Bill Ellis

> From: "LisaKK" <LisaBugg@...>
> Subject: Re: hs co-ops
>
> What does legally organized mean?
>
> I know of a whole bunch of folks getting together to do all kinds of things.
> I have a friend offering lessons in Spanish to hsing families in my
> community. I haven't a clue how she would *organize legally*?
BE:
Lisa by legal organzation I'm refering the "co-operatives" as opposed to
"corporations" and more permanent than most "homeschool support groups."

Cooperatives have been around since the organization of Rochdale
Cooperatives in England in the mid 1800's. The best known use in the USA
has been the food co-ops of the 1960. Before that were the producer co-ops
of the 1920s.

What I've been trying to explore is the use of legal cooperatives to extend
the life of "homeschool support groups." And to give them more clout. In
the "New Chapters" section of the online book on
<http://www.CreatingLearningCommunities.org" there is a good chapter by
Laddie Lushin, a co-op lawyer, who gives some pointers on if, why, and how
to organize a "learning co-op." Lushin has been working with local food
co-op for 25 years and is considering giving his prim attention to helping
self-learners establish learning co-ops.

There are a number of listservs on co-operatives both here and in England as
well as a number of publications for co-ops. To date I've found only a fes
examples of homeschoolers or other collaborative learners taking advantage
of the co-op movement.
Bill Ellis

LisaKK

>> community. I haven't a clue how she would *organize legally*?
>BE:
>Lisa by legal organzation I'm refering the "co-operatives" as opposed to
>"corporations" and more permanent than most "homeschool support groups."
>
>
>What I've been trying to explore is the use of legal cooperatives to extend
>the life of "homeschool support groups." And to give them more clout. In

Give them more clout to do what? What do you see these coops doing?

Lisa

Bill Ellis

Lisa, most of your questions have been answered in "Creating Learning
Communities" by people more expert in the co-operative movement than I.
But, by creating permanent cooperative of homeschoolers and other
autodidacts there will be organizations to purchase equipment, rent meeting
rooms, and pass on the the next generation of homeschoolers the facilities
and services they need or want.

We have a cooperatgive preschool learning center in my hometown on which my
wife is a board member. The parents own their own building, playground,
books, computers and equipment.

They hire a program coordinator and each parent puts in a number of hours a
week working in the learning center. Parents of participating learners
elect the board with one or two outside the current active participants. A
similar learning center for homescoolers is being considered. So far the
group has a telescope, microsopes, and computers that will stay with the
learning co-op for the next bunch of unchoolers that come along.

Beyond the day to day operation Learning Co-ops can have more clout with
banks, businesses, donors, and government than can a single homeschooler or
even an ad hoc homeschool support group.

Bill

----------

> From: "LisaKK" <LisaBugg@...>
>> BE:
>>What we've been trying to explore is the use of legal cooperatives to extend
>>the life of "homeschool support groups." And to give them more clout.
>
> Give them more clout to do what? What do you see these coops doing?
>
> Lisa

LisaKK

>
>We have a cooperatgive preschool learning center in my hometown on which my
>wife is a board member. The parents own their own building, playground,
>books, computers and equipment.
>
>They hire a program coordinator and each parent puts in a number of hours a
>week working in the learning center.

Bill, the thing is, most of us do not WANT to do these types of things.
They take time and energy to run and to maintain. It's why my question to
you was on the concept of being *LEAGL*.

Parents of participating learners
>elect the board with one or two outside the current active participants. A
>similar learning center for homescoolers is being considered. So far the
>group has a telescope, microsopes, and computers that will stay with the
>learning co-op for the next bunch of unchoolers that come along.>>

I think these are great and will be working in my community to bring
something like this about

<<>Beyond the day to day operation Learning Co-ops can have more clout with
>banks, businesses, donors, and government than can a single homeschooler or
>even an ad hoc homeschool support group.>>

But why would we need clout *as a learning cooperative*? What are we going
to use this clout for?

