Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] raw foods
[email protected]
In a message dated 07/16/2000 4:27:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
aworthen@... writes:
<< Does anyone know the effects of going completely raw? I know two people
that
are raw foodists and they too say they've never felt better. I did recently
read that a raw foodist is one whose diet is 75% raw, which does seem a
little more resonable to me. Just curious. >>
I was about 75% raw food before I got pregnant with my third child and truly
never felt better in my life, not even when I was young and "naturally" thin
did
I feel so good or energetic. I think if you are doing raw foods mostly that
its
important to eat a variety including raw nuts. Mix your whole grains, meats
or soy with raw vegetables. I hope to some day get back into that lifestyle,
but this last child really threw me off my eating habits.
Kathy
aworthen@... writes:
<< Does anyone know the effects of going completely raw? I know two people
that
are raw foodists and they too say they've never felt better. I did recently
read that a raw foodist is one whose diet is 75% raw, which does seem a
little more resonable to me. Just curious. >>
I was about 75% raw food before I got pregnant with my third child and truly
never felt better in my life, not even when I was young and "naturally" thin
did
I feel so good or energetic. I think if you are doing raw foods mostly that
its
important to eat a variety including raw nuts. Mix your whole grains, meats
or soy with raw vegetables. I hope to some day get back into that lifestyle,
but this last child really threw me off my eating habits.
Kathy
aworthen
Mix your whole grains, meats
raw meat. Ahhh. I'm very cureious about a raw foods diet. Of course, I'm
vegan anyway so I guess meat shouldn't be an issue. :-)
Amy
> or soy with raw vegetables.How does one eat meat on a raw diet? Help. I'm confussed. <G> You can't eat
raw meat. Ahhh. I'm very cureious about a raw foods diet. Of course, I'm
vegan anyway so I guess meat shouldn't be an issue. :-)
Amy
----- Original Message -----
From: <Natrlmama@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] raw foods
> In a message dated 07/16/2000 4:27:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> aworthen@... writes:
>
> << Does anyone know the effects of going completely raw? I know two people
> that
> are raw foodists and they too say they've never felt better. I did
recently
> read that a raw foodist is one whose diet is 75% raw, which does seem a
> little more resonable to me. Just curious. >>
>
> I was about 75% raw food before I got pregnant with my third child and
truly
> never felt better in my life, not even when I was young and "naturally"
thin
> did
> I feel so good or energetic. I think if you are doing raw foods mostly
that
> its
> important to eat a variety including raw nuts.I hope to some day get back
into that lifestyle,
> but this last child really threw me off my eating habits.
>
> Kathy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
Corallyn Berger
> How does one eat meat on a raw diet? Help. I'mI know this is on the vegitarian topic and what I'm
> confussed. <G> You can't eat
> raw meat. Ahhh. I'm very cureious about a raw foods
> diet. Of course, I'm
> vegan anyway so I guess meat shouldn't be an issue.
> :-)
> Amy
about to say isn't vegitarian however it is natural.
My mother grew up on a dair farm. Her family was
finacially strapped, but because of their business
they had fresh milk every morning and home grown steak
for dinner almost every night. Today the meat you buy
at the store has who knows what in it and may not even
be the type of meat you think you are paying for. But
a few years ago my mom decided to raise her own cow
for slauter. I am telling you that meat was the best
meat I have ever tasted and there wasn't one ounce of
fat on it. You actually had to put some greese in the
pan to keep the meat from sticking. I buy the leanest
meat I can find, around 92%, and I don't have to worry
about the meat sticking. I guess what I'm saying is
that you can eat meat and still go natural just buy
raising your own beef. I think mom said it cost her
about $1.50/lb for the meat she got off the cow, abt
400lb. That included the cost of raising and
slautering it. Oh and don't forget the meat you buy at
the store if full of steroids. Corallyn
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[email protected]
In a message dated 07/16/2000 1:41:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
aworthen@... writes:
<<
How does one eat meat on a raw diet? Help. I'm confussed. <G> You can't eat
raw meat. Ahhh. I'm very cureious about a raw foods diet. Of course, I'm
vegan anyway so I guess meat shouldn't be an issue. :-) >>
If you were eating 75% raw and one day you felt like a chicken salad, you
would of course cook your chicken (no salmonella for me thanks <gg>) and
toss a couple of ounces into you greens and veggies. The rest of your day
would probably have consisted of fruits and other vegetables. I have not
nor do I think I could ever be 100% raw. Same goes for if I want a
vegetable sandwich. The grains would be baked and the uncooked veggies
would go in the middle. Same with beans, they are also processed. The
only thing you could eat raw would be fruit, veggie and nuts. Am I making
more sense? oh it just dawned on me, raw cow or goat milk is acceptable
also if you are not vegan. Of course you either have your own goat/cow
or have a very trustworthy source. There was a guy who wrote several
juicing books, raw foodist, and he also incorporated raw goat milk into his
diet. Wonderful man, can't think of his name, lived to be 106 or something
like that, in good health up until his death.
