feedback
Dijana Boskovic
hi all,
i recently decided to homeschool/unschool my son during the xmas break, my son is 6 years of age and because he was in school system, the school and the school board require that i fill out paper work, but i haven't because i don't want to and then, this morning i received a message from school that if i do not complete and hand in paper work, the 'truent officer' will become involved....... i still don't want want to fill out paper work.
does anyone have a similar story to share? i am totally open to feedback
and i wonder if unschooling is recognized by the school board too?
peace,
dijana
In Unity There Is Change
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i recently decided to homeschool/unschool my son during the xmas break, my son is 6 years of age and because he was in school system, the school and the school board require that i fill out paper work, but i haven't because i don't want to and then, this morning i received a message from school that if i do not complete and hand in paper work, the 'truent officer' will become involved....... i still don't want want to fill out paper work.
does anyone have a similar story to share? i am totally open to feedback
and i wonder if unschooling is recognized by the school board too?
peace,
dijana
In Unity There Is Change
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
HSlater351@...
If you are removing him from school then I assume you have to fill out
paperwork to make that official. Why wouldn't you just fill it out and get on
with your life?
Congratulations on making the change to home learning / unschooling!
In a message dated 1/22/2013 9:20:51 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
dijanakitsa@... writes:
hi all,
i recently decided to homeschool/unschool my son during the xmas break, my
son is 6 years of age and because he was in school system, the school and
the school board require that i fill out paper work, but i haven't because
i don't want to and then, this morning i received a message from school
that if i do not complete and hand in paper work, the 'truent officer' will
become involved....... i still don't want want to fill out paper work.
does anyone have a similar story to share? i am totally open to feedback
and i wonder if unschooling is recognized by the school board too?
peace,
dijana
In Unity There Is Change
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
paperwork to make that official. Why wouldn't you just fill it out and get on
with your life?
Congratulations on making the change to home learning / unschooling!
In a message dated 1/22/2013 9:20:51 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
dijanakitsa@... writes:
hi all,
i recently decided to homeschool/unschool my son during the xmas break, my
son is 6 years of age and because he was in school system, the school and
the school board require that i fill out paper work, but i haven't because
i don't want to and then, this morning i received a message from school
that if i do not complete and hand in paper work, the 'truent officer' will
become involved....... i still don't want want to fill out paper work.
does anyone have a similar story to share? i am totally open to feedback
and i wonder if unschooling is recognized by the school board too?
peace,
dijana
In Unity There Is Change
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 22, 2013, at 11:26 AM, Dijana Boskovic wrote:
People procrastinate over all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons.
I hate filling out paperwork. It always takes longer than I want it to.
Do it a step at a time. Each hour do one thing. Get an envelope. Put the address on it. Put a stamp on it. Fill in your name on the paper work. And so on. If you feel like doing more than one step, go for it.
Dealing with a truant officer is going to be WAY more of a pain than paperwork.
Find your state homeschooling or unschooling list. Ask them about how to present unschooling to them. Or search the archives at their list. It's undoubtedly a question that's been asked a hundred times.
Here's a good place to start. (The US is down at the bottom of the page.)
http://sandradodd.com/world
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> does anyone have a similar story to share? i am totally open to feedbackWill it help you fill out the paperwork if one or a dozen people say yes? Are you feeling guilty that perhaps you're the only one who has ever done this?
People procrastinate over all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons.
I hate filling out paperwork. It always takes longer than I want it to.
Do it a step at a time. Each hour do one thing. Get an envelope. Put the address on it. Put a stamp on it. Fill in your name on the paper work. And so on. If you feel like doing more than one step, go for it.
Dealing with a truant officer is going to be WAY more of a pain than paperwork.
> and i wonder if unschooling is recognized by the school board too?Don't mention unschooling. For legal purposes you're homeschooling.
Find your state homeschooling or unschooling list. Ask them about how to present unschooling to them. Or search the archives at their list. It's undoubtedly a question that's been asked a hundred times.
Here's a good place to start. (The US is down at the bottom of the page.)
http://sandradodd.com/world
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dena Morrison
I don't know where you're located, but in Texas that is the protocol.
The school has a responsibility to report long term "no attendance"
to truancy, in case of neglect, etc.
the paperwork simply removes your child from their roles, and in Texas
indicates you will be homeschooling. That prevents them for looking
for a child to be moving to a new district or whatever.
here it's a couple documents, then it's over.
No biggie.
The school has a responsibility to report long term "no attendance"
to truancy, in case of neglect, etc.
the paperwork simply removes your child from their roles, and in Texas
indicates you will be homeschooling. That prevents them for looking
for a child to be moving to a new district or whatever.
here it's a couple documents, then it's over.
No biggie.
On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 11:24 AM, <HSlater351@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> If you are removing him from school then I assume you have to fill out
> paperwork to make that official. Why wouldn't you just fill it out and get
> on
> with your life?
>
> Congratulations on making the change to home learning / unschooling!
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/22/2013 9:20:51 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> dijanakitsa@... writes:
>
> hi all,
>
> i recently decided to homeschool/unschool my son during the xmas break, my
> son is 6 years of age and because he was in school system, the school and
> the school board require that i fill out paper work, but i haven't because
> i don't want to and then, this morning i received a message from school
> that if i do not complete and hand in paper work, the 'truent officer'
> will
> become involved....... i still don't want want to fill out paper work.
>
> does anyone have a similar story to share? i am totally open to feedback
>
> and i wonder if unschooling is recognized by the school board too?
>
> peace,
>
> dijana
>
> In Unity There Is Change
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
Embracing His grace,
Dena
*Deuteronomy 28:12*
*"The LORD will open for you His good storehouse, the heavens,*
*to give rain to your land in its season and to bless all the work of your
hand;*
*
*
*
*
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mgroom85
Hey,
Sometimes school officials can make you feel like you're not making a 'smart' choice, by choosing to homeschool, especially after your child has already been in a school system. Does your choice for wanting to homeschool connect to the non-desire to have any further connection to the school and their paperwork?
I would make a guess that in the long run - filing a paper trail to remove your kiddo from the school system is a lot easier than dealing with the paperwork that would come from a truant officer.
Check out your State Laws too, if you haven't already. There may be a yearly bit of paperwork to fill out even as a homeschooler.
And if it's literally 'paper-work' that you're dreading, and not a personal feeling towards the people handing it to you... We all totally understand! Documenting things can be tedious. Unfortunately, we start dealing with paperwork the second we are born getting a birth certificate and social security card!
Hope you're able to get things evened out!
Sometimes school officials can make you feel like you're not making a 'smart' choice, by choosing to homeschool, especially after your child has already been in a school system. Does your choice for wanting to homeschool connect to the non-desire to have any further connection to the school and their paperwork?
I would make a guess that in the long run - filing a paper trail to remove your kiddo from the school system is a lot easier than dealing with the paperwork that would come from a truant officer.
