smoking
[email protected]
Tamie,
Don't beat yourself up. I quit for 25 months, and I thought I was doing
great. Then the many stresses got to me and I started again.
Gum is good, but so is staying busy. Go to places where smoking is not
allowed. Throw out all the ashtrays and lighters, they just remind you
of smoking, and ban smoking from your house, car, etc. Make it really
hard for you to enjoy smoking during your last days until your quit day.
Best of luck to ya, Susan
Don't beat yourself up. I quit for 25 months, and I thought I was doing
great. Then the many stresses got to me and I started again.
Gum is good, but so is staying busy. Go to places where smoking is not
allowed. Throw out all the ashtrays and lighters, they just remind you
of smoking, and ban smoking from your house, car, etc. Make it really
hard for you to enjoy smoking during your last days until your quit day.
Best of luck to ya, Susan
jmcseals SEALS
Good grief! Today, Haleigh went out in the garage and found one of my
husband's cigarettes. AFTER the fact, the girls came and got me and told me
she "made" them try it after she tried it. Of course, they were all
laughing because smoke was coming out of their noses. Sheesh. Lauren said
she didn't do it because it is gross but evidently, Haleigh, Nicholette and
Ethan all did.
I had a talk with Nicholette about Haleigh "making" her do things. This is
a big problem with her. Nic is very follow the leader. I didn't make a
huge deal out of it just gave her a few analogies and explained to her that
if someone tried to get her to do something she knows she shouldn't be doing
or something that makes her feel uncomfortable that she should always come
tell me.
As far as the smoking itself, I'm really struggling with how to deal with
it. I told the kids I needed some time to think about it an we would talk
about it in the morning. (I was bathing the babies when this happened.)
I need some peaceful solutions to this! Part of me is really miffed at
Haleigh for doing it in the first place and then getting the other kids to
try it. Part of me is irritated at my husband. Part of me feels like since
he smokes, they think it's cool, whatever, and it was bound to happen at
some point so I shouldn't glorify it into some huge thing.
How do you guide your children while being hypocritical? Daddy smokes, but
YOU can't. Argh! I've actually had these discussions with them and they
come up with some pretty good come-backs that I have a hard time addressing.
I *want* to handle this logically and gently. Thing is, I don't exactly
know how and I keep hearing myself say (in my head) "Daddy is a grown up and
he is old enough to make those decisions but you are a child and it is my
responsibility to protect you from harmful things, so don't ever let me
catch you going near a cigarette for the rest of your LIFE!" LOL Not the
approach I want to take. BUT, I'm not willing to just let them smoke
either. What to do???
Jennfier
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
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husband's cigarettes. AFTER the fact, the girls came and got me and told me
she "made" them try it after she tried it. Of course, they were all
laughing because smoke was coming out of their noses. Sheesh. Lauren said
she didn't do it because it is gross but evidently, Haleigh, Nicholette and
Ethan all did.
I had a talk with Nicholette about Haleigh "making" her do things. This is
a big problem with her. Nic is very follow the leader. I didn't make a
huge deal out of it just gave her a few analogies and explained to her that
if someone tried to get her to do something she knows she shouldn't be doing
or something that makes her feel uncomfortable that she should always come
tell me.
As far as the smoking itself, I'm really struggling with how to deal with
it. I told the kids I needed some time to think about it an we would talk
about it in the morning. (I was bathing the babies when this happened.)
I need some peaceful solutions to this! Part of me is really miffed at
Haleigh for doing it in the first place and then getting the other kids to
try it. Part of me is irritated at my husband. Part of me feels like since
he smokes, they think it's cool, whatever, and it was bound to happen at
some point so I shouldn't glorify it into some huge thing.
How do you guide your children while being hypocritical? Daddy smokes, but
YOU can't. Argh! I've actually had these discussions with them and they
come up with some pretty good come-backs that I have a hard time addressing.
I *want* to handle this logically and gently. Thing is, I don't exactly
know how and I keep hearing myself say (in my head) "Daddy is a grown up and
he is old enough to make those decisions but you are a child and it is my
responsibility to protect you from harmful things, so don't ever let me
catch you going near a cigarette for the rest of your LIFE!" LOL Not the
approach I want to take. BUT, I'm not willing to just let them smoke
either. What to do???
Jennfier
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Tammy in MS
That's a tough one for me, Jennifer. I grew up around smoking all my life
and I would venture to guess that about 1/3 of the kids that grew up with me
did start smoking at some point. I would venture to say that it may be a an
dependency issue, after the initial "being cool" thing. Maybe similar to
one's dependency on aspirin, anti-depressants, curricula, etc... I haven't
done much research on it so I'm just putting out random thoughts here.
Maybe help them see it in the perspective of a person being dependent on an
external something that becomes such a part of a person's life that it is
hard to see anything different, until the person has positive internal
reasons to change. Some people I know tell their kids that people who smoke
are bad. From what I've seen it throws guilt and shame out there so much to
the point it impossible for a person to have the desire to quit. Kinda like
forcing anything on anybody who is not ready...it makes it impossible. I
don't know.
Tammy
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, May 10, 2003 22:18:34
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] smoking
Good grief! Today, Haleigh went out in the garage and found one of my
husband's cigarettes. AFTER the fact, the girls came and got me and told me
she "made" them try it after she tried it. Of course, they were all
laughing because smoke was coming out of their noses. Sheesh. Lauren said
she didn't do it because it is gross but evidently, Haleigh, Nicholette and
Ethan all did.
I had a talk with Nicholette about Haleigh "making" her do things. This is
a big problem with her. Nic is very follow the leader. I didn't make a
huge deal out of it just gave her a few analogies and explained to her that
if someone tried to get her to do something she knows she shouldn't be doing
or something that makes her feel uncomfortable that she should always come
tell me.
As far as the smoking itself, I'm really struggling with how to deal with
it. I told the kids I needed some time to think about it an we would talk
about it in the morning. (I was bathing the babies when this happened.)
I need some peaceful solutions to this! Part of me is really miffed at
Haleigh for doing it in the first place and then getting the other kids to
try it. Part of me is irritated at my husband. Part of me feels like since
he smokes, they think it's cool, whatever, and it was bound to happen at
some point so I shouldn't glorify it into some huge thing.
How do you guide your children while being hypocritical? Daddy smokes, but
YOU can't. Argh! I've actually had these discussions with them and they
come up with some pretty good come-backs that I have a hard time addressing.
I *want* to handle this logically and gently. Thing is, I don't exactly
know how and I keep hearing myself say (in my head) "Daddy is a grown up and
he is old enough to make those decisions but you are a child and it is my
responsibility to protect you from harmful things, so don't ever let me
catch you going near a cigarette for the rest of your LIFE!" LOL Not the
approach I want to take. BUT, I'm not willing to just let them smoke
either. What to do???
Jennfier
_________________________________________________________________
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http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and I would venture to guess that about 1/3 of the kids that grew up with me
did start smoking at some point. I would venture to say that it may be a an
dependency issue, after the initial "being cool" thing. Maybe similar to
one's dependency on aspirin, anti-depressants, curricula, etc... I haven't
done much research on it so I'm just putting out random thoughts here.
Maybe help them see it in the perspective of a person being dependent on an
external something that becomes such a part of a person's life that it is
hard to see anything different, until the person has positive internal
reasons to change. Some people I know tell their kids that people who smoke
are bad. From what I've seen it throws guilt and shame out there so much to
the point it impossible for a person to have the desire to quit. Kinda like
forcing anything on anybody who is not ready...it makes it impossible. I
don't know.
Tammy
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, May 10, 2003 22:18:34
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] smoking
Good grief! Today, Haleigh went out in the garage and found one of my
husband's cigarettes. AFTER the fact, the girls came and got me and told me
she "made" them try it after she tried it. Of course, they were all
laughing because smoke was coming out of their noses. Sheesh. Lauren said
she didn't do it because it is gross but evidently, Haleigh, Nicholette and
Ethan all did.
I had a talk with Nicholette about Haleigh "making" her do things. This is
a big problem with her. Nic is very follow the leader. I didn't make a
huge deal out of it just gave her a few analogies and explained to her that
if someone tried to get her to do something she knows she shouldn't be doing
or something that makes her feel uncomfortable that she should always come
tell me.
As far as the smoking itself, I'm really struggling with how to deal with
it. I told the kids I needed some time to think about it an we would talk
about it in the morning. (I was bathing the babies when this happened.)
I need some peaceful solutions to this! Part of me is really miffed at
Haleigh for doing it in the first place and then getting the other kids to
try it. Part of me is irritated at my husband. Part of me feels like since
he smokes, they think it's cool, whatever, and it was bound to happen at
some point so I shouldn't glorify it into some huge thing.
How do you guide your children while being hypocritical? Daddy smokes, but
YOU can't. Argh! I've actually had these discussions with them and they
come up with some pretty good come-backs that I have a hard time addressing.
