Sara Uselton

That term strikes some small measure of fear in me. I mostly don't worry about what the rest of society thinks of my lifestyle, but sometimes I get on worry tangents.

I worry that someone will find out how we homeschool---that we unschool-- and then I'll have to start answering to someone from child services. I don't really talk about how we do things to other people. When someone asks about curriculum, I just say that we develop our own curriculum. I'm aware that leaves them with a different impression from what we actually do, which I'm fine with. But I don't want my kids to feel that they should hide how they live. My kids are very outgoing, and my oldest will just tell people randomly, "I get to play video games all day!" And it worries me.

Like all kids, my kids seem very advanced in some areas, and less advanced in others. For instance, my ds7 has an incredibly large vocabulary, and a lot of trivia knowledge about a broad range of things. He's extremely witty and creative. He creates these extravagant games and stories in his mind, which he plays out independently. On the other hand, he can't quite count to 30 (He skips either 13 or 14 every time.) He really just doesn't seem to have an interest in numbers right now, and he doesn't know the days of the week. I worry about how we would be judged, if we were approached by someone in the government.

I wonder if I should document in some way what we're doing around here. I know a lady who, for every day that it's appropriate, just looked at the things her kids did that day, and documented the "subjects" that best fit them. Like listing math, social studies, science, etc. Sometimes I think I should do something like that, but I feel a great resistance to it. I feel that the more I try to look at my kid's activities in a schooly way, the more stressed I feel. When I just enjoy my time with my kids, and explore their and my interests, that's when our lives feel most joyful and harmonious.

My question is, does anybody else have these worries? How do you address them? I would appreciate any help in putting these things in perspective.

Thanks so much in advance.
Sara

Melissa Kruger

"I wonder if I should document in some way what we're doing around here. I know a lady who, for every day that it's appropriate, just looked at
the things her kids did that day, and documented the "subjects" that
best fit them. Like listing math, social studies, science, etc.
Sometimes I think I should do something like that, but I feel a great
resistance to it. I feel that the more I try to look at my kid's
activities in a schooly way, the more stressed I feel. When I just
enjoy my time with my kids, and explore their and my interests, that's
when our lives feel most joyful and harmonious."

**********************************

One
idea is to consider keeping an informal record of what your kids are up
to each day-- not in a comprehensive or schoolish way, but simply as a
record, should need or want it later.  You can jot down under Thursday,
"watched Totoro, baked cookies, watched birds on the feeder, had a chat
about japanese vs. american architecture, evolution, and what baking
soda does. Built the Eiffel Tower in Minecraft."  If you ever need to
translate that into schoolish language, you could, but otherwise you can
just enjoy the remarkable record of life and learning unfolding.   

Some people use Evernote, some people use computer entries, some people use
short entries in a planner that has a generous space next to each
weekday.  These planners work perfectly for me: http://www.blueskyimg.com/

--Melissa K.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Mar 9, 2012, at 7:13 PM, Sara Uselton wrote:

> I worry about how we would be judged, if we were approached by someone in the government.

How likely is that in your state? Are you on a state homeschoolers or unschoolers list?

I used to say we followed her interests rather than mentioning a curriculum. That way if she didn't know something it seemed like she should for her age, I could trot out whatever she was focusing on at the moment.

It's pretty typical for homeschooled kids not to know the days of the week when they're young. Homeschool days are divided into "Days Daddy's home" and "Days Daddy's not home" ;-) Kat probably didn't have them down pat until she was preteen or early teens.

Your *worry* that they don't know the days is far more likely to set off people's alarms than the kids not knowing them. As long as you can be calm and confident that they'll learn them, it's not likely to cause more than a ripple.

> But I don't want my kids to feel that they should hide how they live.


But they can choose how the present how they live depending on who they're talking to.

You can coach them. Come up with some ideas together. Like, "Hey, can we think of some things you guys do that will sound like learning to other people? I think telling them you play video games all day confuses them since most adults don't understand how much learning there is in games."

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

"Sara Uselton" <saralouwho@...> wrote:
>> I worry that someone will find out how we homeschool---that we unschool-- and then I'll have to start answering to someone from child services.
****************

Know your local laws, procedures and policies - arm yourself with information. If there aren't any local unschooling groups to check with for tips and ways to "work the system" check with local radical christian homeschoolers and find out what They do - they're even more staunch about keeping the government at bay than unschoolers.

