re: scouts
Valerie
This is something I've never understood....How did this ever become an
issue? Granted I was never a boy scout so I don't know, but I have a hard
time envisioning this. Is there a badge for having sex with a girl for the
first time? Is that in the handbook? Or is it simply because it is a
Christian organization, therefore any rule in the Bible must be followed by
everyone? If that is the case, why pick on homosexuality? You'll notice it's
not in the 10 Commandments. There's barely a mention of it at all (I can
only think of 3 times). Most important to me, Jesus Christ himself never
said a word about it. He spoke of love, compassion and The Golden Rule. Why
has this "sin" become more important than things like resting on the Sabbath
(which _is_ in the 10 Commandments)? If they are going to be so nosy about
what their members and leaders do you'd think they'd care if someone had an
affair, or coveted their neighbor's car, or ever lied.
---Valerie, who doesn't mind being flamed
issue? Granted I was never a boy scout so I don't know, but I have a hard
time envisioning this. Is there a badge for having sex with a girl for the
first time? Is that in the handbook? Or is it simply because it is a
Christian organization, therefore any rule in the Bible must be followed by
everyone? If that is the case, why pick on homosexuality? You'll notice it's
not in the 10 Commandments. There's barely a mention of it at all (I can
only think of 3 times). Most important to me, Jesus Christ himself never
said a word about it. He spoke of love, compassion and The Golden Rule. Why
has this "sin" become more important than things like resting on the Sabbath
(which _is_ in the 10 Commandments)? If they are going to be so nosy about
what their members and leaders do you'd think they'd care if someone had an
affair, or coveted their neighbor's car, or ever lied.
---Valerie, who doesn't mind being flamed
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall
>This is something I've never understood....How did this ever become an issue? ........ Is there a badge for having sex with a girl for theValerie, you crack me up. LOL I agree totally. What business is it of theirs? Those other things you mentioned will probably be next on their list. It's big brother telling you that in order to be a part of this kids organization you have to tell what your sexual habits are and what you eat and where you live, and, and....on and on
>first time? Is that in the handbook?
>............If they are going to be so nosy about what their members >and leaders do you'd think they'd care if someone had an affair, or >coveted their neighbor's car, or ever lied.
>---Valerie
They have every right to include or exclude whomever they please as a private organization. The main outrage has been based on the fact that many people were in the scouts, involved with the scouts or supporting the scouts (like corporations, on a large scale) who are now either among the excluded group or friends/family/supporters of the excluded group. Put yourself (generic you, not anyone in particilar) in that situation, and how would you feel? What would you think about the organization in which you invested so much time, funds and interest?
Nanci K.
------------------------------------------------------------
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Janette
I like your point too Valerie, Nanci, and all others who responded in like.
I, for one, as a heterosexual women, will NEVER again support (i.e. time,
funds, or interest) the Boy Scout organization because of their hatred
to the gay community. They may chose who they want in their organzation
but I think they will be surprised at just how many people they have lost.
Janette
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall wrote:
I, for one, as a heterosexual women, will NEVER again support (i.e. time,
funds, or interest) the Boy Scout organization because of their hatred
to the gay community. They may chose who they want in their organzation
but I think they will be surprised at just how many people they have lost.
Janette
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall wrote:
> >This is something I've never understood....How did this ever become an issue? ........ Is there a badge for having sex with a girl for the
> >first time? Is that in the handbook?
> >............If they are going to be so nosy about what their members >and leaders do you'd think they'd care if someone had an affair, or >coveted their neighbor's car, or ever lied.
> >---Valerie
>
> Valerie, you crack me up. LOL I agree totally. What business is it of theirs? Those other things you mentioned will probably be next on their list. It's big brother telling you that in order to be a part of this kids organization you have to tell what your sexual habits are and what you eat and where you live, and, and....on and on
>
> They have every right to include or exclude whomever they please as a private organization. The main outrage has been based on the fact that many people were in the scouts, involved with the scouts or supporting the scouts (like corporations, on a large scale) who are now either among the excluded group or friends/family/supporters of the excluded group. Put yourself (generic you, not anyone in particilar) in that situation, and how would you feel? What would you think about the organization in which you invested so much time, funds and interest?
