jimmetycricket

Hi All,
I've been a long-time lurker of this group & have gained a lot from the wise advice that is offered. This is my first post.

I'm uncertain about how to handle the way my son, 9, behaves when his toddler nieces come to visit. They live close by & we see them regularly (although I have avoided seeing them for a while now). He never wants to see them & when they come over he puts all his toys away & doesn't want to share things with them. He doesn't want them on the trampoline. When they come to cuddle him he doesn't want them to. He is an only child & pretty used to having things how he wants them. And he struggles I think with the girls being how toddlers often are - loud, active, messy. But sometimes they're sweet & smiling & just want to play with him. But even then he will usually just want them to go away & leave him alone. I can understand that sometimes he is bored because things tend to revolve around the needs of the girls & also my sister rarely makes an effort to connect with my son. But they are family & we will be spending time together & I want to find a way that works.

When I talk about it with him he becomes very indignant. He is a very strong willed person & resents being told what to do in any way shape or form. Even discussing conflict can be difficult - although we can often do it better as he has gotten older.

I see his behaviour as unkind & I also feel embarrassed by it at times.

Please help.

Schuyler

He doesn't like your house guests. Can you work to meet up less at your house and more at places where they can play together or separately more easily? Like the zoo or parks or at a beach or a lake or McDonalds with a play area or a science museum or anywhere but your house? That way it isn't an invasion, it isn't folks he doesn't like playing with his stuff and sharing his space coming over again and again and again. It be like if your husband brought over someone you didn't like again and again and didn't understand why you got irritated when they kept pestering you and touching your stuff and wanting you to hang out.

They will get older and it will get easier for your son to deal with them. He will grow older and will be more empathetic as he does so. Right now, protect his space and his stuff and find other places to meet up and other things to do so that he isn't feeling like he has to budge up and fit his life around them.


Schuyler



________________________________


I'm uncertain about how to handle the way my son, 9, behaves when his toddler nieces come to visit. They live close by & we see them regularly (although I have avoided seeing them for a while now). He never wants to see them & when they come over he puts all his toys away & doesn't want to share things with them. He doesn't want them on the trampoline. When they come to cuddle him he doesn't want them to. He is an only child & pretty used to having things how he wants them. And he struggles I think with the girls being how toddlers often are - loud, active, messy. But sometimes they're sweet & smiling & just want to play with him. But even then he will usually just want them to go away & leave him alone. I can understand that sometimes he is bored because things tend to revolve around the needs of the girls & also my sister rarely makes an effort to connect with my son. But they are family & we will be spending time together & I want to find a way that
works.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

"jimmetycricket" <lisa0@...> wrote:
>they are family & we will be spending time together

That sounds pretty final! Sometimes it can help with extended family issues to step back from the idea of "family" and ask "how would I deal with this if these people weren't related to me?" Do you regularly require your son to play with young girls whether or not he enjoys it? Do you think requiring him to play with kids he doesn't like in general will engender love for those children?

If you want to spend time with your sister and can't find a way to do it without the kids, look for ways to make that easier on your son. Meet in "neutral territory" where he doesn't feel as though his home is being invaded. Go places such that he can do his own thing, rather than being set up to feel stuck hanging around with people who don't share his skills and interests. If you don't push them at his so much, maybe in time he'll have a more congenial perspective toward his cousins, especially as they grow older and aren't so inclined to be in his face, invading his personal space and using his things.

---Meredith

Kelly Lovejoy

I had one child who adored babies and all children younger---even when he was a toddler. ALways so gentle and loving.


I had another who has never cared for younger children---until just a few years ago (he's 16 now). He didn't want them in his room, near his things, or even in the house. He would consent to having littlers in the house is I could promise he wouldn't have to interact with them.


By understanding and accepting his need for space and his irritation of all beings younger, he's grown into a very empathetic young man who even "coos" at babies now.



I'd make sure he didn't have to share his space. "Neutral" territory (parks, zoos, McDonalds) can be life savers.




Also---be sure to bring handheld games or books or whatever he likes if you *must* be in a non-neutral spot. That way he can *get away*.


Not everyone likes babies. And no one likes *everyone*. We shouldn't have to be made to "play nice."


