Radical unschooling
Aubrey Lane
Can anyone tell me what the term radical unschooling means or give me
an example? I'm not sure what makes it different from unschooling.
When I hear people talk about radical unschooling I wonder if this is
what we have always done and I just didn't call it that.
Please forgive me if my question seems very naive.
Thanks, Aubrey
an example? I'm not sure what makes it different from unschooling.
When I hear people talk about radical unschooling I wonder if this is
what we have always done and I just didn't call it that.
Please forgive me if my question seems very naive.
Thanks, Aubrey
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Aubrey Lane <a-lane@...>
Can anyone tell me what the term radical unschooling means or give me
an example? I'm not sure what makes it different from unschooling.
When I hear people talk about radical unschooling I wonder if this is
what we have always done and I just didn't call it that.
Please forgive me if my question seems very naive.
Thanks, Aubrey
-=-=-=-
Aubrey,
How do *you* define unschooling?
Radical unschooling means extending the educational philosophy that we will learn what we need to
know when we need to know it into our WHOLE lives---eating, sleeping, watching tv, playing video games,
gardening, skateboarding, playing/collecting Yu-Gi-Oh!, saving/spending money, cooking, biking,
---everything!
It means trusting our children to be the best people they can---and knowing that they are
trying to do that *all* the time.
It means respecting them as full, whole people---even as newborns and
toddlers and tweens and teens---NOT just after they turn 25 or become parents themselves.
It means being patient when they aren't at that "certain point" when we or others expect them to be.
Radical unschooling means treating (and especially parenting) our children as we wish we had been when we
were children. Radical unschooling means believing in ourselves as well as in our children---believing
that we, too, can be better and do better and that we can *always* learn and that learning can and *does*
happen anywhere and at any time. That the whole world---and our whole LIVES---are educational.
~Kelly
Kelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Aubrey Lane <a-lane@...>
Can anyone tell me what the term radical unschooling means or give me
an example? I'm not sure what makes it different from unschooling.
When I hear people talk about radical unschooling I wonder if this is
what we have always done and I just didn't call it that.
Please forgive me if my question seems very naive.
Thanks, Aubrey
-=-=-=-
Aubrey,
How do *you* define unschooling?
Radical unschooling means extending the educational philosophy that we will learn what we need to
know when we need to know it into our WHOLE lives---eating, sleeping, watching tv, playing video games,
gardening, skateboarding, playing/collecting Yu-Gi-Oh!, saving/spending money, cooking, biking,
---everything!
It means trusting our children to be the best people they can---and knowing that they are
trying to do that *all* the time.
It means respecting them as full, whole people---even as newborns and
toddlers and tweens and teens---NOT just after they turn 25 or become parents themselves.
It means being patient when they aren't at that "certain point" when we or others expect them to be.
Radical unschooling means treating (and especially parenting) our children as we wish we had been when we
were children. Radical unschooling means believing in ourselves as well as in our children---believing
that we, too, can be better and do better and that we can *always* learn and that learning can and *does*
happen anywhere and at any time. That the whole world---and our whole LIVES---are educational.
~Kelly
Kelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Aubrey Lane
Well, for our family, just unschooling totally for a few weeks now,
unschooling means feeding my children's passions and helping them pursue
them. A lot like you said about trusting that they will learn and letting
them choose what AND how they want to go about it. I heard a lot of talk on
another board about rules. Can you tell me more about that? There was so
much going back and forth I couldn't get the gist of it.
Thanks so much for answering my questions.
Aubrey
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of kbcdlovejo@...
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 12:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Radical unschooling
-----Original Message-----
From: Aubrey Lane <a-lane@...>
Can anyone tell me what the term radical unschooling means or give me
an example? I'm not sure what makes it different from unschooling.
When I hear people talk about radical unschooling I wonder if this is
what we have always done and I just didn't call it that.
Please forgive me if my question seems very naive.
Thanks, Aubrey
-=-=-=-
Aubrey,
How do *you* define unschooling?
Radical unschooling means extending the educational philosophy that we will
learn what we need to
know when we need to know it into our WHOLE lives---eating, sleeping,
watching tv, playing video games,
gardening, skateboarding, playing/collecting Yu-Gi-Oh!, saving/spending
money, cooking, biking,
---everything!
