Sherry Hagen

Hi Folks,

Great to see others sorting through what the year might be like. One of my favorite things to do when I was a child is get school supplies, my son couldn't care less. I liked what Erin said about constant diligence and taking advantage of learning opportunities. We never are lacking on what to explore and he seems to be picking up all the basics at the same time. Of course many of his ideas don't quite work, like making a skateboard into a hoverboard or turning our car into a jet, but this is a learning experience. For my own sanitity, I am "scheduling" and outing a day. My son and I are taking about places to go: airport, park, grocery store, museum, zoo, lake, nature center. Some of the outings will be with another homeschooling Mom. My son will miss the constant stream of children to play with in the neighborhood.

Sherry

[email protected] wrote:

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>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 20 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: My 4 year old
> From: "Tracy Oldfield" <tracy.oldfield@...>
> 2. Re: My 4 year old
> From: "LisaKK" <LisaBugg@...>
> 3. Re: My 4 year old
> From: Donald and Crystal Meaker <meakerfam@...>
> 4. RE: our bodies
> From: "M & J Welch" <seamus@...>
> 5. Re: our bodies
> From: David Albert <shantinik@...>
> 6. Re: our bodies
> From: phoenix@...
> 7. school year beginning
> From: MorelFam@...
> 8. Re: My 4 year old
> From: "Joseph May" <j1986@...>
> 9. RE: our bodies
> From: "M & J Welch" <seamus@...>
> 10. RE: our bodies
> From: "M & J Welch" <seamus@...>
> 11. Re: our bodies-Julie
> From: Shelley A Stefanic <sveetp@...>
> 12. Re: My 4 year old
> From: Shelley A Stefanic <sveetp@...>
> 13. Re: Abuse &Neglect..hunger, overpopulation(my take)
> From: "Michelle Harper" <earthmagik@...>
> 14. Re: our bodies
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> 15. Re: our bodies
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> 16. totally OT pagan question
> From: cen46624@...
> 17. Re: our bodies-Julie
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> 18. Re: Sesame street-LisaKK
> From: "Kim" <sinclai@...>
> 19. Re: our bodies-Julie
> From: Sonia Ulan <sulan@...>
> 20. Re: My 4 year old
> From: Sonia Ulan <sulan@...>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 01:53:14 +0100
> From: "Tracy Oldfield" <tracy.oldfield@...>
> Subject: Re: My 4 year old
>
> Kandice, afaik (and that's not saying much) autism usually shows
> itself from birth, unless it's connected with an event, like a
> vaccination, or a bout of measles. I read an article about families
> using homeopathy to tackle autism, focussing on figuring out what
> the trigger had been. Though there is a big developmental step
> around 3-4yo, your instinct that something's more seriously amiss
> could be correct. If you can track back to an event from where
> she began to go downhill, you may have a head-start.
>
> Best of luck
> Tracy
> PS while we're being medical, does anyone have any info on
> fibroids? treatment of them other than hysterectomy, preferably!
> TIA!!
>
> On 16 Aug 2000, at 19:33, Kandice Crockett wrote:
>
> She spends a lot of her time throwing fits of
> frustration and being stubborn
> about everything and anything.
> She was raised as a baby very lovingly by both me and
> my husband. She was
> very pampered and never left to cry. We just loved her
> to death. But she
> started acting this way at about 3 years old and I
> wonder if she isn't
> autistic to some degree. I have heard that this
> usually occurs at about 3
> years.
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:58:13 -0500
> From: "LisaKK" <LisaBugg@...>
> Subject: Re: My 4 year old
>
> Kandice, have you visited our message boards yet? There is a wonderful
> group of women who deal with differently abled kids, some autistic, some
> aspergers, some sensory integration problems there. They should be able to
> point you to many many resources. go to
> http://www.unschooling.com/discus/messages/board-topics.html and find the
> speical needs folder.
>
> Kandie Dermerst are you here???
>
> LisaKK
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kandice Crockett <naturalmom@...>
> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 6:33 PM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] My 4 year old
>
> >My daughter finally began calling us Mommy and Daddy at 3 years or so old
> >but mixed the names up for quite a while and still sometimes. She can't
> >draw a line from the "A" to the "B" or put a circle on the "B" or tell me
> if
> >there are two balls or three.
> >She can't really make a sentence yet. We can't particularly communicate
> >with her because she doesn't understand much of what we say unless we use
> >the very few words in her vocabulary.
> >When she talks, we often can figure out what she wants but just as often,
> we
> >can't.
> >She spends a lot of her time throwing fits of frustration and being
> stubborn
> >about everything and anything.
> >She was raised as a baby very lovingly by both me and my husband. She was
> >very pampered and never left to cry. We just loved her to death. But she
> >started acting this way at about 3 years old and I wonder if she isn't
> >autistic to some degree. I have heard that this usually occurs at about 3
> >years.
