< It was
very upsetting for my son to be called a devil
worshipper by other school children. >>
It's funny--because nobody believes in the power of the devil (or even
BELIEVES in "the devil") like Christians. And to suspend a kid from school
for casting a spell must mean that they acknowledge the potential power of
that spell and therefore give credence and power to whatever believe system
is behind it.
Too weird for me.
If there is only one all-powerful God then all the heathen other-stuff is
nothing, make-believe, powerless.
I think philosophical issues like these are right there with the basis of
unschooling. People will base their lives on some pretty weird stuff. So
are we, basing our lives on the idea that people so much want and need to
learn that all you need to do is keep them healthy and busy and useful
information will just fill them up to the top and overflow!! (I believe
that, but I am in the minority in this country and in Western Culture on that
topic.)
People who know nothing of Christianity and the Christian homeschooling
movement will be unprepared to answer questions or defend their own beliefs
when challenged about homeschooling, the history of homeschooling, and
whether children MUST have discipline, schedules, pressure, etc. These kinds
of "educational theories" are deeply rooted in western religion.
Sandra
Tami Labig-Duquette
Sandra
I dont feel you should make such comments about someones religion!
Her beliefs are very powerful and not make believe.
Tami
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I dont feel you should make such comments about someones religion!
Her beliefs are very powerful and not make believe.
Tami
>From: SandraDodd@..._________________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Religion and Homeschooling
>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 14:04:36 EST
>
>In a message dated 11/1/2000 12:37:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>whiteowl_4@... writes:
>
><< It was
> very upsetting for my son to be called a devil
> worshipper by other school children. >>
>
>It's funny--because nobody believes in the power of the devil (or even
>BELIEVES in "the devil") like Christians. And to suspend a kid from school
>for casting a spell must mean that they acknowledge the potential power of
>that spell and therefore give credence and power to whatever believe system
>is behind it.
>
>Too weird for me.
>
>If there is only one all-powerful God then all the heathen other-stuff is
>nothing, make-believe, powerless.
>
>I think philosophical issues like these are right there with the basis of
>unschooling. People will base their lives on some pretty weird stuff. So
>are we, basing our lives on the idea that people so much want and need to
>learn that all you need to do is keep them healthy and busy and useful
>information will just fill them up to the top and overflow!! (I believe
>that, but I am in the minority in this country and in Western Culture on
>that
>topic.)
>
>People who know nothing of Christianity and the Christian homeschooling
>movement will be unprepared to answer questions or defend their own beliefs
>when challenged about homeschooling, the history of homeschooling, and
>whether children MUST have discipline, schedules, pressure, etc. These
>kinds
>of "educational theories" are deeply rooted in western religion.
>
>Sandra
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com
Kathryn B Cauley
We deal with this a lot since my husband is a youth minister. Many
stories like "they told me I wasn't "allowed" to have my bible at school"
Since when did that new legislation come about. They could try and give
some insight
into others beliefs/differences. Isn't that the curriculum? Respect
others differences.
Or couldn't they be happy the child is at least reading?
We also recently had a conversation with a girl in 10th grade ps who had
to read three books of the bible and write reports on each book.
Religious or not what a great assignment. She didn't own a bible and had
no clue that there were so many.
They also read and fif reports on other religious books. Wonder how they
got away with that one?
Kathy in houston
On Fri, 3 Nov 2000 08:46:31 -0500 "Susan \(mother to 5 in Fla\)"
<samiot@...> writes:
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
stories like "they told me I wasn't "allowed" to have my bible at school"
Since when did that new legislation come about. They could try and give
some insight
into others beliefs/differences. Isn't that the curriculum? Respect
others differences.
Or couldn't they be happy the child is at least reading?
We also recently had a conversation with a girl in 10th grade ps who had
to read three books of the bible and write reports on each book.
Religious or not what a great assignment. She didn't own a bible and had
no clue that there were so many.
They also read and fif reports on other religious books. Wonder how they
got away with that one?
Kathy in houston
On Fri, 3 Nov 2000 08:46:31 -0500 "Susan \(mother to 5 in Fla\)"
<samiot@...> writes:
>A friend's daughter is currently having major problems in ps because________________________________________________________________
>she
>disagreed with her science teacher. He was telling the class that the
>earth
>was many millions of years old & she explained that she didn't agree
>with
>that. She then explained what she'd been taught by her parents New
>Earth./she says in class & marks
>her
>papers more strictly than in the past or other students.