Kathy
aworthen@... writes:
<<
How does one eat meat on a raw diet? Help. I'm confussed. <G> You can't eat
raw meat. Ahhh. I'm very cureious about a raw foods diet. Of course, I'm
vegan anyway so I guess meat shouldn't be an issue. :-) >>
If you were eating 75% raw and one day you felt like a chicken salad, you
would of course cook your chicken (no salmonella for me thanks <gg>) and
toss a couple of ounces into you greens and veggies. The rest of your day
would probably have consisted of fruits and other vegetables. I have not
nor do I think I could ever be 100% raw. Same goes for if I want a
vegetable sandwich. The grains would be baked and the uncooked veggies
would go in the middle. Same with beans, they are also processed. The
only thing you could eat raw would be fruit, veggie and nuts. Am I making
more sense? oh it just dawned on me, raw cow or goat milk is acceptable
also if you are not vegan. Of course you either have your own goat/cow
or have a very trustworthy source. There was a guy who wrote several
juicing books, raw foodist, and he also incorporated raw goat milk into his
diet. Wonderful man, can't think of his name, lived to be 106 or something
like that, in good health up until his death.
Kathy
Lynda
There is another problem with the beef you buy at your local
Safeway/Kroger, etc. It has been cryo-vac'd. (I'm not talking about the
wrapping that covers the meat in the self-serve counters. This is a
breaking and bagging process that goes on at major slaughter houses and is
how beef and pork arrive at most major chains) That process creates
off-gassing which permeates the meat. You can buy beef such as Harris
Ranch at some markets and you will remove two of the problems with meat
today, steroids and cryo-vacing.
Lynda, who owned a butcher shop for 14 years.
----------
Safeway/Kroger, etc. It has been cryo-vac'd. (I'm not talking about the
wrapping that covers the meat in the self-serve counters. This is a
breaking and bagging process that goes on at major slaughter houses and is
how beef and pork arrive at most major chains) That process creates
off-gassing which permeates the meat. You can buy beef such as Harris
Ranch at some markets and you will remove two of the problems with meat
today, steroids and cryo-vacing.
Lynda, who owned a butcher shop for 14 years.
----------
> From: Corallyn Berger <hape2day@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] raw foods
> Date: Sunday, July 16, 2000 8:58 PM
>
>
>
> > How does one eat meat on a raw diet? Help. I'm
> > confussed. <G> You can't eat
> > raw meat. Ahhh. I'm very cureious about a raw foods
> > diet. Of course, I'm
> > vegan anyway so I guess meat shouldn't be an issue.
> > :-)
> > Amy
>
> I know this is on the vegitarian topic and what I'm
> about to say isn't vegitarian however it is natural.
> My mother grew up on a dair farm. Her family was
> finacially strapped, but because of their business
> they had fresh milk every morning and home grown steak
> for dinner almost every night. Today the meat you buy
> at the store has who knows what in it and may not even
> be the type of meat you think you are paying for. But
> a few years ago my mom decided to raise her own cow
> for slauter. I am telling you that meat was the best
> meat I have ever tasted and there wasn't one ounce of
> fat on it. You actually had to put some greese in the
> pan to keep the meat from sticking. I buy the leanest
> meat I can find, around 92%, and I don't have to worry
> about the meat sticking. I guess what I'm saying is
> that you can eat meat and still go natural just buy
> raising your own beef. I think mom said it cost her
> about $1.50/lb for the meat she got off the cow, abt
> 400lb. That included the cost of raising and
> slautering it. Oh and don't forget the meat you buy at
> the store if full of steroids. Corallyn
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere!
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Corallyn Berger
There was a story in the news here a few years ago
about a man who had a bar-b-q and cooked his hamberger
med rare. Well, he got extremely ill. Come to find out
it wasn't the beaf that made him ill but the rare pork
and other meats that the store had mixed in with the
beef and sold as beef. The reporter went on to say
that this is usually only aproblem that local, i.e.
stores that grind their own meat, butchers do to save
money and that if you buy the name brand you are most
likely to get what you are paying for. Corallyn
--- Lynda <lurine@...> wrote:
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Get Yahoo! Mail � Free email you can access from anywhere!
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about a man who had a bar-b-q and cooked his hamberger
med rare. Well, he got extremely ill. Come to find out
it wasn't the beaf that made him ill but the rare pork
and other meats that the store had mixed in with the
beef and sold as beef. The reporter went on to say
that this is usually only aproblem that local, i.e.
stores that grind their own meat, butchers do to save
money and that if you buy the name brand you are most
likely to get what you are paying for. Corallyn
--- Lynda <lurine@...> wrote:
> There is another problem with the beef you buy at__________________________________________________
> your local
> Safeway/Kroger, etc. It has been cryo-vac'd. (I'm
> not talking about the
> wrapping that covers the meat in the self-serve
> counters. This is a
> breaking and bagging process that goes on at major
> slaughter houses and is
> how beef and pork arrive at most major chains) That
> process creates
> off-gassing which permeates the meat. You can buy
> beef such as Harris
> Ranch at some markets and you will remove two of the
> problems with meat
> today, steroids and cryo-vacing.