> >Since that time, she has gone from being our very sweet loving baby to
> being
> >very difficult for anyone in the family to live with. She spends a lot of
> >her time screaming at siblings.
> >If the kids take her outside for a walk, it becomes a big long screaming
> fit
> >for Michelle who isn't happy with anything at all particularly if it
> >involves the word "no". If we try to play with her, she is very likely to
> >grunt loudly at us defiantly and refuse to co-operate in anything.
> >I just don't know what to do with her.
> >I don't expect her to be like the gifted son and be a super child in her
> >abilities, but it would be nice if there was at least reasonable ability to
> >communicate with her. I don't know how to work with her and help her and
> >there isn't a way to explain anything to her that she is upset and
> screaming
> >about.
> >I don't mean to be one of those mothers who labels her kid and has too much
> >expectation. I just don't know if everything is okay with her or not. If
> >more time and freedom to do her own thing is all she needs, that would be
> >great. She is free to have it here. I just don't know if that's the case
> >and am worried.
> >
> >Blessings to you,
> >
> >Kandice
> >If I could show you how to make $300-$800+ mo. part-time at home with no
> selling, inventory,or huge
> >start-up cost, would you like to hear about it? NOT Amway! ;)
> kandyc@...
> >
> >-----------------------------------------------
> >FREE! The World's Best Email Address @...
> >Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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> >
> >Addresses:
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> >
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:39:59 -0500
> From: Donald and Crystal Meaker <meakerfam@...>
> Subject: Re: My 4 year old
>
> Could it just be that the child is simply at a point in her life where
> she is testing? I would hate to jump up and say "Autism" right away. Is
> she suddenly "unpampered". If she was pampared as a baby she may be
> resisting a change to anything that even smells like not getting her way.
>
> Pax,
> Crys
>
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:58:13 -0500 "LisaKK" <LisaBugg@...>
> writes:
> > Kandice, have you visited our message boards yet? There is a
> > wonderful
> > group of women who deal with differently abled kids, some autistic,
> > some
> > aspergers, some sensory integration problems there. They should be
> > able to
> > point you to many many resources. go to
> > http://www.unschooling.com/discus/messages/board-topics.html and
> > find the
> > speical needs folder.
> >
> > Kandie Dermerst are you here???
> >
> > LisaKK
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kandice Crockett <naturalmom@...>
> > To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> > Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 6:33 PM
> > Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] My 4 year old
> >
> >
> > >My daughter finally began calling us Mommy and Daddy at 3 years or
> > so old
> > >but mixed the names up for quite a while and still sometimes. She
> > can't
> > >draw a line from the "A" to the "B" or put a circle on the "B" or
> > tell me
> > if
> > >there are two balls or three.
> > >She can't really make a sentence yet. We can't particularly
> > communicate
> > >with her because she doesn't understand much of what we say unless
> > we use
> > >the very few words in her vocabulary.
> > >When she talks, we often can figure out what she wants but just as
> > often,
> > we
> > >can't.
> > >She spends a lot of her time throwing fits of frustration and being
> > stubborn
> > >about everything and anything.
> > >She was raised as a baby very lovingly by both me and my husband.
> > She was
> > >very pampered and never left to cry. We just loved her to death.
> > But she
> > >started acting this way at about 3 years old and I wonder if she
> > isn't
> > >autistic to some degree. I have heard that this usually occurs at
> > about 3
> > >years.
> > >Since that time, she has gone from being our very sweet loving baby
> > to
> > being
> > >very difficult for anyone in the family to live with. She spends a
> > lot of
> > >her time screaming at siblings.
> > >If the kids take her outside for a walk, it becomes a big long
> > screaming
> > fit
> > >for Michelle who isn't happy with anything at all particularly if
> > it
> > >involves the word "no". If we try to play with her, she is very
> > likely to
> > >grunt loudly at us defiantly and refuse to co-operate in anything.
> > >I just don't know what to do with her.
> > >I don't expect her to be like the gifted son and be a super child
> > in her
> > >abilities, but it would be nice if there was at least reasonable
> > ability to
> > >communicate with her. I don't know how to work with her and help
> > her and
> > >there isn't a way to explain anything to her that she is upset and
> > screaming
> > >about.
> > >I don't mean to be one of those mothers who labels her kid and has
> > too much
> > >expectation. I just don't know if everything is okay with her or
> > not. If
> > >more time and freedom to do her own thing is all she needs, that
> > would be
> > >great. She is free to have it here. I just don't know if that's
> > the case
> > >and am worried.
> > >
> > >Blessings to you,
> > >
> > >Kandice
