Julie

I wrote an intro recently...4 kids 8 yrs down to 1 yr. and they have
never been to school. I had been using different curr. but decided I
really like the idea of unschooling. I let the girls pick out many,
many books from the library recently to learn what THEY want to
learn. That's going ok although my 8 y.o. dd is asking why she has
to read. Hmm. I told her that's a great way to learn things but she
claims she doesn't like to read; this coming from a child that took
over reading the Magic Tree House series on her own when I ran out of
time to read one aloud. Just this past summer she's been reading
like crazy. Perhaps the science books on the solar system (her huge
interest) she's checked out are too hard for her and she's not
getting out of it what she would like? I figured she'd read what she
could and skip what she couldn't. When my 6 y.o. dd wants me to read
some of her Ancient Egypt books we get them out and read. What is
bugging me, though, is their desire to watch cartoons, staring
blankly at the tv. Perhaps I am the one who needs some deschooling
but I find myself encouraging other activities, i.e. using the
computer. Is that fair? I was thinking about writing down the
channels of, say, the History channel, Discovery channel, Animal
Planet, and encourage those. They watch by far more tv than I do.

Now some days they are playing together really well, getting out the
interactive globe to play, playing a board game, do puzzles or
drawing. They all still like to play with play doh so that is out
once in a while.

I guess I need a good book to give me direction or maybe a way to
deschool myself. Any ideas out there? I love the idea of letting
the child lead their own learning but I'm having to sit on my hands!
There is so much I want them to know!

Julie

Robyn Coburn

<<<<That's going ok although my 8 y.o. dd is asking why she has
to read. Hmm. I told her that's a great way to learn things but she
claims she doesn't like to read;>>>>

The answer from an Unschooling point of view is "you *don't* have to read
anything unless you want to." Stop pushing reading if you want her to come
back to it on her own terms. She evidently knows *how* perfectly well. It
sounds like she wants now to explore other ways of learning and being.

<<<<When my 6 y.o. dd wants me to read
some of her Ancient Egypt books we get them out and read.>>>>

I would urge you not to get into a habit of comparing your children or their
activities, even in your mind. They can sense differences in approval and
disapproval even when it is not voiced.

<<<<< What is bugging me, though, is their desire to watch cartoons,
staring blankly at the tv. Perhaps I am the one who needs some deschooling
but I find myself encouraging other activities, i.e. using the
computer. >>>>>

While ever you keep restricting, disapproving and judging what they are
doing as "blankly staring", they will stay in the "famine reaction" mode
that looks like zoning into the tv. The more you leave it alone, the faster
it will pass. Their eyes may be staring, but their minds are not really
stopping, even if what they are doing is silent consolidation.

Every time you say something that is redirecting, you are lengthening your
and their journey to genuine trusting Unschooling with joy.

<<<<<Is that fair? I was thinking about writing down the
channels of, say, the History channel, Discovery channel, Animal
Planet, and encourage those. They watch by far more tv than I do.>>>>>

This is still dividing life into the educational, and the non-educational
and therefore less worthy.

No-one can be "working" all the time. Mainstream culture promotes an
expectation that kids shouldn't get to relax and zone out, that every thing
they do must be educational (or physically active) some how. It is ironic
that by giving our kids the freedom to appear to be doing nothing, they end
up truly learning all the time. How wonderful that what Unschoolers are
learning is the heart and soul warming, "My parents always trust me to make
my own choices."

<<<<Now some days they are playing together really well, getting out the
interactive globe to play, playing a board game, do puzzles or
drawing. They all still like to play with play doh so that is out
once in a while.>>>

Obviously you are still finding comfort in activities that mimic schoolish
ones, regardless of how connected or disconnected to their interests and
passions these may be. If you are giving lots of approval to the schoolish
appearing games, you may be devaluing their other choices. One result could
be to make the children feel wrong or vaguely guilty about their "trivial"
interests; another could be to create secrets between parent and child.

