homeschooling malaise
jmm12_5_62
My 2 children, ages 12 and 9 (as of spring 2005) went to public
school through 4th and 1st grades, respectively. This is our 2nd
year homeschooling. They seem to want to just lie around and read
all day, often balk at getting dressed, brushing teeth, doing a few
simple chores to help out (I have been slowly dealing with and
recovering from chronic fatigue-type symptoms, and energy level
fluctuates). I feel like I have to nag for anything to happen. I
can't seem to figure out how to get the basic, necessary
food/clothes/rudimentary housework done AND make sure we have some
sort of learning experiences. We live in NY state, which has
requirements in many subject areas, not sure how to cover what's
asked for while unschooling, also am worried that we are just
drifting along. My 12-yr-old wants to go back to school for high
school (she thinks, anyway) and I don't want her to be behind and
have to cram at the last minute. Is it normal and OK for the children
to be doing so little? If it's better for them to be more active,
how can I motivate them? And how do we unschool and not push things,
while still covering what's required and not totally ditching
our "Individual Home Instruction Plan," which we are required to file
in August and do a certain percentage of? And how do I not let this
stuff drive me crazy? Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you so
much.
school through 4th and 1st grades, respectively. This is our 2nd
year homeschooling. They seem to want to just lie around and read
all day, often balk at getting dressed, brushing teeth, doing a few
simple chores to help out (I have been slowly dealing with and
recovering from chronic fatigue-type symptoms, and energy level
fluctuates). I feel like I have to nag for anything to happen. I
can't seem to figure out how to get the basic, necessary
food/clothes/rudimentary housework done AND make sure we have some
sort of learning experiences. We live in NY state, which has
requirements in many subject areas, not sure how to cover what's
asked for while unschooling, also am worried that we are just
drifting along. My 12-yr-old wants to go back to school for high
school (she thinks, anyway) and I don't want her to be behind and
have to cram at the last minute. Is it normal and OK for the children
to be doing so little? If it's better for them to be more active,
how can I motivate them? And how do we unschool and not push things,
while still covering what's required and not totally ditching
our "Individual Home Instruction Plan," which we are required to file
in August and do a certain percentage of? And how do I not let this
stuff drive me crazy? Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you so
much.
[email protected]
Hello.
My two children, 13 and 10, get a small allowance (like a paycheck) at the
beginning of the month, for keeping their dirty clothes put in the laundry
room, brushing their teeth, making their beds, picking up their toys and games
when done with them, putting their dirty dishes in the sink, some vacuuming,
some snow shoveling, emptying garbage, just plain ole basic things that need to
be done without me telling them everyday. I kind of, in my head, keep track
as to how well they do their "jobs" and then they receive a paycheck
(allowance). I do not buy them their extras, like if they want a dvd, cd, yugioh
cards, etc. They use their own money, which also keeps them from begging me
for something when we are shopping for grocerys and necessities at Meijers or
other stores. My job is to provide them with clothes, food, haircuts, an
education, curriculum needs - those kinds of things. It has worked out very
well for all of us. Part of them learning at home is for them to be responsible
and that we all work together as a family to acheive our goals. With their
own spending cash, they learn math and how to save. Both of my two youngest
children have great savings accounts. They can add up how many months it
will take them before they can purchase something and if they want it sooner,
will find outside jobs like babysitting the neighbors children or raking the
neighbors yards. My children are very much interest led and I let them run
with it, learning everything they can, which, in some cases, will include
reading, writing, science, math, history and geography. We keep track of
everything by taking pictures and putting the pictures in albums, writing about our
experience and also I write everything down on my calendar, in case I need to
refer back. I have kept all of my calendars for the past 10 years. They are
in 4-H, Odyssey of the Mind, Girlscouts, Boyscouts, Awanas, baseball, gym,
piano, etc. There is just so many areas in which they are learning that I do
not worry about it too much. Maybe some of these ideas will help you out.
Have a good day.
