janddplus5

Good morning ya'll,

I am sure that most if not all of you have had to deal with others
(family, friends or complete strangers for that matter)tell you that
homeschooling/unschooling is not healthy and that you need to put
your kids in school. I hear this: Your kids are so sweet, so well
behaved and smart, but I feel that I need to say this..."You need to
put those kids in school!!! They need socialization and what about
all they'll miss learining in school?"

I don't so much care what they think, but at the same time I never
have any snappy comeback. Matter of fact with the above comment,
which was is by the way an exact quote, I responded if they are so
well behaved, sweet and smart how do you think they got that way?
Only the oldest has ever been to school and that was only part of
kindergarten for half the year before we pulled him out.

I guess I feel like if I had statistics on how lousy of a job
schools do I would have a more of a leg up on those who challenge me
all the time. It seems from reading here for a while that you all
know all kinds of facts or just stuff in general about the ps
system. I read and study all the time about UNSCHOOLING!!! I am
trying to fix broken relationships, learn how to better respect and
encourage my kids. I don't have time to read all the other stuff
about ps.

Well I was just wondering if there were others like me. Others who
just don't have the time to keep up with what ps does since it
really doesn't affect what I am doing with my kids. I also find it
too depressing. I just wish that our lives would be proof enough
that this is the right way...at least for us! Why should others
demand proof of our choices? Esp. when I am not trying to tell them
they have to do it my way!!!

Dana, who is sighing her way through outside relationships.

Ren Allen

"I hear this: Your kids are so sweet, so well
behaved and smart, but I feel that I need to say this..."You need to
put those kids in school!!! They need socialization and what about
all they'll miss learining in school?""

Look them in the eye and snap "I prefer civilized to socialized, thank
you" and say no more.:)

I DON'T get lame comments like that anymore. But I choose the kind of
people I want to surround myself with. The ones I don't have a choice
about meeting, and don't understand unschooling usually decide after
one conversation with me, that I'm not worth the hassle. hehe

Ren

Ren

camden

I think we should make up t-shirts saying this !!
Carol
*******************

Look them in the eye and snap "I prefer civilized to socialized, thank
you" and say no more.:)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

janddplus5

I DON'T get lame comments like that anymore. But I choose the kind of
> people I want to surround myself with. The ones I don't have a choice
> about meeting, and don't understand unschooling usually decide after
> one conversation with me, that I'm not worth the hassle. hehe
>
> Ren


I do, because most of them are family then friends then strangers.
Oddly enough though I really mostly have to deal with it on the phone
and less often in person. We are a military family and we don't
generally see people enough for them to even make a true judgment any
way.

And why is it that people presume, without invitation, that they have
a right to determine and then all but insist that I put my children in
school? I would never presume that someone even wanted me to tell
them how to live their life and I most certainly would only offer my
opinion or advice if they sincerely requested it. (even then with
caution, because some really don't want the advice they are soliciting
KWIM)

Dana

aplan4life

> I do, because most of them are family then friends then
strangers.
> Oddly enough though I really mostly have to deal with it on the
phone
> and less often in person. We are a military family and we don't
> generally see people enough for them to even make a true judgment
any
> way.

I still do too. What makes it especially "hard" other than the fact
that I'm still a newby to unschooling is that my family is filled
with kids who LOVE and THRIVE in the school setting. Using "stats"
wouldn't work because they are happy in school, their friends are
happy, the family relationship is happy. Despite the fact that they
run around and not only do school but sports and extra-curricular
clubs, everyone is happy. The friends I have, the same, their
children absolutely love school and cannot imagine life without it.
They still have passions and joy and love learning, so this whole
philosophy does not fly with them. My step-brother and wife and
kids go camping and fishing all of the time, etc. My Aunt and
Uncles children love school and still explore their passions and
they do much just like my brothers family.

Too them kids can truly enjoy life despite being schooled and "to
them" my kids not only aren't able to keep up but are missing out.