Check out your State Laws too, if you haven't already. There may be a yearly bit of paperwork to fill out even as a homeschooler.
And if it's literally 'paper-work' that you're dreading, and not a personal feeling towards the people handing it to you... We all totally understand! Documenting things can be tedious. Unfortunately, we start dealing with paperwork the second we are born getting a birth certificate and social security card!
Hope you're able to get things evened out!
--- In [email protected], Dijana Boskovic wrote:
>
> hi all,
>
>
> i recently decided to homeschool/unschool my son during the xmas break, my son is 6 years of age and because he was in school system, the school and the school board require that i fill out paper work, but i haven't because i don't want to and then, this morning i received a message from school that if i do not complete and hand in paper work, the 'truent officer' will become involved....... i still don't want want to fill out paper work.
>
> does anyone have a similar story to share? i am totally open to feedback
>
> and i wonder if unschooling is recognized by the school board too?
>
>
> peace,
>
> dijana
>
> In Unity There Is Change
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Meredith
Dijana Boskovic wrote:
Welcome to homeschooling! It takes awhile to get your feet under you, so don't worry if you feel lost at first. The most important thing for you to do in terms of legalities and procedures is to do some research. You need to know the law for your state/province/territory And you need to know the ways other homeschoolers deal with that law - what the important loopholes are - so you don't make more work for yourself.
A good, general website to start researching home-ed is A to Z's Home's Cool:
http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/
It's a huge site with a ton of information.
Chances are what the School needs is some kind of notice that you've withdrawn your child from that school - where I live it's a "transfer" form, as though we were moving from one school to another. Otherwise, the school is obligated to report your child as truant. That's not a small charge - in some places it's grounds to be investigated by Child Services... because some parents keep kids out of school to hide evidence of abuse.
The first thing to find out is how long you have to submit the withdrawal forms - often it's something like 30 days, but Look it Up! Depending on where you live, there may be other paperwork to submit along with the withdrawal form - but that varies really widely And depends on the local loopholes. If you're going to register as a homeschooler, you may need to submit some kind of learning plan - but if you have the option of using an umbrella program or charter, or declaring yourself a private school then that won't apply to you because technically you won't Be a homeschooler, even though you'll be homeschooling.
Confused yet? This is why it's important to know they law And contact local homeschoolers to find out what they do. Many homeschoolers in the US, for instance, are registered as belonging to some kind of private school and so the homeschool laws don't apply. It's a Big, useful loophole! But it's not available everywhere.
Some homeschoolers do go the route of civil disobedience by refusing to submit annual reports or whatever. That might be an option for you at some point, but maybe not right now. You Do need to reassure the local authorities that you're not a neglectful, abusive parent who is keeping your child out of school to hide what you're doing at home.
---Meredith
> i recently decided to homeschool/unschool my son during the xmas break************
Welcome to homeschooling! It takes awhile to get your feet under you, so don't worry if you feel lost at first. The most important thing for you to do in terms of legalities and procedures is to do some research. You need to know the law for your state/province/territory And you need to know the ways other homeschoolers deal with that law - what the important loopholes are - so you don't make more work for yourself.
A good, general website to start researching home-ed is A to Z's Home's Cool:
http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/
It's a huge site with a ton of information.
>> my son is 6 years of age and because he was in school system, the school and the school board require that i fill out paper work******************
Chances are what the School needs is some kind of notice that you've withdrawn your child from that school - where I live it's a "transfer" form, as though we were moving from one school to another. Otherwise, the school is obligated to report your child as truant. That's not a small charge - in some places it's grounds to be investigated by Child Services... because some parents keep kids out of school to hide evidence of abuse.
The first thing to find out is how long you have to submit the withdrawal forms - often it's something like 30 days, but Look it Up! Depending on where you live, there may be other paperwork to submit along with the withdrawal form - but that varies really widely And depends on the local loopholes. If you're going to register as a homeschooler, you may need to submit some kind of learning plan - but if you have the option of using an umbrella program or charter, or declaring yourself a private school then that won't apply to you because technically you won't Be a homeschooler, even though you'll be homeschooling.
Confused yet? This is why it's important to know they law And contact local homeschoolers to find out what they do. Many homeschoolers in the US, for instance, are registered as belonging to some kind of private school and so the homeschool laws don't apply. It's a Big, useful loophole! But it's not available everywhere.
> and i wonder if unschooling is recognized by the school board too?Unschooling is a kind of homeschooling as far as The Powers That Be are concerned. Don't give them one jot more information than you have to! Also, don't ask the school board anything about homeschooling other than "are the forms online or do I get them from you?". School professionals generally know little to nothing about homeschooling and will misinform you - maybe innocently, maybe in an attempt to intimidate you. If you need to deal with school board professionals directly, get some advice from other homeschoolers in your area first, so you know what to say, and to whom.
Some homeschoolers do go the route of civil disobedience by refusing to submit annual reports or whatever. That might be an option for you at some point, but maybe not right now. You Do need to reassure the local authorities that you're not a neglectful, abusive parent who is keeping your child out of school to hide what you're doing at home.
---Meredith
Mandy Taylor
In the state of Arizona you are requires to fill out an Affidavit of Intent with the state once you decide to homeschool/unschool. This is a one time event and is never required again (unless of course you move to another state). Of course each state is different and you must check with the local county school district. Also take a look at signing up with www.hslda.org as once you pay for your membership they can offer services if you are being harassed by the school.
If you do not fill out the form your
child is recognized as a responsibility of the state and therefore gives the school permission to send out the officer.
Good luck with your new journey! It really is wonderful once you begin :)
Mandy
Sent from my iPhone
If you do not fill out the form your
child is recognized as a responsibility of the state and therefore gives the school permission to send out the officer.
Good luck with your new journey! It really is wonderful once you begin :)
Mandy
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 22, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Dena Morrison <morrjoy2012@...> wrote:
> I don't know where you're located, but in Texas that is the protocol.
> The school has a responsibility to report long term "no attendance"
> to truancy, in case of neglect, etc.
> the paperwork simply removes your child from their roles, and in Texas
> indicates you will be homeschooling. That prevents them for looking
> for a child to be moving to a new district or whatever.
> here it's a couple documents, then it's over.
> No biggie.
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 11:24 AM, HSlater351@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > If you are removing him from school then I assume you have to fill out
> > paperwork to make that official. Why wouldn't you just fill it out and get
> > on
> > with your life?
> >
> > Congratulations on making the change to home learning / unschooling!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/22/2013 9:20:51 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > dijanakitsa@... writes:
> >
> > hi all,
> >
> > i recently decided to homeschool/unschool my son during the xmas break, my
> > son is 6 years of age and because he was in school system, the school and
> > the school board require that i fill out paper work, but i haven't because
> > i don't want to and then, this morning i received a message from school
> > that if i do not complete and hand in paper work, the 'truent officer'
> > will
> > become involved....... i still don't want want to fill out paper work.