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson



-----Original Message-----
From: jimmetycricket <lisa0@...>
To: unschoolingbasics <[email protected]>

Hi All,
I've been a long-time lurker of this group & have gained a lot from the wise
advice that is offered. This is my first post.

I'm uncertain about how to handle the way my son, 9, behaves when his toddler
nieces come to visit. They live close by & we see them regularly (although I
have avoided seeing them for a while now). He never wants to see them & when
they come over he puts all his toys away & doesn't want to share things with
them. He doesn't want them on the trampoline. When they come to cuddle him he
doesn't want them to. He is an only child & pretty used to having things how he
wants them. And he struggles I think with the girls being how toddlers often are
- loud, active, messy. But sometimes they're sweet & smiling & just want to play
with him. But even then he will usually just want them to go away & leave him
alone. I can understand that sometimes he is bored because things tend to
revolve around the needs of the girls & also my sister rarely makes an effort to
connect with my son. But they are family & we will be spending time together & I
want to find a way that works.

When I talk about it with him he becomes very indignant. He is a very strong
willed person & resents being told what to do in any way shape or form. Even
discussing conflict can be difficult - although we can often do it better as he
has gotten older.

I see his behaviour as unkind & I also feel embarrassed by it at times.

Please help.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

tlbtsrh

My kids do not always like sharing their things, so we have a set of toys that are for visitors - our old building blocks, some toys that I know will interest our visitors - one particularly likes super heros and another dinosaurs, so I keep a few around to help them feel comfortable in my home.

We also have shared spaces such as the living room, kitchen and garden and private spaces - bedrooms. Shared rooms are for our guests as much as for us and we keep bedrooms private/for personal friends(but they are also welcome in the shared areas).

Sarah

Debra Rossing

I know this has been said already several ways but here's my 2 cents anyhow ;-)

If they MUST be at your house (for whatever logistical reasons), work with him to make sure his stuff is put away safely so toddlers can't get at it. On the IL side of the family, DS is 5 yrs older than next cousin who is 5 yrs older than littlest cousin, so now they're 13, 8, 3. Which means that when cousin T was a toddler, DS was around 7. He didn't want T getting into his Legos, cars, etc. So, before T came over to visit, DS and I would go through the 'public' spaces in the house and gather up anything that DS didn't want T to get into. We'd also look for things that might be fun and safe for a toddler (we showed DS the toilet paper tube test for babies/toddlers - if a toy fits through a TP tube, like a Lego brick would, it's a potential choking hazard) - we had a small bin of TP tubes, stuffed critters, etc that we'd have in an accessible, visible, public space. Everything else went into DS' room or got put up in a cupboard. DS' room was/is HIS space - no one goes in there without his OK. So, he could 'retreat' to that space and it was MY job to run interference and make sure that no one, adult or child, tried to invade. Fast forward 5 years to littlest cousin E. DS is quite gentle and fun with her to the point that if he's in the room with her, playing, the adults don't get too concerned because they know he will keep her safe (even from cousin T if he starts getting a bit 'exuberant' in his play) and entertained. That said, however, we make sure he knows that he's not solely responsible and on his own there - he can 'check out' and go do his own thing, and I usually touch base regularly to see how he's doing.

The other thing, as was mentioned, is that for the time being at least, other places besides HIS home might be better for meet ups. And, if the main issue is you and your sister getting together, maybe that needs to be a 'girl's night/spa day' without the kids at all - whether that means evenings and weekends when partners are available or hiring a local teen to hang out with your DS (and she handles logistics for her toddlers) for daytimes.

