Battle with candy...
Adam Dealan-de
Here is my situation. I don't know if i fully buy into letting your
child have whatever they want...if that is the radical unschooling
view...which it seems to me to be. I just don't feel comfortable giving
as much candy to my children aged 2 and 4 as they desire. I have tried
that for a day of so and that was all they ate. Since trying this, they
food choices that they accepted and seemed to want has dramatically
decreased. They get very stung out as do I. I would lovew to hear from
others who felt this way but found themselves through this to be
unschooling with food fully.
child have whatever they want...if that is the radical unschooling
view...which it seems to me to be. I just don't feel comfortable giving
as much candy to my children aged 2 and 4 as they desire. I have tried
that for a day of so and that was all they ate. Since trying this, they
food choices that they accepted and seemed to want has dramatically
decreased. They get very stung out as do I. I would lovew to hear from
others who felt this way but found themselves through this to be
unschooling with food fully.
Sandra Dodd
-=-Here is my situation. I don't know if i fully buy into letting your
child have whatever they want...if that is the radical unschooling
view...which it seems to me to be.-=-
Really? You don't know whether you "fully buy in" or not?
It's clear that you don't. :-)
But no one asked you to "buy in." And if you DO consider your beliefs
and make adjustments, it shouldn't be because it's "the radical
unschooling view." It should be because you've seen a flaw in the way
you're doing things now and would prefer to change your stance.
-=- I just don't feel comfortable giving
as much candy to my children aged 2 and 4 as they desire. I have tried
that for a day of so and that was all they ate. -=-
The reason that happened is because you limited it and then lifted the
limit.
Because you restored the limitations (it was "just an experiment," and
a temporary condition) it can be expected to happen exactly that way
the next time you "try it."
The first time, your children probably expected you to put the rules
back in place, so they might have eaten as much as they could before
you shut the door on it again. Your children were right. So the
next time you allow some more candy, they will binge, assuming that
you will once again (as before) say "no more."
Rather than it being parental control or "no control," try just being
more generous and saying "okay" a bit more.
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
-=-I just don't feel comfortable giving
as much candy to my children aged 2 and 4 as they desire.-=-
This is important. Just yesterday on another list I reported part of
a conversation I had had, in which I said "Children don't exist to
make parents feel good." You've chosen to tell us that your children
have a desire (your word) but your comfort is more important. Your
children don't exist to help you be comfortable.
-=-Since trying this, they food choices that they accepted and seemed
to want has dramatically decreased. They get very stung out as do I.-=-
Did you mean to say "strung out"? Did you mean to use a heroin-addict
reference to describe the effect of candy on a toddler, and on yourself?
-=-I would lovew to hear from
others who felt this way but found themselves through this to be
unschooling with food fully.-=-
This discussion comes up several times a year on one discussion or
another, and over that time some of the best parts have been collected
here:
http://sandradodd.com/food
There's a Halloween page I usually point people toward in October, but
this year I forgot and I was in India for Halloween. We did trick or
treat inside the house, with three people stationed behind three doors
with candy. It wasn't quite the same. The party was great, though!
I did the Mario hat and buttons, and brought the overalls from New
Mexico where they're plentiful:
http://sandraindia2010.blogspot.com/2010/10/halloween-party.html
A focus on what is fun and wonderful is better than a focus on
discomfort. Candy can be fun and wonderful. A parent saying "no" and
calling joy "strung out" isn't nearly as fun or as wonderful.
Here's that Halloween page: http://sandradodd.com/eating/halloween
Another good page: http://sandradodd.com/eating/sweets
I hope you'll read that whole section, though, which contains the
happiest discoveries of MANY parents over many years.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
child have whatever they want...if that is the radical unschooling
view...which it seems to me to be.-=-
Really? You don't know whether you "fully buy in" or not?
It's clear that you don't. :-)
But no one asked you to "buy in." And if you DO consider your beliefs
and make adjustments, it shouldn't be because it's "the radical
unschooling view." It should be because you've seen a flaw in the way
you're doing things now and would prefer to change your stance.
-=- I just don't feel comfortable giving
as much candy to my children aged 2 and 4 as they desire. I have tried
that for a day of so and that was all they ate. -=-
The reason that happened is because you limited it and then lifted the
limit.
Because you restored the limitations (it was "just an experiment," and
a temporary condition) it can be expected to happen exactly that way
the next time you "try it."
The first time, your children probably expected you to put the rules
back in place, so they might have eaten as much as they could before
you shut the door on it again. Your children were right. So the
next time you allow some more candy, they will binge, assuming that
you will once again (as before) say "no more."
Rather than it being parental control or "no control," try just being
more generous and saying "okay" a bit more.