> >
> > does anyone have a similar story to share? i am totally open to feedback
> >
> > and i wonder if unschooling is recognized by the school board too?
> >
> > peace,
> >
> > dijana
> >
> > In Unity There Is Change
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Embracing His grace,
> Dena
>
> *Deuteronomy 28:12*
> *"The LORD will open for you His good storehouse, the heavens,*
> *to give rain to your land in its season and to bless all the work of your
> hand;*
> *
> *
> *
> *
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dijana Boskovic
thank you mgroom85
if i wanted to be connected to the school, i would have not made decision to home school my son.
anyhow, i typed a letter and sent to the school principle and superintendent, so i will see how they respond.......
i don't mind filling out paper work, if i agree to the paper work, but in this case, i see that it is unnecessary to complete paper work, one form is the 'notice of intent form' that requires my signature and by signing, i 'accept full responsibility for providing home schooling in compliance with the education act'.
and the second form is titled 'home schooling investigation form', which is 4 pages and asks of me to fill out all sections that inquire about 'program planning', 'instructional program' (gives school board info. about the curriculum that i follow), and once i provide all information and other information, the board will determine whether my instruction is satisfactory.......
i have attached the letter that i sent to school principle and superintendent.
and what is very interesting is that if a family does not have their child in the school system, the school board does not know that this child exists....... these kids are under the radar so to speak.......
when i feel uneasy about things, i like to come to terms with my feelings instead of just doing as i am told :) and these forms are intrusive and fear based to say the least.
peace,
dijana
dijanakitsa@...
________________________________
From: mgroom85 <meghorvath85@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:01 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: feedback
Hey,
Sometimes school officials can make you feel like you're not making a 'smart' choice, by choosing to homeschool, especially after your child has already been in a school system. Does your choice for wanting to homeschool connect to the non-desire to have any further connection to the school and their paperwork?
I would make a guess that in the long run - filing a paper trail to remove your kiddo from the school system is a lot easier than dealing with the paperwork that would come from a truant officer.
Check out your State Laws too, if you haven't already. There may be a yearly bit of paperwork to fill out even as a homeschooler.
And if it's literally 'paper-work' that you're dreading, and not a personal feeling towards the people handing it to you... We all totally understand! Documenting things can be tedious. Unfortunately, we start dealing with paperwork the second we are born getting a birth certificate and social security card!
Hope you're able to get things evened out!
if i wanted to be connected to the school, i would have not made decision to home school my son.
anyhow, i typed a letter and sent to the school principle and superintendent, so i will see how they respond.......
i don't mind filling out paper work, if i agree to the paper work, but in this case, i see that it is unnecessary to complete paper work, one form is the 'notice of intent form' that requires my signature and by signing, i 'accept full responsibility for providing home schooling in compliance with the education act'.
and the second form is titled 'home schooling investigation form', which is 4 pages and asks of me to fill out all sections that inquire about 'program planning', 'instructional program' (gives school board info. about the curriculum that i follow), and once i provide all information and other information, the board will determine whether my instruction is satisfactory.......
i have attached the letter that i sent to school principle and superintendent.
and what is very interesting is that if a family does not have their child in the school system, the school board does not know that this child exists....... these kids are under the radar so to speak.......
when i feel uneasy about things, i like to come to terms with my feelings instead of just doing as i am told :) and these forms are intrusive and fear based to say the least.
peace,
dijana
dijanakitsa@...
________________________________
From: mgroom85 <meghorvath85@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:01 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: feedback
Hey,
Sometimes school officials can make you feel like you're not making a 'smart' choice, by choosing to homeschool, especially after your child has already been in a school system. Does your choice for wanting to homeschool connect to the non-desire to have any further connection to the school and their paperwork?
I would make a guess that in the long run - filing a paper trail to remove your kiddo from the school system is a lot easier than dealing with the paperwork that would come from a truant officer.
Check out your State Laws too, if you haven't already. There may be a yearly bit of paperwork to fill out even as a homeschooler.
And if it's literally 'paper-work' that you're dreading, and not a personal feeling towards the people handing it to you... We all totally understand! Documenting things can be tedious. Unfortunately, we start dealing with paperwork the second we are born getting a birth certificate and social security card!
Hope you're able to get things evened out!
--- In [email protected], Dijana Boskovic wrote:
>
> hi all,
>
>
> i recently decided to homeschool/unschool my son during the xmas break, my son is 6 years of age and because he was in school system, the school and the school board require that i fill out paper work, but i haven't because i don't want to and then, this morning i received a message from school that if i do not complete and hand in paper work, the 'truent officer' will become involved....... i still don't want want to fill out paper work.
>
> does anyone have a similar story to share? i am totally open to feedback
>
> and i wonder if unschooling is recognized by the school board too?
>
>
> peace,
>
> dijana
>
> In Unity There Is Change
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
What state are you in?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Dijana Boskovic <dijanakitsa@...>
thank you mgroom85
if i wanted to be connected to the school, i would have not made decision to
home school my son.
anyhow, i typed a letter and sent to the school principle and superintendent, so
i will see how they respond.......
i don't mind filling out paper work, if i agree to the paper work, but in this
case, i see that it is unnecessary to complete paper work, one form is the
'notice of intent form' that requires my signature and by signing, i 'accept
full responsibility for providing home schooling in compliance with the
education act'.
and the second form is titled 'home schooling investigation form', which is 4
pages and asks of me to fill out all sections that inquire about 'program
planning', 'instructional program' (gives school board info. about the
curriculum that i follow), and once i provide all information and other
information, the board will determine whether my instruction is
satisfactory.......
i have attached the letter that i sent to school principle and superintendent.
and what is very interesting is that if a family does not have their child in
the school system, the school board does not know that this child exists.......
these kids are under the radar so to speak.......
when i feel uneasy about things, i like to come to terms with my feelings
instead of just doing as i am told :) and these forms are intrusive and fear
based to say the least.
peace,
dijana
dijanakitsa@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Dijana Boskovic <dijanakitsa@...>
thank you mgroom85
if i wanted to be connected to the school, i would have not made decision to
home school my son.
anyhow, i typed a letter and sent to the school principle and superintendent, so
i will see how they respond.......
i don't mind filling out paper work, if i agree to the paper work, but in this
case, i see that it is unnecessary to complete paper work, one form is the
'notice of intent form' that requires my signature and by signing, i 'accept
full responsibility for providing home schooling in compliance with the
education act'.
and the second form is titled 'home schooling investigation form', which is 4
pages and asks of me to fill out all sections that inquire about 'program
planning', 'instructional program' (gives school board info. about the
curriculum that i follow), and once i provide all information and other
information, the board will determine whether my instruction is
satisfactory.......
i have attached the letter that i sent to school principle and superintendent.
and what is very interesting is that if a family does not have their child in
the school system, the school board does not know that this child exists.......
these kids are under the radar so to speak.......
when i feel uneasy about things, i like to come to terms with my feelings
instead of just doing as i am told :) and these forms are intrusive and fear
based to say the least.
peace,
dijana
dijanakitsa@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dijana Boskovic
i live in kitchener ontario, canada
i already sent a letter to the school principle and superintendent, i did not fill out any forms because i feel it is unnecessary.......
i already sent a letter to the school principle and superintendent, i did not fill out any forms because i feel it is unnecessary.......