Deb R



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Melissa Jones

Hi,

I am new to this unschooling way of thinking. I left the rigorous Bourg like mentality of the Charlotte Mason method, which I faithfully implemented for 4 years. I jumped in to the weird and mysterious waters of unschooling with both feet 5 weeks ago. We were all withering under the heavy hand of the CM method. Since that day, we have had so much fun on a daily basis. We actually enjoy one another. I mean, my life, prior to unschooling was filled with controlling my 2 older kids. THat goes without saying if you know anything about the CM method. At least the level I allowed it. Sigh... My dc spent their time trying to escape that control and hack the system. It was exhausting and meaningless. They do see where I was coming from now; that I acted out of the knowledge I had then, and that I was afraid to let unschooling engulf our family. But since then, my kids are happier. Truly. More vivacious, honest, less controlling to one another, better at seeing things through~all these things I tried to manufacture through lessons and stories and chores have naturally shown themselves through my love to them by allowing them to choose. Because they are whole persons. It is so cool. This is not hyperbole, though I am sure it sounds like it. It is so freeing to say truthfully, that my kids are happy with what they are doing. All the guilt from trying to make them happy, put forth the image of being happy, telling myself it is all for "their good", has rolled off my back... I can't read enough about the subject.

Ok, now that you know me a little bit...
We are going through a similar situation. Our church meets in houses, most often my house. It is not an overstatement to say my oldest 2 children hate it. And I am to blame since I never asked them if they wanted to, or when I did mention it, I didn't inform them properly. So they are dealing with the consequences of their parents decission. They do, at least, like the people that come over. For now... But they have had numerous toys broken and Lego creations dissasembled. They usually put away the special toys so that noting happens to them. But sometimes our guests know no bounds and forget that they are guests by getting those sacred creations down and playing with them, ultimately breaking them in some way. Most people, there are a few exceptions, leave the kids with a giant mess afterwards. I guess I have been part of that "most people" group. Until unschooling I rarely offered to help them in their room, on account of the whole "lesson" thing. And we haven't met here since we started unschooling, on account of us falling sick. (I am applying the suggestions to my own situation here.) I love the idea here about re-zoning their rooms as a private place. The grownups meet and fill up our living room-dining room area. There really is nowhere else but their room or my room. My room is off limits. So how can I give the young ones the same freedom? I should say here, that they share a room. Also, we will meet in houses for only a few more months.... Perhaps I need to help them clean it afterwards, or allow my kids the opportunity to say what is off limits. I am thinking outloud. Pay them rent on behalf of the other kids? I don't mean to hijack the converation. I hope that the feedback will overlap and help us both out.

Thanks in advance,
Melissa in AL





On Mar 8, 2012, at 4:09 AM, tlbtsrh wrote:

> My kids do not always like sharing their things, so we have a set of toys that are for visitors - our old building blocks, some toys that I know will interest our visitors - one particularly likes super heros and another dinosaurs, so I keep a few around to help them feel comfortable in my home.
>
> We also have shared spaces such as the living room, kitchen and garden and private spaces - bedrooms. Shared rooms are for our guests as much as for us and we keep bedrooms private/for personal friends(but they are also welcome in the shared areas).
>
> Sarah
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

Melissa Jones <momnerd@...> wrote:
> I love the idea here about re-zoning their rooms as a private place.
****************

It's a good idea. It can also help to remove the most precious of kid toys and projects to their private areas when guests come over. An alternate form of this idea could be to put up baby gates and kind of corral guests into designated areas - that helps adults know what's off limits so they can pass the information on to Their kids, too.

>>Perhaps I need to help them clean it afterwards, or allow my kids the opportunity to say what is off limits.
***************

Both are good ideas - it's important your kids feel that their boundaries are respected by you, at the very least, so go beyond "allowing" them to decide and actually work with them to pick what gets put away etc. Make suggestions of things they don't consider themselves so they know you're taking the situation seriously, and commiserate afterwards if others are less than perfectly respectful of their space and things. And absolutely help them clean - in fact, I'd go further and clean up sweetly afterwards without asking their help at all. Think of the gatherings as a kind of party you're hosting without a room-mate's consent and it may help you understand your kids' perspective better - and how to approach them on the subject.

---Meredith

[email protected]

I love the idea here about re-zoning their rooms as a private place. The grownups meet and fill up our living room-dining room area. There really is nowhere else but their room or my room. My room is off limits. So how can I give the young ones the same freedom?