I *want* to handle this logically and gently. Thing is, I don't exactly
know how and I keep hearing myself say (in my head) "Daddy is a grown up and
he is old enough to make those decisions but you are a child and it is my
responsibility to protect you from harmful things, so don't ever let me
catch you going near a cigarette for the rest of your LIFE!" LOL Not the
approach I want to take. BUT, I'm not willing to just let them smoke
either. What to do???
Jennfier
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
At 22:18 5/10/03 -0500, Jennifer wrote:
As far as what to do about it, I think you really have to be honest with
them and speak to them as you might someone who is not aware of something
but who needs your help to see all sides of the issue. You can tell them
exactly why smoking is a poor choice to make, and that their dad made a
real poor choice. You can tell them that cigarettes are manufactured by
corporations that profit greatly from people getting addicted to cigarettes
and then find themselves unable to stop, and that the corporations know
about it and don't care. You can also tell them that many people (maybe
most?) start smoking when they're young and impressionable because there is
this 'coolness' attached to smoking in our pop culture, but they soon grow
to regret it when they try to quit but are not able to.
I think I would also tell my son that there are certain things that he may
do that I might not want him to do, and that I really cannot stop
him. But, I would tell him (and I have told him, in fact) that he is the
one to make choices for himself and for his own reasons, and I will not
judge him on this. We all make our own choices for ourselves. I would hope
that he would base his choices on what *he* wants for himself as opposed to
pressure exerted on him from others, but he should know that I will be open
to him and ready to help him, if he needs me to, in whatever way he wants
me to.
I guess that's because my greatest concern is not that he'll try different
things, but that he'll go underground about it and then I won't be able to
help him if he would need it. He may want to try smoking (but I doubt it
'cause I've given him a lot of bad press about it, and he's not at all
impressed with people who smoke), and then he may decide that it's
disgusting and stop. But, I told him my story, which was that I started
smoking at the age of 13 because all my friends smoked and I wanted to be
cool and included. I told him how I had to smoke a whole pack of
cigarettes one night to get past the dizziness and nausea and that it was
really disgusting. And then, I told him that I got addicted and had a real
hard time quitting. But, I was able to quit because I had a real good
reason to.
I guess the thing I'm trying to bring out in this is that I think it's
important that you be completely honest with your kids about this. If you
are speaking your truth, *that* will be your peaceful solution. I believe
they will respond to it because it will come from that powerful place that
is not manipulative but forthright.
I hope this helps!
Happy Mamma's Day. ;-)
Marji
P.S. One of the things I do to give smoking bad press is to point out
stuff when I see it. For instance, we have a friend who is a heavy smoker
(a few, in fact), and he has that unfortunate smoker's cough/laugh, if you
know what I mean. It always breaks my heart when I hear that, but Liam
knows what that is and why.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Good grief! Today, Haleigh went out in the garage and found one of myThat was good (to give yourself time, I mean)!
>husband's cigarettes. <snip> As far as the smoking itself, I'm really
>struggling with how to deal with it. I told the kids I needed some time
>to think about it an we would talk about it in the morning. (I was
>bathing the babies when this happened.)
As far as what to do about it, I think you really have to be honest with
them and speak to them as you might someone who is not aware of something
but who needs your help to see all sides of the issue. You can tell them
exactly why smoking is a poor choice to make, and that their dad made a
real poor choice. You can tell them that cigarettes are manufactured by
corporations that profit greatly from people getting addicted to cigarettes
and then find themselves unable to stop, and that the corporations know
about it and don't care. You can also tell them that many people (maybe
most?) start smoking when they're young and impressionable because there is
this 'coolness' attached to smoking in our pop culture, but they soon grow
to regret it when they try to quit but are not able to.
I think I would also tell my son that there are certain things that he may
do that I might not want him to do, and that I really cannot stop
him. But, I would tell him (and I have told him, in fact) that he is the
one to make choices for himself and for his own reasons, and I will not
judge him on this. We all make our own choices for ourselves. I would hope
that he would base his choices on what *he* wants for himself as opposed to
pressure exerted on him from others, but he should know that I will be open
to him and ready to help him, if he needs me to, in whatever way he wants
me to.
I guess that's because my greatest concern is not that he'll try different
things, but that he'll go underground about it and then I won't be able to
help him if he would need it. He may want to try smoking (but I doubt it
'cause I've given him a lot of bad press about it, and he's not at all
impressed with people who smoke), and then he may decide that it's
disgusting and stop. But, I told him my story, which was that I started
smoking at the age of 13 because all my friends smoked and I wanted to be
cool and included. I told him how I had to smoke a whole pack of
cigarettes one night to get past the dizziness and nausea and that it was
really disgusting. And then, I told him that I got addicted and had a real
hard time quitting. But, I was able to quit because I had a real good
reason to.
I guess the thing I'm trying to bring out in this is that I think it's
important that you be completely honest with your kids about this. If you
are speaking your truth, *that* will be your peaceful solution. I believe
they will respond to it because it will come from that powerful place that
is not manipulative but forthright.
I hope this helps!
Happy Mamma's Day. ;-)
Marji
P.S. One of the things I do to give smoking bad press is to point out
stuff when I see it. For instance, we have a friend who is a heavy smoker
(a few, in fact), and he has that unfortunate smoker's cough/laugh, if you
know what I mean. It always breaks my heart when I hear that, but Liam
knows what that is and why.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jmcseals SEALS
I agree. It's really hard! I've heard that said, too. That people who
smoke are bad people. I think that's a bit over the top. I can agree that
it's a bad habit...and yes, I think it does start out as a curiosity, cool
thing to try, something to impress your friends, etc. but it becomes a habit
so easily. If this were drugs, it would be so much easier for me to talk
with them about it. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing!
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
smoke are bad people. I think that's a bit over the top. I can agree that
it's a bad habit...and yes, I think it does start out as a curiosity, cool
thing to try, something to impress your friends, etc. but it becomes a habit
so easily. If this were drugs, it would be so much easier for me to talk
with them about it. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing!
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
moonstarshooter
--- In [email protected], "jmcseals SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
upbringing caused me at age 5 to tell my grandfather repeatedly that
he was going to go to hell for smoking cigarettes. What actually
bothers me more is that my mom never stepped in to knock some sense
into me.
What I have told my daughter about the whole smoking issue (she is
six, and we had these discussions over a year ago) is that smoking is
similar to many other things in life in that too much of it is bad
for you. (Now don't attack me here, I know even a little smoking is
bad for your lungs, but my goal is to de-mystify it.) Too much
sugary food is not good, too many carrots or too much water can make
you seriously ill. I am trying to get her to understand moderation.
It is kind of like lifting restrictions on food and not
placing "good" and "bad" labels on things.
She spent several weeks questioning me off an on about smoking, and
at first she thought only men smoke. (Not many people in our lives
smoke...not by choice, just by chance, but the ones who do are men.)
So I started pointing out women who smoke. I just want her to see
life as it really is.
So anyway, one day she told me that when she grows up, she wants to
drive a motorcycle and smoke one cigarette a day. I said, "Sounds
cool. Will you take me for a ride on your motorcycle?" She
said, "Sure!" I have heard no mention of cigarettes since. :-)
Tory
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
> I agree. It's really hard! I've heard that said, too. Thatpeople who
> smoke are bad people. I think that's a bit over the top.Yeah, I cringe now when I think about how my christian school
upbringing caused me at age 5 to tell my grandfather repeatedly that
he was going to go to hell for smoking cigarettes. What actually
bothers me more is that my mom never stepped in to knock some sense
into me.
What I have told my daughter about the whole smoking issue (she is
six, and we had these discussions over a year ago) is that smoking is
similar to many other things in life in that too much of it is bad
for you. (Now don't attack me here, I know even a little smoking is
bad for your lungs, but my goal is to de-mystify it.) Too much
sugary food is not good, too many carrots or too much water can make
you seriously ill. I am trying to get her to understand moderation.
It is kind of like lifting restrictions on food and not
placing "good" and "bad" labels on things.
She spent several weeks questioning me off an on about smoking, and
at first she thought only men smoke. (Not many people in our lives
smoke...not by choice, just by chance, but the ones who do are men.)
So I started pointing out women who smoke. I just want her to see
life as it really is.
So anyway, one day she told me that when she grows up, she wants to
drive a motorcycle and smoke one cigarette a day. I said, "Sounds
cool. Will you take me for a ride on your motorcycle?" She
said, "Sure!" I have heard no mention of cigarettes since. :-)
Tory
jmcseals SEALS
<<I think I would also tell my son that there are certain things that he may
do that I might not want him to do, and that I really cannot stop
him. But, I would tell him (and I have told him, in fact) that he is the
one to make choices for himself and for his own reasons, and I will not
judge him on this. We all make our own choices for ourselves. I would hope
that he would base his choices on what *he* wants for himself as opposed to
pressure exerted on him from others, but he should know that I will be open
to him and ready to help him, if he needs me to, in whatever way he wants
me to.>>
See, this really hits home with me. I'm very torn as to how I feel about
fully allowing them the freedom to make their own choices and standing
behind their decisions. That sounds awful, I know. It's so much easier
when they are young and dangerous things aren't so much of an
issue...smoking, drugs, std's, just to rattle off a few. Now, if they were
16, maybe I might be more inclined to want them to make their own decisions.