Lisa

Cathie _

> >even an ad hoc homeschool support group.>>
>
>But why would we need clout *as a learning cooperative*? What are we going
>to use this clout for?
>
>Lisa
>


Lisa, I am guessing that your kids are still young. Its really easy to find
fun, interesting things to do without a lot of money or planning. You can
throw together great learning activities for young children. When they get a
little older, the co-op can do so much more that is difficult to do without
more structure.

We have had some wonderful classes that involve speakers and field experts
that would be difficult to schedule. We have access to materials that are
available to schools, but not always to homeschoolers just because they will
reach more children. We have gotten grants to pay for some classes and
materials. We have a permanant meeting place so long term commitments can be
made. One of my latest thoughts is to try to get appoval to start drivers ed
classes at the center-in Ohio the kids have to attend a course through
school or a private driving school, so why not have a school program at the
center so we don't all have to pay $300 to the local driving school.

I think it is alot easier for new homeschoolers to find the support they
need when you have a co-op like this too. They can jump right in to a
thriving community of homeschoolers instead of winging it on their own.


The Center that we use is quite far from us, so we often do not get to
participate in many of the activities that interest us. I wish we could have
them in every community so that more of the wonderful opportunities were
available to every one who want to learn for life. Not just the hsers or
even just the kids.

Cathie
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LisaKK

>
>
>Lisa, I am guessing that your kids are still young. Its really easy to find
>fun, interesting things to do without a lot of money or planning.

Well, I do have 6, 8, and 10 year olds at home, but my oldest is 18 and
homeschooled every year but 3rd grade.

, the co-op can do so much more that is difficult to do without
>more structure.

I'm not talking about being able to meet the *learning* needs of the kids
here. I'm asking for what purpose would some sort of legal sanction be
necessary. And my teen did have access to some great resources and we
lacked a few at times. It wasn't the structure we needed, it was just other
interested parties. Teens begin to have very specific needs and interests.
We didn't mesh with a whole lot of the other homeschoolers around here.

>
>We have had some wonderful classes that involve speakers and field experts
>that would be difficult to schedule. We have access to materials that are
>available to schools, but not always to homeschoolers just because they
will
>reach more children. We have gotten grants to pay for some classes and
>materials. We have a permanant meeting place so long term commitments can
be
>made. One of my latest thoughts is to try to get appoval to start drivers
ed
>classes at the center-in Ohio the kids have to attend a course through
>school or a private driving school, so why not have a school program at the
>center so we don't all have to pay $300 to the local driving school.

But did this take *clout* or just hard work by the group? We're working on
some sort of permanent meeting place in my community, as that is our most
pressing need. But we don't need clout, we just need money. <G>

>I think it is alot easier for new homeschoolers to find the support they
>need when you have a co-op like this too. They can jump right in to a
>thriving community of homeschoolers instead of winging it on their own.

And I sometimes think they substitute this for school and never spend the
downtime that is necessary during that first year. I think some families end
up delaying the deschooling process until they are burned out on
homeschooling activities. Winging it a bit forces self-reliance... and
well...that's a pretty important step in the homeschooling journey.
>
>The Center that we use is quite far from us, so we often do not get to
>participate in many of the activities that interest us. I wish we could
have
>them in every community so that more of the wonderful opportunities were
>available to every one who want to learn for life. Not just the hsers or
>even just the kids.

I agree. And I think we're moving that way, even though it's very slow. I
just do not want the idea that homeschoolers *need* to do these things to be
legitimate to become prevelant. I value my freedom too much to lose it to
the idea of needing a *legalized learning center* to make it work well.

LisaKK
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Lisa--

I get the idea that the "clout" they're talking about has to do with getting
real estate loans and that type of deal--stuff nobody's going to do for a
bunch of parents, but they will work with a legal entity on.

Could be more than that, but sounded like that was part of it.

:-) Diane

[email protected]

In a message dated 09/17/2000 4:50:39 AM !!!First Boot!!!, cen46624@...
writes:

<<
I get the idea that the "clout" they're talking about has to do with getting
real estate loans and that type of deal--stuff nobody's going to do for a
bunch of parents, but they will work with a legal entity on.