>
> Nanci K.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Show off your pagan (and Idaho) pride, get Idaho Pagan Mail(tm) today!
> Sign up at http://www.idahopagan.com/
>
>
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Lynda
They aren't a Christian organization but they do put forth "Christian
values." They also have Buddhist chapters and others that aren't
christian.
This all came about because a leader decided to not play by the "don't ask
don't tell rules." Some of the parents didn't want him as a leader for
their boys. He sued. They don't screen for this, they never made a big
deal over it but they refused to buckle under to this guy's demands. There
are gay leaders now, there are gay members now but they don't flaunt it.
I personally don't care one iota what the leaders are. I do, however, feel
the organization has a right to set their own rules.
Maybe my position would be clearer if I explained that my cousin is gay, he
is a troop leader and he has never had a problem with either their policy
or the kids/parents in his troop. He doesn't flaunt his sexual preferences
and he thinks it is silly to make a production out of one's sexual
preferences. One of his comments comes to mind each time I hear about
these different things, "I don't understand why everyone in the community
has to make a production. I never see heterosexual day parades or people
standing up in a room proclaiming they are heterosexual. Sex belongs in
the bedroom, period!"
Lynda
----------
values." They also have Buddhist chapters and others that aren't
christian.
This all came about because a leader decided to not play by the "don't ask
don't tell rules." Some of the parents didn't want him as a leader for
their boys. He sued. They don't screen for this, they never made a big
deal over it but they refused to buckle under to this guy's demands. There
are gay leaders now, there are gay members now but they don't flaunt it.
I personally don't care one iota what the leaders are. I do, however, feel
the organization has a right to set their own rules.
Maybe my position would be clearer if I explained that my cousin is gay, he
is a troop leader and he has never had a problem with either their policy
or the kids/parents in his troop. He doesn't flaunt his sexual preferences
and he thinks it is silly to make a production out of one's sexual
preferences. One of his comments comes to mind each time I hear about
these different things, "I don't understand why everyone in the community
has to make a production. I never see heterosexual day parades or people
standing up in a room proclaiming they are heterosexual. Sex belongs in
the bedroom, period!"
Lynda
----------
> From: Valerie <valeries@...>the
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] re: scouts
> Date: Thursday, September 28, 2000 1:58 PM
>
> This is something I've never understood....How did this ever become an
> issue? Granted I was never a boy scout so I don't know, but I have a hard
> time envisioning this. Is there a badge for having sex with a girl for
> first time? Is that in the handbook? Or is it simply because it is aby
> Christian organization, therefore any rule in the Bible must be followed
> everyone? If that is the case, why pick on homosexuality? You'll noticeit's
> not in the 10 Commandments. There's barely a mention of it at all (I canWhy
> only think of 3 times). Most important to me, Jesus Christ himself never
> said a word about it. He spoke of love, compassion and The Golden Rule.
> has this "sin" become more important than things like resting on theSabbath
> (which _is_ in the 10 Commandments)? If they are going to be so nosyabout
> what their members and leaders do you'd think they'd care if someone hadan
> affair, or coveted their neighbor's car, or ever lied.
>
> ---Valerie, who doesn't mind being flamed
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 00-09-28 20:45:13 EDT, lurine@... writes:
<< I never see heterosexual day parades or people
standing up in a room proclaiming they are heterosexual. >>
What about weddings? Holding hands in public? Couples dancing at weddings
and company parties and New Year's Eve?
<<That's not correct. They said they wouldn't allow openly homosexual men in
a leadership position if the parents objected. They did not, contrary to
biased news articles, go on a witch hunt to remove leaders and members.>>
Good. Not the best of all possible worlds, but better than I've been hearing
for which I'm really relieved. Thanks for the clarification.
Sorry to post so much all at once. I'll try to hush now.
Sandra
<< I never see heterosexual day parades or people
standing up in a room proclaiming they are heterosexual. >>
What about weddings? Holding hands in public? Couples dancing at weddings
and company parties and New Year's Eve?
<<That's not correct. They said they wouldn't allow openly homosexual men in
a leadership position if the parents objected. They did not, contrary to
biased news articles, go on a witch hunt to remove leaders and members.>>
Good. Not the best of all possible worlds, but better than I've been hearing
for which I'm really relieved. Thanks for the clarification.