Cheryl in Michigan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My two children, 13 and 10, get a small allowance (like a paycheck) at the
beginning of the month, for keeping their dirty clothes put in the laundry
room, brushing their teeth, making their beds, picking up their toys and games
when done with them, putting their dirty dishes in the sink, some vacuuming,
some snow shoveling, emptying garbage, just plain ole basic things that need to
be done without me telling them everyday. I kind of, in my head, keep track
as to how well they do their "jobs" and then they receive a paycheck
(allowance). I do not buy them their extras, like if they want a dvd, cd, yugioh
cards, etc. They use their own money, which also keeps them from begging me
for something when we are shopping for grocerys and necessities at Meijers or
other stores. My job is to provide them with clothes, food, haircuts, an
education, curriculum needs - those kinds of things. It has worked out very
well for all of us. Part of them learning at home is for them to be responsible
and that we all work together as a family to acheive our goals. With their
own spending cash, they learn math and how to save. Both of my two youngest
children have great savings accounts. They can add up how many months it
will take them before they can purchase something and if they want it sooner,
will find outside jobs like babysitting the neighbors children or raking the
neighbors yards. My children are very much interest led and I let them run
with it, learning everything they can, which, in some cases, will include
reading, writing, science, math, history and geography. We keep track of
everything by taking pictures and putting the pictures in albums, writing about our
experience and also I write everything down on my calendar, in case I need to
refer back. I have kept all of my calendars for the past 10 years. They are
in 4-H, Odyssey of the Mind, Girlscouts, Boyscouts, Awanas, baseball, gym,
piano, etc. There is just so many areas in which they are learning that I do
not worry about it too much. Maybe some of these ideas will help you out.
Have a good day.
Cheryl in Michigan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S
>>They seem to want to just lie around and readall day,>>>
That doesn't sound so bad. A lot of people wish their kids would sit around
and read all day.
>> often balk at getting dressed,>>>Why is that important unless you have some place to go?
>>> brushing teeth,>>>Maybe it wouldn't seem like such a big deal if it were the only thing you
were asking.
>>> doing a fewsimple chores to help out (I have been slowly dealing with and
recovering from chronic fatigue-type symptoms, and energy level
fluctuates).>>>
Is it possible that you could just relax your standards? The kids won't be
at home forever. You will have the rest of your life to have a clean house.
>>> I feel like I have to nag for anything to happen.>>>Not a good way to keep the relationship with your kids positive. :-(
>>> Ican't seem to figure out how to get the basic, necessary
food/clothes/rudimentary housework done AND make sure we have some
sort of learning experiences.>>>
The kids will eat when they are hungry. I don't think being a short order
cook with two kids is a very big deal. I make some meals and the kids
choose whether or not they want to eat that or something else that is
relatively easy to get, like cereal, or Beefaroni, a sandwich or carrot
sticks and cheese and crackers.
The clothing is only a big deal if you are going somewhere. My 8 yo gets
dressed before going to bed at night so she won't have to get dressed in the
morning. Sometimes, God forbid, she wears the same clothes to bed, the next
day, to bed again, and the next day. If we haven't been anywhere to get
dirty, it isn't a bid deal to me. She only likes soft clothing so it isn't
a big deal to sleep in them. If the kids actually want to go where ever it
is we are going, they get dressed happily. I keep unnecessary trips to a
minimum and they are willing to get dressed those times that we have to go
somewhere (groceries or car appointment, etc.) because they know I work to
make it as easy on them as I can.
House work.what's that? LOL! I do the basics to keep my sanity. I keep up
with the dishes and laundry and I vacuum once or twice a week depending on
how much gunk ends up on the floors. The kids will do specific things that
I ask of them most of the time. (It is their choice though.) They don't have
chores but they usually help pick up their toys and papers fairly willingly.
If they don't want to, I either try to remember that it is me that likes the
floors picked up, not them or I decide that I can live with it like it is.
I put our relationship first before a clean house.
>>> We live in NY state, which hasrequirements in many subject areas, not sure how to cover what's
asked for while unschooling, also am worried that we are just
drifting along.>>>
As long as you are drifting along happily, I don't see the problem. If your
kids are reading all day, they must cover just about everything that is
required. You just need to learn some education speak and convert what they
do into something that the schools think is valuable. Sustained silent
reading. :-)
>>>> My 12-yr-old wants to go back to school for highschool (she thinks, anyway) and I don't want her to be behind and
have to cram at the last minute.>>>>
Better to cram at the last minute than to spend years preparing for
something (making her miserable) that may or may not happen.