> > >If I could show you how to make $300-$800+ mo. part-time at home
> > with no
> > selling, inventory,or huge
> > >start-up cost, would you like to hear about it? NOT Amway! ;)
> > kandyc@...
> > >
> > >-----------------------------------------------
> > >FREE! The World's Best Email Address @...
> > >Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > >Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> > >
> > >Addresses:
> > >Post message: [email protected]
> > >Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> > >List owner: [email protected]
> > >List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > Addresses:
> > Post message: [email protected]
> > Unsubscribe: [email protected]
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> >
> >
>
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:47:37 -0400
> From: "M & J Welch" <seamus@...>
> Subject: RE: our bodies
>
> My opinion, for what it's worth:
>
> It has not yet been conclusively proven/agreed upon when the moment that
> divine spark enters an unborn child's being. I'm not certain this can ever
> be proven, since it involves the private spiritual beliefs of the person
> making the decision. Because it involves the *beliefs* of the person making
> the decision, this is a morality issue, not a legal one. No matter my
> personal beliefs about the issue of abortion, I absolutely do not support
> the legislation of morality-for any reason, in any case. For me, the
> abortion issue fits right in there with the separation of church and state,
> and should remain so. I feel that women should have a choice to do what
> they will based upon their spiritual beliefs. Likewise, I feel that
> father's should have every right to bar an abortion based upon their
> spiritual beliefs. (Family court can duke it out-may the highest priced
> lawyer win.) And also, I do not believe there should be state or federal
> funding for abortions because it is a moral issue--with the exception of a
> poor health status of the unborn baby and/or mother. In that case, it
> becomes a health issue-which is not always related to morality.
>
> I think, I feel, I believe, Imho, of course.
>
> Respectfully
>
> Lee
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:54:54 -0700
> From: David Albert <shantinik@...>
> Subject: Re: our bodies
>
> M & J Welch wrote:
>
> > My opinion, for what it's worth:It has not yet been conclusively
> > proven/agreed upon when the moment that divine spark enters an unborn
> > child's being. I'm not certain this can ever be proven, since it
> > involves the private spiritual beliefs of the person making the
> > decision. Because it involves the *beliefs* of the person making the
> > decision, this is a morality issue, not a legal one. No matter my
> > personal beliefs about the issue of abortion, I absolutely do not
> > support the legislation of morality-for any reason, in any case
> >
> > While I am close to your view on abortion, are you sure you don't
> > support legislation of morality? Laws against murder, rape, theft,
> > etc.?
> >
> > I suspect your reply might be (but don't let me speak for you) that
> > abortion is different, because a person has it done to themselves, or
> > it is a "victimless crime". But that's what the abortion debate is
> > all about, to begin with, isn't it?
> >
> > Even for these other crimes, the legislation of morality is complex.
> > Not all killing is murder, legally. And, I might argue, there are
> > times when theft (i.e. if one is starving) might be justified. All
> > intriguing issues. But clearly ones I'd hope we'd legislate.
> >
> > David
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:16:18 -0700 (PDT)
> From: phoenix@...
> Subject: Re: our bodies
>
> "M & J Welch" <seamus@...> wrote:
>
> > It has not yet been conclusively proven/agreed upon when the moment that
> > divine spark enters an unborn child's being. I'm not certain this can ever
>
> Indeed. Many of us don't believe in a divine spark...
>
> > lawyer win.) And also, I do not believe there should be state or federal
> > funding for abortions because it is a moral issue--with the exception of a
>
> Some people object to war as a moral issue. They're allowed to get out of
> military service, I think (conscientious objectors) but their tax dollars
> still fund our war machine.
>
> -xx- Damien X-)
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:24:36 EDT
> From: MorelFam@...
> Subject: school year beginning
>
> as someone else mentioned, the beginning of the traditional school year often
> gives me doubts about our "plan!" or leaves me wishing i had more of a plan.
> so i was thinking, even as an unschooler, i can write down a plan, that may
> help me keep my sanity. this plan would NOT have subjects and page numbers
> and school assignments, but instead broad goals for the way we would like to
> see our family function over the upcoming year, how we would like to treat
> each other, what we would have liked to see happen if we looked back over a
> year. another idea that helps me a lot is to go back over the last year,
> (which was very "unschooly"for us) and record some of the many things that
> happened. it is validating, but still always hard to quantify ALL the
> wonderful learning that we know went on. it is sooo easy to focus on the
> areas we havent ever "covered..."
