Heidi

We'll be going to visit my in-laws in May, and my mil hates the fact
that I homeschool. I haven't EVEN told her about unschooling. I'm
hoping and praying it doesn't even come up. She's usually pretty good
about keeping her mouth shut, and I KNOW she really really really
wants to nag me about it non-stop whenever we get together. The last
time we went, she managed to be quiet until the very last day of our
stay (which was too long by about three days. It was a four day
visit.) :\

My 10 year old isn't reading. That will give mil fits. We're not
teaching anything formally academic, though all the kids know how to
make any kind of change you can imagine, and are telling time "okay."
see, in her mind, they will even be behind in their stinking TIME
telling. I know this.

anyway. I need some "ammo" just in case. Something that'll give me
what to say to an overbearing, nagging former school teacher who
still believes the schools have "the way" for teaching and learning.

thanks

HeidiC

[email protected]

Cancel the visit.

Seriously.

Or keep as many hours of it as possible in public places, not at her house.

Or tell her you considered cancelling the visit, but you're willing to come
on the condition that she not discuss anything about education with you or the
children at all.

Those are my first thoughts.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

actually, there's no way to cancel. It is for a memorial service for
my recently deceased brother in law, hubby's bro.

But I am going to take a cue from you: no discussion of education at
all. If and when it happens (not if, I reckon) we will prepare to
leave. As it is, we'll only be there for about 24 hours.

wishing for the courage of my convictions, yet getting closer to that
ideal all the time.

HeidiC


--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> Cancel the visit.
>
> Seriously.
>
> Or keep as many hours of it as possible in public places, not at
her house.
>
> Or tell her you considered cancelling the visit, but you're willing
to come
> on the condition that she not discuss anything about education with
you or the
> children at all.
>
> Those are my first thoughts.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/3/2005 9:34:46 PM Mountain Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:

actually, there's no way to cancel. It is for a memorial service for
my recently deceased brother in law, hubby's bro.

-----------------



Ooooh.
Sorry about that.

Maybe carry a couple of photocopies of articles and if she brings it up, say
in your most funereal, soft voice that you had intended to talk to her about
that, and put the "pamphlet" gently in her hand with a sincere gaze and a
sqeeze of her hand and nod your head twice and turn away dramatically.

(Not before the service, after. All the way until you're in the driveway
trying to leave.)

I'd rehearse it with you if I were nearer.

This won't work every time, just memorial service times, so milk it.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