******How do you manage to make your room off limits? Could you do the same thing for their room? Locks on the doors?

Nance

Debra Rossing

Since you've got limited space, is there a way to 'wall off' some things or get really large bins to store things in? We've put entire Lego constructions into big Rubbermaid bins 'whole' - or at least divided in a reasonable way (the left half and the right half so it's easy to reassemble later). If you maybe get a long shower curtain type rod that you can hang so that you can divide off a section of their room as 'off limits' - and then YOU (as the adult) need to help them 'police' that so that other adults and kids stay out of the curtained off space. For that matter, if your church group is meeting there, shouldn't there be at least one adult supervising the kids/providing them with a similar fellowship experience? I've met in home church groups at times, and invariably there was a rotation of the adults (one or two per week, per month, whatever worked) who were in charge of supervising the kids in the 'kid space' wherever that was, if the kids weren't included 100% of the time with the adults. At the very least, a few of the oldest (teenagers) were designated as 'babysitters' (and compensated for their time/effort).

Deb R



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Melissa Jones

I probably will do that after we try a week of Meredith's suggestions...that is, if they want to do it that way. They may prefer me to go ahead and lock the doors. I just would like the opportunity to show love and understanding through making suggestions on which toys to put away, ones they hadn't thought of yet.
And I also want to opportunity to clean their rooms for them, by myself, as a "thank you" to them. I want an opportunity to speak these ideas to them through my actions. I think it vividly illustrates my devotion to them; that I am their advocate. (I am not talking at you, Nance. I am just thinking this through again.) It amazes me that it never occurred to me to allow their room to be off limits, as I allow mine. I'm learning!

Thanks for the advice.
Warmly,
Melissa

On Mar 9, 2012, at 5:58 AM, marbleface@... wrote:

> I love the idea here about re-zoning their rooms as a private place. The grownups meet and fill up our living room-dining room area. There really is nowhere else but their room or my room. My room is off limits. So how can I give the young ones the same freedom?
>
> ******How do you manage to make your room off limits? Could you do the same thing for their room? Locks on the doors?
>
> Nance
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jimmetycricket

Thank you all for your responses. It is so helpful just to remember to see things from his perspective. It is particularly reassuring for me to hear of children feeling like this at a younger age & then becoming more empathic as they grow older & to have one child who is this way inclined while the sibling is not.

The situation feels complicated for me on an emotional level as, firstly, my sister has been somewhat judgemental of my parenting choices & secondly I do feel to a certain degree that I have , in the past, revolved everything around the needs of my son sometimes at the expense of others. I don't feel that I do this anymore but it was a big learning curve for me to realise that I was doing him a great disservice by treating him as if his needs were more important than the needs of others.

So when he behaves with his cousins in this way I feel the judgement of my parenting & of my son's character from my sister & I have my own insecurities that his behaviour is a result of my parenting issues with not guiding my son to be aware of the needs of others. These thoughts occur in an almost subconscious way but they trigger some really unpleasant emotions in my body that basically affects my ability to think clearly & handle the situation very well.

I think the suggestions are great & I think meeting up elsewhere may help & taking a computer game that he can go off with when he needs to retreat. And also shortening our visits I think would help.

It is just a relief to feel like it's not my fault & that it's OK that he feels like that & I just need to help him. This is what I need to remind myself of so that if I'm in that situation again I'm not overwhelmed by my emotional baggage.
Thanks again.

--- In [email protected], Debra Rossing <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>
> I know this has been said already several ways but here's my 2 cents anyhow ;-)
>
> If they MUST be at your house (for whatever logistical reasons), work with him to make sure his stuff is put away safely so toddlers can't get at it. On the IL side of the family, DS is 5 yrs older than next cousin who is 5 yrs older than littlest cousin, so now they're 13, 8, 3. Which means that when cousin T was a toddler, DS was around 7. He didn't want T getting into his Legos, cars, etc. So, before T came over to visit, DS and I would go through the 'public' spaces in the house and gather up anything that DS didn't want T to get into. We'd also look for things that might be fun and safe for a toddler (we showed DS the toilet paper tube test for babies/toddlers - if a toy fits through a TP tube, like a Lego brick would, it's a potential choking hazard) - we had a small bin of TP tubes, stuffed critters, etc that we'd have in an accessible, visible, public space. Everything else went into DS' room or got put up in a cupboard. DS' room was/is HIS space - no one goes in there without his OK. So, he could 'retreat' to that space and it was MY job to run interference and make sure that no one, adult or child, tried to invade. Fast forward 5 years to littlest cousin E. DS is quite gentle and fun with her to the point that if he's in the room with her, playing, the adults don't get too concerned because they know he will keep her safe (even from cousin T if he starts getting a bit 'exuberant' in his play) and entertained. That said, however, we make sure he knows that he's not solely responsible and on his own there - he can 'check out' and go do his own thing, and I usually touch base regularly to see how he's doing.
>
> The other thing, as was mentioned, is that for the time being at least, other places besides HIS home might be better for meet ups. And, if the main issue is you and your sister getting together, maybe that needs to be a 'girl's night/spa day' without the kids at all - whether that means evenings and weekends when partners are available or hiring a local teen to hang out with your DS (and she handles logistics for her toddlers) for daytimes.
>
> Deb R
>
>
>
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[email protected]

