Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Christian and Unschooling
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/11/2004 9:05:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
I reckon you're part of a very small subset of homeschoolers
(Christian Unschoolers, I mean). Do you find you get much flack from
your faith community?<<<<<
What I have found, as a Christian and an unschooler, is different. I have
received little flack from other Christians in my community. I am a
transplant here and do not belong to any church, I prefer to read and explore my
spirituality on my own by reading and talking with lots of people etc.
I did join a Christian unschooling list. I was on it for a while and we all
did have some different ideas about what unschooling meant to each of us.
NO problem I get that in a lot of places. And we do have some of the same
ideas, some people more than others on the list. But when the subject turned to
parenting specifically, there seemed to be more division than I am used to.
It turned to the topic of spanking and I tried hard not to respond at first
but there were a lot of people who, for religious reasons, do spank their
children. Not all but a lot. I had to leave the list when some told me that I
was not Christian enough, I didn't understand my Bible or spanking, that it
was my duty as the parent to teach my children to submit and obey. I will
never forget those words.
Like I said not all on that list were of that same philosophy but more than
I really wanted to hang around. I just left the list. I said what we do in
our house and why. I tried not to create an uproar on the list. I just know
that what I need in my life is peace and positive energy. That list wasn't
it for me.
It shocked me. I thought that as Unschoolers we all had a respect for
children. I really realized that day that even though I am a Christian and
unschool, I am very different from many other Christians that unschool. I knew
that happened in the general sense of a larger society. I mean I knew that in
society as a whole there was a large segment of the Christian population that
believed that way, I just never expected to see that same sentiment, that
same division amongst Unschoolers.
I could see on that list that the people who were there had found a place
for themselves. Had found somewhere that they could talk and be and find their
own community. It just wasn't a place for me.
Just my thoughts,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
I reckon you're part of a very small subset of homeschoolers
(Christian Unschoolers, I mean). Do you find you get much flack from
your faith community?<<<<<
What I have found, as a Christian and an unschooler, is different. I have
received little flack from other Christians in my community. I am a
transplant here and do not belong to any church, I prefer to read and explore my
spirituality on my own by reading and talking with lots of people etc.
I did join a Christian unschooling list. I was on it for a while and we all
did have some different ideas about what unschooling meant to each of us.
NO problem I get that in a lot of places. And we do have some of the same
ideas, some people more than others on the list. But when the subject turned to
parenting specifically, there seemed to be more division than I am used to.
It turned to the topic of spanking and I tried hard not to respond at first
but there were a lot of people who, for religious reasons, do spank their
children. Not all but a lot. I had to leave the list when some told me that I
was not Christian enough, I didn't understand my Bible or spanking, that it
was my duty as the parent to teach my children to submit and obey. I will
never forget those words.
Like I said not all on that list were of that same philosophy but more than
I really wanted to hang around. I just left the list. I said what we do in
our house and why. I tried not to create an uproar on the list. I just know
that what I need in my life is peace and positive energy. That list wasn't
it for me.
It shocked me. I thought that as Unschoolers we all had a respect for
children. I really realized that day that even though I am a Christian and
unschool, I am very different from many other Christians that unschool. I knew
that happened in the general sense of a larger society. I mean I knew that in
society as a whole there was a large segment of the Christian population that
believed that way, I just never expected to see that same sentiment, that
same division amongst Unschoolers.
I could see on that list that the people who were there had found a place
for themselves. Had found somewhere that they could talk and be and find their
own community. It just wasn't a place for me.
Just my thoughts,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jason & Stephanie
<<<<<<<I did join a Christian unschooling list. I was on it for a while and we all
did have some different ideas about what unschooling meant to each of us.
NO problem I get that in a lot of places. And we do have some of the same
ideas, some people more than others on the list. But when the subject turned to
parenting specifically, there seemed to be more division than I am used to.
It turned to the topic of spanking and I tried hard not to respond at first
but there were a lot of people who, for religious reasons, do spank their
children. Not all but a lot. I had to leave the list when some told me that I
was not Christian enough, I didn't understand my Bible or spanking, that it
was my duty as the parent to teach my children to submit and obey. I will
never forget those words.>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That was hard to snip<g> Pam I was there too briefly and I left when you did. I completely agreed with all of your posts.
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
did have some different ideas about what unschooling meant to each of us.
NO problem I get that in a lot of places. And we do have some of the same
ideas, some people more than others on the list. But when the subject turned to
parenting specifically, there seemed to be more division than I am used to.
It turned to the topic of spanking and I tried hard not to respond at first
but there were a lot of people who, for religious reasons, do spank their
children. Not all but a lot. I had to leave the list when some told me that I
was not Christian enough, I didn't understand my Bible or spanking, that it
was my duty as the parent to teach my children to submit and obey. I will
never forget those words.>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That was hard to snip<g> Pam I was there too briefly and I left when you did. I completely agreed with all of your posts.
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
** It shocked me. I thought that as Unschoolers we all had a respect for
children. I really realized that day that even though I am a Christian
and
unschool, I am very different from many other Christians that unschool.**
Thanks for your post. It's hard for me to understand how those folks
who want unconditionally obedient children could get unschooling to work
in their families. How would the children feel free to pursue their own
passions? Wouldn't they always be glancing over to their parents to
look for approval?
(I guess I can partially get that there is an idea that God will reveal
to each person what their talents and purpose are. But how decisions
about time-usage get made in the type of household that you wrote about
isn't clear to me.)
Betsy
children. I really realized that day that even though I am a Christian
and
unschool, I am very different from many other Christians that unschool.**
Thanks for your post. It's hard for me to understand how those folks
who want unconditionally obedient children could get unschooling to work
in their families. How would the children feel free to pursue their own
passions? Wouldn't they always be glancing over to their parents to
look for approval?
(I guess I can partially get that there is an idea that God will reveal
to each person what their talents and purpose are. But how decisions
about time-usage get made in the type of household that you wrote about
isn't clear to me.)
