Debra Caruso

I disagree that anytime you physically touch someone without their
permission that this is abuse.There are many kinds of touch,Some good
,some bad.What about little kids who out of anger push or slap at their
siblings,etc..I am not saying this is right,but this is not abuse.
I am a survivor of abuse,I know what its like to have a parent
discipline out of his own issues,and sickness.I also know that I have
raised 4 sons,and when they were younger,did spank them occasionally for
major infractions.I don't believe a child should be spanked for every
little thing.I see a lot of teens today whose parents raised them with
no discipline,and just used the psychobabble approach,and they could
have used a good swat in my opinion when they were younger.Of course as
my sons got older a spanking was no longer necessary.Again,everyone is
going to have different opinions on this topic.However no one is going
to convince me that a spanking from time to time is going to be
considered abuse....Deb


Dia Garland wrote:
>
> > I disagree with you. Anytime you physically touch someone without their
> > permission, it could be constituted as abuse. Isn't that what we teach
> our
> > children when they are playing with their friends?<<
>
> I am not just one of my children's friends, I am their mother and it is my
> job to train them and teach them. I do not need the permission of my
> children to administer correction. Do you seriously ask permission from
> your children before you correct them?
>
> And no, I do not think anytime someone touches another without permission it
> is abuse. I have been bumped into, had my feet stepped on, and hugged
> without my permission, and would in no way consider those abuse. People
> accidentally bump into, step on, and even knock others over on a regular
> basis. It doesn't mean they are abusers. Lighten up!
>
> Dia
>
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Bonnie Painter

No, I don't ask my children's permission to correct them. I also don't
correct them using physical means. Accidental contact is one thing and that
is not what I was talking about. Spanking is intentionally hurting someone
in a way that is not acceptable. I'm sorry, I can't give in on this one.
You are humiliating your child any time you lay a hand on them. Trust me,
I've been one of those children.


>From: "Dia Garland" <moocow@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] abuse
>Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:53:11 -0500
>
>
>
> > I disagree with you. Anytime you physically touch someone without their
> > permission, it could be constituted as abuse. Isn't that what we teach
>our
> > children when they are playing with their friends?<<
>
>I am not just one of my children's friends, I am their mother and it is my
>job to train them and teach them. I do not need the permission of my
>children to administer correction. Do you seriously ask permission from
>your children before you correct them?
>
>And no, I do not think anytime someone touches another without permission
>it
>is abuse. I have been bumped into, had my feet stepped on, and hugged
>without my permission, and would in no way consider those abuse. People
>accidentally bump into, step on, and even knock others over on a regular
>basis. It doesn't mean they are abusers. Lighten up!
>
>Dia
>
>

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Dia Garland

>>. Anytime you physically touch someone without their
> > > permission, it could be constituted as abuse<<

>>. Accidental contact is one thing and that
> is not what I was talking about.<<

These are two different statements. The first is what I was replying to.
You said "anytime". On another list I probably would have realized that the
writer was exaggerating somewhat, here I just don't know. It's like jumping
into a group of pirahnas. I am very glad that you don't scream "abuse" if
someone bumps you in line.

Spanking is intentionally hurting someone
> in a way that is not acceptable. <<

It may not be acceptable in your opinion, that does not mean that it is not
acceptable to everyone. Your opinion is not the only one in existence.

> You are humiliating your child any time you lay a hand on them. Trust me,
> I've been one of those children.<<

I am not humiliating my child, I am correcting my child. I was beaten as a
child, and I know full well the difference between beating and spanking.
No, I don't trust you. Not even a little bit.

Brynn

Ok, yet another one here that was going to stay out of this one, but can't
help myself. I am not here to agree or disagree with anyone.

I am here to say that even though I have been quite tolerant and patient of
these emails filling my inbox these last few days, it's a bit tiring seeing
some really judgmental and quite rude statements. Everybody does things
differently, and what works for some doesn't work for all. I can understand
soapboxes, and how people feel very passionately about certain things. But
all of the rudeness has gotten to the point that it's embarrassing to think
that anyone would visit this list to subscribe and see so much harshness and
downright meanness. It's one thing to make room for other's views and also
to disagree with them. It's another to be so intolerant and rude. I'm weary
of all of this, and yes Dia, I have given you some attention that you seem
to be needy of by directing this email toward you, as it's mainly your
defensive, aggressive, condescension that I am addressing.

Now, I'm sure this email won't make a bit of difference to some, but there
are so many other topics that we can introduce rather then allowing some of
this rudeness to continue.

Dia, could you possibly reply to someone's email without dissecting it and
flaming them? (and if you want to copy and paste this into an email with
excerpts from other emails that you have replied to without flaming someone,
feel free).

