[email protected]

hi everyone,

i don't know if anyone remembers me here. i've moved to st louis,
missouri now, and my daughter got a little older. i think she'd like
to do gymnastics, because she is always walking on borders, or
hanging on bars, or tubling, jumping, etc... i tried taking her to a
gymnastics class twice now, and both times it was a disaster! she
loved the place, loved wearing the leotard, loved the mats, and all
the cool equipment. she run right in, when other kids were making a
line and walking in like little soldiers, she went wherever she
wanted and did what she wanted, pretty much ignoring the teacher..
she refused to get dressed and leave when the class was done! i
talked to her before the first class, after it was over, and before
the second class. i told her that she had to listen to the teacher or
she couldn't go. the second time, she really did try - she sat in the
little circle, listened to the teacher, tried some of the things that
were shown to her, but did not want to follow the instructions for
anything, and soon started to go off on her own again. there is
a 'open gym' but it's only once a MONTH. no teachers want her in
their class! i tried showing her some of the stretches and such at
home, but she just does not want to do it the way i show her, and i
can see how this would frustrate a teacher! i feel like crying. i
KNOW she could be so good at this, and really enjoy it, and finally
make friends, but no teacher would want her if she keeps acting like
this. does anyone else have similar experiences, where they succeded?
or some other advise? besides her loving gymnastics-like activities
and her needing excercise, she also needs to have something that she
does weekly with the same small group of kids, so that she can have
friends to invite to her fourth birthday party.

--inna

Fetteroll

on 1/18/05 10:33 PM, SpinFrog@... at SpinFrog@... wrote:

> i
> KNOW she could be so good at this, and really enjoy it, and finally
> make friends

Whenever I've thought this I've been seriously wrong because I'm seeing what
could be if my daughter were different, not what my daughter is really
asking for. If she could enjoy it, she'd be enjoying it right now. What
she's showing you is that she wants to freely explore the equipment on her
own. Help her find a way to do that!

If you don't push her into a class before she wants it, then when/if she
does want a class then she'll be eager for it. Unschooling is about
providing opportunities not manipulating things so kids take up the
opportunities.

I think a better option is finding a homeschool group that meets at a gym
where kids can freely play. If there isn't one around, check things out
yourself at local gyms and boys clubs and YMCAs and so forth and set one up!
:-)

And in the spring look for groups that meet at a playground.

> she also needs to have something that she
> does weekly with the same small group of kids, so that she can have
> friends to invite to her fourth birthday party.

And I've also found that when there's a separate agenda from the intent of a
group that it's harder to fit into the group and get out of it what the
group offers.

Look for some play groups and help her play :-) Are you on local
homeschooling lists? I think you're overly concerned about friends when you
are more important to her life right now than anything else. Don't worry
about having kids for the party. She's not old enough to have this fixed
idea about what a birthday is "supposed" to be. It can be whatever you want.
She's probably not going to remember it -- unless you're all stressed out
and miserable because you can't provide her with something she probably
doesn't even want! Relax about the friends and help her have fun. Even if
you don't say anything, you'll be projecting a desperate need for something
and it's going to affect your daughter and how people react to you and her.
So take a deep breath and relax. Things will be fine.

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/19/2005 5:32:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
SpinFrog@... writes:

i've moved to st louis,
missouri now, and my daughter got a little older.<<<<<

Then you shouldn't miss the fourth annual Live and Learn Unschooling
Conference that will be coming to Fairview Heights, IL----just over the
river---October 6-9, 2005
_http://liveandlearnconference.org/_ (http://liveandlearnconference.org/)



>>>>> i think she'd like
to do gymnastics, because she is always walking on borders, or
hanging on bars, or tubling, jumping, etc... i tried taking her to a
gymnastics class twice now, and both times it was a disaster!<<<<


You can also make a lot of these things at home: railroad ties make good,
not-to-high, rather-wide balance beams. Tumbling mats and swinging bars and
mini-trampolines should cover all her needs to move.

>>>> she loved the place, loved wearing the leotard, loved the mats, and all
the cool equipment. <snip> there is a 'open gym' but it's only once a
MONTH.<<<<
Buy lots of pretty leotards. Look at other gyms (or make your own, like I
suggested above). She's *very* little, I wouldn't expect any child to follow the
rules that closely at that age..

>>>>>>> no teachers want her in
their class! i tried showing her some of the stretches and such at
home, but she just does not want to do it the way i show her, and i
can see how this would frustrate a teacher!<<<<<<<

Again---try another gym or just be patient and wait----she's really little.
The teacher is supposed to be there for the CHILD, not the other way around.
You could also ask for private lessons, so that she could get the undivided
attention of the teacher. Then try group classes when she understands more
about class rules. I'd just wait.