Kelly Lovejoy
Nonononono! You absolutely do NOT need to align yourself with H$LDA.
Homeschooling is legal is ALL 50 states. You need H$LDA for NOTHING.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Mandy Taylor <msmandytaylor@...>
Also take a look at signing up with www.hslda.org as once you pay for
your membership they can offer services if you are being harassed by the school.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Homeschooling is legal is ALL 50 states. You need H$LDA for NOTHING.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Mandy Taylor <msmandytaylor@...>
Also take a look at signing up with www.hslda.org as once you pay for
your membership they can offer services if you are being harassed by the school.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Mandy Taylor wrote:
HSLDA takes on cases that further their Christian agenda. Anything they believe might harm that, they'll turn down. Even if someone has paid their dues. And they really don't like unschoolers. They think unschooling is too likely to call unwanted government attention on homeschoolers.
Much much better to rely on the homeschoolers in your own state whose agenda is homeschooling!
The National Home Educators Network is a good place to start. They have summaries and links:
http://nhen.org/state-pages/state_homeschooling_information_2.html
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Also take a look at signing up withwww.hslda.org as once you payREALLY bad idea to sign up with HSLDA. *Especially* if you're an unschooler.
> for your membership they can offer services if you are being harassed by the school.
HSLDA takes on cases that further their Christian agenda. Anything they believe might harm that, they'll turn down. Even if someone has paid their dues. And they really don't like unschoolers. They think unschooling is too likely to call unwanted government attention on homeschoolers.
Much much better to rely on the homeschoolers in your own state whose agenda is homeschooling!
The National Home Educators Network is a good place to start. They have summaries and links:
http://nhen.org/state-pages/state_homeschooling_information_2.html
> If you do not fill out the form yourI doubt that! Not filling out the form will call attention from Social Services as they investigate whether the parents are being responsible or not. At some point the state might take over, but not filling out the form won't do it.
> child is recognized as a responsibility of the state
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 22, 2013, at 5:13 PM, Dijana Boskovic wrote:
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> when i feel uneasy about things, i like to come to termsWhich can be noble -- if no one is depending on you. Your first responsibility should be to your child not your feelings. Unlike the instructions on the plane ;-) see to your child's happiness and welfare first, *then* sort out your feelings.
> with my feelings instead of just doing as i am told :)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mandy Taylor
Joyce,
Can you send me a few links with show HSLDA will not help if you are not Christian? Because I have not had that experience with them.
They have been extremely helpful in educating on local and global issues on laws pertaining to education and have answered all my legs questions swiftly as there are separate laws for each state.
As for forms, I made myself clear that each state has its own laws. Truant officers are employees of the state and therefore their responsibility.
Best,
Mandy
Sent from my iPhone
Can you send me a few links with show HSLDA will not help if you are not Christian? Because I have not had that experience with them.
They have been extremely helpful in educating on local and global issues on laws pertaining to education and have answered all my legs questions swiftly as there are separate laws for each state.
As for forms, I made myself clear that each state has its own laws. Truant officers are employees of the state and therefore their responsibility.
Best,
Mandy
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 22, 2013, at 3:38 PM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Mandy Taylor wrote:
>
> > Also take a look at signing up withwww.hslda.org as once you pay
> > for your membership they can offer services if you are being harassed by the school.
>
> REALLY bad idea to sign up with HSLDA. *Especially* if you're an unschooler.
>
> HSLDA takes on cases that further their Christian agenda. Anything they believe might harm that, they'll turn down. Even if someone has paid their dues. And they really don't like unschoolers. They think unschooling is too likely to call unwanted government attention on homeschoolers.
>
> Much much better to rely on the homeschoolers in your own state whose agenda is homeschooling!
>
> The National Home Educators Network is a good place to start. They have summaries and links:
>
> http://nhen.org/state-pages/state_homeschooling_information_2.html
>
> > If you do not fill out the form your
> > child is recognized as a responsibility of the state
>
> I doubt that! Not filling out the form will call attention from Social Services as they investigate whether the parents are being responsible or not. At some point the state might take over, but not filling out the form won't do it.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Dijana Boskovic wrote:
Sometimes it's a lot easier to jump through one little hoop, though - it makes you invisible to "the System" in a way, just one more set of papers to file.
Unschooling isn't the easiest kind of home-ed to describe or define, and to most people it looks crazy - like wishful thinking at best or neglect at worse. It's generally easier, when dealing with the legalities, to put "unschooling" in terms which are comfortable and friendly to the people you're dealing with. If you (general you, not specific) are in the position of needing to describe a "curriculum" or learning plan, heres a page with some samples of what others have done and some links to useful resources:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
I don't think it's listed there, but when Ray was still unschooling (he's 19), he was registered with an "umbrella school" which was unschooling-friendly but did require a semi-annual "learning plan". What I did - and later his bio mom took over - was to list what he had been doing for the Last six months as his "learning plan" for the next. That way I wasn't guessing the future and he always "met his goals".
Depending on where you live, though, it could be easier to opt for some kind of regular testing. I know that might sound counter-intuitive, but in some places nothing happens with the test results - nothing! And even in places where there's some kind of assessment you may be able to self-administer the test and look up answers. This is why it's important to connect with other homeschoolers in your area! They'll know what's least intrusive. And don't hesitate to check with radical Christian homeschoolers, even if you're not homeschooling for religious reasons - they Often know the Least intrusive reporting option and can be a useful source of information in that regard.
I think you're expending way more energy fighting the system than you would filling out a few pieces of paper and putting them in the mail. That's one of the common results of living with a lot of rules and limits - you end up investing an amazing amount of personal energy in resisting or fighting or struggling to claim some kind of sense of self. It's an important idea to carry into your relationship with your child, because to your child You're "the System" - you're the one who has the ability to set rules and limits, and it's possible to create exactly the same kind of dynamic at home that you're fighting against wrt the school.
Do whatever gets the Powers That Be off your back the soonest - that will make your life at home with your child more peaceful and let you focus on what's important.
---Meredith
>> i don't mind filling out paper work, if i agree to the paper work, but in this case, i see that it is unnecessary to complete paper work******************
Sometimes it's a lot easier to jump through one little hoop, though - it makes you invisible to "the System" in a way, just one more set of papers to file.
