Teenager
[email protected]
Hi--
I've been lurking here for some time, reading posts daily. What an education I've received! Now I need some input myself.
My son, who is currently 15, was public-schooled until two years ago. We worked an independent study program through the school district for about six months, and then filed the PSA the following school year. We "de-schooled" for about nine months or so, and have been unschooling since then. I'm happy, my son reports being happy...but yet, I'm feeling some anxiety, so I thought feedback might be warranted. My husband, a college professor, is worried that we're not "preparing our son for life" (though he won't/can't say, exactly, what that looks like), and when he brings this up, I get defensive.
A little more background: earlier on in the process, DS was "actively" interested in several things: gemology, silver, and gardening (to name a few things), and my husband was happy. However, in early September, DS got very sick with mono, and since then, he has spent the majority of his waking hours playing XBox and texting. When he's online, generally, he's chattering away with friends, so he's quite social, if not conventionally so. The rest of his time is mostly spent sleeping, and his sleep schedule, for many months now, is opposite the world's: he's in bed (I think) from about 3:30 am until about 2:30 pm (sometimes later). Just for the sake of accuracy, he says that he actually wakes up around 1:00 pm or so, but dozes/texts/thinks until he actually gets up. After rising, EVERY SINGLE DAY, he showers and dresses (which is better than me!), and then he takes care of our dogs, and then we eat together while we watch a Tivo'd TV program. Then he disappears into his room, and other than sometimes coming out for a snack, that's where he stays. He swears he's not depressed, and he doesn't seem depressed to me (I'm a lifelong depressive, so I know what it looks like!).
He has a weekly, two-hour theater/improv class that he loves, he volunteers once a week working with Vietnamese immigrants trying to get citizenship, and once or twice a week (whenever he wants) I take him to a rock-climbing gym. I look for a wide variety of potentially fun/interesting things to do and present them to him, and he (very) occasionally takes me up on one of them.
In my heart I think he's fine...somehow, he's more informed than any of the kids I have in my Sunday School class (incidentally, we do not make DS attend church or any of the functions, which is not supported by the culture, but too bad), and he's better behaved than most of them, too. The problem is that, on my husband's off days, when 3:00 pm is rolling around and DS is still in bed, my husband starts to grumble, and then I feel bad, like I'm encouraging our kid to be lazy or something. So, I put it to the group: Am I doing enough? If not, what might I do differently? Is there a perspective I haven't considered? And if there isn't anything more for me to do, how might I respond to my husband's concerns, rather than snapping that I don't see HIM doing anything to fix the situation.
(Having read what I've written, I see what's probably going on: DS is still recovering from his bout with mono! It seems like it has been FOREVER, but it hasn't...I know it can take up to a year to fully recover, or even more. Both my husband and I should have recognized this, as we each suffered from it as kids; it's just we were forced into activity much sooner than we should have been, so that's our frame of reference.)
I'm sorry this was such a long post. It has been so helpful just articulating our situation. The fact is, there is some emotional distance growing between us (my son and us, I mean)...he's 15, after all, and it's to be expected and supported. But since it's coinciding with his lack of physical strength, it sort of looks like withdrawal, rather than growth.
I do want to know if I'm missing something, or if there's something different I could be doing. I have this one child, and if he ends up a mess, I don't want it to be because of something I did or didn't do!
I've been lurking here for some time, reading posts daily. What an education I've received! Now I need some input myself.
My son, who is currently 15, was public-schooled until two years ago. We worked an independent study program through the school district for about six months, and then filed the PSA the following school year. We "de-schooled" for about nine months or so, and have been unschooling since then. I'm happy, my son reports being happy...but yet, I'm feeling some anxiety, so I thought feedback might be warranted. My husband, a college professor, is worried that we're not "preparing our son for life" (though he won't/can't say, exactly, what that looks like), and when he brings this up, I get defensive.
A little more background: earlier on in the process, DS was "actively" interested in several things: gemology, silver, and gardening (to name a few things), and my husband was happy. However, in early September, DS got very sick with mono, and since then, he has spent the majority of his waking hours playing XBox and texting. When he's online, generally, he's chattering away with friends, so he's quite social, if not conventionally so. The rest of his time is mostly spent sleeping, and his sleep schedule, for many months now, is opposite the world's: he's in bed (I think) from about 3:30 am until about 2:30 pm (sometimes later). Just for the sake of accuracy, he says that he actually wakes up around 1:00 pm or so, but dozes/texts/thinks until he actually gets up. After rising, EVERY SINGLE DAY, he showers and dresses (which is better than me!), and then he takes care of our dogs, and then we eat together while we watch a Tivo'd TV program. Then he disappears into his room, and other than sometimes coming out for a snack, that's where he stays. He swears he's not depressed, and he doesn't seem depressed to me (I'm a lifelong depressive, so I know what it looks like!).