~Sandy Winn

Betsy Hill

**I hear this: Your kids are so sweet, so well
behaved and smart, but I feel that I need to say this..."You need to
put those kids in school!!! They need socialization and what about
all they'll miss learining in school?"**

Yeah. The main difference people notice about homeschooled kids is that
they are nicer and can talk to adults. "Oh, no!" people shudder, "those
homeschooled kids are so different!" (Give me a break!)

My potential snappy comeback is that if I thought my kid was going to
grow up and go to prison, I'd send him to Jr. High School now to toughen
him up and teach him those institutional rules. Otherwise it is
irrelevant.

**Why should others
demand proof of our choices? **

I agree with you that it's not anyone else's business.

Betsy

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: janddplus5 <janddplus5@...>

Well I was just wondering if there were others like me. Others who
just don't have the time to keep up with what ps does since it
really doesn't affect what I am doing with my kids. I also find it
too depressing. I just wish that our lives would be proof enough
that this is the right way...at least for us! Why should others
demand proof of our choices? Esp. when I am not trying to tell them
they have to do it my way!!!

-=-=-=-

Well, I keep up with the progressive private school goings-on, so that's why I was SOOOO taken aback by what I found on Michael's site. I really thought the schools were trying ('though failing miserably!) to be better. I thought they were putting out *some* kind of effort to make schools a better place to be and to move into the 21st century. Hell, there are new schools and school buildings going up here every month! We have "Speaking of Schools" on NPR (and although I hardly ever agree with them, they seem to be *trying*). There are reports almost weekly on the local news about changes they want to see. The Superintendent of Education is *highly* visible and in the news almost daily----but then again, she wants to be governor---and test the hell out of kids!

But I guess I was wrong. Or deluded. Or sheltered. <g>

But I have rude awakenings every now and then: We had two convicts escape a couple of weeks ago. All the area schools were in lock-down. No one in or out. Our 12 year old neighbor said that they weren't even allowed to go to the bathroom all day---just allowed to change classes. One girl had diarrhea. Eleven years old.

We also have a "Reading First" elementary school---it's where Duncan is zoned. What the HELL does that *mean*, anyway???

But to answer your question... <g>

I have no faith that someone who doesn't know me OR my children will know what they need to know. I *DO* know that Cameron's friends are having a really hard time in high school now---and I'm NOT talking academically: they're all "passing" their classes. They're having a hard time emotionally, spiritually (not Christian-based---but in their own hearts---the "breath" part of spiritual), socially, economically---not to mention relationship-wise with their families and with the world. They have no direction. No passions. NOTHING. They're empty.

My unschooled teen is RICH with ALL those things. I have all the proof *I* need. I usually just wave my hand and say that the proof is in the pudding. And I'm a patient cook. <g>

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/13/05 7:31:50 AM, janddplus5@... writes:


>
> I don't so much care what they think, but at the same time I never
> have any snappy comeback. 
>

I said this a few times, in such cases, when Kirby was little:


Well, if this stops working, we'll put him in school.



Those relatives and friends have a couple of motivations when they say what
they say. They want to comfort themselves with assurance (all involving the
voice in their heads, and the children they once were) that school was good for
them in some way, that they didn't go to school for nothing. You're coming
dangerously close to causing them to have to review everything in their whole
lives and they don't want to do do that. The other thing they want to feel
better about is that you haven't gone totally insane, and so if you say "If
this doesn't work, we'll put him in school," they will feel that you're
constantly assessing the situation and that school IS an option for you, and that
maybe they will have their own nervous fears soothed in the end, and that THEY
(not you) will get to say "I told you so."

Let them have that little hope. It will keep them calmer and quieter, and
it will also probably make them more likely to really look at your kids not in
the light of their being lost forever, but as possible future schoolkids.
It costs you nothing, and defuses the hostility.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

janddplus5

Let them have that little hope. It will keep them calmer and
quieter, and
it will also probably make them more likely to really look at your
kids not in
the light of their being lost forever, but as possible future
schoolkids.
It costs you nothing, and defuses the hostility.

