Food issues,unschooling
elainegh8
Hi
I have a search about to see if I could find any unschooling
articles that might help with my problem. My dd aged 9 has a weight
problem in that she is very overweight. She is not a junk food kid,
although she likes it, she also likes all her veggies etc
I find I am unable to let go my control over food. I'm afraid if I
do my dd will balloon to a vast size. She's really big already.
It's not what she eats but how much. Even when she was a baby and
breastfeeding (she was v v long term breastfed) she would suckle til
she was sick! It was overflow. She just doesn't seem to know how
much is enough. She will eat adult portions and then some more food.
It's not made in to a huge deal but I do give her smaller portions
than us (sometimes she complains cos it's not fair). I didn't
always do this and she would eat a whole adult sized meal, pudding
and then want fruit too. I also say if she is hungry she can have
unlimited fruit or other filling but low calorie food. Her meals are
still big!
She is very insistent that we have breakfast, lunch, dinner and
supper. If say we get up late she insists she has breakfast then
lunch immediately after as it is lunch 'time'. For her there is a
time for every meal, she likes knowing when things will be so if the
time is a bit off because we got up late or had dinner late she ends
up having 2 meals run together. For her it seems to be a cause of
anxiety that she might have 3 meals instead of 4.
I'm not really sure how to tackle it. I want to not enforce food
rules but I am also very concerned about her weight. Diabetes type 2
runs very strongly in my family so carrying excess weight is a
worry. She does have very poor bodily co-ordination as well so
excess weight makes movement more difficult for her.
She went on holiday with my mum and came back 6 pounds heavier this
year. She goes to her dads every weekend, last year she put 7lbs on
when on holiday with him and then more weight on holiday with my
mum. Her dad seems to have managed to stop putting weight on her but
my mum hasn't.
I do talk to dd about weight and health, emphasis on the health. I
don't talk to her very often as I don't want to make it in to a huge
issue. I think her older sister (aged 19) and my mum might have a go
at her about it though. She doesn't actually like being heavy. I
have said that she doesn't have to lose weight as she is a kid and
growing and to be a healthier weight she just has to stay the weight
she is.
I'm sure I'm doing this wrong. My older dd was a normal weight until
she left home and has now ballooned massively. I think it's my fault
as she wouldn't eat a healthy diet at all (still won't) and I made
it an issue and so did my mum as she gave her all junk food and I
said it was bad so she now thinks that not eating junk food all the
time is depravation, my fault. I am much more relaxed about food
with my younger one and she has never been faddy.
She is very bright in a reading kind of way but is somehow a
little 'different'. She has had difficulty understanding social cues
and social 'rules'. She was aggressive but isn't any more. Because
of her co-ordination difficulties she finds writing really hard.
She's an adult level reader, self taught. I sort of feel
her 'difference' is also connected to her eating but I'm not sure.
I've never heard her say she is full, ever.
Although I've written a lot here I do try and keep these thoughts of
mine away from dd as I worry that it will make her more anxious or
feel bad. All these thoughts go around my head. I do worry a lot I
have to say.
BWs Elaine (UK)
I have a search about to see if I could find any unschooling
articles that might help with my problem. My dd aged 9 has a weight
problem in that she is very overweight. She is not a junk food kid,
although she likes it, she also likes all her veggies etc
I find I am unable to let go my control over food. I'm afraid if I
do my dd will balloon to a vast size. She's really big already.
It's not what she eats but how much. Even when she was a baby and
breastfeeding (she was v v long term breastfed) she would suckle til
she was sick! It was overflow. She just doesn't seem to know how
much is enough. She will eat adult portions and then some more food.
It's not made in to a huge deal but I do give her smaller portions
than us (sometimes she complains cos it's not fair). I didn't
always do this and she would eat a whole adult sized meal, pudding
and then want fruit too. I also say if she is hungry she can have
unlimited fruit or other filling but low calorie food. Her meals are
still big!
She is very insistent that we have breakfast, lunch, dinner and
supper. If say we get up late she insists she has breakfast then
lunch immediately after as it is lunch 'time'. For her there is a
time for every meal, she likes knowing when things will be so if the
time is a bit off because we got up late or had dinner late she ends
up having 2 meals run together. For her it seems to be a cause of
anxiety that she might have 3 meals instead of 4.
I'm not really sure how to tackle it. I want to not enforce food
rules but I am also very concerned about her weight. Diabetes type 2
runs very strongly in my family so carrying excess weight is a
worry. She does have very poor bodily co-ordination as well so
excess weight makes movement more difficult for her.
She went on holiday with my mum and came back 6 pounds heavier this
year. She goes to her dads every weekend, last year she put 7lbs on
when on holiday with him and then more weight on holiday with my
mum. Her dad seems to have managed to stop putting weight on her but
my mum hasn't.
I do talk to dd about weight and health, emphasis on the health. I
don't talk to her very often as I don't want to make it in to a huge
issue. I think her older sister (aged 19) and my mum might have a go
at her about it though. She doesn't actually like being heavy. I
have said that she doesn't have to lose weight as she is a kid and
growing and to be a healthier weight she just has to stay the weight
she is.
I'm sure I'm doing this wrong. My older dd was a normal weight until
she left home and has now ballooned massively. I think it's my fault
as she wouldn't eat a healthy diet at all (still won't) and I made
it an issue and so did my mum as she gave her all junk food and I
said it was bad so she now thinks that not eating junk food all the
time is depravation, my fault. I am much more relaxed about food
with my younger one and she has never been faddy.
She is very bright in a reading kind of way but is somehow a
little 'different'. She has had difficulty understanding social cues
and social 'rules'. She was aggressive but isn't any more. Because
of her co-ordination difficulties she finds writing really hard.
She's an adult level reader, self taught. I sort of feel
her 'difference' is also connected to her eating but I'm not sure.
I've never heard her say she is full, ever.
Although I've written a lot here I do try and keep these thoughts of
mine away from dd as I worry that it will make her more anxious or
feel bad. All these thoughts go around my head. I do worry a lot I
have to say.
BWs Elaine (UK)
liberatedlearning
Hi,
I don't have any help to offer but just want to let you know that I have a similar concern
about my ds, 15. He's been heavy since he was seven or eight. I used to control food but
quit about two years ago. He still eats sneakily, like slipping into the kitchen after dinner
to eat leftovers or waiting until everyone is out of the house to eat a snack. I don't say
anything to him about it and I don't withhold food or voice value judgements about his
food choices. I try to have easy to eat, nutritious food available and I bring it to him at
times. I don't know how much he weighs because I don't ask him but I know he's gaining
lately. I can tell by looking at him and his clothes aren't fitting. He is not particularly
active, physically, but he does have a daily exercise routine that he's been doing for nine
months, of his own volition.
His father and I are both overweight too.
Ideas on what to do??
Tina
I don't have any help to offer but just want to let you know that I have a similar concern
about my ds, 15. He's been heavy since he was seven or eight. I used to control food but
quit about two years ago. He still eats sneakily, like slipping into the kitchen after dinner
to eat leftovers or waiting until everyone is out of the house to eat a snack. I don't say
anything to him about it and I don't withhold food or voice value judgements about his
food choices. I try to have easy to eat, nutritious food available and I bring it to him at
times. I don't know how much he weighs because I don't ask him but I know he's gaining
lately. I can tell by looking at him and his clothes aren't fitting. He is not particularly
active, physically, but he does have a daily exercise routine that he's been doing for nine
months, of his own volition.
His father and I are both overweight too.
Ideas on what to do??
Tina
--- In [email protected], "elainegh8" <elainegh8@h...> wrote:
> Hi
> I have a search about to see if I could find any unschooling
> articles that might help with my problem. My dd aged 9 has a weight
> problem in that she is very overweight. She is not a junk food kid,
> although she likes it, she also likes all her veggies etc
>
> I find I am unable to let go my control over food. I'm afraid if I
> do my dd will balloon to a vast size. She's really big already.
> It's not what she eats but how much. Even when she was a baby and
> breastfeeding (she was v v long term breastfed) she would suckle til
> she was sick! It was overflow. She just doesn't seem to know how
> much is enough. She will eat adult portions and then some more food.
>
> It's not made in to a huge deal but I do give her smaller portions
> than us (sometimes she complains cos it's not fair). I didn't
> always do this and she would eat a whole adult sized meal, pudding
> and then want fruit too. I also say if she is hungry she can have
> unlimited fruit or other filling but low calorie food. Her meals are
> still big!