It means trusting our children to be the best people they can---and knowing
that they are
trying to do that *all* the time.
It means respecting them as full, whole people---even as newborns and
toddlers and tweens and teens---NOT just after they turn 25 or become
parents themselves.
It means being patient when they aren't at that "certain point" when we or
others expect them to be.
Radical unschooling means treating (and especially parenting) our children
as we wish we had been when we
were children. Radical unschooling means believing in ourselves as well as
in our children---believing
that we, too, can be better and do better and that we can *always* learn and
that learning can and *does*
happen anywhere and at any time. That the whole world---and our whole
LIVES---are educational.
~Kelly
Kelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling
Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_____
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_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooling means feeding my children's passions and helping them pursue
them. A lot like you said about trusting that they will learn and letting
them choose what AND how they want to go about it. I heard a lot of talk on
another board about rules. Can you tell me more about that? There was so
much going back and forth I couldn't get the gist of it.
Thanks so much for answering my questions.
Aubrey
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of kbcdlovejo@...
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 12:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Radical unschooling
-----Original Message-----
From: Aubrey Lane <a-lane@...>
Can anyone tell me what the term radical unschooling means or give me
an example? I'm not sure what makes it different from unschooling.
When I hear people talk about radical unschooling I wonder if this is
what we have always done and I just didn't call it that.
Please forgive me if my question seems very naive.
Thanks, Aubrey
-=-=-=-
Aubrey,
How do *you* define unschooling?
Radical unschooling means extending the educational philosophy that we will
learn what we need to
know when we need to know it into our WHOLE lives---eating, sleeping,
watching tv, playing video games,
gardening, skateboarding, playing/collecting Yu-Gi-Oh!, saving/spending
money, cooking, biking,
---everything!
It means trusting our children to be the best people they can---and knowing
that they are
trying to do that *all* the time.
It means respecting them as full, whole people---even as newborns and
toddlers and tweens and teens---NOT just after they turn 25 or become
parents themselves.
It means being patient when they aren't at that "certain point" when we or
others expect them to be.
Radical unschooling means treating (and especially parenting) our children
as we wish we had been when we
were children. Radical unschooling means believing in ourselves as well as
in our children---believing
that we, too, can be better and do better and that we can *always* learn and
that learning can and *does*
happen anywhere and at any time. That the whole world---and our whole
LIVES---are educational.
~Kelly
Kelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling
Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_____
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
* Visit your group "unschoolingbasics
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics> " on the web.
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>Can anyone tell me what the term radical unschooling means or give mean example?>>
I've always thought that Radical Unschooling takes the concept beyond the idea of just "not doing school." Once you begin to question the why of doing things, it can start to spill over into all areas of life. So then you get us radicals who question everything. ;o)
I don't think there's a real and true and final word on what the phrase means. For me, being a Radical Unschooler means having complete Trust in my chidren's innate desire and ability to learn. It means completely rejecting the school model. It means questioning all parenting advice I receive and allowing for a different model of how a contemporary family lives.
Life is good.
~Mary, unschooling mom to Conor (16) and Casey (11)
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
[email protected]
Unschooling---"I trust my kids to learn about school-type stuff but I don't trust them to learn how to handle tv, cleaning their rooms, tooth brushing, etc.. My kids would just veg out in front of the tv all day."
Radical Unschooling---"It is all a process and if kids can teach themselves to read, they can teach themselves how to organize their rooms (with guidance and input from others on both accounts.)
Julie S.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Radical Unschooling---"It is all a process and if kids can teach themselves to read, they can teach themselves how to organize their rooms (with guidance and input from others on both accounts.)
Julie S.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: zenmomma@...
YES! And I didn't even mean to *suggest* that *I* had the answer/definition!
Mine was simply what it means to *ME*! That's why I asked the poster what
*her* definition was.
But the "radical" part would be "from the roots, up"---so including everything, wholly and fully.
~Kelly
Kelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: zenmomma@...
>>Can I don't think there's a real and true and final word on what the phrase means.-=-=-=-
YES! And I didn't even mean to *suggest* that *I* had the answer/definition!
Mine was simply what it means to *ME*! That's why I asked the poster what
*her* definition was.
But the "radical" part would be "from the roots, up"---so including everything, wholly and fully.