>
>I remember myself in public high schoo. & disagreeing with the teacher
>on
>the beginning of the world. I was told that that was for Sunday
>school.
>But if I expected to pass the test I'd better forget it quick. My
>parents
>weren't much help as they said just give the teacher what he wants for
>the
>test & not worry about it. This didn't do much for supporting me &
>all
>they'd taught me growing up. This did result in my taking a very hard
>look
>at myself & beliefs & lots of research in the years that followed.
>
>It's really sad that anyone should have to be confronted like this in
>an
>educational setting. I've enjoyed this list because of the difference
>& no
>one has offended or lectured their religion. It's so great to share,
>take
>what I want & leave the rest.
>
>
>-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
>
>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>Addresses:
>Post message: [email protected]
>Unsubscribe: [email protected]
>List owner: [email protected]
>List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Shelli Oliver
on 11/4/00 10:00 PM, Tami Labig-Duquette at labigduquette@... wrote:
> SandraAen Sandra! Shelli
> I dont feel you should make such comments about someones religion!
> Her beliefs are very powerful and not make believe.
> Tami
>
>
>
>> From: SandraDodd@...
>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Religion and Homeschooling
>> Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 14:04:36 EST
>>
>> In a message dated 11/1/2000 12:37:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>> whiteowl_4@... writes:
>>
>> << It was
>> very upsetting for my son to be called a devil
>> worshipper by other school children. >>
>>
>> It's funny--because nobody believes in the power of the devil (or even
>> BELIEVES in "the devil") like Christians. And to suspend a kid from school
>> for casting a spell must mean that they acknowledge the potential power of
>> that spell and therefore give credence and power to whatever believe system
>> is behind it.
>>
>> Too weird for me.
>>
>> If there is only one all-powerful God then all the heathen other-stuff is
>> nothing, make-believe, powerless.
>>
>> I think philosophical issues like these are right there with the basis of
>> unschooling. People will base their lives on some pretty weird stuff. So
>> are we, basing our lives on the idea that people so much want and need to
>> learn that all you need to do is keep them healthy and busy and useful
>> information will just fill them up to the top and overflow!! (I believe
>> that, but I am in the minority in this country and in Western Culture on
>> that
>> topic.)
>>
>> People who know nothing of Christianity and the Christian homeschooling
>> movement will be unprepared to answer questions or defend their own beliefs
>> when challenged about homeschooling, the history of homeschooling, and
>> whether children MUST have discipline, schedules, pressure, etc. These
>> kinds
>> of "educational theories" are deeply rooted in western religion.
>>
>> Sandra
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
>
Shelli Oliver
on 11/7/00 2:58 AM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
and nowhere else. Forget the devil and etc...that is ridiculous! Shelli
> In a message dated 00-11-05 13:28:28 EST, you write:Sandra, I totally agree! Sometimes people spend too much time on the devil
>
> << I dont feel you should make such comments about someones religion!
> Her beliefs are very powerful and not make believe. >>
>
> Which person do you think I potentially offended?
>
> <<><< It was
>> very upsetting for my son to be called a devil
>> worshipper by other school children. >>>>
>
> WAS her son a devil worshipper?
> I don't think so.
>
> My point was the only people who seem to even believe in the devil are
> Christians (and some Christians/former Christians who really truly want to
> irritate their parents and so they "become" Satan worshippers for a while,
> but I certainly know of no second generation Satanists, nor even any longterm
> Satanists. It seems once the parents are gone or insufficiently irritated,
> it's not fun anymore. And there are *WAY* fewer Satanists [if any] than the
> "sky-is-falling" Christian right likes to claim are out there waiting to get
> you and your little cat too) . (Okay, I screwed up the punctuation and I
> don't want to fix it.)
>
> So when Christians express horror or fear of ANY non-Christian behavior or
> belief, they themselves are giving credence (acknowledgement/validity/power)
> to a power or deity which their own religion says can't and doesn't even
> exist. It is illogical, from the Christian's point of view, to give a rat's
> patoot about anyone else's prayers/curses/statues.
>
> Please tell me if I haven't made sense with this yet, because it's an
> important point for people to understand, and many who have grown up immersed
> in Christianity their whole lives are as surprised to hear that as they are
> to hear that Christianity is based on human sacrifice and cannibalism.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
>
and nowhere else. Forget the devil and etc...that is ridiculous! Shelli
Shelli Oliver
on 11/7/00 2:58 AM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
> In a message dated 00-11-05 13:28:28 EST, you write:By the way Sandra, my maiden name is Dodd, where are you from? shelli
>
> << I dont feel you should make such comments about someones religion!