>
> Lynda, who owned a butcher shop for 14 years.
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail � Free email you can access from anywhere!
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aworthen
I heard about that. At first they thought it was e-coli because he had eaten
beef, but then they found out it was tricanosis (sp?), which of course comes
from under cooked pork! Scary.
beef, but then they found out it was tricanosis (sp?), which of course comes
from under cooked pork! Scary.
----- Original Message -----
From: Corallyn Berger <hape2day@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] raw foods
> There was a story in the news here a few years ago
> about a man who had a bar-b-q and cooked his hamberger
> med rare. Well, he got extremely ill. Come to find out
> it wasn't the beaf that made him ill but the rare pork
> and other meats that the store had mixed in with the
> beef and sold as beef. The reporter went on to say
> that this is usually only aproblem that local, i.e.
> stores that grind their own meat, butchers do to save
> money and that if you buy the name brand you are most
> likely to get what you are paying for. Corallyn
>
>
> --- Lynda <lurine@...> wrote:
> > There is another problem with the beef you buy at
> > your local
> > Safeway/Kroger, etc. It has been cryo-vac'd. (I'm
> > not talking about the
> > wrapping that covers the meat in the self-serve
> > counters. This is a
> > breaking and bagging process that goes on at major
> > slaughter houses and is
> > how beef and pork arrive at most major chains) That
> > process creates
> > off-gassing which permeates the meat. You can buy
> > beef such as Harris
> > Ranch at some markets and you will remove two of the
> > problems with meat
> > today, steroids and cryo-vacing.
> >
> > Lynda, who owned a butcher shop for 14 years.
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit www.ibelieve.com today and get a FREE book by Chuck Swindoll!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/6182/14/_/448294/_/963838620/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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>
>
Corallyn Berger
We moved out to the country late last year. One of the
things I plan to do on our 6acres is to raise a beef
cow. 400lb is a lota meat...and much cheaper and
better for you. I also want to have an herb garden and
a veggie garden. I would like to keep a milk cow for 1
year just so I can say that I know how to care for a
milk cow. From what I have heard it is a big
responsability, I think the kids would enjoy it.
Waiting till they are a bit older and more
independant, though. Corallyn
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail � Free email you can access from anywhere!
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things I plan to do on our 6acres is to raise a beef
cow. 400lb is a lota meat...and much cheaper and
better for you. I also want to have an herb garden and
a veggie garden. I would like to keep a milk cow for 1
year just so I can say that I know how to care for a
milk cow. From what I have heard it is a big
responsability, I think the kids would enjoy it.
Waiting till they are a bit older and more
independant, though. Corallyn
> I heard about that. At first they thought it was------------------------------------------------------------------------
> e-coli because he had eaten
> beef, but then they found out it was tricanosis
> (sp?), which of course comes
> from under cooked pork! Scary.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Corallyn Berger <hape2day@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 8:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] raw foods
>
>
> > There was a story in the news here a few years ago
> > about a man who had a bar-b-q and cooked his
> hamberger
> > med rare. Well, he got extremely ill. Come to find
> out
> > it wasn't the beaf that made him ill but the rare
> pork
> > and other meats that the store had mixed in with
> the
> > beef and sold as beef. The reporter went on to say
> > that this is usually only aproblem that local,
> i.e.
> > stores that grind their own meat, butchers do to
> save
> > money and that if you buy the name brand you are
> most
> > likely to get what you are paying for. Corallyn
> >
> >
> > --- Lynda <lurine@...> wrote:
> > > There is another problem with the beef you buy
> at
> > > your local
> > > Safeway/Kroger, etc. It has been cryo-vac'd.
> (I'm
> > > not talking about the
> > > wrapping that covers the meat in the self-serve
> > > counters. This is a
> > > breaking and bagging process that goes on at
> major
> > > slaughter houses and is
> > > how beef and pork arrive at most major chains)
> That
> > > process creates
> > > off-gassing which permeates the meat. You can
> buy
> > > beef such as Harris
> > > Ranch at some markets and you will remove two of
> the
> > > problems with meat
> > > today, steroids and cryo-vacing.
> > >
> > > Lynda, who owned a butcher shop for 14 years.
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from
> anywhere!
> > http://mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
> > Visit www.ibelieve.com today and get a FREE bookhttp://click.egroups.com/1/6182/14/_/448294/_/963838620/
> by Chuck Swindoll!