Sorry to post so much all at once. I'll try to hush now.
Sandra
aworthen
----- Original Message -----
From: Lynda <lurine@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] re: scouts
. There
> are gay leaders now, there are gay members now but they don't flaunt it.
And, if any of them were ever found out to be gay (including your cousin)
they would all be promptly removed from the organization.
Amy
Mom to Samantha, Dana, and Casey
The World Is Our Classroom
Lynda
The quote is my cousin's opinion. He is rather, hmmm, how to say this in a
slightly pc manner, ah, different <g> and probably one of the funniest
people I know, particularly when he really isn't trying to be. He is gay
but doesn't believe that to be "out of the closet" one has to go to the
extreme and become a hollywood stereotype and, as he puts it, "swish." He
likes to keep his sex life private and said he wishes everyone else would
also. And that includes one of his favorite gripes, heterosexuals kids
who "just about do the dirty" in the middle of the mall as he phrases it
<g> Hey, I'm in full agreement with that one!
Lynda
----------
slightly pc manner, ah, different <g> and probably one of the funniest
people I know, particularly when he really isn't trying to be. He is gay
but doesn't believe that to be "out of the closet" one has to go to the
extreme and become a hollywood stereotype and, as he puts it, "swish." He
likes to keep his sex life private and said he wishes everyone else would
also. And that includes one of his favorite gripes, heterosexuals kids
who "just about do the dirty" in the middle of the mall as he phrases it
<g> Hey, I'm in full agreement with that one!
Lynda
----------
> From: SandraDodd@...weddings
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] re: scouts
> Date: Thursday, September 28, 2000 6:13 PM
>
> In a message dated 00-09-28 20:45:13 EDT, lurine@... writes:
>
> << I never see heterosexual day parades or people
> standing up in a room proclaiming they are heterosexual. >>
>
> What about weddings? Holding hands in public? Couples dancing at
> and company parties and New Year's Eve?men in
>
> <<That's not correct. They said they wouldn't allow openly homosexual
> a leadership position if the parents objected. They did not, contrary tohearing
> biased news articles, go on a witch hunt to remove leaders and members.>>
>
> Good. Not the best of all possible worlds, but better than I've been
> for which I'm really relieved. Thanks for the clarification.
>
> Sorry to post so much all at once. I'll try to hush now.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
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>
Lynda
Amy, I don't know where you get your information, but it simply is not
correct! Danny has been openly gay for about 30 years now and everyone in
town knows he is gay. However, unlike the person who started this whole
bruhaha, he doesn't, as he puts it "swish" or "counsel" kids about how they
might have leanings toward the gay lifestyle. He doesn't spend time at his
troop meetings telling them about his lifestyle, which is something else
this other person did. He goes about his business in a professional
manner. All the parents are aware of his life style and were given the
option of having their sons in another troop. None in 15 years have made
that choose!
Further, contrary to what some seem to want to believe, other folks with
questionable standards and morals have been removed from "scoutdom." One
in Colorado was caught with another man's wife in a "swingers" club and he
was bounced. Another turned out to have a questionable record (child abuse
and possible molesting) and he was removed. I know of several other cases
and they ended with the same decision, out the door!
Lynda
----------
correct! Danny has been openly gay for about 30 years now and everyone in
town knows he is gay. However, unlike the person who started this whole
bruhaha, he doesn't, as he puts it "swish" or "counsel" kids about how they
might have leanings toward the gay lifestyle. He doesn't spend time at his
troop meetings telling them about his lifestyle, which is something else
this other person did. He goes about his business in a professional
manner. All the parents are aware of his life style and were given the
option of having their sons in another troop. None in 15 years have made
that choose!
Further, contrary to what some seem to want to believe, other folks with
questionable standards and morals have been removed from "scoutdom." One
in Colorado was caught with another man's wife in a "swingers" club and he
was bounced. Another turned out to have a questionable record (child abuse
and possible molesting) and he was removed. I know of several other cases
and they ended with the same decision, out the door!
Lynda
----------
> From: aworthen <aworthen@...>it.