>>> Is it normal and OK for the childrento be doing so little?>>>
Do you think your children are abnormal? Is what they are doing considered
o.k. to do during summer vacation? Do they feel stimulated? Do they want
more interaction from other people/things? Are they happy? If they are
wanting more, you can find a way to help them fulfill their needs. If they
are content, why would that not be normal?
>>> If it's better for them to be more active,how can I motivate them?>>>
Motivation comes from inside, but you could strew their lives with
interesting things and ideas and see if any of those things take root. ( be
prepared that some things might and others might not. It's no reflection on
you.) I never knew when we went with a home school group to tour a riding
stable over 2 years ago that my girls would find their passion, but we all
have taken a shining to horse back riding and we even have our own horse
now. < I could never have predicted that back then. Ever.> We ride almost
every day now and the girls (8 and 10) now have a reason to get dressed
every day. They didn't get dressed for many years unless we went out
somewhere or they went to bed dressed. It didn't matter. Sure, my mother
would pop in from time to time and comment that they weren't dressed but the
kids just blew it off. It never bothered them. We aren't very conventional
anyway, so my mom got used to it.
>>> And how do we unschool and not push things,while still covering what's required and not totally ditching
our "Individual Home Instruction Plan," which we are required to file
in August and do a certain percentage of?>>>
You can think of that stuff as a governmental hoop to jump through and take
it upon yourself to fill in the paper work any way you choose. Or you could
learn how to see the learning in everything they do and use what they
already do to fulfill the requirements. Just think creatively.
>>> And how do I not let thisstuff drive me crazy? Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you so
much.>>>
Just give it up to God or the wind or the all powerful divine. Choose not
to worry about it. Find out how other unschoolers in your state fulfill the
requirements, figure out how you can meet them without putting the burden on
your children, and then spend the rest of the year enjoying your children.
Play with them, watch TV with them, read with them, go places with them,
talk with them, love them.
That's my advice. Take what you can use and leave the rest behind.
Angela
Game-enthusiast@...
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TreeGoddess
(Think of my "voice" as being one of a friend at the table having some
herbal tea with ya. ;')
-=-My two children, 13 and 10, get a small allowance (like a
paycheck) at the beginning of the month, for keeping their
dirty clothes put in the laundry room, brushing their teeth,
making their beds, picking up their toys and games when done
with them, putting their dirty dishes in the sink, some vacuuming,
some snow shoveling, emptying garbage, just plain ole basic things
that need to be done without me telling them everyday.-=-
I don't have any expectations for these things to be done by my
children or my DH -- or even myself really. If I see that the garbage
can is full and needs to be emptied I empty it. The sink is full of
dishes so I load the dishwasher. If I see something that needs my
attention I just do it (or make a mental note to come back to it if I'm
busy right then).
There is a collection of links and stories from other unschooling
families called "Living Better Without Requiring Chores" over at
http://sandradodd.com/chores I encourage others to bring more joy into
their homes instead of nagging and power struggles. :)
-=-I kind of, in my head, keep track as to how well they do their
"jobs" and then they receive a paycheck (allowance).-=-
How would you feel if your DH kept track of how well you do your
"jobs"? I wouldn't feel very loved or valued by my DH and you I'd be
pretty angry at him. Why is it OK to do that to children?
-=-I do not buy them their extras, like if they want a dvd, cd, yugioh
cards, etc. They use their own money, which also keeps them from
begging me for something when we are shopping for grocerys and
necessities at Meijers or other stores. -=-
My children are a little younger than yours and they get $5 every
Friday to spend or save how they decide. Their allowance isn't tied to
chores or performance . . . it's just their money. No strings. If we
have the 'extra' in our bank account for the ___ that my child wants
we'll usually get it for them. Sometimes we don't have the money for
it and we let them know that they could use their allowance or wait.