> >
>
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >__________________________________________________
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter
> and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > Addresses:
> > Post message: [email protected]
> > Unsubscribe:
> [email protected]
> > List owner: [email protected]
> > List settings page:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> >
>
>
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Lynda
I would suggest that the reporter go back to school. Most ground beef is a
combination of Australian bull meat (nice red color and little or no fat)
and scraps or trimmings from breaking a beef. For example, it is no longer
popular to leave the "tail" on a t-bone steak. The tail goes in the
hamburger. When you break a beef (cut it into smaller sections from the
1/4's it arrives in), there are parts to the round, chuck, neck, and
sirloin tip area that are not sold as steaks or used as stew meat or the
old fashioned "cube" steak. That is your hamburger. Beef is much cheaper
to buy than pork. You can buy utility grade fores for about 1/4 to 1/2
the price of a hanging half or whole carcass hog. If you added a "white"
meat (pork or turkey) to your hamburger you would get an anemic looking
hamburger. Also, hamburger is sent through the grinder twice, something
you can't do with pork unless you want a real nasty greasy looking mess.
The only way there could have been a problem is if the grinder was used
without a complete breakdown after the buther made his sausage or ground
pork. Had he allowed it to sit around or did not clean it properly, then
you would have a problem. But, if you read your papers, you will find that
most, if not all of the food poisoning cases come from ground beef that is
mass produced and all the recalls have come from these mass production
folks, as have all the deaths from e-coli.
As to name brands being "what you pay for," that is a myth. It is the big
names that just finished paying back bucko bucks in fines because they were
selling utility grade beef as prime, who were using special lights and food
coloring to make the cuts of meat appealing and who were watering their
hamburger inorder to get more money. It is also the major brands that were
putting kangaroo meat in their hamburger.
Now, on to trichinosis. The symptoms are not even vaguely like e-coli
(Symptoms:diarrhea that is acute, bloody and severe vomiting (although
rare) loss of appetite abdominal pain so severe it is compared with
labor.) In fact, there are no symptoms until usually 8 to 15 days after
eating the meat with the earliest being 5 days and the outside being 45
days. The symptoms usually start with fever, muscle soreness, pain and
swelling around the eyes. Thirst, profuse sweating, chills, weakness and
tiredness may develop. Chest pain may be experienced since the parasite may
become imbedded in the diaphragm (the thin muscle separating the lungs from
abdominal organs.
Oh, for the unschooling tidbit for the day, in California (and probably the
rest of the states since it is all the same union), a butcher has to go to
school and learn all about disease that may be transmitted to humans from
meat, sterilization techniques and then must apprentise with a journeyman
butcher. However, the folks that do the slaughtering and the mass
producing are only "helpers" and do not need to go to school.
Lynda
----------
combination of Australian bull meat (nice red color and little or no fat)
and scraps or trimmings from breaking a beef. For example, it is no longer
popular to leave the "tail" on a t-bone steak. The tail goes in the
hamburger. When you break a beef (cut it into smaller sections from the
1/4's it arrives in), there are parts to the round, chuck, neck, and
sirloin tip area that are not sold as steaks or used as stew meat or the
old fashioned "cube" steak. That is your hamburger. Beef is much cheaper
to buy than pork. You can buy utility grade fores for about 1/4 to 1/2
the price of a hanging half or whole carcass hog. If you added a "white"
meat (pork or turkey) to your hamburger you would get an anemic looking
hamburger. Also, hamburger is sent through the grinder twice, something
you can't do with pork unless you want a real nasty greasy looking mess.
The only way there could have been a problem is if the grinder was used
without a complete breakdown after the buther made his sausage or ground
pork. Had he allowed it to sit around or did not clean it properly, then
you would have a problem. But, if you read your papers, you will find that
most, if not all of the food poisoning cases come from ground beef that is
mass produced and all the recalls have come from these mass production
folks, as have all the deaths from e-coli.
As to name brands being "what you pay for," that is a myth. It is the big
names that just finished paying back bucko bucks in fines because they were
selling utility grade beef as prime, who were using special lights and food
coloring to make the cuts of meat appealing and who were watering their
hamburger inorder to get more money. It is also the major brands that were
putting kangaroo meat in their hamburger.
Now, on to trichinosis. The symptoms are not even vaguely like e-coli
(Symptoms:diarrhea that is acute, bloody and severe vomiting (although
rare) loss of appetite abdominal pain so severe it is compared with
labor.) In fact, there are no symptoms until usually 8 to 15 days after
eating the meat with the earliest being 5 days and the outside being 45
days. The symptoms usually start with fever, muscle soreness, pain and
swelling around the eyes. Thirst, profuse sweating, chills, weakness and
tiredness may develop. Chest pain may be experienced since the parasite may
become imbedded in the diaphragm (the thin muscle separating the lungs from
abdominal organs.
Oh, for the unschooling tidbit for the day, in California (and probably the
rest of the states since it is all the same union), a butcher has to go to
school and learn all about disease that may be transmitted to humans from
meat, sterilization techniques and then must apprentise with a journeyman
butcher. However, the folks that do the slaughtering and the mass
producing are only "helpers" and do not need to go to school.