Generally speaking (know your local laws!!!) child services doesn't have much - if any - power where "educational neglect" is concerned and so long as your ducks are in a row where the law is concerned, if your home isn't swarming with roaches and reeking of meth, child services won't fuss with you more than a visit or two, and maybe an attempt to shame you into sending your kids to school. The people who most need to worry about educational neglect are divorcees and single moms, who may have exes or extended family who don't believe their competent to educate their children. And even in those cases, calling child services is only useful as a scare tactic - the real action involves the courts.

>>> I wonder if I should document in some way what we're doing around here.
***************

Keep a blog or scrapbook if you like. If you post cute pix and stories to facebook, consider duplicating them in a blog, unless you're the sort who posts something every day. Don't worry about subjects or whatnot - if you Need to report things under subjects you can spend a day going back over old posts and assign subjects then, without dragging that kind of thinking into your daily life.

For a time we had to document what Ray was doing for his bio mom and the strategy I used was to look over the last several months worth of activities and retrospectively create a "learning plan" assigning "goals" he had already achieved so that he was always, always "making good progress". Making all that easier, we were registered with an umbrella school which is very unschooling-friendly (if you're in TN, it's The Farm School).

With Mo, we don't need to go through nearly as many hoops and I'm pretty confident that if I actually need to do any real reporting I can start by cleaning the house and cataloging the mess into projects and subjects - one of the advantages of a messy house is that it's a good record of what my kid has actually been doing! Why is the Beginner's Guide to Philosophers on the floor? Who cares... write that down as a resource.

---Meredith

Susan Lervold

Hi Sara:



I'm a new unschooler, too. And yes, sometimes I worry about "educational
neglect", but not so much about judgment by officials (oh, just let them
come!), but from family and acquaintances. I hate it when my son (14 y.o.)
is put on the spot with, "So, what have you been learning lately?" His
age-appropriate response is generally, "I dunno," and if I'm within earshot,
I have to bite my tongue not to jump in with, "Tell him (/her) about (fill
in the blank)!" No matter what we'd say, I get the feeling that it would
never be enough to satisfy the person asking.or, on the other hand, maybe
I'm just projecting my own insecurities. Either which way, I try to keep my
trap shut and let him say what he will.



I make an effort to be easy on myself, though. I try to remind myself that
I've suffered more than 15 years' worth of indoctrination (aka: public
schooling), and that kind of programming doesn't just melt away overnight.
I don't expect approval from others, nor do I seek it. As for my family,
well, they have their own kids to rear as they see fit. My validation comes
with every horror story about vaccines imposed without parental consent,
sexual assaults committed by teachers, or fudged test scores I hear about.
For better or worse, my decision to withdraw my son from public school came
more from what I wanted him to avoid than from what I wanted to offer; I am
bound and determined to provide an environment that fosters free thought for
my child and protects him from the kind of brainwashing that I had to
endure. I have faith that the rest will take care of itself.



Susan





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

My kids are 6 and 9  and I have been reading about unschooling since my son was 2 .
My kids have never been to school.
I do not worry  a bit about educational neglect ! 

Because I can see all the learning they are doing. Because I strive to create a learning enviornment in
 my home. I have lots of cool things I buy, find and bring in.
We actually have the home office that is also full of cool  stuff one would see it as educational.
My kids see it as fun! 
Lots of crafty stuff, puzzles, games, books, arts materials, binoculars, telescope, microscope, science stuff, posters in walls!
My school at home friends are impressed by my "homeschool room". 
I collect all they do. Stuff they bring in from the Zoo or the park where we went to play!

We got memberships to the science museum and zoo.
We got a video collection on ancient civilizations and  collect Wildlife Explorer animal cards!

Sure I am lucky that my oldest was reading fluently at 6. That helped as no one questions how I am a good "teacher".
I do not go around telling family and friends what we do.
They do not know that my son spends a lot of his time on the computer and video games and that is how he learned to read.
They do know he loves video games. They do not know he learned to read by playing online games!
I let them think whatever they want. I do not even use the term unschooling with extended family.

I also do not hide. It is just  that I know when to change the conversation.  

It may also be because I am very confident of what I am doing and people can feel that. 
I am confident on our unschooling and I see  the learning my kids do every day. I can also translate them to 
school terms if  need be but I really do not feel like I need it for me.
I think once you deschool yourself enough, once you really understand unschooling and you see learning everywhere then you will be confident enough.



 
Alex Polikowsky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

<<<<""I make an effort to be easy on myself, though. I try to remind myself that
I've suffered more than 15 years' worth of indoctrination (aka: public
schooling), and that kind of programming doesn't just melt away overnight.
I don't expect approval from others, nor do I seek it. As for my family,
well, they have their own kids to rear as they see fit. My validation comes
with every horror story about vaccines imposed without parental consent,
sexual assaults committed by teachers, or fudged test scores I hear about.''>>>

-=-=
While it is good to acknowledge the bad in public schooling it will be better if the parent is focusing
on unschooling, their children and family. 
Focus on joy, focus on learning, focus on relationships.
I would even say that you need to be aware of the good things about public school so you can do better at home
the same way you do not want to repeat the bad parts!
But focusing on all the negative will not help you and your family find a more joyful , loving and connected  way.