Sandra

***Oh Sandra,

You sound just like my peace loving husband. So sweet and
considerate. I always open mouth and insert foot, leg, hips you get
my point. I am never trying to be nasty or even challenging, but I
guess I am found offensive in my efforts to defend why our children
are not in school.

My husband always just yes's what he can, calmly stands his ground
when he can't agree and remains unscathed the whole while. Me, I
tend to feel defensive all deep down inside and it feels like I am
being tortured and if they keep it up long enough we'll "see the
light" so to speak.

I like your idea and will probably use that very line the next time
I am under fire. With school teachers in the family maybe they
won't feel as personally insulted by our choosing to keep our
children home as it seems they do now.

We have expressed to most of these people that one of the major
reasons that we keep our children out of school is because we feel
that we love them, know them and care about their future and
happiness more than anyone else every will. It's nothing personal
against them it is just how we feel.

Dana

janddplus5

--- In [email protected], camden <ccoutlaw@d...>
wrote:
>
> I think we should make up t-shirts saying this !!
> Carol
> *******************
>
> Look them in the eye and snap "I prefer civilized to socialized,
thank
> you" and say no more.:)

Carol - great idea I'll need 7 in various sizes.

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/13/05 9:27:07 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:


> We had two convicts escape a couple of weeks ago. All the area schools were
> in lock-down. No one in or out. Our 12 year old neighbor said that they
> weren't even allowed to go to the bathroom all day---just allowed to change
> classes. One girl had diarrhea. Eleven years old.
>

So wait...
One jail had an escape so ALL jails were in lockdown!???

<bwg>

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

janddplus5

>
> **Why should others
> demand proof of our choices? **
>
> I agree with you that it's not anyone else's business.
>
> Betsy
>


Ya know I think that this probably bothers me more than anything
else. I can't imagine calling up my ______ and telling them "Hey I
think you should pull Johnny out of school and that you should quit
your job to raise him. Also maybe you should lose the bedtime and
computer controls and for pete's sake if you really cared at all
about him you would just take my advice!!!"

In any given setting I feel very strongly that no other person
should ever be so comfortable with another human being to just blurt
out whatever is on their mind with out regard as to the other
persons feelings. For example "I really don't think you should wear
your hair like that it looks like crap!" Happens all the time, I
don't get it maybe it is just me. Maybe I am naive to what is
socially acceptable discourse between two or more people.

Dana

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: janddplus5 janddplus5@...

I like your idea and will probably use that very line the next time
I am under fire. With school teachers in the family maybe they
won't feel as personally insulted by our choosing to keep our
children home as it seems they do now.

-=-=-=-=-

One of the Blue Collar comedians (sorry---can't remember his name) has an opening that's similar to how I feel this time of year. Ben, my husband, has a brother who's a medical doctor, a sister who is a teacher, and two sisters who are nurses.

But this comedian's opener is: I have a brother who's a doctor, a sister who's a lawyer,...










AND I HATE THANKSGIVING!

<g>



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/13/05 10:37:10 AM, janddplus5@... writes:


> We have expressed to most of these people that one of the major
> reasons that we keep our children out of school is because we feel
> that we love them, know them and care about their future and
> happiness more than anyone else every will.  It's nothing personal
> against them it is just how we feel.
>

But you can still believe all that and say "If this doesn't seem to be
working anymore, we'll put them in school." And when I said things like that I
always thought "But why would it not work!? It works GREAT," and I didn't say
it. Because honestly, at the heart of it, if it HAD stopped working,
schools are all around us. Free government schools that would welcome my children
with open arms, and snarky comments on the side, probably, that they would
have to eat later, but hey... none of that was going to be my problem.