It just seems like these things are more difficult for them to understand.
(I hope I'm getting this across as I intend.)
I like the idea of giving them information. Insight and examples of *why*
smoking is harmful, explore their reasons as to why they wanted to try it
and then talk about other things they could have done to satisfy those
reasons, *without* smoking. Don't get me wrong, they weren't sitting around
puffing away like chimney's or anything. As far as I know, they all just
tried one puff or so. I don't want to make it a huge to-do but I don't want
it to pass by unnoticed either.
Anyway, I'm working on it. Trying to sort out all the crap in my head about
kids being too young to make well informed decisions, etc. It seems easier
with my 12 year old, but my 6 yr old is the one I'm really struggling with.
I'm actually glad this happened late in the evening, so it didn't have to
loom over us like a black cloud all day. LOL...just caught the pun in that.
<g>
I wish I'd had all this worked out BEFORE it happened! :)
Thanks,
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
do that I might not want him to do, and that I really cannot stop
him. But, I would tell him (and I have told him, in fact) that he is the
one to make choices for himself and for his own reasons, and I will not
judge him on this. We all make our own choices for ourselves. I would hope
that he would base his choices on what *he* wants for himself as opposed to
pressure exerted on him from others, but he should know that I will be open
to him and ready to help him, if he needs me to, in whatever way he wants
me to.>>
See, this really hits home with me. I'm very torn as to how I feel about
fully allowing them the freedom to make their own choices and standing
behind their decisions. That sounds awful, I know. It's so much easier
when they are young and dangerous things aren't so much of an
issue...smoking, drugs, std's, just to rattle off a few. Now, if they were
16, maybe I might be more inclined to want them to make their own decisions.
It just seems like these things are more difficult for them to understand.
(I hope I'm getting this across as I intend.)
I like the idea of giving them information. Insight and examples of *why*
smoking is harmful, explore their reasons as to why they wanted to try it
and then talk about other things they could have done to satisfy those
reasons, *without* smoking. Don't get me wrong, they weren't sitting around
puffing away like chimney's or anything. As far as I know, they all just
tried one puff or so. I don't want to make it a huge to-do but I don't want
it to pass by unnoticed either.
Anyway, I'm working on it. Trying to sort out all the crap in my head about
kids being too young to make well informed decisions, etc. It seems easier
with my 12 year old, but my 6 yr old is the one I'm really struggling with.
I'm actually glad this happened late in the evening, so it didn't have to
loom over us like a black cloud all day. LOL...just caught the pun in that.
<g>
I wish I'd had all this worked out BEFORE it happened! :)
Thanks,
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jmcseals SEALS
<<<So anyway, one day she told me that when she grows up, she wants to
drive a motorcycle and smoke one cigarette a day. I said, "Sounds
cool. Will you take me for a ride on your motorcycle?" She
said, "Sure!" I have heard no mention of cigarettes since. :-)>>
Tory,
Don't you wish everything were that easy! Sounds like you handled it
beautifully! Now to turn the tables....
What if she had said, "I want to smoke one cigarette a day, NOW, at 6??"
What would you say to that?? Nicholette is 6 and knowing her, she'd focus
on the moderation so much that she'd think I was giving her permission to
smoke now! Ugh! It's easier with Haleigh. She has asthma, so the reality
of the damage smoking would cause her is much more vivid and real. But that
Nicholette is one tough cookie. She challenges everything I say! So, I'm
going to have to come up with something very convincing for her. I'm not
trying to turn this into a bunch of what-ifs, I'm just really nervous and
unsure how to approach this with Nic. I'd love to hear what you think!
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
drive a motorcycle and smoke one cigarette a day. I said, "Sounds
cool. Will you take me for a ride on your motorcycle?" She
said, "Sure!" I have heard no mention of cigarettes since. :-)>>
Tory,
Don't you wish everything were that easy! Sounds like you handled it
beautifully! Now to turn the tables....
What if she had said, "I want to smoke one cigarette a day, NOW, at 6??"
What would you say to that?? Nicholette is 6 and knowing her, she'd focus
on the moderation so much that she'd think I was giving her permission to
smoke now! Ugh! It's easier with Haleigh. She has asthma, so the reality
of the damage smoking would cause her is much more vivid and real. But that
Nicholette is one tough cookie. She challenges everything I say! So, I'm
going to have to come up with something very convincing for her. I'm not
trying to turn this into a bunch of what-ifs, I'm just really nervous and
unsure how to approach this with Nic. I'd love to hear what you think!
Jennifer
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Jon and Rue Kream
"AFTER the fact, the girls came and got me and told me
she "made" them try it after she tried it"
I would stress the fact that you're very glad they were honest with you
about it (albeit after the fact). When things like this happen I want my
kids to leave our conversation knowing that our relationship is more
important to me than any 'thing' they do, and that being truthful with each
other is the only way for us to really know and love each other.
As for what else to say, I'd just tell them truthfully how you feel about
smoking, and why. I would talk to them individually, since the situation is
different for each one of them. I'd also talk to them about what they could
do next time they find themselves in a similar situation.
That's all my insomniacal (no, that's not a real word :0)) brain can come up
with. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
she "made" them try it after she tried it"
I would stress the fact that you're very glad they were honest with you
about it (albeit after the fact). When things like this happen I want my
kids to leave our conversation knowing that our relationship is more
important to me than any 'thing' they do, and that being truthful with each
other is the only way for us to really know and love each other.
As for what else to say, I'd just tell them truthfully how you feel about
smoking, and why. I would talk to them individually, since the situation is
different for each one of them. I'd also talk to them about what they could
do next time they find themselves in a similar situation.
That's all my insomniacal (no, that's not a real word :0)) brain can come up
with. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/11/03 3:20:15 AM, jmcseals@... writes:
<< so don't ever let me
catch you going near a cigarette for the rest of your LIFE! >>
I think it's important to point out the message of "catch"! (Even though you
didn't say it. <yeay>) When "catch" is used, it's a totally different message
than "don't do it" (neither is a good choice BTW). "Catch" moves away from
the actual issues, and is almost saying it's ok to do it so long as you're
not caught. (That's not the case, right?) It also means "hide things from me
that you know I don't like". (That's also not the case right?) Therefore,
closing the door on it, while they're possibility off doing it, and keeping
it hidden from you as instructed. "Don't do it", though by itself is not a
good choice either, it at least is about the issue, and you can keep talking
about it from there. Does that make sense?
Anyway, it seems like you handled it fine. I'd just echo the other posts, in
that don't hold back with the info. I have not with my kids, and in fact have
treated cigarettes no different from other drugs when talking about it with
them. Is does make it hard to say it all, and then your dh still smokes!
(Partly why I quit!) Maybe it's a good lesson to them on the hold (addiction)
that it has. I think what HE says to them might be even more important then
you, since he's the one smoking! (As in he can say it's bad and why, and also
say why he still does it anyway.) Lara.......
<< so don't ever let me
catch you going near a cigarette for the rest of your LIFE! >>
I think it's important to point out the message of "catch"! (Even though you
didn't say it. <yeay>) When "catch" is used, it's a totally different message
than "don't do it" (neither is a good choice BTW). "Catch" moves away from
the actual issues, and is almost saying it's ok to do it so long as you're
not caught. (That's not the case, right?) It also means "hide things from me
that you know I don't like". (That's also not the case right?) Therefore,
closing the door on it, while they're possibility off doing it, and keeping
it hidden from you as instructed. "Don't do it", though by itself is not a
good choice either, it at least is about the issue, and you can keep talking
about it from there. Does that make sense?
Anyway, it seems like you handled it fine. I'd just echo the other posts, in
that don't hold back with the info. I have not with my kids, and in fact have
treated cigarettes no different from other drugs when talking about it with
them. Is does make it hard to say it all, and then your dh still smokes!
(Partly why I quit!) Maybe it's a good lesson to them on the hold (addiction)
that it has. I think what HE says to them might be even more important then
you, since he's the one smoking! (As in he can say it's bad and why, and also
say why he still does it anyway.) Lara.......
moonstarshooter
> What if she had said, "I want to smoke one cigarette a day, NOW, at6??"
> What would you say to that?? Nicholette is 6 and knowing her,she'd focus
> on the moderation so much that she'd think I was giving herpermission to
> smoke now! Ugh!Well I guess I am lucky because my daughter (very much UNlike me) is
a rule follower. She wants to know what the rules are, and once she
knows, she is cool with it. So if she were to ask to smoke NOW, I
would tell her that it is against the law to smoke until you are 18.