Sometimes we've had the money for it but they child insisted on paying
for it with their own money. It doesn't have to be either/or but a
combo of ways. Sandra also has an article on kids and money and the
concept of 'spoiled' children at http://sandradodd.com/spoiled I can't
seem to find the link I had about 'rewards' and stuff that is
performance or behavior based . . . if anyone has a good one will you
post it so I can bookmark it again. :)
-=-My job is to provide them with clothes, food, haircuts, an
education, curriculum needs - those kinds of things.-=-
I want to ask what you mean above by writing that it's your job to
provide "an education, curriculum needs". Are you using a curriculum?
-=-Part of them learning at home is for them to be responsible
and that we all work together as a family to acheive our goals.-=-
Is it? Responsibility is something that is learned and often comes
naturally with more maturity. It can be modeled, but it can't be
taught. For my children . . . learning at home is about not being at
school, living a life of freedom and joy and learning happening along
the way. Life is living is learning. :)
-Tracy-
"Every moment spent in unhappiness is a moment of
happiness lost." -- Leo Buscaglia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
herbal tea with ya. ;')
-=-My two children, 13 and 10, get a small allowance (like a
paycheck) at the beginning of the month, for keeping their
dirty clothes put in the laundry room, brushing their teeth,
making their beds, picking up their toys and games when done
with them, putting their dirty dishes in the sink, some vacuuming,
some snow shoveling, emptying garbage, just plain ole basic things
that need to be done without me telling them everyday.-=-
I don't have any expectations for these things to be done by my
children or my DH -- or even myself really. If I see that the garbage
can is full and needs to be emptied I empty it. The sink is full of
dishes so I load the dishwasher. If I see something that needs my
attention I just do it (or make a mental note to come back to it if I'm
busy right then).
There is a collection of links and stories from other unschooling
families called "Living Better Without Requiring Chores" over at
http://sandradodd.com/chores I encourage others to bring more joy into
their homes instead of nagging and power struggles. :)
-=-I kind of, in my head, keep track as to how well they do their
"jobs" and then they receive a paycheck (allowance).-=-
How would you feel if your DH kept track of how well you do your
"jobs"? I wouldn't feel very loved or valued by my DH and you I'd be
pretty angry at him. Why is it OK to do that to children?
-=-I do not buy them their extras, like if they want a dvd, cd, yugioh
cards, etc. They use their own money, which also keeps them from
begging me for something when we are shopping for grocerys and
necessities at Meijers or other stores. -=-
My children are a little younger than yours and they get $5 every
Friday to spend or save how they decide. Their allowance isn't tied to
chores or performance . . . it's just their money. No strings. If we
have the 'extra' in our bank account for the ___ that my child wants
we'll usually get it for them. Sometimes we don't have the money for
it and we let them know that they could use their allowance or wait.
Sometimes we've had the money for it but they child insisted on paying
for it with their own money. It doesn't have to be either/or but a
combo of ways. Sandra also has an article on kids and money and the
concept of 'spoiled' children at http://sandradodd.com/spoiled I can't
seem to find the link I had about 'rewards' and stuff that is
performance or behavior based . . . if anyone has a good one will you
post it so I can bookmark it again. :)
-=-My job is to provide them with clothes, food, haircuts, an
education, curriculum needs - those kinds of things.-=-
I want to ask what you mean above by writing that it's your job to
provide "an education, curriculum needs". Are you using a curriculum?
-=-Part of them learning at home is for them to be responsible
and that we all work together as a family to acheive our goals.-=-
Is it? Responsibility is something that is learned and often comes
naturally with more maturity. It can be modeled, but it can't be
taught. For my children . . . learning at home is about not being at
school, living a life of freedom and joy and learning happening along
the way. Life is living is learning. :)
-Tracy-
"Every moment spent in unhappiness is a moment of
happiness lost." -- Leo Buscaglia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"For anyone on the list, my e-mail was not to step on anyone's toes
but to
offer some advice. Take it or leave it, but don't be nasty."
First of all, if your post gets questioned or someone disagrees with
your advice, don't make it personal. This is a discussion list.
I think you were responding to my post perhaps, not Tracy?
I was questioning your advice as being unschooling. I didn't say you
weren't close to your children, nor make any other accusations. The
advice you gave was about curriculum and education and paying
allowance for chores. I was questioning it as sound UNschooling
advice.