>
> She is very insistent that we have breakfast, lunch, dinner and
> supper. If say we get up late she insists she has breakfast then
> lunch immediately after as it is lunch 'time'. For her there is a
> time for every meal, she likes knowing when things will be so if the
> time is a bit off because we got up late or had dinner late she ends
> up having 2 meals run together. For her it seems to be a cause of
> anxiety that she might have 3 meals instead of 4.
>
> I'm not really sure how to tackle it. I want to not enforce food
> rules but I am also very concerned about her weight. Diabetes type 2
> runs very strongly in my family so carrying excess weight is a
> worry. She does have very poor bodily co-ordination as well so
> excess weight makes movement more difficult for her.
>
> She went on holiday with my mum and came back 6 pounds heavier this
> year. She goes to her dads every weekend, last year she put 7lbs on
> when on holiday with him and then more weight on holiday with my
> mum. Her dad seems to have managed to stop putting weight on her but
> my mum hasn't.
>
> I do talk to dd about weight and health, emphasis on the health. I
> don't talk to her very often as I don't want to make it in to a huge
> issue. I think her older sister (aged 19) and my mum might have a go
> at her about it though. She doesn't actually like being heavy. I
> have said that she doesn't have to lose weight as she is a kid and
> growing and to be a healthier weight she just has to stay the weight
> she is.
>
> I'm sure I'm doing this wrong. My older dd was a normal weight until
> she left home and has now ballooned massively. I think it's my fault
> as she wouldn't eat a healthy diet at all (still won't) and I made
> it an issue and so did my mum as she gave her all junk food and I
> said it was bad so she now thinks that not eating junk food all the
> time is depravation, my fault. I am much more relaxed about food
> with my younger one and she has never been faddy.
>
> She is very bright in a reading kind of way but is somehow a
> little 'different'. She has had difficulty understanding social cues
> and social 'rules'. She was aggressive but isn't any more. Because
> of her co-ordination difficulties she finds writing really hard.
> She's an adult level reader, self taught. I sort of feel
> her 'difference' is also connected to her eating but I'm not sure.
>
> I've never heard her say she is full, ever.
>
> Although I've written a lot here I do try and keep these thoughts of
> mine away from dd as I worry that it will make her more anxious or
> feel bad. All these thoughts go around my head. I do worry a lot I
> have to say.
>
> BWs Elaine (UK)
Deb
There are also some 'conditions' for lack of a better term that cause
a person to not feel full, to not get that signal - google for Prader-
Willi Syndrome for example. So, there might be a biological issue that
needs to be addressed so she can understand feeling full, comfortable,
overfull, etc.
HTH
--Deb
a person to not feel full, to not get that signal - google for Prader-
Willi Syndrome for example. So, there might be a biological issue that
needs to be addressed so she can understand feeling full, comfortable,
overfull, etc.
HTH
--Deb
elainegh8
Hi
thanks Deb.I'm aware of Prader Willi syndrome. Definitely not
that. Prader Willi also comes with some learning disabilities and
often people will go in bins to get food. It's not as extreme as
that as she doesn't want to eat constantly, it's more the volume of
food.
BWs Elaine
thanks Deb.I'm aware of Prader Willi syndrome. Definitely not
that. Prader Willi also comes with some learning disabilities and
often people will go in bins to get food. It's not as extreme as
that as she doesn't want to eat constantly, it's more the volume of
food.
BWs Elaine
> There are also some 'conditions' for lack of a better term thatcause
> a person to not feel full, to not get that signal - google forPrader-
> Willi Syndrome for example. So, there might be a biological issuethat
> needs to be addressed so she can understand feeling full,comfortable,
> overfull, etc.
>
> HTH
> --Deb
Betsy Hill
**It's not as extreme as
that as she doesn't want to eat constantly, it's more the volume of
food.**
Do you suppose more liquids and more wet foods would help her feel like
she's getting enough?
Betsy
that as she doesn't want to eat constantly, it's more the volume of
food.**
Do you suppose more liquids and more wet foods would help her feel like
she's getting enough?
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/30/05 11:13:23 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:
Two tricks I've read about are eating slowly with long breaks during/between
bites (conversation, reading, activities that involve her hands, maybe, during
meals?) and eating out of a single small bowl, like a rice bowl, with no
refills until after some time has passed. I'm not sure they're *good* ideas,
but might be worth considering. They say (whoever "they" are) that it might
take 20 minutes for the "all's full" signal to reach the brain.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> **It's not as extreme as-----------------
> that as she doesn't want to eat constantly, it's more the volume of
> food.**
>
> Do you suppose more liquids and more wet foods would help her feel like
> she's getting enough?
>
Two tricks I've read about are eating slowly with long breaks during/between
bites (conversation, reading, activities that involve her hands, maybe, during
meals?) and eating out of a single small bowl, like a rice bowl, with no
refills until after some time has passed. I'm not sure they're *good* ideas,
but might be worth considering. They say (whoever "they" are) that it might
take 20 minutes for the "all's full" signal to reach the brain.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
chat with DH and DS at dinner (depends on what they're doing - if DS
is watching something and takes his dinner to the living room, I'll
often grab a magazine article to read). I have found that I will eat
less if I do this - don't know if it applies globally or not. And, I
know that DS, who has never had food regulation at all, tends to
stop when he's full regardless of whether he's just sitting and
eating or doing something at the time. So it could be a whole
combined ball o' wax of physiology and psychology and other 'stuff'.
I don't know how you'd go about "requiring" something like this
though without it becoming a whole different type of battle. Maybe
simply putting an interesting magazine article or a catalog or
something beside her plate at meals?
--Deb
>I do that - I'll read a magazine article at breakfast or read or
>
> Two tricks I've read about are eating slowly with long breaks
>during/between
> bites (conversation, reading, activities that involve her hands,
>maybe, during
> meals?) and eating out of a single small bowl, like a rice bowl,
>with no
> refills until after some time has passed. I'm not sure they're
>*good* ideas,
> but might be worth considering. They say (whoever "they" are)
>that >it might
> take 20 minutes for the "all's full" signal to reach the brain.
>
> Sandra
chat with DH and DS at dinner (depends on what they're doing - if DS
is watching something and takes his dinner to the living room, I'll
often grab a magazine article to read). I have found that I will eat
less if I do this - don't know if it applies globally or not. And, I
know that DS, who has never had food regulation at all, tends to
stop when he's full regardless of whether he's just sitting and
eating or doing something at the time. So it could be a whole
combined ball o' wax of physiology and psychology and other 'stuff'.
I don't know how you'd go about "requiring" something like this
though without it becoming a whole different type of battle. Maybe
simply putting an interesting magazine article or a catalog or
something beside her plate at meals?
--Deb
elainegh8
That's not a bad idea :)
BWs Elaine
BWs Elaine
> **It's not as extreme aslike
> that as she doesn't want to eat constantly, it's more the volume of
> food.**
>
> Do you suppose more liquids and more wet foods would help her feel
> she's getting enough?
>
> Betsy
elainegh8
Hi
thanks for the ideas. What I really don't want to do is replace one
rule with another,if you see what I mean. I'm trying hard not to go
too far.
I've just ordered a mini trampoline and a wobble board.I'm going to
use them but thought they might excite dd too. I told her I had
ordered them, she was very excited indeed. I think the wobble board
will help her with her co-ordination. So maybe more activity and more
drinks might help?
I know she really likes stuff like carrot sticks and cucumber sticks
and things. I could make loads of them and put them ready for her in
the fridge.
I've seen some really lovely lunch boxes on US sites that have
seperate containers with lids, colourful too. That would be great in
the fridge for her to help herself to. Can't find a damn thing like
that here (UK). I'm going to look for a food thermo flask too (again
not as nice as the ones in the US) so I can make her soup she can help
herself to, sure she'll love that :)
I guess I'm similar in some ways to her. I'm happier eating big meals
of low calorie food than small meals of calorie dense stuff. I'd like
to eat HUGE meals of calorie dense food but it makes me feel terrible!
Just as well I really like wholefood stuff and veggies :)
BWs Elaine
thanks for the ideas. What I really don't want to do is replace one
rule with another,if you see what I mean. I'm trying hard not to go
too far.
I've just ordered a mini trampoline and a wobble board.I'm going to
use them but thought they might excite dd too. I told her I had
ordered them, she was very excited indeed. I think the wobble board
will help her with her co-ordination. So maybe more activity and more
drinks might help?
I know she really likes stuff like carrot sticks and cucumber sticks
and things. I could make loads of them and put them ready for her in
the fridge.