(Or maybe the law is actually that you just can't BUY them until you
are 18, but for now, it is close enough to reality for her.) So she
would probably just settle it in her mind that she will think about
it again when she is 18.
But that would not have been how I would have reacted as a kid. But
in fact, for as wrong as I was led to believe smoking was, I still
jumped at the chance to do it when I was about 12 or 13. (But much
rebellion had occured during those years, mainly due to my
realization that I had been taught a bunch of crap from a bunch of
hypocrites, and that I wanted to be nothing like them. If smoking is
bad, then by golly that is what I am going to do.)
But I digress...I guess if she were truly hell-bent on smoking at 6,
even if I told her about the law, hmm....would I just let her smoke
one? Not a puff, the whole thing? Is that horrible? I don't really
think she would like it. I have let her try my alcoholic drinks
before, and she really doesn't much like them except the dacquari's,
but only the ones that have so little alcohol they really couldn't do
much to her. For as much as I know smoking is bad for you, I also
know that the "coolness" of the forbidden fruit can lead to much
worse.
So really, that is probably what I would do. Let her smoke one a
day, and count on the fact that it would not last long. But of
course, I would teach her HOW to smoke it the RIGHT way...you know,
really inhaling, not just suck in--blow out. (Cough, hack, cough,
gasp.) I just can't believe she would think it was that great. And
I would think at the younger age, she would be less inclined to
disregard the bad (cough hack) for the "good" (coolness.)
But I also don't have an older child to worry about. But the thing
is, all you can do (or should do, if they are anything like I was) is
tell them the truth about what it does to you and why you wish they
wouldn't do it. If Haleigh is determined to do it, the more
negativity from you, the more she will just be inclined to do it away
from home, or at least not let the younger ones in on it.
I hesitate to even post this, because I am certainly not telling you
that you ought to do what I THINK I would do in the situation. These
are just my first thoughts, and my first inclinations as to what I
would do based on my knowledge of my daughter. Sorry to have
rambled. This is just a pretty tough one.
Tory
moonstarshooter
I want to add to my previous post another reason I feel like I would
go in the direction I said. As mentioned, I started smoking when I
was 12 or 13, just one or two here and there when someone offered
them. On through junior high I would smoke one or two a morning
before school. Once in high school, I just didn't really smoke much
even though I hung out with people who did.
As an adult, I started smoking at a job that I had, mainly to pass
time. (It was in a bar, so I could smoke all night.) Plus I liked
the little buzz I got because I didn't smoke them regularly. But
once it got to where I was smoking 4 a night (during a 5 or 6 hour
time-span) I decided that I didn't want it to become a habit, so I
just stopped. Once in a while I will smoke again, but only maybe 4 a
week at most. (I don't do it in front of my daughter, strangely
enough not so much because I am worried about her seeing me, but more
worried that she would mention it in passing to my
parents...hmmm...still some issues there, huh?)
So I have never had a problem with addiction (to cigarettes or any of
the drugs I have messed around with in the past.) If I had, then I
would most likely have a stronger desire to keep her from doing it.
Tory
go in the direction I said. As mentioned, I started smoking when I
was 12 or 13, just one or two here and there when someone offered
them. On through junior high I would smoke one or two a morning
before school. Once in high school, I just didn't really smoke much
even though I hung out with people who did.
As an adult, I started smoking at a job that I had, mainly to pass
time. (It was in a bar, so I could smoke all night.) Plus I liked
the little buzz I got because I didn't smoke them regularly. But
once it got to where I was smoking 4 a night (during a 5 or 6 hour
time-span) I decided that I didn't want it to become a habit, so I
just stopped. Once in a while I will smoke again, but only maybe 4 a
week at most. (I don't do it in front of my daughter, strangely
enough not so much because I am worried about her seeing me, but more
worried that she would mention it in passing to my
parents...hmmm...still some issues there, huh?)
So I have never had a problem with addiction (to cigarettes or any of
the drugs I have messed around with in the past.) If I had, then I
would most likely have a stronger desire to keep her from doing it.
Tory
jmcseals SEALS
Tory,
Funny you mention it because I did ask if it made them cough. Guess they
didn;t inhale because all the smoke was getting in their eyes and coming out
their noses. (Don't you wish you could be there for moments like that?) I
hadn't even thought of the law thing...DUH! Strangly enough, I think that
alone would deter Nicholette from doing it. (I once got pulled over for a
ticket I fogot about and took a not so nice little trip to jail. Scared the
hell out of her.)
I was a little hesitant to post on this because of my internal conflicts.
What I initially think is rarely ever what I do because I still haven't
gotten over what I hear my family saying in my head. I did *catch* that in
my head talk earlier. That's where I was headed by saying that here. That
I do have those conflicts. One on my shoulder telling me to do what
'everyone' else would do (mainstreamish stuff), and one on the other
shoulder telling me I know there has to be a better way.
Jennifer, sorting this all out for the breaskfast table in the morning...
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Funny you mention it because I did ask if it made them cough. Guess they
didn;t inhale because all the smoke was getting in their eyes and coming out
their noses. (Don't you wish you could be there for moments like that?) I
hadn't even thought of the law thing...DUH! Strangly enough, I think that
alone would deter Nicholette from doing it. (I once got pulled over for a
ticket I fogot about and took a not so nice little trip to jail. Scared the
hell out of her.)
I was a little hesitant to post on this because of my internal conflicts.
What I initially think is rarely ever what I do because I still haven't
gotten over what I hear my family saying in my head. I did *catch* that in
my head talk earlier. That's where I was headed by saying that here. That
I do have those conflicts. One on my shoulder telling me to do what
'everyone' else would do (mainstreamish stuff), and one on the other
shoulder telling me I know there has to be a better way.
Jennifer, sorting this all out for the breaskfast table in the morning...
_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
Nicotine *is* a drug. Maybe use the same reasoning.
Jayn (3) told us that she wanted to be grown up so she could smoke like
our neighbor, who she loves. Uggh! Not that the neighbor smokes while
Jayn is visiting with her, but she has seen her smoking. We told Jayn
that Jackie wants to stop because it is making her sick (she is trying
to quit with the patch again even as we speak) but is finding it hard.
If your kids are pragmatists you might try telling them about the
financial costs also.
Robyn Coburn
<<If this were drugs, it would be so much easier for me to talk
with them about it. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing!>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jayn (3) told us that she wanted to be grown up so she could smoke like
our neighbor, who she loves. Uggh! Not that the neighbor smokes while
Jayn is visiting with her, but she has seen her smoking. We told Jayn
that Jackie wants to stop because it is making her sick (she is trying
to quit with the patch again even as we speak) but is finding it hard.
If your kids are pragmatists you might try telling them about the
financial costs also.
Robyn Coburn
<<If this were drugs, it would be so much easier for me to talk
with them about it. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing!>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Olga
Jennifer,
I really have no good advice. One thought I did have was when
someone mentioned discussing the companies who make all the money off
this stuff. Rent "The Insider" with Russel Crowe (a movie about the
man who testified agaist the drug companies) for you and your oldest
and maybe hubby?? Pretty scary stuff in terms of control and such.
It might change her perspective and maybe that will trickle down to
Nicolette. That way you are not saying it is bad as much as showing
them the behind the scenes information about cigarettes, the
unglamourous side. Good luck!
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], "jmcseals SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
I really have no good advice. One thought I did have was when
someone mentioned discussing the companies who make all the money off
this stuff. Rent "The Insider" with Russel Crowe (a movie about the
man who testified agaist the drug companies) for you and your oldest
and maybe hubby?? Pretty scary stuff in terms of control and such.
It might change her perspective and maybe that will trickle down to
Nicolette. That way you are not saying it is bad as much as showing
them the behind the scenes information about cigarettes, the
unglamourous side. Good luck!
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], "jmcseals SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
> I agree. It's really hard! I've heard that said, too. Thatpeople who
> smoke are bad people. I think that's a bit over the top. I canagree that
> it's a bad habit...and yes, I think it does start out as acuriosity, cool
> thing to try, something to impress your friends, etc. but itbecomes a habit
> so easily. If this were drugs, it would be so much easier for meto talk
> with them about it. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing!
>
> Jennifer
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tammy in MS
here's an old memory:
My Aunt once gave her daughter a pack and had her sit there and smoke them.
This was like 20 years ago. She got through the first 2 and threw up, she
never touched another cigarette..
I'm not saying you should do that..lol. She may not try it anymore now, she
may. Maybe you could say well, I wouldn't let you eat dog poop and get sick
why would I let you smoke a cigarette and get sick...
Nic sounds alot like my Kayla. She used to challenge everything.. now she's
8 and very helpful. I don't know what happened. lol.
tammy t
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, May 11, 2003 00:39:49
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: smoking
<<<So anyway, one day she told me that when she grows up, she wants to
drive a motorcycle and smoke one cigarette a day. I said, "Sounds
cool. Will you take me for a ride on your motorcycle?" She
said, "Sure!" I have heard no mention of cigarettes since. :-)>>
Tory,
Don't you wish everything were that easy! Sounds like you handled it
beautifully! Now to turn the tables....
