deanabrown1

5 weeks ago I started homeschooling our 9year old daughter. I wanted
to take an unschooling approach but am having a very difficult time
getting through the day.

My daughter is very strongwilled and very artistic. She is highly
hands on type of person. I find trying to teach each class becomes
extremely boring. Each class I have a book for and it seems like she
doesnt listen to all the reading and to be honest this isnt what I
pictured homeschooling to be.

She loves Jesus but shows extreme boredom when reading bible stories
and it seems like we are doing more text book reading then fun
stuff. I wanted homeschooling to be fun to her and me not boring and
a burden.

She loves online games but I get tired of her wanting to spend so
much time on them. She helps with chores which is a good thing but
it takes alot of reminding.

I also have a 2 year old in the house and I find I am having him sit
in front of the tv most of the day when I am trying to teach his
sister. I feel so overwhelmed because that isnt what I want for my
son either.

I really need some advise I am struggling so much and if school were
more fun maybe she would pay more attention and actually absorb some
stuff.

Her dad comes home everyday and asks her what she learned in
homeschool that day and she never has anything to tell him which
makes my efforts feel useless. I also notice we have to spend 875
hours a year on homeschooling but it seems we only do about 4 hours a
day which would never get us to the 875 mark unless we schooled 12
months out of a year.

How do you ensure they are learning what they need to for their grade
level each day?

Please Help

Frustrated Mom
Deana

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 16, 2006, at 10:52 AM, deanabrown1 wrote:

> 5 weeks ago I started homeschooling our 9year old daughter. I wanted
> to take an unschooling approach but am having a very difficult time
> getting through the day.


If you want to take an unschooling approach, stop any and all OTHER
approach immediately. Let your daughter have a vacation, let her
play and read and sleep all she wants. Take her to lunch or the
movies but don't talk about homeschooling or learning or any such thing.

-=-
She loves Jesus but shows extreme boredom when reading bible stories
and it seems like we are doing more text book reading then fun
stuff. -=-

Don't do any reading right now, especially if it seems the least bit
schoolish. Don't read until she misses it and requests it.

-=-I wanted homeschooling to be fun to her and me not boring and
a burden. -=-

Unschooling can be that. Here are some short accounts of inspiring
days of many families:
http://sandradodd.com/typical

-=-She loves online games but I get tired of her wanting to spend so
much time on them. -=-

Your mood and attitude should have nothing to do with it. Find
something YOU want to do while she's doing that. She isn't playing
games to energize or amuse you. Your boredom is irrelevant and
burdensome and shows you need a hobby of your own!

http://sandradodd.com/videogames

-=-She helps with chores which is a good thing but
it takes alot of reminding.-=-

http://sandradodd.com/chores
If it takes a lot of reminding, you could take another direction
entirely.

-=-I also have a 2 year old in the house and I find I am having him sit
in front of the tv most of the day when I am trying to teach his
sister. -=-

He is not choosing to sit there? You are "having him" do it?
If you stop trying to teach his sister, but find ways to live happily
with your children instead, all your stated problems will be solved
in a heartbeat.

-=-I really need some advise I am struggling so much and if school were
more fun maybe she would pay more attention and actually absorb some
stuff.-=-

You cannot have school and also be an unschooler.

-=-Her dad comes home everyday and asks her what she learned in
homeschool that day and she never has anything to tell him which
makes my efforts feel useless.-=-

Same thing kids at school say: "nothing."
So ask your husband to stop asking, and then stop doing school.

-=-I also notice we have to spend 875
hours a year on homeschooling but it seems we only do about 4 hours a
day which would never get us to the 875 mark unless we schooled 12
months out of a year.-=-

Blah blah blah blah blah.
Stop looking at those numbers. Do a math problem for real. How many
waking hours are in a year? If you play and laugh and watch DVDs
together and listen to music and sing along, and go on hikes and camp
out in the den (or the yard, if it's not too cold) and build things
and cook and play with puppets, and you tell stories and paint and
color and go to thrift stores and play video games and build with
blocks and play with toy cars, how much time is left over?

Your children will spend MUCH more then four hours a day learning.

-=-How do you ensure they are learning what they need to for their grade
level each day?
-=-

I know how to ensure that they don't want to learn, don't want to be
read to, don't want to hang out with mom, and wish they were in
school instead. You've figured out some of that too.

I also know how to ensure that they learn without even knowing they
did, that they LOVE to be with their family, and they're curious and
happy.

You're asking the wrong questions.

Read here:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
and follow the links
and
http://sandradodd.com/checklists

Also http://sandradodd.com/wordswords

Sandra

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 16, 2006, at 12:52 PM, deanabrown1 wrote:

> I wanted
> to take an unschooling approach but am having a very difficult time
> getting through the day.

What you're doing isn't unschooling so -- to be honest :-) -- it's
why you're having problems!

> I find trying to teach each class becomes
> extremely boring. Each class I have a book for and it seems like she
> doesnt listen to all the reading and to be honest this isnt what I
> pictured homeschooling to be.

For many people it *is* what homeschooling is.

But it doesn't have to be.

Textbooks are used in classrooms not because they're awesome ways to
learn but because they're efficient ways for one person to impose a
specific set of *testable* knowledge on 30 kids. If we were to list
all the ways there are to learn in order of how effective they are,
the teacher imposing information through a textbook way would be
pretty far down the list. But, as I said, cost per student is
relatively low.

Unless you're planning on teaching 30 kids there's no reason to use
inferior ways of learning!

> She loves Jesus but shows extreme boredom when reading bible stories
> and it seems like we are doing more text book reading then fun
> stuff. I wanted homeschooling to be fun to her and me not boring and
> a burden.

The easiest way to fix that is to put aside the textbooks.

If you feel you need to teach religion I can't help you there. There
are, though, Christian unschooling lists that will let you see how
others incorporate the Bible into their unschooling lives without
turning it into teaching and lessons. Try the lists at:

http://sandradodd.com/lists/other

> She loves online games but I get tired of her wanting to spend so
> much time on them.

If you had the choice between pulling an acre full of weeds with
tweezers and reading a new book by your favorite author how much time
would you spend reading?

> She helps with chores which is a good thing but
> it takes alot of reminding.