>>>>>or some other advise? <<<<

Back off.

>>>>besides her loving gymnastics-like activities
and her needing excercise, she also needs to have something that she
does weekly with the same small group of kids,<<<<<

Did she ask for that? At three?

I've never been in a city that didn't have some kind of toddlers' group
(several)---for moms with preschoolers: they get together weekly for park days
and such. I'd just look around a bit. Not to mention all the homeschool
groups----you should really connect with the groups in your area.

>>>> so that she can have friends to invite to her fourth birthday party.
<<<<<<

This is really hardly a reason to be pushing this issue. She'll make friends
as she does. If she had friends in her old city, you could even have a
long-distance party.

I'm a HUGE party fan, but this is not a good reason to be pushing her to be
someone she is not.

Time. Patience. Maybe her own personal backyard/basement gym. And a
homeschool group.

~Kelly




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/19/2005 4:32:35 AM Central Standard Time,
SpinFrog@... writes:


KNOW she could be so good at this, and really enjoy it, and finally
make friends, but no teacher would want her if she keeps acting like
this. does anyone else have similar experiences, where they succeded?
or some other advise? besides her loving gymnastics-like activities
and her needing excercise, she also needs to have something that she
does weekly with the same small group of kids, so that she can have
friends to invite to her fourth birthday party.



~~~

She's not ready for a gymnastics class, and she's showing you. She's only
3. She has plenty of time to learn how to stand in line and do what someone
tells her to. It's just not part of the scenario right now, though.

Forcing her to do it the teacher's way and you being disappointed when she
doesn't is only going to make her hate gymnastics. There's no hurry for her
to learn the stretches and all that. She's still so young she's made of
rubber anyway.

Take her to the open gym anyway. In our town there are community centers you
can walk right into on any given day, get out the tumbling mats and tumble
til your heart's content. That's what I'd find for her.

And drop the idea of making friends "to invite to her fourth birthday
party". That's just creepy. You want friends because you like them and they're
fun and they like you. Find a playgroup in your area, or an unschooling group.
Don't make a deadline to have friends by her birthday party. Just make
friends, with no goal in mind.

She is ONLY 3. That is soooo young. Expect her to keep liking gymnastics
(whether she's good at it or not) as long as you don't pressure her.

Karen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I agree about providing her more "gym" stuff at home.
Take her to parks with climbing equipment.
Maybe find a teen who has done tumbling and pay her to play with your kid
once a week. It could be like private lessons, but I would say to the kid that
if the little girl doesn't want to do something, not to press. It would be
okay with me if the session turned into playing with dolls or looking at bugs.

Maybe get some exercise videos or take a yoga class together.

Finding a playgroup where families get together would still net her some
contacts, but she wouldn't be thrust into a group situation without her mom.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], SpinFrog@y... wrote:
there is
> a 'open gym' but it's only once a MONTH.

I agree with what others have said about a class not being right for
her right now. There are different gyms with different attitudes and
different types of classes. We first went to a local cheap class when
ds was 2 and the teachers were idiots. Then we went to Gymboree--far
away and expensive--and the teachers actually knew how to interact
with different types of kids and it was great (and they don't force
kids to join in the activities). If you have one anywhere near you,
check it out! You don't have to join at the beginning of one of their
sessions--if they have room in a class, you can join half way through
and pay a pro-rated amount. They also have open gym-type classes
weekly. And you get to try a class for free. Can you tell I miss it?

The local MOMS Club arranged something recently at a local gym where
there were things for babies/toddlers to do with moms and at the same
time, the older kids could go off to the other end of the gym for a
class. It was wonderful for me, because usually there's a class for
one kid while the other kid is supposed to be waiting! Anyway, my
point was going to be that if there's not currently an opportunity
for 3 year olds to have an open gym weekly, talk to people, see if
you can round up a demand for it and then ask the gym if they have
time for it.

no teachers want her in
> their class! i tried showing her some of the stretches and such at
> home, but she just does not want to do it the way i show her, and i
> can see how this would frustrate a teacher! i feel like crying. i
> KNOW she could be so good at this, and really enjoy it, and finally
> make friends, but no teacher would want her if she keeps acting
like
> this.

It sounds like this is really important to you for this to happen,
but she's pretty clearly saying this is not what she wants right now.
She has many years to learn gymnastics. She doesn't need to feel like