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
-=-I just don't feel comfortable giving
as much candy to my children aged 2 and 4 as they desire.-=-
This is important. Just yesterday on another list I reported part of
a conversation I had had, in which I said "Children don't exist to
make parents feel good." You've chosen to tell us that your children
have a desire (your word) but your comfort is more important. Your
children don't exist to help you be comfortable.
-=-Since trying this, they food choices that they accepted and seemed
to want has dramatically decreased. They get very stung out as do I.-=-
Did you mean to say "strung out"? Did you mean to use a heroin-addict
reference to describe the effect of candy on a toddler, and on yourself?
-=-I would lovew to hear from
others who felt this way but found themselves through this to be
unschooling with food fully.-=-
This discussion comes up several times a year on one discussion or
another, and over that time some of the best parts have been collected
here:
http://sandradodd.com/food
There's a Halloween page I usually point people toward in October, but
this year I forgot and I was in India for Halloween. We did trick or
treat inside the house, with three people stationed behind three doors
with candy. It wasn't quite the same. The party was great, though!
I did the Mario hat and buttons, and brought the overalls from New
Mexico where they're plentiful:
http://sandraindia2010.blogspot.com/2010/10/halloween-party.html
A focus on what is fun and wonderful is better than a focus on
discomfort. Candy can be fun and wonderful. A parent saying "no" and
calling joy "strung out" isn't nearly as fun or as wonderful.
Here's that Halloween page: http://sandradodd.com/eating/halloween
Another good page: http://sandradodd.com/eating/sweets
I hope you'll read that whole section, though, which contains the
happiest discoveries of MANY parents over many years.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I meant to mention the title, chosen by the original poster: "
Battle with candy..."
The candy isn't fighting back. It's a battle with fear and control,
if it's a battle at all. But it's not a battle with candy.
Sandra
Battle with candy..."
The candy isn't fighting back. It's a battle with fear and control,
if it's a battle at all. But it's not a battle with candy.
Sandra
Schuyler
A day isn't a trial, it's a party. A party is a very different experience to
saying yes more. It's a small moment in a life. It's a good time, it's a
glorious day, but it doesn't fundamentally change someone's experience with the
world. Or, at least not usually.
When I was early to unschooling the food idea really was a hard one to get my
mind around. I'd trusted the idea that humans were hunter-gatherers who focussed
on fats and sugars as rare good foods for so long that it was hard to see that
it was a point that could be debated. There was a mom on Always Learning who was
testing it out. She had a boy who liked ice cream a lot. Rather than put ice
cream in front of him and say go for it, she started saying yes to his requests.
So, he had ice cream for breakfast, and then ice cream again, and then some
more ice cream. She wrote about having to get a coat on and go out to the
freezer in the garage to get more ice cream. But she kept writing about it. And
over the course of a few days his enjoyment of each succeeding bowl of ice cream
began to wane.
I waited for each instalment. I talked to David. I was fascinated by the idea.
We decided to say yes more. To move slowly, but inexorably, toward a home where
food choice was the norm. There was a day when it seemed all Simon ate was
doughnuts. There were days when I found myself counting the bags of cheese puffs
(small, single serving bags are the norm in the UK) that Linnaea ate. When I
found myself fretting more, growing more nervous I would keep a food diary. Not
publicly, not "let's see what we are eating", but quietly, just writing down
what Simon and Linnaea and I were eating over the course of a week or two or
three. Each time I found that what may have looked like a day of bingeing was a
small part of a bigger picture of balance. A day of doughnuts was followed by a
week without doughnuts. It really made a difference to step back and see more
forest and fewer individual trees. It also helped me to offer more food to them.
Instead of being passive in my role as caregiver, bringing them platters of
food, making sure that bags of cheese puffs weren't the only easy to grab food
in the house, making sure that their choice wasn't just about what they could
grab easily, what would sustain them without pulling them away from what they
were doing. Or, if it was about what they could grab the most easily, making
sure that there were lots of easy to grab options.
It is also really important to remember that there are different food
requirements for growth and development than there are for maintenance and
repair. So, just as a pregnant woman has very different dietary requirements
than a pre-pregnancy woman, so a young child does to an adult. Brain growth
thrives on fats and sugars. The difference between breastmilk for a newborn and
for a toddler can demonstrate that pretty quickly. It isn't just because a
newborn is deriving all of his or her calories from breastmilk, it is also
because they are still developing so much, so quickly. The growth rate is so
steep. What may feel like a very healthy diet to you, what may help you to feel
better and more focussed, may be absolutely sub-par for your young children. It
may help to think about the foods that tasted really good to you as a child and
how much less good they taste to you now. And that isn't simply because children
have more taste buds than adults. Although that does go some way to explaining
why bitter foods like spinach aren't always well loved by young children,
although Linnaea and Simon both really liked and like it. Simon used to eat
bowls of raw spinach. Your change in taste and preference is about what you need
to thrive. It has changed.