>
> having just given birth to our fifth child almost 4 wks ago, i feel a great
> loss of control over so many household things... and tho i am relaxed about
> most things most of the time (thats good!) there are those other times when i
> have this underlying grouchiness about the chaos. and i think it is due to a
> feeling of having no control over most things and being buffeted by the winds
> of many personalities daily. this is just life i guess.
>
> anyway, in wanting to give the best to the education end of things, i
> struggle with not helping the kids be steadfast in things they dont want to
> do. (like multiplication tables!) i dont want to have them hate those kinds
> of things, but i do want them to realize its not so bad to do things that
> aren't fun-- there is even a great sense of accomplishment there!
>
> my 10yo says she feels behind in things (obviously compared to someone!
> probably her one close friend who goes to school and is doing homework all
> the time!) it is hard, tho we try, to get across the concept of arbitrarily
> assigned knowledge and also everyone having a different set of life
> experiences and so NONE of us knowing the same things... so i let her peruse
> a book that is one of those that says what 4th graders are learning in
> school, so she would actually see on paper what things her school peers might
> be being taught and therefore perhaps not be intimidated that there is really
> much she might be missing.
>
> speaking of four year olds, i just love this age, and it does sound like
> something is going on with your sweetie, kandace. i hope you are able to
> check into the autism and allergies (both good sounding suggestions) and
> narrow down her situation so she can be releived of her frustrations and
> return to herself! best wishes, there.
>
> one more abstract thought... i wonder how many of you have an unschooling
> approach that reflects the active learning, conscious seeking out of info to
> answer ideas that come up-- constantly diligent and aware of opportunities to
> educate and absorb etc, verses the learning is happening whether you TRY or
> not method? i see these as some distinctions in unschoolers approaches...
>
> erin
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:49:33 -0500
> From: "Joseph May" <j1986@...>
> Subject: Re: My 4 year old
>
> Kandice,
> I know exactly what you are going through. My son know 7 was nonverbal until almost 4. I went from Dr. to Dr. and told he was just slow. I took him to a group of specialists and had a battery of tests run on him and was told he was austic. He also was uncontrolable. Screaming fits, frustritated very easily. I decided on a whim to go to an ENT DR. I found out he could not hear. He had fluid build up behind his ears(not due to ear infections) and his adnoide were 80% enlarged. I asked why no one found this sooner. DR. said no one ever did a tampanagram (SP?) on him. The funny thing was he could pass a regular hearing test.. Tubes went in the ears, adnoids and toncisls came out. He cried the first time he heard a plane fly over. He didn't know what it was. If you have ever read the checklist for autisum a large percentage of children would fall into the catagory.
> After we took care of my sons hearing the negative behavior stoped almost instantly. He started picking up things. He dosn't like loud noises they hurt him.
> I just wanted to share my experience with you and hope it helps.
> Dianna
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:51:27 -0400
> From: "M & J Welch" <seamus@...>
> Subject: RE: our bodies
>
> Hi David. I was thinking about this very question as I typed:
>
> > While I am close to your view on abortion, are you sure you don't
> > support legislation of morality? Laws against murder, rape, theft,
> > etc.?
>
> Your supposition that I would state abortion is different since it is a
> "victimless crime" is close. The "victim" factor in an abortion cannot be
> measured without some level of spiritual bias, since the very
> nature/definition of the victim is in question. However, in a rape or murder
> where the victim is a person whom is unquestionably sentient and
> alive-irregardless of personal beliefs, the crime clearly has a victim.
>
> > Even for these other crimes, the legislation of morality is complex.
> > Not all killing is murder, legally. And, I might argue, there are
> > times when theft (i.e. if one is starving) might be justified. All
> > intriguing issues. But clearly ones I'd hope we'd legislate.
>
> Excellent points. It would be foolish of me to think there is any
> legislation in existence which is not based on morality of some sort, but in
> these cases the ethic of "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the
> few" seems to guide what legislation takes place. As soon as humans began
> to live in societies of significant numbers, certain necessary "rules"
> became evident to ensure the safety of the civilization and individual
> property rights. Let's be harsh for a moment, and say: since unborn babies
> are not yet "property", but the woman carrying the child is, her welfare
> overrides the potential real estate inside her womb. I suppose this leads
> me to argue that making abortion illegal doesn't serve the purpose of
> ensuring the safety of the civilization, people and property at large in the