My advice is to save judgmental or guiding attitudes for places where it is
more important, like how they may treat each other or deal with conflict
between themselves.

<<<<<I guess I need a good book to give me direction or maybe a way to
deschool myself. Any ideas out there? I love the idea of letting
the child lead their own learning but I'm having to sit on my hands! >>>>>

Utilize that energy with following your own learning interests. One of the
best places to read is www.sandradodd.com/unschooling . She has a section on
deschooling, as well as a lovely essay about ways of seeing and staying in
the moment. Another place is Danielle Conger's website and blog:
www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

<<<<There is so much I want them to know!>>>>

Keep your passions! But accept that they are *your* passions. Share your
enjoyment, without expectations. You might get something from exploring the
idea of "detachment" - an emotional state of acceptance of how others are,
without regretting how they are not. It is not taking a rejection of some
offered idea of yours, as a personal rejection of you.

If we are doing this partly to give our children the best chance they have
of being assertive, courageous, self-aware and thoughtful people, sometimes
they are going to disagree with our notions of what is important or
interesting. Mindfully accepting that their interests are equally compelling
*to them* becomes translated as deeply accepting Who They Are -
unconditional love expressed in action.

Robyn L. Coburn








"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com

Yahoo! Groups Links







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TreeGoddess

On Dec 1, 2004, at 11:11 PM, Julie wrote:

> [Perhaps I am the one who needs some deschooling
> but I find myself encouraging other activities, i.e. using
> the computer. ]

Hi, Julie!

Sandra Dodd's web site was already posted by Robyn, but I encourage you
to go to three specific pages of her web site first and then read,
read, read the rest of her site. :)

Deschooling for Parents
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling

Certificate of Empowerment
http://sandradodd.com/empowerment

Value and Uses of TV and Video for Unschoolers
http://sandradodd.com/tv

Relax, pretend it's 'summer vacation' (even if it's snowing outside ;')
and just have some fun. Allow your children to deschool from
school-at-home, too. Start saying "yes" more and just BE with them.
Have you sat down to watch some 'toons with your children? There are
some on Cartoon Network that I just love (and didn't expect to!) --
Power Puff Girls, Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy, and Foster's Home
for Imaginary Friends -- they crack me up!

-Tracy-

"Every moment spent in unhappiness is a moment of
happiness lost." -- Leo Buscaglia

Julie

Wow! Thank you so much for this post. I've been doing it wrong all
along! You've really opened my eyes and I guess I need to relax, huh.

I've read some of Sandra Dodd's site but I need to go back there.

There is one thing I'm confused about. Is it NOT an unschooling idea
to let them follow their interests, like with my 8 y.o.? She loves
anything about planets and the solar system. We've put glow-in-the-
dark constellations on her ceiling, hung the planets on the ceiling
and I thought her wanting to pick out books at the library was the
right thing to do. Same for my 6 y.o. I've read some about Ancient
Egypt to my now 8 y.o. and the 6 y.o. wanted to hear more about
this. I don't want to say No. And what did you mean about this and
comparing the kids or their activities? I just want to get this all
figured out!

Thank you again! I've got my work cut out for me to change my whole
way of thinking :-) And I really appreciate all the ideas you all
have given me.