Lynda
----------
> From: Corallyn Berger <hape2day@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] raw foods
> Date: Monday, July 17, 2000 5:56 AM
>
> There was a story in the news here a few years ago
> about a man who had a bar-b-q and cooked his hamberger
> med rare. Well, he got extremely ill. Come to find out
> it wasn't the beaf that made him ill but the rare pork
> and other meats that the store had mixed in with the
> beef and sold as beef. The reporter went on to say
> that this is usually only aproblem that local, i.e.
> stores that grind their own meat, butchers do to save
> money and that if you buy the name brand you are most
> likely to get what you are paying for. Corallyn
>
Tracy Oldfield
This is something I've thought about, not in terms of caring for one
myself, but would it be feasible to milk cows more often than the
usual dawn and dusk scenario? As someone interested in
breastfeeding and therefore lactation generally, I wonder if it would
make more milk/ creamier milk? and whether it would be practical
to round up the cows three times a day instead of two.
Just a thought rattling round my head. I sometimes this list is
more unschooling us grown-ups than the kids <g>
Tracy
myself, but would it be feasible to milk cows more often than the
usual dawn and dusk scenario? As someone interested in
breastfeeding and therefore lactation generally, I wonder if it would
make more milk/ creamier milk? and whether it would be practical
to round up the cows three times a day instead of two.
Just a thought rattling round my head. I sometimes this list is
more unschooling us grown-ups than the kids <g>
Tracy
On 17 Jul 2000, at 6:42, Corallyn Berger wrote:
> We moved out to the country late last year. One of the
> things I plan to do on our 6acres is to raise a beef
> cow. 400lb is a lota meat...and much cheaper and
> better for you. I also want to have an herb garden and
> a veggie garden. I would like to keep a milk cow for 1
> year just so I can say that I know how to care for a
> milk cow. From what I have heard it is a big
> responsability, I think the kids would enjoy it.
> Waiting till they are a bit older and more
> independant, though. Corallyn
>
Sue
> Corallyn wrote:We have 4 beef cows, five heifers, two bulls ready for market and
>
> > We moved out to the country late last year. One of the
> > things I plan to do on our 6acres is to raise a beef
> > cow. 400lb is a lota meat
12 holstein steers aged 4 months to 2 years, however we never eat
our own animals they go to market. But humanely raised beef is
so much better for you than beef from factory animals.
> > I would like to keep a milk cow for 1A cow is a large expense and often comes with large vet bills.
> > year just so I can say that I know how to care for a
> > milk cow. From what I have heard it is a big
> > responsability, I think the kids would enjoy it.
> > Waiting till they are a bit older and more
> > independant, though. Corallyn
Maybe get a newborn heifer and bottle feed her so that she is
tame, then she will be easy to handle when you eventually milk
her. If she had a male calf, that can be raised for beef. A problem
these days is finding a cow with teats long enough to get a hold of,
they have been bred for shorter teats for milking machines.
A goat may be a better option for a dairy animal, they don't hurt
you as much if they inadvertently stand on your toes, and are so
easy for children to handle, even my four year old can milk our goat.
Tracy wrote:
> would it be feasible to milk cows more often than theSome farmers do just that, mainly big farms that have enough
> usual dawn and dusk scenario?
animals to be able to afford to employ people. It does increase
their production therefore increases $$$$$ but for these poor
animals that are just a factory to the farmers it may not make life
any better. I have seen a farm locally where they remove the
calves tails so that the cows aren't as likely to splatter you-know-
what all over the place in the milking parlor.
Most cows don't need to be rounded up, they just head for the
barn, and in big dairy operations they are often not far from the barn
anyway, they are often kept in small muddy crappy areas with no
access to pasture.
Our cattle live on a pile of grass, wood chips & leaves which is
about 100' long 30' wide and up to 15' high, this is all dumped here
by local gardeners and tree trimmers. In winter they would prefer
to be on the pile than in the barn as it heats from the composting
action. In spring, summer and fall [except in really wet weather]
they have access to several acres of pasture but seem to prefer to
be up in the yard waiting for people to bring them fresh grass
clippings.
Small is beautiful in farming, the bigger a farm gets the more
inhumane the treatment of the animals often becomes. They are
no longer animals, just machines there to produce a product. Last
year when the power went out after a big storm a pig factory near
here lost hundreds of animals, without the huge fans going to
remove the stale air toxic gasses built up and killed all the pigs in
the confinement housing.
To see pigs living in these places is sickening, to know that these
are intelligent creatures and being kept in small prison cells with
nothing to do is very sad. I love to watch our two sows as they go
about their days, rooting through the ground in search of some
buried treasure, digging mud puddles with those amazing noses,
loafing in the pond on hot days and building thick straw nests for
themselves when the weather turns cool. Just yesterday we gave
our two five week old piglets a whole bale of hay to play with, they
have been busily going through it, eating the oats and making a
bed with some of the straw, it was cool last night, and they
probably made themselves very cosy.