He has a weekly, two-hour theater/improv class that he loves, he volunteers once a week working with Vietnamese immigrants trying to get citizenship, and once or twice a week (whenever he wants) I take him to a rock-climbing gym. I look for a wide variety of potentially fun/interesting things to do and present them to him, and he (very) occasionally takes me up on one of them.
In my heart I think he's fine...somehow, he's more informed than any of the kids I have in my Sunday School class (incidentally, we do not make DS attend church or any of the functions, which is not supported by the culture, but too bad), and he's better behaved than most of them, too. The problem is that, on my husband's off days, when 3:00 pm is rolling around and DS is still in bed, my husband starts to grumble, and then I feel bad, like I'm encouraging our kid to be lazy or something. So, I put it to the group: Am I doing enough? If not, what might I do differently? Is there a perspective I haven't considered? And if there isn't anything more for me to do, how might I respond to my husband's concerns, rather than snapping that I don't see HIM doing anything to fix the situation.
(Having read what I've written, I see what's probably going on: DS is still recovering from his bout with mono! It seems like it has been FOREVER, but it hasn't...I know it can take up to a year to fully recover, or even more. Both my husband and I should have recognized this, as we each suffered from it as kids; it's just we were forced into activity much sooner than we should have been, so that's our frame of reference.)
I'm sorry this was such a long post. It has been so helpful just articulating our situation. The fact is, there is some emotional distance growing between us (my son and us, I mean)...he's 15, after all, and it's to be expected and supported. But since it's coinciding with his lack of physical strength, it sort of looks like withdrawal, rather than growth.
I do want to know if I'm missing something, or if there's something different I could be doing. I have this one child, and if he ends up a mess, I don't want it to be because of something I did or didn't do!
Meredith
"sushieq@..." <susanlervold@...> wrote:
Some teens also go through a kind of "cocoon" stage, too - where they spend a lot of time sleeping and resting and doing quiet, in-drawn things. Big developmental shifts take a lot of energy! Also the teens and early twenties are big periods of existential development - young adults are pondering their place in the universe, which requires lots of quiet time.
Another issue is that deschooling isn't something which has a distinct end point. Kids can deschool some things faster than others - and parents don't really stop deschooling. Even longtime, seasoned unschoolers have bouts of "omg, what about...?" when something triggers an old memory, old experiences and messages tied up in school and socialization. The fact that you're worried about what he's doing is an example of having more deschooling to do. From the list of things your son does, he's doing substantially more than most teens when they're cocooning.
That's something to talk about with your son and maybe see if you can shift some activities around so he's up and about earlier on days dad is home. Or plan some things for father and son to do together, specifically. Don't force the issue, instead think of it as supporting their relationship - the more your husband gets to see his son as an interesting person, the less he'll worry and criticize.
It can also help to look for ways to connect with your son online - both you and your husband. That might seem odd, if you're all in the same house, but more and more relationship building happens in the venue of games and social media - its the new "going fishing" ;) And if your son is exploring more existential topics, you're more likely to connect with him on those topics by meeting him over the computer.
---Meredith
>> (Having read what I've written, I see what's probably going on: DS is still recovering from his bout with mono!*************
Some teens also go through a kind of "cocoon" stage, too - where they spend a lot of time sleeping and resting and doing quiet, in-drawn things. Big developmental shifts take a lot of energy! Also the teens and early twenties are big periods of existential development - young adults are pondering their place in the universe, which requires lots of quiet time.
Another issue is that deschooling isn't something which has a distinct end point. Kids can deschool some things faster than others - and parents don't really stop deschooling. Even longtime, seasoned unschoolers have bouts of "omg, what about...?" when something triggers an old memory, old experiences and messages tied up in school and socialization. The fact that you're worried about what he's doing is an example of having more deschooling to do. From the list of things your son does, he's doing substantially more than most teens when they're cocooning.
>The problem is that, on my husband's off days, when 3:00 pm is rolling around and DS is still in bed, my husband starts to grumble, and then I feel bad, like I'm encouraging our kid to be lazy or something.**************
That's something to talk about with your son and maybe see if you can shift some activities around so he's up and about earlier on days dad is home. Or plan some things for father and son to do together, specifically. Don't force the issue, instead think of it as supporting their relationship - the more your husband gets to see his son as an interesting person, the less he'll worry and criticize.