Julie


--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> <<<<That's going ok although my 8 y.o. dd is asking why she has
> to read. Hmm. I told her that's a great way to learn things but
she
> claims she doesn't like to read;>>>>
>
> The answer from an Unschooling point of view is "you *don't* have
to read
> anything unless you want to." Stop pushing reading if you want her
to come
> back to it on her own terms. She evidently knows *how* perfectly
well. It
> sounds like she wants now to explore other ways of learning and
being.
>
> <<<<When my 6 y.o. dd wants me to read
> some of her Ancient Egypt books we get them out and read.>>>>
>
> I would urge you not to get into a habit of comparing your children
or their
> activities, even in your mind. They can sense differences in
approval and
> disapproval even when it is not voiced.
>
> <<<<< What is bugging me, though, is their desire to watch
cartoons,
> staring blankly at the tv. Perhaps I am the one who needs some
deschooling
> but I find myself encouraging other activities, i.e. using the
> computer. >>>>>
>
> While ever you keep restricting, disapproving and judging what they
are
> doing as "blankly staring", they will stay in the "famine reaction"
mode
> that looks like zoning into the tv. The more you leave it alone,
the faster
> it will pass. Their eyes may be staring, but their minds are not
really
> stopping, even if what they are doing is silent consolidation.
>
> Every time you say something that is redirecting, you are
lengthening your
> and their journey to genuine trusting Unschooling with joy.
>
> <<<<<Is that fair? I was thinking about writing down the
> channels of, say, the History channel, Discovery channel, Animal
> Planet, and encourage those. They watch by far more tv than I
do.>>>>>
>
> This is still dividing life into the educational, and the non-
educational
> and therefore less worthy.
>
> No-one can be "working" all the time. Mainstream culture promotes an
> expectation that kids shouldn't get to relax and zone out, that
every thing
> they do must be educational (or physically active) some how. It is
ironic
> that by giving our kids the freedom to appear to be doing nothing,
they end
> up truly learning all the time. How wonderful that what Unschoolers
are
> learning is the heart and soul warming, "My parents always trust me
to make
> my own choices."
>
> <<<<Now some days they are playing together really well, getting
out the
> interactive globe to play, playing a board game, do puzzles or
> drawing. They all still like to play with play doh so that is out
> once in a while.>>>
>
> Obviously you are still finding comfort in activities that mimic
schoolish
> ones, regardless of how connected or disconnected to their
interests and
> passions these may be. If you are giving lots of approval to the
schoolish
> appearing games, you may be devaluing their other choices. One
result could
> be to make the children feel wrong or vaguely guilty about
their "trivial"
> interests; another could be to create secrets between parent and
child.
>
> My advice is to save judgmental or guiding attitudes for places
where it is
> more important, like how they may treat each other or deal with
conflict
> between themselves.
>
> <<<<<I guess I need a good book to give me direction or maybe a way
to
> deschool myself. Any ideas out there? I love the idea of letting
> the child lead their own learning but I'm having to sit on my
hands! >>>>>
>
> Utilize that energy with following your own learning interests. One
of the
> best places to read is www.sandradodd.com/unschooling . She has a
section on
> deschooling, as well as a lovely essay about ways of seeing and
staying in
> the moment. Another place is Danielle Conger's website and blog:
> www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
>
> <<<<There is so much I want them to know!>>>>
>
> Keep your passions! But accept that they are *your* passions. Share
your
> enjoyment, without expectations. You might get something from
exploring the
> idea of "detachment" - an emotional state of acceptance of how
others are,
> without regretting how they are not. It is not taking a rejection
of some
> offered idea of yours, as a personal rejection of you.
>
> If we are doing this partly to give our children the best chance
they have
> of being assertive, courageous, self-aware and thoughtful people,
sometimes
> they are going to disagree with our notions of what is important or
> interesting. Mindfully accepting that their interests are equally
compelling
> *to them* becomes translated as deeply accepting Who They Are -
> unconditional love expressed in action.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this
group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 11/26/2004
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 11/26/2004

Julie

I'll go read those pages. Thanks.

> Relax, pretend it's 'summer vacation' (even if it's snowing
outside ;')
> and just have some fun.

I LIKE that idea! Will do!

> Have you sat down to watch some 'toons with your children?
Well, my kids are huge fans of PPG and although I'm not totally IN to
cartoons, I will try and watch some of those with them. Maybe I can
appreciate it more if I take the time to watch it too.

Thanks!