And how long would your husband have to wait for you to get outside
and pull the weeds with the tweezers?

If he was totally convinced that it was important for you to pull the
weeds with the tweezers, is there a way he could convince you that it
was important too so that you would set aside the things you thought
were important?

> I also have a 2 year old in the house and I find I am having him sit
> in front of the tv most of the day when I am trying to teach his
> sister. I feel so overwhelmed because that isnt what I want for my
> son either.

You won't need to put him aside when you unschool because learning is
part of living and he's part of her life too :-)

There will still be times when she'll appreciate some alone time with
you to do a project or just read a book uninterrupted, but not
because you want her to learn and he's interfering.

> I really need some advise I am struggling so much and if school were
> more fun maybe she would pay more attention and actually absorb some
> stuff.

You and millions of teachers and parents have said the same thing for
decades!

Imagine for the next 12 years your husband would decide what you
should spend your days learning about, say for this year it's
Mongolian history, Engine rebuilding, Chinese language, and abacus
work. And, though he's totally convinced that what he chooses is the
most important stuff for you, you aren't interested and can't
understand why you should be learning it. All he does is repeat that
it's important and one day you'll understand. And that's what you
have to look forward to for the next 12 years.

How could he make it more interesting? How could it be less of a
struggle for him (and for you)? If you come up with the magic formula
for that you'll probably make lots of money because schools will be
beating your door down ;-)

The only difference between the above scenario and school is that it
would be hard to find others who agreed with your husband that the
list of things is vitally important and it is easy to find people who
*think* what's learned in school is vitally important.

But unschoolers aren't doing anything that looks like school, aren't
learning things in any particular order, and they're turning out
fine. They can go onto college. They can get jobs.

My daughter had no formal math but is sitting in on her father's
college algebra class and doing just fine at 14. Her math has been
video games, art programs, grocery stores, "How long until?"
questions, games, sports statistics and so on. (They did do some fun
algebra a couple of years ago but Carl says as far as he can tell it
didn't stick and it appears as though she's seeing it for the first
time.) That's because she's been *using* numbers all her life for
real purposes. She understands how numbers work. Kids in school are
being taught abstractions about numbers that they aren't using and --
after sitting through confusing math classes -- don't want to and
often avoid using. Math and lots of other subjects in school are like
memorizing Spanish words and sentence structure without ever hearing
the language or using it. It's just stuff that goes in to be stored
until it might be used one day. But, of course, after that process
kids don't want to and often don't have any interest in anything that
might use it. (That's not a universal occurrence but kids who do well
in school and eagerly move onto college do that *in spite of* what
they put up with in school.)

> Her dad comes home everyday and asks her what she learned in
> homeschool that day and she never has anything to tell him which

Ask school kids that question and they give the same answer!

Though, honestly, if you ask many unschooled kids that question,
you'll get that answer too ;-)

A better question, a more authentic question since it's what you
might ask another adult, is "What did you do today?"

> I also notice we have to spend 875
> hours a year on homeschooling but it seems we only do about 4 hours a
> day which would never get us to the 875 mark unless we schooled 12
> months out of a year.

Unschooling is about living life and pursuing interests in a rich
environment. Learning happens as a side effect of that. So in
essence, unschooling happens for all hours they're awake 7 days a
week, 52 weeks a year.

It *won't* look like school learning. It *will* look like playing and
being interested in things and exploring and living life.

> How do you ensure they are learning what they need to for their grade
> level each day?

Unschooling is living like school doesn't exist. In which case there
is no grade level to keep up with.

That sounds scary because when kids *in school* "fall behind" the
effects are often kids falling further and further behind. But that
happens because school is like a train. If a child pauses on the
platform to check out the flowers, the train isn't going to wait. It
takes off and the child needs to run to catch up with it.

With unschooling, it's more like mom walking along side her child as
he explores, helping him reach what he's trying to get that's out of
his reach, waiting patiently as he explores what fascinates him
(which can be online games!) Without the train taking off, there's no
such thing as behind.

There's lots to be learned about unschooling here, at the forums at
http://www.unschooling.info, at http://sandradodd.com and at my
website down below my name.

Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions:
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Blog of writing prompts for speculative fiction writers:
http://dragonwritingprompts.blogsome.com/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deana Brown

-=-She loves online games but I get tired of her wanting to spend so
much time on them. -=-

Your mood and attitude should have nothing to do with it. Find
something YOU want to do while she's doing that. She isn't playing
games to energize or amuse you. Your boredom is irrelevant and
burdensome and shows you need a hobby of your own!


------------------

I have many hobbies of my own I just feel like I am being a bad parent
letting her spend too much time on online roleplaying games and tv. My
husband is also stressing me out because he doesnt understand
Unschooling and thinks at home school should be structured with the
american flag and text book courses. Any ideas on how to convince my
husband unschooling is better and any ways to feeling like I am not a
failure mom by letting her do what society says is wrong.

Deana


Sandra Dodd wrote:

>
> On Feb 16, 2006, at 10:52 AM, deanabrown1 wrote:
>
> > 5 weeks ago I started homeschooling our 9year old daughter. I wanted
> > to take an unschooling approach but am having a very difficult time
> > getting through the day.
>
>
> If you want to take an unschooling approach, stop any and all OTHER
> approach immediately. Let your daughter have a vacation, let her
> play and read and sleep all she wants. Take her to lunch or the
> movies but don't talk about homeschooling or learning or any such thing.
>
> -=-
> She loves Jesus but shows extreme boredom when reading bible stories
> and it seems like we are doing more text book reading then fun
> stuff. -=-
>
> Don't do any reading right now, especially if it seems the least bit
> schoolish. Don't read until she misses it and requests it.
>
> -=-I wanted homeschooling to be fun to her and me not boring and
> a burden. -=-
>
> Unschooling can be that. Here are some short accounts of inspiring
> days of many families:
> http://sandradodd.com/typical
>
> -=-She loves online games but I get tired of her wanting to spend so
> much time on them. -=-
>
> Your mood and attitude should have nothing to do with it. Find
> something YOU want to do while she's doing that. She isn't playing
> games to energize or amuse you. Your boredom is irrelevant and
> burdensome and shows you need a hobby of your own!
>
> http://sandradodd.com/videogames
>
> -=-She helps with chores which is a good thing but
> it takes alot of reminding.-=-
>
> http://sandradodd.com/chores
> If it takes a lot of reminding, you could take another direction
> entirely.
>
> -=-I also have a 2 year old in the house and I find I am having him sit
> in front of the tv most of the day when I am trying to teach his
> sister. -=-
>
> He is not choosing to sit there? You are "having him" do it?
> If you stop trying to teach his sister, but find ways to live happily
> with your children instead, all your stated problems will be solved
> in a heartbeat.
>
> -=-I really need some advise I am struggling so much and if school were
> more fun maybe she would pay more attention and actually absorb some
> stuff.-=-
>
> You cannot have school and also be an unschooler.
>
> -=-Her dad comes home everyday and asks her what she learned in
> homeschool that day and she never has anything to tell him which
> makes my efforts feel useless.-=-
>
> Same thing kids at school say: "nothing."
> So ask your husband to stop asking, and then stop doing school.
>
> -=-I also notice we have to spend 875
> hours a year on homeschooling but it seems we only do about 4 hours a
> day which would never get us to the 875 mark unless we schooled 12
> months out of a year.-=-
>
> Blah blah blah blah blah.
> Stop looking at those numbers. Do a math problem for real. How many
> waking hours are in a year? If you play and laugh and watch DVDs
> together and listen to music and sing along, and go on hikes and camp
> out in the den (or the yard, if it's not too cold) and build things
> and cook and play with puppets, and you tell stories and paint and
> color and go to thrift stores and play video games and build with
> blocks and play with toy cars, how much time is left over?
>
> Your children will spend MUCH more then four hours a day learning.
>
> -=-How do you ensure they are learning what they need to for their grade
> level each day?
> -=-
>
> I know how to ensure that they don't want to learn, don't want to be
> read to, don't want to hang out with mom, and wish they were in
> school instead. You've figured out some of that too.
>
> I also know how to ensure that they learn without even knowing they
> did, that they LOVE to be with their family, and they're curious and
> happy.
>
> You're asking the wrong questions.
>
> Read here:
> http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
> and follow the links
> and
> http://sandradodd.com/checklists
>
> Also http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> <http://www.unschooling.info>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Graduate school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=XeERtAmMH6xOclFlfF3kXw>
> High school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=89oOLkTPWnhxf__b2u72QA>
> Home school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=1aW-X2S2ZokW3qzZ8RgBsQ>
>
> Middle school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Middle+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=ekWG86FHE6rjFjd8jaZHOw>
> New york school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=New+york+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=aSJE8BjHS18knvLinwtebQ>
> School education in california
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=School+education+in+california&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=gkGybS6R2TNc7Ffa1FldiA>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Deana Brown

Thank you all for your advice. This really helps me understand
unschooling better. Now just to get my husband to understand it as
well. The other day we took a day off and she told her dad how much fun
she had but then when the kids were in bed he scolded me for not
teaching that day. so this won't be easy to get him to understand

Deana

>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion>" on the web.
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> <http://www.unschooling.info>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Graduate school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=XeERtAmMH6xOclFlfF3kXw>
> High school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=89oOLkTPWnhxf__b2u72QA>
> Home school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=1aW-X2S2ZokW3qzZ8RgBsQ>
>
> Middle school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Middle+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=ekWG86FHE6rjFjd8jaZHOw>
> New york school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=New+york+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=aSJE8BjHS18knvLinwtebQ>
> School education in california
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=School+education+in+california&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=gkGybS6R2TNc7Ffa1FldiA>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 16, 2006, at 5:01 PM, Deana Brown wrote:

> I just feel like I am being a bad parent
> letting her spend too much time on online roleplaying games and tv.


Please read the links
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
and the links from the links

http://sandradodd.com/tv

Have a Nice Day!

One of the things you have to do for your own peace of mind is *accept* the fact that if you choose to unschool, learning is probably *not* going to look like school, and thats *ok*.

You really can't have it both ways unless your child is so inclined. Your child is *not* going to learn the same kinds of things in the same order as schooled kids. But your child might learn many *other* new and interesting things that schooled kids never learn.

The world is soooooo much bigger than what the school is even *able* to offer. Who on earth decided that "social studies" was important to put in school curriculum anyway?

And who decided that "math" had to be learned in a linear fashion? What schools call "math" is actually a foreign language. True Mathematics is a SCIENCE and all of what we know about Mathematics was discovered in much the same way as things we know in the sciences.

Truly, most of what we know as "normal" kind of school is just "tradition" based on the status quo. Its not really based on any real research. And what little research there is hasn't really even begun to look at free and independent learners in childhood. There are some, but they are drowned out by the status quo. And unfortunately too few people actually question the status quo.

First *you* have to be convinced that it works, and that its ok if it doesn't look like anything traditional. Then you can start helping your husband understand it.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Deana Brown
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] New to Unschooling Need some advise


-=-She loves online games but I get tired of her wanting to spend so
much time on them. -=-

Your mood and attitude should have nothing to do with it. Find
something YOU want to do while she's doing that. She isn't playing
games to energize or amuse you. Your boredom is irrelevant and
burdensome and shows you need a hobby of your own!


------------------

I have many hobbies of my own I just feel like I am being a bad parent
letting her spend too much time on online roleplaying games and tv. My
husband is also stressing me out because he doesnt understand
Unschooling and thinks at home school should be structured with the
american flag and text book courses. Any ideas on how to convince my
husband unschooling is better and any ways to feeling like I am not a
failure mom by letting her do what society says is wrong.