I've seen some really lovely lunch boxes on US sites that have
seperate containers with lids, colourful too. That would be great in
the fridge for her to help herself to. Can't find a damn thing like
that here (UK). I'm going to look for a food thermo flask too (again
not as nice as the ones in the US) so I can make her soup she can help
herself to, sure she'll love that :)
I guess I'm similar in some ways to her. I'm happier eating big meals
of low calorie food than small meals of calorie dense stuff. I'd like
to eat HUGE meals of calorie dense food but it makes me feel terrible!
Just as well I really like wholefood stuff and veggies :)
BWs Elaine
Cally Brown
> MaybeI eat way more when I read (books, magazines - or e-mails like now) - I
> simply putting an interesting magazine article or a catalog or
> something beside her plate at meals?
eat without noticing, I guess, then 'need' more to get the feeling of
satisfaction.
Cally
nellebelle
>>>>>>>>>>>I find I am unable to let go my control over food. I'm afraid if Ido my dd will balloon to a vast size.>>>>>>>>>>>>
You can't know what will happen unless you do let go of the controls. Sandra's general advice of gradually letting go of controls would apply here. Don't just say "you can eat whatever you want", but say yes more when she asks for food.
It is possible that your dd will be a heavier person, no matter what you do or don't do. For the most part, good nutrition and physical activity are more important than body weight. Also, between 8 and 12 is a normal time for kids to put on extra weight in preparation for a final growth spurt.
Is she interested in nutrition? My kids have recently become very interested in "serving sizes". They've also off and on paid attention to the food pyramid and recommended #s of servings of various categories. There are lots of websites on nutrition for kids. Nutrition is simple and complicated at the same time. There are so many unknowns. Recomendations such as the food pyramid can only be very general guidelines, not exact precscriptions for everybody. Recomendations change every few years too. So, it makes more sense to help our kids listen to their own cues of hunger and which foods will satisfy them at any given time. At 12 and 10, my kids still sometimes have food jags where they only want to eat a few certain foods for days or weeks at a time. I was never very controlling about food, but I became aware of some ways I was controlling. As I've let go I find the kids making amazing choices and frequently turning down ice cream or soda, etc. - unless they really want it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>It's not made in to a huge deal but I do give her smaller portionsthan us (sometimes she complains cos it's not fair).>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sound like it might be a huge deal to her. What if you gave everyone smaller portions and let each decide whether they need/want more? Or let each dish up their own?
>>>>>>>>>>>I also say if she is hungry she can haveunlimited fruit or other filling but low calorie food. Her meals are
still big!>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Fruit can be very "fattening". Many fruits are calorie dense. Could you brainstorm with her on a list of foods she might choose from if she has eaten a meal and still wants more? When she does ask for food, ask her questions like: sweet or salty? dry or wet? crunchy or soft? thirsty? play a game or do something active first, then see if still hungry?
I know this is a difficult situation for your family. Our society is rather paranoid about fatness. Your daughter will not always have you there to control her food. You can help her best by helping her gain that control for herself.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/30/05 4:03:28 PM, nellebelle@... writes:
portions than you do her. Why should you have a bigger portion?
If you limit her portions you are asking for dishonesty, shame, sneakiness, a
feeling of neediness...
Nothing good will come of it.
-0=-Our society is rather paranoid about fatness. Your daughter will not
always have you there to control her food. You can help her best by helping her
gain that control for herself.
-=-
Try not to think of it as control. It WILL control her. You're training
her to expect to be controlled. You control her now, food controls her later?
Drop the word and the idea "control."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>It's not fair. She's young and growing and hungry. Give yourself smaller
> >>>>>>>>>>>>It's not made in to a huge deal but I do give her smaller
> portions
> than us (sometimes she complains cos it's not fair).>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
portions than you do her. Why should you have a bigger portion?
If you limit her portions you are asking for dishonesty, shame, sneakiness, a
feeling of neediness...
Nothing good will come of it.
-0=-Our society is rather paranoid about fatness. Your daughter will not
always have you there to control her food. You can help her best by helping her
gain that control for herself.
-=-
Try not to think of it as control. It WILL control her. You're training
her to expect to be controlled. You control her now, food controls her later?
Drop the word and the idea "control."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
>>>>>>>>Try not to think of it as control. It WILL control her. You're trainingher to expect to be controlled. You control her now, food controls her later?
Drop the word and the idea "control.">>>>>>>>>>>
Good point. Thanks for the reminder about using certain words.
How about this: let her listen to her own cues of hunger and fullness and which foods will satisfy at any given time.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
badolbilz
Cally, I second you on this. When I was growing up, my mother tried to
keep us from reading a lot...said it would create an unrealistic view
of the world...so we could only really read if we were doing soimething
like eating. I could and still can go through a whole box of cereal if
I have a good book. It's like a co-addiction. Since I've been working
hard at getting a healthier body, I've completely refused myself to
read while I eat. So be careful on presenting any reading material as a
distraction from eating. One thing I've done that's worked pretty
well is to have a list of 100 and 200 calorie foods and pace myself
throughout the day. You can eat something every hour that way and still
only take in 1200-1500 or more calories for the whole day, and mix up
the stuff so proteins, carbs, etc. are spaced out for even bouts of
energy and fullness. I also try to drink one glass of water in between
eating every 1-2 hours to maintain my full feeling.
Good luck. And try to subtly assure your daughter how much you enjoy
her and are glad for her just as she is. Her emotional confidence is
probably very fragile and is probably the first step to helping her be
healthier is to boost her own self-worth.
Heidi Case
Cally Brown wrote:
keep us from reading a lot...said it would create an unrealistic view
of the world...so we could only really read if we were doing soimething
like eating. I could and still can go through a whole box of cereal if
I have a good book. It's like a co-addiction. Since I've been working
hard at getting a healthier body, I've completely refused myself to
read while I eat. So be careful on presenting any reading material as a
distraction from eating. One thing I've done that's worked pretty
well is to have a list of 100 and 200 calorie foods and pace myself
throughout the day. You can eat something every hour that way and still
only take in 1200-1500 or more calories for the whole day, and mix up
the stuff so proteins, carbs, etc. are spaced out for even bouts of
energy and fullness. I also try to drink one glass of water in between
eating every 1-2 hours to maintain my full feeling.
Good luck. And try to subtly assure your daughter how much you enjoy
her and are glad for her just as she is. Her emotional confidence is
probably very fragile and is probably the first step to helping her be
healthier is to boost her own self-worth.
Heidi Case
Cally Brown wrote:
> > Maybe[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > simply putting an interesting magazine article or a catalog or
> > something beside her plate at meals?
>
> I eat way more when I read (books, magazines - or e-mails like now) - I
> eat without noticing, I guess, then 'need' more to get the feeling of
> satisfaction.
>
> Cally
>
>
>
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Schuyler Waynforth
I can't imagine not ever having felt full. I think if Linnaea (5) or
Simon (8) had never felt full, and didn't have Prader Willi, I would
make dish after dish of food that I knew they loved and they could eat
until they were full. The thought of always feeling hungry just makes
me feel unhappy. And I would hate to think that Simon or Linnaea were
needing food in that way.
In the UK there is a real focus on fat phobia. Or, more precisely,
there is a phobic focus on weight. With Channel 4's You Are What You
Eat, and BBC3's Honey We're Killing The Kids it is easy to get a sense
that the most important thing you can do for your child is to help
them be thin. David (dh) was watching Honey We're Killing the Kids
last night and was appalled to hear them state that a diet of junk
food lead to a life expectancy of 66 years. There are no studies that
prove that. The message that junk food is bad is so important at the
moment nobody will argue the made up statistics that BBC3 produces.
If the most important thing for you is that your daughter isn't fat
than you need to address that. I don't know that controlling her food
will do that, smoking kept me thin for a long time, so maybe that
would work. But smoking has it's downside too. Maybe you could offer
going to your local leisure centre during lunchtime and go swimming
(we've found our local is much emptier at lunchtime than at other
times). I don't know where you are in Wales, but there are beautiful
beaches, aren't there? maybe you could go rockhounding on the beach
and get a walk in that way. You could see if there is a climbing wall
nearby and she could try climbing, Simon and Linnaea both really enjoy
that. Maybe there is a fencing club or an archery group or something
that you and she could do that she'd really like. It might not change
her weight at all, but it might make her more interested in other
kinds of activities besides eating.
Let her eat. Make food an area where she has no guilt and no
emotional relationship to increase her desire for it. Pam wrote a
wonderful post on the marginal utility of anything and how denying
access to something increases its relative value. I posted it on my
blog here:
http://waynforth.blogspot.com/2005/01/marginal-utility-or-marginal-value.html
(which I hope is alright, I never actually asked for permission to
quote you Pam). Maybe you should read that and see if you need to
change your perspective.