One last idea. Simon and Linnaea have a relationship with food that is
completely different to mine. I'm getting there, but I still have a few hang
ups. They eat what they enjoy without worrying about the emotional aspect of the
food. We went trick or treating on Halloween. Simon didn't want to get the
candy, so he just walked the route. Linnaea wanted the whole experience and we
walked maybe 3 miles or so in a little town and she got a small bag of
goodies--the UK just isn't trick or treating ready. I think she's eaten 3 or 4
things from the bag. And that was on the first night. I don't think she's even
opened it since. I, on the other hand, would have eaten everything within a day
or two and then tried to find where my brother had hidden his stash. I used to
sit on the floor and pick all the marshmallows out of Lucky Charms cereal. Or
live off of poptarts, or eat all the candy I was supposed to sell for a
school fund-raiser and have to buy it out of my paper route money. Food isn't
about the limits and loading and emotions. Food is what you are hungry for, what
you enjoy. Most often Simon or Linnaea ask for things like risotto or phat Thai
or samosas or ham sandwiches. They don't tend to ask for sweet things. Although
they did come up to bed last night very keen to get supplies in so that they
could bake pies. They want pears and raspberries and cherries and apples and
whip cream and they want root beer floats to accompany.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Adam Dealan-de <adam@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 2 November, 2010 21:25:54
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Battle with candy...
Here is my situation. I don't know if i fully buy into letting your
child have whatever they want...if that is the radical unschooling
view...which it seems to me to be. I just don't feel comfortable giving
as much candy to my children aged 2 and 4 as they desire. I have tried
that for a day of so and that was all they ate. Since trying this, they
food choices that they accepted and seemed to want has dramatically
decreased. They get very stung out as do I. I would lovew to hear from
others who felt this way but found themselves through this to be
unschooling with food fully.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
saying yes more. It's a small moment in a life. It's a good time, it's a
glorious day, but it doesn't fundamentally change someone's experience with the
world. Or, at least not usually.
When I was early to unschooling the food idea really was a hard one to get my
mind around. I'd trusted the idea that humans were hunter-gatherers who focussed
on fats and sugars as rare good foods for so long that it was hard to see that
it was a point that could be debated. There was a mom on Always Learning who was
testing it out. She had a boy who liked ice cream a lot. Rather than put ice
cream in front of him and say go for it, she started saying yes to his requests.
So, he had ice cream for breakfast, and then ice cream again, and then some
more ice cream. She wrote about having to get a coat on and go out to the
freezer in the garage to get more ice cream. But she kept writing about it. And
over the course of a few days his enjoyment of each succeeding bowl of ice cream
began to wane.
I waited for each instalment. I talked to David. I was fascinated by the idea.
We decided to say yes more. To move slowly, but inexorably, toward a home where
food choice was the norm. There was a day when it seemed all Simon ate was
doughnuts. There were days when I found myself counting the bags of cheese puffs
(small, single serving bags are the norm in the UK) that Linnaea ate. When I
found myself fretting more, growing more nervous I would keep a food diary. Not
publicly, not "let's see what we are eating", but quietly, just writing down
what Simon and Linnaea and I were eating over the course of a week or two or
three. Each time I found that what may have looked like a day of bingeing was a
small part of a bigger picture of balance. A day of doughnuts was followed by a
week without doughnuts. It really made a difference to step back and see more
forest and fewer individual trees. It also helped me to offer more food to them.
Instead of being passive in my role as caregiver, bringing them platters of
food, making sure that bags of cheese puffs weren't the only easy to grab food
in the house, making sure that their choice wasn't just about what they could
grab easily, what would sustain them without pulling them away from what they
were doing. Or, if it was about what they could grab the most easily, making
sure that there were lots of easy to grab options.
It is also really important to remember that there are different food
requirements for growth and development than there are for maintenance and
repair. So, just as a pregnant woman has very different dietary requirements
than a pre-pregnancy woman, so a young child does to an adult. Brain growth
thrives on fats and sugars. The difference between breastmilk for a newborn and
for a toddler can demonstrate that pretty quickly. It isn't just because a
newborn is deriving all of his or her calories from breastmilk, it is also
because they are still developing so much, so quickly. The growth rate is so
steep. What may feel like a very healthy diet to you, what may help you to feel
better and more focussed, may be absolutely sub-par for your young children. It
may help to think about the foods that tasted really good to you as a child and
how much less good they taste to you now. And that isn't simply because children
have more taste buds than adults. Although that does go some way to explaining
why bitter foods like spinach aren't always well loved by young children,
although Linnaea and Simon both really liked and like it. Simon used to eat
bowls of raw spinach. Your change in taste and preference is about what you need
to thrive. It has changed.