Deana


Sandra Dodd wrote:

>
> On Feb 16, 2006, at 10:52 AM, deanabrown1 wrote:
>
> > 5 weeks ago I started homeschooling our 9year old daughter. I wanted
> > to take an unschooling approach but am having a very difficult time
> > getting through the day.
>
>
> If you want to take an unschooling approach, stop any and all OTHER
> approach immediately. Let your daughter have a vacation, let her
> play and read and sleep all she wants. Take her to lunch or the
> movies but don't talk about homeschooling or learning or any such thing.
>
> -=-
> She loves Jesus but shows extreme boredom when reading bible stories
> and it seems like we are doing more text book reading then fun
> stuff. -=-
>
> Don't do any reading right now, especially if it seems the least bit
> schoolish. Don't read until she misses it and requests it.
>
> -=-I wanted homeschooling to be fun to her and me not boring and
> a burden. -=-
>
> Unschooling can be that. Here are some short accounts of inspiring
> days of many families:
> http://sandradodd.com/typical
>
> -=-She loves online games but I get tired of her wanting to spend so
> much time on them. -=-
>
> Your mood and attitude should have nothing to do with it. Find
> something YOU want to do while she's doing that. She isn't playing
> games to energize or amuse you. Your boredom is irrelevant and
> burdensome and shows you need a hobby of your own!
>
> http://sandradodd.com/videogames
>
> -=-She helps with chores which is a good thing but
> it takes alot of reminding.-=-
>
> http://sandradodd.com/chores
> If it takes a lot of reminding, you could take another direction
> entirely.
>
> -=-I also have a 2 year old in the house and I find I am having him sit
> in front of the tv most of the day when I am trying to teach his
> sister. -=-
>
> He is not choosing to sit there? You are "having him" do it?
> If you stop trying to teach his sister, but find ways to live happily
> with your children instead, all your stated problems will be solved
> in a heartbeat.
>
> -=-I really need some advise I am struggling so much and if school were
> more fun maybe she would pay more attention and actually absorb some
> stuff.-=-
>
> You cannot have school and also be an unschooler.
>
> -=-Her dad comes home everyday and asks her what she learned in
> homeschool that day and she never has anything to tell him which
> makes my efforts feel useless.-=-
>
> Same thing kids at school say: "nothing."
> So ask your husband to stop asking, and then stop doing school.
>
> -=-I also notice we have to spend 875
> hours a year on homeschooling but it seems we only do about 4 hours a
> day which would never get us to the 875 mark unless we schooled 12
> months out of a year.-=-
>
> Blah blah blah blah blah.
> Stop looking at those numbers. Do a math problem for real. How many
> waking hours are in a year? If you play and laugh and watch DVDs
> together and listen to music and sing along, and go on hikes and camp
> out in the den (or the yard, if it's not too cold) and build things
> and cook and play with puppets, and you tell stories and paint and
> color and go to thrift stores and play video games and build with
> blocks and play with toy cars, how much time is left over?
>
> Your children will spend MUCH more then four hours a day learning.
>
> -=-How do you ensure they are learning what they need to for their grade
> level each day?
> -=-
>
> I know how to ensure that they don't want to learn, don't want to be
> read to, don't want to hang out with mom, and wish they were in
> school instead. You've figured out some of that too.
>
> I also know how to ensure that they learn without even knowing they
> did, that they LOVE to be with their family, and they're curious and
> happy.
>
> You're asking the wrong questions.
>
> Read here:
> http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
> and follow the links
> and
> http://sandradodd.com/checklists
>
> Also http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> <http://www.unschooling.info>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Graduate school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=XeERtAmMH6xOclFlfF3kXw>
> High school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=89oOLkTPWnhxf__b2u72QA>
> Home school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=1aW-X2S2ZokW3qzZ8RgBsQ>
>
> Middle school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Middle+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=ekWG86FHE6rjFjd8jaZHOw>
> New york school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=New+york+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=aSJE8BjHS18knvLinwtebQ>
> School education in california
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=School+education+in+california&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=gkGybS6R2TNc7Ffa1FldiA>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>




"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: <http://www.unschooling.info>



SPONSORED LINKS Graduate school education High school education Home school education
Middle school education New york school education School education in california


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.10/262 - Release Date: 2/16/2006


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tracey Inman

>>I have many hobbies of my own I just feel like I am being a bad parent
letting her spend too much time on online roleplaying games and tv.<<

You are missing the point of unschooling. So much learning takes place
during games and t.v.


>> My husband is also stressing me out because he doesnt understand
Unschooling and thinks at home school should be structured with the
american flag and text book courses. Any ideas on how to convince my
husband unschooling is better<<

Have you and your husband done any reading together about unschooling? He
can't have an opinion about something he knows nothing about. (I am assuming
here) My recommendation is for both of you to first of all, RELAX! Then
saturate yourselves with information about unschooling. Talk about it with
one another.

>>and any ways to feeling like I am not a
failure mom by letting her do what society says is wrong.<<

Forget society! What is best for you and your family is really all that
matters. When my dh and I decided to unschool, the stress in our family
just evaporated. I am not going to tell you there won't be moments of "am I
really doing o.k." but they are few once you make the commitment to be a
radical unschooler. Know why you are doing what you are doing. Our
relationship with our girls is incredible. I hear so many parents wanting
time away from their kids and for my dh and me that is just foreign to us.
We love time together with our girls. To the average person our days
wouldn't look educational. But my dh and I are constantly amazed at what
our girls teach us! It took my girls over a year to find their passions
once we left the school system. I am so glad I trusted our decision and let
them bloom.

Personally, I think I would be a failure if I dictated to them what they had
to do and not give them the freedom to be the person God created them to be.
I sometimes wonder how different my life would be if I had been given the
opportunity my girls have.

Deana, stick around and read, read, read. There are some really great
people in this group with a whole lot more years of wisdom than I have.
Commit to take the next month and just enjoy your children.

Enjoy the journey!

~Tracey I. ~~ mom to Rachael (13) & Madison (10)

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 16, 2006, at 7:56 PM, Have a Nice Day! wrote:

> Who on earth decided that "social studies" was important to put in
> school curriculum anyway?

If I were designing a curriculum it would have lots of social
studies. We're not talking about curriculum anyway, but kids who
learn from the world around them can't help but learn all the kinds
of things that school calls "social studies"—where people live, what
they do, what families are good for and how they operate, what
governments do for people, how communities are organized, what might
make one person or place "richer" than another, what languages are
good for and the fact that not all people use the same one...
Calling it "social studies" is a school construct. Separating it
from history and English and music is an oddity of school. But the
"material," and the "subject matter" is the fabric of life itself.

-=-What schools call "math" is actually a foreign language.-=-

It's a traditional notation for something natural.
Music isn't a foreign language, but musical notation is a kind of
written language.
They're both notation, as taught formally. The REAL music and math
don't have to be written down, but school can't teach and test it
without it being in writing.