Kirby never did go to school and he's 19 now.
Marty never did go to school and he's 16. Nearly past the compulsory
attendance point.
Holly liked to visit school; visited Monte Vista Elementary, visited in
England (wore a uniform and everything), visited Sandia Prep school, seriously
considered going to 8th grade at the nearest mid-school. She decided not to go
to school. She's 14. She still might. But from my own point of view,
"it's still working," and so I won't put her in school.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb Lewis

***I don't so much care what they think, but at the same time I never
have any snappy comeback.***

Ten things to try next time...

***..."You need to
put those kids in school!!! ***


1. You need to mind your own business! <said with cheerful smile>
2. A Google News search for "teacher charged" resulted in 2,960 hits. If
I want my kids molested, assaulted or under the direct influence of
drunks and drug users I'll just abandon them on the streets.
3. A Google News search for "assault at school" resulted in 6,510 hits.
We don't have enough medical coverage for that kind of socialization.
4. The only other people compelled into institutions are convicted
criminals. What other social traits do you think my children should
share with prisoners?
5. I would but they have ATT. < autodidactic traits and tendencies>
6. Well fry mah hide! We figerd we'd git em some ah that fancy book
learnin' once'd they's ah breedin' age.
7. 95 percent of the time 67 percent of homeschoolers surpass 42 percent
of public schoolers in making up 78 percent of nonsense statistics.
8. <shouting> I'm sorry, what did you say? I have this massive ear
infection and when the pus sack is just about to explode I can't hear a
thing!
9. What's that on your nose?
10. Make me.

Deb L

janddplus5

OMG!!!!

That is hysterical. You should get paid for these. I could never
have come up with this. I think I'll print it and carry it in my
pocket since we don't do much for memorizing around here <VBG>.

Thanks for the lines and the laugh!

Dana

Deb Lewis

***I don't so much care what they think, but at the same time I never
have any snappy comeback.***

When Dylan was younger we'd get this kind of thing too.
I used to have this fantasy. In my fantasy I'd have little cards printed
with these words:
"You would not believe how little I care what you think."

When people would make comments to me about what I "should" do, I'd
imagine myself saying, brightly "OH! I have something for you!" Then,
I'd hand them the card, all pretty and sweet in a little friendly looking
envelope and walk away.

Now I think I'd just use a can of Mace. <g> But that's just me.

Deb L

elainegh8

I don't have any answers for you really. Your question did bring up
things for me though. I see most unschoolers talk about how 'good'
their childrens' behaviour is. My daughter is not always good. Her
behaviour can sometimes be found unacceptable by people. Sometimes
her behaviour can be exceptional in people's eyes and they wow about
her, but are then stunned when she has a no coping time.

She has difficulties with some social and other situations and
other people do not understand (or want to undertand) that she has
the unacceptable behaviour at that time because she can't cope or is
very stressed. She acts out when under stress. I am loath to put a
diagnostic label on my child but I do know what it is, she is
Dyspraxic.

My child is not acceptable to some people. She is not compliant, she
is not always polite, she can be very volatile. Some people think if
I sent her to school she would somehow miraculously become 'normal'.
They are so far from the truth they are out of our atmosphere. She
was quite violent as a toddler and up to about age 6. People do not
see how far she has come they only see her 'bad' behaviour.

If she had been in school (they start at 4/5 locally) she would have
been labelled with a behaviour disorder and called disruptive.

She is also highly intelligent but struggles with some ordinary
things like hair brushing. People do not understand (again they
don't want to) that these kinds of things are very difficult for
her. The asumption is always it is because she is not at school,
bizarre idea I know but that's what people think :S

I am mostly OK with this. I've been a home educator for over 12
years and other people's disapproval is something I'm used to. I
don't however have a come back for these people.

My child is seen as the unacceptable side of home education, by
home educators not just school people, when in fact home education
has allowed her to lead a fairly normal life without being labelled
or put in to some kind of special group. Because her difficulties
are not obvious then any problems she has are put down to
unschooling. It is flipping annoying to tell the truth.

