forests and trees and illogical bits
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/13/05 8:26:25 AM, ddzimlew@... writes:
he didn't intend to look at Joyce's site, Pam's, unschooling.info or my site
because he didn't want dogma.
I nearly enjoyed reading this, from him to me, in private mail:
-=- You really know very little about education, psychology, social dynamics,
or much of anything else-=-
Lest I be accused of quoting out of context, it's below in its entirety, with
the response to which it referred. For the record, I'm posting this because
it's amusing, and after a long week of discussions in which our experiences are
slapped aside and we are left to feel very badly for young children in
families in which the parents think they can MAKE them read, levity can be
healing. The "you are free to post this" was the second "Pandora" thing.
================
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 7:34 PM
To: athe0007@...
Subject: Re: Pandora
-=-You are free to post this to your list.-=-
Of course I am, but I'm not going to post it because it's nonsense.
-=-Just in case you interpret my last message incorrectly,
what I was referring to, was that now that you've got
people thinking about these things, -=-
John Holt and other school reformers got people thinking about these things
long before I had children.
-=-they are (like the children) going to what to know the other side
and they're going to start looking. -=-
There is not one single unschooler who is unfamiliar with the school system.
Of the THOUSANDS who communicate about unschooling online, in magazines (Live
Free Learn Free; Life Learning; Home Education Magazine--I got The Link
newsletter today, and it has two artilcles on unschooling), on radio shows, at
conferences and in person, many have been teachers, and some are STILL teachers.
Most of their kids were in school. Many of them used to be school-at-home
families, but found that running an assembly line for one or two kids was
inefficient. What is this "other side" you're imagining they need to "start
looking" for? The newest of them seem to know more about school and home education
than you do.
-=- In order to sell "Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from
other perspectives-=-
I'm selling nothing. People have been sharing these ideas for thirty years.
Where have YOU been?
-=-What you're doing to people and children is unethical.-=-
You're not the arbiter of ethics, that's for certain.
I'm not doing anything "to people."
What I'm doing is writing. You do that.
The difference is that I'm writing about something I've been doing for
fifteen years.
You just seem to be writing whatever you think will get you attention.
If you would stop ranting and trying to stir people up about nothing and
spend more time with your children, their lives would be much better, your life
would be better, and the world would be better.
Pandora's box was not full of joy, peace and choices.
Unschooling isn't hiding anything away or sheltering people from other
ideas.
There is no box.
Unschooling and unschoolers exist in the whole real world every day. There
are no "school days," there is no "non-educational." There is the world, and
there is learning.
I don't own unschooling. Our list isn't the only unschooling list. I just
put unschooling in the yahoogroups search and got 563 results.
Google.com:
Results 1 - 10 of about 367,000 for unschooling.
How is it you're so hyperactively trying to blame me, and one discussion
list, for your personal ignorance?
Sandra
=====================
His response:
=====================
You really know very little about education, psychology, social dynamics,
or much of anything else other than your *way.* I've been fighting
conventional educators for more than ten years and on a personal
level since I dropped out of high school. I think very little
of the public schools, which is why we are homeschooling. The only
way you can not show your ignorance is to silence others. I picked
your unschooler group because it was at the top of the Yahoo search
I did and BECAUSE your group description said that people have to
be able to come out of their "comfort zones." I have a genuine interest
in unschooling for both professional and personal reasons, but
coincidentally
I happen to enjoy battling ignorance and censorship which is one reason I'm
still hanging around your group and I must admit that there is still
something there to learn. Don't worry I'll move on in a while and you
can preach to your converts in peace. Oh, and please tell me that
you don't derive any income from your activities so that I can believe you
when you say you don't profit from this.
=================(There was no more to that e-mail.)==============
I really hope this guy never gets a PhD in education. I'm sorry to hear
he's teaching (if he actually is) in a university.
The only way I can not show my ignorance is to silence others.
Is that intended to mean that if I were to unloose the silencing spells, my
ignorance would show?
It's one of those statements that's fun to just turn over in my mind, kind of
like finding an interesting little rock and carrying it in my pocket for a
while, to feel it and look at it and wonder how it got that way.
" You really know very little about education, psychology, social dynamics,
or much of anything else other than your *way.* "
and
"The only way you can not show your ignorance is to silence others."
Interesting little nuggets.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> When specifically asked what you'd like to know you said you didn't wantSomewhere, in the private mails I think (there were LOTS Of those) he said
> to hear about individual children but about unschoolers as a whole.