Sue
The Winona Farm in Minnesota Welcomes Unschoolers All Year Round
My website: http://members.xoom.com/sue_m_e
Farm website: http://members.xoom.com/winfarm/
Farm newsletter: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Winonafarm
"To believe in something, and not to live it,
is to be dishonest." -Mahatma Gandhi
Corallyn Berger
> A cow is a large expense and often comes with largeI don't know where she got her beef cow but she paid
> vet bills.
> Maybe get a newborn heifer and bottle feed her so
> that she is
> tame, then she will be easy to handle when you
> eventually milk
> her. If she had a male calf, that can be raised for
> beef. A problem
> these days is finding a cow with teats long enough
> to get a hold of,
> they have been bred for shorter teats for milking
> machines.
>
> A goat may be a better option for a dairy animal,
> they don't hurt
> you as much if they inadvertently stand on your
> toes, and are so
> easy for children to handle, even my four year old
> can milk our goat.
>
$30 for it. She got it as a new born, I think it was
no more than a week old. I plan to do something
simmilar for my beef cow. Later I plan to have the
milk cow. I have never had goats milk and have heard
opposing views on the flavor. I have considered a goat
instead but don't know much about them. Are there
stores that sell goats milk so I could try it before I
make a decission on an animal? Corallyn
__________________________________________________
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Get Yahoo! Mail � Free email you can access from anywhere!
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aworthen
Are there
you try and get the one that they sell in the regular milk section. The
powder is yucky (for lack of a better term : )).
Amy
> stores that sell goats milk so I could try it before IAlmost any supermarket these days carries goat's milk. I would suggest that
> make a decission on an animal? Corallyn
you try and get the one that they sell in the regular milk section. The
powder is yucky (for lack of a better term : )).
Amy
----- Original Message -----
From: Corallyn Berger <hape2day@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] cows and a rant [long]
>
>
> > A cow is a large expense and often comes with large
> > vet bills.
> > Maybe get a newborn heifer and bottle feed her so
> > that she is
> > tame, then she will be easy to handle when you
> > eventually milk
> > her. If she had a male calf, that can be raised for
> > beef. A problem
> > these days is finding a cow with teats long enough
> > to get a hold of,
> > they have been bred for shorter teats for milking
> > machines.
> >
> > A goat may be a better option for a dairy animal,
> > they don't hurt
> > you as much if they inadvertently stand on your
> > toes, and are so
> > easy for children to handle, even my four year old
> > can milk our goat.
> >
>
> I don't know where she got her beef cow but she paid
> $30 for it. She got it as a new born, I think it was
> no more than a week old. I plan to do something
> simmilar for my beef cow. Later I plan to have the
> milk cow. I have never had goats milk and have heard
> opposing views on the flavor. I have considered a goat
> instead but don't know much about them.>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit www.ibelieve.com today and get a FREE book by Chuck Swindoll!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/6182/14/_/448294/_/963978619/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
>
Lynda
The kidlets did goats for 4-H. One of their projects was a booth at the
fair where folks did a taste test. It was soooo funny to see the looks on
the faces of all the folks that had heard all about that "nasty" taste.
Not one got it right! Most bigger stores will carry the goat milk and
almost all health stores and co-ops do.
Lynda
----------
fair where folks did a taste test. It was soooo funny to see the looks on
the faces of all the folks that had heard all about that "nasty" taste.
Not one got it right! Most bigger stores will carry the goat milk and
almost all health stores and co-ops do.
Lynda
----------
> From: Corallyn Berger <hape2day@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] cows and a rant [long]
> Date: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 8:50 PM
>
>
>
> > A cow is a large expense and often comes with large
> > vet bills.
> > Maybe get a newborn heifer and bottle feed her so
> > that she is
> > tame, then she will be easy to handle when you
> > eventually milk
> > her. If she had a male calf, that can be raised for
> > beef. A problem
> > these days is finding a cow with teats long enough
> > to get a hold of,
> > they have been bred for shorter teats for milking
> > machines.
> >
> > A goat may be a better option for a dairy animal,
> > they don't hurt
> > you as much if they inadvertently stand on your
> > toes, and are so
> > easy for children to handle, even my four year old
> > can milk our goat.