BWs Elaine

janddplus5

--- In [email protected], Deb Lewis
<ddzimlew@j...> wrote:
>
> ***I don't so much care what they think, but at the same time I
never
> have any snappy comeback.***
>
> When Dylan was younger we'd get this kind of thing too.
> I used to have this fantasy. In my fantasy I'd have little cards
printed
> with these words:
> "You would not believe how little I care what you think."
>
> When people would make comments to me about what I "should" do, I'd
> imagine myself saying, brightly "OH! I have something for you!"
Then,
> I'd hand them the card, all pretty and sweet in a little friendly
looking
> envelope and walk away.
>
> Now I think I'd just use a can of Mace. <g> But that's just me.
>
> Deb L
>

Deb-

If I had known that my question was gonna solicit such wildly
hysterical responses I would have prepared myself.
1. a box of tissues to dry the tears of laughter
2. tylenol - geez my cheeks hurt from smiling and laughing
3. a friend who could relate to laugh with me.

Thanks so much to everyone for their response. I may not handle all
situations well, but at least now I have the ammo.

Dana

Pamela Sorooshian

First - how old are their kids?

Second - the answer is to just say, as you did in your post, "This is
what I think will work best for us." (FOR US - is important because
you aren't trying to talk them into thinking it is best for them, too.)

-pam

On Nov 13, 2005, at 7:35 AM, aplan4life wrote:

> I still do too. What makes it especially "hard" other than the fact
> that I'm still a newby to unschooling is that my family is filled
> with kids who LOVE and THRIVE in the school setting. Using "stats"
> wouldn't work because they are happy in school, their friends are
> happy, the family relationship is happy. Despite the fact that they
> run around and not only do school but sports and extra-curricular
> clubs, everyone is happy. The friends I have, the same, their
> children absolutely love school and cannot imagine life without it.
> They still have passions and joy and love learning, so this whole
> philosophy does not fly with them. My step-brother and wife and
> kids go camping and fishing all of the time, etc. My Aunt and
> Uncles children love school and still explore their passions and
> they do much just like my brothers family.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb Lewis

*** "This is what I think will work best for us."***

Sandra has suggested "We're going to try this for awhile."
You could add, if they persist. "I know we have a lot of options if we
decide to try something else."

It's hard, but as your kids get older there'll be fewer comments. A
liberating moment for me was when I realized I didn't owe anyone an
explanation. I could just smile and say, "We like things the way they
are."

All of the people who know us, all of them, were skeptical at first.
None of them bother us about it now. Some still believe it's a fluke
that Dylan has turned out ok so far, <g> but no one wonders what or
whether he's learning.

Deb L

janddplus5

--- In [email protected], "elainegh8"
<elainegh8@h...> wrote:
>
> I don't have any answers for you really. Your question did bring
up
> things for me though. I see most unschoolers talk about
how 'good'
> their childrens' behaviour is. My daughter is not always good. Her
> behaviour can sometimes be found unacceptable by people. Sometimes
> her behaviour can be exceptional in people's eyes and they wow
about
> her, but are then stunned when she has a no coping time.
>

{{{HUGS}}} I think the first thing I thought when you wrote this
was what I had written. The comment from the one person was a
quote, but I get many on how well behaved my kids are. Well it is
not that they are not well behaved now, but alot of the reason my
children "were" so well behaved is because we lived an almost cult-
like Christian lifestyle.(whole 'nother topic) My children weren't
allowed to misbehave (ever)which meant...
1. never having an opinion that didn't match ours (dh and I)
2. never had a choice or other option other than what we dictated to
them.
3. not having an opinion or a choice means being quiet and agreeable
for the most part.
4. My children were so sheltered that they had no idea what
rebelling even was (or at least the younger ones)
5. The sad and sorry list goes on and on...

I know your situation is different but for my family having perfect
and obedient children came at a great price to those children. One
that I will spend the remainder of my days trying to mend and erase
from their memories.