Hmmm. . . I admit I haven't read every line of this thread but I hope the message that was sent was not to tell your son that his needs are not more important to you than the company's needs. He looks to you to be on his side. That's one thing he needs. Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it was his stuff being messed up and his space being invaded and his need is to have that stop.

Nance


--- In [email protected], "jimmetycricket" <lisa0@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you all for your responses. It is so helpful just to remember to see things from his perspective. It is particularly reassuring for me to hear of children feeling like this at a younger age & then becoming more empathic as they grow older & to have one child who is this way inclined while the sibling is not.
>
> The situation feels complicated for me on an emotional level as, firstly, my sister has been somewhat judgemental of my parenting choices & secondly I do feel to a certain degree that I have , in the past, revolved everything around the needs of my son sometimes at the expense of others. I don't feel that I do this anymore but it was a big learning curve for me to realise that I was doing him a great disservice by treating him as if his needs were more important than the needs of others.
>

Melissa Jones

This is a good idea too. There are many things they don't want to share. So storage bins might be the thing. We all meet together as families for the study, but if some kids want to wander off and play together, none of us have any problem with it. There are a mixture of older and younger kids, which works out nice during the play time afterwards. They all watch out for one another. Nothing formal. My house is small~you can sit in the living room and feel like you are in the kids rooms don't know that my kids have expressed much about what their expectations are to my guests. I will make sure they know to do this now. Thank you for helping me think this through. They have grown up so "respectful" to guests and other's needs, that they have lost their own needs in this scenario... I should have seen this for what it is. And there has been occasions when my ds has told someone "no" to a toy and that child will still do what they please. It sounds like I may need to implement a few rules for all the kids at the beginning of each study that occurs at my house. Other kids seem to have no problem standing up and getting into someones face if they want to. As far as I know off limit items are not a problem at other homes. I should peek in from time to time, in an obvious way, for my kids. Also, give them freedom during the study to come tell me if their boundaries are being crossed. Most of the kids are likely to respect the boundaries after an adult reinforces them... Which is sad that my kids opinions are not that important to a few... Or i could re-think the whole thing and stay in there with them, if that is needed. That is, after I implement the "locked door" policy. But if they prefer me to stay in there, I surely will. Thank you for the advice.

Melissa in AL




On Mar 9, 2012, at 7:10 AM, Debra Rossing wrote:

> Since you've got limited space, is there a way to 'wall off' some things or get really large bins to store things in? We've put entire Lego constructions into big Rubbermaid bins 'whole' - or at least divided in a reasonable way (the left half and the right half so it's easy to reassemble later). If you maybe get a long shower curtain type rod that you can hang so that you can divide off a section of their room as 'off limits' - and then YOU (as the adult) need to help them 'police' that so that other adults and kids stay out of the curtained off space. For that matter, if your church group is meeting there, shouldn't there be at least one adult supervising the kids/providing them with a similar fellowship experience? I've met in home church groups at times, and invariably there was a rotation of the adults (one or two per week, per month, whatever worked) who were in charge of supervising the kids in the 'kid space' wherever that was, if the kids weren't included 100% of the time with the adults. At the very least, a few of the oldest (teenagers) were designated as 'babysitters' (and compensated for their time/effort).
>
> Deb R
>
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