One last idea. Simon and Linnaea have a relationship with food that is
completely different to mine. I'm getting there, but I still have a few hang
ups. They eat what they enjoy without worrying about the emotional aspect of the
food. We went trick or treating on Halloween. Simon didn't want to get the
candy, so he just walked the route. Linnaea wanted the whole experience and we
walked maybe 3 miles or so in a little town and she got a small bag of
goodies--the UK just isn't trick or treating ready. I think she's eaten 3 or 4
things from the bag. And that was on the first night. I don't think she's even
opened it since. I, on the other hand, would have eaten everything within a day
or two and then tried to find where my brother had hidden his stash. I used to
sit on the floor and pick all the marshmallows out of Lucky Charms cereal. Or
live off of poptarts, or eat all the candy I was supposed to sell for a
school fund-raiser and have to buy it out of my paper route money. Food isn't
about the limits and loading and emotions. Food is what you are hungry for, what
you enjoy. Most often Simon or Linnaea ask for things like risotto or phat Thai
or samosas or ham sandwiches. They don't tend to ask for sweet things. Although
they did come up to bed last night very keen to get supplies in so that they
could bake pies. They want pears and raspberries and cherries and apples and
whip cream and they want root beer floats to accompany.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Adam Dealan-de <adam@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 2 November, 2010 21:25:54
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Battle with candy...
Here is my situation. I don't know if i fully buy into letting your
child have whatever they want...if that is the radical unschooling
view...which it seems to me to be. I just don't feel comfortable giving
as much candy to my children aged 2 and 4 as they desire. I have tried
that for a day of so and that was all they ate. Since trying this, they
food choices that they accepted and seemed to want has dramatically
decreased. They get very stung out as do I. I would lovew to hear from
others who felt this way but found themselves through this to be
unschooling with food fully.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Nov 2, 2010, at 5:25 PM, Adam Dealan-de wrote:
parents do -- it's natural to try to shape what's being written into
rules.
But unschooling is:
Great relationships
Joyful living and learning
Some of the principles that support that are:
Trust
Respect
Kindness
Compassion
Helpfulness
Having someone help you get what you want, is joyful. Even for
adults :-) Having someone stand between you and what you want tends to
make people angry.
But there is no rule that says "Give your child everything they ask
for."
There isn't even a rule that says "Always do what makes your child
happiest."
What there are are thoughtful choices. And in order to make thoughtful
choices it takes examination of fears, it takes understanding human
nature, it takes a knowledge of what builds and tears down
relationships between people, it takes an understanding of children's
innate expectations of us, it takes seeing the world through your
children's understanding and needs.
That's a lot of knowledge and understanding just to answer the
question: "Do I let my kids eat all the candy they want?" ;-) *But*
what's great about it, is that all the knowledge and understanding
apply to every question with kids, not just candy.
You shouldn't just hand your kids candy and say go at it if you're
full of fear and full of a need to have them choose only as much as
you'd choose for them. What that says, if they're sensitive to body
language which kids often are, is "I don't care any more."
To let go of the fear, read about unschoolers experiences with free
access to food. Find out what really happens rather than what parents
fear will happen. Find out why the transition from control to freedom
can sometimes can look like conventional parents are right that food
needs controlled ;-)
Often the discussions about food, sleep, tv, violence and so forth
read as if radical unschoolers values towards those are just
different. We're either just ignorant of the "facts" or we just don't
care about our kids health and safety. It's easy hand a kid a pack of
Doritos when you don't know what's in them and haven't read the
effects! ;-)
But in fact, unschoolers are way more likely to have stepped back away
from the issues to look at them objectively and to see them in the
light of growing better relationships and living life more joyfully.
It's not a knee jerk rejection or a decision to be blind to the
"evidence" that supports people's fears. It a decision to really take
the fear out and examine it to see if the "facts" support what really
happens in unschooling homes. To really dig into the practices and see
what the causes and effects are for unschoolers.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I don't know if i fully buy into letting yourComing to unschooling from a rules based point of view -- as most
> child have whatever they want...if that is the radical unschooling
> view...which it seems to me to be.
parents do -- it's natural to try to shape what's being written into
rules.
But unschooling is:
Great relationships
Joyful living and learning
Some of the principles that support that are:
Trust
Respect
Kindness
Compassion
Helpfulness
Having someone help you get what you want, is joyful. Even for
adults :-) Having someone stand between you and what you want tends to
make people angry.
But there is no rule that says "Give your child everything they ask
for."