-=-=-=-=-


<<<"For better or worse, my decision to withdraw my son from public school came

more from what I wanted him to avoid than from what I wanted to offer; I am
bound and determined to provide an environment that fosters free thought for
my child and protects him from the kind of brainwashing that I had to
endure."">>>

-=-=-=-=-

OK so you withdrew him because of what you did not want but I  ask you did he also want to come home?
Because a kid at home wanting to be at school is as bad as one in school wanting to be home.]
Choices are important. You cannot have freedom if you do not have choices.
Assuming he wants to be home and is happy at home  start by creating that joyful, connected loving  and supportive home.
 Choices are important. Focusing on positive is important.|
Here is a great link:|

http://sandradodd.com/choice%c2%a0


-=-=-=-=-

<<<" I have faith that the rest will take care of itself.">>> 


Unschooling needs more than faith! It needs doing. Deschool yourself!
Connect to your child!
Find joy and peace !
Tend to the relationship you have with your son!
Re discover learning together all over again!
Dive into passions!
Even more important support you son's passions and be there with him!
With love, support, guidance, choices and mindfulness!.
 
Alex Polikowsky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sara Uselton

I like this idea of not forcing it into schoolish language. I also like that it keeps my focus on them, and on bringing a broad array of experiences and materials into their path.


> One
> idea is to consider keeping an informal record of what your kids are up
> to each day-- not in a comprehensive or schoolish way, but simply as a
> record, should need or want it later.  You can jot down under Thursday,
> "watched Totoro, baked cookies, watched birds on the feeder, had a chat
> about japanese vs. american architecture, evolution, and what baking
> soda does. Built the Eiffel Tower in Minecraft." 

Randi Lee

i'm glad the question of this topic was asked. we too have this question except not for state law reason, more for our own insanity.
so for newbies like us, is it good to keep a journal where we can translate into schoolish language so our deschooling process go smoother? or will it complicated the process?

also regarding to about school kid wants to be home or not.we are starting to worry about what alex pointed out here - school kid not wanted to be home is as bad as school kid not wanted to be in school. is there a link where i can explore more about this?or advice from anyone? we can't be the only one in this situation...?
our situation is, it seems like our kid has her feet, one on each side after being at home for several months. not sure it's just an adjusting period or more....she didn't asked to come home then(last school year), just showed no interest and scare to continue with school when the situation of no medication = no education got intense. we decided to withdrew her with the reason of how can any child learn when they don't feel safe?
yes. on the low days, we don't feel all that positive about our decision...appreciate all the help, =)

good health and happiness,
randi


--- On Sun, 3/11/12, Sara Uselton <saralouwho@...> wrote:

From: Sara Uselton <saralouwho@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Educational Neglect
To: unschoolingbasics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 11, 2012, 12:30 PM
















 









I like this idea of not forcing it into schoolish language. I also like that it keeps my focus on them, and on bringing a broad array of experiences and materials into their path.



> One

> idea is to consider keeping an informal record of what your kids are up

> to each day-- not in a comprehensive or schoolish way, but simply as a

> record, should need or want it later.  You can jot down under Thursday,

> "watched Totoro, baked cookies, watched birds on the feeder, had a chat

> about japanese vs. american architecture, evolution, and what baking

> soda does. Built the Eiffel Tower in Minecraft." 



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sara Uselton

> How likely is that in your state? Are you on a state homeschoolers or unschoolers list?

Probably very unlikely. I live in Indiana, which is one of the top 4 or 5 easiest states for homeschool. We don't even have to register. We just keep doing what we're dooing.
>
> I used to say we followed her interests rather than mentioning a curriculum. That way if she didn't know something it seemed like she should for her age, I could trot out whatever she was focusing on at the moment.

I like that idea a lot. More accurate, but still leaves the details alone.

> But they can choose how the present how they live depending on who they're talking to.
>
> You can coach them. Come up with some ideas together. Like, "Hey, can we think of some things you guys do that will sound like learning to other people? I think telling them you play video games all day confuses them since most adults don't understand how much learning there is in games."