Much love to all,

Brynn




-----Original Message-----
From: Dia Garland [mailto:moocow@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 8:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] abuse


>>. Anytime you physically touch someone without their
> > > permission, it could be constituted as abuse<<

>>. Accidental contact is one thing and that
> is not what I was talking about.<<

These are two different statements. The first is what I was replying to.
You said "anytime". On another list I probably would have realized that the
writer was exaggerating somewhat, here I just don't know. It's like jumping
into a group of pirahnas. I am very glad that you don't scream "abuse" if
someone bumps you in line.

Spanking is intentionally hurting someone
> in a way that is not acceptable. <<

It may not be acceptable in your opinion, that does not mean that it is not
acceptable to everyone. Your opinion is not the only one in existence.

> You are humiliating your child any time you lay a hand on them. Trust me,
> I've been one of those children.<<

I am not humiliating my child, I am correcting my child. I was beaten as a
child, and I know full well the difference between beating and spanking.
No, I don't trust you. Not even a little bit.



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B & T Simpson

I fully agree here and will be leaving the list, I have been on it for a
long time now and am completely bored with the attacks towards other people
and can truly say, I am sure glad I don't live in the same comunity with
you! and as far as the statements from God, I do believe you missed a major
one that would clearly apply Do not judge!!!!!
I have had to delete hundreds of emails from my box just today alone from
this group and frankly I don't have the time to be wasted reading all of
your judgmental crap!!
Tanya ( who would have been thrilled to get that many posts responding to a
question I had about my baby lying sideways! I got about 3 or 4 .

> Ok, yet another one here that was going to stay out of this one, but can't
> help myself. I am not here to agree or disagree with anyone.
>
> I am here to say that even though I have been quite tolerant and patient
of
> these emails filling my inbox these last few days, it's a bit tiring
seeing
> some really judgmental and quite rude statements. Everybody does things
> differently, and what works for some doesn't work for all. I can
understand
> soapboxes, and how people feel very passionately about certain things. But
> all of the rudeness has gotten to the point that it's embarrassing to
think
> that anyone would visit this list to subscribe and see so much harshness
and
> downright meanness. It's one thing to make room for other's views and also
> to disagree with them. It's another to be so intolerant and rude. I'm
weary
> of all of this, and yes Dia, I have given you some attention that you seem
> to be needy of by directing this email toward you, as it's mainly your
> defensive, aggressive, condescension that I am addressing.
>
> Now, I'm sure this email won't make a bit of difference to some, but there
> are so many other topics that we can introduce rather then allowing some
of
> this rudeness to continue.
>
> Dia, could you possibly reply to someone's email without dissecting it and
> flaming them? (and if you want to copy and paste this into an email with
> excerpts from other emails that you have replied to without flaming
someone,
> feel free).
>
> Much love to all,
>
> Brynn
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dia Garland [mailto:moocow@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 8:19 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] abuse
>
>
> >>. Anytime you physically touch someone without their
> > > > permission, it could be constituted as abuse<<
>
> >>. Accidental contact is one thing and that
> > is not what I was talking about.<<
>
> These are two different statements. The first is what I was replying to.
> You said "anytime". On another list I probably would have realized that
the
> writer was exaggerating somewhat, here I just don't know. It's like
jumping
> into a group of pirahnas. I am very glad that you don't scream "abuse" if
> someone bumps you in line.
>
> Spanking is intentionally hurting someone
> > in a way that is not acceptable. <<
>
> It may not be acceptable in your opinion, that does not mean that it is
not
> acceptable to everyone. Your opinion is not the only one in existence.
>
> > You are humiliating your child any time you lay a hand on them. Trust
me,
> > I've been one of those children.<<
>
> I am not humiliating my child, I am correcting my child. I was beaten as
a
> child, and I know full well the difference between beating and spanking.
> No, I don't trust you. Not even a little bit.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free, Unlimited Calls Anywhere!
> Conference in the whole family on the same call.
> Let the fights begin! Visit Firetalk.com - Click below.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5476/14/_/448294/_/962248664/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Find Out Today!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/6084/14/_/448294/_/962253339/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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>
> To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
>
>
>

Amy

Tanya ( who would have been thrilled to get that many posts responding to a
> question I had about my baby lying sideways! I got about 3 or 4 .

This is not a fair attack! Out of the people on this list how many of them
do you think have had expeience with this kind of situations? I know lots of
people that have had babies and none of them were lying sideways! You can't
expect even half the people on this list to know what to do in this
situation.