Unschooling isn't the easiest kind of home-ed to describe or define, and to most people it looks crazy - like wishful thinking at best or neglect at worse. It's generally easier, when dealing with the legalities, to put "unschooling" in terms which are comfortable and friendly to the people you're dealing with. If you (general you, not specific) are in the position of needing to describe a "curriculum" or learning plan, heres a page with some samples of what others have done and some links to useful resources:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
I don't think it's listed there, but when Ray was still unschooling (he's 19), he was registered with an "umbrella school" which was unschooling-friendly but did require a semi-annual "learning plan". What I did - and later his bio mom took over - was to list what he had been doing for the Last six months as his "learning plan" for the next. That way I wasn't guessing the future and he always "met his goals".
Depending on where you live, though, it could be easier to opt for some kind of regular testing. I know that might sound counter-intuitive, but in some places nothing happens with the test results - nothing! And even in places where there's some kind of assessment you may be able to self-administer the test and look up answers. This is why it's important to connect with other homeschoolers in your area! They'll know what's least intrusive. And don't hesitate to check with radical Christian homeschoolers, even if you're not homeschooling for religious reasons - they Often know the Least intrusive reporting option and can be a useful source of information in that regard.
>> these forms are intrusive and fear based to say the least.The forms themselves are just pieces of paper ;)
I think you're expending way more energy fighting the system than you would filling out a few pieces of paper and putting them in the mail. That's one of the common results of living with a lot of rules and limits - you end up investing an amazing amount of personal energy in resisting or fighting or struggling to claim some kind of sense of self. It's an important idea to carry into your relationship with your child, because to your child You're "the System" - you're the one who has the ability to set rules and limits, and it's possible to create exactly the same kind of dynamic at home that you're fighting against wrt the school.
Do whatever gets the Powers That Be off your back the soonest - that will make your life at home with your child more peaceful and let you focus on what's important.
---Meredith
Lesley Cross
When it comes down to it legally, what you find necessary is not relevant. You need to find out what the law requires in your area and abide by it. There are often workarounds, etc... however an outright act of civil disobedience can have the exact opposite effect of what you want...if what you truly want is to educate your child as you see fit (or better, allow him to be educated how he sees fit).
Lesley
http://euphorialifedesignstudio.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lesley
http://euphorialifedesignstudio.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
>> That's one of the common results of living with a lot of rules and limits - you end up investing an amazing amount of personal energy in resisting or fighting or struggling to claim some kind of sense of self.**************
I also find it interesting that a lot of unschooled kids don't have nearly as much trouble with rules and procedures. They're used to thoughtful decision-making because they've been surrounded by it - not knee jerk "you're supposed to" on the one hand and "I won't" on the other, but seeing parents think things through, back up and re-do, change their minds, appologize, re-think, research, question, and look for options and alternatives. That kind of thoughtful decision making is one of the big factors which allows unschooling to work.
It's especially interesting to me because I've heard soooooo many times (from my dad in particular) that "kids need to learn to deal with the system so they know how to deal with beauracracy". I know plenty of schooled adults who come unglued when they have to fill out a form, while my daughter, who has never been schooled, never taken a test or filled out a worksheet, has done a number of things where she needed to fill out paperwork - and She was happy to fill out the paperwork with just a little help from me or George. Those have been some of my "so there!" moments - no, my kid didn't need to suffer under a beauracracy to know how to deal with one, not at all.
---Meredith
Jo-Anna Brereton
Hello,
I recently moved my my family from Kitchener to Newfoundland, and I have got o say, it was waaaaaaay easier in Kitchener.
Unless you are under investigation I believe that all you have to do is sign the letter of intent to homeschool. At that point they pretty much wash their hands of you, as you state that you accept full responsibility for your childs education. They do not butt into how you homeschool, they do not care. One of the best provinces to unschool in. Then next year you simply sign the form again. And the next. And the next.
I remember that pretty much unless you are reported for child neglect that they leave you alone. So I suggest trying to get along with the school, sign your paper, and get out. The cant ask you to do more then that unless they are given significant reason to do, and have no legal right otherwise.
In Ontario it is mostly provincial rules, and a lot of the actual schools have no idea what they are and are not allowed to do. So look up the regulations, and know your rights.
I intend to move back to Ontario at some point. Where I am I have to do an interview, and be approved not only as a homeschool teacher, but have to follow yearly provincial outcomes. In addition to all that I have three yearly interviews where they have to see what we are doing, and a portfolio of her work. If I don't comply I get refused for homeschool and she is mandatory placed in school. Yuck. Much harder.
Good luck.
Sent from my iPad
I recently moved my my family from Kitchener to Newfoundland, and I have got o say, it was waaaaaaay easier in Kitchener.
Unless you are under investigation I believe that all you have to do is sign the letter of intent to homeschool. At that point they pretty much wash their hands of you, as you state that you accept full responsibility for your childs education. They do not butt into how you homeschool, they do not care. One of the best provinces to unschool in. Then next year you simply sign the form again. And the next. And the next.
I remember that pretty much unless you are reported for child neglect that they leave you alone. So I suggest trying to get along with the school, sign your paper, and get out. The cant ask you to do more then that unless they are given significant reason to do, and have no legal right otherwise.
In Ontario it is mostly provincial rules, and a lot of the actual schools have no idea what they are and are not allowed to do. So look up the regulations, and know your rights.
I intend to move back to Ontario at some point. Where I am I have to do an interview, and be approved not only as a homeschool teacher, but have to follow yearly provincial outcomes. In addition to all that I have three yearly interviews where they have to see what we are doing, and a portfolio of her work. If I don't comply I get refused for homeschool and she is mandatory placed in school. Yuck. Much harder.
Good luck.
Sent from my iPad
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 22, 2013, at 5:49 PM, Mandy Taylor wrote:
Here's a wealth of information about HSLDA:
http://hsislegal.com
There is absolutely no reason a homeschoolers needs HSLDA. There are plenty of other ways to get help that don't involve their politics.
The founder and head of HSLDA is Michael Farris. He is heavily involved in politics and the Christian groups responsible for the Christian agenda getting entwined in the Republican party. He founded Patrick Henry College, partially funded by HSLDA dues before enough homeschoolers objected. The college was founded to train fundamentalist Christian homeschoolers in politics. HSLDA headquarters is on the Patrick Henry campus. Here's a bit from Wikipedia:
http://goo.gl/SL1g7
He's a Reconstructionist. HSLDA and the college are his babies and as much involved with the Reconstructionist movement as he is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Can you send me a few links with show HSLDA will not help if you are not Christian?I didn't say they wouldn't help non-Christians. I said they have a Christian agenda, meaning they have goals built around their faith. They're a fundamentalist Christian organization. They won't take on a case if they believe it will interfere with what they believe is best for their particular flavor of Christian fundamentalist homeschoolers.
Here's a wealth of information about HSLDA:
http://hsislegal.com
There is absolutely no reason a homeschoolers needs HSLDA. There are plenty of other ways to get help that don't involve their politics.