> >
>
> I don't know where she got her beef cow but she paid
> $30 for it. She got it as a new born, I think it was
> no more than a week old. I plan to do something
> simmilar for my beef cow. Later I plan to have the
> milk cow. I have never had goats milk and have heard
> opposing views on the flavor. I have considered a goat
> instead but don't know much about them. Are there
> stores that sell goats milk so I could try it before I
> make a decission on an animal? Corallyn
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit www.ibelieve.com today and get a FREE book by Chuck Swindoll!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/6182/14/_/448294/_/963978619/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
Sue
> I don't know where she got her beef cow but she paid$30 is a good price for a calf, we wouldn't let one go under $120,
> $30 for it. She got it as a new born, I think it was
> no more than a week old. I plan to do something
> simmilar for my beef cow. Later I plan to have the
> milk cow. I have never had goats milk and have heard
> opposing views on the flavor. I have considered a goat
> instead but don't know much about them. Are there
> stores that sell goats milk so I could try it before I
> make a decission on an animal? Corallyn
that is if we were selling. We buy holstien calves at the sales
barn and pay between $15 [new-born and very shaky looking so no-
one else bid on him] to $145. You can get bargain basement
calves, and sometimes they thrive.
If you are raising a beef animal, why not raise the daisy heifer at
the same time, by the time she has a calf two years will have
passed and your children will be older, but you may not want to
give her up after raising her. You can always plan to dry up your
cow before going on vacation, that way she won't have to be milked
every day.
On goats I find that the milk is quite palatable, but if you want to try
goat milk befoer getting a goat, do NOT buy canned or powdered
milk, they are both disgusting and will turn you right off goat milk.
Maybe you could find someone with goats and buy some fresh
milk to get an even better idea of what your goat's milk would taste
like, any processing at all changes the taste.
Sue
The Winona Farm in Minnesota Welcomes Unschoolers All Year Round
My website: http://members.xoom.com/sue_m_e
Farm website: http://members.xoom.com/winfarm/
Farm newsletter: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Winonafarm
"To believe in something, and not to live it,
is to be dishonest." -Mahatma Gandhi
[email protected]
Here is the info about brucillosis:
<<Brucella, the bacterium, and brucellosis, the disease, are serious
problems
to people who eat meat, drink milk, and handle animals.
Bovine brucella (in cattle) causes undulant fever in humans.
You can get this from drinking milk which has not been pasturized, getting
blood or other body fluids from infected cattle into wounds, or by handling
or eating raw meat or improperly cooked meat from an infected animal.
Caprine brucella (in goats) causes, according to my local veterinarian,
death in humans. The mother of one of his friends died from drinking
unpasturized goat's milk.
This same vet got brucellosis from an infected bovine while he was serving
as a USDA meat inspector. He said he was fine when he went to work, started
to drive home that afternoon and pulled over to the side of the road sick
as could be. He had to wait for someone to help him home because he was too
weak to drive.
Brucellosis can kill. It usually just makes you feel sick enough to wish
you were dead! ;-) A friend of mine contracted brucellosis while on a tour
of Russia. He presumes he drank unpasturized milk.
Brucellosis can be treated with antibiotics and supportive nursing.
My state, South Carolina, has been brucella free for decades. There are
stringent rules about any chattel (goats included) having to be blood
tested for brucella before being transported into the state. The
neighboring state, Georgia and Florida, were not brucella free when I was
still in the dairy business. All milk sold in stores is pasturized
sufficiently to kill the bacteria. Every load of milk leaving a dairy farm
in a commercial truck is tested for brucella, as well as several other
infectious conditions, like campylobacter, tb, and others.
If you are buying unpasturized milk, I would know my supplier. If you are
drinking your own cow's or goat's unpasturized milk, a blood test is not
expensive and is worthwhile for peace of mind. We had our animals tested,
even though the state is brucella free, once. Then we did not test again
unless we brought new animals on the farm.
Symptoms in humans: fever which rises and falls through the day
weakness including shaking
muscle and joint pain
headache
Under a microscope, the bacteria can be seen in the blood.>>
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
<<Brucella, the bacterium, and brucellosis, the disease, are serious
problems
to people who eat meat, drink milk, and handle animals.
Bovine brucella (in cattle) causes undulant fever in humans.
You can get this from drinking milk which has not been pasturized, getting
blood or other body fluids from infected cattle into wounds, or by handling
or eating raw meat or improperly cooked meat from an infected animal.
Caprine brucella (in goats) causes, according to my local veterinarian,
death in humans. The mother of one of his friends died from drinking
unpasturized goat's milk.
This same vet got brucellosis from an infected bovine while he was serving
as a USDA meat inspector. He said he was fine when he went to work, started
to drive home that afternoon and pulled over to the side of the road sick
as could be. He had to wait for someone to help him home because he was too
weak to drive.
Brucellosis can kill. It usually just makes you feel sick enough to wish
you were dead! ;-) A friend of mine contracted brucellosis while on a tour
of Russia. He presumes he drank unpasturized milk.
Brucellosis can be treated with antibiotics and supportive nursing.
My state, South Carolina, has been brucella free for decades. There are
stringent rules about any chattel (goats included) having to be blood
tested for brucella before being transported into the state. The
neighboring state, Georgia and Florida, were not brucella free when I was
still in the dairy business. All milk sold in stores is pasturized
sufficiently to kill the bacteria. Every load of milk leaving a dairy farm
in a commercial truck is tested for brucella, as well as several other
infectious conditions, like campylobacter, tb, and others.