What if she had said, "I want to smoke one cigarette a day, NOW, at 6??"
What would you say to that?? Nicholette is 6 and knowing her, she'd focus
on the moderation so much that she'd think I was giving her permission to
smoke now! Ugh! It's easier with Haleigh. She has asthma, so the reality
of the damage smoking would cause her is much more vivid and real. But that
Nicholette is one tough cookie. She challenges everything I say! So, I'm
going to have to come up with something very convincing for her. I'm not
trying to turn this into a bunch of what-ifs, I'm just really nervous and
unsure how to approach this with Nic. I'd love to hear what you think!
Jennifer
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My Aunt once gave her daughter a pack and had her sit there and smoke them.
This was like 20 years ago. She got through the first 2 and threw up, she
never touched another cigarette..
I'm not saying you should do that..lol. She may not try it anymore now, she
may. Maybe you could say well, I wouldn't let you eat dog poop and get sick
why would I let you smoke a cigarette and get sick...
Nic sounds alot like my Kayla. She used to challenge everything.. now she's
8 and very helpful. I don't know what happened. lol.
tammy t
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, May 11, 2003 00:39:49
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: smoking
<<<So anyway, one day she told me that when she grows up, she wants to
drive a motorcycle and smoke one cigarette a day. I said, "Sounds
cool. Will you take me for a ride on your motorcycle?" She
said, "Sure!" I have heard no mention of cigarettes since. :-)>>
Tory,
Don't you wish everything were that easy! Sounds like you handled it
beautifully! Now to turn the tables....
What if she had said, "I want to smoke one cigarette a day, NOW, at 6??"
What would you say to that?? Nicholette is 6 and knowing her, she'd focus
on the moderation so much that she'd think I was giving her permission to
smoke now! Ugh! It's easier with Haleigh. She has asthma, so the reality
of the damage smoking would cause her is much more vivid and real. But that
Nicholette is one tough cookie. She challenges everything I say! So, I'm
going to have to come up with something very convincing for her. I'm not
trying to turn this into a bunch of what-ifs, I'm just really nervous and
unsure how to approach this with Nic. I'd love to hear what you think!
Jennifer
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Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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Tammy in MS
--------- I think what HE says to them might be even more important then
you, since he's the one smoking! (As in he can say it's bad and why, and
also
say why he still does it anyway.) Lara.......-----------
I think this is good too.. it may possibly have more of an effect coming
from him.
tammy t
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you, since he's the one smoking! (As in he can say it's bad and why, and
also
say why he still does it anyway.) Lara.......-----------
I think this is good too.. it may possibly have more of an effect coming
from him.
tammy t
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stephanie Elms
Interesting when our philosophies are tested sometimes, huh? As far as the smoking, do you
really think that your 6 yo would really like smoking? I can't really imagine that. I was
a social smoker in college (only occasionally when I had been drinking...we smoked menthols
LOL!) Part of the appeal was doing something "bad". I have to say that I did not like waking
up with smoke breath in the morning. I just can not see what a 6 yo would see as appealing
in smoking...it tastes yucky, makes you cough and smell bad. Kind of scary to think about
trying out that theory though, huh? ;o)
I have been thinking about something similar. My 6 yo seems occasionally curious about
alcohol. It has been mentioned in some books we have read and we do occasionally have
a drink with dinner or in the evening. We have had talks about how it makes people
act different and affects your judgment but that some people like to use it to relax.
He has had sips of beer and did not like it. But he did try some of my Mike's Hard
Lemonade and loved it. Asked for some the next day (we did not have any so I did not
have to figure out what to say). But it got me thinking...would I really let my 6 yo
drink a whole bottle? Would I let him get drunk? I would be comfortable letting older
kids (maybe older then 10 not sure why that age, but that is what comes to mind??) have
some, but 6? But then I would worry about making it too attractive by saying no.
Would a 6 yo like getting drunk? Would it be ok if he did? Or would it scare him? Still
working on this one. For now, I just don't drink Mike's around him. It is not like
we drink that much even so it is not a big deal, but still interesting to ponder. Of course
my 3 yo really liked his sip of beer (and really likes his rescue remedy (which has an
alcohol base)) so we will have to see where that one goes!
The interesting thing is that a month or so ago, Jason found shockwave.com. They have
some really neat games there, but they also have some realistic shooting games. This
was his first intro to these type of games. He found one that I really did not like
but I did not say no. In fact I was getting ready to post a question here about how
to approach it (I was not going to say he could not play it but wanted to try to
figure out how to explain to him what I did not like about it - it was one of those
games where you are behind the gun and go around shooting people who start spurting
blood). But before I could post, I realized that he had stopped playing it. I think
that he only played it a couple of times and has not been interested since....makes
you think....
Stephanie E.
really think that your 6 yo would really like smoking? I can't really imagine that. I was
a social smoker in college (only occasionally when I had been drinking...we smoked menthols
LOL!) Part of the appeal was doing something "bad". I have to say that I did not like waking
up with smoke breath in the morning. I just can not see what a 6 yo would see as appealing
in smoking...it tastes yucky, makes you cough and smell bad. Kind of scary to think about
trying out that theory though, huh? ;o)
I have been thinking about something similar. My 6 yo seems occasionally curious about
alcohol. It has been mentioned in some books we have read and we do occasionally have
a drink with dinner or in the evening. We have had talks about how it makes people
act different and affects your judgment but that some people like to use it to relax.
He has had sips of beer and did not like it. But he did try some of my Mike's Hard
Lemonade and loved it. Asked for some the next day (we did not have any so I did not
have to figure out what to say). But it got me thinking...would I really let my 6 yo
drink a whole bottle? Would I let him get drunk? I would be comfortable letting older
kids (maybe older then 10 not sure why that age, but that is what comes to mind??) have
some, but 6? But then I would worry about making it too attractive by saying no.
Would a 6 yo like getting drunk? Would it be ok if he did? Or would it scare him? Still
working on this one. For now, I just don't drink Mike's around him. It is not like
we drink that much even so it is not a big deal, but still interesting to ponder. Of course
my 3 yo really liked his sip of beer (and really likes his rescue remedy (which has an
alcohol base)) so we will have to see where that one goes!
The interesting thing is that a month or so ago, Jason found shockwave.com. They have
some really neat games there, but they also have some realistic shooting games. This
was his first intro to these type of games. He found one that I really did not like
but I did not say no. In fact I was getting ready to post a question here about how
to approach it (I was not going to say he could not play it but wanted to try to
figure out how to explain to him what I did not like about it - it was one of those
games where you are behind the gun and go around shooting people who start spurting
blood). But before I could post, I realized that he had stopped playing it. I think
that he only played it a couple of times and has not been interested since....makes
you think....
Stephanie E.
jmcseals SEALS
<<Kind of scary to think about trying out that theory though, huh? ;o)>>
YES!! That's the thing! She tried it and wants to do it again. No, I
don't particulary think she would like it, but I don't feel confident that
she wouldn't want to continue for all the glorious (hack hack)
reasons...Daddy smokes, it's COOL, well, guess that sums up her reasons. :)
I didn't really bring it up today, as I had planned. Last night, I touched
on the health factor, bad habits and the danger of using a lighter
unsupervised. I decided, or I should say I really couldn't decide, that for
right now I'm going to leave it at that. I will be more aware of moments to
make points here and there but because *I* still haven't figured out my
stance, I don't want to say something I may regret or have a change of heart
on in two days when I hear that magical answer that truly speaks to me.
It's a tough road.
Jennifer
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YES!! That's the thing! She tried it and wants to do it again. No, I
don't particulary think she would like it, but I don't feel confident that
she wouldn't want to continue for all the glorious (hack hack)
reasons...Daddy smokes, it's COOL, well, guess that sums up her reasons. :)
I didn't really bring it up today, as I had planned. Last night, I touched
on the health factor, bad habits and the danger of using a lighter
unsupervised. I decided, or I should say I really couldn't decide, that for
right now I'm going to leave it at that. I will be more aware of moments to
make points here and there but because *I* still haven't figured out my
stance, I don't want to say something I may regret or have a change of heart
on in two days when I hear that magical answer that truly speaks to me.
It's a tough road.
Jennifer
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In a message dated 5/11/2003 12:08:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
qpwithcheese@... writes:
telling them when they are grown up they are free to make those decisions?
What if it were sex at say 8?
I remember my oldest daughter having an intrigue for cigarettes when she was
five/six. My DH, nor I smoked but her Aunts, Uncles and Grandparents did.
We did discuss how they smell bad, cost a lot of money, and make people sick
and sometimes even die from it.