> Her beliefs are very powerful and not make believe. >>
>
> Which person do you think I potentially offended?
>
> <<><< It was
>> very upsetting for my son to be called a devil
>> worshipper by other school children. >>>>
>
> WAS her son a devil worshipper?
> I don't think so.
>
> My point was the only people who seem to even believe in the devil are
> Christians (and some Christians/former Christians who really truly want to
> irritate their parents and so they "become" Satan worshippers for a while,
> but I certainly know of no second generation Satanists, nor even any longterm
> Satanists. It seems once the parents are gone or insufficiently irritated,
> it's not fun anymore. And there are *WAY* fewer Satanists [if any] than the
> "sky-is-falling" Christian right likes to claim are out there waiting to get
> you and your little cat too) . (Okay, I screwed up the punctuation and I
> don't want to fix it.)
>
> So when Christians express horror or fear of ANY non-Christian behavior or
> belief, they themselves are giving credence (acknowledgement/validity/power)
> to a power or deity which their own religion says can't and doesn't even
> exist. It is illogical, from the Christian's point of view, to give a rat's
> patoot about anyone else's prayers/curses/statues.
>
> Please tell me if I haven't made sense with this yet, because it's an
> important point for people to understand, and many who have grown up immersed
> in Christianity their whole lives are as surprised to hear that as they are
> to hear that Christianity is based on human sacrifice and cannibalism.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 00-11-05 13:28:28 EST, you write:
<< I dont feel you should make such comments about someones religion!
Her beliefs are very powerful and not make believe. >>
Which person do you think I potentially offended?
<<><< It was
I don't think so.
My point was the only people who seem to even believe in the devil are
Christians (and some Christians/former Christians who really truly want to
irritate their parents and so they "become" Satan worshippers for a while,
but I certainly know of no second generation Satanists, nor even any longterm
Satanists. It seems once the parents are gone or insufficiently irritated,
it's not fun anymore. And there are *WAY* fewer Satanists [if any] than the
"sky-is-falling" Christian right likes to claim are out there waiting to get
you and your little cat too) . (Okay, I screwed up the punctuation and I
don't want to fix it.)
So when Christians express horror or fear of ANY non-Christian behavior or
belief, they themselves are giving credence (acknowledgement/validity/power)
to a power or deity which their own religion says can't and doesn't even
exist. It is illogical, from the Christian's point of view, to give a rat's
patoot about anyone else's prayers/curses/statues.
Please tell me if I haven't made sense with this yet, because it's an
important point for people to understand, and many who have grown up immersed
in Christianity their whole lives are as surprised to hear that as they are
to hear that Christianity is based on human sacrifice and cannibalism.
Sandra
<< I dont feel you should make such comments about someones religion!
Her beliefs are very powerful and not make believe. >>
Which person do you think I potentially offended?
<<><< It was
> very upsetting for my son to be called a devilWAS her son a devil worshipper?
> worshipper by other school children. >>>>
I don't think so.
My point was the only people who seem to even believe in the devil are
Christians (and some Christians/former Christians who really truly want to
irritate their parents and so they "become" Satan worshippers for a while,
but I certainly know of no second generation Satanists, nor even any longterm
Satanists. It seems once the parents are gone or insufficiently irritated,
it's not fun anymore. And there are *WAY* fewer Satanists [if any] than the
"sky-is-falling" Christian right likes to claim are out there waiting to get
you and your little cat too) . (Okay, I screwed up the punctuation and I
don't want to fix it.)
So when Christians express horror or fear of ANY non-Christian behavior or
belief, they themselves are giving credence (acknowledgement/validity/power)
to a power or deity which their own religion says can't and doesn't even
exist. It is illogical, from the Christian's point of view, to give a rat's
patoot about anyone else's prayers/curses/statues.
Please tell me if I haven't made sense with this yet, because it's an
important point for people to understand, and many who have grown up immersed
in Christianity their whole lives are as surprised to hear that as they are
to hear that Christianity is based on human sacrifice and cannibalism.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/7/00 2:19:23 AM Central Standard Time,
sdoliver@... writes:
<< > So when Christians express horror or fear of ANY non-Christian behavior
or
so we are thrilled.