~Kelly
Kelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>YES! And I didn't even mean to *suggest* that *I* had the answer/definition!Well I didn't think you were suggesting that Miss Kelly. <g> I loved your answer.
>>
--
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
Lisa H
<<Kelly wrote: It means trusting our children to be the best people they can---and knowing that they are trying to do that *all* the time.
It means respecting them as full, whole people---even as newborns and toddlers and tweens and teens---NOT just after they turn 25 or become parents themselves.
It means being patient when they aren't at that "certain point" when we or others expect them to be.>>
And taking it outside the home. These principles can apply in our relationships beyond our own children, but with all human beings.
Now wouldn't the planet be a wonderful place if everyone embraced these principles! Radical Unschooling is a truly spiritual existence.
Lisa Heyman.
(its been a while since i've posted here, just thought i'd poke my two cents in.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It means respecting them as full, whole people---even as newborns and toddlers and tweens and teens---NOT just after they turn 25 or become parents themselves.
It means being patient when they aren't at that "certain point" when we or others expect them to be.>>
And taking it outside the home. These principles can apply in our relationships beyond our own children, but with all human beings.
Now wouldn't the planet be a wonderful place if everyone embraced these principles! Radical Unschooling is a truly spiritual existence.
Lisa Heyman.
(its been a while since i've posted here, just thought i'd poke my two cents in.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
I just read this over at AU and thought Danielle really summed up what
Radical Unschooling is, in succinct way. Just wanted to share it over
here:
wuweimama wrote:
Questions? Concerns?
I think this is a common misconception, especially for those new to
RU--even the name "radical" unschoolers seems to point to the idea
that we're so radical because we not only let our kids do what ever
they want with regard to education but that we've also thrown out all
rules and limits and let them do whatever they want to do in all areas
of life.
I think the problem with that, besides the fact that no one gets to do
whatever they want to do, is that it creates real potential for
failure in family life, especially if it comes after strict control
like a pendulum swing. Then, with the ensuing chaos and lack of
consideration, parents throw up their hands and blame the crazy
radical unschooling.
Personally, the terms I find more closely allied with what we do in
our family are autonomy and organic learning. We're really not
"radical" people--well, yeah we are in some ways, but we're probably
more flaky than anything else. *bwg* Both of those terms--autonomy and
organic learning--seem to more accurately reflect the gentleness and
free-form nature of how we interact. While we don't do rules, we do
have personal limits and boundaries and preferences--*all* of us,
including the kids--and those are constantly being articulated,
negotiated and renegotiated during our lives with each other. As one
of our limits bumps up against another's desire, we have the
opportunity for learning and growing--learning about each other,
ourselves, communicating, stretching, thinking, problem-solving. That,
to me, is one of the biggest differences between living a life with
rules and living a life that respects each individual's autonomy.
Sometimes, when one person bumps up against another's personal
boundaries really hard, then the reaction can be just as dramatic.
Certainly that's no one's goal, but it occasionally happens, just as
it occasionally happens with a spouse or roommate or someone else with
whom we live in close proximity. Even these moments, however, are
opportunities to learn and grow. Maybe the person really crossed a
line and the intensity of the reaction gives them opportunity to
reflect and consider in a safe space; maybe the person who reacted was
reacting to more than the immediate situation--past situations or
issues perhaps bubbled to the surface, giving that person opportunity
to dig back and process old issues.
Communication, learning, growing, problem-solving, consideration,
respect, autonomy, flexibility, trust...these are the words that
describe our process, not "whatever."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Radical Unschooling is, in succinct way. Just wanted to share it over
here:
wuweimama wrote:
> I happened upon this old thread and wanted to reopen it forkids want to do", without the active participation. Thoughts?
> discussion. I often hear folks seeming as if RU is "whatever the
Questions? Concerns?
>Danielle Conger wrote:
I think this is a common misconception, especially for those new to
RU--even the name "radical" unschoolers seems to point to the idea
that we're so radical because we not only let our kids do what ever
they want with regard to education but that we've also thrown out all
rules and limits and let them do whatever they want to do in all areas
of life.
I think the problem with that, besides the fact that no one gets to do
whatever they want to do, is that it creates real potential for
failure in family life, especially if it comes after strict control
like a pendulum swing. Then, with the ensuing chaos and lack of
consideration, parents throw up their hands and blame the crazy
radical unschooling.