Julie

--- In [email protected], TreeGoddess
<treegoddess@c...> wrote:
>
> On Dec 1, 2004, at 11:11 PM, Julie wrote:
>
> > [Perhaps I am the one who needs some deschooling
> > but I find myself encouraging other activities, i.e. using
> > the computer. ]
>
> Hi, Julie!
>
> Sandra Dodd's web site was already posted by Robyn, but I encourage
you
> to go to three specific pages of her web site first and then read,
> read, read the rest of her site. :)
>
> Deschooling for Parents
> http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
>
> Certificate of Empowerment
> http://sandradodd.com/empowerment
>
> Value and Uses of TV and Video for Unschoolers
> http://sandradodd.com/tv
>
> Relax, pretend it's 'summer vacation' (even if it's snowing
outside ;')
> and just have some fun. Allow your children to deschool from
> school-at-home, too. Start saying "yes" more and just BE with
them.
> Have you sat down to watch some 'toons with your children? There
are
> some on Cartoon Network that I just love (and didn't expect to!) --
> Power Puff Girls, Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy, and Foster's
Home
> for Imaginary Friends -- they crack me up!
>
> -Tracy-
>
> "Every moment spent in unhappiness is a moment of
> happiness lost." -- Leo Buscaglia

Elizabeth Hill

** There is one thing I'm confused about. Is it NOT an unschooling idea
to let them follow their interests, like with my 8 y.o.? She loves
anything about planets and the solar system. We've put glow-in-the-
dark constellations on her ceiling, hung the planets on the ceiling
and I thought her wanting to pick out books at the library was the
right thing to do. **

Hi, Julie --

I think maybe what you first posted about library book selection was
ambiguous and may have been misunderstood. Without going back and
getting the exact quote, I got the impression that you tell them to get
books on the topics that they want to learn about. That makes it
unclear what would happen if a kid wasn't interested in learning that
week and just wanted to check out mentally undemanding books or
magazines, or if they didn't want to check out anything. (And I suppose
a kid who checked out Teen People would learn about Hillary Duff's love
live, and a kid checking out Nintendo Power would learn about cheat
codes and new releases. I was going to use these as examples of "wasn't
interested in learning", but I realized learning would still occur.
Just not learning that fits into a standard curriculum.)

I have a homeschooling friend who limits her kids to two fiction books
at the library, and insists that they also check out two nonfiction
books. This kind of quota system is unlikely to be practiced by someone
who is really into unschooling. This isn't necessarily what you intend
to do, but it is one of the things that popped into my mind as I was
reading.

Best wishes,
Betsy

PS Some styles of learning will find a TV program about spiders or
Egypt more intriguing than a book. I accept this, even though it
puzzles me. I love the beautiful illustrations in Ancient History
books, and I keep buying them even though my son is uninterested.

Robyn Coburn

<<<<<Have you sat down to watch some 'toons with your children? There are
some on Cartoon Network that I just love (and didn't expect to!) --
Power Puff Girls, Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy, and Foster's Home
for Imaginary Friends -- they crack me up!>>>>

I was equally astonished to find that I love Kim Possible and, of all
things, Recess, both on Disney. I like those other shows too, but Jayn
doesn't seem to dig the animation style much. Our hands down favorite,
("When is it Saturday, Mom?") is Winx Club on Fox. (Fox Box Saturday am) We
have all the dolls too. Finally a little voices doll game that I actually
enjoy playing with Jayn!

Jayn gets a lot out of the filler segments on the Disney Channel (not Toon
Disney) which are along the lines of public service announcements. Kids
following their passions, Kids express themselves, and Kids and their pets.
She has become very interested in one little girl (somewhere between 9 and
11 yo I'd guess) who volunteers at a wild animal rescue place with many
exotic creatures.

There are no ordinary product commercials on the Disney Channel so they fill
the gaps and ad spaces with music videos, promotions for other programming
or Disney specific movies and attractions, and these public service
announcements. We got very excited during one of the stars' "stay in school"
type of segments to hear that the best friend from "Phil of the Future" is
home schooled. Jayn hollers "there's the home schooled girl" every time she
sees her.