When she asked me if she could smoke, I told her "not today, maybe tomorrow",
when she would ask the next day "is it tomorrow yet? can I smoke now?" I
would just tell her it's today, we'll talk about your smoking tomorrow. She
soon grew tired of that conversation and took to "smoking" crayons. Of
course it was awkward sometimes for her to reach in her little purse and pull
out a crayon and start puffing on it and tapping off the "ashes". But that
got us through.
I also have to add that we were not homeschooling at the time so this is from
the perspective of a schooled child, but a child interested in smoking.
This child is now 23, doesn't smoke, says she did smoke a couple times in
college but she can't stand the smell and she doesn't allow smoking in her
home, they have to go outside!
Best of luck with your daughter, sometimes we just feel our way through it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
qpwithcheese@... writes:
> "Daddy is a grown up andIs there anything wrong with designating something's as "grown up" things and
>
> he is old enough to make those decisions but you are a child and it is my
> responsibility to protect you from harmful things, so don't ever let me
> catch you going near a cigarette for the rest of your LIFE!" LOL Not the
> approach I want to take. BUT, I'm not willing to just let them smoke
> either. What to do???
>
> Jennfier
>
telling them when they are grown up they are free to make those decisions?
What if it were sex at say 8?
I remember my oldest daughter having an intrigue for cigarettes when she was
five/six. My DH, nor I smoked but her Aunts, Uncles and Grandparents did.
We did discuss how they smell bad, cost a lot of money, and make people sick
and sometimes even die from it.
When she asked me if she could smoke, I told her "not today, maybe tomorrow",
when she would ask the next day "is it tomorrow yet? can I smoke now?" I
would just tell her it's today, we'll talk about your smoking tomorrow. She
soon grew tired of that conversation and took to "smoking" crayons. Of
course it was awkward sometimes for her to reach in her little purse and pull
out a crayon and start puffing on it and tapping off the "ashes". But that
got us through.
I also have to add that we were not homeschooling at the time so this is from
the perspective of a schooled child, but a child interested in smoking.
This child is now 23, doesn't smoke, says she did smoke a couple times in
college but she can't stand the smell and she doesn't allow smoking in her
home, they have to go outside!
Best of luck with your daughter, sometimes we just feel our way through it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/13/03 7:03:40 AM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
<< Is there anything wrong with designating something's as "grown up" things
and
telling them when they are grown up they are free to make those decisions?
What if it were sex at say 8? >>
Do you know of any 8 year olds who want to have sex?
There are adults who want to have sex with 8 year olds. THAT is "a grown up
thing."
It seems better to me to discuss things on their real merits and discussing
what the laws are. Eight year olds cannot legally purchase tobacco.
Parents cannot legally provide their children with tobacco as far as I know.
<<When she asked me if she could smoke, I told her "not today, maybe
tomorrow",
when she would ask the next day "is it tomorrow yet? can I smoke now?" I
would just tell her it's today, we'll talk about your smoking tomorrow. >>
That would irritate the heck out of me. Wouldn't it you?
A teenager is grown in many ways. Some people in their 40s aren't "grown" in
many ways.
Would it be 18 or 21 that was time for someone to decide to smoke?
The problem with saying "It's a grown up thing" is this: If a child is
waiting impatiently to be grown and some things are declared "only for
grownups," then the child will WANT them and count the years, the months,
until he says "To hell with it," and adopts them all to prove he's grown.
If they're described as things only weak-willed people do, or wastes of
money, energy and health used as psychological crutches by some people, or as
things some people do to try to prove they're grown instead of just being
mature, then they won't be as desirable as they might be if they're called
"grown up things."
Sandra
<< Is there anything wrong with designating something's as "grown up" things
and
telling them when they are grown up they are free to make those decisions?
What if it were sex at say 8? >>
Do you know of any 8 year olds who want to have sex?
There are adults who want to have sex with 8 year olds. THAT is "a grown up
thing."
It seems better to me to discuss things on their real merits and discussing
what the laws are. Eight year olds cannot legally purchase tobacco.
Parents cannot legally provide their children with tobacco as far as I know.
<<When she asked me if she could smoke, I told her "not today, maybe
tomorrow",
when she would ask the next day "is it tomorrow yet? can I smoke now?" I
would just tell her it's today, we'll talk about your smoking tomorrow. >>
That would irritate the heck out of me. Wouldn't it you?
A teenager is grown in many ways. Some people in their 40s aren't "grown" in
many ways.
Would it be 18 or 21 that was time for someone to decide to smoke?
The problem with saying "It's a grown up thing" is this: If a child is
waiting impatiently to be grown and some things are declared "only for
grownups," then the child will WANT them and count the years, the months,
until he says "To hell with it," and adopts them all to prove he's grown.
If they're described as things only weak-willed people do, or wastes of
money, energy and health used as psychological crutches by some people, or as
things some people do to try to prove they're grown instead of just being
mature, then they won't be as desirable as they might be if they're called
"grown up things."
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/13/2003 10:09:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<When she asked me if she could smoke, I told her "not today, maybe
tomorrow",
when she would ask the next day "is it tomorrow yet? can I smoke now?" I
would just tell her it's today, we'll talk about your smoking tomorrow. >>
<That would irritate the heck out of me. Wouldn't it you?>
If it would have bothered her I would have thought of something else. Every
time she asked and I said, "well maybe tomorrow", she seemed perfectly
satisfied with that answer. Never once showed any frustration or being at
all bothered by it, just shrugged and decided to play something else. Not
having any cigarettes around probably made it less appealing or at least in
her thoughts less, until she went to her grandparents anyway.
<The problem with saying "It's a grown up thing" is this: If a child is
waiting impatiently to be grown and some things are declared "only for
grownups," then the child will WANT them and count the years, the months,
until he says "To hell with it," and adopts them all to prove he's grown.>
That probably would have been true if this were an issue that carried over
for months or years but it was a passing thing and after I guess a week or
two she no longer asked if she could smoke and she probably forgot all about
it and the allure of waiting to be "grown" to smoke.
<If they're described as things only weak-willed people do, or wastes of
money, energy and health used as psychological crutches by some people, or as
things some people do to try to prove they're grown instead of just being
mature, then they won't be as desirable as they might be if they're called
"grown up things.">
I told her how smelly they were, how expensive they were (wouldn't she rather
have candy or something fun?) and how they made people sick and sometimes
die.
I guess it how we handled it was successful, she didn't smoke as a teen,
never asked, but then my kids didn't really ask permission to do things, we
just talked about their plans, doesn't smoke now as an adult in her own
house.
If it was something that was really really important to her that she kept
asking about for a very long time, I think it would probably have had to be
looked at differently but it was just a passing thought for a minute of time
for her.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Do you know of any 8 year olds who want to have sex?Not any 8 year olds but I do know a ten year old that did/does.
> There are adults who want to have sex with 8 year olds. THAT is "a grown
> up
> thing."
>
<When she asked me if she could smoke, I told her "not today, maybe
tomorrow",
when she would ask the next day "is it tomorrow yet? can I smoke now?" I
would just tell her it's today, we'll talk about your smoking tomorrow. >>
<That would irritate the heck out of me. Wouldn't it you?>
If it would have bothered her I would have thought of something else. Every
time she asked and I said, "well maybe tomorrow", she seemed perfectly
satisfied with that answer. Never once showed any frustration or being at
all bothered by it, just shrugged and decided to play something else. Not
having any cigarettes around probably made it less appealing or at least in
her thoughts less, until she went to her grandparents anyway.
<The problem with saying "It's a grown up thing" is this: If a child is
waiting impatiently to be grown and some things are declared "only for
grownups," then the child will WANT them and count the years, the months,
until he says "To hell with it," and adopts them all to prove he's grown.>
That probably would have been true if this were an issue that carried over
for months or years but it was a passing thing and after I guess a week or
two she no longer asked if she could smoke and she probably forgot all about
it and the allure of waiting to be "grown" to smoke.
<If they're described as things only weak-willed people do, or wastes of
money, energy and health used as psychological crutches by some people, or as
things some people do to try to prove they're grown instead of just being
mature, then they won't be as desirable as they might be if they're called
"grown up things.">
I told her how smelly they were, how expensive they were (wouldn't she rather
have candy or something fun?) and how they made people sick and sometimes
die.
I guess it how we handled it was successful, she didn't smoke as a teen,
never asked, but then my kids didn't really ask permission to do things, we
just talked about their plans, doesn't smoke now as an adult in her own
house.
If it was something that was really really important to her that she kept
asking about for a very long time, I think it would probably have had to be
looked at differently but it was just a passing thought for a minute of time
for her.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/13/03 8:24:50 AM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
<< Not any 8 year olds but I do know a ten year old that did/does. >>
I would guess that child was sexualized by an adult.
I know someone who said her earliest memories were spread on her back in a
treehouse with neighbor boys taking turns. Her male relatives had already
somehow "taught" her that that's how you showed people you liked them.
<<<That would irritate the heck out of me. Wouldn't it you?>
<<If it would have bothered her I would have thought of something else.