There isn't even a rule that says "Always do what makes your child
happiest."
What there are are thoughtful choices. And in order to make thoughtful
choices it takes examination of fears, it takes understanding human
nature, it takes a knowledge of what builds and tears down
relationships between people, it takes an understanding of children's
innate expectations of us, it takes seeing the world through your
children's understanding and needs.
That's a lot of knowledge and understanding just to answer the
question: "Do I let my kids eat all the candy they want?" ;-) *But*
what's great about it, is that all the knowledge and understanding
apply to every question with kids, not just candy.
You shouldn't just hand your kids candy and say go at it if you're
full of fear and full of a need to have them choose only as much as
you'd choose for them. What that says, if they're sensitive to body
language which kids often are, is "I don't care any more."
To let go of the fear, read about unschoolers experiences with free
access to food. Find out what really happens rather than what parents
fear will happen. Find out why the transition from control to freedom
can sometimes can look like conventional parents are right that food
needs controlled ;-)
Often the discussions about food, sleep, tv, violence and so forth
read as if radical unschoolers values towards those are just
different. We're either just ignorant of the "facts" or we just don't
care about our kids health and safety. It's easy hand a kid a pack of
Doritos when you don't know what's in them and haven't read the
effects! ;-)
But in fact, unschoolers are way more likely to have stepped back away
from the issues to look at them objectively and to see them in the
light of growing better relationships and living life more joyfully.
It's not a knee jerk rejection or a decision to be blind to the
"evidence" that supports people's fears. It a decision to really take
the fear out and examine it to see if the "facts" support what really
happens in unschooling homes. To really dig into the practices and see
what the causes and effects are for unschoolers.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rachael
When I grew up I had very limited access to candy. My brother was quite ill and his special diet (which included daily cod liver oil) was given to me as well. The only time I had access to sweets was when I performed, or went to concerts and there was a reception. I was also the only kid there who had their plate overflowing with everything and anything I could put on it. Often at my house I would find empty candy wrappers and ice cream containers which I was told (by my mother) were from long ago
she "didn't know how they got there." Years later I found that she too had had a constricted diet and hid the food she ate from us.
Jump forward to this last Halloween and the party my children attended the day before (all of us attended). When we walked through the door the first thing I noticed was the cake, pizza, and chocolate everywhere. So apparently did many of the other kids who came through the door (we belong to one group which is unschooled/homeschooled difference mainly being restrictions on bedtimes, food, TV. etc.) My kids (who have had free access to food since they were born), said "no mom we don't want that, we want to play," despite the fact they had just been complaining about hunger 30 seconds earlier in the car. I sat and watched while other kids were made to eat a certain number of pieces of pizza, or vegetables before they could have the cake, or chocolate. (as if pizza is any better really!). Finally about two hours into the party, my eldest ( 5 1/2 ) ran over and asked for food. What he chose to eat was a large plate of tomatoes and snap peas. Parents asked me how I got him to do this (I am thinking maybe they didn't notice that my youngest (4)had already eaten a few chocolate ghouls without me getting upset...)
My point is, my children have had a lot of exposure to many foods. They have foods they like, and those they do not like. I have never forced them into trying a food they were not interested in trying. I would not want someone forcing me to try something I thought looked disgusting. Even though we now have a large shopping bag full of candy from trick or treating they are not diving into it (like I would have) as if it is the best thing in the world. It is just another part of food. Not more important. I think allowing them to make their own food choices has been the best thing I could have done for them because they will not have the baggage that I did (and my mom) attached to it.
Oh after the piñata broke the kids helped gather the candy but refused to take any home because they said they didn't need any. (Their words, not mine).
Rachael, Shaun, Kean (5 ½ ) and Kai (4).
Jump forward to this last Halloween and the party my children attended the day before (all of us attended). When we walked through the door the first thing I noticed was the cake, pizza, and chocolate everywhere. So apparently did many of the other kids who came through the door (we belong to one group which is unschooled/homeschooled difference mainly being restrictions on bedtimes, food, TV. etc.) My kids (who have had free access to food since they were born), said "no mom we don't want that, we want to play," despite the fact they had just been complaining about hunger 30 seconds earlier in the car. I sat and watched while other kids were made to eat a certain number of pieces of pizza, or vegetables before they could have the cake, or chocolate. (as if pizza is any better really!). Finally about two hours into the party, my eldest ( 5 1/2 ) ran over and asked for food. What he chose to eat was a large plate of tomatoes and snap peas. Parents asked me how I got him to do this (I am thinking maybe they didn't notice that my youngest (4)had already eaten a few chocolate ghouls without me getting upset...)