-=-Truly, most of what we know as "normal" kind of school is just
"tradition" based on the status quo. Its not really based on any
real research.-=-

What they do is based on a ton of research, but it is in and of
schools, and based on the assumption that school is an
inevitability. It doesn't apply to us.

It would be better not to talk about school at all, but when it IS
brought up, fallacy doesn't help.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

You'll probably need to ease into it gradually, and as you yourself
have real examples in your own life of natural learning, both you and
your husband can come to understand it.

There's a book called The Unschooling Handbook that might help him
know it's a real thing. Rushing in too fast will only give you
something to fight about and could lead to failure, divorce, ugly
stress, fear.

Go steadily and easily, not all freakishly of a sudden.

Unschooling is a whole-family project.

Sandra


On Feb 16, 2006, at 7:24 PM, Deana Brown wrote:

> Thank you all for your advice. This really helps me understand
> unschooling better. Now just to get my husband to understand it as
> well. The other day we took a day off and she told her dad how
> much fun
> she had but then when the kids were in bed he scolded me for not
> teaching that day. so this won't be easy to get him to understand

Schuyler Waynforth

> On Feb 16, 2006, at 5:01 PM, Deana Brown wrote:
>
> > I just feel like I am being a bad parent
> > letting her spend too much time on online roleplaying games and tv.


This isn't about video games, but is about a similar moment of feeling
like life needed to be more difficult. Day before yesterday Linnaea
(5) and I were watching clips from the Mythbusters shark week on
Dicoverychannel.com (England seems to be way behind in the series) and
moved on to watching things from Shark week. At some point Simon (8)
wandered over and snuggled on my lap in the too small chair we have in
front of the computer as we watched videos about sharks in general and
Greenland Sharks (with the renoting that Iceland is green and
Greenland is icy) and Great Whites and at some point Simon said he
wanted to be a "shark handler". He wanted to capture and raise sharks
and take them around and show them to other people to help raise
awareness about sharks. I suggested that what he might mean is a
marine biologist. And on the tail of saying that I could feel rising
up inside of me this desire to talk about how hard that is to become a
marine biologist. How many years of study it takes and then how hard
it is to find a job. And as I pushed that voice down, the doubting,
the nagging, the desire to quell his enthusiasm voice, I could hear my
own mother telling me, when I was 12 and completely enamored with Jane
Goodall and wanting oh so much to become a primatologist, that there
just aren't any jobs in primatology and that it was something outside
the bounds of realism to suppose that I could do such a thing. And I
said to myself that he doesn't have to be a marine biologist, he can
just love sharks and we can get a fish tank and we've got some cool
shark books around the house that I can find and put out in the next
few days or weeks and we've been talking about setting up an aquarium
and sharks are just fish and, and, and... All the while this was
going on in my head Linnaea was asking Simon if his wife would be
willing to stay home with the children while he was a shark handler
and Simon said he thought that his job would let him be at home quite
a bit and he asked me if I thought he could get paid for having a tank
full of sharks at home that he studied and I said I wasn't sure, and
he said it might be just a hobby.

It is easy to think that life must be hard. It is easy to look at
your children playing, enjoying themselves and question how being
happy could possibly be instructive. It isn't bad parenting to stop
yourself from saying or acting in negative ways about the things that
make your children light up with joy. It is the best kind of parenting.

Schuyler

Robyn Coburn

<<<<< It is easy to think that life must be hard. It is easy to look at
your children playing, enjoying themselves and question how being
happy could possibly be instructive. It isn't bad parenting to stop
yourself from saying or acting in negative ways about the things that
make your children light up with joy. It is the best kind of parenting. >>>>

I wasn't really following this thread particularly, so I almost skipped
reading this post. Then I noticed that is was Schuyler who always has
something insightful to say, so I read it.

When I got to this final paragraph I was so very glad that I had. What a
beautiful expression of this idea.

I have had moments of struggle because what lights my dd with joy is
Barbie's, and the ones she loves now are getting to be the pricey ones.
There is always another Barbie to add to the collection - precisely why they
keep making ever more beautiful ones I suppose. We are now pushing close to
200 of them, including similar dolls like Disney Princesses that are
definitely a second tier of affection. Sometimes I have moments of "when
will she have enough?"

However I have become convinced that for Jayn and for the present, Barbie is
the conduit to all knowledge. Presently she is playing with a long elastic
cord attached doing pulley and pendulum experiments with her new Sandy (from
Grease) doll. Earlier we were happy that the dvd of Grease arrived on the
same day as the doll. We watched that and I relived some high school
memories of seeing it when it came out.

Jayn has just learnt, from a Barbie Collector magazine, that there is an
annual convention where people make dioramas for their dolls and enter them
in competition - something she has begun doing for fun recently. Oh joy, oh
rapture, oh when is the next one and how much will it cost us? We'll have to
find a way to get to it. Gracious - it's right here in Los Angeles this year
in July! What price heaven for a little girl? Less than I feared.

Robyn L. Coburn

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.10/263 - Release Date: 2/16/2006

Deana Brown

thank you for your story, it has broden my perspective entirely and
makes me feel a lot more hopefull that maybe she is learning on her own.

As far as video games, my husband and I have played Everquest, Starwars
galaxies, City of Heroes, Dungeon Seige, World of Warcraft, etc.... for
7 years, We now only play Everquest and our daughter has her own
account of Everquest as well. She gets so excited about the game just
like me and my husband do but I get up every 10 mins while playing to
take care of something around the house, sure I wish I could sit for an
hour without any interuption. So when I see her play for 3 4 5 hours it
stresses me cause I wonder if its healthy for her not to be up doing
other things as well. Maybe its my own insecurities and anxieties from
being fed lines of bull that nothing is productive unless moms are doing
5 hundred things at one time. I am on anxiety meds for that to be
honest and have droven myself insane. I guess I have forgotten how to
relax and enjoy life, I feel like I am doing something bad when I am
playing instead of working and scold myself on the inside.

Other unschoolers have told me video games and tv are fine and a couple
have said NO WAY turn off the tv for the two year old. Limit video
games to a half hour a day. My goodness if I did that I would go insane
of trying to keep them occupied all day.