Every
time she asked and I said, "well maybe tomorrow", she seemed perfectly
satisfied with that answer. >>
Seems to me like maybe at first she would have been hopeful that you meant
something by it.
Sandra
<< Not any 8 year olds but I do know a ten year old that did/does. >>
I would guess that child was sexualized by an adult.
I know someone who said her earliest memories were spread on her back in a
treehouse with neighbor boys taking turns. Her male relatives had already
somehow "taught" her that that's how you showed people you liked them.
<<<That would irritate the heck out of me. Wouldn't it you?>
<<If it would have bothered her I would have thought of something else.
Every
time she asked and I said, "well maybe tomorrow", she seemed perfectly
satisfied with that answer. >>
Seems to me like maybe at first she would have been hopeful that you meant
something by it.
Sandra
Mary
From: <SandraDodd@...>
<<I would guess that child was sexualized by an adult.
I know someone who said her earliest memories were spread on her back in a
treehouse with neighbor boys taking turns. Her male relatives had already
somehow "taught" her that that's how you showed people you liked them.>>
Certainly not in any kind of defense or anything, but quite a few school
children are having sex of some sort in the 4th and 5th grade. By 6th grade,
quite a few have had sex already. I tend to think that not all those kids
have been sexually abused. I know a girl now that is pregnant. She's 12. I
know this has nothing to do with unschooling and how we parent our children,
and totally different circumstances, but not all sexual abuse either.
Mary B
<<I would guess that child was sexualized by an adult.
I know someone who said her earliest memories were spread on her back in a
treehouse with neighbor boys taking turns. Her male relatives had already
somehow "taught" her that that's how you showed people you liked them.>>
Certainly not in any kind of defense or anything, but quite a few school
children are having sex of some sort in the 4th and 5th grade. By 6th grade,
quite a few have had sex already. I tend to think that not all those kids
have been sexually abused. I know a girl now that is pregnant. She's 12. I
know this has nothing to do with unschooling and how we parent our children,
and totally different circumstances, but not all sexual abuse either.
Mary B
jmcseals SEALS
**Is there anything wrong with designating something's as "grown up" things
and
telling them when they are grown up they are free to make those
decisions?***
You know, I've atually been having a bit of an internal struggle with this.
Especially after reading other people's comments. The topic hasn't come up
again, but my husband and I were talking about it and decided neither of us
are comfortable allowing our kids to smoke. We're just trying to find a way
to talk about it without making it a 'forbidden fruit'. Hopefully, we can
figure it out befor it comes up again. :)
***What if it were sex at say 8?***
Actually, we have already been through this, sort of. None of the kids have
mentioned an interest in sex, as far as actually having it anyway, but we
have always talked about sex in our home. From the beginning, we explained
it as a loving act between adults that love, respect and consent to one
another, although not in such stuffy language. ;) Nicholette is my only
child that ever brings it up but she does tell me she can't wait to be a
grown up so she can have sex and get a baby girl in her tummy with pink
ribbons in her hair. LOL We smile and tell her somehwere, there is a little
boy growing up just like her who wants to be her babies' Daddy when HE'S
grown up and we can't wait to meet him. (She loves that one. <bg>) So
that's actually been pretty simple.
***When she asked me if she could smoke, I told her "not today, maybe
tomorrow",
when she would ask the next day "is it tomorrow yet? can I smoke now?" I
would just tell her it's today, we'll talk about your smoking tomorrow. She
soon grew tired of that conversation and took to "smoking" crayons.
<snip>***
The only problem with this, for me, would be that my kids would be very mad
at me for lying to them and I wouln't blame them. They are aware of what
tomorrow means and I wouldn't want to do anything to break the trust we
have.
***Best of luck with your daughter, sometimes we just feel our way through
it.***
Thanks, I think I made it a much bigger deal than it really was. I said my
little bit of calm peace and it went away. I think that worked out to be
the best for us. I' sure a lot of it had to do with the fact that I told
them I'd needed time to think about it and we would talk tomorrow. (The day
after it happened.) My kids are very in tune with me and know that I'm very
serious if I say that. I think that got the point across more than anything
else I said.
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and
telling them when they are grown up they are free to make those
decisions?***
You know, I've atually been having a bit of an internal struggle with this.
Especially after reading other people's comments. The topic hasn't come up
again, but my husband and I were talking about it and decided neither of us
are comfortable allowing our kids to smoke. We're just trying to find a way
to talk about it without making it a 'forbidden fruit'. Hopefully, we can
figure it out befor it comes up again. :)
***What if it were sex at say 8?***
Actually, we have already been through this, sort of. None of the kids have
mentioned an interest in sex, as far as actually having it anyway, but we
have always talked about sex in our home. From the beginning, we explained
it as a loving act between adults that love, respect and consent to one
another, although not in such stuffy language. ;) Nicholette is my only
child that ever brings it up but she does tell me she can't wait to be a
grown up so she can have sex and get a baby girl in her tummy with pink
ribbons in her hair. LOL We smile and tell her somehwere, there is a little
boy growing up just like her who wants to be her babies' Daddy when HE'S
grown up and we can't wait to meet him. (She loves that one. <bg>) So
that's actually been pretty simple.
***When she asked me if she could smoke, I told her "not today, maybe
tomorrow",
when she would ask the next day "is it tomorrow yet? can I smoke now?" I
would just tell her it's today, we'll talk about your smoking tomorrow. She
soon grew tired of that conversation and took to "smoking" crayons.
<snip>***
The only problem with this, for me, would be that my kids would be very mad
at me for lying to them and I wouln't blame them. They are aware of what
tomorrow means and I wouldn't want to do anything to break the trust we
have.
***Best of luck with your daughter, sometimes we just feel our way through
it.***
Thanks, I think I made it a much bigger deal than it really was. I said my
little bit of calm peace and it went away. I think that worked out to be
the best for us. I' sure a lot of it had to do with the fact that I told
them I'd needed time to think about it and we would talk tomorrow. (The day
after it happened.) My kids are very in tune with me and know that I'm very
serious if I say that. I think that got the point across more than anything
else I said.
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/13/2003 12:06:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:
grade will certainly make you glad you homeschool/unschool your child for yet
another reason.
Some children are abused no doubt but there are some that come to sexuality
early too. Maybe that is a form of abuse in of itself? From neglect?
Exposure to things? I'm not certain but I do know that it's very sad that
such very young children try to incorporate such very complex things into
their lives so early.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummy124@... writes:
> Certainly not in any kind of defense or anything, but quite a few schoolI can say I know this to be true, one visit to the local fifth grade or sixth
> children are having sex of some sort in the 4th and 5th grade. By 6th
> grade,
> quite a few have had sex already. I tend to think that not all those kids
> have been sexually abused. I know a girl now that is pregnant. She's 12. I
> know this has nothing to do with unschooling and how we parent our
> children,
> and totally different circumstances, but not all sexual abuse either.
>
grade will certainly make you glad you homeschool/unschool your child for yet
another reason.
Some children are abused no doubt but there are some that come to sexuality
early too. Maybe that is a form of abuse in of itself? From neglect?
Exposure to things? I'm not certain but I do know that it's very sad that
such very young children try to incorporate such very complex things into
their lives so early.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: <rubyprincesstsg@...>
<<Some children are abused no doubt but there are some that come to
sexuality early too. Maybe that is a form of abuse in of itself? From
neglect?
Exposure to things? I'm not certain but I do know that it's very sad that
such very young children try to incorporate such very complex things into
their lives so early.>>
I think it's probably a combination and also other stuff too. Low self
esteem, emormous pressure from peers and also society to hurry and grow up.
Neglect from parents, not meaning food and shelter type but lack of respect
and even interest.
One thing I do notice quite often is how much homeschoolers seem to act like
kids more than school kids do. They seem to not be in such of a hurry to
grow up and enjoy being younger. I have also noticed that homeschool kids
that do hang around with mostly school kids don't have this quality as much.
I'm not talking about seeming older and more respectful, I'm speaking of
just having fun doing kid stuff.
I have a friend who homeschools and now wants to unschool because she thinks
it just means she doesn't have to do anything. She doesn't do anything with
homeschool groups with her kids. Her children mostly spend all their days
with school children running around the neighborhood. As much as you can
usually pick out homeschool children, you would think hers were public
school kids in a heartbeat.
Mary B
<<Some children are abused no doubt but there are some that come to
sexuality early too. Maybe that is a form of abuse in of itself? From
neglect?
Exposure to things? I'm not certain but I do know that it's very sad that
such very young children try to incorporate such very complex things into
their lives so early.>>
I think it's probably a combination and also other stuff too. Low self
esteem, emormous pressure from peers and also society to hurry and grow up.
Neglect from parents, not meaning food and shelter type but lack of respect
and even interest.
One thing I do notice quite often is how much homeschoolers seem to act like
kids more than school kids do. They seem to not be in such of a hurry to
grow up and enjoy being younger. I have also noticed that homeschool kids
that do hang around with mostly school kids don't have this quality as much.