I told myself I was not going to join in on this discussion as everyone
always gets upset and angry when religion is the subject. Changed my mind :)
I enjoyed reading Sandra's remarks about Satanism because the kids and I
have been reading up on Halloween after an adult friend of my daughters told
her Halloween was Satan's holiday. It got us curious as to how this theory
came about. Of course when we researched it we found nothing about Satanism
but instead read all about Paganism. Very interesting. Learned a lot of
history. I wonder how all these Satan ideas got started.
I also thought Sandra's remarks about Christianity being based on human
sacrifice and cannibalism was interesting. We just saw a show on the Travel
Channel about how horridly cruel people were to each other. And yes they were
Catholic (as that was the only Christians at that time ). An example would be
witch burning, caused by the fear of Christians of witchcraft (and also just
a good way to get rid of someone you did not like). Lets face it, humans have
a bloody horrid history.
Religion. It certainly seems to bring out both the worst and the best in
people. I am not talking about anyone on this list. I am thinking of my
experiences with people I have known. I have know people who argue that their
doctrine is the right one, they argue even though no one is challenging them
or wanting to debate it. I have known people who do not even want to talk to
people outside their faith. Personally I do not enjoy arguing religion. I do
enjoy reading about religions and their histories. For example I did not even
realize that there were still Pagans until I got online. I live in rural Ks
what can I say. I encouraged the kids to read up on the Pagan religion when
they came to me saying they has met new Pagan epals. I also encouraged them
to read up on Buddhism when they had a big interest in Japan. Information
will help them make decisions when they are adults. I cannot force them to
follow me, the time is getting near when they will have to make their own
choices. ( and besides, half the time I am lost anyway).
I believe in being kind to everyone, no matter what. I try hard not to judge.
Being non judgmental is one of humanities biggest hurdles I think.
Do not let the views on this list make you angry. This is a good list and I
would hate to see it go. Keep in mind that when expressing an opinion
feelings could be hurt. So be careful
Have a great day
peace and grace
Candy
sdoliver@... writes:
<< > So when Christians express horror or fear of ANY non-Christian behavior
or
> belief, they themselves are giving credence(acknowledgement/validity/power)
> to a power or deity which their own religion says can't and doesn't evenrat's
> exist. It is illogical, from the Christian's point of view, to give a
> patoot about anyone else's prayers/curses/statues.immersed
>
> Please tell me if I haven't made sense with this yet, because it's an
> important point for people to understand, and many who have grown up
> in Christianity their whole lives are as surprised to hear that as they areHi all, is everyone have a good day. The sun is shining here for a change and
> to hear that Christianity is based on human sacrifice and cannibalism. >>
so we are thrilled.
I told myself I was not going to join in on this discussion as everyone
always gets upset and angry when religion is the subject. Changed my mind :)
I enjoyed reading Sandra's remarks about Satanism because the kids and I
have been reading up on Halloween after an adult friend of my daughters told
her Halloween was Satan's holiday. It got us curious as to how this theory
came about. Of course when we researched it we found nothing about Satanism
but instead read all about Paganism. Very interesting. Learned a lot of
history. I wonder how all these Satan ideas got started.
I also thought Sandra's remarks about Christianity being based on human
sacrifice and cannibalism was interesting. We just saw a show on the Travel
Channel about how horridly cruel people were to each other. And yes they were
Catholic (as that was the only Christians at that time ). An example would be
witch burning, caused by the fear of Christians of witchcraft (and also just
a good way to get rid of someone you did not like). Lets face it, humans have
a bloody horrid history.
Religion. It certainly seems to bring out both the worst and the best in
people. I am not talking about anyone on this list. I am thinking of my
experiences with people I have known. I have know people who argue that their
doctrine is the right one, they argue even though no one is challenging them
or wanting to debate it. I have known people who do not even want to talk to
people outside their faith. Personally I do not enjoy arguing religion. I do
enjoy reading about religions and their histories. For example I did not even
realize that there were still Pagans until I got online. I live in rural Ks
what can I say. I encouraged the kids to read up on the Pagan religion when
they came to me saying they has met new Pagan epals. I also encouraged them
to read up on Buddhism when they had a big interest in Japan. Information
will help them make decisions when they are adults. I cannot force them to
follow me, the time is getting near when they will have to make their own
choices. ( and besides, half the time I am lost anyway).
I believe in being kind to everyone, no matter what. I try hard not to judge.
Being non judgmental is one of humanities biggest hurdles I think.