Schuyler
--- In [email protected], "elainegh8"
<elainegh8@h...> wrote:
<snip>
Simon (8) had never felt full, and didn't have Prader Willi, I would
make dish after dish of food that I knew they loved and they could eat
until they were full. The thought of always feeling hungry just makes
me feel unhappy. And I would hate to think that Simon or Linnaea were
needing food in that way.
In the UK there is a real focus on fat phobia. Or, more precisely,
there is a phobic focus on weight. With Channel 4's You Are What You
Eat, and BBC3's Honey We're Killing The Kids it is easy to get a sense
that the most important thing you can do for your child is to help
them be thin. David (dh) was watching Honey We're Killing the Kids
last night and was appalled to hear them state that a diet of junk
food lead to a life expectancy of 66 years. There are no studies that
prove that. The message that junk food is bad is so important at the
moment nobody will argue the made up statistics that BBC3 produces.
If the most important thing for you is that your daughter isn't fat
than you need to address that. I don't know that controlling her food
will do that, smoking kept me thin for a long time, so maybe that
would work. But smoking has it's downside too. Maybe you could offer
going to your local leisure centre during lunchtime and go swimming
(we've found our local is much emptier at lunchtime than at other
times). I don't know where you are in Wales, but there are beautiful
beaches, aren't there? maybe you could go rockhounding on the beach
and get a walk in that way. You could see if there is a climbing wall
nearby and she could try climbing, Simon and Linnaea both really enjoy
that. Maybe there is a fencing club or an archery group or something
that you and she could do that she'd really like. It might not change
her weight at all, but it might make her more interested in other
kinds of activities besides eating.
Let her eat. Make food an area where she has no guilt and no
emotional relationship to increase her desire for it. Pam wrote a
wonderful post on the marginal utility of anything and how denying
access to something increases its relative value. I posted it on my
blog here:
http://waynforth.blogspot.com/2005/01/marginal-utility-or-marginal-value.html
(which I hope is alright, I never actually asked for permission to
quote you Pam). Maybe you should read that and see if you need to
change your perspective.
Schuyler
--- In [email protected], "elainegh8"
<elainegh8@h...> wrote:
<snip>
> I've never heard her say she is full, ever.
elainegh8
I'm just not sure. She's 9 and weighs 9 and a half stone. Her height
is 4 feet 10 and half inches. She is probably going to be about 5ft
9 and a half inches. The shoes I'm going to have to get her this
time are going to be a UK size 5. That's adult size here. She's got
massive shoulders and is very strong. I am tall 5ft 8 and strong too
and her dad is very thickly built with weight lifter type shoulders.
I guess she was never going to be petite :)
Because surely a 9 year old doesn't need a many calories as an
adult? Would I give a 3 year old an adult portion? I dunno, I'm lost.
I feel I am already to blame for her weight by giving her too big
portions already.
I've thought about this some more and I think this is much more
about me than dd really. :(
eat anything else for a set amount of time or having to eat from a
smaller bowl (as you've already suggested)? I am a bit confused
about this. This is an honest question btw not any antagonism. :)
parents thinking it's a problem with their child when it's really a
problem of their own?
I am paranoid about fatness as it is a killer and also for other
reasons I'll list below. It is guaranteed to shorten life,
especially in our family. I also have personal hangups about fatness
which I think are clouding this issue. This issue has given me the
chance to think about it all more deeply.
This is really hard and I think people may find my feelings about
this disturbing. I know I do. It's a mixed bag of feelings of
revulsion, shame and guilt.
5 years ago I was really ill and put on five and half stone.
Entirely due to that weight and family predisposition I am now
glucose tolerance impaired. I have personaly now lost 2 and a half
stone but it is not enough. I have to lose weight or I will get
Diabetes. Being fat as a child (I wasn't,I was skinny) greatly
increases the chances of getting serious diseases. I am afraid.
I suppose it also plays in to my own personal disgust at fatness. I
really hope I haven't passed it on to dd (I try not to) but I sort
of feel being fat is immoral. That also means I am not a good
person. When there are so many people without enough the fact that
people can eat so much it affects their health is disgusting..I am
including myself in this. I am disgusting. I was also disgusting
when I was just a stone overweight.
I also think it's repulsive, on me especially my self loathing knows
no bounds, but it does affect my feelings with my daughter. I am
embaressed (sp?) to have a fat child. What an awful admission. This
is a mess really.
My mother has been fat her entire life and as a child I always
thought her body was repulsive and swore I'd never get like that. It
may have been because I went to boarding school from the age of 8 so
mostly only saw other childrens bodies. I don't like my mother very
much.
I am embaressed to go out as I feel people are judging me because I
and my dd are fat. People really judge about fatness in children. I
am hyper sensitive to other peoples' ideas. I am working on not
being that way.
I am terrified of being judged. I worry constantly about how people
see me, this was handed down from my mother who only really cares
about what things look like not how they really are. I don't want to
pass this on to dd but how can I not? It must pervade everything. I
guess at least I am aware of it and working on it which is a good
start.
Actually your writing (Sandra) about changing dials to sliders or
dimmers was very useful. When I start thinking people are thinking
I'm a bad mother cos I am letting dd have an enormous dessert when
we're out I try and think SLIDERS! DIMMERS! get rid of that DIAL
that says ALL or NOTHING! They might be thinking what a polite
person she is or what a nice family we look. Or they might not even
be thinking about us at all.
BWs Elaine
controls her later? > Drop the word and the idea "control."
is 4 feet 10 and half inches. She is probably going to be about 5ft
9 and a half inches. The shoes I'm going to have to get her this
time are going to be a UK size 5. That's adult size here. She's got
massive shoulders and is very strong. I am tall 5ft 8 and strong too
and her dad is very thickly built with weight lifter type shoulders.
I guess she was never going to be petite :)
>>It's not made in to a huge deal but I do give her smallerportion?
> > portions> > than us (sometimes she complains cos it's not
>>fair).>>>>>>>>>>>>
>It's not fair. She's young and growing and hungry.Give yourself
>smaller portions than you do her. Why should you have a bigger
Because surely a 9 year old doesn't need a many calories as an
adult? Would I give a 3 year old an adult portion? I dunno, I'm lost.
I feel I am already to blame for her weight by giving her too big
portions already.
I've thought about this some more and I think this is much more
about me than dd really. :(
> If you limit her portions you are asking for dishonesty, shame,What's the difference between limiting portions and saying you can't
>sneakiness, a > feeling of neediness... > Nothing good will come of
>it.
eat anything else for a set amount of time or having to eat from a
smaller bowl (as you've already suggested)? I am a bit confused
about this. This is an honest question btw not any antagonism. :)
> -0=-Our society is rather paranoid about fatness.I wonder how many issues are brought to the unschooling list by
parents thinking it's a problem with their child when it's really a
problem of their own?
I am paranoid about fatness as it is a killer and also for other
reasons I'll list below. It is guaranteed to shorten life,
especially in our family. I also have personal hangups about fatness
which I think are clouding this issue. This issue has given me the
chance to think about it all more deeply.
This is really hard and I think people may find my feelings about
this disturbing. I know I do. It's a mixed bag of feelings of
revulsion, shame and guilt.
5 years ago I was really ill and put on five and half stone.
Entirely due to that weight and family predisposition I am now
glucose tolerance impaired. I have personaly now lost 2 and a half
stone but it is not enough. I have to lose weight or I will get
Diabetes. Being fat as a child (I wasn't,I was skinny) greatly
increases the chances of getting serious diseases. I am afraid.
I suppose it also plays in to my own personal disgust at fatness. I
really hope I haven't passed it on to dd (I try not to) but I sort
of feel being fat is immoral. That also means I am not a good
person. When there are so many people without enough the fact that
people can eat so much it affects their health is disgusting..I am
including myself in this. I am disgusting. I was also disgusting
when I was just a stone overweight.
I also think it's repulsive, on me especially my self loathing knows
no bounds, but it does affect my feelings with my daughter. I am
embaressed (sp?) to have a fat child. What an awful admission. This
is a mess really.
My mother has been fat her entire life and as a child I always
thought her body was repulsive and swore I'd never get like that. It
may have been because I went to boarding school from the age of 8 so
mostly only saw other childrens bodies. I don't like my mother very
much.
I am embaressed to go out as I feel people are judging me because I
and my dd are fat. People really judge about fatness in children. I
am hyper sensitive to other peoples' ideas. I am working on not
being that way.