Betsy
Heather Woodward
Ok - I am "unlurking" ;-) I am a Christian Unschooler and although I do not find I get "flack" from anyone of my faith - I have run into some issues that have been difficult for me because of my increased learning of Unschooling. For example, I had an incident in Sunday School, where there was a reward system. At one point I had planned an adult devotional and I had brought a tape recorder. My son was playing with it and messing with the music - so I asked him to please stop. He didn't stop right away and the SS leader came and told him he was taking away one of his "stickers" or whatever they were for not obeying his mom. I was so angry. This type of thing has happened several times. Each time I spoke up about it, but the leader clearly thought I was in error and he was "helping". I apparently don't have the type of kids who sit all in a row, silent for hours. Other kids do this - so I wonder if I am doing something wrong, etc. A lot of the other parents who are not "Unschoolers" but many are homeschoolers do spank, and use rewards and punishments. The harder I tried to get away from those things, and the more I tried to give more control to my children for their choices, the more often that behavior became a point of contention. However, we are not talking about screaming or noise during the service, but usual "kid noise" and behavior. So, I had great conflict with the SS leader and the increasing amount of rules towards children at the church. (No markers, must sit with parents for dinners, etc.) There were issues with certain families that these rules were meant to address, however by making blanket rules, it really did not make for a child friendly environment. If they were really following Biblical Principles they would have gone directly to the people who were "offending" and spoke to them.
What the difficulty was, was that my take on all of this was different from everyone else. Most parents liked what the Sunday School was doing as far as rewards and started using them in their home. They liked the rules - because they could tell their kid "It's just the rule". I have a problem with senseless rules. So, although its not a "faith" issue ( and I have since changed my meeting hall as we have moved) I do think that Unschooling makes you look at children differently and see them not as objects to force into subjection, but people that deserve respect in their own right.
I have ongoing issues and questions as I develop an Unschooling mindset. I have found that it is not enough to just not "do a curriculum". It encompasses how we treat our children throughout life.
Someone on some list spoke of how Jesus taught. He used stories, things of interest to his audience, hand -on miracles, etc. I don't see where he praised people for their rigidity or for spanking. To be honest I am not sure about the verses that speak of spanking. (i.e. if you beat a child he will not die, etc.) Words change meaning over time - and often the original word in the Hebrew of Greek is not even translated the way it should be, so it takes a bit of digging and prayerful consideration to figure it out. What I do know, is that I don't feel comfortable with this(spanking) and my own kids. I don't feel that because other Christians look at child raising in a certain way, that I have to agree.
I have found it difficult to undo much of what I learned or read about raising children. I have found people within my faith, that are raising their children like me, which has helped. It has also helped enormously to read what other homeschoolers post, and describe within their own families.
I would also say that some of the Christian ideas are difficult alongside homeschooling. Sometimes, I don't know if I just have one foot on either side of the fence.
Has anyone else felt that they were working on "unschooling" - as far as interactions within the family -(not the academic side) letting go of restrictions or controls measure etc. Maybe this question does not make sense to those that are truly unschooling - but for me in trying to do this it seems to be a continual process. And throughout this process I find myself questioning my previously held "norms" in looking for a better way in treating my children as people.
Heather
What the difficulty was, was that my take on all of this was different from everyone else. Most parents liked what the Sunday School was doing as far as rewards and started using them in their home. They liked the rules - because they could tell their kid "It's just the rule". I have a problem with senseless rules. So, although its not a "faith" issue ( and I have since changed my meeting hall as we have moved) I do think that Unschooling makes you look at children differently and see them not as objects to force into subjection, but people that deserve respect in their own right.
I have ongoing issues and questions as I develop an Unschooling mindset. I have found that it is not enough to just not "do a curriculum". It encompasses how we treat our children throughout life.
Someone on some list spoke of how Jesus taught. He used stories, things of interest to his audience, hand -on miracles, etc. I don't see where he praised people for their rigidity or for spanking. To be honest I am not sure about the verses that speak of spanking. (i.e. if you beat a child he will not die, etc.) Words change meaning over time - and often the original word in the Hebrew of Greek is not even translated the way it should be, so it takes a bit of digging and prayerful consideration to figure it out. What I do know, is that I don't feel comfortable with this(spanking) and my own kids. I don't feel that because other Christians look at child raising in a certain way, that I have to agree.
I have found it difficult to undo much of what I learned or read about raising children. I have found people within my faith, that are raising their children like me, which has helped. It has also helped enormously to read what other homeschoolers post, and describe within their own families.
I would also say that some of the Christian ideas are difficult alongside homeschooling. Sometimes, I don't know if I just have one foot on either side of the fence.
Has anyone else felt that they were working on "unschooling" - as far as interactions within the family -(not the academic side) letting go of restrictions or controls measure etc. Maybe this question does not make sense to those that are truly unschooling - but for me in trying to do this it seems to be a continual process. And throughout this process I find myself questioning my previously held "norms" in looking for a better way in treating my children as people.
Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason & Stephanie
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Christian and Unschooling
<<<<<<<I did join a Christian unschooling list. I was on it for a while and we all
did have some different ideas about what unschooling meant to each of us.
NO problem I get that in a lot of places. And we do have some of the same
ideas, some people more than others on the list. But when the subject turned to
parenting specifically, there seemed to be more division than I am used to.
It turned to the topic of spanking and I tried hard not to respond at first
but there were a lot of people who, for religious reasons, do spank their
children. Not all but a lot. I had to leave the list when some told me that I
was not Christian enough, I didn't understand my Bible or spanking, that it
was my duty as the parent to teach my children to submit and obey. I will
never forget those words.>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That was hard to snip<g> Pam I was there too briefly and I left when you did. I completely agreed with all of your posts.
Stephanie
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Wilsonfamily28
I have a question if it is not getting too off topic. I am new to unschooling and to this discussion group. I am not religous, one of the reasons we chose to homeschool our children is so they have a better chance in life. We just recently chose to start unschooling. I want to help them grow to enjoy learning and to be good family members. I have a 6 yr old daughter and 4 yr old son. My question is this. How or Do any of you discipline in anyway? I am losing patience with my 4 yr old he just does not hear me. He likes to argue. One situation would be :my daughter and him would be playing great and then the next minute he is hitting or yelling (usually because she does not want to do things the same way he does). He does not communicate his feelings very well yet. It is not fair for my daughter and it is so frustrating. Nobody acts like this to him. We have tried rewards when he acts nicely, we have tried time outs, taking favorite toys away, talking about it, (never any spanking or physical punishment) I am just not sure what to do anymore, so if there are any suggestions out there on how you guys would handle these types of situations it would be great. Thank you. I hope I did not change the discussion too much.