> U.S.-excepting in a purely long distance survival/future shock sort of way.
> Given the world population dilemma, this is not something which is much of a
> concern right now.
>
> To those reading-I use the term "property" in the most abstract sense. I in
> no way consider babies or women property, but truly they were considered so
> in the past, and unfortunately are still in some cultures. (Strangely,
> probably in those cultures which do not allow abortion.)
>
> All that above said, I know I would be a horrible Justice of the Peace,
> since I decide most everything on a case by case standard. I have never
> heard of or experienced any life rules of conduct, no matter how black or
> white, that don't have an exception.
>
> Lee
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:05:06 -0400
> From: "M & J Welch" <seamus@...>
> Subject: RE: our bodies
>
> This is a good point, too:
>
> Some people object to war as a moral issue. They're allowed to get out of
> military service, I think (conscientious objectors) but their tax dollars
> still fund our war machine.
>
> As I said to David, the requirements of a society to ensure safety and
> property take precedence over most kinds of private morality; hence the U.S.
> government's continued use of coscientious objectors tax dollars to support
> the offices of defense is seen to support the good of the many. A little
> bit off topic, but, one could see this as a buy off. A U.S. citizen has the
> right to avoid military service because he/she pays his taxes. That's how I
> personally perceive my choice to homeschool. I'll gladly pay the education
> tax, even though I don't use the monies for my own kids' education. In a
> sense I feel it legitimizes my right to homeschool.
>
> Now, where I made the leap from one to the other is up for debate. I can't
> quite figure out my logic! :-) Give me some time-I think I can work it out!
> Maybe! ;-P
>
> Lee
> (intuitively leaping)
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:01:25 -0500
> From: Shelley A Stefanic <sveetp@...>
> Subject: Re: our bodies-Julie
>
> >
> >There is no shortage of loving people to adopt children
> >from other parts of the world... >
>
> I have to say there is no shortage of loving families to adopt babies.
> Where are all these loving families to adopt the other children? We have
> plenty of children in this country in need of adoption, they just aren't
> babies. I'm sure it's the same elseware. It sadly reminds me of puppies
> at animal shelters. They get all the attention while the older dogs sit
> around unnoticed.
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:06:52 -0500
> From: Shelley A Stefanic <sveetp@...>
> Subject: Re: My 4 year old
>
> Kandice,
> I don't know anything about autism, possibly that is the case. However,
> even in "normal" children, 3 is an age where your loving "Dr. Jekel" can
> turn into "Mr. Hyde". The "terrible two's" have nothing on the "VERY
> trying three's".
> ~Shelley
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:12:02 -0500
> From: "Michelle Harper" <earthmagik@...>
> Subject: Re: Abuse &Neglect..hunger, overpopulation(my take)
>
> Hi All! I was triggered by your conversation on this subject of abortion, human rights, hunger, over population, and many other attrocities. I remember the comment of a swollen belly from hunger, I believe over population, medically & naturally is a direct effect of hunger, and diseased standards of living. When one country has let's say 50 % of the resources of the world, the other countries get to scramble & divide the other 50%, throw in another money full country, and there goes another 30% throw in a few more, and few with less, SOMEBODY ends up with NOthing! If all the water is moved, all the seeds, and food are grown here, and there, but not there, cause they just can't afford it. SOMEBODY starves. When SOMEBODY is in a constant state of malnutrition, and war, and lack of "natural resources" , I think our bodies & genetically we are directly affected. I think that naturally our bodies are meant to flourish & be healthy, in just about every environment known to man, with a fair distribution of resources. Now let's just say, as a hypothesis that when under undue or unchangeable stress the body acts in such a way that defenses are put out into the bodies system, and that one of those defenses just happens to be fertility for the survival of the species. A NAtural occurance. If this were the case which I believe it IS. Over population would be a lessening factor in our Equal HUman RIght s struggle, because the "evening" of resources would allow for "ALL" people to have a fair , healthy & interchangeable relationship with our Homes, the Earth. I believe this the planet we live on is actually like the garden of Eden, everything, that each spirit-(&)-body that exists here needs to survive & flourish , there are resources for a sustainable living & path of the creature...we only have too many greedy bodies, taking too much from the rest of the folks.