Nobody here is saying that families that fall outside of unschooling
principles are a miserable lot. I am certainly not saying that when
I question advice.
But if the advice is not in line with unschooling principles, it
WILL get questioned.
Ren
but to
offer some advice. Take it or leave it, but don't be nasty."
First of all, if your post gets questioned or someone disagrees with
your advice, don't make it personal. This is a discussion list.
I think you were responding to my post perhaps, not Tracy?
I was questioning your advice as being unschooling. I didn't say you
weren't close to your children, nor make any other accusations. The
advice you gave was about curriculum and education and paying
allowance for chores. I was questioning it as sound UNschooling
advice.
Nobody here is saying that families that fall outside of unschooling
principles are a miserable lot. I am certainly not saying that when
I question advice.
But if the advice is not in line with unschooling principles, it
WILL get questioned.
Ren
Ren Allen
I thought Cheryl was responding to my post and mistaking me for
Trace...nevermind!! I had just missed your post Tracy.
Please keep in mind Cheryl, that this list is all about trying to
help new folks understand unschooling and if your advice muddles the
unschooling principles, it's going to get a very fast and clear
response.
Things like this:
"-=-My job is to provide them with clothes, food, haircuts, an
education, curriculum needs - those kinds of things.-=-"
and then saying you do NOT buy them "extras", will get a lot of
folks here trying to give a different point of view.
If you're all happy with what you're doing, great! But if this list
is going to provide an alternative point of view, according to
unschooling philosophies, then posts about how that isn't the best
way to achieve mutual respect are going to fly!:)
It's not personal.
When a post gets questioned this way, you can take or leave the
information. No one is trying to make anyone else change, only offer
another way of living with children that involves some really
different ways of thinking.
Ren
Trace...nevermind!! I had just missed your post Tracy.
Please keep in mind Cheryl, that this list is all about trying to
help new folks understand unschooling and if your advice muddles the
unschooling principles, it's going to get a very fast and clear
response.
Things like this:
"-=-My job is to provide them with clothes, food, haircuts, an
education, curriculum needs - those kinds of things.-=-"
and then saying you do NOT buy them "extras", will get a lot of
folks here trying to give a different point of view.
If you're all happy with what you're doing, great! But if this list
is going to provide an alternative point of view, according to
unschooling philosophies, then posts about how that isn't the best
way to achieve mutual respect are going to fly!:)
It's not personal.
When a post gets questioned this way, you can take or leave the
information. No one is trying to make anyone else change, only offer
another way of living with children that involves some really
different ways of thinking.
Ren
jmm12_5_62
Dear Friends,
I appreciate the help of ALL who replied to my question. Seeing so
many differing viewpoints is helping me to realize there's no "right"
way to do this, and I'm feeling better about accepting how things are
and enjoying reality - and less guilty about having fun and chilling
out. The funny thing is, since I've been more relaxed, the children
have suddenly become very helpful and also creative, doing all sorts
of projects and having cool discussions. I guess they were just
taking a break and incubating their intellect. So I know now I need
to take a more relaxed, accepting approach, and quit being tense and
worried that Mom or New York State (or the other homeschoolers I
associate with who do school-at-home)are looking over my shoulder and
judging harshly. We are who we are and we're doing what we're doing,
and if we and our kids are healthy and happy, it's OK. One thing
that's been daunting has been dealing with low energy and health
issues, which makes it hard to go lots of places and do high-energy
activities. That's getting better now, but I'm still wondering how
other families homeschool when the primary home parent has a chronic
illness. Again, thank you all so much, I feel i've found a lifeline.
Jennie
I appreciate the help of ALL who replied to my question. Seeing so
many differing viewpoints is helping me to realize there's no "right"
way to do this, and I'm feeling better about accepting how things are
and enjoying reality - and less guilty about having fun and chilling
out. The funny thing is, since I've been more relaxed, the children
have suddenly become very helpful and also creative, doing all sorts
of projects and having cool discussions. I guess they were just
taking a break and incubating their intellect. So I know now I need
to take a more relaxed, accepting approach, and quit being tense and
worried that Mom or New York State (or the other homeschoolers I
associate with who do school-at-home)are looking over my shoulder and
judging harshly. We are who we are and we're doing what we're doing,
and if we and our kids are healthy and happy, it's OK. One thing
that's been daunting has been dealing with low energy and health
issues, which makes it hard to go lots of places and do high-energy
activities. That's getting better now, but I'm still wondering how
other families homeschool when the primary home parent has a chronic
illness. Again, thank you all so much, I feel i've found a lifeline.