Robyn L. Coburn


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Robyn Coburn

<<<<There is one thing I'm confused about. Is it NOT an unschooling idea
to let them follow their interests, like with my 8 y.o.? She loves
anything about planets and the solar system. We've put glow-in-the-
dark constellations on her ceiling, hung the planets on the ceiling
and I thought her wanting to pick out books at the library was the
right thing to do.>>>>>>

It is totally one of the foundations of unschooling that *they* follow their
interests, and we facilitate them. You did your job by taking them to the
library and helping her carry any books she chose to the car, and putting
the stars up. Now it is up to her to look at the stars on the ceiling and
the night sky when she wants to, and up to her to choose to read the books
or not. Other ways to continue to facilitate that particular interest is to
*casually* give her a brochure to the local planetarium, mention a website
that you come across, keep an eye out for new items about imminent meteor
showers or eclipses. It is still *her* interest.

Nor should she be defined in terms of one overweening passion all the time.
Sometimes it is tough to look at the totality of a person, if they are seen
as the one who is interested in ...... We try not to set up a situation
where the parent is crushed if/when the child moves on to some other
interest, or that the child feels guilty at abandoning some project or
concern that has become irrelevant to them. Continuing with an interest just
to keep Mom happy is not Unschooling with joy. (Not saying this is happening
at your house, Julie - just offering a general caution).

Many people, when first coming to Unschooling, go overboard and sort of
"take over" the organization and pace of exploring an interest - with the
best of intentions - and end up trying to make it more like a unit study.
Children who have fully decompressed from schoolishness, or have been long
time Unschoolers, have been known to tell their mother to "Chill, Mom". It
has made for some funny stories on the list when Mom realizes what she has
done.

However, the unfunny consequence can be that the kids become wary of
mentioning a new fascination in case it turns into another major undertaking
with undesired cross country field trips. (Don't take this to mean that I
don't approve of cross country field trips when they are wanted and endorsed
by everyone concerned!) It is kind of like the Mom hi-jacks the kid's
interest, in desperation to force Unschooling into looking like the
schoolish mode of the dominant ideology.


<<<<< Same for my 6 y.o. I've read some about Ancient
Egypt to my now 8 y.o. and the 6 y.o. wanted to hear more about
this. I don't want to say No. And what did you mean about this and
comparing the kids or their activities?>>>>>

Paraphrasing your first post, I was responding to the idea that you were
disappointed that your 8yo didn't want to read (sadness and confusion), when
your 6yo did ask you to read to her often (yippee!). It was never to suggest
that you should not read to anyone who asks you to. Ancient Egypt and
Astronomy are certainly equally worthy interests!

Do you see what I mean by the tacit approval for the *way* your younger
child was choosing to learn, versus your sorrow at the current rejection of
a skill you value in the elder? If the underlying attitude is informing any
of your interactions, it doesn't have to be as blatant as actually saying,
"See, your little sister wants to read, why don't you" to be felt as
criticism and disapproval.

<<<<Thank you again! I've got my work cut out for me to change my whole
way of thinking :-) And I really appreciate all the ideas you all
have given me.>>>>

Glad to have you here. Keep going with this open questioning attitude; it is
wonderful to have opportunities to answer questions - they help me with my
journey.

Robyn L. Coburn

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Julie

Betsy,
Yes, I let them pick out books they are interested in and any other
books they wish. I will read aloud if the 8 y.o. wants me to but
lately she has been reading alot to herself. I always read aloud to
the 6 y.o. We never come out of the library empty-handed :-)
Does that clear things up?

