Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] yes, ma'am
Millie Rosa
Hi. This is my first post on this list. I have been here about a month.
I am watching this discussion w interest, as I am about as far south as you can get (since South Florida isn't really "The South").
In response to this:
"It seems that would mean they think it's acceptable to most people,
wouldn't
it?
Where and in what circumstances are children most openly spanked?"
Disrespect of children and spanking IS acceptable to most people here. In fact, many have a really hard time accepting the fact that I won't spank mine.
Where are children openly spanked? Um, in the grocery store, in elevators, the park, the library....everywhere.
As far as the reasons are concerned, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is religion. Most folks around here are extremely fundamentalist, conservative....southern Baptist. I have attended more than one of these churches, and the sermon consists of the preacher pointing at you and hollering how you are going to burn in hell. I once went to pay my landlord and she got into my car, with my extremely aware, very young child in the back seat, and told me that he could die and be sent to roast in hell because I didn't take him to her church. I kept begging her to cut out that imagery in front of my baby and get out of my car, but she refused, stating that I couldn't ignore it because it could happen. They believe that God is judgemental, punitive, demands obedience....and so they translate it towards their children. (PLEASE don't let me offend anyone's religion here....I am not stating here that these beliefs are wrong).
My sister holds these beliefs....she goes to a southern baptist church and she beats her kids (though she hates to hear me say it and says she doesn't beat them, but is lovingly correcting them as is her christian duty)...and she tells me that THE MOST IMPORTANT lesson her children need to learn is obedience. My family cannot stand to hear me interact w my son, as I consider his viewpoint, and WILL take NO for an answer.
Anyway. On the ma-am and sir thing, I hate this and was determined to not teach my son anything about it. I decided to help him learn to address my mom and dad as "Yes, Ama," and "Yes, Papa," thinking this would be just as respectful. But, Alas, they demand the sir and ma'am. It seems to me that it is less about him respecting them as doing what is necessary to be respected by them. That is, if he doesn't address my mother with a ma'am, then she will not respond to him. I did try to help him by speaking to him w a yes and no sir, modeling it towards him before he is exposed to them. SO he started addressing my mom as Yes sir. I dropped that. I just try to limit his exposure to them and when they are in contact, she prompts him to call her ma'am. I don't say anything. It is her issue and not mine!
I would love to live in another area where spanking is the exception and not the rule.
Until then, I am daily thankful for the online community which helps to validate my thoughts and opinions and lets me know I am not the only person in the world who realizes that children are fully people. Though it does feel like I may be the only one in Mississippi who knows it!
Millie
by the riverside
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am watching this discussion w interest, as I am about as far south as you can get (since South Florida isn't really "The South").
In response to this:
"It seems that would mean they think it's acceptable to most people,
wouldn't
it?
Where and in what circumstances are children most openly spanked?"
Disrespect of children and spanking IS acceptable to most people here. In fact, many have a really hard time accepting the fact that I won't spank mine.
Where are children openly spanked? Um, in the grocery store, in elevators, the park, the library....everywhere.
As far as the reasons are concerned, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is religion. Most folks around here are extremely fundamentalist, conservative....southern Baptist. I have attended more than one of these churches, and the sermon consists of the preacher pointing at you and hollering how you are going to burn in hell. I once went to pay my landlord and she got into my car, with my extremely aware, very young child in the back seat, and told me that he could die and be sent to roast in hell because I didn't take him to her church. I kept begging her to cut out that imagery in front of my baby and get out of my car, but she refused, stating that I couldn't ignore it because it could happen. They believe that God is judgemental, punitive, demands obedience....and so they translate it towards their children. (PLEASE don't let me offend anyone's religion here....I am not stating here that these beliefs are wrong).
My sister holds these beliefs....she goes to a southern baptist church and she beats her kids (though she hates to hear me say it and says she doesn't beat them, but is lovingly correcting them as is her christian duty)...and she tells me that THE MOST IMPORTANT lesson her children need to learn is obedience. My family cannot stand to hear me interact w my son, as I consider his viewpoint, and WILL take NO for an answer.