My point is, my children have had a lot of exposure to many foods. They have foods they like, and those they do not like. I have never forced them into trying a food they were not interested in trying. I would not want someone forcing me to try something I thought looked disgusting. Even though we now have a large shopping bag full of candy from trick or treating they are not diving into it (like I would have) as if it is the best thing in the world. It is just another part of food. Not more important. I think allowing them to make their own food choices has been the best thing I could have done for them because they will not have the baggage that I did (and my mom) attached to it.
Oh after the piñata broke the kids helped gather the candy but refused to take any home because they said they didn't need any. (Their words, not mine).
Rachael, Shaun, Kean (5 ½ ) and Kai (4).
Sandra Dodd
-=-. Finally about two hours into the party, my eldest ( 5 1/2 ) ran
over and asked for food. What he chose to eat was a large plate of
tomatoes and snap peas. Parents asked me how I got him to do this� -=-
That post was beautiful, and I added it to http://sandradodd.com/eating/sweets
I've seen it happen many times, and people have asked me "How do you
get them to do that?"
I didn't "get them to do that." I prevented their preference for
sugar by allowing them to have all they wanted. And "all they wanted"
was never very much.
The problem with people who restrict sugar (or TV, or play, or
computer games or singing, or reading...) is that they have imagined
it will never end if it starts. "If you give them an inch, they'll
take a mile." Or worse, people have chose to write things like this
about their own children:
I have a son who'd eat flour and sugar all the time.
if there is junk in the house my 3 yo will eat that and nothing else
if i let him
I do know that my son would eat trash and dead birds if I let him, so
in that way I am not permissive. (the mother of a 22 month old wrote
that in 2007
I can tell you that if my children could do WHATEVER they wanted they
would be wild. My 3 yr old would eat until he pukes and my 4 yr old
would get into so much trouble...
If left to his own devices, my son would eat sugar all day.
If left on their own, they will see nothing wrong with eating junk
food all day.
He will choose to go without food and just eat sweets if allowed.
My son would subsist on sweets if I didn't occasionally intervene and
tell him that he's free to graze on "junk food" after he eats
nutritious foods (fruits, veggies, etc.).
I hope the parents who wrote those things are ashamed they ever
thought such things now. Either they've changed their ways and their
dire predictions didn't come true, or they clung to their beliefs and
their children are likely to be those who fill their plates up with
candy as soon as they get to a Halloween party.
http://sandradodd.com/ifilet
http://www.sandradodd.com/t/economics
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
over and asked for food. What he chose to eat was a large plate of
tomatoes and snap peas. Parents asked me how I got him to do this� -=-
That post was beautiful, and I added it to http://sandradodd.com/eating/sweets
I've seen it happen many times, and people have asked me "How do you
get them to do that?"
I didn't "get them to do that." I prevented their preference for
sugar by allowing them to have all they wanted. And "all they wanted"
was never very much.
The problem with people who restrict sugar (or TV, or play, or
computer games or singing, or reading...) is that they have imagined
it will never end if it starts. "If you give them an inch, they'll
take a mile." Or worse, people have chose to write things like this
about their own children:
I have a son who'd eat flour and sugar all the time.
if there is junk in the house my 3 yo will eat that and nothing else
if i let him
I do know that my son would eat trash and dead birds if I let him, so
in that way I am not permissive. (the mother of a 22 month old wrote
that in 2007
I can tell you that if my children could do WHATEVER they wanted they
would be wild. My 3 yr old would eat until he pukes and my 4 yr old
would get into so much trouble...
If left to his own devices, my son would eat sugar all day.
If left on their own, they will see nothing wrong with eating junk
food all day.
He will choose to go without food and just eat sweets if allowed.
My son would subsist on sweets if I didn't occasionally intervene and
tell him that he's free to graze on "junk food" after he eats
nutritious foods (fruits, veggies, etc.).
I hope the parents who wrote those things are ashamed they ever
thought such things now. Either they've changed their ways and their
dire predictions didn't come true, or they clung to their beliefs and
their children are likely to be those who fill their plates up with
candy as soon as they get to a Halloween party.
http://sandradodd.com/ifilet
http://www.sandradodd.com/t/economics
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
julesmiel
Hi, parent of two here, ages 5 & 2, craving some unschooling discussion after a computer hiatus.
--- In [email protected], Adam Dealan-de <adam@...> wrote:
> I just don't feel comfortable giving as much candy to my children aged 2 and 4 as they desire. I have tried
> that for a day of so and that was all they ate. Since trying this, they
> food choices that they accepted and seemed to want has dramatically
> decreased. They get very stung out as do I. I would lovew to hear from
> others who felt this way but found themselves through this to be
> unschooling with food fully.