Brenda
Brenda
----- Original Message -----
From: Heather Woodward
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Christian and Unschooling
Ok - I am "unlurking" ;-) I am a Christian Unschooler and although I do not find I get "flack" from anyone of my faith - I have run into some issues that have been difficult for me because of my increased learning of Unschooling. For example, I had an incident in Sunday School, where there was a reward system. At one point I had planned an adult devotional and I had brought a tape recorder. My son was playing with it and messing with the music - so I asked him to please stop. He didn't stop right away and the SS leader came and told him he was taking away one of his "stickers" or whatever they were for not obeying his mom. I was so angry. This type of thing has happened several times. Each time I spoke up about it, but the leader clearly thought I was in error and he was "helping". I apparently don't have the type of kids who sit all in a row, silent for hours. Other kids do this - so I wonder if I am doing something wrong, etc. A lot of the other parents who are not "Unscho!
olers" but many are homeschoolers do spank, and use rewards and punishments. The harder I tried to get away from those things, and the more I tried to give more control to my children for their choices, the more often that behavior became a point of contention. However, we are not talking about screaming or noise during the service, but usual "kid noise" and behavior. So, I had great conflict with the SS leader and the increasing amount of rules towards children at the church. (No markers, must sit with parents for dinners, etc.) There were issues with certain families that these rules were meant to address, however by making blanket rules, it really did not make for a child friendly environment. If they were really following Biblical Principles they would have gone directly to the people who were "offending" and spoke to them.
What the difficulty was, was that my take on all of this was different from everyone else. Most parents liked what the Sunday School was doing as far as rewards and started using them in their home. They liked the rules - because they could tell their kid "It's just the rule". I have a problem with senseless rules. So, although its not a "faith" issue ( and I have since changed my meeting hall as we have moved) I do think that Unschooling makes you look at children differently and see them not as objects to force into subjection, but people that deserve respect in their own right.
I have ongoing issues and questions as I develop an Unschooling mindset. I have found that it is not enough to just not "do a curriculum". It encompasses how we treat our children throughout life.
Someone on some list spoke of how Jesus taught. He used stories, things of interest to his audience, hand -on miracles, etc. I don't see where he praised people for their rigidity or for spanking. To be honest I am not sure about the verses that speak of spanking. (i.e. if you beat a child he will not die, etc.) Words change meaning over time - and often the original word in the Hebrew of Greek is not even translated the way it should be, so it takes a bit of digging and prayerful consideration to figure it out. What I do know, is that I don't feel comfortable with this(spanking) and my own kids. I don't feel that because other Christians look at child raising in a certain way, that I have to agree.
I have found it difficult to undo much of what I learned or read about raising children. I have found people within my faith, that are raising their children like me, which has helped. It has also helped enormously to read what other homeschoolers post, and describe within their own families.
I would also say that some of the Christian ideas are difficult alongside homeschooling. Sometimes, I don't know if I just have one foot on either side of the fence.
Has anyone else felt that they were working on "unschooling" - as far as interactions within the family -(not the academic side) letting go of restrictions or controls measure etc. Maybe this question does not make sense to those that are truly unschooling - but for me in trying to do this it seems to be a continual process. And throughout this process I find myself questioning my previously held "norms" in looking for a better way in treating my children as people.
Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason & Stephanie
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Christian and Unschooling
<<<<<<<I did join a Christian unschooling list. I was on it for a while and we all
did have some different ideas about what unschooling meant to each of us.
NO problem I get that in a lot of places. And we do have some of the same
ideas, some people more than others on the list. But when the subject turned to
parenting specifically, there seemed to be more division than I am used to.
It turned to the topic of spanking and I tried hard not to respond at first
but there were a lot of people who, for religious reasons, do spank their
children. Not all but a lot. I had to leave the list when some told me that I
was not Christian enough, I didn't understand my Bible or spanking, that it
was my duty as the parent to teach my children to submit and obey. I will
never forget those words.>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That was hard to snip<g> Pam I was there too briefly and I left when you did. I completely agreed with all of your posts.
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
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ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie
***How or Do any of you discipline in anyway? I am losing patience with my 4
yr old he just does not hear me. He likes to argue. One situation would be
:my daughter and him would be playing great and then the next minute he is
hitting or yelling (usually because she does not want to do things the same
way he does). He does not communicate his feelings very well yet. It is not
fair for my daughter and it is so frustrating. Nobody acts like this to him.
We have tried rewards when he acts nicely, we have tried time outs, taking
favorite toys away, talking about it, (never any spanking or physical
punishment) ****
Read anything by Adele Faber. The most helpful book I have ever read is How
To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. She has also
written Siblings Without Rivalry which I haven't read but lots of people
here recommend it. The co-author for both books is Elaine Mazlish (sp?) I
have so many more tools for helping my kids to get along with each other and
to communicate their feelings. We had immediate changes in our family
dynamics which was really encouraging.
HTH
Julie
yr old he just does not hear me. He likes to argue. One situation would be
:my daughter and him would be playing great and then the next minute he is
hitting or yelling (usually because she does not want to do things the same
way he does). He does not communicate his feelings very well yet. It is not
fair for my daughter and it is so frustrating. Nobody acts like this to him.
We have tried rewards when he acts nicely, we have tried time outs, taking
favorite toys away, talking about it, (never any spanking or physical
punishment) ****
Read anything by Adele Faber. The most helpful book I have ever read is How
To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. She has also
written Siblings Without Rivalry which I haven't read but lots of people
here recommend it. The co-author for both books is Elaine Mazlish (sp?) I
have so many more tools for helping my kids to get along with each other and
to communicate their feelings. We had immediate changes in our family
dynamics which was really encouraging.
HTH
Julie
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/11/2004 4:25:30 PM Mountain Standard Time,
wilsonfamily28@... writes:
How or Do any of you discipline in anyway? I am losing patience with my 4 yr
old he just does not hear me. . . .We have tried rewards when he acts nicely,
we have tried time outs, taking favorite toys away, talking about it, (never
any spanking or physical punishment) I am just not sure what to do anymore, so
if there are any suggestions out there on how you guys would handle these
types of situations it would be great.
http://sandradodd.com/spanking
There is a discussion list for people trying to get away from spanking (or
who just want to share non-punitive ideas for discipline) and it's linked on
that page. It's run by Pam Sorooshian, one of the owners of this list. Pam was
never spanked as a child and has never spanked, but there are people on that
list who are reformed or recovering types too.
That might be your bet bet.
And there are other links to ideas at the URL above too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wilsonfamily28@... writes:
How or Do any of you discipline in anyway? I am losing patience with my 4 yr
old he just does not hear me. . . .We have tried rewards when he acts nicely,
we have tried time outs, taking favorite toys away, talking about it, (never
any spanking or physical punishment) I am just not sure what to do anymore, so
if there are any suggestions out there on how you guys would handle these
types of situations it would be great.
http://sandradodd.com/spanking
There is a discussion list for people trying to get away from spanking (or
who just want to share non-punitive ideas for discipline) and it's linked on
that page. It's run by Pam Sorooshian, one of the owners of this list. Pam was
never spanked as a child and has never spanked, but there are people on that
list who are reformed or recovering types too.