The founder and head of HSLDA is Michael Farris. He is heavily involved in politics and the Christian groups responsible for the Christian agenda getting entwined in the Republican party. He founded Patrick Henry College, partially funded by HSLDA dues before enough homeschoolers objected. The college was founded to train fundamentalist Christian homeschoolers in politics. HSLDA headquarters is on the Patrick Henry campus. Here's a bit from Wikipedia:
> All students must sign a "Statement of Faith" before they arrive, affirming belief in what the college considers core Christian doctrines. For example, students are asked to acknowledge "Satan exists as a personal, malevolent being who acts as tempter and accuser, for whom Hell, the place of eternal punishment, was prepared, where all who die outside of Christ shall be confined in conscious torment for eternity", and "Christ's death provides substitutionary atonement for our sins." The college professes non-denominational Christian beliefs.And
>
> Teaching faculty must also sign the "Statement of Faith", plus a more detailed "Statement of Biblical Worldview", which represents the college's requirements for what should be taught. For example the Biblical Worldview Applications states that, "Any biology, Bible, or other courses at PHC dealing with creation will teach creation from the understanding of Scripture that God's creative work, as described in Genesis 1:1�31, was completed in six twenty-four-hour days." New Scientist has claimed that Patrick Henry College and the homeschooling community in general were "possibly threatening the public school system that has fought hard against imposing a Christian viewpoint on science teaching."
>
> In an interview with Fresh Air on National Public Radio, PHC founder Michael Farris commented that the college held the view that its faith was the only true faith ("We believe that there is truth and there is error."), and he expressed disapproval of religious and social toleration. "Tolerance cannot coexist with liberty" because "the crowd of tolerance wants to ban speech."
> Political viewsThis should take you to a Google Translated copy of the article from De Zeit:
> Patrick Henry College has been criticized for what some see as extreme conservatism and evangelical Christian ethos, including creationism, by many newspapers such as theNew Zealand Herald and New Scientist. The school has also been criticized for an alleged Republican bias. Janet Ashcroft, wife of John Ashcroft, serves on the Board of Trustees. This has prompted the British newspaper The Independent to dub Patrick Henry College "The Bible College That Leads to the White House." The German newspaper Die Zeit criticised the college of influencing the niches with their own values and undercutting the society.
http://goo.gl/SL1g7
He's a Reconstructionist. HSLDA and the college are his babies and as much involved with the Reconstructionist movement as he is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism
> Influence on the Christian Right in generalUnless you're a Reconstructionist, there are plenty of better ways to spend your money.
>
> Main article: Dominionism
>
> Although relatively insignificant in terms of the number of self-described adherents, Christian Reconstructionism has played a role in promoting the trend toward explicitly Christian politics in the larger U.S. Christian Right. This is the wider trend to which some critics refer, generally, as Dominionism. They also allegedly have influence disproportionate to their numbers among the advocates of the growth of the Christian homeschooling and other Christian education movements that seek independence from the direct oversight or support of the civil government. Because their numbers are so small compared to their influence, they are sometimes accused of being secretive and conspiratorial.They deny this, noting they have published thousands of newsletters and hundreds of books.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 22, 2013, at 5:49 PM, Mandy Taylor wrote:
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Truant officers are employees of the state and therefore their responsibility.They're responsible for carrying out their task to investigate parents who aren't making sure their kids get to school. They aren't responsible for the kids. Those are two very different things!
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dijana Boskovic
thank you so much meredith, you have been more than helpful :)))))))
________________________________
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 6:33 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: feedback
Dijana Boskovic wrote:
Sometimes it's a lot easier to jump through one little hoop, though - it makes you invisible to "the System" in a way, just one more set of papers to file.
Unschooling isn't the easiest kind of home-ed to describe or define, and to most people it looks crazy - like wishful thinking at best or neglect at worse. It's generally easier, when dealing with the legalities, to put "unschooling" in terms which are comfortable and friendly to the people you're dealing with. If you (general you, not specific) are in the position of needing to describe a "curriculum" or learning plan, heres a page with some samples of what others have done and some links to useful resources:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
I don't think it's listed there, but when Ray was still unschooling (he's 19), he was registered with an "umbrella school" which was unschooling-friendly but did require a semi-annual "learning plan". What I did - and later his bio mom took over - was to list what he had been doing for the Last six months as his "learning plan" for the next. That way I wasn't guessing the future and he always "met his goals".
Depending on where you live, though, it could be easier to opt for some kind of regular testing. I know that might sound counter-intuitive, but in some places nothing happens with the test results - nothing! And even in places where there's some kind of assessment you may be able to self-administer the test and look up answers. This is why it's important to connect with other homeschoolers in your area! They'll know what's least intrusive. And don't hesitate to check with radical Christian homeschoolers, even if you're not homeschooling for religious reasons - they Often know the Least intrusive reporting option and can be a useful source of information in that regard.
I think you're expending way more energy fighting the system than you would filling out a few pieces of paper and putting them in the mail. That's one of the common results of living with a lot of rules and limits - you end up investing an amazing amount of personal energy in resisting or fighting or struggling to claim some kind of sense of self. It's an important idea to carry into your relationship with your child, because to your child You're "the System" - you're the one who has the ability to set rules and limits, and it's possible to create exactly the same kind of dynamic at home that you're fighting against wrt the school.
Do whatever gets the Powers That Be off your back the soonest - that will make your life at home with your child more peaceful and let you focus on what's important.
---Meredith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 6:33 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: feedback
Dijana Boskovic wrote:
>> i don't mind filling out paper work, if i agree to the paper work, but in this case, i see that it is unnecessary to complete paper work******************
Sometimes it's a lot easier to jump through one little hoop, though - it makes you invisible to "the System" in a way, just one more set of papers to file.
Unschooling isn't the easiest kind of home-ed to describe or define, and to most people it looks crazy - like wishful thinking at best or neglect at worse. It's generally easier, when dealing with the legalities, to put "unschooling" in terms which are comfortable and friendly to the people you're dealing with. If you (general you, not specific) are in the position of needing to describe a "curriculum" or learning plan, heres a page with some samples of what others have done and some links to useful resources:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
I don't think it's listed there, but when Ray was still unschooling (he's 19), he was registered with an "umbrella school" which was unschooling-friendly but did require a semi-annual "learning plan". What I did - and later his bio mom took over - was to list what he had been doing for the Last six months as his "learning plan" for the next. That way I wasn't guessing the future and he always "met his goals".
Depending on where you live, though, it could be easier to opt for some kind of regular testing. I know that might sound counter-intuitive, but in some places nothing happens with the test results - nothing! And even in places where there's some kind of assessment you may be able to self-administer the test and look up answers. This is why it's important to connect with other homeschoolers in your area! They'll know what's least intrusive. And don't hesitate to check with radical Christian homeschoolers, even if you're not homeschooling for religious reasons - they Often know the Least intrusive reporting option and can be a useful source of information in that regard.