If you are buying unpasturized milk, I would know my supplier. If you are
drinking your own cow's or goat's unpasturized milk, a blood test is not
expensive and is worthwhile for peace of mind. We had our animals tested,
even though the state is brucella free, once. Then we did not test again
unless we brought new animals on the farm.
Symptoms in humans: fever which rises and falls through the day
weakness including shaking
muscle and joint pain
headache
Under a microscope, the bacteria can be seen in the blood.>>
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
Lynda
The disease is referred to as Bangs amonst cattlemen. It is also known as
contagious spontanious or epizoodic abortion. In humans it was also known
as Mediterranean or Malta (where it was first recognized) fever.
It affects all ruminants--cattle, swine, bison, reindeer, cariboo, deer. It
has also been reported in dogs and coyotes. 44 states are disease free and
the other six have a less than .25% rate on tested herds. There use to be
100s of thousands of infected herds but as of 2000 there were only 6
infected herds left.
There is a vaccination for bangs that has been very successful in helping to
eliminate this disease.
Brucellosis in humans is rarely fatal with less than 2% of UNTREATED cases
resulting in death. Most cases (80%) are cured within a year. Some become
chronic.
There are only about 100 cases a year in the U.S. and a lot of those were
acquired while folks were traveling, particularly to Mexico where they sell
unpasterized goat milk and cheese.
Now, TB is a whole other story with about 18,000 cases a year but those are
rarely from milk but brought here by refugees.
As to testing, the blood test for animals is one way but for milk you do a
ring test. If I were going to drink raw milk from animals I raised, I do
both tests.
Lynda
contagious spontanious or epizoodic abortion. In humans it was also known
as Mediterranean or Malta (where it was first recognized) fever.
It affects all ruminants--cattle, swine, bison, reindeer, cariboo, deer. It
has also been reported in dogs and coyotes. 44 states are disease free and
the other six have a less than .25% rate on tested herds. There use to be
100s of thousands of infected herds but as of 2000 there were only 6
infected herds left.
There is a vaccination for bangs that has been very successful in helping to
eliminate this disease.
Brucellosis in humans is rarely fatal with less than 2% of UNTREATED cases
resulting in death. Most cases (80%) are cured within a year. Some become
chronic.
There are only about 100 cases a year in the U.S. and a lot of those were
acquired while folks were traveling, particularly to Mexico where they sell
unpasterized goat milk and cheese.
Now, TB is a whole other story with about 18,000 cases a year but those are
rarely from milk but brought here by refugees.
As to testing, the blood test for animals is one way but for milk you do a
ring test. If I were going to drink raw milk from animals I raised, I do
both tests.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <ElissaJC@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] cows
> Here is the info about brucillosis:
> <<Brucella, the bacterium, and brucellosis, the disease, are serious
> problems
> to people who eat meat, drink milk, and handle animals.
>
> Bovine brucella (in cattle) causes undulant fever in humans.
> You can get this from drinking milk which has not been pasturized, getting
> blood or other body fluids from infected cattle into wounds, or by
handling
> or eating raw meat or improperly cooked meat from an infected animal.
>
> Caprine brucella (in goats) causes, according to my local veterinarian,
> death in humans. The mother of one of his friends died from drinking
> unpasturized goat's milk.
>
> This same vet got brucellosis from an infected bovine while he was serving
> as a USDA meat inspector. He said he was fine when he went to work,
started
> to drive home that afternoon and pulled over to the side of the road sick
> as could be. He had to wait for someone to help him home because he was
too
> weak to drive.
>
> Brucellosis can kill. It usually just makes you feel sick enough to wish
> you were dead! ;-) A friend of mine contracted brucellosis while on a tour
> of Russia. He presumes he drank unpasturized milk.
>
> Brucellosis can be treated with antibiotics and supportive nursing.
>
> My state, South Carolina, has been brucella free for decades. There are
> stringent rules about any chattel (goats included) having to be blood
> tested for brucella before being transported into the state. The
> neighboring state, Georgia and Florida, were not brucella free when I was
> still in the dairy business. All milk sold in stores is pasturized
> sufficiently to kill the bacteria. Every load of milk leaving a dairy farm
> in a commercial truck is tested for brucella, as well as several other
> infectious conditions, like campylobacter, tb, and others.
>
> If you are buying unpasturized milk, I would know my supplier. If you are
> drinking your own cow's or goat's unpasturized milk, a blood test is not
> expensive and is worthwhile for peace of mind. We had our animals tested,
> even though the state is brucella free, once. Then we did not test again
> unless we brought new animals on the farm.
>
> Symptoms in humans: fever which rises and falls through the day
> weakness including shaking
> muscle and joint pain
> headache
>
> Under a microscope, the bacteria can be seen in the blood.>>
> ~Elissa Cleaveland
> "It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
> have
> not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
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>
>
>
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