Anyway. On the ma-am and sir thing, I hate this and was determined to not teach my son anything about it. I decided to help him learn to address my mom and dad as "Yes, Ama," and "Yes, Papa," thinking this would be just as respectful. But, Alas, they demand the sir and ma'am. It seems to me that it is less about him respecting them as doing what is necessary to be respected by them. That is, if he doesn't address my mother with a ma'am, then she will not respond to him. I did try to help him by speaking to him w a yes and no sir, modeling it towards him before he is exposed to them. SO he started addressing my mom as Yes sir. I dropped that. I just try to limit his exposure to them and when they are in contact, she prompts him to call her ma'am. I don't say anything. It is her issue and not mine!
I would love to live in another area where spanking is the exception and not the rule.
Until then, I am daily thankful for the online community which helps to validate my thoughts and opinions and lets me know I am not the only person in the world who realizes that children are fully people. Though it does feel like I may be the only one in Mississippi who knows it!
Millie
by the riverside
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/05 7:22:33 PM, willsmamamillie@... writes:
<< Most folks around here are extremely fundamentalist,
conservative....southern Baptist. I have attended more than one of these churches, and the sermon
consists of the preacher pointing at you and hollering how you are going to
burn in hell. >>
Been there.
-=-My sister holds these beliefs....she goes to a southern baptist church and
she beats her kids (though she hates to hear me say it and says she doesn't
beat them, but is lovingly correcting them as is her christian duty)...and she
tells me that THE MOST IMPORTANT lesson her children need to learn is
obedience. -=-
There are some things here that might help your sister, sometime when she's
receptive or needy of it:
http://sandradodd.com/spanking
There are Christian reasons NOT to spank, linked there. And there are
disgusting Christian-justified spanking writings that might shame her into looking
at what she's doing in a different light.
-=- It seems to me that it is less about him respecting them as doing what is
necessary to be respected by them. -=-
Well I think it's the hazing thing. If he wants respect, he can grow up and
have kids and demand it from them.
-=-I am daily thankful for the online community which helps to validate my
thoughts and opinions and lets me know I am not the only person in the world who
realizes that children are fully people. Though it does feel like I may be
the only one in Mississippi who knows it! -=-
That has to be hard. I bet there are things in the spanking links that could
help you too, then. Defenses or quotes, at least, that you can use when
others are openly critical.
Sandra
<< Most folks around here are extremely fundamentalist,
conservative....southern Baptist. I have attended more than one of these churches, and the sermon
consists of the preacher pointing at you and hollering how you are going to
burn in hell. >>
Been there.
-=-My sister holds these beliefs....she goes to a southern baptist church and
she beats her kids (though she hates to hear me say it and says she doesn't
beat them, but is lovingly correcting them as is her christian duty)...and she
tells me that THE MOST IMPORTANT lesson her children need to learn is
obedience. -=-
There are some things here that might help your sister, sometime when she's
receptive or needy of it:
http://sandradodd.com/spanking
There are Christian reasons NOT to spank, linked there. And there are
disgusting Christian-justified spanking writings that might shame her into looking
at what she's doing in a different light.
-=- It seems to me that it is less about him respecting them as doing what is
necessary to be respected by them. -=-
Well I think it's the hazing thing. If he wants respect, he can grow up and
have kids and demand it from them.
-=-I am daily thankful for the online community which helps to validate my
thoughts and opinions and lets me know I am not the only person in the world who
realizes that children are fully people. Though it does feel like I may be
the only one in Mississippi who knows it! -=-
That has to be hard. I bet there are things in the spanking links that could
help you too, then. Defenses or quotes, at least, that you can use when
others are openly critical.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/2005 9:19:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, Millie Rosa <willsmamamillie@...> writes:
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org/
See how easy it is, Rue? <g>
~Kelly
>Until then, I am daily thankful for the online community which helps to validate my thoughts and opinions and lets me know I am not the only person in the world who realizes that children are fully people. Though it does feel like I may be the only one in Mississippi who knows it!AAHHH! by the *Mississippi* riverside! Millie, if you just drive north in October, you can be *surrounded* by unschoolers in St Louis!