>> these forms are intrusive and fear based to say the least.The forms themselves are just pieces of paper ;)
I think you're expending way more energy fighting the system than you would filling out a few pieces of paper and putting them in the mail. That's one of the common results of living with a lot of rules and limits - you end up investing an amazing amount of personal energy in resisting or fighting or struggling to claim some kind of sense of self. It's an important idea to carry into your relationship with your child, because to your child You're "the System" - you're the one who has the ability to set rules and limits, and it's possible to create exactly the same kind of dynamic at home that you're fighting against wrt the school.
Do whatever gets the Powers That Be off your back the soonest - that will make your life at home with your child more peaceful and let you focus on what's important.
---Meredith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dijana Boskovic
thank you for your response leslie and thank you for sharing your website too !
________________________________
From: Lesley Cross <lesleycross@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: feedback
When it comes down to it legally, what you find necessary is not relevant. You need to find out what the law requires in your area and abide by it. There are often workarounds, etc... however an outright act of civil disobedience can have the exact opposite effect of what you want...if what you truly want is to educate your child as you see fit (or better, allow him to be educated how he sees fit).
Lesley
http://euphorialifedesignstudio.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________
From: Lesley Cross <lesleycross@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: feedback
When it comes down to it legally, what you find necessary is not relevant. You need to find out what the law requires in your area and abide by it. There are often workarounds, etc... however an outright act of civil disobedience can have the exact opposite effect of what you want...if what you truly want is to educate your child as you see fit (or better, allow him to be educated how he sees fit).
Lesley
http://euphorialifedesignstudio.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dijana Boskovic
thanks again for sharing your experiences and words of wisdom, i feel very lucky to learn this way (sharing via email), have a good night :)
________________________________
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:50 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: feedback
I also find it interesting that a lot of unschooled kids don't have nearly as much trouble with rules and procedures. They're used to thoughtful decision-making because they've been surrounded by it - not knee jerk "you're supposed to" on the one hand and "I won't" on the other, but seeing parents think things through, back up and re-do, change their minds, appologize, re-think, research, question, and look for options and alternatives. That kind of thoughtful decision making is one of the big factors which allows unschooling to work.
It's especially interesting to me because I've heard soooooo many times (from my dad in particular) that "kids need to learn to deal with the system so they know how to deal with beauracracy". I know plenty of schooled adults who come unglued when they have to fill out a form, while my daughter, who has never been schooled, never taken a test or filled out a worksheet, has done a number of things where she needed to fill out paperwork - and She was happy to fill out the paperwork with just a little help from me or George. Those have been some of my "so there!" moments - no, my kid didn't need to suffer under a beauracracy to know how to deal with one, not at all.
---Meredith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:50 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: feedback
>> That's one of the common results of living with a lot of rules and limits - you end up investing an amazing amount of personal energy in resisting or fighting or struggling to claim some kind of sense of self.**************
I also find it interesting that a lot of unschooled kids don't have nearly as much trouble with rules and procedures. They're used to thoughtful decision-making because they've been surrounded by it - not knee jerk "you're supposed to" on the one hand and "I won't" on the other, but seeing parents think things through, back up and re-do, change their minds, appologize, re-think, research, question, and look for options and alternatives. That kind of thoughtful decision making is one of the big factors which allows unschooling to work.
It's especially interesting to me because I've heard soooooo many times (from my dad in particular) that "kids need to learn to deal with the system so they know how to deal with beauracracy". I know plenty of schooled adults who come unglued when they have to fill out a form, while my daughter, who has never been schooled, never taken a test or filled out a worksheet, has done a number of things where she needed to fill out paperwork - and She was happy to fill out the paperwork with just a little help from me or George. Those have been some of my "so there!" moments - no, my kid didn't need to suffer under a beauracracy to know how to deal with one, not at all.
---Meredith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mandy Taylor
I'm not sure what state you reside in Joyce, but in the state of Arizona truant officers have the right to take your child from you and return them to school. They arrive at your home or drive around local hang outs and will pick up the child and take them back to school. I have seen it happen with my very own sister. They arrived at the home, knocked on the door and took her to school without my parents even knowing what they had done. Because they had the right to do so. So I'm not sure how that is different? Also, here in Arizona it is social services that investigate the parents.
Mandy
Mandy
On Jan 22, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
>
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 5:49 PM, Mandy Taylor wrote:
>
> > Truant officers are employees of the state and therefore their responsibility.
>
> They're responsible for carrying out their task to investigate parents who aren't making sure their kids get to school. They aren't responsible for the kids. Those are two very different things!
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mandy Taylor
I reviewed the site you named and it seems a bit on the radical side. Making statements such as, "What many contributors to HSIL object to is the fear-mongering and arm-twisting tactics that HSLDA employs". I have never felt pressured or "arm-twisted" to join.
They provide a service for a fee. Clearly we all have the right to homeschool/unschool in the USA with those rights varying within each state and different views from different organizations. I am not Christian, but feel they provide a legal service that is worth investigating. We live in the USA knowing that each has their own rights pertaining to religion. Each having the ability to learn what we can from others (even if they are a "Fundamentalist group") and disregard the information that does not apply.
I'm assuming that the poster in this scenario knows how to read all pertinent information and disregard information that is not applicable.
Mandy
They provide a service for a fee. Clearly we all have the right to homeschool/unschool in the USA with those rights varying within each state and different views from different organizations. I am not Christian, but feel they provide a legal service that is worth investigating. We live in the USA knowing that each has their own rights pertaining to religion. Each having the ability to learn what we can from others (even if they are a "Fundamentalist group") and disregard the information that does not apply.
I'm assuming that the poster in this scenario knows how to read all pertinent information and disregard information that is not applicable.
Mandy
On Jan 22, 2013, at 7:31 PM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
>
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 5:49 PM, Mandy Taylor wrote:
>
>> Can you send me a few links with show HSLDA will not help if you are not Christian?
>
> I didn't say they wouldn't help non-Christians. I said they have a Christian agenda, meaning they have goals built around their faith. They're a fundamentalist Christian organization. They won't take on a case if they believe it will interfere with what they believe is best for their particular flavor of Christian fundamentalist homeschoolers.
>
> Here's a wealth of information about HSLDA:
>
> http://hsislegal.com
>
> There is absolutely no reason a homeschoolers needs HSLDA. There are plenty of other ways to get help that don't involve their politics.
>
> The founder and head of HSLDA is Michael Farris. He is heavily involved in politics and the Christian groups responsible for the Christian agenda getting entwined in the Republican party. He founded Patrick Henry College, partially funded by HSLDA dues before enough homeschoolers objected. The college was founded to train fundamentalist Christian homeschoolers in politics. HSLDA headquarters is on the Patrick Henry campus. Here's a bit from Wikipedia:
>
>> All students must sign a "Statement of Faith" before they arrive, affirming belief in what the college considers core Christian doctrines. For example, students are asked to acknowledge "Satan exists as a personal, malevolent being who acts as tempter and accuser, for whom Hell, the place of eternal punishment, was prepared, where all who die outside of Christ shall be confined in conscious torment for eternity", and "Christ's death provides substitutionary atonement for our sins." The college professes non-denominational Christian beliefs.