Do not let the views on this list make you angry. This is a good list and I
would hate to see it go. Keep in mind that when expressing an opinion
feelings could be hurt. So be careful
Have a great day
peace and grace
Candy
Tami Labig-Duquette
I think I misunderstood her intial e-mail.
Reading all the posts leads me to this. OOPS :)
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http://profiles.msn.com
Reading all the posts leads me to this. OOPS :)
>From: SandraDodd@..._________________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Religion and Homeschooling
>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:58:26 EST
>
>In a message dated 00-11-05 13:28:28 EST, you write:
>
><< I dont feel you should make such comments about someones religion!
> Her beliefs are very powerful and not make believe. >>
>
>Which person do you think I potentially offended?
>
><<><< It was
> > very upsetting for my son to be called a devil
> > worshipper by other school children. >>>>
>
>WAS her son a devil worshipper?
>I don't think so.
>
>My point was the only people who seem to even believe in the devil are
>Christians (and some Christians/former Christians who really truly want to
>irritate their parents and so they "become" Satan worshippers for a while,
>but I certainly know of no second generation Satanists, nor even any
>longterm
>Satanists. It seems once the parents are gone or insufficiently irritated,
>it's not fun anymore. And there are *WAY* fewer Satanists [if any] than
>the
>"sky-is-falling" Christian right likes to claim are out there waiting to
>get
>you and your little cat too) . (Okay, I screwed up the punctuation and
>I
>don't want to fix it.)
>
>So when Christians express horror or fear of ANY non-Christian behavior or
>belief, they themselves are giving credence
>(acknowledgement/validity/power)
>to a power or deity which their own religion says can't and doesn't even
>exist. It is illogical, from the Christian's point of view, to give a
>rat's
>patoot about anyone else's prayers/curses/statues.
>
>Please tell me if I haven't made sense with this yet, because it's an
>important point for people to understand, and many who have grown up
>immersed
>in Christianity their whole lives are as surprised to hear that as they are
>to hear that Christianity is based on human sacrifice and cannibalism.
>
>Sandra
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Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com
DiamondAir
> From: Shelli Oliver <sdoliver@...>devil
> Sandra, I totally agree! Sometimes people spend too much time on the
> and nowhere else. Forget the devil and etc...that is ridiculous! ShelliMay I please respectfully ask that we on this list refrain from calling
anyone else's beliefs ridiculous. If there is something to be learned about
another person's religion, I'd like to see it. If we have articles or
information or resources to share about religions, that's great. But
opinions from someone of one religion about the beliefs of someone from
another religion crosses the boundaries of what I personally feel
comfortable with on an Unschooling list. That's just my opinion, and I don't
really happen to belong to any of the religions being discussed. It's just
that if I wanted religious debate, there are plenty of other lists I would
join. Thanks for listening.
And Shelli, I'm not trying to pick on your post specifically, there are
several in this thread that felt uncomfortable to me.
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I have magic in my mind"
and Asa (10/5/99) who doesn't want to take her fairy wings off...ever
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
[email protected]
I agree with Robin. I think respect for each others beliefs is the way to go.
Sometimes I have a hard time understanding how others can believe what they
do. Then I think how my beliefs and practices might look from the outside:>)
After all belief is of the inner realm. Perhaps we could focus on sharing in
a positive way how it is that our varied points of view have led us to the
similar place of unschooling our children. Let's keep the list focused on
unschooling. Sincerely, Amalia Darling
Sometimes I have a hard time understanding how others can believe what they
do. Then I think how my beliefs and practices might look from the outside:>)
After all belief is of the inner realm. Perhaps we could focus on sharing in
a positive way how it is that our varied points of view have led us to the
similar place of unschooling our children. Let's keep the list focused on
unschooling. Sincerely, Amalia Darling
Deirdre Malfatto
Sandra wrote:
"old" testament) does say that one is not allowed to believe in other
deities and some of the horrible things one is supposed to do to
people who believe in them, giving power to other deities does
have a basis in Judeo-Christian (possibly Muslim?) religious
thought.
I am coming from the perspective of having been an "ultra"
orthodox Jew for seven years up to a couple years ago who is now
a confident atheist who has very little to do with organized religion. I
cannot speak for Christianity, but I know, from the Jewish
perspective, what one is supposed to think of and do to people who
don't worship the Jewish God, and that information comes directly
from the "old" (old in parentheses because there is no "new" to
Jews) testament, which Jews share in common with Christians.