Deana


Deana Schuyler Waynforth wrote:

>
> > On Feb 16, 2006, at 5:01 PM, Deana Brown wrote:
> >
> > > I just feel like I am being a bad parent
> > > letting her spend too much time on online roleplaying games and tv.
>
> It is easy to think that life must be hard. It is easy to look at
> your children playing, enjoying themselves and question how being
> happy could possibly be instructive. It isn't bad parenting to stop
> yourself from saying or acting in negative ways about the things that
> make your children light up with joy. It is the best kind of parenting.
>
> Schuyler
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> <http://www.unschooling.info>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Graduate school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=XeERtAmMH6xOclFlfF3kXw>
> High school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=89oOLkTPWnhxf__b2u72QA>
> Home school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=1aW-X2S2ZokW3qzZ8RgBsQ>
>
> Middle school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Middle+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=ekWG86FHE6rjFjd8jaZHOw>
> New york school education
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=New+york+school+education&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=aSJE8BjHS18knvLinwtebQ>
> School education in california
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=School+education+in+california&w1=Graduate+school+education&w2=High+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Middle+school+education&w5=New+york+school+education&w6=School+education+in+california&c=6&s=181&.sig=gkGybS6R2TNc7Ffa1FldiA>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Danielle Conger

Sandra Dodd wrote:

>If I were designing a curriculum it would have lots of social
>studies. We're not talking about curriculum anyway, but kids who
>learn from the world around them can't help but learn all the kinds
>of things that school calls "social studies"—where people live, what
>they do, what families are good for and how they operate, what
>governments do for people, how communities are organized, what might
>make one person or place "richer" than another, what languages are
>good for and the fact that not all people use the same one...
>Calling it "social studies" is a school construct. Separating it
>from history and English and music is an oddity of school. But the
>"material," and the "subject matter" is the fabric of life itself.
>

I was watching the CNN segment on unschooling last night on the cnn.com
website, and it was pretty good as far as mainstream reporting goes, I
thought.

Interspliced with the three "unschooling" families, they had a
California board of ed guy or someone like that whose main criticism was
"how are these kids ever going to experience lab chemistry at home or
world geography?"

I was just like, "Huh?" But he honestly and truly seemed to think that
the only way people could experience "world geography" was in a
classroom. I thought that was so bizarre. Lab chemistry made a certain
kind of sense at least, considering the chemicals, etc. he was
envisioning, but "world geography"?

Unschooled kids encounter "social studies," "world geography" and "world
cultures" all the time in so many different ways, it just seemed so
strange that this guy couldn't fathom how such things could be
experienced outside of a classroom and textbook.


--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha

Have a Nice Day!

I picked "social studies" out of the air as a random thing. In other words,
the schools can pick anything and call it "required". That doesn't make
their "requirements" any more important than anything our unschooled kids
learn in a day.

What I posted wasn't fallacy, but wasn't elaborated on enough because I
didn't feel the need to elaborate to make my point.

Kristen



----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandra Dodd" <Sandra@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] New to Unschooling Need some advise



On Feb 16, 2006, at 7:56 PM, Have a Nice Day! wrote:

> Who on earth decided that "social studies" was important to put in
> school curriculum anyway?

If I were designing a curriculum it would have lots of social
studies. We're not talking about curriculum anyway, but kids who
learn from the world around them can't help but learn all the kinds
of things that school calls "social studies"—where people live, what
they do, what families are good for and how they operate, what
governments do for people, how communities are organized, what might
make one person or place "richer" than another, what languages are
good for and the fact that not all people use the same one...
Calling it "social studies" is a school construct. Separating it
from history and English and music is an oddity of school. But the
"material," and the "subject matter" is the fabric of life itself.

-=-What schools call "math" is actually a foreign language.-=-

It's a traditional notation for something natural.
Music isn't a foreign language, but musical notation is a kind of
written language.
They're both notation, as taught formally. The REAL music and math
don't have to be written down, but school can't teach and test it
without it being in writing.

-=-Truly, most of what we know as "normal" kind of school is just
"tradition" based on the status quo. Its not really based on any
real research.-=-

What they do is based on a ton of research, but it is in and of
schools, and based on the assumption that school is an
inevitability. It doesn't apply to us.

It would be better not to talk about school at all, but when it IS
brought up, fallacy doesn't help.

Sandra









"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
<http://www.unschooling.info>
Yahoo! Groups Links








--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.10/263 - Release Date: 2/16/2006

Nisha

--- In [email protected], "deanabrown1"
<squeekyme@...> wrote:
Her dad comes home everyday and asks her what she learned in
> homeschool that day and she never has anything to tell him which
> makes my efforts feel useless.

Remember, if you ask a kid what they learned at school everyday,
they'd say the same thing. "nothing". I used to do it, most of my
friend's kids do it now. I'd ask him to stop asking those questions.
Nisha

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 17, 2006, at 3:26 AM, Schuyler Waynforth wrote:

> -=-It is easy to think that life must be hard. It is easy to look at
> your children playing, enjoying themselves and question how being
> happy could possibly be instructive. It isn't bad parenting to stop
> yourself from saying or acting in negative ways about the things that
> make your children light up with joy. It is the best kind of
> parenting.-=-


That's beautiful.

People say "life is hard" to justify coercion. They say "life is
hard" as a put-down. They say "life is hard" when they're overwhelmed.

Sometimes what they mean by "life" is something like "being the best"
or "being financially successful" or something.

Life seems pretty easy, if you just take a glance at unwanted pregnancy.
Being the very best in one's field is hard, and statistically
unlikely. Even getting into a field might be statistically
unlikely. But those things aren't the "life" that has quality, or
the "life" that has joy.

English strikes again, with its limitations and its halls of
mirrors. "Life" is a hard concept to hold still. It wiggles away
and people tell you again that it's hard.

Sandra

Betsy Hill

**when I was 12 and completely enamored with Jane
Goodall and wanting oh so much to become a primatologist, that there
just aren't any jobs in primatology and that it was something outside
the bounds of realism to suppose that I could do such a thing. **

Barbara Sher has written several self-help type books about finding the
gumption to persue the things that you love. One of her examples is a
woman who wanted to work with gorillas, and she had assumed that this
work would be hard to get into "because everyone loves gorillas so much,
there must be a lot of competition". (My paraphrase.) I never was into
gorillas myself, so I found her logic strange. But her story had a
happy ending through enthusiam and networking. I recommend the books.
(Don't remember which story is from which book, though, as the books
re-cover some of the same territory.)