> Abortion is such a touchy and deep subject, I do not believe "spiritually" that anyone can make a definitive "logical" denomination from never having such an experience. You would need to walk in the shoes of the person on the road you condemn, before you would know if they were truly wrong unto themselves, and unto that which they were learning in this lifetime......who are we to judge.(in other words) Ofcourse there is what I would feel to be an abuse, when it come to abortion, but will I place myself in the seat of Judgement to inflict my place in truth on someone else? No. Truth is found only within, not without, and even if I tried to place judgement upon someone else it would not affect their truth within themselves, any more, than taking them farther from there own , by defense. Death is crucial, and an integral part of experience in life. ALl species are affected by it..no one is spared. So I do what is most beneficial to my own survival, & that of my family, & being in tune with rythms of the natural world are the most trustworthy ways, "I" have found. It is all we truly have to rely on that is true to itself, true to it's surroudings, true to the future & the past......it is a weave of many different experiences, and we should honor all stages of it, for my experiences are based in my life..and them in there's . Ofcourse it is natural for us to move away from or remove ourselves from experiences we find to be inadequate or unaccepteable based on our feelings...that is just as natural. But I "personally " try to recognize something just as it is,why base my beliefs for fear I will be like it or condone it. Honoring everything in it's place allows me to justify even more clearly why I do not want something in my lifeor teaches me ther is more to learn here. ANd makes actions I do not think are conducive to my growth, more " recognizeable" allowing me to more easily avoid them. But on those perchance meetings , out of the blue, well, I honor them, I donot , or at least I try not to "JUDGE" them, for that is not my place. I am hear to learn & teach .......there is so much to learn & teach. Michelle*
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:13:10 -0700
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> Subject: Re: our bodies
>
> That stat is something the pro-lifers invented! No such statistics are
> kept when intake is done on an abuse case.
>
> Lynda
>
> ----------
> > From: Sue <sue.m.e@...>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] our bodies
> > Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 1:23 PM
> >
> > On 16 Aug 2000, at 12:18, phoenix@... wrote:
> >
> >
> > > > within each and every city that are abused and neglected because the
> parents
> > > > do not want them! Give me one good and logical reason we should add
> to
> >
> > Yes, but statistics on child abuse show that it is generally much
> > worse in children who's mothers have had pregnancy terminations.
> >
> > I was an abused child, and I would rather have been born then
> > abused than to have been terminated.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sue
> >
> > The Winona Farm in Minnesota Welcomes Unschoolers All Year Round
> > My website: http://members.xoom.com/sue_m_e
> > Farm website: http://members.xoom.com/winfarm/
> > Farm newsletter: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Winonafarm
> >
> > "To believe in something, and not to live it,
> > is to be dishonest." -Mahatma Gandhi
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > Addresses:
> > Post message: [email protected]
> > Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> > List owner: [email protected]
> > List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:26:00 -0700
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> Subject: Re: our bodies
>
> Well, this is a two way street. Yes, more women should take responsibility
> for their actions, however, the resulting life should not be punished
> because someone thinks they should be forced to have that unwanted child.
>
> This isn't a perfect world and no one has the right to make moral decisions
> for someone else. If the pro-lifers have their way there will be many
> deaths from back alley abortions. There will also be instances of women
> having to go to term and then delivering terminally deformed or dead
> fetuses. We had several cases of fetuses that were not complete and would
> have continued to term but would have "died" shortly after birth and would
> have only lived that short time on machines.
>
> I had the misfortune of working in the radiology department of a large
> hospital. All the child abuse cases came through our department as the law
> required full body x-rays to be done to check for prior injuries. While
> some of you may express the sentiments that you would rather be abused than
> aborted, I'm sure there are others that would disagree. I'm sure the child
> we came to know as "Sunny" would have preferred not to be born than to have
> cigerettes put out on his little legs; than to have needles broken off
> under his fingernails; than to be thrown through a window and left outside
> all night; than to be later returned to his parents because they were
> "cured" after counseling. Did I mention that "Sunny" was 11 months old and
> that we were all threatened with jail because we faked continuing medical
> problems and kept him in the hospital for 3 extra months. Oh, in case I
> forgot to mention it, 6 weeks after we were forced to release him from the
> hospital to his parents, he was dead. AND, at the trial, the mother was
> heard to say "See, if I'd had that abortion we wouldn't be going to jail