As I see it, the bible is full of contradictions, from the very beginning
(no pun intended). To be a religious Jew or Christian means
accepting and even learning from these contradictions.
once strongly-held beliefs, but I hope you do understand that what
you are saying cannot help but be seen as very offensive by those
who believe strongly in God and in the bible as God's written word
(which is what orthodox Jews believe as well as many religious
Christians).
What you are saying is perhaps a nicer way of viewing God and
religion, but it is not the God and religion of the bible.
Please forgive me if I am not so clear. I am suffering from the flu
and my children are doing their best to pull me off the computer...
Deirdre
> So when Christians express horror or fear of ANY non-ChristianWell, illogical may be one thing, but since the bible (at least in the
> behavior or belief, they themselves are giving credence
> (acknowledgement/validity/power) to a power or deity which their
> own religion says can't and doesn't even exist. It is illogical,
> from the Christian's point of view, to give a rat's patoot about
> anyone else's prayers/curses/statues.
"old" testament) does say that one is not allowed to believe in other
deities and some of the horrible things one is supposed to do to
people who believe in them, giving power to other deities does
have a basis in Judeo-Christian (possibly Muslim?) religious
thought.
I am coming from the perspective of having been an "ultra"
orthodox Jew for seven years up to a couple years ago who is now
a confident atheist who has very little to do with organized religion. I
cannot speak for Christianity, but I know, from the Jewish
perspective, what one is supposed to think of and do to people who
don't worship the Jewish God, and that information comes directly
from the "old" (old in parentheses because there is no "new" to
Jews) testament, which Jews share in common with Christians.
As I see it, the bible is full of contradictions, from the very beginning
(no pun intended). To be a religious Jew or Christian means
accepting and even learning from these contradictions.
> Please tell me if I haven't made sense with this yet, because it'sI am right there with you, as you might suppose since I rejected my
> an important point for people to understand, and many who have
> grown up immersed in Christianity their whole lives are as
> surprised to hear that as they are to hear that Christianity is
> based on human sacrifice and cannibalism.
once strongly-held beliefs, but I hope you do understand that what
you are saying cannot help but be seen as very offensive by those
who believe strongly in God and in the bible as God's written word
(which is what orthodox Jews believe as well as many religious
Christians).
What you are saying is perhaps a nicer way of viewing God and
religion, but it is not the God and religion of the bible.
Please forgive me if I am not so clear. I am suffering from the flu
and my children are doing their best to pull me off the computer...
Deirdre
[email protected]
In a message dated 00-11-07 14:06:07 EST, you write:
<< May I please respectfully ask that we on this list refrain from calling
anyone else's beliefs ridiculous. If there is something to be learned about
another person's religion, I'd like to see it. >>
What we learned in the original post (which I don't have and which had
another subject line) was a little boy was called a satan worshipper for
being pagan. Was he in school? Then perhaps our own proper/allowable
response was "Take him out and homeschool him to avoid this in the future."
Was he homeschooled? Then by discussing what might be said by him in his own
defense in the future, or discussing why the other children might have said
or believed he was a satan worshipper seems to me to be directly applicable
to the question which was asked.
If someone posted here that they were going to a Jewish wedding or funeral
(or Catholic, or Buddhist) and didn't know how to act, and if people on this
list made recommendations, would that be discussing religion?
Religion is a *HUGE* part of life, of homeschooling, of history, of politics,
of geography. I don't really understand how an unschooling family can tell a
religious discussion to shush as inapplicable to unschooling. Unschooling
itself--the term and the practice--has huge repercussions on the
homeschooling movement, and most of that is directly related to religion (or
lack thereof, or conflict with).
Sandra
<< May I please respectfully ask that we on this list refrain from calling
anyone else's beliefs ridiculous. If there is something to be learned about
another person's religion, I'd like to see it. >>
What we learned in the original post (which I don't have and which had
another subject line) was a little boy was called a satan worshipper for
being pagan. Was he in school? Then perhaps our own proper/allowable
response was "Take him out and homeschool him to avoid this in the future."
Was he homeschooled? Then by discussing what might be said by him in his own
defense in the future, or discussing why the other children might have said
or believed he was a satan worshipper seems to me to be directly applicable
to the question which was asked.
If someone posted here that they were going to a Jewish wedding or funeral
(or Catholic, or Buddhist) and didn't know how to act, and if people on this
list made recommendations, would that be discussing religion?