Julie


--- In [email protected], Elizabeth Hill
<ecsamhill@e...> wrote:
>
> ** There is one thing I'm confused about. Is it NOT an unschooling
idea
> to let them follow their interests, like with my 8 y.o.? She loves
> anything about planets and the solar system. We've put glow-in-the-
> dark constellations on her ceiling, hung the planets on the ceiling
> and I thought her wanting to pick out books at the library was the
> right thing to do. **
>
> Hi, Julie --
>
> I think maybe what you first posted about library book selection
was
> ambiguous and may have been misunderstood. Without going back and
> getting the exact quote, I got the impression that you tell them to
get
> books on the topics that they want to learn about. That makes it
> unclear what would happen if a kid wasn't interested in learning
that
> week and just wanted to check out mentally undemanding books or
> magazines, or if they didn't want to check out anything. (And I
suppose
> a kid who checked out Teen People would learn about Hillary Duff's
love
> live, and a kid checking out Nintendo Power would learn about cheat
> codes and new releases. I was going to use these as examples
of "wasn't
> interested in learning", but I realized learning would still
occur.
> Just not learning that fits into a standard curriculum.)
>
> I have a homeschooling friend who limits her kids to two fiction
books
> at the library, and insists that they also check out two nonfiction
> books. This kind of quota system is unlikely to be practiced by
someone
> who is really into unschooling. This isn't necessarily what you
intend
> to do, but it is one of the things that popped into my mind as I
was
> reading.
>
> Best wishes,
> Betsy
>
> PS Some styles of learning will find a TV program about spiders or
> Egypt more intriguing than a book. I accept this, even though it
> puzzles me. I love the beautiful illustrations in Ancient History
> books, and I keep buying them even though my son is uninterested.

Julie

Our hands down favorite,
> ("When is it Saturday, Mom?") is Winx Club on Fox. (Fox Box
Saturday am) We
> have all the dolls too. Finally a little voices doll game that I
actually
> enjoy playing with Jayn!

Robyn,
I've never heard of that and I'm very intrigued! I'll have to see
when it's on over here.
I think we get Disney too so I'll see into that as well. Thank you!

Julie


--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> <<<<<Have you sat down to watch some 'toons with your children?
There are
> some on Cartoon Network that I just love (and didn't expect to!) --
> Power Puff Girls, Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy, and Foster's
Home
> for Imaginary Friends -- they crack me up!>>>>
>
> I was equally astonished to find that I love Kim Possible and, of
all
> things, Recess, both on Disney. I like those other shows too, but
Jayn
> doesn't seem to dig the animation style much. Our hands down
favorite,
> ("When is it Saturday, Mom?") is Winx Club on Fox. (Fox Box
Saturday am) We
> have all the dolls too. Finally a little voices doll game that I
actually
> enjoy playing with Jayn!
>
> Jayn gets a lot out of the filler segments on the Disney Channel
(not Toon
> Disney) which are along the lines of public service announcements.
Kids
> following their passions, Kids express themselves, and Kids and
their pets.
> She has become very interested in one little girl (somewhere
between 9 and
> 11 yo I'd guess) who volunteers at a wild animal rescue place with
many
> exotic creatures.
>
> There are no ordinary product commercials on the Disney Channel so
they fill
> the gaps and ad spaces with music videos, promotions for other
programming
> or Disney specific movies and attractions, and these public service
> announcements. We got very excited during one of the stars' "stay
in school"
> type of segments to hear that the best friend from "Phil of the
Future" is
> home schooled. Jayn hollers "there's the home schooled girl" every
time she
> sees her.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 11/26/2004

Julie

Robyn,
I see what you're saying now. I think my 8 y.o. has had enough of
the solar system for now, that's my impression. And I don't make her
read it either. She reads what she wants, when she wants. She
recently finished the Magic Tree House series (in order, of course!)
and is finishing up the Junie B. Jones series.
Just to let you know, my girls are in scouts and Badge Presentation
is next week. I asked if they'd like to work on some badges this
coming week and they were all excited about that. Looks like we're
on to something new!

I don't think I'm going over-board following their interests. Katie
says she's had enough of solar system for now. That happens to be an
interest of mine also but if she's had enough, we're done! :-)

Thanks again, Robyn!