cslkll

I don't have any great words of wisdom to pass on, but
a fun song that we love in our house by Toby Keith has
a refrain that can really give a boost when one might need
it:
I'm livin' my life
Under my terms
I'm callin' the shots
As far as I can see
I don't owe nobody nothin'
I don't answer to a soul
Might not work for you
But it works for me
~~~~~~~~~
Sorry to hear about your bil. For the future, I second
Sandra's saying keep it to a public place if you can.
I've been lucky as we haven't seen dh's parents in 3.5 yrs,
and dh and I agree when it comes to seeing them again, we'll
be staying at a hotel and meeting at a public place. I'm not
going into her home where she feels comfortable to treat us
like shit. She can do it for the world to see if she needs too, lol.
safe travels, krista




--- In [email protected], "Heidi"
<bunsofaluminum60@h...> wrote:
>
> actually, there's no way to cancel. It is for a memorial service
for
> my recently deceased brother in law, hubby's bro.
>
> But I am going to take a cue from you: no discussion of education
at
> all. If and when it happens (not if, I reckon) we will prepare to
> leave. As it is, we'll only be there for about 24 hours.
>
> wishing for the courage of my convictions, yet getting closer to
that
> ideal all the time.
>
> HeidiC
>
>
> --- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a...
wrote:
> > Cancel the visit.
> >
> > Seriously.
> >
> > Or keep as many hours of it as possible in public places, not at
> her house.
> >
> > Or tell her you considered cancelling the visit, but you're
willing
> to come
> > on the condition that she not discuss anything about education
with
> you or the
> > children at all.
> >
> > Those are my first thoughts.
> >
> > Sandra
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Liz Stevens

**I've been lucky as we haven't seen dh's parents in 3.5 yrs, **


Oh man, this would be HEAVEN for me!

Liz

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

julie w

Its been almost that long for me too.
Partly due to the fact that we have too many pets to leave (darn...plus
for awhile there each time we all left for a vacation a pet would die or
disappear so....) and also I just cannot stand the way she treats my
poor FIL who has Alzheimer's. In her mind its all just something he's
doing on purpose to annoy her....
Its so sad...I adored my FIL.
He was a funny, intelligent, well read, honest to God Southern
Gentleman. So much fun to be around that I think I mourn his decent into
Alzheimer's as much as my husband does. He thought ds was the bees knees
and treated kids with so much respect.
I do not hate my MIL, but I do pity her. I've never met (I've known her
for more then 20 yrs) a more unhappy person in my life. She makes
everyone around her miserable (she has always been like this dh says) to
the point that none of her kids that live near-by want to visit.
It makes you wonder what her real story is....
I wonder if someday when she dies we'll discover old diaries from a
young woman who had dreams to go off somewhere and travel the world but
instead spent her life in a very small Kentucky town because she got
pregnant and had to marry a man who, though very wonderful, she did not
love. Or maybe there is some dark family secret from when she was young
that she has never gotten past....maybe my FIL was actually a
philandering husband who never gave her the love she needed but instead
held down a good job, provided well for her and helped her raise 4 great
sons. It could just be she wanted to work and was instead stuck by the
mores of the times at home.
I feel a book coming on.
I wish I could ask her, but she is the type to hold it all to her chest
and never "talk" about feelings and motivations. We've never been able
to get her to attend support groups for caregivers, either....I guess
its too much for her to examine what's going on. Truly it probably falls
under the NOMB code, but it does so affect everyone around her.
sigh
I hope that the way we have changed our parenting and relationships due
to knowing about unschooling and freedom (see got it back on track) will
help us to be open if questions are asked or things pointed out as we
move through life.
Probably more info then ya'll needed....
Julei W in AR

Liz Stevens wrote:

>
> **I've been lucky as we haven't seen dh's parents in 3.5 yrs, **
>
>
> Oh man, this would be HEAVEN for me!
>
> Liz
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], julie w
<jjjwoolfolk@s...> wrote:
> It makes you wonder what her real story is....
> I wonder if someday when she dies we'll discover old diaries from a
> young woman who had dreams to go off somewhere and travel the world
but
> instead spent her life in a very small Kentucky town because she
got
> pregnant and had to marry a man who, though very wonderful, she did
not
> love. Or maybe there is some dark family secret from when she was
young
> that she has never gotten past

> I feel a book coming on.

It's _The Bridges of Madison County_!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0446364495/104-5708897-1971937

Heidi

My poor husband went up there one time with the kids, and it was non-
stop haranguing him about homeschooling, from everyone (he has six
brothers, counting the deceased) until he finally blew up. He shouted
at his mom, told his brothers to buzz off, said "we've made the
decision to homeschool, and that's that!" and stormed off.

There hasn't been AS MUCH since then, but...well, my mil is an
extremely strong willed, vociferous, opinionated, person. She isn't
evil. When I got sick with cellulitis and had to stay off my feet,
she came and took care of the house for three days. Not evil, but
extremely high stress, knows the right way to do things, and is not
afraid to tell you when you are NOT doing it her way/the right way. I
just dread it. That's why I posted this in March, for a May visit: I
need time to fortify myself, and for us to fortify OURselves, as a
