Diana Tashjian

I'm not sure this is exactly the right place for this but please if
any of you could point me in any directions for more information and
facts I'd really appreciate it.

Are people who don't have a college degree at a marked disadvantage in
our society?

Is it getting harder and harder to get accepted into colleges?

I understand that some of this is subjective. I tend to answer the
questions "no" and "no" but many people around me, including my
husband, would disagree with me on both counts.

From stuff that I've read, I thought that if you discounted the big
name colleges and universities that supposedly *everybody* wants to
get into, there were plenty of colleges out there that anyone who
really wants to go could get themselves admitted to. My husband
disagrees with me and says that getting accepted into any college is
getting harder and harder and more competitive.

Who's right? And where could I go to find out some information on
this?

Thanks,
Diana Tashjian

Fetteroll

I just received an email from Amazon announcing that HP #6 would be released
on July 16!

Joyce

soggyboysmom

--- In [email protected], "Diana Tashjian"
<dtashjian@c...> wrote:
> Are people who don't have a college degree at a marked
disadvantage in our society?
>
There are two parts to this I think:
Employment-wise, not as much anymore - it was for a while but I
think the dawn of the Web generation has changed that. You've got
entrepreneurs like Bill Gates (who dropped out to spend more time
developing a little company called Microsoft) saying Look, a college
degree isn't essential for everyone. Yes, for some things it helps -
if you want to get anywhere in accounting, a CPA helps. If you want
to be a college professor, an MA or PhD is usually required. For
medical professions, the MD or RN or whatever are required for
licensing purposes. But the guy who used to be my boss and is now in
upper management in this software development firm doesn't have a
college degree. The guy in the next office to me (same job, same
pay) has a 2 yr tech school diploma. More and more, if you have
evidence that you can do the work, you'll get the job. Sometimes a
college degree is just an easier way to get that proof - but I've
known many degreed people in my career who really were slim on
ability to actually do the job they were hired to do. And,
sometimes, spending the same 4 or 5 years working your way in from
the bottom up is just as acceptable. DH worked as a stocker in
retail, in a mailroom, and in a shop situation (cutting sheets of
plastic for something or other) BUT he also taught himself enough
computer skills (back in the late 80s and early 90s) that he was
hired to do phone support for a software company - the big skills
they wanted were self-motivated learner and creative problem-solver.
From there he moved to another company where in addition to phone
support he taught himself HTML (back in the hand-type it into
Notepad days) and became their web designer and BBS manager. THEN he
found something totally different that lit him up and *chose* a
college degree as a way to pursue it and had a blast in college (we
had been married 2 years by the time he started, a decade after high
school where he was told he wasn't college material - ha on them he
graduated with a 3.99 GPA because it was *his choice* and *his*
goal). My former roommate went from high school to working at Dunkin
Donuts and playing with a Commodore 64 in her spare time. When an
opening came up where I was working (trainability and computer
literate were the qualifications for the position as circulation
manager for a niche computer industry newsletter), she got the job.
She went from there to a job with EDS in Dallas and now she works
from her home in NJ still for EDS - not a lick of college anywhere,
just lots of willingness to learn. So, whether college is necessary
in employment really depends on what it is you are shooting for.

The other part to that question, IMO, is social: do people look down
on those without a degree? does a person without a degree miss out
on something *essential* in society? I'd have to say no on both
counts with explanation. Yes, there are always some who will look
down on others for any or no reason. If you don't go to college or
go to a "lesser" college or live in the "wrong" neighborhood or
whatever. And yes there are some things (dorm life, cafeteria
food, "all nighters", etc) that are semi-pervasive in the culture
(movies, music, late night TV jokes) - but then again there are many
people with college degrees who commuted or lived at home or
whatever too, so that's not a be-all, end-all either. Just as the
high school prom and lockers and cafeteria food are not the be-all
end-all of high school.

> Is it getting harder and harder to get accepted into colleges?
I don't think so. On the contrary, due to costs, colleges are
seeking ways to keep enrollment up so their income stays up as more
people choose to go right to work, intern, apprentice, use online
courses and the like, etc. There is also a sharp trend toward
entrepreneurial start-ups and self-employed, work from home
situations where someone finds a niche and fills it - without
necessarily needing a college degree, just the skills and
connections to get up and running. In the last newsletter thing we
got from DH's alma mater (a private 4 yr university), enrollment was
way up - so I don't think it is getting harder to get in, just
harder to afford maybe (DH's alma mater tends to give lots of
assistance - in addition to loans and a campus job, DH got a grant
when I was pregnant because we'd have additional expenses with DS -
the school's own financial aid application is really important
because that's where you can give additional info regarding your
situation).

A search on college enrollment statistics got me lots of hits so
that might help you as well if that sort of data is more telling for
your DH than anecdotal evidences.

Elizabeth Hill

**THEN he
found something totally different that lit him up and *chose* a
college degree as a way to pursue it and had a blast in college (we
had been married 2 years by the time he started, a decade after high
school where he was told he wasn't college material - ha on them he
graduated with a 3.99 GPA because it was *his choice* and *his*
goal).**

Cool story. And clearly his motivation enabled him to learn and retain
more from his courses than he (or any other kid) might have had he
dutifully gone to college at 18 because his parents pushed him.

Sure, a person who just shows up and goes through the motions for 4
years can end up with a diploma, but it is preferable for students to be
engaged in what they are learning. I think they are likely to learn
much, much more. The piece of paper may be important in hiring
decisions, but knowledge (from school or from life or other sources) is
usually what enables us to keep jobs.

(Uh... not that I have a paid job.) (disclaimer)

Betsy