It can also help to look for ways to connect with your son online - both you and your husband. That might seem odd, if you're all in the same house, but more and more relationship building happens in the venue of games and social media - its the new "going fishing" ;) And if your son is exploring more existential topics, you're more likely to connect with him on those topics by meeting him over the computer.
---Meredith
Lesley Cross
The virus that causes mono is also one that is also a cause of chronic fatigue syndrome. He's a teen = needs plenty of rest. He's recovering from an illness = needs plenty of rest. You've got that full year thing spot on.
Honestly, it sounds like he's fine (aside from ongoing recovery) but that perhaps you'd like to check in and make sure HE's feeling fine about where he is, and offer support in any way you can for areas he might not be. I find those in between times the best for connecting with my teen son (now 18)....as he's making something to eat or coming through the house to get something. Often this happens as I'm getting ready to go to sleep, as it's when his day is in full swing and he's more communicative. Probably has something to do with the fact that I'm relaxed then as well....not as likely to be frustrated, distracted or ask him for help with household tasks or whatever. What I bring to the interaction, as a person and a parent, is so important!
I'm also seeing that you feel some amount of outside pressure and expectation, particularly for the results of your parenting. That can really screw up unschooling and your relationship. Your child doesn't want to be seen as a potential result and can't really thrive now if the focus is on what he'll be like in the future instead of who he is now. Sounds like there's part of you that's more concerned about your dh's opinion of your parenting (and just as likely "everyone's" opinion of your parenting) than you are with feeling rooted within yourself and focused on what your son's needs are in the here and now. That worrying about others' opinions? Not really helpful to anyone. This is not to say your dh's opinion does not matter, it does, but to be more concerned for his approval than for working WITH him to live together joyfully and to each advocate for your child in the most grounded way possible for each of you just pulls the focus away from how your son is doing right now and what he may or may not need. It has nothing to do with anyone's opinion OR potential results. That said, there seems to be a great deal of evidence in the unschooling community that focusing on the needs and desires and the "what is" in the here and now tends to lead to young adults who live satisfying, interesting (to them), and often unique lives.
Lesley
http://euphorialifedesignstudio.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Honestly, it sounds like he's fine (aside from ongoing recovery) but that perhaps you'd like to check in and make sure HE's feeling fine about where he is, and offer support in any way you can for areas he might not be. I find those in between times the best for connecting with my teen son (now 18)....as he's making something to eat or coming through the house to get something. Often this happens as I'm getting ready to go to sleep, as it's when his day is in full swing and he's more communicative. Probably has something to do with the fact that I'm relaxed then as well....not as likely to be frustrated, distracted or ask him for help with household tasks or whatever. What I bring to the interaction, as a person and a parent, is so important!
I'm also seeing that you feel some amount of outside pressure and expectation, particularly for the results of your parenting. That can really screw up unschooling and your relationship. Your child doesn't want to be seen as a potential result and can't really thrive now if the focus is on what he'll be like in the future instead of who he is now. Sounds like there's part of you that's more concerned about your dh's opinion of your parenting (and just as likely "everyone's" opinion of your parenting) than you are with feeling rooted within yourself and focused on what your son's needs are in the here and now. That worrying about others' opinions? Not really helpful to anyone. This is not to say your dh's opinion does not matter, it does, but to be more concerned for his approval than for working WITH him to live together joyfully and to each advocate for your child in the most grounded way possible for each of you just pulls the focus away from how your son is doing right now and what he may or may not need. It has nothing to do with anyone's opinion OR potential results. That said, there seems to be a great deal of evidence in the unschooling community that focusing on the needs and desires and the "what is" in the here and now tends to lead to young adults who live satisfying, interesting (to them), and often unique lives.
Lesley
http://euphorialifedesignstudio.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lesley Cross
Oh, yikes....sorry about that first sentence....edited it into oblivion. The point is, Epstein Barr virus causes both mono and chronic fatigue syndrome (not all cases of chronic fatigue, but many). Once it's in your body, it's always there, and getting it dormant is sometimes a long process.
Lesley
http://euphorialifedesignstudio.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lesley
http://euphorialifedesignstudio.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nerida
I have a friend who has twin teenage girls, who have been sick with mono since last September. They had just started at school (their choice), when they got sick. So their school experience was very brief. They were very active and were going stir crazy at home, but every time they went out and tried to do anything they got sick again. So now she insists they stay home, sleep and mess about on the computer. Their dad had an attitude about it, but he eventually realized they weren't being lazy and they really were sick. Anyway, I just wanted to point out that maybe what your son is doing is exactly what he needs to do to get well!