Personally, the terms I find more closely allied with what we do in
our family are autonomy and organic learning. We're really not
"radical" people--well, yeah we are in some ways, but we're probably
more flaky than anything else. *bwg* Both of those terms--autonomy and
organic learning--seem to more accurately reflect the gentleness and
free-form nature of how we interact. While we don't do rules, we do
have personal limits and boundaries and preferences--*all* of us,
including the kids--and those are constantly being articulated,
negotiated and renegotiated during our lives with each other. As one
of our limits bumps up against another's desire, we have the
opportunity for learning and growing--learning about each other,
ourselves, communicating, stretching, thinking, problem-solving. That,
to me, is one of the biggest differences between living a life with
rules and living a life that respects each individual's autonomy.
Sometimes, when one person bumps up against another's personal
boundaries really hard, then the reaction can be just as dramatic.
Certainly that's no one's goal, but it occasionally happens, just as
it occasionally happens with a spouse or roommate or someone else with
whom we live in close proximity. Even these moments, however, are
opportunities to learn and grow. Maybe the person really crossed a
line and the intensity of the reaction gives them opportunity to
reflect and consider in a safe space; maybe the person who reacted was
reacting to more than the immediate situation--past situations or
issues perhaps bubbled to the surface, giving that person opportunity
to dig back and process old issues.
Communication, learning, growing, problem-solving, consideration,
respect, autonomy, flexibility, trust...these are the words that
describe our process, not "whatever."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Deborah Greenspan
Can one radically unschool to veterinary medicine? Can a radically
unschooler go to college? Is it difficult to have to sit in a seat, or is
one more adaptable when one needs after being allowed the freedom of RU?
I'm concerned my dd will not have the skill nor the aptitude unless she goes
back into "school". Any thoughts?
All the best,
Deborah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooler go to college? Is it difficult to have to sit in a seat, or is
one more adaptable when one needs after being allowed the freedom of RU?
I'm concerned my dd will not have the skill nor the aptitude unless she goes
back into "school". Any thoughts?
All the best,
Deborah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Nov 20, 2007, at 6:59 PM, Deborah Greenspan wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/messages/27673?
threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1
you can read the whole thing. (You probably need to sign in first.)
can. Not all of them want to.
I think it's clearer to state that radical unschooling doesn't get in
the way of kids going to college. If they feel that college is a good
way to explore their interests, there isn't a reason they can't go.
that we need to train for several years to sit through lectures but
that the training is a good thing.
I think it's also sad that people believe that we learn discipline by
sitting through things we don't want to do. And that unless we're
trained through dullness that we won't ever do something we don't
want to do to get to something we do want to do.
Be aware that you -- and 99% of the people in the US -- have no
experience with people who have always had freedom from the time they
were kids. You don't know how people who've always had freedom
behave. You only know how people who have been controlled act when
given freedom. You only know how people who've been left to raise
themselves act when given freedom.
It's a wicked important realization. You can't project what you know
of human behavior onto kids who've always known freedom because you
only know the behavior of controlled humans.
If you've spent 12 years learning that lectures and textbooks are
dull and hard, then college looks like 4 more years of the same. If
you've spent 12 years exploring all sorts of different ways to learn
and college is a self-chosen way to continue exploring, then lectures
and textbooks are just a part of the package.
Kat's been taking college courses since she was 12 and hasn't had any
problems with the format. That doesn't mean that everyone will have
the same experience. Given freedom, unschoolers are free to come to
the conclusion that lectures and textbooks don't fit with their style
of learning. (Schooled kids just end up thinking they're dumb.)
the academic knowledge crammed into her (and often blissfully
forgotten!) that schooled kids have.
What will help is to get over the idea that schooling is what
colleges want or need. It's what colleges are given to work with.
Colleges mostly don't have a choice. More than kids who've been
cramming textbooks into their head for 12 years and haven't had a
chance to experience life to figure out what they want to do,
colleges like older students who've been out in the workforce, who
are clearly focused on where they want to go. Unschoolers can be like
that. Unschoolers get to explore life and figure out where their
skills lie. They go to college because that's the way they want to
explore their interests, not because it's another hoop to jump
through to get to the vague destination called "Success".