family.

thanks for all the advice. I'll be casing the other unschooling
websites for ideas, and maybe it won't come up at all. I plan on
calling my sil's to see "if there's anything I can bring? how can I
help?" and make it a "women helping the Mom and the brothers" kind of
get together.

blessings, HeidiC


--- In [email protected], "cslkll" <cslkll@h...>
wrote:
>
> I don't have any great words of wisdom to pass on, but
> a fun song that we love in our house by Toby Keith has
> a refrain that can really give a boost when one might need
> it:
> I'm livin' my life
> Under my terms
> I'm callin' the shots
> As far as I can see
> I don't owe nobody nothin'
> I don't answer to a soul
> Might not work for you
> But it works for me
> ~~~~~~~~~
> Sorry to hear about your bil. For the future, I second
> Sandra's saying keep it to a public place if you can.
> I've been lucky as we haven't seen dh's parents in 3.5 yrs,
> and dh and I agree when it comes to seeing them again, we'll
> be staying at a hotel and meeting at a public place. I'm not
> going into her home where she feels comfortable to treat us
> like shit. She can do it for the world to see if she needs too,
lol.
> safe travels, krista
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Heidi"
> <bunsofaluminum60@h...> wrote:
> >
> > actually, there's no way to cancel. It is for a memorial service
> for
> > my recently deceased brother in law, hubby's bro.
> >
> > But I am going to take a cue from you: no discussion of education
> at
> > all. If and when it happens (not if, I reckon) we will prepare to
> > leave. As it is, we'll only be there for about 24 hours.
> >
> > wishing for the courage of my convictions, yet getting closer to
> that
> > ideal all the time.
> >
> > HeidiC
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a...
> wrote:
> > > Cancel the visit.
> > >
> > > Seriously.
> > >
> > > Or keep as many hours of it as possible in public places, not
at
> > her house.
> > >
> > > Or tell her you considered cancelling the visit, but you're
> willing
> > to come
> > > on the condition that she not discuss anything about education
> with
> > you or the
> > > children at all.
> > >
> > > Those are my first thoughts.
> > >
> > > Sandra
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<<anyway. I need some "ammo" just in case. Something that'll give me
what to say to an overbearing, nagging former school teacher who
still believes the schools have "the way" for teaching and learning.>>>>>

My personal pick for anti-school literature is John Taylor Gatto. Since he
was an award winning public school teacher (in New York) at the time he
became disenchanted and began being very vocal in his critiques, he strikes
me as a good person to appeal to another teacher, credibility-wise. "Dumbing
Us Down" is short and probably more apropos than "The Underground History
etc"; I believe some of his articles such as "The Hidden Curriculum" are
available on line. Of course that is only half the story, but you have had
some other recommendations for the "pro Home Schooling" portion.

Robyn L. Coburn

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.6.0 - Release Date: 3/2/2005

Heidi

Hm, veddy good. John Taylor Gatto was instrumental in changing my
thinking about education. Hm. I may even have "Dumbing Us Down."
Dunno if it's unpacked. The Underground History IS unpacked,but
really...massive tome that it is, I doubt its handiness in this
situation. ;)

thanks for the ideas, Robyn

blessings, HeidiC


--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> <<<<anyway. I need some "ammo" just in case. Something that'll give
me
> what to say to an overbearing, nagging former school teacher who
> still believes the schools have "the way" for teaching and
learning.>>>>>
>
> My personal pick for anti-school literature is John Taylor Gatto.
Since he
> was an award winning public school teacher (in New York) at the
time he
> became disenchanted and began being very vocal in his critiques, he
strikes
> me as a good person to appeal to another teacher, credibility-
wise. "Dumbing
> Us Down" is short and probably more apropos than "The Underground
History
> etc"; I believe some of his articles such as "The Hidden
Curriculum" are
> available on line. Of course that is only half the story, but you
have had
> some other recommendations for the "pro Home Schooling" portion.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.6.0 - Release Date: 3/2/2005

jenneferh2000

I haven't been following this thread as I currently have more reading
material than I could possibly read before it's due back at the
library. Anyhow, this post caught my attention in the mentioning of
Gatto's The Underground History of American Education. I happen to
be reading it at the moment, and goes straight to my list of must
buys as I will never finish it w/o getting more library overdue
fines. I just want to say, please do not let its size intimidate you
from diving in! It is a great book, and his history of schooling is
extremely insightful. He also goes into detail of many people's
lives who have helped shape history for better or worse. I have also
read parts of his A Different Kind of Teacher and that was also very
interesting in a rough edged view of learning way. I especially
appreciate his view on learning and schools from a teacher's point of
view. This is something I appreciate about him and John Holt. Very
influencial to the unschooling 'movement' while first handedly
rejecting our schools.

I know unschooling is not for everyone, and we will probably always
need schools, but they don't have to continue to exist the way they
do now.

As an aside, the list AlwaysUnschooled will be having a book
discussion on Gatto's Dumbing Us Down in 2 or 3 months...

Jennefer in Oregon



--- In [email protected], "Heidi"
<bunsofaluminum60@h...> wrote:
>
> Hm, veddy good. John Taylor Gatto was instrumental in changing my