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] re: scouts
> Date: Thursday, September 28, 2000 6:28 PM
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lynda <lurine@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 8:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] re: scouts
>
> . There
> > are gay leaders now, there are gay members now but they don't flaunt
>
> And, if any of them were ever found out to be gay (including your cousin)
> they would all be promptly removed from the organization.
>
> Amy
> Mom to Samantha, Dana, and Casey
> The World Is Our Classroom
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/28/2000 1:59:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
valeries@... writes:
code of 'morally straight'. Now, I'll grant that coveting your neighbor's
car is a little hard to prove and there are different levels of lie-ing (sp)
which the community at large would never know about. But then a Scout's word
is supposed to mean something. Being a Boy Scout is supposed to carry with
it the honor and integrity of a level that is high enough that he wouldn't
lie about such things and would do all in his power to shun them from his
life.
Steal a car or embezzle from your employer and you are also likely to be
stripped of your Scout status.
Eiraul
valeries@... writes:
> If they are going to be so nosy aboutThey do care and these would be excellent examples of actions outside the
> what their members and leaders do you'd think they'd care if someone had an
> affair, or coveted their neighbor's car, or ever lied.
>
code of 'morally straight'. Now, I'll grant that coveting your neighbor's
car is a little hard to prove and there are different levels of lie-ing (sp)
which the community at large would never know about. But then a Scout's word
is supposed to mean something. Being a Boy Scout is supposed to carry with
it the honor and integrity of a level that is high enough that he wouldn't
lie about such things and would do all in his power to shun them from his
life.
Steal a car or embezzle from your employer and you are also likely to be
stripped of your Scout status.
Eiraul
Bonnie Painter
I would like to know who decided what "morally-straight" means. Because a
man chooses to have a relationship and he happens to be gay, he is no longer
"morally straight"? In whose book, certainly not mine.
Bonnie
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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http://profiles.msn.com
man chooses to have a relationship and he happens to be gay, he is no longer
"morally straight"? In whose book, certainly not mine.
Bonnie
>From: braunville@..._________________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] re: scouts
>Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:52:59 EDT
>
>In a message dated 9/28/2000 1:59:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>valeries@... writes:
>
> > If they are going to be so nosy about
> > what their members and leaders do you'd think they'd care if someone
>had an
> > affair, or coveted their neighbor's car, or ever lied.
> >
>
>They do care and these would be excellent examples of actions outside the
>code of 'morally straight'. Now, I'll grant that coveting your neighbor's
>car is a little hard to prove and there are different levels of lie-ing
>(sp)
>which the community at large would never know about. But then a Scout's
>word
>is supposed to mean something. Being a Boy Scout is supposed to carry with
>it the honor and integrity of a level that is high enough that he wouldn't
>lie about such things and would do all in his power to shun them from his
>life.
>
>Steal a car or embezzle from your employer and you are also likely to be
>stripped of your Scout status.
>
>Eiraul
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Lynda
This happens frequently but doesn't get the press because it isn't a big pc
issue at the moment. Leaders and scouts have been stripped of all the
honors they have ever acquired for those types of actions--every merit
badge, everything. These don't get the press and when I asked some folks
at a major newspaper, "why not," I was told, "it wouldn't make a splash."
Lynda
----------
issue at the moment. Leaders and scouts have been stripped of all the
honors they have ever acquired for those types of actions--every merit
badge, everything. These don't get the press and when I asked some folks
at a major newspaper, "why not," I was told, "it wouldn't make a splash."
Lynda
----------
> From: braunville@...had an
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] re: scouts
> Date: Thursday, September 28, 2000 10:52 PM
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2000 1:59:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> valeries@... writes:
>
> > If they are going to be so nosy about
> > what their members and leaders do you'd think they'd care if someone
> > affair, or coveted their neighbor's car, or ever lied.neighbor's
> >
>
> They do care and these would be excellent examples of actions outside the
> code of 'morally straight'. Now, I'll grant that coveting your
> car is a little hard to prove and there are different levels of lie-ing(sp)
> which the community at large would never know about. But then a Scout'sword
> is supposed to mean something. Being a Boy Scout is supposed to carrywith
> it the honor and integrity of a level that is high enough that hewouldn't
> lie about such things and would do all in his power to shun them from his
> life.