That might be your bet bet.
And there are other links to ideas at the URL above too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<< I have a 6 yr old daughter and 4 yr old son.>>>>
Hi Brenda,
You may be interested in adding AlwaysUnschooled to your "library" of
Unschooling E-lists as it is aimed at pre-school age children and up to
about 8. Please come and post the same question for even more ideas.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
Robyn L. Coburn
(shameless promoter and list owner)
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 10/22/2004
Hi Brenda,
You may be interested in adding AlwaysUnschooled to your "library" of
Unschooling E-lists as it is aimed at pre-school age children and up to
about 8. Please come and post the same question for even more ideas.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
Robyn L. Coburn
(shameless promoter and list owner)
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 10/22/2004
Jason & Stephanie
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
Robyn L. Coburn
(shameless promoter and list owner)
***********That's ok Robin, it's a great group!
Stephanie(lurker on AlwaysUnschooled<g>)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
(shameless promoter and list owner)
***********That's ok Robin, it's a great group!
Stephanie(lurker on AlwaysUnschooled<g>)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 11/11/04 5:03 PM, Wilsonfamily28 at wilsonfamily28@... wrote:
In the meantime, I think it will help you look at his behavior differently
if you see that he's reacting out of supreme frustration. It's not that he
doesn't know better but that when he's in a situation where he wants things
to happen differently he doesn't know how to make that happen. He only knows
he's not supposed to hit. So he gets frustrated and he hits.
But understanding why isn't the same as condoning, of course. You need to
stop him each time he's hitting and yelling at your daughter. (Even keep him
occupied by your side if it's happening too often and getting her stresed
out.) She needs to feel safe in her own home and needs to feel that someone
will come running if there's someone trying to hurt her.
But treat him hitting her separate from helping him learn better ways. He
can't stop being frustrated (and therefore hitting) unitl he has and can use
in high emotional times better tools to deal with the sitaution.
Stopping your daughter from being hurt is one issue. Tell him that's not an
acceptable way to let people know his feelings. You may have to do that a
fair number of times.
But then as a separate issue, help him figure out better ways.
Sandra had a three step process for kids to go through. (I was going to try
to paraphrase but I found a quote :-)
> One situation would be :my daughter and him would be playing great and thenI'd second the book recommendations and the NoMoreSpanking list.
> the next minute he is hitting or yelling (usually because she does not want to
> do things the same way he does). He does not communicate his feelings very
> well yet.
In the meantime, I think it will help you look at his behavior differently
if you see that he's reacting out of supreme frustration. It's not that he
doesn't know better but that when he's in a situation where he wants things
to happen differently he doesn't know how to make that happen. He only knows
he's not supposed to hit. So he gets frustrated and he hits.
But understanding why isn't the same as condoning, of course. You need to
stop him each time he's hitting and yelling at your daughter. (Even keep him
occupied by your side if it's happening too often and getting her stresed
out.) She needs to feel safe in her own home and needs to feel that someone
will come running if there's someone trying to hurt her.
But treat him hitting her separate from helping him learn better ways. He
can't stop being frustrated (and therefore hitting) unitl he has and can use
in high emotional times better tools to deal with the sitaution.
Stopping your daughter from being hurt is one issue. Tell him that's not an
acceptable way to let people know his feelings. You may have to do that a
fair number of times.
But then as a separate issue, help him figure out better ways.
Sandra had a three step process for kids to go through. (I was going to try
to paraphrase but I found a quote :-)
> When they were little the I'd tell them they couldn't hit unless they hadJoyce
> first tried to talk about it, THEN get an adult to help them solve their
> problem, and if that didn't help then they could hit.
Wilsonfamily28
Thanks Julie I am headed to the library today to check it out.
Brenda
Brenda
----- Original Message -----
From: Julie
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Christian and Unschooling
***How or Do any of you discipline in anyway? I am losing patience with my 4
yr old he just does not hear me. He likes to argue. One situation would be
:my daughter and him would be playing great and then the next minute he is
hitting or yelling (usually because she does not want to do things the same
way he does). He does not communicate his feelings very well yet. It is not
fair for my daughter and it is so frustrating. Nobody acts like this to him.
We have tried rewards when he acts nicely, we have tried time outs, taking
favorite toys away, talking about it, (never any spanking or physical
punishment) ****
Read anything by Adele Faber. The most helpful book I have ever read is How
To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. She has also
written Siblings Without Rivalry which I haven't read but lots of people
here recommend it. The co-author for both books is Elaine Mazlish (sp?) I
have so many more tools for helping my kids to get along with each other and
to communicate their feelings. We had immediate changes in our family
dynamics which was really encouraging.
HTH
Julie
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wilsonfamily28
Hi Sandra Thank you there seems to be quite a bit of info here for me to go through.
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Christian and Unschooling
In a message dated 11/11/2004 4:25:30 PM Mountain Standard Time,
wilsonfamily28@... writes:
How or Do any of you discipline in anyway? I am losing patience with my 4 yr
old he just does not hear me. . . .We have tried rewards when he acts nicely,
we have tried time outs, taking favorite toys away, talking about it, (never
any spanking or physical punishment) I am just not sure what to do anymore, so
if there are any suggestions out there on how you guys would handle these
types of situations it would be great.
http://sandradodd.com/spanking
There is a discussion list for people trying to get away from spanking (or
who just want to share non-punitive ideas for discipline) and it's linked on
that page. It's run by Pam Sorooshian, one of the owners of this list. Pam was
never spanked as a child and has never spanked, but there are people on that
list who are reformed or recovering types too.
That might be your bet bet.
And there are other links to ideas at the URL above too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/04 3:45:20 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< Sandra had a three step process for kids to go through. (I was going to try
to paraphrase but I found a quote :-)
hit one another (Kirby and Marty) sometimes and instead of saying "NEVER" I
said "Not until after..." And they never did come to a point where asking a
grownup for help didn't solve the problem.
The process could work without me there, too. It would work in public or if
others were watching them. Talk. Ask for help to make peace. [Then if
that doesn't work, hit.]
It was a way for me to calmly respond if Marty said "Kirby hit me." I could
ask Marty if Kirby had talked to him first. Yes. (Always, Kirby had tried
talking first.) So I'd go to Kirby and say "Marty says you hit him."
[discussion there] "You didn't come and ask me to help you straighten it out, so
you shouldn't have hit him."
