Unschooling legal, but...
Jill Finkenbine
I've always felt that since unschooling works under Ohio law, it was
obviously legal to do. I didn't think it through as far as even though it
is legal, that doesn't mean someone isn't going to drag your name through
the mud if your children are behind others their age.
I know that what I"ve done is best for our children and that they will learn
as they are ready. But they may not have that chance. We really have no
choice but to pay a tutor or send them to school.
I told the girls last night that there are angels in the middle of every
tornado. I realize there are angels in the middle of this storm too.
Jill K
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
obviously legal to do. I didn't think it through as far as even though it
is legal, that doesn't mean someone isn't going to drag your name through
the mud if your children are behind others their age.
I know that what I"ve done is best for our children and that they will learn
as they are ready. But they may not have that chance. We really have no
choice but to pay a tutor or send them to school.
I told the girls last night that there are angels in the middle of every
tornado. I realize there are angels in the middle of this storm too.
Jill K
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JJ
I want to be sure this list doesn't leave standing any misinterpretation of unschooling as daily math and reading lessons presented for years until finally the children "learn as they are ready." That may be some sort of "chance" but it isn't unschooling.
--- In [email protected], Jill Finkenbine <peace.goodwill@...> wrote:
>
> I've always felt that since unschooling works under Ohio law, it was
> obviously legal to do. I didn't think it through as far as even though it
> is legal, that doesn't mean someone isn't going to drag your name through
> the mud if your children are behind others their age.
>
> I know that what I"ve done is best for our children and that they will learn
> as they are ready. But they may not have that chance. We really have no
> choice but to pay a tutor or send them to school.
>
> I told the girls last night that there are angels in the middle of every
> tornado. I realize there are angels in the middle of this storm too.
>
> Jill K
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Jill Finkenbine
They were 9 1/2 and 10 3/4 before I started working with them on reading and
10 and 11 for math.
10 and 11 for math.
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:35 AM, JJ <jrossedd@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> I want to be sure this list doesn't leave standing any misinterpretation of
> unschooling as daily math and reading lessons presented for years until
> finally the children "learn as they are ready." That may be some sort of
> "chance" but it isn't unschooling.
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Jill Finkenbine <peace.goodwill@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I've always felt that since unschooling works under Ohio law, it was
> > obviously legal to do. I didn't think it through as far as even though it
> > is legal, that doesn't mean someone isn't going to drag your name through
> > the mud if your children are behind others their age.
> >
> > I know that what I"ve done is best for our children and that they will
> learn
> > as they are ready. But they may not have that chance. We really have no
> > choice but to pay a tutor or send them to school.
> >
> > I told the girls last night that there are angels in the middle of every
> > tornado. I realize there are angels in the middle of this storm too.
> >
> > Jill K
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JJ
The only connection I can draw between what was presented as a request for unschooling support and what was described about this family's learning situation, is that perhaps mom delayed academics and thought that was unschooling? And then concluded under a series of conventional pressures that further delay wasn't practical, wasn't working well enough soon enough, et cetera. Which makes self-evident why delayed academics is not unschooling in the first place.
>
> They were 9 1/2 and 10 3/4 before I started working with them on reading and
> 10 and 11 for math.
>
> >
> > I want to be sure this list doesn't leave standing any misinterpretation of
> > unschooling as daily math and reading lessons presented for years until
> > finally the children "learn as they are ready." That may be some sort of
> > "chance" but it isn't unschooling.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I know that what I"ve done is best for our children and that they will
> > learn
> > > as they are ready. But they may not have that chance. We really have no
> > > choice but to pay a tutor or send them to school.
> > >
> > > I told the girls last night that there are angels in the middle of every
> > > tornado. I realize there are angels in the middle of this storm too.
plaidpanties666
Jill Finkenbine <peace.goodwill@...> wrote:
Local groups are a Great resource for understanding the ins and outs of your local laws and loopholes. Don't stick to just unschooling groups if you need help in this area - look for any homeschool group you can find. This group (U.Basics) isn't such a great resource in that regards because its an international list, with members struggling to unschool in places where even homeschooling isn't necessarily legal.
What I love most about *radical* unschooling is that limits don't have to be end points, they can be chances to re-orient and discover something new.
---Meredith
>It's confusing, for sure! It's *possible* to make unschooling work in every state in the US as well as in some other countries - but "possible" isn't a guarantee. It takes resources. I don't mean money, necessarily; if anything the support of people around you can make or break your ability to feel confident enough to unschool. And one essential resource for unschoolers is the ability to navigate local legal challenges because *homeschooling* isn't always technically legal in and of itself (you have to join an umbrella school, or register as a private school, for instance) and even in places where it is, unschooling often needs to be buried in the loopholes in order to be legitimate.