I love this idea, too. Thanks Joyce!
>

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

 
<<"i'm glad the question of this topic was asked. we too have this question except not for state law reason, more for our own insanity.
so for newbies like us, is it good to keep a journal where we can translate into schoolish language so our deschooling process go smoother? or will it complicated the process?">>>>

I do not recommend keeping a Diary in a schoolish way but keepa folder with all you guys do or even a blog full of pictures and  just  a couple lines of what you guys did , are doing or got to see! If you even need to translate that into educationese than it will be easy. BUt do not write dividing life into subjects!  Just journal! 
Here is a good link :

http://sandradodd.com/kellylovejoy/stages%c2%a0
-=-=-=-=-=-


<<<"also regarding to about school kid wants to be home or not.we are starting to worry about what alex pointed out here - school kid not wanted to be home is as bad as school kid not wanted to be in school. is there a link where i can explore more about this?or advice from anyone? we can't be the only one in this situation...?
our situation is, it seems like our kid has her feet, one on each side after being at home for several months. not sure it's just an adjusting period or more....she didn't asked to come home then(last school year), just showed no interest and scare to continue with school when the situation of no medication = no education got intense. we decided to withdrew her with the reason of how can any child learn when they don't feel safe?
yes. on the low days, we don't feel all that positive about our decision...appreciate all the help, =)">>>>

-=-=-=-

It is all about choices! Have you asked what she wants?
here on school choice:
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice%c2%a0

on choices:
http://sandradodd.com/choice%c2%a0


Have your daughter deschooled yet?  She may not have. Several months can sometimes not be enough!
Also how can she feel positive about being home and unschooling if you do not!?

Deschooling for parents:

http://sandradodd.com/deschooling%c2%a0

YOu will see it when you believe it:
http://sandradodd.com/seeingit%c2%a0

Alex Polikowsky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

"Susan Lervold" <susanlervold@...> wrote:
>I hate it when my son (14 y.o.)
> is put on the spot with, "So, what have you been learning lately?" His
> age-appropriate response is generally, "I dunno," and if I'm within earshot,
> I have to bite my tongue not to jump in with, "Tell him (/her) about (fill
> in the blank)!"

What does your son want from you in those instances? Does he want you to jump to his defense or keep out of it? Would he like to brainstorm with you about some snap answers he can give? Or would he rather stick to the culturally appropriate norm: "I dunno."? Whatever he'd prefer is fine, but it's good to Know what he wants, so you're not biting your tongue when he's thinking "Now would be a good time to say something, Mom!"

>>I get the feeling that it would
> never be enough to satisfy the person asking.or, on the other hand, maybe
> I'm just projecting my own insecurities.

Don't forget that "what are you learning/doing in school?" is The conversation starter when an adult is talking to a kid - the majority of adults don't have Any other way to express interest or caring in a kid friend or relative. In that sense, it can really help family and friends for you to keep a blog or even make regular comments on some social media - snapshots, stories, cute or interesting things your kid says or does. All of those can provide a better conversation starter for someone who actually wants to connect with your son as well as helping them feel connected and part of your life in general.

---Meredith

Meredith

Randi Lee <randily41@...> wrote:
>is it good to keep a journal where we can translate into schoolish language so our deschooling process go smoother? or will it complicated the process?
*****************

There's a lot of "it depends" and "know thyself" in the answer to this question. Will turning what your kids are doing into schoolish language reassure you? Or will you get so bogged down in subjects and levels and criteria it will distract you? Some thoughts and links to other thoughts here:

http://sandradodd.com/subjects

One of the problems with looking for school categories is that natural learning doesn't look like school. You can cram it into school-shaped boxes on a report, but real learning looks like people living their lives. Now and then someone will write in with a question like this: we've been trying to unschool, but my kids aren't learning anything. Woops! that's someone still looking for subjects - it's not actually possible to learn nothing. Here's a nice old essay on "seeing" learning, with a few extra comments at the end about keeping a journal.
http://sandradodd.com/seeingit

Oh! and I see Alex posted the same link, so I'll throw out two of my all time favorite essays on the subject of "what learning looks like".
http://sandradodd.com/puddle
http://sandradodd.com/day/presidents

---Meredith

Meredith

Randi Lee <randily41@...> wrote:
>> our situation is, it seems like our kid has her feet, one on each side after being at home for several months. not sure it's just an adjusting period or more....she didn't asked to come home then(last school year), just showed no interest and scare to continue with school when the situation of no medication = no education got intense
***************

What did she like about school? What does she miss? It may be those are things you can help her have more of at home. If she's missing friends, invite more people over. If she's missing a routine or sense that she knows what's going on, work with her to create routines which help her feel comfortable at home -that may be as simple as regular meals, or a scheduled outing once a week!