----- Original Message -----
From: B & T Simpson <michigan@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] abuse -Dia


> I fully agree here and will be leaving the list, I have been on it for a
> long time now and am completely bored with the attacks towards other
people
> and can truly say, I am sure glad I don't live in the same comunity with
> you! and as far as the statements from God, I do believe you missed a
major
> one that would clearly apply Do not judge!!!!!
> I have had to delete hundreds of emails from my box just today alone from
> this group and frankly I don't have the time to be wasted reading all of
> your judgmental crap!!
> >
> > Ok, yet another one here that was going to stay out of this one, but
can't
> > help myself. I am not here to agree or disagree with anyone.
> >
> > I am here to say that even though I have been quite tolerant and patient
> of
> > these emails filling my inbox these last few days, it's a bit tiring
> seeing
> > some really judgmental and quite rude statements. Everybody does things
> > differently, and what works for some doesn't work for all. I can
> understand
> > soapboxes, and how people feel very passionately about certain things.
But
> > all of the rudeness has gotten to the point that it's embarrassing to
> think
> > that anyone would visit this list to subscribe and see so much harshness
> and
> > downright meanness. It's one thing to make room for other's views and
also
> > to disagree with them. It's another to be so intolerant and rude. I'm
> weary
> > of all of this, and yes Dia, I have given you some attention that you
seem
> > to be needy of by directing this email toward you, as it's mainly your
> > defensive, aggressive, condescension that I am addressing.
> >
> > Now, I'm sure this email won't make a bit of difference to some, but
there
> > are so many other topics that we can introduce rather then allowing some
> of
> > this rudeness to continue.
> >
> > Dia, could you possibly reply to someone's email without dissecting it
and
> > flaming them? (and if you want to copy and paste this into an email with
> > excerpts from other emails that you have replied to without flaming
> someone,
> > feel free).
> >
> > Much love to all,
> >
> > Brynn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dia Garland [mailto:moocow@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 8:19 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] abuse
> >
> >
> > >>. Anytime you physically touch someone without their
> > > > > permission, it could be constituted as abuse<<
> >
> > >>. Accidental contact is one thing and that
> > > is not what I was talking about.<<
> >
> > These are two different statements. The first is what I was replying
to.
> > You said "anytime". On another list I probably would have realized that
> the
> > writer was exaggerating somewhat, here I just don't know. It's like
> jumping
> > into a group of pirahnas. I am very glad that you don't scream "abuse"
if
> > someone bumps you in line.
> >
> > Spanking is intentionally hurting someone
> > > in a way that is not acceptable. <<
> >
> > It may not be acceptable in your opinion, that does not mean that it is
> not
> > acceptable to everyone. Your opinion is not the only one in existence.
> >
> > > You are humiliating your child any time you lay a hand on them. Trust
> me,
> > > I've been one of those children.<<
> >
> > I am not humiliating my child, I am correcting my child. I was beaten
as
> a
> > child, and I know full well the difference between beating and spanking.
> > No, I don't trust you. Not even a little bit.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Free, Unlimited Calls Anywhere!
> > Conference in the whole family on the same call.
> > Let the fights begin! Visit Firetalk.com - Click below.
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/5476/14/_/448294/_/962248664/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Think You're A Geek?
> > Find Out Today!
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/6084/14/_/448294/_/962253339/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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>

Bonnie Painter

I apologize. I don't know how this got posted again, but I did not send
it...


>From: "Bonnie Painter" <bonniepainter@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] abuse
>Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:10:52 PDT
>
>No, I don't ask my children's permission to correct them. I also don't
>correct them using physical means. Accidental contact is one thing and
>that
>is not what I was talking about. Spanking is intentionally hurting someone
>in a way that is not acceptable. I'm sorry, I can't give in on this one.
>You are humiliating your child any time you lay a hand on them. Trust me,
>I've been one of those children.
>
>
> >From: "Dia Garland" <moocow@...>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] abuse
> >Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:53:11 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> > > I disagree with you. Anytime you physically touch someone without
>their
> > > permission, it could be constituted as abuse. Isn't that what we
>teach
> >our
> > > children when they are playing with their friends?<<
> >
> >I am not just one of my children's friends, I am their mother and it is
>my
> >job to train them and teach them. I do not need the permission of my
> >children to administer correction. Do you seriously ask permission from
> >your children before you correct them?
> >
> >And no, I do not think anytime someone touches another without permission
> >it
> >is abuse. I have been bumped into, had my feet stepped on, and hugged
> >without my permission, and would in no way consider those abuse. People
> >accidentally bump into, step on, and even knock others over on a regular
> >basis. It doesn't mean they are abusers. Lighten up!
> >
> >Dia
> >
> >
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>

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