Now my kids are amazing when they are good and equally as amazing
when they are naughty(antagonizing each other). They voice their
opinion now and we struggle through and remind ourselves when they
are hard to deal with that it is because of what we did to them.
(not your case I am sure, but it is mine).

We have really great runs where for a couple weeks their behavior
and actions are mild and wonderful to live with and then we will
have (like last week) a couple days in a row where it is very
frustrating. My dh wanted to throw in the towel due to this last
week, but I reminded him that you can't turn around a lifetime of
mistakes, and expect to have no bumps in the road, overnight.

My biggest problem is helping them to find an acceptable way to
express anger and frustration. A way that isn't hurtful or harmful
to other members of the family. This is not easy cause my kids have
never been allowed to express themselves. It's like starting from
the beginning, only with a new baby they don't have the years of
oppression to hamper thier learning.


> She has difficulties with some social and other situations and
> other people do not understand (or want to undertand) that she has
> the unacceptable behaviour at that time because she can't cope or
is
> very stressed. She acts out when under stress. I am loath to put
a
> diagnostic label on my child but I do know what it is, she is
> Dyspraxic.
>
> My child is not acceptable to some people. She is not compliant,
she
> is not always polite, she can be very volatile. Some people think
if
> I sent her to school she would somehow miraculously
become 'normal'.
> They are so far from the truth they are out of our atmosphere. She
> was quite violent as a toddler and up to about age 6. People do
not
> see how far she has come they only see her 'bad' behaviour.
>
> If she had been in school (they start at 4/5 locally) she would
have
> been labelled with a behaviour disorder and called disruptive.
>
> She is also highly intelligent but struggles with some ordinary
> things like hair brushing. People do not understand (again they
> don't want to) that these kinds of things are very difficult for
> her. The asumption is always it is because she is not at school,
> bizarre idea I know but that's what people think :S

It is strange to me that people would think it is because she is not
in school. I guess because "most" (not all) of the schooled kids
that "I" personally know are not nice, patient, considerate or well
behaved, but I don't know a ton of kids so maybe it is just this
select group. That is just my experience...of course other people's
experience probably comes from what they see everyday and their own
idea of normal. Which actually their idea of normal may very well
be based on what I see as the current trend of how terribly kids
treat each other. I hope that made sense <G>

Dana

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/13/05 1:14:09 PM, elainegh8@... writes:


> -=-She has difficulties with some social and other situations and
> other people do not understand (or want to undertand) that she has
> the unacceptable behaviour at that time because she can't cope or is
> very stressed. -=-
>

Isn't her life better outside school than it would be in, in light of that?

-=- She acts out when under stress.-=-

So isn't her life better, and yours, that when she acts out it doesn't
involve other people's property or children, that it doesn't involve disciplinary
action at school, or meetings with teachers, or public embarrassment for her
when you're not even present, bad report cards, etc?

That's got to make her life better.

-=- Some people think if
I sent her to school she would somehow miraculously become 'normal'.-=-

That's sad, and a little funny in the wistfully-funny category, but sad that
they really think those behaviors would go away in the crazy-cooker of school.


-=- People do not see how far she has come they only see her 'bad'
behaviour.-=-

They don't need to see how far she's come; just you do. If her behavior's
not good for some situations, she just needs to not be in those situations.
That's true of everybody, for all their lives, not just childhood. There are
places I really don't need to be because I wouldn't behave well. I need to
stay far away from parent-teacher-organizations and rallies for fundraising for
education. I need to not work in a bank. I need to not play organized
sports; I can hardly even watch. Luckily, none of those things is required.