Religion is a *HUGE* part of life, of homeschooling, of history, of politics,
of geography. I don't really understand how an unschooling family can tell a
religious discussion to shush as inapplicable to unschooling. Unschooling
itself--the term and the practice--has huge repercussions on the
homeschooling movement, and most of that is directly related to religion (or
lack thereof, or conflict with).
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/7/00 2:46:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< Unschooling
itself--the term and the practice--has huge repercussions on the
homeschooling movement, and most of that is directly related to religion (or
lack thereof, or conflict with). >>
How so?
candice
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< Unschooling
itself--the term and the practice--has huge repercussions on the
homeschooling movement, and most of that is directly related to religion (or
lack thereof, or conflict with). >>
How so?
candice
[email protected]
In a message dated 00-11-07 19:37:08 EST, you write:
<< << Unschooling
itself--the term and the practice--has huge repercussions on the
homeschooling movement, and most of that is directly related to religion
(or
lack thereof, or conflict with). >>
How so? >>
There are Christian homeschoolers who will not use the term "unschool" (not
that it's a great term, but it's a term in use) because other Christians
consider it immoral and anti-Christian not to have children "do their work"
in obedience to the parents, or not to have children following a Christian
curriculum. There are even Christian dictionaries and piano courses. To
allow or encourage children to freely and openly inquire and investigate
things goes against some people's Christian belief and practice.
HSLDA first would allow but wouldn't defend (in a legal situation)
unschooling families. Now, if I understand correctly, they won't even let
them join (which doesn't hurt the families).
There are many homeschooling support groups which won't allow unschoolers to
join (nor even structured homeschoolers who won't sign a statement of faith).
Within and among the Christian, structured homeschoolers there are beliefs
and traditions fostered that it was Christian homeschoolers who made
homeschooling possible and that unschoolers threaten the rights of people
everywhere to homeschool. It's not at all true, but it is widely stated,
believed and repeated.
I'm not particularly involved in or interested in the politics and legalities
of homeschooling. I much prefer the practice: the cognitive growth and
mental health benefits of unschooling. Even there, though, religious issues
come up.
Sandra Dodd
<< << Unschooling
itself--the term and the practice--has huge repercussions on the
homeschooling movement, and most of that is directly related to religion
(or
lack thereof, or conflict with). >>
How so? >>
There are Christian homeschoolers who will not use the term "unschool" (not
that it's a great term, but it's a term in use) because other Christians
consider it immoral and anti-Christian not to have children "do their work"
in obedience to the parents, or not to have children following a Christian
curriculum. There are even Christian dictionaries and piano courses. To
allow or encourage children to freely and openly inquire and investigate
things goes against some people's Christian belief and practice.
HSLDA first would allow but wouldn't defend (in a legal situation)
unschooling families. Now, if I understand correctly, they won't even let
them join (which doesn't hurt the families).
There are many homeschooling support groups which won't allow unschoolers to
join (nor even structured homeschoolers who won't sign a statement of faith).
Within and among the Christian, structured homeschoolers there are beliefs
and traditions fostered that it was Christian homeschoolers who made
homeschooling possible and that unschoolers threaten the rights of people
everywhere to homeschool. It's not at all true, but it is widely stated,
believed and repeated.
I'm not particularly involved in or interested in the politics and legalities
of homeschooling. I much prefer the practice: the cognitive growth and
mental health benefits of unschooling. Even there, though, religious issues
come up.
Sandra Dodd
Valerie
I told myself I was not going to join in on this discussion as everyone
always gets upset and angry when religion is the subject. Changed my mind :)
peace and grace
Candy
Candy, I wanted to say I enjoyed your post....
Also, there has been a great series of articles about The History Of
Homeschooling in Gentle Spirit Magazine, including of course, religious
issues. I like both Gentle Spirit and Home Education Magazine.....GS has
very long, in-depth articles. The history of homeschooling has taken the
last 5 issues, I think.
http://www.gentlespirit.com
So, Candy and everyone who may be interested, check out the archives.
--Valerie
always gets upset and angry when religion is the subject. Changed my mind :)
peace and grace
Candy
Candy, I wanted to say I enjoyed your post....
Also, there has been a great series of articles about The History Of
Homeschooling in Gentle Spirit Magazine, including of course, religious
issues. I like both Gentle Spirit and Home Education Magazine.....GS has
very long, in-depth articles. The history of homeschooling has taken the
last 5 issues, I think.
http://www.gentlespirit.com
So, Candy and everyone who may be interested, check out the archives.