Here's more detail on what worked best for me in straightening out
disagreements between two kids. I still use this now and they're all teenagers.
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
And just so people will know I have hit little children (which I now regret
and am never tempted to do anymore because better ideas work better and make me
a better person, and my kids better people), here:
http://sandradodd.com/zeneverything
I just posted that on another list.
Now I'll go and post the peace/fighting one there too.
Sandra
<< Sandra had a three step process for kids to go through. (I was going to try
to paraphrase but I found a quote :-)
> When they were little the I'd tell them they couldn't hit unless they hadIt wasn't because I wanted them to hit, it was that they had the huge urge t
> first tried to talk about it, THEN get an adult to help them solve their
> problem, and if that didn't help then they could hit. >>
hit one another (Kirby and Marty) sometimes and instead of saying "NEVER" I
said "Not until after..." And they never did come to a point where asking a
grownup for help didn't solve the problem.
The process could work without me there, too. It would work in public or if
others were watching them. Talk. Ask for help to make peace. [Then if
that doesn't work, hit.]
It was a way for me to calmly respond if Marty said "Kirby hit me." I could
ask Marty if Kirby had talked to him first. Yes. (Always, Kirby had tried
talking first.) So I'd go to Kirby and say "Marty says you hit him."
[discussion there] "You didn't come and ask me to help you straighten it out, so
you shouldn't have hit him."
Here's more detail on what worked best for me in straightening out
disagreements between two kids. I still use this now and they're all teenagers.
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
And just so people will know I have hit little children (which I now regret
and am never tempted to do anymore because better ideas work better and make me
a better person, and my kids better people), here:
http://sandradodd.com/zeneverything
I just posted that on another list.
Now I'll go and post the peace/fighting one there too.
Sandra
soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], "Heather Woodward"
<bacwoodz@e...> wrote:
For example, I had an incident in Sunday School, where there was a
reward system.
Hi Heather - we ran into this this year with DS (he's 6 1/2). Up
until now it's mostly been really relaxed but now he's in with
the "1st and 2nd graders" and the teacher in the class is anice
person but a former public school teacher with a very teacher
mentality still. I was nervous. And sure enough, the second week of
class, she came to tell me that DS got really upset when she asked
him to do his memory verse and he said I don't remember and he
didn't get another chance at it after the other kids went - that's
not the "rule". For each verse they do, they get a mark and anyone
with a full set of marks gets to go out to Taco Bell at the end of
the quarter. Whooppee! lol. So, when we got home, I asked DS about
it (I was flipping irritated that he didn't get a second chance but
I held my tongue until I got the whole picture). We generally go out
to restaurants about once a week, so I asked him how important this
was to him and what part was important. He wanted to do it to show
he could do it, it did have importance for him. Now we write it on
the chalkboard in the kitchen and review once or twice a week. Then
we get there early so he's the first kid in class and I give him the
first word and he does fine from there. Then I head out to my class
and all is well. (BTW she had a "make up" week as well where they
could catch up on any they missed so he's all caught up now and
quite happy to point it out to me when I go to his classroom).
see where he praised people for their rigidity or for spanking. To
be honest I am not sure about the verses that speak of spanking.
(i.e. if you beat a child he will not die, etc.)
Mostly they are in the Old Testament, often in Proverbs. Jesus was
more likely to say Let the children come to me than to rebuke a
child for acting like a child. You never get a picture of kids being
shy or nervous around him and he even encouraged grown ups to be
more like them - open, honest, caring, etc.
lot like battling the Borg (Star Trek FYI) - they adapt - just as
soon as you figure out one thing, everything changes and you have to
figure things out again. Just as soon as we got used to his 3 yr old
behavior, he turned 4 and a whole other set of things appeared. And
so on. We can draw on those experiences and the tools we've
developed and the things we've learned about him and ourselves but
it is an ongoing process. There's a comedy song called Tai Kwon Leap
(silly bit really) but at one point the sensei character says "Tai
Kwon Leap is not a path to a door but a road leading forever to the
horizon" and I think life and unschooling fit that - it's not
someplace you get to and there you are but a journey ever onward
with twists and turns and changes, dropping baggage that slows up
down or causes problems and picking up things that are useful and
helpful on our journey, our paths crossing and intertwining with
others, some of whom are going our way and others who are trying to
send us off on detours or block our way.
<bacwoodz@e...> wrote:
For example, I had an incident in Sunday School, where there was a
reward system.
Hi Heather - we ran into this this year with DS (he's 6 1/2). Up
until now it's mostly been really relaxed but now he's in with
the "1st and 2nd graders" and the teacher in the class is anice
person but a former public school teacher with a very teacher
mentality still. I was nervous. And sure enough, the second week of
class, she came to tell me that DS got really upset when she asked
him to do his memory verse and he said I don't remember and he
didn't get another chance at it after the other kids went - that's
not the "rule". For each verse they do, they get a mark and anyone
with a full set of marks gets to go out to Taco Bell at the end of
the quarter. Whooppee! lol. So, when we got home, I asked DS about
it (I was flipping irritated that he didn't get a second chance but
I held my tongue until I got the whole picture). We generally go out
to restaurants about once a week, so I asked him how important this
was to him and what part was important. He wanted to do it to show
he could do it, it did have importance for him. Now we write it on
the chalkboard in the kitchen and review once or twice a week. Then
we get there early so he's the first kid in class and I give him the
first word and he does fine from there. Then I head out to my class
and all is well. (BTW she had a "make up" week as well where they
could catch up on any they missed so he's all caught up now and
quite happy to point it out to me when I go to his classroom).
>things of interest to his audience, hand -on miracles, etc. I don't
> Someone on some list spoke of how Jesus taught. He used stories,
see where he praised people for their rigidity or for spanking. To
be honest I am not sure about the verses that speak of spanking.
(i.e. if you beat a child he will not die, etc.)
Mostly they are in the Old Testament, often in Proverbs. Jesus was
more likely to say Let the children come to me than to rebuke a
child for acting like a child. You never get a picture of kids being
shy or nervous around him and he even encouraged grown ups to be
more like them - open, honest, caring, etc.
> Has anyone else felt that they were working on "unschooling"We're always working on it - we like to joke that raising kids is a
lot like battling the Borg (Star Trek FYI) - they adapt - just as
soon as you figure out one thing, everything changes and you have to
figure things out again. Just as soon as we got used to his 3 yr old
behavior, he turned 4 and a whole other set of things appeared. And
so on. We can draw on those experiences and the tools we've
developed and the things we've learned about him and ourselves but
it is an ongoing process. There's a comedy song called Tai Kwon Leap
(silly bit really) but at one point the sensei character says "Tai
Kwon Leap is not a path to a door but a road leading forever to the
horizon" and I think life and unschooling fit that - it's not
someplace you get to and there you are but a journey ever onward
with twists and turns and changes, dropping baggage that slows up
down or causes problems and picking up things that are useful and
helpful on our journey, our paths crossing and intertwining with
others, some of whom are going our way and others who are trying to
send us off on detours or block our way.