-=- Because her difficulties are not obvious then any problems she has are
put down to
unschooling.-=-

Keith and I have had a side hobby for years of noticing, when someone is on
the news for some bizarre behavior or a crime, what they choose to tell about
the person. They won't say "John Brown, a Catholic, was charged with murder
today." New Mexico is FULL of Catholics. But if he were a member of some
very minority group, that might be mentioned even if it had absolutely NOTHING
to do with why they were talking about him on TV. Or even without the
fifteen-word summary, in newspaper or magazine articles when they profile the person
they WILL mention notably rare traits, but not the common ones. That's
natural, I guess.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

First - thanks for the reminder that we NEVER know where a child has
started and how much progress they've made.

Second - your daughter is one LUCKY kid. I've read a book by a
teenage girl with dyspraxia and how much of the difficulty in her
life came about because of schooling and also nobody protecting her
from being bullied. The book was called, "Caged in Chaos," in case
you're interested. I couldn't help thinking, throughout, that much
of her stress would have been relieved by just not going to school.
Regular life would have been enough of a challenge, but the focus on
structure and order in school was incredibly stressful and then the
meanness of school kids just topped it all off.

-pam


On Nov 13, 2005, at 12:11 PM, elainegh8 wrote:

> My child is seen as the unacceptable side of home education, by
> home educators not just school people, when in fact home education
> has allowed her to lead a fairly normal life without being labelled
> or put in to some kind of special group. Because her difficulties
> are not obvious then any problems she has are put down to
> unschooling. It is flipping annoying to tell the truth.



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elainegh8

Thanks Pam
and everyone else who responded, and gave me things to
think about, much appreciated. I have that book Caged In Chaos, it's
a very good book. Must admit I thought the same thing as you...she'd
have been much better off not being at school.

I identified with the writer up to a point as I also went to
boarding school and dd's dyspraxia did not come out of thin air. I
like the book as I have found it has lots of useful practical tips
for getting by in everyday life.

Dd is only just learning to understand her own body. She is just
starting to differentiate being tired from being ill. Up until the
last month or so when she was tired (including that just waking up
feeling) she was always convinced that she was ill and had some
disease. She's just started noticing the feeling of being tired and
how it makes her feel in her body and emotionally.

She can't yet tell for herself situations where she is going to melt
down. I can tell but she often wants to go to things that will
affect her negatively. It's a hard balance to find. We talk a lot
about potential situations happening so I can try and give her tips
to manage.

She's highly intelligent, very verbaly confident with a rich
vocabulary. It throws people for a loop that she finds some every
day things hard. They just don't get it. I guess it's the habit of
trying to fit people in to little boxes.

Unschooling is an absolute blessing for our family. Atm she's in the
kitchen with my partner as they're making ginger biscuits :)

BWs Elaine


> First - thanks for the reminder that we NEVER know where a child
has
> started and how much progress they've made.
>
> Second - your daughter is one LUCKY kid. I've read a book by a
> teenage girl with dyspraxia and how much of the difficulty in her
> life came about because of schooling and also nobody protecting
her
> from being bullied. The book was called, "Caged in Chaos," in
case
> you're interested. I couldn't help thinking, throughout, that
much
> of her stress would have been relieved by just not going to
school.
> Regular life would have been enough of a challenge, but the focus
on
> structure and order in school was incredibly stressful and then
the
> meanness of school kids just topped it all off.
>
> -pam
>

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Deb Lewis ddzimlew@...

1. You need to mind your own business! <said with cheerful smile>
2. A Google News search for "teacher charged" resulted in 2,960 hits. If
I want my kids molested, assaulted or under the direct influence of
drunks and drug users I'll just abandon them on the streets.
3. A Google News search for "assault at school" resulted in 6,510 hits.
We don't have enough medical coverage for that kind of socialization.
4. The only other people compelled into institutions are convicted
criminals. What other social traits do you think my children should
share with prisoners?
5. I would but they have ATT. < autodidactic traits and tendencies>
6. Well fry mah hide! We figerd we'd git em some ah that fancy book
learnin' once'd they's ah breedin' age.
7. 95 percent of the time 67 percent of homeschoolers surpass 42 percent
of public schoolers in making up 78 percent of nonsense statistics.
8. <shouting> I'm sorry, what did you say? I have this massive ear
infection and when the pus sack is just about to explode I can't hear a
thing!
9. What's that on your nose?
10. Make me.