> "The forest" you said, not the trees.
>
he didn't intend to look at Joyce's site, Pam's, unschooling.info or my site
because he didn't want dogma.
I nearly enjoyed reading this, from him to me, in private mail:
-=- You really know very little about education, psychology, social dynamics,
or much of anything else-=-
Lest I be accused of quoting out of context, it's below in its entirety, with
the response to which it referred. For the record, I'm posting this because
it's amusing, and after a long week of discussions in which our experiences are
slapped aside and we are left to feel very badly for young children in
families in which the parents think they can MAKE them read, levity can be
healing. The "you are free to post this" was the second "Pandora" thing.
================
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 7:34 PM
To: athe0007@...
Subject: Re: Pandora
-=-You are free to post this to your list.-=-
Of course I am, but I'm not going to post it because it's nonsense.
-=-Just in case you interpret my last message incorrectly,
what I was referring to, was that now that you've got
people thinking about these things, -=-
John Holt and other school reformers got people thinking about these things
long before I had children.
-=-they are (like the children) going to what to know the other side
and they're going to start looking. -=-
There is not one single unschooler who is unfamiliar with the school system.
Of the THOUSANDS who communicate about unschooling online, in magazines (Live
Free Learn Free; Life Learning; Home Education Magazine--I got The Link
newsletter today, and it has two artilcles on unschooling), on radio shows, at
conferences and in person, many have been teachers, and some are STILL teachers.
Most of their kids were in school. Many of them used to be school-at-home
families, but found that running an assembly line for one or two kids was
inefficient. What is this "other side" you're imagining they need to "start
looking" for? The newest of them seem to know more about school and home education
than you do.
-=- In order to sell "Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from
other perspectives-=-
I'm selling nothing. People have been sharing these ideas for thirty years.
Where have YOU been?
-=-What you're doing to people and children is unethical.-=-
You're not the arbiter of ethics, that's for certain.
I'm not doing anything "to people."
What I'm doing is writing. You do that.
The difference is that I'm writing about something I've been doing for
fifteen years.
You just seem to be writing whatever you think will get you attention.
If you would stop ranting and trying to stir people up about nothing and
spend more time with your children, their lives would be much better, your life
would be better, and the world would be better.
Pandora's box was not full of joy, peace and choices.
Unschooling isn't hiding anything away or sheltering people from other
ideas.
There is no box.
Unschooling and unschoolers exist in the whole real world every day. There
are no "school days," there is no "non-educational." There is the world, and
there is learning.
I don't own unschooling. Our list isn't the only unschooling list. I just
put unschooling in the yahoogroups search and got 563 results.
Google.com:
Results 1 - 10 of about 367,000 for unschooling.
How is it you're so hyperactively trying to blame me, and one discussion
list, for your personal ignorance?
Sandra
=====================
His response:
=====================
You really know very little about education, psychology, social dynamics,
or much of anything else other than your *way.* I've been fighting
conventional educators for more than ten years and on a personal
level since I dropped out of high school. I think very little
of the public schools, which is why we are homeschooling. The only
way you can not show your ignorance is to silence others. I picked
your unschooler group because it was at the top of the Yahoo search
I did and BECAUSE your group description said that people have to
be able to come out of their "comfort zones." I have a genuine interest
in unschooling for both professional and personal reasons, but
coincidentally
I happen to enjoy battling ignorance and censorship which is one reason I'm
still hanging around your group and I must admit that there is still
something there to learn. Don't worry I'll move on in a while and you
can preach to your converts in peace. Oh, and please tell me that
you don't derive any income from your activities so that I can believe you
when you say you don't profit from this.
=================(There was no more to that e-mail.)==============
>-=- The only way you can not show your ignorance is to silence others. -=-
> Still thinking about this one:
I really hope this guy never gets a PhD in education. I'm sorry to hear
he's teaching (if he actually is) in a university.
The only way I can not show my ignorance is to silence others.
Is that intended to mean that if I were to unloose the silencing spells, my
ignorance would show?
It's one of those statements that's fun to just turn over in my mind, kind of
like finding an interesting little rock and carrying it in my pocket for a
while, to feel it and look at it and wonder how it got that way.
" You really know very little about education, psychology, social dynamics,
or much of anything else other than your *way.* "
and
"The only way you can not show your ignorance is to silence others."
Interesting little nuggets.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]