> thinking about education. Hm. I may even have "Dumbing Us Down."
> Dunno if it's unpacked. The Underground History IS unpacked,but
> really...massive tome that it is, I doubt its handiness in this
> situation. ;)
>
> thanks for the ideas, Robyn
>
> blessings, HeidiC
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
> <dezigna@c...> wrote:
> > <<<<anyway. I need some "ammo" just in case. Something that'll
give
> me
> > what to say to an overbearing, nagging former school teacher who
> > still believes the schools have "the way" for teaching and
> learning.>>>>>
> >
> > My personal pick for anti-school literature is John Taylor Gatto.
> Since he
> > was an award winning public school teacher (in New York) at the
> time he
> > became disenchanted and began being very vocal in his critiques,
he
> strikes
> > me as a good person to appeal to another teacher, credibility-
> wise. "Dumbing
> > Us Down" is short and probably more apropos than "The Underground
> History
> > etc"; I believe some of his articles such as "The Hidden
> Curriculum" are
> > available on line. Of course that is only half the story, but you
> have had
> > some other recommendations for the "pro Home Schooling" portion.
> >
> > Robyn L. Coburn
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.6.0 - Release Date:
3/2/2005

Nicole Willoughby

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/index.htm

If you go there and click on Underground History.................... then towards the top missle click on read book you can read it online.

Nicole

jenneferh2000 <jenneferh2000@...> wrote:

I haven't been following this thread as I currently have more reading
material than I could possibly read before it's due back at the
library. Anyhow, this post caught my attention in the mentioning of
Gatto's The Underground History of American Education. I happen to
be reading it at the moment, and goes straight to my list of must
buys as I will never finish it w/o getting more library overdue
fines. I just want to say, please do not let its size intimidate you
from diving in! It is a great book, and his history of schooling is
extremely insightful. He also goes into detail of many people's
lives who have helped shape history for better or worse. I have also
read parts of his A Different Kind of Teacher and that was also very
interesting in a rough edged view of learning way. I especially
appreciate his view on learning and schools from a teacher's point of
view. This is something I appreciate about him and John Holt. Very
influencial to the unschooling 'movement' while first handedly
rejecting our schools.

I know unschooling is not for everyone, and we will probably always
need schools, but they don't have to continue to exist the way they
do now.

As an aside, the list AlwaysUnschooled will be having a book
discussion on Gatto's Dumbing Us Down in 2 or 3 months...

Jennefer in Oregon



--- In [email protected], "Heidi"
<bunsofaluminum60@h...> wrote:
>
> Hm, veddy good. John Taylor Gatto was instrumental in changing my
> thinking about education. Hm. I may even have "Dumbing Us Down."
> Dunno if it's unpacked. The Underground History IS unpacked,but
> really...massive tome that it is, I doubt its handiness in this
> situation. ;)
>
> thanks for the ideas, Robyn
>
> blessings, HeidiC
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
> <dezigna@c...> wrote:
> > <<<<anyway. I need some "ammo" just in case. Something that'll
give
> me
> > what to say to an overbearing, nagging former school teacher who
> > still believes the schools have "the way" for teaching and
> learning.>>>>>
> >
> > My personal pick for anti-school literature is John Taylor Gatto.
> Since he
> > was an award winning public school teacher (in New York) at the
> time he
> > became disenchanted and began being very vocal in his critiques,
he
> strikes
> > me as a good person to appeal to another teacher, credibility-
> wise. "Dumbing
> > Us Down" is short and probably more apropos than "The Underground
> History
> > etc"; I believe some of his articles such as "The Hidden
> Curriculum" are
> > available on line. Of course that is only half the story, but you
> have had
> > some other recommendations for the "pro Home Schooling" portion.
> >
> > Robyn L. Coburn
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.6.0 - Release Date:
3/2/2005





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Danielle Conger

==

As an aside, the list AlwaysUnschooled will be having a book
discussion on Gatto's Dumbing Us Down in 2 or 3 months...

==

Actually, Gatto's NEXT month! We discuss books, beginning the fourth
Monday of the month very informally. At this moment, we seem to be
discussing two different books--Whole Child/ Whole Parent_ and _How to
Talk So Kids Will Listen_.

AlwaysUnschooled is an email list geared towards Unschooling young
children, under age 8 or so. Members can access our book discussion list
by clicking on the "Calendar" link on the group webpage, then clicking
the tab "Event Lists" at the top of the calendar. That will bring up a
book discussion schedule through mid 2006! *lol* We just keep adding
books we want to talk about.

~~Danielle, co-listowner
Emily (7), Julia (6), Sam (4.5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha


>
>

TreeGoddess

On Mar 6, 2005, at 2:40 AM, jenneferh2000 wrote:

[Gatto's The Underground History of American Education.]

-=-I happen to be reading it at the moment, and goes straight
to my list of must buys as I will never finish it w/o getting
more library overdue fines.-=-

Read it online at http://johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm

-=-As an aside, the list AlwaysUnschooled will be having a
book discussion on Gatto's Dumbing Us Down in 2 or 3
months...-=-

We're set to discuss it over there starting March 28th. Gotta get my
copy dusted off for a re-read. :)

-Tracy-

"Every moment spent in unhappiness is a moment of
happiness lost." -- Leo Buscaglia