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Note after I finished writing: I just kind of veer around in a loop that
doesn't come back where it started. Three topics meandering. <g>

In a message dated 8/11/05 10:31:57 AM, gwendolin00@... writes:

Most of that describes how it was with us when Kirby was little and my
husband was way slower to catch on to what was up. <g> It was one step forward,
two steps back, and then eventually he passed me. Shocked me, when he started
pointing out to me when I was being inflexible and unreasonable, but it was
pretty cool. (Would've been good for him to be here earlier when I asked
Kirby to try to treat me more like a person and less like furniture. I wish I
hadn't said that. Maybe it will help and maybe it will hurt, but it was me
being whiney/pissy and not me being my best most mature self.)

> So pointing this cultural
> difference out has been fruitful, up until the other day when dh sort
> of half-heartedly tried to justify his  behavior by saying it was
> culturally relative.
Unrelated to your husband or mine, I'm jumping off from this to something
else. Twice over the years this list has had someone com on (I think it was
this list) and then back out because of the anti-spanking tone of it. In both
cases the mom was Black. In both cases spanking was held up as a cultural
tradition, and not negotiable but necessary. Culturally necessary. One mom
was from the Caribbean and one staying with her dad in New Orleans for a while.
The first time lots of moms argued and the mom (in Trinidad, I think) got
angry. The second time, nobody touched it and I felt bad for the mom, but it's
a cheap copout to say "I can't be nice to my child, it's not native to my

A lot of things are native to a lot of people's cultures, including mine.
Whipping kids, turning them out entirely in a case of pregnancy, taking their
money away from them if they work, throwing them out at 18 (or sooner).
Pushing them into military service. I saw that one lately, and heard of another
case (first family did school; second is homeschoolers). In the first, the
mom told her son (who was very attached, and hugged her evertime he woke up and
everytime he left or returned) that when he turned 18 he could either go to
college and pay for it all himself, or he could join the military. I guess
it didn't occur to him to say "When I'm 18 you don't get to limit my choices
anymore" so he joined the service.

In another family there are three, like mine but younger by a few years (15,
13, 11 I think) and the dad who has a very good job has not saved nor is he
planning to pay for college at all. He told them (just learned) that if they
want to go to college they need to join ROTC.

The oldest is a girl, and an artist, and not a ROTC type of person. She
wants to go to an art college out of state. She could go now. Her dad makes
her do online classes to get a high school diploma.

It's not the best thing he could be doing.


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