I am terrified of being judged. I worry constantly about how people
see me, this was handed down from my mother who only really cares
about what things look like not how they really are. I don't want to
pass this on to dd but how can I not? It must pervade everything. I
guess at least I am aware of it and working on it which is a good
start.
Actually your writing (Sandra) about changing dials to sliders or
dimmers was very useful. When I start thinking people are thinking
I'm a bad mother cos I am letting dd have an enormous dessert when
we're out I try and think SLIDERS! DIMMERS! get rid of that DIAL
that says ALL or NOTHING! They might be thinking what a polite
person she is or what a nice family we look. Or they might not even
be thinking about us at all.
BWs Elaine
> Try not to think of it as control. It WILL control her. You'retraining> her to expect to be controlled. You control her now, food
controls her later? > Drop the word and the idea "control."
>
> Sandra
Liza Rose Gottlieb
Sometimes people eat in order to placate a sense of poverty (emotional or physical), or lack of control over their own lives. My FIL, who is obese and getting more so, will sit at the table after dinner with a magazine, a bag of nuts and/or a carton of prunes and eat mindlessly. He has a low self-esteem (perceived poverty of friends) and comforts himself with eating. There are also control issues with his wife (over his eating and drinking, just for starters).
If he were to de-school his eating he may go into a period of gorging (a la tv & kids), but over time would, in theory, even out. Unfortunately, he's in his mid-sixties and may not have that kind of time.
Is there some area of her life that is under stress that triggers a need to control an area of her life (eating)?
Liza Rose
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If he were to de-school his eating he may go into a period of gorging (a la tv & kids), but over time would, in theory, even out. Unfortunately, he's in his mid-sixties and may not have that kind of time.
Is there some area of her life that is under stress that triggers a need to control an area of her life (eating)?
Liza Rose
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/30/05 9:46:21 PM, ynxn96@... writes:
You kept eating so you could keep reading.
In the absence of a weird condition like a mom discouraging reading, the
reading might be more interesting than the food!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> -=-so we could only really read if we were doing soimethingBut one was related to the other and you had odd circumstances.
> like eating. . . . . So be careful on presenting any reading material as a
> distraction from eating. -=-
>
You kept eating so you could keep reading.
In the absence of a weird condition like a mom discouraging reading, the
reading might be more interesting than the food!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/05 4:43:59 AM, s.waynforth@... writes:
that helped her with that. She quit the cocaine years back, but kept the
tobacco. I'm proud of having many more teeth than she has, and of not having
to stand out in the snow to suck expensive smoke, as she does.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I don't know that controlling her foodMy sister's proud of being thin while I'm not, but it was tobacco and cocaine
> will do that, smoking kept me thin for a long time, so maybe that
> would work. But smoking has it's downside too.
>
that helped her with that. She quit the cocaine years back, but kept the
tobacco. I'm proud of having many more teeth than she has, and of not having
to stand out in the snow to suck expensive smoke, as she does.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/05 7:25:47 AM, elainegh8@... writes:
She's 9! She's big. She's growing. She's coming toward puberty when
kids need LOTS of calories because their bodies are transforming from kid-version
to adult version.
-=- Would I give a 3 year old an adult portion?-=-
If you think of food in terms of "adult portions" and you've been
apportioning it, maybe that's part of the problem.
From the beginning my kids could choose what they ate and how much of it, or
how little of it. My husband was a pudgy baby, born fat, and stayed big
always. Our oldest is somewhat that way (not as big as his dad was) and the
other two aren't. I was a scrawny kid, and until after I had the second baby,
was not big. Food isn't used to try to control growth. It's a resource,
like water, like soft places to sit, like things to read. If you make it a
powerful, dangerous substance, you'll have problems.
-=-I feel I am already to blame for her weight by giving her too big
portions already.-=-
Try to get over the blame and guilt. If it's not your fault, must it be her
fault?
Can fault be removed from the equation?
My husband's mom never blamed herself, she always blamed him, from the time
he was a baby, and she tried giving him less food, so he would sneak off and
eat elsewhere, and spend his money on food, and food is still his comfort
substance. She would have done better to love him and feed him and maybe he would
have felt rich and full many years ago, instead of empty and unloved and
wrong.
-=-What's the difference between limiting portions and saying you can't
eat anything else for a set amount of time or having to eat from a
smaller bowl (as you've already suggested)?-=-
I didn't say "say you can't."
You asked for input. If SHE wants to find tricks to eat less you might
suggest that SHE get a special bowl, but I never once suggested that you control
her portions or you time her eating.
Probably because of the way my kids are and my family is, I wasn't assuming
you wanted a new control plan, but a way to stop trying to control.
-=-I wonder how many issues are brought to the unschooling list by
parents thinking it's a problem with their child when it's really a
problem of their own?-=-
The vast majority of them. <g>
-=-
I am paranoid about fatness as it is a killer and also for other
reasons I'll list below. It is guaranteed to shorten life,-=-
This is not logic, it's fear speaking. It's bullshit.
Stress is a killer.
Shame and unhappiness are killers.
That they often go hand in hand with fat is a damned shame.
-=-I suppose it also plays in to my own personal disgust at fatness. I
really hope I haven't passed it on to dd (I try not to) but I sort
of feel being fat is immoral.-=-
Well you didn't create that feeling yourself, it's deeply ingrained in our
whole culture and language and history. Gluttony was one of the infamous seven
deadly sins of rhetoric-gone-by. But what of people who are not
"gluttonous" but are naturally biologically larger than others?
Is being tall a sin? Is being pale skinned a sin? Is have large or small
breasts a sin? Big hands? Freckles?
Maybe reading about genetics would make you feel better for a while here than
reading about disease and diet and obesity.
-=-I also think it's repulsive, on me especially my self loathing knows
no bounds, but it does affect my feelings with my daughter.-=-
Get therapy then. Find a help group of some sort. Whose voice is in your
head saying you're disgusting? Your mom? Your grandmother? Friends long
gone? Do you want YOUR voice to live in your daughter's head long after
you're gone, saying she's disgusting, her feet are too big, and she should be
ashamed?
-=- I don't want to
pass this on to dd but how can I not? It must pervade everything.-=-
Awareness is a good start, but do not take your time. MOVE to change.
She'll be twelve or fifteen before you know it if you take your time to change.
-=-Actually your writing (Sandra) about changing dials to sliders or
dimmers was very useful. When I start thinking people are thinking
I'm a bad mother cos I am letting dd have an enormous dessert when
we're out I try and think SLIDERS! DIMMERS! get rid of that DIAL
that says ALL or NOTHING!-=-
Good! I'm glad something I wrote might help.
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Because surely a 9 year old doesn't need a many calories as anI think it's the other way around. Adults don't need as much as children.
> adult?
>
She's 9! She's big. She's growing. She's coming toward puberty when
kids need LOTS of calories because their bodies are transforming from kid-version
to adult version.
-=- Would I give a 3 year old an adult portion?-=-
If you think of food in terms of "adult portions" and you've been
apportioning it, maybe that's part of the problem.
From the beginning my kids could choose what they ate and how much of it, or
how little of it. My husband was a pudgy baby, born fat, and stayed big
always. Our oldest is somewhat that way (not as big as his dad was) and the
other two aren't. I was a scrawny kid, and until after I had the second baby,
was not big. Food isn't used to try to control growth. It's a resource,
like water, like soft places to sit, like things to read. If you make it a
powerful, dangerous substance, you'll have problems.
-=-I feel I am already to blame for her weight by giving her too big
portions already.-=-
Try to get over the blame and guilt. If it's not your fault, must it be her
fault?
Can fault be removed from the equation?
My husband's mom never blamed herself, she always blamed him, from the time
he was a baby, and she tried giving him less food, so he would sneak off and
eat elsewhere, and spend his money on food, and food is still his comfort
substance. She would have done better to love him and feed him and maybe he would
have felt rich and full many years ago, instead of empty and unloved and
wrong.
-=-What's the difference between limiting portions and saying you can't
eat anything else for a set amount of time or having to eat from a
smaller bowl (as you've already suggested)?-=-
I didn't say "say you can't."
You asked for input. If SHE wants to find tricks to eat less you might
suggest that SHE get a special bowl, but I never once suggested that you control
her portions or you time her eating.
Probably because of the way my kids are and my family is, I wasn't assuming
you wanted a new control plan, but a way to stop trying to control.
-=-I wonder how many issues are brought to the unschooling list by
parents thinking it's a problem with their child when it's really a
problem of their own?-=-
The vast majority of them. <g>
-=-
I am paranoid about fatness as it is a killer and also for other
reasons I'll list below. It is guaranteed to shorten life,-=-
This is not logic, it's fear speaking. It's bullshit.