An unschooled kid has a lot of advantages meeting scientists and doing
scientific exploration and making contacts that a kid in school might
not be able to do. One big advantage is a "mom advocate" (or dad or
grandparent)

Near me, Monterey aquarium in CA lets members do behind the scenes
tours, so you get to see what the scientists and helpers are doing
behind the scenes, not just in front.

** I thought he could get paid for having a tank
full of sharks at home that he studied and I said I wasn't sure, and
he said it might be just a hobby. **

I'll bet there are some "shark cams" (at least ones at aquariums) on the
internet that you can look at until you get your home aquarium set up.
This may work best w. a high-speed connection.

(And I can't resist adding -- "You're going to need a bigger boat".) (Jaws)

Betsy

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 17, 2006, at 7:41 AM, Danielle Conger wrote:

> Lab chemistry made a certain
> kind of sense at least, considering the chemicals, etc.

Chemistry was an elective at our school, and I dropped out to take
another English elective instead (speech or poetry or something, I
don't know which). There was one experiment every couple of weeks
and the rest of the time was book stuff.

Boring.

There are "kitchen chemistry" books all over the place and all over
the internet. People can mess with chemistry if they want to, but
with the internet you don't even so much HAVE to do the yucky
dangerous stuff. I have a bottle of acid in my bathroom right now
with which I intend to clean the floor of an old shower, at some
point along here. I used bleach to clean the hot tub yesterday
(dressed specially for the occasion, because I have forgotten and
gotten bleach splatters on clothes I like).

Oh well.... blathering. But to go to school for 13 years on the off
chance of MAYBE taking one good chemistry class isn't very efficient,
is it?

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Coffee Goddess

>
> An unschooled kid has a lot of advantages meeting
> scientists and doing
> scientific exploration and making contacts that a
> kid in school might
> not be able to do. One big advantage is a "mom
> advocate" (or dad or
> grandparent)

My daughter (13.5 now, 12 last summer) is very
interested in Bigfoot, and we were lucky enough to
attend *two* national Bigfoot conventions last year.
She, of course, was the only young person in a
(smallish) room of every expert in the US, UK and
Canada on the subject. Every expert was impressed
with her knowledge and was so happy to chat with her,
sign books for her, etc. She even won free books,
which I got the feeling was rigged because they liked
her so much. She actually was invited to volunteer at
the second one, in exchange for free admission. Even
though these were on weekends, no other kids were
interested, or perhaps no other parents thought it was
important enough to pay for attendance....

Dana

Guadalupe's Coffee Roaster
100% Organic Fair Trade Coffee
Roasted to Perfection Daily
http://www.guadalupescoffee.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 17, 2006, at 10:19 AM, Have a Nice Day! wrote:

> I picked "social studies" out of the air as a random thing. In
> other words,
> the schools can pick anything and call it "required". That doesn't
> make
> their "requirements" any more important than anything our
> unschooled kids
> learn in a day.
>
> What I posted wasn't fallacy, but wasn't elaborated on enough
> because I
> didn't feel the need to elaborate to make my point.


2 Expect your beliefs to be challenged. Welcome this as an
opportunity to critically examine your own ideas.

4. If you have a belief or practice that you don't want held up to
public examination, don't post it to the list.

(full list at http://sandradodd.com/lists/info and also in a file at
yahoogroups)



Please don't post statements you don't really believe.

Please don't post random things out of the air.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 17, 2006, at 7:28 AM, Deana Brown wrote:

> -=- She gets so excited about the game just
> like me and my husband do but I get up every 10 mins while playing to
> take care of something around the house, sure I wish I could sit
> for an
> hour without any interuption. -=-

Then you can give her the luxury you don't have (or that you could
have if you weren't the mom).




> So when I see her play for 3 4 5 hours it
> stresses me cause I wonder if its healthy for her not to be up doing
> other things as well.


If you look for her joy and learning instead of casting your mind out
to collect the things she is NOT doing, both of you will be healthier
and happier.

-=-Other unschoolers have told me video games and tv are fine and a
couple
have said NO WAY turn off the tv for the two year old.-=-

Look at WHY they're saying what they're saying. What's their reasoning?
What do you want for your daughter and for your family?
What are your beliefs about choices and control?

Ultimately your decisions will be based on principles.
http://sandradodd.com/rules
http://sandradodd.com/benrules

Decisions are hard if you're trying to decide whether to make rules
based on what one person recommends, or rules based on what another
says. But if you start with deciding what you believe and what you
want, decision making is easy.

If I believe that my children should be assisted to do what they want
to do, I don't have to think hard about whether to help them. If I
had a mind full of rules and platitudes about self-sufficiency and
rules about how much time or money or attention a teen should get, I
would have to worry about what others thought about what I decided.
But I don't I help my children because that's how our unschooling
has always worked. We're partners. The principle of being my
child's partner has helped me since I first went to La Leche League
when Kirby was four months old. I wish I had gone earlier!

Sandra

Pamela Sorooshian

On Feb 17, 2006, at 4:30 AM, Robyn Coburn wrote:

> However I have become convinced that for Jayn and for the present,
> Barbie is
> the conduit to all knowledge. Presently she is playing with a long
> elastic
> cord attached doing pulley and pendulum experiments with her new
> Sandy (from
> Grease) doll. Earlier we were happy that the dvd of Grease arrived
> on the
> same day as the doll. We watched that and I relived some high school
> memories of seeing it when it came out.

You should have seen what I saw -- Holly Dodd doing mathematics (not
KNOWINGLY) with a bunch of little Barbie items. She was sorting them,
organizing them, in different ways. When she was satisfied, she
showed them to me (not realizing I'd been surreptitiously watching
her all along) and explained why each belonged in each set - (what
attributes they shared).