> now."
>
> I can give you lots more of those kind of cases that I personally
> witnessed.
>
> Lynda, who quite working there because she was about 1 day away from
> murdering some sorry excuse for a parent!
>
> ----------
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] our bodies
> > Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 12:11 PM
> >
> > I agree on many points Amy has brought up (adoption from other countries
> and
> > tons of abuse in our country), but I don't believe abortion is the answer
> to
> > over-population or the solution to not wanting a baby ....(this is going
> to
> > sound crude and there are exceptions to everything) but I have a huge
> problem
> > with women using abortion as a means of birth control. If they aren't
> ready
> > to be a parent, use birth control or keep their legs shut! These tiny
> baby's
> > did NOTHING to deserve been flushed out of there safe home. They did not
>
> > asked to be conceived. There are a lot of parents who want infants to
> adopt,
> > but few women are willing to make the sacrifices needed for the nine
> months
> > the baby needs to survive in our world. (This is my personal opinion) I
> feel
> > these women are selfish and are willing to take more chances of getting
> > pregnant because they have an the option of taking the easy road with
> > abortion.
> >
> > I am simply stating my opinion, and do not wish to make others anger,
> just
> > offering food for thought....
> >
> > Julie
> > BTW, this is one of my pet peeves, in case you had not noticed! : )
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > Addresses:
> > Post message: [email protected]
> > Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> > List owner: [email protected]
> > List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 02:19:22 EDT
> From: cen46624@...
> Subject: totally OT pagan question
>
> Hi all you pagans out there!
>
> Can you help me? I just found out that someone that matters to me is pagan
> (Wiccan), and I don't know what to/not to do or say. That is, I don't know
> what he would consider offensive, or just plain stupid. I said to one pagan
> friend "I guess you don't do Easter eggs" and found out later how truly
> stupid that probably sounded.
>
> I'm interested, but not interested enough to read a book, so book
> recommendations probably won't help. ;-)
>
> Basically, I want the FAQ. Not that I'm thinking he's a devil-worshipper, or
> anything, just totally in the dark.
>
> TIA
>
> :-) Diane
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:57:53 -0700
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> Subject: Re: our bodies-Julie
>
> There is no shortage of people to adopt perfect babies. If there were no
> shortage of people to adopt babies then there wouldn't be so many babies in
> foster care that end up transitioned into a permanent go round of foster
> care to group homes to foster care to juvenile detention centers and the
> merry-go-round continues.
>
> Lynda
>
> ----------
> > From: Shelley A Stefanic <sveetp@...>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] our bodies-Julie
> > Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 10:01 PM
> >
> >
> > >
> > >There is no shortage of loving people to adopt children
> > >from other parts of the world... >
> >
> > I have to say there is no shortage of loving families to adopt babies.
> > Where are all these loving families to adopt the other children? We have
> > plenty of children in this country in need of adoption, they just aren't
> > babies. I'm sure it's the same elseware. It sadly reminds me of puppies
> > at animal shelters. They get all the attention while the older dogs sit
> > around unnoticed.
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > Addresses:
> > Post message: [email protected]
> > Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> > List owner: [email protected]
> > List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:31:54 -0700
> From: "Kim" <sinclai@...>
> Subject: Re: Sesame street-LisaKK
>
> Oooh, I know what you mean! I started going through the school materials
> today, trying to figure out what we were going to do this year! I just
> can't seem to relax! I started watching the math videos that I got from PBS
> and I heard the traditional moans from my 10 yo! But after awhile she came
> and sat by me and watched the videos and even said that some of the lessons
> looked fun! I told her we would do the fun ones only if she wanted to and
> she seemed much more receptive! Maybe math will even be fun this year!
> Kim (crossing fingers, but not pushing!)
>
> > From: "Karen Paulson" <learnforlife@...>
> > Subject: Re: Sesame street-LisaKK
> >
> > Lisa, I really agreed with everything you said . You have such a
> reassuring way with words! With the new traditional school year having just
> begun here in Evansville, I had a pang of doubt in unschooling. My oldest
> would have started kdg this year, had we gone that route, and so I found
> myself wanting to push academic activities on him earlier this week on
> Monday (the first day of local school). Well, it was a terrible day, and a
> very l-o-n-g day. I don't know what got into me, just fear I guess. The
> old former teacher in me reared her head, and I let it control me. Needless
> to say, I backed off, and Tuesday was so much better. :) It may be