I'm not talking about seeming older and more respectful, I'm speaking of
just having fun doing kid stuff.
I have a friend who homeschools and now wants to unschool because she thinks
it just means she doesn't have to do anything. She doesn't do anything with
homeschool groups with her kids. Her children mostly spend all their days
with school children running around the neighborhood. As much as you can
usually pick out homeschool children, you would think hers were public
school kids in a heartbeat.
Mary B
Have A Nice Day!
I have also noticed that homeschool kids
that do hang around with mostly school kids don't have this quality as much.
I'm not talking about seeming older and more respectful, I'm speaking of
just having fun doing kid stuff.
<<<snip>>>
Her children mostly spend all their days
with school children running around the neighborhood. As much as you can
usually pick out homeschool children, you would think hers were public
school kids in a heartbeat.
My kids mostly hang out with public schooled kids. And yes, they resemble public school kids in the sense that they dress and talk like public schooled kids do.
There are plenty of homeschool groups out here...its a strong homeschool area. But of all those homeschoolers, very few of them make themselves available just to "hang out". There always too busy doing "schoolwork" or being punished because they "didin't get their schoolwork done" or whatever the kids do togehter had to be worthy enough to be "counted as school".
My kids were feeling bored and lonely because there was nobody to hang out with when I was leary about the ps kids. And when we did hang out with hsers, we always had to be "careful" what we said and how we acted, even in our own home.
Well, since we've given up on the homeschoolers and hang out with the psers, my kids are VERY happy and so am I. My house is overrun with kids, rough language and all, but they are here, they are having fun and I enjoy their company.
I don't agree that they don't like to do fun stuff. They like to do "cool" stuff. What "fun" stuff are you referring to?
Kristen
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that do hang around with mostly school kids don't have this quality as much.
I'm not talking about seeming older and more respectful, I'm speaking of
just having fun doing kid stuff.
<<<snip>>>
Her children mostly spend all their days
with school children running around the neighborhood. As much as you can
usually pick out homeschool children, you would think hers were public
school kids in a heartbeat.
My kids mostly hang out with public schooled kids. And yes, they resemble public school kids in the sense that they dress and talk like public schooled kids do.
There are plenty of homeschool groups out here...its a strong homeschool area. But of all those homeschoolers, very few of them make themselves available just to "hang out". There always too busy doing "schoolwork" or being punished because they "didin't get their schoolwork done" or whatever the kids do togehter had to be worthy enough to be "counted as school".
My kids were feeling bored and lonely because there was nobody to hang out with when I was leary about the ps kids. And when we did hang out with hsers, we always had to be "careful" what we said and how we acted, even in our own home.
Well, since we've given up on the homeschoolers and hang out with the psers, my kids are VERY happy and so am I. My house is overrun with kids, rough language and all, but they are here, they are having fun and I enjoy their company.
I don't agree that they don't like to do fun stuff. They like to do "cool" stuff. What "fun" stuff are you referring to?
Kristen
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: "Have A Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
<<I don't agree that they don't like to do fun stuff. They like to do
"cool" stuff. What "fun" stuff are you referring to?>>
Going to a playground and playing. Ball, tag, hide and seek, police and bad
guys, whatever. And playing with toys like legos and trucks and Barbie's and
dolls. My kids that I am speaking of are 7 and 8. They are in no hurry to
grow up. I see school kids their age only interested in what clothes are
cool, what pop stars are hot and when they can pierce something or wear
makeup. My kids have absolutely no interest in those things and even the
older homeschoolers I know of, (12 and 13) aren't into that either. I also
hear the word bored an awful lot among school kids. A word my kids never
heard of before until they heard it used so much. This is all just my take
on things with what I see and hear every day among school kids and
homeschool kids.
Mary B
<<I don't agree that they don't like to do fun stuff. They like to do
"cool" stuff. What "fun" stuff are you referring to?>>
Going to a playground and playing. Ball, tag, hide and seek, police and bad
guys, whatever. And playing with toys like legos and trucks and Barbie's and
dolls. My kids that I am speaking of are 7 and 8. They are in no hurry to
grow up. I see school kids their age only interested in what clothes are
cool, what pop stars are hot and when they can pierce something or wear
makeup. My kids have absolutely no interest in those things and even the
older homeschoolers I know of, (12 and 13) aren't into that either. I also
hear the word bored an awful lot among school kids. A word my kids never
heard of before until they heard it used so much. This is all just my take
on things with what I see and hear every day among school kids and
homeschool kids.
Mary B
Have A Nice Day!
Oh I see what you are talking about. I guess that just hasn't been my experience.
I wonder if its not necessarily the schools, but whether they feel safe to *be* kids wherever they happen to be.
I have to confess that my 7-8 year old LOVES to play house and plays babies. And she will play barbies sometimes, but she prefers brat dolls instead.
My 11 year old definitely does look and act older than she is but she also has her moments of cuddle time with mom, and just talking and stuff.
They *all* (psers too) play tag in the yard...and this is a cute one: they all got the old play kitchen out last summer and ALL of them played restaurant, even those who were 13 and 14 at the time.
So, maybe its not so much the kids or the schools, but the environment they are in at the moment, or the example of the adults in the environment. I know my best friend runs a rec program in a nearby town, and almost all of the kids are psers. But they all come voluntarily to this program, and suddenly all cliques from school disappear and they play ball, and make crafts, and mix crowds. VERY often the kids tell her that although they really *like* a certain friend, it is not possible for them to be friends outside of the rec program, (in school).
My house has evolved into a kind of rec program like that. Everyone comes over and they play games or play on the computer or watch tv or whatever. The ps friends ask me to play chess with them. And they go outside at night and they all play "flashlight" hide and seek in the summers. Everyone sleds here too, or builds snow stuff.
And I know *my* kids are happy to be homeschooling if only because they can be friends with anyone they want and not worry about what others think on the playground.
Kristen
//////////////////----- Original Message -----
From: Mary
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] smoking
From: "Have A Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
<<I don't agree that they don't like to do fun stuff. They like to do
"cool" stuff. What "fun" stuff are you referring to?>>
Going to a playground and playing. Ball, tag, hide and seek, police and bad
guys, whatever. And playing with toys like legos and trucks and Barbie's and
dolls. My kids that I am speaking of are 7 and 8. They are in no hurry to
grow up. I see school kids their age only interested in what clothes are
cool, what pop stars are hot and when they can pierce something or wear
makeup. My kids have absolutely no interest in those things and even the
older homeschoolers I know of, (12 and 13) aren't into that either. I also
hear the word bored an awful lot among school kids. A word my kids never
heard of before until they heard it used so much. This is all just my take
on things with what I see and hear every day among school kids and
homeschool kids.
Mary B
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wonder if its not necessarily the schools, but whether they feel safe to *be* kids wherever they happen to be.
I have to confess that my 7-8 year old LOVES to play house and plays babies. And she will play barbies sometimes, but she prefers brat dolls instead.
My 11 year old definitely does look and act older than she is but she also has her moments of cuddle time with mom, and just talking and stuff.
They *all* (psers too) play tag in the yard...and this is a cute one: they all got the old play kitchen out last summer and ALL of them played restaurant, even those who were 13 and 14 at the time.
So, maybe its not so much the kids or the schools, but the environment they are in at the moment, or the example of the adults in the environment. I know my best friend runs a rec program in a nearby town, and almost all of the kids are psers. But they all come voluntarily to this program, and suddenly all cliques from school disappear and they play ball, and make crafts, and mix crowds. VERY often the kids tell her that although they really *like* a certain friend, it is not possible for them to be friends outside of the rec program, (in school).
My house has evolved into a kind of rec program like that. Everyone comes over and they play games or play on the computer or watch tv or whatever. The ps friends ask me to play chess with them. And they go outside at night and they all play "flashlight" hide and seek in the summers. Everyone sleds here too, or builds snow stuff.
And I know *my* kids are happy to be homeschooling if only because they can be friends with anyone they want and not worry about what others think on the playground.
Kristen
//////////////////----- Original Message -----
From: Mary
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] smoking
From: "Have A Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
<<I don't agree that they don't like to do fun stuff. They like to do
"cool" stuff. What "fun" stuff are you referring to?>>
Going to a playground and playing. Ball, tag, hide and seek, police and bad
guys, whatever. And playing with toys like legos and trucks and Barbie's and
dolls. My kids that I am speaking of are 7 and 8. They are in no hurry to
grow up. I see school kids their age only interested in what clothes are
cool, what pop stars are hot and when they can pierce something or wear
makeup. My kids have absolutely no interest in those things and even the
older homeschoolers I know of, (12 and 13) aren't into that either. I also
hear the word bored an awful lot among school kids. A word my kids never
heard of before until they heard it used so much. This is all just my take
on things with what I see and hear every day among school kids and
homeschool kids.
Mary B
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]