Danielle Conger
Thank you for sharing that link, Sandra; it's one I hadn't read all the
way through.
This morning was our monthly La Leche League meeting, and across the way
in the same church was a MOMs group meeting/ playgroup for SAHMs. When
their meeting was over, one of the coordinators came over and handed us
her card and asked for a LLL flyer that she could pass around to her
moms. That was really nice, and my kids (7, 5 and 4) were enjoying
running around with her two little girls, maybe 5 and 3 or 4 and 2. The
mom was telling me there were kids of all ages in the group, though they
didn't come during the day, of course, because they were in school. I
just smiled and nodded and thanked her.
Once we were done exchanging info and that mom was trying to get herself
and her kids ready to go, I could hear her yelling at them in the hall
to sit still, I'm-tired-of-this kind of stuff, etc. and I was thinking
to myself, "no, I don't think we'll be joining those playgroups."
Well, Julia and I went to the bathroom while Sam and Em stayed in the
foyer with one of our LLL leaders, and when I got back, the MOM's group
mother was looking at Emily, saying "Well, I don't know what you mean"
with a puzzled look on her face. I said something like oh, what did she
say kind of thing, and the lady said, "She said that you don't ground."
I just laughed and said, "No, we don't punish," leaving the astonished
woman in my wake as I went to retrieve the rest of our stuff from the room.
The other LLL leader followed me in and related that the MOMs group
woman was yelling at her daughters and telling them not to move from
their chairs or get up again, so Emily walked over and very politely
complimented the woman on her jacket, told her that her mommy had the
same jacket, but that her mommy didn't ground her kids. *roflmao* The
other leader and I were laughing so hard (quietly); she was just
cracking up that Em first did the whole fashion comment and then segued
into the whole punishment thing.
Em's concept of getting in trouble is when either dh or I are unhappy
with one of them and maybe speak sharply, but she's getting the idea
that other parents out there "ground" and punish their kids, including
spanking, much of this from cartoons and such. Two neighborhood girls
(11 and 9) have also told her all about grounding, to which Em
supposedly responded, "Well, my mom doesn't ground." The girls told her
that's because she was still young and that I would start soon! She and
I had a long talk about that one and why they might tell her such a
thing. *sigh*
--Danielle
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
way through.
This morning was our monthly La Leche League meeting, and across the way
in the same church was a MOMs group meeting/ playgroup for SAHMs. When
their meeting was over, one of the coordinators came over and handed us
her card and asked for a LLL flyer that she could pass around to her
moms. That was really nice, and my kids (7, 5 and 4) were enjoying
running around with her two little girls, maybe 5 and 3 or 4 and 2. The
mom was telling me there were kids of all ages in the group, though they
didn't come during the day, of course, because they were in school. I
just smiled and nodded and thanked her.
Once we were done exchanging info and that mom was trying to get herself
and her kids ready to go, I could hear her yelling at them in the hall
to sit still, I'm-tired-of-this kind of stuff, etc. and I was thinking
to myself, "no, I don't think we'll be joining those playgroups."
Well, Julia and I went to the bathroom while Sam and Em stayed in the
foyer with one of our LLL leaders, and when I got back, the MOM's group
mother was looking at Emily, saying "Well, I don't know what you mean"
with a puzzled look on her face. I said something like oh, what did she
say kind of thing, and the lady said, "She said that you don't ground."
I just laughed and said, "No, we don't punish," leaving the astonished
woman in my wake as I went to retrieve the rest of our stuff from the room.
The other LLL leader followed me in and related that the MOMs group
woman was yelling at her daughters and telling them not to move from
their chairs or get up again, so Emily walked over and very politely
complimented the woman on her jacket, told her that her mommy had the
same jacket, but that her mommy didn't ground her kids. *roflmao* The
other leader and I were laughing so hard (quietly); she was just
cracking up that Em first did the whole fashion comment and then segued
into the whole punishment thing.
Em's concept of getting in trouble is when either dh or I are unhappy
with one of them and maybe speak sharply, but she's getting the idea
that other parents out there "ground" and punish their kids, including
spanking, much of this from cartoons and such. Two neighborhood girls
(11 and 9) have also told her all about grounding, to which Em
supposedly responded, "Well, my mom doesn't ground." The girls told her
that's because she was still young and that I would start soon! She and
I had a long talk about that one and why they might tell her such a
thing. *sigh*
--Danielle
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
>
>
soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], Fetteroll
<fetteroll@e...> wrote:
them solve their problem, and if that didn't help then they could
hit.> Joyce
Just to throw this out for discussion because I like that 3 step
approach is what to do when the problem is WITH an adult. For
example, DS (6 1/2 yo) hitting DH because DH was whistling while
doing the dishes and DS happened to walk through the room and didn't
like it - he wasn't there long, didn't register any complaint about
the whistling, just hauled off and whacked DH.
<fetteroll@e...> wrote:
> Sandra had a three step process for kids to go through. (I wasgoing to try to paraphrase but I found a quote :-)
> > When they were little the I'd tell them they couldn't hit unlessthey had first tried to talk about it, THEN get an adult to help
them solve their problem, and if that didn't help then they could
hit.> Joyce
Just to throw this out for discussion because I like that 3 step
approach is what to do when the problem is WITH an adult. For
example, DS (6 1/2 yo) hitting DH because DH was whistling while
doing the dishes and DS happened to walk through the room and didn't
like it - he wasn't there long, didn't register any complaint about
the whistling, just hauled off and whacked DH.
Daniela
Oh, my.
Maybe I should share with the group a gaffe. I am Italian. I have seen
some wooden chairs for real cheap at walmart or walgreens or whatever,
so, I figured I'd buy a couple. My daughter was also insisting in the
supermarket, the chairs, she said, are beautiful, and have letters, too.
I had not quite understood the actual meaning of those seven letters,
namely, 'time out'. Of course, my partner, who is american, laughed a
lot when he saw the new chairs in the evening. I then considered
removing the letters that are glued on the back of the chairs, but the
child protested that i must not. So, they still are hanging around, and
from time to time i think of anagrams and of shuffling the letters while
they sleep.