Jennie
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/8/2005 6:06:52 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
jmm12_5_62@... writes:
have bouts of depression that make it hard as heck to drag my physical body
outta bed,,,we(or I) read while in bed,,or if you feel better at a different
time of day,,,do what you can with them then,,,,,it all works out..
jmm12_5_62@... writes:
> That's getting better now, but I'm still wondering howjenni,,you do what you can...we have dont projects while im in bed ,,,i still
> other families homeschool when the primary home parent has a chronic
> illness. Again, thank you all so much, I feel i've found a lifeline.
> Jennie
>
have bouts of depression that make it hard as heck to drag my physical body
outta bed,,,we(or I) read while in bed,,or if you feel better at a different
time of day,,,do what you can with them then,,,,,it all works out..
>>June[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/8/2005 8:12:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jmm12_5_62@... writes:
One thing
that's been daunting has been dealing with low energy and health
issues, which makes it hard to go lots of places and do high-energy
activities. That's getting better now, but I'm still wondering how
other families homeschool when the primary home parent has a chronic
illness. Again, thank you all so much, I feel i've found a lifeline.
Jennie
******
Hi Jennie,
We talked about this on another list, so I'll summarize. *You* are their
mom and you are the one they want to have around. This is way more important
than what you are or are not able to provide for them. Watch tv with them or
play board games, are there places in your life where you can shift your
focus a bit? Is there a neighborhood or homeschooling teen willing to fill in
the gaps a bit for a little money? Are there places you can go where the
children can keep themselves occupied but you can sit...(like the library or the
park or something)? Do you belong to Netflix or something similar where they
just send you movies in the mail?
I know it must be hard. We all have some sort of challenge that keeps us
from being the ultimate unschooling family. Forget the ideal, work on what
your particular family needs may be. What is your alternative? Put them in
school and deal with that? That is exhausting too!
Make the most of what you can do, figure out ways to maximize that and enjoy
your children. Be with them *in the moment*. When things aren't going
well, forgive yourself.
My husband is in the military and can be gone for months at a time. I worry
that the kids aren't getting enough during those times. I try to shift my
focus to *being* with them and not so much *what* they are doing. A few
people on this list know my kids and can tell you that they are fine, well, better
than fine I think!
Hope this helps!
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jmm12_5_62@... writes:
One thing
that's been daunting has been dealing with low energy and health
issues, which makes it hard to go lots of places and do high-energy
activities. That's getting better now, but I'm still wondering how
other families homeschool when the primary home parent has a chronic
illness. Again, thank you all so much, I feel i've found a lifeline.
Jennie
******
Hi Jennie,
We talked about this on another list, so I'll summarize. *You* are their
mom and you are the one they want to have around. This is way more important
than what you are or are not able to provide for them. Watch tv with them or
play board games, are there places in your life where you can shift your
focus a bit? Is there a neighborhood or homeschooling teen willing to fill in
the gaps a bit for a little money? Are there places you can go where the
children can keep themselves occupied but you can sit...(like the library or the
park or something)? Do you belong to Netflix or something similar where they
just send you movies in the mail?
I know it must be hard. We all have some sort of challenge that keeps us
from being the ultimate unschooling family. Forget the ideal, work on what
your particular family needs may be. What is your alternative? Put them in
school and deal with that? That is exhausting too!
Make the most of what you can do, figure out ways to maximize that and enjoy
your children. Be with them *in the moment*. When things aren't going
well, forgive yourself.
My husband is in the military and can be gone for months at a time. I worry
that the kids aren't getting enough during those times. I try to shift my
focus to *being* with them and not so much *what* they are doing. A few
people on this list know my kids and can tell you that they are fine, well, better
than fine I think!
Hope this helps!
Leslie in SC
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