Julie

queenjane555

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> I was equally astonished to find that I love Kim Possible and, of
>all things, Recess, both on Disney.

Seamus has started to watch alot of Disney Channel this year, i
never thought either of us would be so into it. I must admit that i
am a huge fan of "That's So Raven!", its hilarious, and i think the
kid actors do a really good job. I expected something different from
Disney Channel, like a Barney show for older kids, but i've found i
really enjoy it alot.

Seamus' dad came into town a couple weeks ago, and seamus was
watching a Disney Channel movie (something about two girls who go to
a school specifically to be volleyball players??)I was in the dining
room playing on the computer, and listened to his father just
totally put down this movie. Lots of little sarcastic remarks...i
think he thought he was being witty or something. I finally spoke up
about it and told him to knock it off. But he thought nothing of
totally disrespecting a show seamus chose to watch. Earlier in the
day we were at the grocery store, and seamus was excited to see they
finally had his favorite Little Debbie snack cakes in, we hardly
ever find them (raspberry filled angel food cakes), he grabbed two
boxes and a box of brownies. His dad, without thinking,
automatically told him two was enough and to put one back. I told
seamus i thought stocking up was a great idea and to get as much as
he wanted.

Since i dont have to deal with another parent much of the time, i
was a little shocked to see our different parenting styles manifest
themselves like this. I didnt like it at all, and really feel for
those parents who live with someone who isnt quite "there" yet. I
would never have said seamus' dad treated him "disrespectfully"
until i saw all the little ways that disrespect show up that people
take for granted in our society. I dont think it even occured to him
it was ok to say "yes" to three boxes. And from my perspective, i
woudnt dream of saying "no" unless i was really strapped for cash
that day or something.

I'm not sure what my point is other than to say that feeling
positive about that which your kid likes or enjoys can create a
whole groovy positive atmosphere on its own, and i think thats very
important to creating a happy unschooling atmosphere.


Katherine

Julie

Katherine!
I almost forgot you sent me to this group! You posted it on our
Wayne Co. group. Thank you! Seamus isn't a name you hear all the
time so I just knew it was you.
I'm bummed because my girls say we don't get the Disney channel.
Darn. I wonder how much it is to the next price jump to get it?

Julie
Mom to Katie (8), Stephanie (6), Max (3), and Zachary (1)


--- In [email protected], "queenjane555"
<queenjane555@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
> <dezigna@c...> wrote:
> > I was equally astonished to find that I love Kim Possible and, of
> >all things, Recess, both on Disney.
>
> Seamus has started to watch alot of Disney Channel this year, i
> never thought either of us would be so into it. I must admit that i
> am a huge fan of "That's So Raven!", its hilarious, and i think the
> kid actors do a really good job. I expected something different
from
> Disney Channel, like a Barney show for older kids, but i've found i
> really enjoy it alot.
>
> Seamus' dad came into town a couple weeks ago, and seamus was
> watching a Disney Channel movie (something about two girls who go
to
> a school specifically to be volleyball players??)I was in the
dining
> room playing on the computer, and listened to his father just
> totally put down this movie. Lots of little sarcastic remarks...i
> think he thought he was being witty or something. I finally spoke
up
> about it and told him to knock it off. But he thought nothing of
> totally disrespecting a show seamus chose to watch. Earlier in the
> day we were at the grocery store, and seamus was excited to see
they
> finally had his favorite Little Debbie snack cakes in, we hardly
> ever find them (raspberry filled angel food cakes), he grabbed two
> boxes and a box of brownies. His dad, without thinking,
> automatically told him two was enough and to put one back. I told
> seamus i thought stocking up was a great idea and to get as much as
> he wanted.
>
> Since i dont have to deal with another parent much of the time, i
> was a little shocked to see our different parenting styles manifest
> themselves like this. I didnt like it at all, and really feel for
> those parents who live with someone who isnt quite "there" yet. I
> would never have said seamus' dad treated him "disrespectfully"
> until i saw all the little ways that disrespect show up that people
> take for granted in our society. I dont think it even occured to
him
> it was ok to say "yes" to three boxes. And from my perspective, i
> woudnt dream of saying "no" unless i was really strapped for cash
> that day or something.
>
> I'm not sure what my point is other than to say that feeling
> positive about that which your kid likes or enjoys can create a
> whole groovy positive atmosphere on its own, and i think thats very
> important to creating a happy unschooling atmosphere.
>
>
> Katherine