For unschooling to work, home has to be better than school. Generally speaking, that's not too difficult - kind of like saying "more interesting than waiting in line at the DMV" or "less stressful than a day in court" ;) When kids miss school, most often they miss the company of lots of other people. If you're daughter is naturally social in that way, it will be more work for you, getting her out and about, finding her places and ways she can be social that work for her. Enlist all the friends and relatives you can in that regard.

Also your daughter may be worried that she's somehow now expected to "teach herself what she needs to know" - that was a concern of Ray's when we brought him home from school and it helped him to know that Wasn't what we expected. I don't recommend trying to explain unschooling to younger kids, but older kids often need some reassurance after years of hearing how they Have To go to school that you're not just giving up on them or expecting them to "naturally" start doing math problems and writing history reports on their own.

---Meredith

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Oh Meredith you reminded me of this one:
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/difference.html%c2%a0


It is a pretty awesome chart and very visual!!
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


________________________________
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
To: unschoolingbasics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 3:13 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Educational Neglect


 
Randi Lee <randily41@...> wrote:
>is it good to keep a journal where we can translate into schoolish language so our deschooling process go smoother? or will it complicated the process?
*****************

There's a lot of "it depends" and "know thyself" in the answer to this question. Will turning what your kids are doing into schoolish language reassure you? Or will you get so bogged down in subjects and levels and criteria it will distract you? Some thoughts and links to other thoughts here:

http://sandradodd.com/subjects

One of the problems with looking for school categories is that natural learning doesn't look like school. You can cram it into school-shaped boxes on a report, but real learning looks like people living their lives. Now and then someone will write in with a question like this: we've been trying to unschool, but my kids aren't learning anything. Woops! that's someone still looking for subjects - it's not actually possible to learn nothing. Here's a nice old essay on "seeing" learning, with a few extra comments at the end about keeping a journal.
http://sandradodd.com/seeingit

Oh! and I see Alex posted the same link, so I'll throw out two of my all time favorite essays on the subject of "what learning looks like".
http://sandradodd.com/puddle
http://sandradodd.com/day/presidents

---Meredith




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Randi Lee

whether i worded my question correctly or you guys understand beyond my words or both, both of you, advices and provided links are couldn't be more right. truly..... appreciated.

alex - i will printed out the list of differences.... it be a great daily reminder for me to be more confident in helping my girls. i am leaning on the reason that she needs to deschool longer and for me much much longer....thanks for your reassurance.

meredith - it seems like you actually have met my girl and spend sometime with her. yes. she missed mostly being with her peers, yes. too used to learning in school environment which she often comment "it's not real learning" and yes. with this unknown freedom to explore, she is translating it and feeling scare with the thought of she needs to teach herself now. i'm in the process of doing things you suggested here BUT was seeking for an encouragement which just what you did for me - thanks!

read the schooling on your own term - I AM not ready for this one, at this moment. i got it. i understand it and totally can see it BUT the bad taste i got from last school year is pretty much still on me.

and sara - sorry if i took over your post.


thank you both again.
randi

--- On Sun, 3/11/12, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:

From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Educational Neglect
To: "unschoolingbasics@yahoogroups.com" <unschoolingbasics@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 11, 2012, 4:28 PM
















 









Oh Meredith you reminded me of this one:

http://sandradodd.com/unschool/difference.html%c2%a0



It is a pretty awesome chart and very visual!!

 

Alex Polikowsky

 

 

 



________________________________

From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>

To: unschoolingbasics@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 3:13 PM

Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Educational Neglect





 

Randi Lee <randily41@...> wrote:

>is it good to keep a journal where we can translate into schoolish language so our deschooling process go smoother? or will it complicated the process?

*****************



There's a lot of "it depends" and "know thyself" in the answer to this question. Will turning what your kids are doing into schoolish language reassure you? Or will you get so bogged down in subjects and levels and criteria it will distract you? Some thoughts and links to other thoughts here:



http://sandradodd.com/subjects



One of the problems with looking for school categories is that natural learning doesn't look like school. You can cram it into school-shaped boxes on a report, but real learning looks like people living their lives. Now and then someone will write in with a question like this: we've been trying to unschool, but my kids aren't learning anything. Woops! that's someone still looking for subjects - it's not actually possible to learn nothing. Here's a nice old essay on "seeing" learning, with a few extra comments at the end about keeping a journal.

http://sandradodd.com/seeingit



Oh! and I see Alex posted the same link, so I'll throw out two of my all time favorite essays on the subject of "what learning looks like".

http://sandradodd.com/puddle

http://sandradodd.com/day/presidents



---Meredith



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]