a failure at age three! Her activities should be easy for her and
fun, not forced. When she's ready, it will be clear.

When we went to this MOMS Club class recently, I was really not sure
if ds would go off with the teacher or if he'd prefer to stay with
me. Okay, I assumed he'd stay with me, honestly, based on other
experiences! I was filling out paperwork when the teacher came over
looking for any more 4 year olds. He went off with her and never
glanced back once in 45 minutes. The room was huge and most of the
time I could barely see him. They told me he was wonderful and "so
advanced" and could and would do everything they asked. At 2-3, he
would run screaming from the teachers if they tried to talk to him.
He's ready now, he wasn't then.

Oh, if you want to buy stuff for home,
http://www.discountschoolsupply.com has better prices than other
places I've seen.

My 2 and 4 year olds love the video "Yoga for Kids", too.

--aj

[email protected]

thanks for writing back everyone.

and thank you SO much for telling me the conference is so close to my
new home, i will definately start making plans.

i think a big part of my problem is that i lack support. both my
relatives and my husband are fans of 'authority'. they are humouring
me as much as they can, but is i veer off course, they would cheer.
so it's great to have all of you to tell me to back off and let the
kid be.

i am trying to get in touch with local groups, and also thinking
about creating a gym in my basement. maybe it does seem creepy that
one of my goals is for her to make friends, but she seems to really
want friends - she is hugging little kids she meets at the grocery
store or the indoor play space we go to!

i do take her to outdoor playgrounds when it's warmer. and there seem
to be a few gyms in the area that i'll check out. taking a yoga class
with her may not work for the same reasons gymnastics isn't working,
don't you think?

what do you mean she was 'without her mom'? she was not scared and
ran right in, and i was right where she could see me the whole time,
and she could come to me - and did - when she needed.

i have tried getting a kids yoga video, but it was loud and had too
many bright colors and the 'actors' seemed embarassed to be doing
yoga, and tried to pretend it was really all about hip hop and
jumping around. can any of you recommend good yoga or other exercise-
type videos?

see, the reason i thought it would work is that she doesn't usually
act 'young'. she can mostly explain why she doesn't like or want
something, and can say 'no' to things. she keeps saying 'yes' to
gymnastics, she keeps saying 'i want to go back, i promise i will
stay with teacher'.. sigh. i am going to try one more class that's
designed for younger children and where i can participare with her.
if not, then maybe we'll try again when she's 4 or 5.

thanks again for the help!
inna

Kathy Metzger

SpinFrog@... wrote:
<<i am trying to get in touch with local groups>>

Hi, I just wanted to let you know I live near St. Louis, also, and we have a group that tries to get together each week that ranges in ages from around 7 years old down to babies. It's a very unstructured group, we just make plans as we go, so some weeks we don't get together at all, especially around the holidays, but have recently started meeting up again. I have a daughter that will be 4 in February and also a baby who is 6 weeks old. If you are interested, here's the link the the Yahoo group, we'd love to meet you!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STLFOG_Preschool/

Kathy


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Faith Pickell

Hi Inna! Didn't you say you live in St. Louis? That is where I live
too. I have a 13 yr old DS, 3 1/2 yr old twin DS', and a 4 mo old DD.
I am in 3 homeschool groups here. We live out in O'Fallon, but the
group is all over. E-mail me and I can give you the info and hopefully
we can get together.

Faith


On Wednesday, January 19, 2005, at 06:26 PM, SpinFrog@... wrote:

>
>
>
> thanks for writing back everyone.
>
> and thank you SO much for telling me the conference is so close to my
> new home, i will definately start making plans.
>
> i think a big part of my problem is that i lack support. both my
> relatives and my husband are fans of 'authority'. they are humouring
> me as much as they can, but is i veer off course, they would cheer.
> so it's great to have all of you to tell me to back off and let the
> kid be.
>
> i am trying to get in touch with local groups, and also thinking
> about creating a gym in my basement. maybe it does seem creepy that
> one of my goals is for her to make friends, but she seems to really
> want friends - she is hugging little kids she meets at the grocery
> store or the indoor play space we go to!
>
> i do take her to outdoor playgrounds when it's warmer. and there seem
> to be a few gyms in the area that i'll check out. taking a yoga class
> with her may not work for the same reasons gymnastics isn't working,
> don't you think?
>
> what do you mean she was 'without her mom'? she was not scared and
> ran right in, and i was right where she could see me the whole time,
> and she could come to me - and did - when she needed.
>
> i have tried getting a kids yoga video, but it was loud and had too
> many bright colors and the 'actors' seemed embarassed to be doing
> yoga, and tried to pretend it was really all about hip hop and