I find it's nice to get reassurance when trying something new. My kids have always had free food choice. I think because we don't make a big deal about things, things are therefore not a big deal.
I've noticed that what people say about sugar or caffeine amping kids up and making them crazy doesn't seem to apply to us. Makes me wonder how much expectation and assumption affects our experience.
Food interests arise here just like toy interests arise. Sometimes life becomes all about that interest for a while. We've had mac-n-cheese, ice cream, and soda phases here, to name a few.
The ice cream journey happened when my son was three. I think it was ice cream about five or six times a day for a few days, then ice cream 2-3 times a day for a few weeks, then ice cream daily, usually once, for about a month. Now ice cream one a week or once per month, or maybe we forget about it for a few months.
Some phases are pretty impressive, like the cheese ball phase. I did not know the body of a small child could contain that much! No commentary from us about "you're going to get sick," and no getting sick happening. I do remember my eyes bugging out.
Watching food has taught me a lot about getting what I expect. When I don't expect ill effects, they don't seem to happen, not that I can always control what I expect.
Oh, and I still do have that healthy/not healthy dividing line in my head. I don't share that out loud with my kids, but I'm aware of its presence. I put the stuff in the "healthy" category out for them, and they eat it or not. I'd say they usually eat it and sometimes not at all.
Julie
Sandra Dodd
I feel like responding with links today. Some wonderful things were written by Julie, and she didn't add links.
-=-I find it's nice to get reassurance when trying something new. My kids have always had free food choice. I think because we don't make a big deal about things, things are therefore not a big deal. -=-
http://sandradodd.com/t/economics
It says TV, but it uses food examples, and applies to anything.
-=-I've noticed that what people say about sugar or caffeine amping kids up and making them crazy doesn't seem to apply to us. Makes me wonder how much expectation and assumption affects our experience.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/myths
(first link, about sugar)
-=-Watching food has taught me a lot about getting what I expect. When I don't expect ill effects, they don't seem to happen, not that I can always control what I expect. -=-
Even when a mom does expect ill effects, they probably don't happen. In my mother's antagonistic way, she frequently cursed me with the "If you do X, Y is going to happen, and don't come crying to me." I did X, Y did NOT happen, and she was one of the last people I would have gone to even if I did need comfort.
When someone entitles a topic something like "Battle with candy..." I figure the mother is up for a fight.
I seriously doubt that the candy was fighting back.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-I find it's nice to get reassurance when trying something new. My kids have always had free food choice. I think because we don't make a big deal about things, things are therefore not a big deal. -=-
http://sandradodd.com/t/economics
It says TV, but it uses food examples, and applies to anything.
-=-I've noticed that what people say about sugar or caffeine amping kids up and making them crazy doesn't seem to apply to us. Makes me wonder how much expectation and assumption affects our experience.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/myths
(first link, about sugar)
-=-Watching food has taught me a lot about getting what I expect. When I don't expect ill effects, they don't seem to happen, not that I can always control what I expect. -=-
Even when a mom does expect ill effects, they probably don't happen. In my mother's antagonistic way, she frequently cursed me with the "If you do X, Y is going to happen, and don't come crying to me." I did X, Y did NOT happen, and she was one of the last people I would have gone to even if I did need comfort.
When someone entitles a topic something like "Battle with candy..." I figure the mother is up for a fight.
I seriously doubt that the candy was fighting back.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Glena Ferguson
I always have candy at my house. Probably way more candy than the average household. My nephew who is 10 always takes a gallon ziploc home filled to the brim with candy he finds around at my house. My children (now grown) were always allowed candy and it more often than not got tossed months after Halloween, Easter, any big candy event. Fast forward to raising grandchildren. Three girls, the oldest two are 4 and the youngest is 17 months. They've all had candy. They all like candy. The baby is kind love crazy with the candy, but it's still new to her of course.
Valentines Day just came. Their Granddaddy gave each little girl a half pound box of minature chocolates (about half the normal size of a boxed chocolate). I let each girl open theres and I opened the baby's for her and let her choose. She dug in with both hands, stuffing her little cheeks with chocolates, nodding her head in approval and delight. The big girls ate two pieces each and closed up their heart boxes. Anna stood in front of hers with chocolate spilling out the edges of her mouth and having a wonderful time.
Her mom later asked me how much I "let" Anna eat. I told her she probably ate slightly less than half of the half pound box. She demanded I check and see how much see actually ate (thinking it was much more than that since I just gave her the box). Anna, the 17 month old crazy lover of candy had eaten FOUR PIECES before she was done for the day.
We are nearly a week out from Valentines Day, we still have plenty of chocolate left in ther boxes. A couple days Anna has wanted her box and ate a couple chocolates and then walked away. They know it will be there when they want it, they don't have to eat it uncontrollably until it's all gone and then wish for more. It's just a part of life.