Let me take the opportunity to introduce myself: I am Daniela, 32, from
the bay area in california, two children of 4 and half and one and half.
Nice meeting you all.
Daniela
Maybe I should share with the group a gaffe. I am Italian. I have seen
some wooden chairs for real cheap at walmart or walgreens or whatever,
so, I figured I'd buy a couple. My daughter was also insisting in the
supermarket, the chairs, she said, are beautiful, and have letters, too.
I had not quite understood the actual meaning of those seven letters,
namely, 'time out'. Of course, my partner, who is american, laughed a
lot when he saw the new chairs in the evening. I then considered
removing the letters that are glued on the back of the chairs, but the
child protested that i must not. So, they still are hanging around, and
from time to time i think of anagrams and of shuffling the letters while
they sleep.
Let me take the opportunity to introduce myself: I am Daniela, 32, from
the bay area in california, two children of 4 and half and one and half.
Nice meeting you all.
Daniela
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/04 1:12:22 PM, debra.rossing@... writes:
<< We're always working on it - we like to joke that raising kids is a
lot like battling the Borg (Star Trek FYI) - they adapt - just as
soon as you figure out one thing, everything changes and you have to
figure things out again. Just as soon as we got used to his 3 yr old
behavior, he turned 4 and a whole other set of things appeared. >>
The post was positive and I think you're right about the journey to the
horizon and all, but as to "raising kids" being like battling anything, I don't
think it's a good image to have.
When parents see children as adversaries or challengers, it's an inferior
model to seeing yourself as your child's partner. So in that model, you can
rejoice that a new mind has joined the Borg and you and your child can share
knowledge and experiences!
Partnering with the Borg might not be a pleasant image either. <g>
But anyone who's going to unschool successfully will be assimilated by their
children's interests and joys.
I have a friend who has identical twin brothers who get along well and finish
one another's sentences and all that. He calls them "the Borg."
Sandra
<< We're always working on it - we like to joke that raising kids is a
lot like battling the Borg (Star Trek FYI) - they adapt - just as
soon as you figure out one thing, everything changes and you have to
figure things out again. Just as soon as we got used to his 3 yr old
behavior, he turned 4 and a whole other set of things appeared. >>
The post was positive and I think you're right about the journey to the
horizon and all, but as to "raising kids" being like battling anything, I don't
think it's a good image to have.
When parents see children as adversaries or challengers, it's an inferior
model to seeing yourself as your child's partner. So in that model, you can
rejoice that a new mind has joined the Borg and you and your child can share
knowledge and experiences!
Partnering with the Borg might not be a pleasant image either. <g>
But anyone who's going to unschool successfully will be assimilated by their
children's interests and joys.
I have a friend who has identical twin brothers who get along well and finish
one another's sentences and all that. He calls them "the Borg."
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/04 2:26:23 PM, debra.rossing@... writes:
<< Just to throw this out for discussion because I like that 3 step
approach is what to do when the problem is WITH an adult. For
example, DS (6 1/2 yo) hitting DH because DH was whistling while
doing the dishes and DS happened to walk through the room and didn't
like it - he wasn't there long, didn't register any complaint about
the whistling, just hauled off and whacked DH. >>
Weird.
I would definitely tell the kid that if he did that outside the house he
could easily be hit back, and someone as big as his dad could really hurt him, so
what is he thinking?
And I'd tell him that if he did that outside to someone smaller, it could be
called assault and though they don't take six year olds to jail, they won't
hesitate about taking an older kid or an adult to jail.
We've never had our kids hit us, so I don't have personal experience, but I
would caution you against baby-talking him in any way. If he doesn't like whis
tling, he should go to another room and do something else.
Had he asked his dad to do something with him?
Had he not liked dinner and was hungry?
What was his real issue? Probably NOT whistling.
Sandra
<< Just to throw this out for discussion because I like that 3 step
approach is what to do when the problem is WITH an adult. For
example, DS (6 1/2 yo) hitting DH because DH was whistling while
doing the dishes and DS happened to walk through the room and didn't
like it - he wasn't there long, didn't register any complaint about
the whistling, just hauled off and whacked DH. >>
Weird.
I would definitely tell the kid that if he did that outside the house he
could easily be hit back, and someone as big as his dad could really hurt him, so
what is he thinking?
And I'd tell him that if he did that outside to someone smaller, it could be
called assault and though they don't take six year olds to jail, they won't
hesitate about taking an older kid or an adult to jail.
We've never had our kids hit us, so I don't have personal experience, but I
would caution you against baby-talking him in any way. If he doesn't like whis
tling, he should go to another room and do something else.
Had he asked his dad to do something with him?
Had he not liked dinner and was hungry?
What was his real issue? Probably NOT whistling.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/04 3:14:05 PM, daniela_daniela@... writes:
<< I had not quite understood the actual meaning of those seven letters,
namely, 'time out'. >>
We saw a beautiful child-sized garden bench one day and I had only seen it
from the back. It was gorgeous. Holly was standing on the other side with a
very serious look on her face, gazing up at it on the high shelf where it was.
She said "That is *so* sad."
I went around and looked, and the back of it said "Time Out."
Sandra
<< I had not quite understood the actual meaning of those seven letters,
namely, 'time out'. >>
We saw a beautiful child-sized garden bench one day and I had only seen it
from the back. It was gorgeous. Holly was standing on the other side with a
very serious look on her face, gazing up at it on the high shelf where it was.
She said "That is *so* sad."
I went around and looked, and the back of it said "Time Out."
Sandra
Cally Brown
'Time Out'. Hmmmm. Here in New Zealand 'time out' can mean the same as
the way you guys are thinking it, but it is also commonly used in a good
way. "I'm taking time out from university for a year to work / travel /
whatever', or 'I'm taking time out tomorrow, leaving the kids with their
father and spending the day with my friends / reading / shopping /
whatever.'
"Time Out' is also the name of a chain of games places, you know, where
there are games machines, you put money in, you run out of money then
you ask your parents for more.... Something kids especially boys, of
all ages enjoy.
So take those letters off the kids' chairs, and attach one set to a big,
comfortable armchair. Make some pockets to hang over the arms, and
stock them with good books and chocolates, and tell everyone that when
you are sitting in that chair, they are not to disturb you please unless
absolutely necessary, because you are having a Kiwi (New Zealand) time
out :-)
If you attach another set to the Playstation, games computer whatever,
then they'll probably be happy to leave you in your time out chair.
Happy time out folks.