> jumping around. can any of you recommend good yoga or other exercise-
> type videos?
>
> see, the reason i thought it would work is that she doesn't usually
> act 'young'. she can mostly explain why she doesn't like or want
> something, and can say 'no' to things. she keeps saying 'yes' to
> gymnastics, she keeps saying 'i want to go back, i promise i will
> stay with teacher'.. sigh. i am going to try one more class that's
> designed for younger children and where i can participare with her.
> if not, then maybe we'll try again when she's 4 or 5.
>
> thanks again for the help!
> inna
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Barbara Chase

>she keeps saying 'yes' to gymnastics, she keeps saying 'i want to go back,
>i promise i will stay with teacher'.. sigh. i am going to try one more
>class that's designed for younger children and where i can participare
>with her.
>if not, then maybe we'll try again when she's 4 or 5.

If your dd really wants to do a gymnastics class, find one that is more
suited to her and her natural exploration, especially at her age. Frankly,
I don't think the structure of gymnastics really applies until the kids can
pay attention to the techniques, and that's maybe 6 or 7... but that's just
my casual observation of the classes we used to attend with my own dd.

When she was 3 she happened to see a class, and wanted to join. It was
designed for young toddlers, and wasn't even called gymnastics - it was
called tumbling. The teacher put out all of the same equipment at
different stations, and each Mom casually and naturally manned the station
to help out. There were no lines, no hassles with the kids, no techniques
required. The kids were able to move about however they wanted, from
station to station - or over and over in the same place. This is probably
what people are calling 'open gym'.

The teacher that offered this class ran her classes pretty much like this
until the kids got more serious themselves (and also until they had been in
school and were used to the "routine".) But, but the class wasn't designed
for serious competition gymnastics. She wanted it to be fun for the kids.
She doesn't offer the youngster class at the moment because she has 2 young
kids of her own now and can't afford the time away... otherwise my dd would
still be there.

I also want to encourage you to not care what the teacher thinks. It's
much more important what your dd thinks, you want to support her not the
teacher. We're so ingrained to "respect" teachers as the authorities, but
unfortunately they can often stifle the natural interest and learning
talents of our kids. If a teacher doesn't want your child in their class,
think of it as a blessing and know that the truth is probably that you
don't want the teacher.


Mahalo,
Barbara


ps. Hi everyone. I'm back, hopefully for awhile. I've been on this list
for several years now, but mostly too busy but lurking or on nomail
because of training that I've been doing for a new career as a bodyworker.
My DH and I have one daughter who is just 6, and we live in N. Calif, North
of SF.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<what do you mean she was 'without her mom'?.... i am going to try one
more class that's designed for younger children and where i can participare
with her. if not, then maybe we'll try again when she's 4 or 5.>>>

I gathered that this was the kind of thing people meant in comparing "with"
or "without" Mom - Mom participating and being right beside her, rather than
in the waiting area, even if visible.

When Jayn (now 5) began her dance classes, two years ago, it was with a
bunch of little girls she already knew from our homeschooling park days.
However I still had to sit in the dance room (above the garage in the
house), where she could come to me and sit if she needed to. The dance
teacher, whose goal is "fostering children's creativity and love of movement
in a non-judgmental environment" was completely understanding of this
breaking of her usual procedure. Over the first year I moved from being in
the room, to on the stairs, then in the second year down to the living room
below (another rule broken), and now finally Jayn runs off into the house
with no concerns at all and I chat with the other parents outside.

<<<<i have tried getting a kids yoga video, but it was loud and had too
many bright colors and the 'actors' seemed embarassed to be doing
yoga, and tried to pretend it was really all about hip hop and
jumping around. can any of you recommend good yoga or other exercise-
type videos?>>>

Jayn and I have a couple of Yoga Zone videos, very much gentle moving and
twisting, and our absolute favorite is Rodney Yee and his associates - "Yoga
for Beginners" - "AM/Stress Relief/PM" very serene and gentle. The DVD
version includes all three sessions, and a section on how to use the tools
which is very helpful. Jayn will usually encourage us to do a good hour of
it. If it is jumping about it is a different kind of Yoga - some of the
traditions are very active and athletic.

Jayn dances to the music in her ordinary dvd's, especially the credits of
some of them. It is the music that is important to her, rather than the
viduals. I don't think she is remotely willing to sacrifice her personal
choreography for the sake of following someone else's in a dvd.

Robyn L. Coburn


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