Stress is a killer.
Shame and unhappiness are killers.
That they often go hand in hand with fat is a damned shame.
-=-I suppose it also plays in to my own personal disgust at fatness. I
really hope I haven't passed it on to dd (I try not to) but I sort
of feel being fat is immoral.-=-
Well you didn't create that feeling yourself, it's deeply ingrained in our
whole culture and language and history. Gluttony was one of the infamous seven
deadly sins of rhetoric-gone-by. But what of people who are not
"gluttonous" but are naturally biologically larger than others?
Is being tall a sin? Is being pale skinned a sin? Is have large or small
breasts a sin? Big hands? Freckles?
Maybe reading about genetics would make you feel better for a while here than
reading about disease and diet and obesity.
-=-I also think it's repulsive, on me especially my self loathing knows
no bounds, but it does affect my feelings with my daughter.-=-
Get therapy then. Find a help group of some sort. Whose voice is in your
head saying you're disgusting? Your mom? Your grandmother? Friends long
gone? Do you want YOUR voice to live in your daughter's head long after
you're gone, saying she's disgusting, her feet are too big, and she should be
ashamed?
-=- I don't want to
pass this on to dd but how can I not? It must pervade everything.-=-
Awareness is a good start, but do not take your time. MOVE to change.
She'll be twelve or fifteen before you know it if you take your time to change.
-=-Actually your writing (Sandra) about changing dials to sliders or
dimmers was very useful. When I start thinking people are thinking
I'm a bad mother cos I am letting dd have an enormous dessert when
we're out I try and think SLIDERS! DIMMERS! get rid of that DIAL
that says ALL or NOTHING!-=-
Good! I'm glad something I wrote might help.
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/2005 8:26:01 AM Central Standard Time,
elainegh8@... writes:
I am paranoid about fatness as it is a killer and also for other
reasons I'll list below. It is guaranteed to shorten life,
especially in our family. I also have personal hangups about fatness
which I think are clouding this issue. This issue has given me the
chance to think about it all more deeply.
~~~
You're very brave to admit all that you did. And that's a good start to
getting past it.
I will admit that I wanted my last child to be a girl, but I was also
desparately afraid that if it were a girl that she would have the genes of my
husband's side of the family and look like my Amazon sister-in-law. Well, Will
wasn't a girl, and he did get those genes, and he looks a lot like his father
in body shape--but also got my good eyes, and he's much more athletic than
that side of the family and I'm not too concerned about him becoming overweight
or having thick jowls, as I would be if he were female. My goal for us,
because he does have that body type, is that we live a very active lifestyle,
trying all kinds of sports together, and if he lives that life then it will be
easy to continue it as an adult. We currently mountain bike together, and
canoe and hike and swim and play tennis (but my husband doesn't). I figure the
more I exercise, the more food I can enjoy! ;)
So, I understand what you mean about having a fat daughter. My dad is
paranoid of it, too, and makes comments about my weight sometimes...but I let them
slide off because I know I can bike 12 miles on a rooty mountain trail in
spite of having a bad back, and he can't do that, even though he's thin.
I would like to recommend a book. The Ultimate Weight-Loss Solution by Dr.
Phil McGraw. Say what you will about Dr. Phil (and I've said plenty about
his ideas about children), this is one of the books that has been most helpful
to me about getting through the emotional aspects of why we eat and are
overweight.
You really should get past it, for your daughter's sake.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
elainegh8@... writes:
I am paranoid about fatness as it is a killer and also for other
reasons I'll list below. It is guaranteed to shorten life,
especially in our family. I also have personal hangups about fatness
which I think are clouding this issue. This issue has given me the
chance to think about it all more deeply.
~~~
You're very brave to admit all that you did. And that's a good start to
getting past it.
I will admit that I wanted my last child to be a girl, but I was also
desparately afraid that if it were a girl that she would have the genes of my
husband's side of the family and look like my Amazon sister-in-law. Well, Will
wasn't a girl, and he did get those genes, and he looks a lot like his father
in body shape--but also got my good eyes, and he's much more athletic than
that side of the family and I'm not too concerned about him becoming overweight
or having thick jowls, as I would be if he were female. My goal for us,
because he does have that body type, is that we live a very active lifestyle,
trying all kinds of sports together, and if he lives that life then it will be
easy to continue it as an adult. We currently mountain bike together, and
canoe and hike and swim and play tennis (but my husband doesn't). I figure the
more I exercise, the more food I can enjoy! ;)
So, I understand what you mean about having a fat daughter. My dad is
paranoid of it, too, and makes comments about my weight sometimes...but I let them
slide off because I know I can bike 12 miles on a rooty mountain trail in
spite of having a bad back, and he can't do that, even though he's thin.
I would like to recommend a book. The Ultimate Weight-Loss Solution by Dr.
Phil McGraw. Say what you will about Dr. Phil (and I've said plenty about
his ideas about children), this is one of the books that has been most helpful
to me about getting through the emotional aspects of why we eat and are
overweight.
You really should get past it, for your daughter's sake.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler Waynforth
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
pre-pubertal girls is anything from 1600 to 3500 calories a day. So a
huge range which means that there are no rules of thumb to guide
anyone about how much or how little their son or daughter should eat.
And a range which easily incorporates how much I (5 foot 10, almost
12 stone (165 pounds) and 37 years old) eat.
<snip>
kept coming back to, the idea that food is just food. If you give it
more meaning, more weight, than you have to deal with those issues
before you can even get to the idea that food is about sustenance.
Schuyler
>children.
> In a message dated 10/1/05 7:25:47 AM, elainegh8@h... writes:
>
>
> > Because surely a 9 year old doesn't need a many calories as an
> > adult?
> >
>
> I think it's the other way around. Adults don't need as much as
> She's 9! She's big. She's growing. She's coming toward puberty whenfrom kid-version
> kids need LOTS of calories because their bodies are transforming
> to adult version.Doing a quick search on-line the suggested daily intake for
>
pre-pubertal girls is anything from 1600 to 3500 calories a day. So a
huge range which means that there are no rules of thumb to guide
anyone about how much or how little their son or daughter should eat.
And a range which easily incorporates how much I (5 foot 10, almost
12 stone (165 pounds) and 37 years old) eat.
<snip>
>...Food isn't used to try to control growth. It's a resource,make it a
> like water, like soft places to sit, like things to read. If you
> powerful, dangerous substance, you'll have problems.When I was thinking about the whole food issue thing this is what I
>
kept coming back to, the idea that food is just food. If you give it
more meaning, more weight, than you have to deal with those issues
before you can even get to the idea that food is about sustenance.
Schuyler
michele oquinn
I struggle with weight issues and more!
I can totally relate to your post.
I feel I am already to blame for her weight by giving
her too big portions already.
+++ I also feel responsible. We eat out too much. I
WANT to grocery shop, fix meals at home, and be able
to KNOW I'm offering the best for my child/self, but
it never seems to end up that way. It's like feast or
famine in my house. Once I do shop, we all tend to
over eat because it's so great to have stuff at home.
Maybe I need to "schedule" weekly shopping trips so
I'm not so overwhelmed by the process?
I also think it's repulsive, on me especially my
self loathing knows no bounds, but it does affect my
feelings wh my daughter. I am embaressed to have a fat
child. What an awful admission.
+++ I know I don't like being overweight as I no
longer enjoy things I used too. Things like running
and hiking are physically exhausting to me. I do
sense my son is very unhappy about his weight for the
way he looks. He's always sucking in his gut and
telling me "I just would like to look like this all
the time"
Know what's strange? I see myself in the mirror and
seem only a bit larger than my thin self...but then
see photos of myself and cry...I am huge.
I worry constantly about how people see me, this was
handed down from my mother who only really cares
about what things look like not how they really are.
+++ I do, too! I'm 5'9", 260lbs. My son is 11yo,
4'9", 120lbs. The world looks at us as though we have
nothing to offer. LAZY is the word I hear in my mind.
I feel lazy for not shopping, feeding us well,
exercising as I should. As a kid I was teased for
being thin. How ironic!!
My parents are especially critical of my son and me.
My athletic daughter is "normal" weight, therefore,
acceptable.
I will say this: my son is now taking a fencing class
on Thursdays (1hr) and LOVES it. Works up a sweat and
feels the burn of exercise and likes it. We go to the
park after that and play for 2 hours with other
kids/parents in our homeschool group. Total free
play. Exercise isn't the goal (although it certainly
happens). He seems less concerned with his appearance
lately. I always try to stay neutral. I just beat up
on myself, in my head, for not being more dedicated,
energetic towards HEALTH.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
I can totally relate to your post.