Deb L

-=-=-=-=-

And everyone wonders why I want to marry this woman! <g>

~Kelly,


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Pamela Sorooshian

On Nov 13, 2005, at 2:12 PM, elainegh8 wrote:

> She's highly intelligent, very verbaly confident with a rich
> vocabulary. It throws people for a loop that she finds some every
> day things hard. They just don't get it. I guess it's the habit of
> trying to fit people in to little boxes.

Yep. My middle child - she's 18 now and suddenly seems very capable -
but I remember when, at 13 or 14, I realized she couldn't use a can
opener. There were always things she had trouble with - that seemed
very out of line with her intellect and even with her own
introspective abilities. She told me the other day that she still
has trouble picking up social clues from people. Her example is that
she's hanging around the college theater where she does shows, with a
group of other people, and some are talking about going out to eat.
She never used to know if she was "invited" or not. It would be one
of those things where everybody was arranging rides and stuff, and
unless someone looked right at HER and asked, "Do you want to ride
with me?" she'd think she shouldn't go. Now she gets it that
everybody is 'invited" - that it is just a group thing and she can
just ask somebody, "Do you have room for me to ride with you?" But
she said, a couple of days ago, that she's starting to realize how
much social stuff just went over her head, in the past, and she
thinks it still does. "I" think that her interpersonal intelligence
is developing and she's becoming more aware and competent - so at the
same time that she's actually MORE competent, she's more aware of her
incompetence. She'd definitely happier, though, and enjoying
observing other people and thinking about how they interact with each
other and what it all means. Seems to me most girls, at least, do a
lot of this in their young teens, but my daughter didn't seem to have
an eye for it at all.

Her "intelligences" have been extreme and very uneven since she was
very very little - I think she's a kid whose brain develops that way
- huge big massive development in certain areas - she read fluently
at three years old and was reading adult-level literature at five,
for example. Socially, she had a lot of trouble - never was good at
reading other people.

Anyway - my point is that she certainly never fit into any box and it
was amazing how many people blamed her for that and blamed ME for
trying to make her life a bit easier (at the same time that I was, of
COURSE, supporting her learning to handle herself better, especially
in groups).

>
> Unschooling is an absolute blessing for our family. Atm she's in the
> kitchen with my partner as they're making ginger biscuits :)

Yum. Hot out-of-the-oven ginger cookies - crisp or chewy? Sounds
WONDERFUL. I'm going to make some too. And have them with tea.

-pam



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[email protected]

In a message dated 11/13/2005 3:37:22 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

I need to not work in a bank.


~~~

Sticky fingers?

Karen


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Su Penn

On Nov 13, 2005, at 3:03 PM, Deb Lewis wrote:

> ***I don't so much care what they think, but at the same time I never
> have any snappy comeback.***
>
> When Dylan was younger we'd get this kind of thing too. 
> I used to have this fantasy.  In my fantasy I'd have little cards
> printed
> with these words: 
> "You would not believe how little I care what you think." 

I love that! I am printing those little cards today!

One of my fantasies:

Jerk offers unsolicited advice. I say, "Oh, did I ask for your advice?"
They admit I did not. I say, "Well, then, I must not have wanted it."

There's a great family-joke line we've been using for years. It's from
the seventh season of Deep Space Nine when a subordinate fawningly
tells the head Founder (leader of the evil empire), "That's an
excellent idea!" She replies icily, "Your opinion was not solicited."

Miss Manners recommends saying, "Hmm, what an interesting notion," and
just moving on from there.

Su

[email protected]

I need  to not work in a bank.

~~~

Sticky fingers?

=========================================

Can't sit still long, can't remember numbers.

Very honest, just not at ease with responsibility to other people for
numerical stuff.

Also I don't want to dress up. <g>

Sandra


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