mamaaj2000

Dh does that reflexively sometimes and then when I question him on
why is 3 too many, I'm the bad guy for "giving them everything they
want" and spoiling them. Sigh. I can see why it seems like that to
him: he says no, they whine, I say why not and they get what they
want. But with me, they don't (ususally, I ain't perfect) have to
whine!

He's come a looong way this year, so I know there's hope, but it's
frustrating in the moment(s).

--aj

--- In [email protected], "queenjane555"
<queenjane555@y...> wrote:
> Since i dont have to deal with another parent much of the time, i
> was a little shocked to see our different parenting styles manifest
> themselves like this. I didnt like it at all, and really feel for
> those parents who live with someone who isnt quite "there" yet. I
> would never have said seamus' dad treated him "disrespectfully"
> until i saw all the little ways that disrespect show up that people
> take for granted in our society. I dont think it even occured to
him
> it was ok to say "yes" to three boxes. And from my perspective, i
> woudnt dream of saying "no" unless i was really strapped for cash
> that day or something.
>
> I'm not sure what my point is other than to say that feeling
> positive about that which your kid likes or enjoys can create a
> whole groovy positive atmosphere on its own, and i think thats very
> important to creating a happy unschooling atmosphere.
>
>
> Katherine

myfunny4

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> it is wonderful to have opportunities to answer questions - they
help me with my
> journey.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>

Of all the many wonderful comments that have been written on this
thread, this comment resonated with me. I wonder if many parents
see unschooling as a personal journey? I do. I suppose because
unschooling demands that we not bend to societal expectations; it
means learning to trust ourselves in trusting our children; it means
learning to not separate life into compartments, i.e., reading about
the indigenous life of the Galapagos Islands is "educational" but
watching "Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy" is not "educational."
And when you stop looking at life that way, life looks different.

Debbie

Vesna

Julie,

--- In [email protected], "Julie" <julesRN@c...>
wrote:

> I guess I need a good book to give me direction or maybe a way to
> deschool myself. Any ideas out there? I love the idea of letting
> the child lead their own learning but I'm having to sit on my hands!
> There is so much I want them to know!

I think that in keeping with the unschooling philosophy, it is
inspiration rather than direction that you'll get from a good book. :)

I recommend "Homeschooling Our Children, Unschooling Ourselves," by
Alison McKee. That's where I first encountered the term unschooling,
and the name John Holt. I found it wonderful and exciting and learned
that "homeschool" can be what we're already doing with our eight-month
old son (now nine-month old -- a life of learning and exploration and
adventure. And the way mt husband & I live our lives already.
Thatnever, ever has to change. It's so liberating!

Here it is on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0965780627/qid=1102208169/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-0590892-6536821?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Vesna

mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], "myfunny4"
I wonder if many parents
> see unschooling as a personal journey?

I've been noticing that it's making me more honest with myself. It
took a while for me to let go of bedtime controls for ds for a number
of reasons, but when I really really thought openly and honestly
about it, I saw that one of my reasons was no longer relevant and one
wasn't yet a problem. Yes, in a couple months, when I'm really pg, it
will get hard to carry a 4 yr old up the stairs, but I can do it now.
(And when it's a problem, he'll probably be more willing to consider
going upstairs before going to sleep because I've been respecting his
desires.)

I think a lot of "reasons" people have for controling their kids
don't stand up to the light very well and it ends up being "because I
said so" more than any real problem.

--aj