Cally
the way you guys are thinking it, but it is also commonly used in a good
way. "I'm taking time out from university for a year to work / travel /
whatever', or 'I'm taking time out tomorrow, leaving the kids with their
father and spending the day with my friends / reading / shopping /
whatever.'
"Time Out' is also the name of a chain of games places, you know, where
there are games machines, you put money in, you run out of money then
you ask your parents for more.... Something kids especially boys, of
all ages enjoy.
So take those letters off the kids' chairs, and attach one set to a big,
comfortable armchair. Make some pockets to hang over the arms, and
stock them with good books and chocolates, and tell everyone that when
you are sitting in that chair, they are not to disturb you please unless
absolutely necessary, because you are having a Kiwi (New Zealand) time
out :-)
If you attach another set to the Playstation, games computer whatever,
then they'll probably be happy to leave you in your time out chair.
Happy time out folks.
Cally
Dawn Adams
Brenda writes:
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>My question is this. How or Do any of you discipline in anyway? I am losing patience with my 4 yr old he just does not >hear me. He likes to argue.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Funny thing, when my daughter gets argumentative and doesn't listen to me - I'm not listening to her either. When I watch other young kids get into it with their parents it's amazing how it's the same case. I parent who's so occupied with telling a kid what to do, trying to get the kid to hear what they're saying that they are completely missing the fact that the kid is also trying to get the parent to hear them. So, I'm the adult who's had decades to fine tune my emotional control and communication skills so it's up to me to take a step back and just listen.
> One situation would be :my daughter and him would be playing great and then the next minute he is hitting or yelling >(usually because she does not want to do things the same way he does).When there was hitting I'd remove the person hitting to another room and explain that what she was doing was dangerous and unacceptable and let her know that when she felt calmer she was welcome to come back. It seemed to work well but it was never a huge problem here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>He does not communicate his feelings very well yet. It is not fair for my daughter and it is so frustrating. Nobody >acts like this to him. We have tried rewards when he acts nicely, we have tried time outs, taking favorite toys away, >talking about it,I would just say that if you're going to talk about it, wait until he's calm. But one thing that seems to be working with my nephew (I look after him a few days a week) is that if the yelling starts I tell him it's unacceptable, take him (kindly) to room to calm down and then when he comes out I find out what the problem was and give him other way to deal with it or words to use next time the problem pops up ("Kyle, you could say, 'Catherine, I was still playing with that toy. I'd like it back please'"). He has problems expressing himself so I find I have to give him lots of specific phrases and tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Dawn (in NS)
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Sheryl Mundy
Heather I must say I am impressed. I am Christian, although most Christians would say I am not, and you are a breath of fresh air. I have always told my kids to always question rules if they don't make sense, even mine. I also teach them to not believe everything that they read no matter what the source. This is not usually a popular stance with most people I know. I do not attend a Church because I don't believe in organized religion. My 4 children all work so hard at different things and are respectful of most people, I like them a lot, I think they are good Christians without the church. I have never posted here before but I wanted to tell you that I agree with your views about the way church should be.
Sheryl
"do not meddle with the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup." annon.
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Sheryl
"do not meddle with the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup." annon.
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wifetovegman2002
It seems like most radical Christian unschoolers find they are too
radical the Christian unschooling lists, or that the Christian
unschooling lists really aren't about unschooling at all.
One such list claiming to be about Christian Unschooling was
discussing the biblical basis for spanking (and most decided it was
a good thing), then a few weeks later the same list was commending a
woman for initiating "reading lessons" every day for her 6yo because
she felt he was ready.
Another list was debating the war and politics and everything else
under the sun but never talking about their kids and unschooling at
all; it is a great list for friendship and chatting, and generates
tons of mail about everything except unschooling, but is not really
for deep discussions about unschooling because most members don't
unschool and readily admit they don't.
On both lists radically unschooling Christians are in the minority
to say the least, and when we point out these things are not
unschooling, are shouted down by the majority or held up as examples
of posts that are unwelcome.
So, just in case anyone here is interested, I created a
RadChristianUnschoolers list at yahoo groups two days ago. Since it
is brand new, so far only I and one other person have joined!
I just know that radical unschooling Christians exist, and that I am
not the only one of my kind! LOL! My thought would be that it would
be a place for Christians to talk about real, radical
unschooling...no curriculum talk, no coercive parenting, no chore
charts or forced respect of children. It is for people who
already "get" radical unschooling, and are living it in their homes.
So here is the link to the group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RadChristianUnschoolers/
~ Susan (wifetovegman)
radical the Christian unschooling lists, or that the Christian
unschooling lists really aren't about unschooling at all.
One such list claiming to be about Christian Unschooling was
discussing the biblical basis for spanking (and most decided it was
a good thing), then a few weeks later the same list was commending a
woman for initiating "reading lessons" every day for her 6yo because
she felt he was ready.
Another list was debating the war and politics and everything else
under the sun but never talking about their kids and unschooling at
all; it is a great list for friendship and chatting, and generates
tons of mail about everything except unschooling, but is not really
for deep discussions about unschooling because most members don't
unschool and readily admit they don't.
On both lists radically unschooling Christians are in the minority
to say the least, and when we point out these things are not
unschooling, are shouted down by the majority or held up as examples
of posts that are unwelcome.
So, just in case anyone here is interested, I created a
RadChristianUnschoolers list at yahoo groups two days ago. Since it
is brand new, so far only I and one other person have joined!
I just know that radical unschooling Christians exist, and that I am
not the only one of my kind! LOL! My thought would be that it would
be a place for Christians to talk about real, radical
unschooling...no curriculum talk, no coercive parenting, no chore
charts or forced respect of children. It is for people who
already "get" radical unschooling, and are living it in their homes.
So here is the link to the group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RadChristianUnschoolers/
~ Susan (wifetovegman)
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/2004 8:08:00 AM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
It wasn't because I wanted them to hit, it was that they had the huge urge t
hit one another (Kirby and Marty) sometimes and instead of saying "NEVER" I
said "Not until after..." And they never did come to a point where asking
a
grownup for help didn't solve the problem.
~~~
When my mother was trying to quit smoking (which she did), she read about
someone else trying, too. That person said, "I've given myself an out. I can
start smoking again when I'm 90."
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
It wasn't because I wanted them to hit, it was that they had the huge urge t
hit one another (Kirby and Marty) sometimes and instead of saying "NEVER" I
said "Not until after..." And they never did come to a point where asking
a
grownup for help didn't solve the problem.
~~~
When my mother was trying to quit smoking (which she did), she read about
someone else trying, too. That person said, "I've given myself an out. I can
start smoking again when I'm 90."
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]