I feel I am already to blame for her weight by giving
her too big portions already.
+++ I also feel responsible. We eat out too much. I
WANT to grocery shop, fix meals at home, and be able
to KNOW I'm offering the best for my child/self, but
it never seems to end up that way. It's like feast or
famine in my house. Once I do shop, we all tend to
over eat because it's so great to have stuff at home.
Maybe I need to "schedule" weekly shopping trips so
I'm not so overwhelmed by the process?
I also think it's repulsive, on me especially my
self loathing knows no bounds, but it does affect my
feelings wh my daughter. I am embaressed to have a fat
child. What an awful admission.
+++ I know I don't like being overweight as I no
longer enjoy things I used too. Things like running
and hiking are physically exhausting to me. I do
sense my son is very unhappy about his weight for the
way he looks. He's always sucking in his gut and
telling me "I just would like to look like this all
the time"
Know what's strange? I see myself in the mirror and
seem only a bit larger than my thin self...but then
see photos of myself and cry...I am huge.
I worry constantly about how people see me, this was
handed down from my mother who only really cares
about what things look like not how they really are.
+++ I do, too! I'm 5'9", 260lbs. My son is 11yo,
4'9", 120lbs. The world looks at us as though we have
nothing to offer. LAZY is the word I hear in my mind.
I feel lazy for not shopping, feeding us well,
exercising as I should. As a kid I was teased for
being thin. How ironic!!
My parents are especially critical of my son and me.
My athletic daughter is "normal" weight, therefore,
acceptable.
I will say this: my son is now taking a fencing class
on Thursdays (1hr) and LOVES it. Works up a sweat and
feels the burn of exercise and likes it. We go to the
park after that and play for 2 hours with other
kids/parents in our homeschool group. Total free
play. Exercise isn't the goal (although it certainly
happens). He seems less concerned with his appearance
lately. I always try to stay neutral. I just beat up
on myself, in my head, for not being more dedicated,
energetic towards HEALTH.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 1, 2005, at 6:55 AM, elainegh8 wrote:
Kathryn was about the same height and weight (if my math is right and
a stone is 14 pounds that's about 120 pounds) at 12. Now she's 5' 4"
and about 100 lbs. I can't totally use her as an example since she
went for a regular check up and the nurse pointed out where she was
on the height/weight chart and Kathryn wasn't pleased. So *she*
decided to start moving. She also has a dad who's great at focusing
on the positive and setting reasonable goals. So now she's an
enthusiastic runner.
The reason I even mention it -- since I can't package up the internal
motivation and the running partner for others ;-) -- is that
Kathryn's interest in sports may not be entirely related to weight
since I've noticed that the 11-13 age is a common age for formerly
uninterested kids to become interested in sports. Kathryn joined the
town softball team and we were silently concerned that all the girls
would be a lot better than she and it would be discouraging for her
but half the team had never played before. And my husband volunteered
to coach the middle school cross country team (11-13 year olds) and
most of the kids had never run before.
A friend of mine's son was round also and is also now tall and thin.
The interesting thing is that his formerly skinny younger brother is
now round and looks exactly like his brother did a couple of years ago.
If your *daughter* wants to eat less, then drinking water and many
small portions (as others suggested) rather than one large portion
can be helpful. But if it's you that's trying to find ways to control
her eating, her motivation is going to be towards figuring out how to
get around your controls so she can get the food she wants.
Does she eat a lot of carbohydrates? She may want to switch them for
proteins and vegetables and whole grains. And thought is changing on
low fat diets because fat helps us feel full and low fat diets can
often leave us feeling hungry all the time.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I'm just not sure. She's 9 and weighs 9 and a half stone. Her heightCould very well be she's gearing up.
> is 4 feet 10 and half inches. She is probably going to be about 5ft
> 9 and a half inches.
Kathryn was about the same height and weight (if my math is right and
a stone is 14 pounds that's about 120 pounds) at 12. Now she's 5' 4"
and about 100 lbs. I can't totally use her as an example since she
went for a regular check up and the nurse pointed out where she was
on the height/weight chart and Kathryn wasn't pleased. So *she*
decided to start moving. She also has a dad who's great at focusing
on the positive and setting reasonable goals. So now she's an
enthusiastic runner.
The reason I even mention it -- since I can't package up the internal
motivation and the running partner for others ;-) -- is that
Kathryn's interest in sports may not be entirely related to weight
since I've noticed that the 11-13 age is a common age for formerly
uninterested kids to become interested in sports. Kathryn joined the
town softball team and we were silently concerned that all the girls
would be a lot better than she and it would be discouraging for her
but half the team had never played before. And my husband volunteered
to coach the middle school cross country team (11-13 year olds) and
most of the kids had never run before.
A friend of mine's son was round also and is also now tall and thin.
The interesting thing is that his formerly skinny younger brother is
now round and looks exactly like his brother did a couple of years ago.
If your *daughter* wants to eat less, then drinking water and many
small portions (as others suggested) rather than one large portion
can be helpful. But if it's you that's trying to find ways to control
her eating, her motivation is going to be towards figuring out how to
get around your controls so she can get the food she wants.
Does she eat a lot of carbohydrates? She may want to switch them for
proteins and vegetables and whole grains. And thought is changing on
low fat diets because fat helps us feel full and low fat diets can
often leave us feeling hungry all the time.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katy Jennings
My 9 almost 10 year old boy eats WAY more than I do. During his growth spurts I LOVE all you can eat restaurants for him. He eats 4-5 full meals a day, along with snacks when he is in his growing period. He usually does that for about 3 months at a time, he puts on a little around the waist, then he shoots up, and slows down a little on the eating. Then it starts all over again. Even during his slow period he eats more than I do though, and he always eats 2 dinners, one early and one fairly late. I guess that is what you consider supper and dinner? Kids, especially as they near puberty, need more calories. And girls who carry a little more weight often loose it after they start their periods, at least I did, and my niece has. We were both a little chunky, then at around 13-14, when the periods started getting more regular the weight dropped off. Speaking of my niece, she is 14 and in public school. She comes to my house after school most days. You should see how much she eats when she gets here, then has a full dinner. They need the nourishment.
And just as an aside, since you mentioned your daughter's shoe size, my son (remember he is 9) wears a US size 5 mens. That is a US size 7 womens, which is what I wear. It is a pretty average size for women, most women are between 7 and 9. He is a tall, muscular kid, with big feet (like a great dane puppy <g>) If your daughter is tall with wide shoulders and is muscular, she probably needs more nourishment than a small dainty 9 year old. A muscular person burns more calories doing every day things than a person without a lot of muscle. So they need to take in more calories.
I am what I consider a bit overweight, have been since having my son. According to the medical standards, I am "morbidly obese." But you know what? I can hike 20 miles in our desert mountains. I do a cardio kick-boxing type workout 2-3 times a week. I am pretty strong, whenever someone needs something heavy moved they usually come to me. And my cholesterol is 115 and my blood pressure is low. But I am fat. Fat doesn't always equal unhealthy. Things like cholesterol level and especially stress are much more important in terms of general health.
I have some food issues myself, so I know a little of what you are feeling, but those issues are mine. I will not make them my son's. My mom was a "clean your plate, there are starving children in China" kind of mom. I got slapped for suggesting that we send the food to the starving children down the street, insubordination. She has changed her views 180 degrees since then, but I still carry the guilt whenever I throw food away. (I picture it stuck to my butt as more lumpy cellulite, that helps! <g>)
Showing your daughter that you love her no matter what, that food is not an issue, would be helpful. What I have learned from the people on this list is that the relationship with your kids is the most important thing. So stop worrying about food and her weight and start working on building a good, strong, loving relationship with your daughter. Focus on what SHE wants and needs, and the rest will follow.
Best wishes,
Katy J.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And just as an aside, since you mentioned your daughter's shoe size, my son (remember he is 9) wears a US size 5 mens. That is a US size 7 womens, which is what I wear. It is a pretty average size for women, most women are between 7 and 9. He is a tall, muscular kid, with big feet (like a great dane puppy <g>) If your daughter is tall with wide shoulders and is muscular, she probably needs more nourishment than a small dainty 9 year old. A muscular person burns more calories doing every day things than a person without a lot of muscle. So they need to take in more calories.
I am what I consider a bit overweight, have been since having my son. According to the medical standards, I am "morbidly obese." But you know what? I can hike 20 miles in our desert mountains. I do a cardio kick-boxing type workout 2-3 times a week. I am pretty strong, whenever someone needs something heavy moved they usually come to me. And my cholesterol is 115 and my blood pressure is low. But I am fat. Fat doesn't always equal unhealthy. Things like cholesterol level and especially stress are much more important in terms of general health.