>>
>> Teaching faculty must also sign the "Statement of Faith", plus a more detailed "Statement of Biblical Worldview", which represents the college's requirements for what should be taught. For example the Biblical Worldview Applications states that, "Any biology, Bible, or other courses at PHC dealing with creation will teach creation from the understanding of Scripture that God's creative work, as described in Genesis 1:1�31, was completed in six twenty-four-hour days." New Scientist has claimed that Patrick Henry College and the homeschooling community in general were "possibly threatening the public school system that has fought hard against imposing a Christian viewpoint on science teaching."
>>
>> In an interview with Fresh Air on National Public Radio, PHC founder Michael Farris commented that the college held the view that its faith was the only true faith ("We believe that there is truth and there is error."), and he expressed disapproval of religious and social toleration. "Tolerance cannot coexist with liberty" because "the crowd of tolerance wants to ban speech."
>
> And
>
>> Political views
>
>> Patrick Henry College has been criticized for what some see as extreme conservatism and evangelical Christian ethos, including creationism, by many newspapers such as theNew Zealand Herald and New Scientist. The school has also been criticized for an alleged Republican bias. Janet Ashcroft, wife of John Ashcroft, serves on the Board of Trustees. This has prompted the British newspaper The Independent to dub Patrick Henry College "The Bible College That Leads to the White House." The German newspaper Die Zeit criticised the college of influencing the niches with their own values and undercutting the society.
>
> This should take you to a Google Translated copy of the article from De Zeit:
> http://goo.gl/SL1g7
>
> He's a Reconstructionist. HSLDA and the college are his babies and as much involved with the Reconstructionist movement as he is.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism
>
>> Influence on the Christian Right in general
>>
>> Main article: Dominionism
>>
>> Although relatively insignificant in terms of the number of self-described adherents, Christian Reconstructionism has played a role in promoting the trend toward explicitly Christian politics in the larger U.S. Christian Right. This is the wider trend to which some critics refer, generally, as Dominionism. They also allegedly have influence disproportionate to their numbers among the advocates of the growth of the Christian homeschooling and other Christian education movements that seek independence from the direct oversight or support of the civil government. Because their numbers are so small compared to their influence, they are sometimes accused of being secretive and conspiratorial.They deny this, noting they have published thousands of newsletters and hundreds of books.
>
> Unless you're a Reconstructionist, there are plenty of better ways to spend your money.
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lindaguitar
--- In [email protected], Jo-Anna Brereton wrote:
This is the site that I found:
http://ontariohomeschool.org/legal.shtml#educationact
So, yeah, know your rights! *If* all you're really required to do, according to Ontario's education laws, is send in a statement (to whom? That wasn't clear in what I read) saying that you intend to homeschool your child, then the school that is demanding all kinds of other paperwork, referencing curriculum choices, etc, may be exceeding its authority, and all you'd have to do is let them know that you have already complied with the law, if you have done so. These types of cases come up in Georgia, where I live, ALL the time!
Linda
>I looked up information online about homeschooling laws in Ontario, and what I found seems to match what Jo-Ann said. (And since she lived there, she's the best source of info here on the legalities of it, so far.)
> I recently moved my my family from Kitchener to Newfoundland, and I
> have got o say, it was waaaaaaay easier in Kitchener.
>
> Unless you are under investigation I believe that all you have to
> do is sign the letter of intent to homeschool. At that point they
> pretty much wash their hands of you, ....
This is the site that I found:
http://ontariohomeschool.org/legal.shtml#educationact
> In Ontario it is mostly provincial rules, and a lot of the actualThis issue of school administrators and local school board officials not knowing the real homeschool laws in their respective states applies in MANY parts of the U.S., too! The people in charge of collecting whatever paperwork may be required often ask for much more information, or a lot of signed statements, that they are NOT supposed to ask for, and that homeschooling parents are NOT required to submit!
> schools have no idea what they are and are not allowed to do. So
> look up the regulations, and know your rights.
So, yeah, know your rights! *If* all you're really required to do, according to Ontario's education laws, is send in a statement (to whom? That wasn't clear in what I read) saying that you intend to homeschool your child, then the school that is demanding all kinds of other paperwork, referencing curriculum choices, etc, may be exceeding its authority, and all you'd have to do is let them know that you have already complied with the law, if you have done so. These types of cases come up in Georgia, where I live, ALL the time!
Linda
Debra Rossing
State laws differ but pretty much all of them require that you withdraw your child in writing to remove them from the attendance rolls. That's the same as if you were transferring to a private school or moving out of town/state. Depending on the state laws, it may be as simple as a letter that says "Dear School, My child (name) will no longer be attending Main Street School as of (date). Sincerely, (Your name)" or it may be a form that you fill out. After that, what kinds of paperwork and stuff you need to do varies from nothing (here in CT) to annual testing, portfolios, etc. It can all be done transparently to your child - that is, you take care of things as minimally as possible and leave your child free.
--DebR
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Debra Rossing
>intrusive and fear based... and a visit by the truant officer and truancy proceedings are less intrusive?
--DebR
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Debra Rossing
> I also find it interesting that a lot of unschooled kids don't have nearly as much trouble with rules and procedures. They're used to thoughtful decision-making because they've been surrounded by itGave a little LOL at this - my never-schooled 14 yr old is one of the most likely to obey the rules kids we know. If there's a rule, there's a reason. Sometimes, the rules don't make sense (arbitrary stuff) and we'll discuss whether doing A is worth obeying rule B. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But, if a bounce house says max capacity 10, and there are 14 people in it, he (a) won't go in (b) tries to find the responsible "monitor" and make sure it's being addressed. Who knew that by not loading up on arbitrary rules and regulations, we'd get a kid who thoughtfully complies with rules and regulations? Lol But, as was mentioned, by not having an adversarial relationship with everything and having to push back to make his own space, he is much more comfortable about "the rules". We'll even laugh at some rules that seem silly "gee, there's a rule about that. Wonder who did X that made them need a rule like that?"
--DebR
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Debra Rossing
To start, check out the agreement you sign when you sign up - especially the parts about the clear curriculum (worded differently, don't have it handy at the moment). Also, I had a LONG email discussion with them some years ago and the upshot was that unless you are "doing school" you may or may not be covered if something comes up. They have a very schooled mindset and unschooling is not something they're going to handle most of the time. Sure, they'll answer questions if you ask, and sometimes I'll hit their website to do a quick check on statute information (they do show the actual statute references for all states so it makes looking things up easier) but they tend to want more than the actual minimum the law requires. For instance, in CT, there is no paperwork requirement at all (once your child is withdrawn from the roll books) BUT they "prefer" that everyone file the optional Notice of Intent form, which includes agreeing to a portfolio review. It's not required legally but if you don't do it, they might not "be able" to support you should anything arise. That's right from them (but it was a decade ago so I don't still have the email thread).
--DebR
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