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Can one radically unschool to veterinary medicine? Can a radicallyA thread started on this topic on Nov 9. If you go here:
> unschooler go to college?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/messages/27673?
threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1
you can read the whole thing. (You probably need to sign in first.)
> Can a radicallyCan a schooler go to college? Not all of them do. Not all of them
> unschooler go to college?
can. Not all of them want to.
I think it's clearer to state that radical unschooling doesn't get in
the way of kids going to college. If they feel that college is a good
way to explore their interests, there isn't a reason they can't go.
> Is it difficult to have to sit in a seat, or isI think it's oh so common but oh so sad that people believe not only
> one more adaptable when one needs after being allowed the freedom
> of RU?
that we need to train for several years to sit through lectures but
that the training is a good thing.
I think it's also sad that people believe that we learn discipline by
sitting through things we don't want to do. And that unless we're
trained through dullness that we won't ever do something we don't
want to do to get to something we do want to do.
Be aware that you -- and 99% of the people in the US -- have no
experience with people who have always had freedom from the time they
were kids. You don't know how people who've always had freedom
behave. You only know how people who have been controlled act when
given freedom. You only know how people who've been left to raise
themselves act when given freedom.
It's a wicked important realization. You can't project what you know
of human behavior onto kids who've always known freedom because you
only know the behavior of controlled humans.
If you've spent 12 years learning that lectures and textbooks are
dull and hard, then college looks like 4 more years of the same. If
you've spent 12 years exploring all sorts of different ways to learn
and college is a self-chosen way to continue exploring, then lectures
and textbooks are just a part of the package.
Kat's been taking college courses since she was 12 and hasn't had any
problems with the format. That doesn't mean that everyone will have
the same experience. Given freedom, unschoolers are free to come to
the conclusion that lectures and textbooks don't fit with their style
of learning. (Schooled kids just end up thinking they're dumb.)
> I'm concerned my dd will not have the skill nor the aptitude unlessAt 18 she will be different than a schooled kid. She will not have
> she goes
> back into "school". Any thoughts?
the academic knowledge crammed into her (and often blissfully
forgotten!) that schooled kids have.
What will help is to get over the idea that schooling is what
colleges want or need. It's what colleges are given to work with.
Colleges mostly don't have a choice. More than kids who've been
cramming textbooks into their head for 12 years and haven't had a
chance to experience life to figure out what they want to do,
colleges like older students who've been out in the workforce, who
are clearly focused on where they want to go. Unschoolers can be like
that. Unschoolers get to explore life and figure out where their
skills lie. They go to college because that's the way they want to
explore their interests, not because it's another hoop to jump
through to get to the vague destination called "Success".
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Deborah Greenspan <dgreens1@...>
Can one radically unschool to veterinary medicine?
-=-=-=-
Yes.
-=-=-=-
Can a radically unschooler go to college?
-=-=-=-=-
Yes.
-=-=--=-
Is it difficult to have to sit in a seat, or is
one more adaptable when one needs after being allowed the freedom of
RU?
-=-=-=-=-
Worrying about sitting in a seat? Seriously?
-=-=-=-=-=-
I'm concerned my dd will not have the skill nor the aptitude unless she
goes
back into "school". Any thoughts?
-=-=-=-=-=-
Skill or aptitude for what? Chair sitting?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
From: Deborah Greenspan <dgreens1@...>
Can one radically unschool to veterinary medicine?
-=-=-=-
Yes.
-=-=-=-
Can a radically unschooler go to college?
-=-=-=-=-
Yes.
-=-=--=-
Is it difficult to have to sit in a seat, or is
one more adaptable when one needs after being allowed the freedom of
RU?
-=-=-=-=-
Worrying about sitting in a seat? Seriously?
-=-=-=-=-=-
I'm concerned my dd will not have the skill nor the aptitude unless she
goes
back into "school". Any thoughts?
-=-=-=-=-=-
Skill or aptitude for what? Chair sitting?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
Shannon Rizzo
Joyce, as usual you have a wonderfully eloquent reply that I'm putting in my
folder for when dh brings up these issues.
Thanks
Shannon R
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
folder for when dh brings up these issues.
Thanks
Shannon R
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]