Could be more than that, but sounded like that was part of it.

:-) Diane >>


The beauty of hsing -- some parents might want to pursue this more formal
route and others want to wing it!!

Nance

Penne & Buddies

--- In [email protected], Message 13200 [Yes, I
did my homework! :o]

Date: Sun Sep 17, 2000 6:06 am
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Learning Co-ops

"Cathie _" <cathie_98@h...> wrote:
<snip> Its really easy to find
> fun, interesting things to do without a lot of money or planning.
You can
> throw together great learning activities for young children. When
they get a
> little older, the co-op can do so much more that is difficult to
do without
> more structure.
>
> We have had some wonderful classes that involve speakers and field
experts
> that would be difficult to schedule. We have access to materials
that are
> available to schools, but not always to homeschoolers just because
they will
> reach more children. We have gotten grants to pay for some classes
and
> materials. We have a permanant meeting place so long term
commitments can be
> made. One of my latest thoughts is to try to get appoval to start
drivers ed
> classes at the center-in Ohio the kids have to attend a course
through
> school or a private driving school, so why not have a school
program at the
> center so we don't all have to pay $300 to the local driving
school.

We paid over $200 for an insurance-sponsored, profit-driven "driving
school" in Louisiana -- typical, conventional week's worth of wasted
time. They insisted that our son should be able to drive on the
road after six hours of instruction to some arbitrary standard (with
no other "official" road hours under his belt) -before- issuing a
learner's permit (you know, the one you get so you can learn how to
drive on the road?) and when he "failed" to meet their so-called
standard, they had the legal right (as a for-profit company offering
a state-mandated service) to require us to fork over ex-tra bucks
for ex-tra hours from their ex-pert driving instructor. What a scam!

Next time around -- No driver's ed course required in SC --
autodidacts simply pass the written test, which includes some of the
drug & alcohol awareness info, and receive a learner's permit --
then, proceed to learn to drive on the road under an adult, licensed
driver's supervision (you know, like the old days when your parents
sat by your side and took part in the process as a matter of course -
- white knuckles notwithstanding.) Common sense and a lot of love
kept them in the passenger's seat till they were confident in our
ability to steer clear of trouble. Those were the days, my friend...

Here we are in FL -- mandated Traffic Law & Substance Abuse course,
reasonable priced (under $50) and even available in a convenient
online version. Major problem -- the course content on substance
abuse is highly objectionable (nightmarish to those who have gone
through the trauma of losing loved ones to DUI) and in conflict with
our sincerely-held religious beliefs and educational philosophy.

Have contacted the HSMV and State Representatives for information on
a waiver (for the objectionable part of the course, if not all), but
no go. Our Senator's legislative assistant is still looking into
the matter... maybe. Once we exhausted the obvious legal
alternatives, we decided to check out CompuHigh's offerings and drop
a line to Pat Montgomery at Clonlara. Haven't received a response
in the past few weeks since our first inquiry, so plan to follow-up
in a week or so.

Will have to see if any of the umbrella schools/co-ops here in FL
have tackled this one already -- perhaps it's our turn to take the
wheel and formalize our relationship to the un/homeschooling
community by gearing driver's ed to individual needs.

IMHO, driving should never be tied into grades, attendance, or
anything else as a matter of privilege -- it should be recognized as
a marketable skill, and in some cases, an absolute necessity. We
want all who are able to take the initiative to gain this skill
without compromising their values or welfare in the process.

Advice & suggestions welcome & encouraged! Hasta luego, Amigos...

Vayan con Dios ~
Penne & Buddies
>
> I think it is alot easier for new homeschoolers to find the
support they
> need when you have a co-op like this too. They can jump right in
to a
> thriving community of homeschoolers instead of winging it on their
own.
>
>
> The Center that we use is quite far from us, so we often do not
get to
> participate in many of the activities that interest us. I wish we
could have
> them in every community so that more of the wonderful
opportunities were
> available to every one who want to learn for life. Not just the
hsers or
> even just the kids.
>
> Cathie
>