>
> Steal a car or embezzle from your employer and you are also likely to be
> stripped of your Scout status.
>
> Eiraul
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
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> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
Alan & Brenda Leonard
on 9/3/02 15:02, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:
Germany. No campfire, no 4H. I live in the middle of nowhere as far as
army bases are concerned. <sigh> Personally, I think my son would enjoy
the girl scouts a lot -- one of my friends is running it and they have a lot
of cool things going on. But I don't think that idea is going to work.....
;)
brenda
[email protected] wrote:
> Camp Fire! Camp Fire! Camp Fire! Camp Fire! all together now! Camp Fire!Sound great. But the army only does boy scouts and girl scouts here in
Germany. No campfire, no 4H. I live in the middle of nowhere as far as
army bases are concerned. <sigh> Personally, I think my son would enjoy
the girl scouts a lot -- one of my friends is running it and they have a lot
of cool things going on. But I don't think that idea is going to work.....
;)
brenda
KT
>My MIL was an Air Force wife, and she was always starting all kinds of
>
>Camp Fire! Camp Fire! Camp Fire! Camp Fire! all together now! Camp Fire!
>
>
>Sound great. But the army only does boy scouts and girl scouts here in
>Germany. No campfire, no 4H.
>
programs (baseball leagues, TOPS, on and on). I don't see why the Army
would keep you from doing such a thing as Camp Fire or 4-H. I realize
you might have to get some sort of approval, but do you think they'd
really turn you down?
Tuck
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/3/02 4:19:24 PM, Tuck@... writes:
<< I don't see why the Army
would keep you from doing such a thing as Camp Fire or 4-H. >>
4-H is a function of county extension agencies.
Sandra
<< I don't see why the Army
would keep you from doing such a thing as Camp Fire or 4-H. >>
4-H is a function of county extension agencies.
Sandra
[email protected]
Today in my Local email list inbox I found an invitation to.......
A camp fire kids info night! less than 3 miles from my house! Tomorrow!
Emily and I are heading out there!!
Connections......
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
A camp fire kids info night! less than 3 miles from my house! Tomorrow!
Emily and I are heading out there!!
Connections......
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
KT
>Very cool. Hope you like it.
>
>A camp fire kids info night! less than 3 miles from my house! Tomorrow!
>Emily and I are heading out there!!
>
Tuck
N.McV.
The Army-Youth Development Project. They are working with 4-H on a number of projects, including setting up 4-H clubs for Army dependents.
"USDA's Extension/4-H youth development and technology specialists provide training and technical assistance to Army Child & Youth Services (CYS) staff on a number of programming initiatives, including:
Establishing 4-H Clubs on Army Installations
4-H Clubs provide a "slice of home" for Army youth wherever they live. Photography, technology, fine arts, and citizenship projects are available at every Army 4-H Club, providing consistency for youth who must move frequently. "
http://www.usda-army-ydp.org/
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"USDA's Extension/4-H youth development and technology specialists provide training and technical assistance to Army Child & Youth Services (CYS) staff on a number of programming initiatives, including:
Establishing 4-H Clubs on Army Installations
4-H Clubs provide a "slice of home" for Army youth wherever they live. Photography, technology, fine arts, and citizenship projects are available at every Army 4-H Club, providing consistency for youth who must move frequently. "
http://www.usda-army-ydp.org/
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alan & Brenda Leonard
> Establishing 4-H Clubs on Army InstallationsThanks a LOT for this info. I did call around a bit and found out while
> 4-H Clubs provide a "slice of home" for Army youth wherever they live.
> Photography, technology, fine arts, and citizenship projects are available at
> every Army 4-H Club, providing consistency for youth who must move frequently.
> "
supposedly there is going to be a 4-H club here, nobody seems to know who's
running it or any other details, like who I'd call for information. So I
need to poke around more. But I really appreciate knowing it's out there,
somewhere.
I did, in the end, register my son for scouts. And yea, I got roped into
co-leading the den. But I get a little more input into how it looks that
way, too. We'll see how it goes. I still have my doubts and concerns, but
I've had to invest $4 at this point, so it seems worth a try.
brenda