> something I will struggle with off and on-- hope not too much, though.
> So, again, I just wanted to say how I enjoyed your post, and how it spoke to
> me. ~Karen
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:31:35 -0600
> From: Sonia Ulan <sulan@...>
> Subject: Re: our bodies-Julie
>
> VERY well put, Julie and Karen!!!
>
> Sonia
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 01:07:08 -0600
> From: Sonia Ulan <sulan@...>
> Subject: Re: My 4 year old
>
> Hi Kandice;
>
> Is there a chance your delicious daughter could be affected by
> vaccinations? There are many who theorize some of us do react to infant
> vaccinations and your situation could be the result 3-4 years
> later...Perhaps a homeopath could shed some light?
>
> Whatever the cause, she will certainly thrive in your tender,
> supportive, sensitive and loving care!
>
> Some behaviorial problems can be tempered with a routine the child can
> count on. My best friend's daughter struggled with behaviorial and
> communicative frustrations until almost 5 when SUDDENLY her
> speech/vocabulary improved sufficiently that she could communicate more
> effectively. My friend also tried limiting refined sugars and white
> flour. Food sensitivities can be under-diagnosed and explain some of
> what you might be seeing.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Sonia
>
> Kandice Crockett wrote:
> >
> > My daughter finally began calling us Mommy and Daddy at 3 years or so old
> > but mixed the names up for quite a while and still sometimes. She can't
> > draw a line from the "A" to the "B" or put a circle on the "B" or tell me if
> > there are two balls or three.
> > She can't really make a sentence yet. We can't particularly communicate
> > with her because she doesn't understand much of what we say unless we use
> > the very few words in her vocabulary.
> > When she talks, we often can figure out what she wants but just as often, we
> > can't.
> > She spends a lot of her time throwing fits of frustration and being stubborn
> > about everything and anything.
> > She was raised as a baby very lovingly by both me and my husband. She was
> > very pampered and never left to cry. We just loved her to death. But she
> > started acting this way at about 3 years old and I wonder if she isn't
> > autistic to some degree. I have heard that this usually occurs at about 3
> > years.
> > Since that time, she has gone from being our very sweet loving baby to being
> > very difficult for anyone in the family to live with. She spends a lot of
> > her time screaming at siblings.
> > If the kids take her outside for a walk, it becomes a big long screaming fit
> > for Michelle who isn't happy with anything at all particularly if it
> > involves the word "no". If we try to play with her, she is very likely to
> > grunt loudly at us defiantly and refuse to co-operate in anything.
> > I just don't know what to do with her.
> > I don't expect her to be like the gifted son and be a super child in her
> > abilities, but it would be nice if there was at least reasonable ability to
> > communicate with her. I don't know how to work with her and help her and
> > there isn't a way to explain anything to her that she is upset and screaming
> > about.
> > I don't mean to be one of those mothers who labels her kid and has too much
> > expectation. I just don't know if everything is okay with her or not. If
> > more time and freedom to do her own thing is all she needs, that would be
> > great. She is free to have it here. I just don't know if that's the case
> > and am worried.
> >
> > Blessings to you,
> >
> > Kandice
> > If I could show you how to make $300-$800+ mo. part-time at home with no selling, inventory,or huge
> > start-up cost, would you like to hear about it? NOT Amway! ;) kandyc@...
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------
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> > Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
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>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________

Tracy Oldfield

we're talking about making a weekly event for us as a family,
since we work from home, and dh seems very tied up the the
concept of weekends... ugh! so I think i've talked him into setting
one weekend-day to work and taking a day in the week 'off,' to go
to the places we haven't been while the school holidays are on cos
they're too busy. Watch this space!! LOL

Tracy
PS It's really not good netiquette to include the whole digest with
your reply :-) not trying to get at you or anything!!

On 17 Aug 2000, at 7:42, Sherry Hagen wrote:

For my own sanitity, I am "scheduling" and outing a
day. My son and I are taking about places to go:
airport, park, grocery store, museum, zoo, lake, nature
center. Some of the outings will be with another
homeschooling Mom. My son will miss the constant
stream of children to play with in the neighborhood.

Sherry

Billy or Nancy

http://www.democrats.org/gopwatch/bushwatch/accountability/home.html
(from another list)

Since this is on the DNC site, it is obviously meant to be a negative
attack on Bush, but it has the opposite effect on me. It makes it
clear that the DNC must be in favor of more regulation and supportive
of the NEA stance.

Billy

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