--Valerie
DiamondAir
> From: SandraDodd@...about
> << May I please respectfully ask that we on this list refrain from calling
> anyone else's beliefs ridiculous. If there is something to be learned
> another person's religion, I'd like to see it. >>this
> If someone posted here that they were going to a Jewish wedding or funeral
> (or Catholic, or Buddhist) and didn't know how to act, and if people on
> list made recommendations, would that be discussing religion?politics,
>
> Religion is a *HUGE* part of life, of homeschooling, of history, of
> of geography. I don't really understand how an unschooling family cantell a
> religious discussion to shush as inapplicable to unschooling.I did not ask that religious discussion "shush", I asked that we refrain
from calling one another's religious beliefs "ridiculous" (see my original
quote, above). If we cannot discuss religion without denigrating each
other's choices, then perhaps the discussion shouldn't happen. If we can
discuss it in such a way that other's beliefs are respected, I have no
problem with it.
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I have magic in my mind"
and Asa (10/5/99) who doesn't want to take her fairy wings off...ever
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/7/00 9:34:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< I'm not particularly involved in or interested in the politics and
legalities
of homeschooling. I much prefer the practice: the cognitive growth and
mental health benefits of unschooling. Even there, though, religious issues
come up. >>
I agree. The politics tend to bore me because they are so removed from my
reality. I am fortunate to interact with a lot of Christian unschoolers. I
have been on two Christian unschooling groups and as an educational
philosophy it seems to be growing among Christians, though it will not likely
catch up with the other approach any time soon. I have met people who are
very conservative in other aspects of their lives who have embraced
unschooling and are forming inclusive support groups. (I know you weren't
painting us all with the same brush, just want to say there is hope.)
candice
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hold fast to dreams
For if dreams die
Life is a broken-winged bird
That cannot fly.
-Langston Hughes
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< I'm not particularly involved in or interested in the politics and
legalities
of homeschooling. I much prefer the practice: the cognitive growth and
mental health benefits of unschooling. Even there, though, religious issues
come up. >>
I agree. The politics tend to bore me because they are so removed from my
reality. I am fortunate to interact with a lot of Christian unschoolers. I
have been on two Christian unschooling groups and as an educational
philosophy it seems to be growing among Christians, though it will not likely
catch up with the other approach any time soon. I have met people who are
very conservative in other aspects of their lives who have embraced
unschooling and are forming inclusive support groups. (I know you weren't
painting us all with the same brush, just want to say there is hope.)
candice
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hold fast to dreams
For if dreams die
Life is a broken-winged bird
That cannot fly.
-Langston Hughes
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/7/00 9:33:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< There are Christian homeschoolers who will not use the term "unschool"
(not
that it's a great term, but it's a term in use) because other Christians
consider it immoral and anti-Christian not to have children "do their work"
in obedience to the parents, or not to have children following a Christian
curriculum. >>
This has been my experience. I get looks a patient amusement when other
Christians learn I don't spank. When they figure out I really DO unschool and
am not just a "relaxed home schooler" they begin to get nervous. When they
realize that I'm trying to be less coercive they go balistic.
This would be fine if their reaction was limited to what they say to me but
it transfers to the kids as well. They seem to lie in wait for my kids to do
something that they can stick in my face as an indictment against my
parenting. I guess they need to completely invalidate my choices in order to
be comfortable with their own. Our experience with Christian support groups
has been horrible. We choose now to associate with those who share most of
our convictions about parenting or those who are self-confident enough to not
judge.
Kris
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< There are Christian homeschoolers who will not use the term "unschool"
(not
that it's a great term, but it's a term in use) because other Christians
consider it immoral and anti-Christian not to have children "do their work"
in obedience to the parents, or not to have children following a Christian
curriculum. >>
This has been my experience. I get looks a patient amusement when other
Christians learn I don't spank. When they figure out I really DO unschool and
am not just a "relaxed home schooler" they begin to get nervous. When they
realize that I'm trying to be less coercive they go balistic.
This would be fine if their reaction was limited to what they say to me but
it transfers to the kids as well. They seem to lie in wait for my kids to do
something that they can stick in my face as an indictment against my
parenting. I guess they need to completely invalidate my choices in order to
be comfortable with their own. Our experience with Christian support groups
has been horrible. We choose now to associate with those who share most of
our convictions about parenting or those who are self-confident enough to not
judge.
Kris