I have some food issues myself, so I know a little of what you are feeling, but those issues are mine. I will not make them my son's. My mom was a "clean your plate, there are starving children in China" kind of mom. I got slapped for suggesting that we send the food to the starving children down the street, insubordination. She has changed her views 180 degrees since then, but I still carry the guilt whenever I throw food away. (I picture it stuck to my butt as more lumpy cellulite, that helps! <g>)
Showing your daughter that you love her no matter what, that food is not an issue, would be helpful. What I have learned from the people on this list is that the relationship with your kids is the most important thing. So stop worrying about food and her weight and start working on building a good, strong, loving relationship with your daughter. Focus on what SHE wants and needs, and the rest will follow.
Best wishes,
Katy J.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley
> Because surely a 9 year old doesn't need a many calories as anMy 9 year old daughter currently weighs 63 pounds. I convert that to
> adult? Would I give a 3 year old an adult portion? I dunno, I'm lost.
4.5 stone (I could be wrong on my conversion, thus I give the known
accurate, too). Her whole life she has been able to eat whatever she
wants whenever she wants without artificial quantity or time constraints
(a la Unschooling). I am a grown woman that weighs more than double her
weight and I eat the same quantity or less than her every single day (I
don't know precisely since I've never measured out her food). Why does
she eat "so much"? Partially genetics and partially the fact that she
is a growing girl. Her brain and body need a lot of calories to help
her grow and be strong. I expect Zoë to gain a lot of weight and height
over the next couple of years. I became my full adult size around 12.
She is going to need to eat a lot if she wants to grow that much in only
3 years. I don't think that she even is aware of the fact that she eats
about the same amount as me, because I've never brought it to her
attention in a positive or negative way. It is just food, not a
contest. We usually all start out with less than we are going to want
of a meal and get ourselves refills until we've had enough. I do start
my 5 year old out with a lot less, but when I see her having hungry
days, I offer her more food (or she just gets it herself :) ). Neither
of my children have ever snuck food, as every food that we have is
always available to them at any time of the day.
Have you considered going to some sort of Weight Watchers program with
her? As a homeschooler it would be easy for her to tag along with you
to meetings and sit by you-- offer her a book or something to do during
the meeting times, don't require her to listen (or weigh in!). I have
had weight issues in the past and reading a lot about nutrition and
having help with discovering what proper portion sizes look like helps a
lot. Personally, I would make this about *you* and tell her that you
need her help (for all the reasons that you wrote this list -- be very
honest and open with your daughter, but not in a scary way, just a
proactive way). She isn't necessarily in immediate danger, as she is a
growing girl and could do some major stretching over the next couple of
years. She would be a super model at her current weight if she were as
tall as you predict that she is going to be.
As I learned more about nutrition, I brought that information into my
family's diet (I cooked their meals!) and I talked about all the
interesting information that I was finding out. I was shocked at some
of the lies that I had previously believed and I shared this information
with my husband and children. I discovered that I had food allergies
and I found out how good that I could feel once I permanently took those
allergens out of my life. Then, after all of this talking and
discussing your newfound interest, let the rest of your family make
their final decisions on their own regarding their diet. Ultimately,
their bodies are their bodies. My family's diet (including some
extended family) has changed dramatically for the better since I went on
a personal quest to get healthy. I have never pressured them into
changing their diets. Example really works, lecturing seldom does.
Live the life that you wish that your family was living. Buy the foods
that are good for _you_. Keep stocked up in overflowing quantities
(this is really important as it is easier to eat healthy foods if they
are actually available and ready to eat). My 9 year old daughter, Zoë,
is a bigger advocate of healthy eating than I am!
This is a tough issue and definitely an important unschooling one. Food
is necessary every day and can affects every aspect of how a person's
quality of life is.
-Lisa in AZ
P.S. You might be interested in what "The China Study" by T. Colin
Campbell has to say about various diseases. They aren't caused by the
quantity of foods that we eat, but rather what the foods are.
http://www.thechinastudy.com or http:/www.drmcdougall.com
Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley
> I don't have any help to offer but just want to let you know that I have a similar concern...
> about my ds, 15. He's been heavy since he was seven or eight. I used to control food but
> quit about two years ago.
> His father and I are both overweight too....
> Ideas on what to do??Apologize for the previous food controlling. Decide to make life
changes yourself, tell your family, ask for their support of you, then
change. Sounds simple (and it is) however it is about the most
difficult thing in the world to do, too. As with other issues in life,
it really helps to find like minded people to help, too.
-Lisa in AZ
[email protected]
> -=- Because surely a 9 year old doesn't need a many calories as anThis is a shot in the dark, but I have a nagging thought that maybe (just
> > adult? -=-
>
maybe) the *hope* that adults need more food (to justify eating more as a reward
for being grown) might be one of the problems. I have ALWAYS (always, since
I was a kid taking health classes and hearing about the now-abandoned four
food groups) that kids needed more calories than sedentary adults, that physical
laborers needed more calories than deskworkers, that active adults needed more
than older folks who mostly sat, etc. And that nobody could pack it in and
walk away skinny like teenaged boys. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/2005 5:26:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kjennings95@... writes:
nutritious to get the delicious"! Which is wrong on so many levels... Our
starving children were in Africa, and I, too, still feel the guilt when throwing
food away-ESPECIALLY if it is in a restaurant, where I've paid more for it. I
like your idea of picturing it as cellulite! I get a refresher on my will power
every Sunday when we go to my parents and my mother not only tries to do the
same to my oldest (6), but will completely disgust me with her need to clean
every crumb off of all of our plates (but my dad and my husband... hmmm... that's
odd...) when we're done-even to the point of wiping the sauce up with her
finger and sucking it off... Ugh. I suggest the kiddo leave the room-that way he
doesn't have to watch it. I leave, too.
I am morbidly obese, too (clinically), and though not as "fit" or active as
you, have found that I have let society and my mother convince me that I am
weak and unhealthier than I am. I have been surprised by my level of fitness,
strength and endurance a few times since I've gotten so heavy. The mention of the
trampoline in front of the t.v., your story and the rest of the talk here has
inspired me-hope I can keep it going! Thanks!
Peace,
Sang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kjennings95@... writes:
> My mom was a "clean your plate, there are starving children in China" kindMy parents were the same way-my dad even had a "motto":, "You must eat the
> of mom. I got slapped for suggesting that we send the food to the starving
> children down the street, insubordination. She has changed her views 180
> degrees since then, but I still carry the guilt whenever I throw food away. (I
> picture it stuck to my butt as more lumpy cellulite, that helps! <g>)
>
nutritious to get the delicious"! Which is wrong on so many levels... Our
starving children were in Africa, and I, too, still feel the guilt when throwing
food away-ESPECIALLY if it is in a restaurant, where I've paid more for it. I
like your idea of picturing it as cellulite! I get a refresher on my will power
every Sunday when we go to my parents and my mother not only tries to do the
same to my oldest (6), but will completely disgust me with her need to clean
every crumb off of all of our plates (but my dad and my husband... hmmm... that's
odd...) when we're done-even to the point of wiping the sauce up with her
finger and sucking it off... Ugh. I suggest the kiddo leave the room-that way he
doesn't have to watch it. I leave, too.
I am morbidly obese, too (clinically), and though not as "fit" or active as
you, have found that I have let society and my mother convince me that I am
weak and unhealthier than I am. I have been surprised by my level of fitness,
strength and endurance a few times since I've gotten so heavy. The mention of the
trampoline in front of the t.v., your story and the rest of the talk here has
inspired me-hope I can keep it going! Thanks!
Peace,
Sang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Just in case anyone here didn't know, there are collections of comments from
some earlier food discussions here:
http://sandradodd.com/eating/longterm
http://sandradodd.com/food
The first is about longterm problems of controlling food, and the second is
the main portal to the food topics on my site.
Joyce has some food topics on her page, middle of righthand side:
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Efetteroll/rejoycing/
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Efetteroll/rejoycing/influencing%20kid%20behavior/food/food.html
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
some earlier food discussions here:
http://sandradodd.com/eating/longterm
http://sandradodd.com/food
The first is about longterm problems of controlling food, and the second is
the main portal to the food topics on my site.
Joyce has some food topics on her page, middle of righthand side:
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Efetteroll/rejoycing/
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Efetteroll/rejoycing/influencing%20kid%20behavior/food/food.html
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]