-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
GET A LIFE...
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/getunschool>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tracey Inman

---Other unschoolers have told me video games and tv are fine and a couple
have said NO WAY turn off the tv for the two year old. Limit video
games to a half hour a day. My goodness if I did that I would go insane
of trying to keep them occupied all day---

I think I am safe in saying whoever told you to limit tv and video games are
not true unschoolers. Deana, you remind me of the way I used to be as far
as not really knowing how to play (and enjoy it fully). It is hard to make
such a paradigm shift. Mine came from how I was raised. For gosh sakes my
mother couldn't sit at the table and enjoy a meal without jumping up and
down for everyone. It was really embarrassing to me. I still have to have
some sort of order in my own life but I am finding ways to do so that do not
disturb my girls. I must admit that sometimes I just have to seclude myself
and get my mind brain flowing in the right juices again. But when I really
play with them I am reminded how much fun I am missing when I am zoned in to
accomplish 5oo other things. This whole unschooling thing is such a
journey. It really is as Sandra said, a family project. I don't believe
one can unschool without being ready to really examine themselves and make
appropriate changes. As the paradigm shifts begin to happen you will feel a
sense of peace with each one. There is no hurry up and get there. You must
decide to be on a journey. I don't know if anyone else has experienced this
but as we have journeyed I have found my marriage has been refreshed as
well. Just thought I throw that out there...

Enjoying the journey...

Tracey I. -mom to Rachael (13) & Madison (10)

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 17, 2006, at 1:04 PM, Tracey Inman wrote:

> I think I am safe in saying whoever told you to limit tv and video
> games are
> not true unschoolers.


This is in the dangerous realm of Christian sects saying they are the
only true Christians. <g>

There is a level of unschooling that involves living in the same old
traditional ways, but not requiring schoolwork.

I have seen families do that and then decide unschooling doesn't
work. I've seen families do that, but require math lessons and
reading lessons.

That, to me, isn't what unschooling is all about. It takes learning
and "education" still as a subset of life.

For our family it has worked well to consider everything to be
educational, and then there is no "education," just learning. Lots
of it. Constant and deep in the fabric of life.

Tracey wrote:
-=-I don't believe
one can unschool without being ready to really examine themselves and
make
appropriate changes. As the paradigm shifts begin to happen you will
feel a
sense of peace with each one. There is no hurry up and get there. -=-

There's hurry up and decide, though.
Although people need to go through the steps to really understand and
trust natural learning, there is such a thing as waiting too long to
begin.

http://sandradodd.com/unschool/stages
That might help those new unschoolers who might be feeling confused
by all this back and forth stuff. <g>





Sandra

Schuyler Waynforth

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@...> wrote:
> Then I noticed that is was Schuyler who always has
> something insightful to say, so I read it.

Wow, you made me giddy and blush a bit. Thanks.

Schuyler

Have a Nice Day!

I didn't find that my beliefs were challenged. In fact I totally agreed with you Sandra. I think we were discussing two different aspects of the same thing.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] New to Unschooling Need some advise



On Feb 17, 2006, at 10:19 AM, Have a Nice Day! wrote:

> I picked "social studies" out of the air as a random thing. In
> other words,
> the schools can pick anything and call it "required". That doesn't
> make
> their "requirements" any more important than anything our
> unschooled kids
> learn in a day.
>
> What I posted wasn't fallacy, but wasn't elaborated on enough
> because I
> didn't feel the need to elaborate to make my point.


2 Expect your beliefs to be challenged. Welcome this as an
opportunity to critically examine your own ideas.

4. If you have a belief or practice that you don't want held up to
public examination, don't post it to the list.

(full list at http://sandradodd.com/lists/info and also in a file at
yahoogroups)



Please don't post statements you don't really believe.

Please don't post random things out of the air.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: <http://www.unschooling.info>



SPONSORED LINKS Graduate school education High school education Home school education
Middle school education New york school education School education in california


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.10/263 - Release Date: 2/16/2006


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 17, 2006, at 9:28 AM, Deana Brown wrote:

> Other unschoolers have told me video games and tv are fine and a
> couple
> have said NO WAY turn off the tv for the two year old. Limit video
> games to a half hour a day.

And some people say send kids to school or they'll be bums. But
they've never believed in and tried to make homeschooling work

And some people say limit sweets because kids will eat nothing but.
But they've never believed in and tried to make no food controls work.

And some people say make your kids clean up or they will always be
slobs. But they've never tried being their child's partner.

Better to ask questions of people who have actually tried these
things, who've found respectful ways between the extremes of "No" and
"I don't care" in order to find out how they avoid the doom and gloom
predicted by the people who make decisions based on fear.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<< Other unschoolers have told me video games and tv are fine and a couple

have said NO WAY turn off the tv for the two year old. Limit video
games to a half hour a day. My goodness if I did that I would go insane
of trying to keep them occupied all day. >>>>.

One idea expressed here that bears further consideration is the concept of
"keeping them" occupied.

I have found that Jayn needs almost no help in keeping herself occupied, and
in engaging in her various passions. It is more usual that she will be
wanting me to join her in the game or activity that she has instigated. My
challenge is keeping up with her!

The other side of this is "why?" - why do you feel that desire?

You have told us that part of it is keeping one busy so that you can do the
schoolwork with the other one.

Once you have let go of that goal or priority, much of the urgency of "keep
them occupied" will fade away.

It is true that sometimes I have to put household duties and other personal
activities (like e-lists) on hold during the day, or fit those things around
what Jayn would prefer me to do.

Rather than hold on to the attitude that I have to "find" something to keep
her out of my hair, or impose something on to her, I either grab my
opportunity when she is busy with her own stuff (which happens
increasingly), or negotiate some time, or invite her to join me. It's
difficult to prevent her wanting to help in the kitchen, for example.

It helps me personally to remember that being with her is what I have chosen
as the most important thing I have to do with my time.

I may have other things to do, but not anything better to do.

Robyn L. Coburn

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 19, 2006, at 1:18 AM, Robyn Coburn wrote:

> One idea expressed here that bears further consideration is the
> concept of
> "keeping them" occupied.
>
> I have found that Jayn needs almost no help in keeping herself
> occupied, and
> in engaging in her various passions. It is more usual that she will be
> wanting me to join her in the game or activity that she has
> instigated. My
> challenge is keeping up with her!


Oh, good point! The opposite of "being occupied" is "being at
leisure" (or, in the case of a porta-pottie, "being vacant" <g>).
No problem with some time of leisure!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]