I have had children who've come to parties unattended who ate and ate and ate candy/sweets until they did actually throw up. I've been chidded by parents for "letting" them eat that much. I don't know at what point I should demand they stop really. I've never had to do that with my own children or my granddaughters.
I think like anything, if it's readily available children can and will set their own limits. I also don't experience that hyper, craziness that some claim their children exibit when they have anything with sugar. Maybe those children are just giddy/hyper with delight that they've finally gotten some of the forbidden sugar instead of a real chemical reaction in their bodies?
I'm just trying to say it WILL work, your child will NOT eat only sweets the rest of their lives if you let them. If you try to control those things, they will want them more than ever it seems by the children I've seen who don't get sugar or have it rationed to them.
glena
-----Original Message-----
From: julesmiel <julesmiel@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, Feb 19, 2011 4:57 am
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Battle with candy...
Hi, parent of two here, ages 5 & 2, craving some unschooling discussion after a computer hiatus.
Valentines Day just came. Their Granddaddy gave each little girl a half pound box of minature chocolates (about half the normal size of a boxed chocolate). I let each girl open theres and I opened the baby's for her and let her choose. She dug in with both hands, stuffing her little cheeks with chocolates, nodding her head in approval and delight. The big girls ate two pieces each and closed up their heart boxes. Anna stood in front of hers with chocolate spilling out the edges of her mouth and having a wonderful time.
Her mom later asked me how much I "let" Anna eat. I told her she probably ate slightly less than half of the half pound box. She demanded I check and see how much see actually ate (thinking it was much more than that since I just gave her the box). Anna, the 17 month old crazy lover of candy had eaten FOUR PIECES before she was done for the day.
We are nearly a week out from Valentines Day, we still have plenty of chocolate left in ther boxes. A couple days Anna has wanted her box and ate a couple chocolates and then walked away. They know it will be there when they want it, they don't have to eat it uncontrollably until it's all gone and then wish for more. It's just a part of life.
I have had children who've come to parties unattended who ate and ate and ate candy/sweets until they did actually throw up. I've been chidded by parents for "letting" them eat that much. I don't know at what point I should demand they stop really. I've never had to do that with my own children or my granddaughters.
I think like anything, if it's readily available children can and will set their own limits. I also don't experience that hyper, craziness that some claim their children exibit when they have anything with sugar. Maybe those children are just giddy/hyper with delight that they've finally gotten some of the forbidden sugar instead of a real chemical reaction in their bodies?
I'm just trying to say it WILL work, your child will NOT eat only sweets the rest of their lives if you let them. If you try to control those things, they will want them more than ever it seems by the children I've seen who don't get sugar or have it rationed to them.
glena
-----Original Message-----
From: julesmiel <julesmiel@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, Feb 19, 2011 4:57 am
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Battle with candy...
Hi, parent of two here, ages 5 & 2, craving some unschooling discussion after a computer hiatus.
--- In [email protected], Adam Dealan-de <adam@...> wrote:
> I just don't feel comfortable giving as much candy to my children aged 2 and 4 as they desire. I have tried
> that for a day of so and that was all they ate. Since trying this, they
> food choices that they accepted and seemed to want has dramatically
> decreased. They get very stung out as do I. I would lovew to hear from
> others who felt this way but found themselves through this to be
> unschooling with food fully.
I find it's nice to get reassurance when trying something new. My kids have always had free food choice. I think because we don't make a big deal about things, things are therefore not a big deal.
I've noticed that what people say about sugar or caffeine amping kids up and making them crazy doesn't seem to apply to us. Makes me wonder how much expectation and assumption affects our experience.
Food interests arise here just like toy interests arise. Sometimes life becomes all about that interest for a while. We've had mac-n-cheese, ice cream, and soda phases here, to name a few.
The ice cream journey happened when my son was three. I think it was ice cream about five or six times a day for a few days, then ice cream 2-3 times a day for a few weeks, then ice cream daily, usually once, for about a month. Now ice cream one a week or once per month, or maybe we forget about it for a few months.
Some phases are pretty impressive, like the cheese ball phase. I did not know the body of a small child could contain that much! No commentary from us about "you're going to get sick," and no getting sick happening. I do remember my eyes bugging out.
Watching food has taught me a lot about getting what I expect. When I don't expect ill effects, they don't seem to happen, not that I can always control what I expect.
Oh, and I still do have that healthy/not healthy dividing line in my head. I don't share that out loud with my kids, but I'm aware of its presence. I put the stuff in the "healthy" category out for them, and they eat it or not. I'd say they usually eat it and sometimes not at all.
Julie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]