>
>Millie
>by the riverside<<<<
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org/
See how easy it is, Rue? <g>
~Kelly
Dana Matt
> I would love to live in another area where spankingWow, it sure is interesting to read about all of the
> is the exception and not the rule.
cultural differences from one side of the country to
another. I have always lived in Washington, Idaho or
Montana, and I don't think the word "sir" has ever
left my mouth--and I *KNOW* Ma'am hasn't! I think
I've only been called ma'am twice that I can remember,
and it bothered me both times--I thought--What, am I
70? Up here it's just not a good thing. If I were
talking to a stranger, I would just say "How are you
today?"....and if they didn't hear me I would say
"Excuse me"....Where would the Ma'am or Sir even come
in? lol, there was a man trying to get another man's
attention in the street in front of my house the other
day, and he yelled "Hey! Hey! Hey, guy!" lol, now
THAT sounded awkward ;)
About the spanking...I know that people in the West
*DO* spank, but I NEVER see it. It's not an
in-the-store thing around here.
Dana
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Rue Kream
>>See how easy it is, Rue? <g>**Ah, but you have a gift. It's not so easy for those of who are
plugificationally challenged. Ma'am <g>. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-=-I have always lived in Washington, Idaho or
Montana, and I don't think the word "sir" has ever
left my mouth--and I *KNOW* Ma'am hasn't! -=-
I've used them in the SCA, but to knights and queens. <g>
(I've used them occasionally other times, but usually with conscious thought and self-conscious review.)
-=-I thought--What, am I
70? Up here it's just not a good thing. -=-
See, Kelly? It's not just me being difficult. There is an area of the country (maybe most of the country, but I'm speaking for mountain SW) where it's just not done in normal everyday circumstances.
-=-About the spanking...I know that people in the West
*DO* spank, but I NEVER see it. It's not an
in-the-store thing around here.
-=-
And maybe that's why it has been easy for me or Holly to say something when we've seen it, or the threat of it, because it's rare and generally unaccepted. They need to save it for church or home.
Sandra
Montana, and I don't think the word "sir" has ever
left my mouth--and I *KNOW* Ma'am hasn't! -=-
I've used them in the SCA, but to knights and queens. <g>
(I've used them occasionally other times, but usually with conscious thought and self-conscious review.)
-=-I thought--What, am I
70? Up here it's just not a good thing. -=-
See, Kelly? It's not just me being difficult. There is an area of the country (maybe most of the country, but I'm speaking for mountain SW) where it's just not done in normal everyday circumstances.
-=-About the spanking...I know that people in the West
*DO* spank, but I NEVER see it. It's not an
in-the-store thing around here.
-=-
And maybe that's why it has been easy for me or Holly to say something when we've seen it, or the threat of it, because it's rare and generally unaccepted. They need to save it for church or home.
Sandra
Nisha
--- In [email protected], Millie Rosa
<willsmamamillie@y...> wrote:
But, Alas, they demand the sir and ma'am. It seems to me that it
is less about him respecting them as doing what is necessary to be
respected by them. That is, if he doesn't address my mother with a
ma'am, then she will not respond to him. I did try to help him by
speaking to him w a yes and no sir, modeling it towards him before
he is exposed to them.
I kind of helped the kids out on this issue. They learned that yes
please or no thank you worked with everyone when they were little.
That way the sir and maam thing wasn't an issue too much, since they
were still "Being polite". Lets face it, *I* can't always tell when
someone is male or female, let alone the kiddos. LOL
nisha
<willsmamamillie@y...> wrote:
But, Alas, they demand the sir and ma'am. It seems to me that it
is less about him respecting them as doing what is necessary to be
respected by them. That is, if he doesn't address my mother with a
ma'am, then she will not respond to him. I did try to help him by
speaking to him w a yes and no sir, modeling it towards him before
he is exposed to them.
I kind of helped the kids out on this issue. They learned that yes
please or no thank you worked with everyone when they were little.
That way the sir and maam thing wasn't an issue too much, since they
were still "Being polite". Lets face it, *I* can't always tell when
someone is male or female, let alone the kiddos. LOL
nisha