Nerida
Nerida
Debra Rossing
Part of it, too, may be that your husband misses spending time with your son. If hubby is at work all day and son is awake at night, they barely cross paths at all. Add in your son's health recuperation needs, and he and dad don't get to hang out much anymore. Are there ways you can keep dad "in the loop" - email photos of son at rock climbing or theater activities, have son email dad little notes overnight for dad to see first thing, that sort of stuff. I know that when my almost 15 yr old (never schooled) son gets on a totally nocturnal schedule, after a few days I start to miss him (I work fulltime so when DS is waking up at supper and going to sleep before I get up in the morning, we only have a very short time together). I'll work at reserving some late night time on weekends (Friday particularly since getting up on Sunday morning for church is important for me and hubby, we too don't require DS to attend anything but most of the time he does anyhow). If I just can't stay awake, I try to leave little notes and special snacks out for DS when he wakes.
--DebR
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[email protected]
And another bit of anecdotal info -- take it for what it's worth -- my DS, 19, is on a reverse sleep schedule. Has been for years. Unless he is getting up to go to work. Like today. He works with his Dad doing tile/marble installation. Or when he wants to go to his Tae Kwon Do. Or if something else comes up that he wants to adjust his sleeping to. He figures it out and gets up and does what he needs to do and then he adjusts back to his reversed sleep pattern, reversed from me anyway.
And he's not sick with mono or anything else. Not depressed. Not lazy. Not recovering. He's just him. And doing fine. :)
Nance
And he's not sick with mono or anything else. Not depressed. Not lazy. Not recovering. He's just him. And doing fine. :)
Nance
--- In [email protected], Nerida <rastro13@...> wrote:
>
> I have a friend who has twin teenage girls, who have been sick with mono since last September. They had just started at school (their choice), when they got sick. So their school experience was very brief. They were very active and were going stir crazy at home, but every time they went out and tried to do anything they got sick again. So now she insists they stay home, sleep and mess about on the computer. Their dad had an attitude about it, but he eventually realized they weren't being lazy and they really were sick. Anyway, I just wanted to point out that maybe what your son is doing is exactly what he needs to do to get well!
>
> Nerida
>
Ulrike Haupt
What is mono? I've never heard about so please bear with me.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Mononucleosis
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/mononucleosis/DS00352
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: Ulrike Haupt <rica@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:10 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Teenager
What is mono? I've never heard about so please bear with me.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/mononucleosis/DS00352
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: Ulrike Haupt <rica@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:10 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Teenager
What is mono? I've never heard about so please bear with me.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I very much appreciate the responses I've received.
This has been quite like a spiritual conversion: it is a walk of faith. I have the testimony that it works by people I have learned to respect and trust; I have my acquired my own faith that this process works; and I see evidence that it works, but I still have to KNOW it for myself, and that often takes time to happen. Until then, it's faith.
I will try implementing some of the suggestions I've been offered. Fortunately, my sweet husband is very patient and undemanding by nature. And, bless his heart, he trusts me. Finding ways to keep him involved (even by photos and notes, etc.) will go a long way towards settling his own worries, I bet.
It's been two years and I am still de-schooling (though de-programming is really a better word, I think). It's a pretty wild ride, feeling the disconnect between my rational mind and my emotions. It's like I KNOW what I'm doing is right, but it doesn't FEEL right (or maybe it's the other way around?). Anyway, it's interesting and scary and amazing, all at the same time. And it's constantly evolving...the two sides are getting closer together all the time, but it's not linear growth--more like two steps forward, and one step back. But it's still growth.
This has been quite like a spiritual conversion: it is a walk of faith. I have the testimony that it works by people I have learned to respect and trust; I have my acquired my own faith that this process works; and I see evidence that it works, but I still have to KNOW it for myself, and that often takes time to happen. Until then, it's faith.
I will try implementing some of the suggestions I've been offered. Fortunately, my sweet husband is very patient and undemanding by nature. And, bless his heart, he trusts me. Finding ways to keep him involved (even by photos and notes, etc.) will go a long way towards settling his own worries, I bet.
It's been two years and I am still de-schooling (though de-programming is really a better word, I think). It's a pretty wild ride, feeling the disconnect between my rational mind and my emotions. It's like I KNOW what I'm doing is right, but it doesn't FEEL right (or maybe it's the other way around?). Anyway, it's interesting and scary and amazing, all at the same time. And it's constantly evolving...the two sides are getting closer together all the time, but it's not linear growth--more like two steps forward, and one step back. But it's still growth.