> I've always felt that since unschooling works under Ohio law, it was
> obviously legal to do.
Local groups are a Great resource for understanding the ins and outs of your local laws and loopholes. Don't stick to just unschooling groups if you need help in this area - look for any homeschool group you can find. This group (U.Basics) isn't such a great resource in that regards because its an international list, with members struggling to unschool in places where even homeschooling isn't necessarily legal.
> I didn't think it through as far as even though itHave you had a conversation with your evaluator, yet? It seems like you are painting things very black from fear. One of the resources vital to unschooling is confidence in yourself and your children. It's hard to maintain that confidence when people around you aren't being supportive, but at the same time the way you communicate with those people can make a big difference. If you are hostile and defensive, they'll worry that you really do have something to hide.
> is legal, that doesn't mean someone isn't going to drag your name through
> the mud if your children are behind others their age.
> We really have noThis is where local support will be more helpful to you than an international list like this. We can give you pep-talks and say "I bet there are other options!" and the like, but you need real nuts-and-bolts information as well. Go looking. Stand up for your kids. Find or create options that work better for you. Sometimes unschoolers Do end up compromising in order to live in the world but it doesn't need to be a disaster. You can see the situation as an opportunity to learn new things, make new connections, touch base with what's important to you in deep, profound ways.
> choice but to pay a tutor or send them to school.
What I love most about *radical* unschooling is that limits don't have to be end points, they can be chances to re-orient and discover something new.
---Meredith
Jill Finkenbine
I am only trying to make the point that some children learn later than
others, even in an unschooling situation. Others are looking at my children
and assuming they are behind in reading and math because I didn't sit them
down daily since they were kindergarten age and force them to do lessons
like "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons." I've read plenty of
books about unschooling, I know what it is.
Jill K
others, even in an unschooling situation. Others are looking at my children
and assuming they are behind in reading and math because I didn't sit them
down daily since they were kindergarten age and force them to do lessons
like "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons." I've read plenty of
books about unschooling, I know what it is.
Jill K
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 10:37 AM, JJ <jrossedd@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> The only connection I can draw between what was presented as a request for
> unschooling support and what was described about this family's learning
> situation, is that perhaps mom delayed academics and thought that was
> unschooling? And then concluded under a series of conventional pressures
> that further delay wasn't practical, wasn't working well enough soon enough,
> et cetera. Which makes self-evident why delayed academics is not unschooling
> in the first place.
>
>
> >
> > They were 9 1/2 and 10 3/4 before I started working with them on reading
> and
> > 10 and 11 for math.
> >
>
> > >
> > > I want to be sure this list doesn't leave standing any
> misinterpretation of
> > > unschooling as daily math and reading lessons presented for years until
> > > finally the children "learn as they are ready." That may be some sort
> of
> > > "chance" but it isn't unschooling.
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
> > > > I know that what I"ve done is best for our children and that they
> will
> > > learn
> > > > as they are ready. But they may not have that chance. We really have
> no
> > > > choice but to pay a tutor or send them to school.
> > > >
> > > > I told the girls last night that there are angels in the middle of
> every
> > > > tornado. I realize there are angels in the middle of this storm too.
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JJ
Unschoolers get that, no need to tell US! :)
That isn't what you've posted, though -- if you as a not-unschooler, seek unschooler support to help you make that point to others not unschooling, all so you can continue not-unschooling as you see fit (in the process confusing all those reading who do want to unschool successfully and are working out how to make it work in their families) then the point that needs making here, is how sitting children down to force them to do lessons, at any age, leads away from unschooling. Not toward it.
I can't imagine you've read unschooling books that advise otherwise.
That isn't what you've posted, though -- if you as a not-unschooler, seek unschooler support to help you make that point to others not unschooling, all so you can continue not-unschooling as you see fit (in the process confusing all those reading who do want to unschool successfully and are working out how to make it work in their families) then the point that needs making here, is how sitting children down to force them to do lessons, at any age, leads away from unschooling. Not toward it.
I can't imagine you've read unschooling books that advise otherwise.
>
> I am only trying to make the point that some children learn later than
> others, even in an unschooling situation. Others are looking at my children
> and assuming they are behind in reading and math because I didn't sit them
> down daily since they were kindergarten age and force them to do lessons
> like "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons." I've read plenty of
> books about unschooling, I know what it is.
>
>
plaidpanties666
Jill Finkenbine <peace.goodwill@...> wrote:
Because the focus of this list is the core of unschooling - how children learn and how we can support them - people will challenge statements that seem to assume that "learning" can be broken up into subjects like math and reading, or that reading requires a knowledge of phonics or that math is about arithmetic. You've written some things which imply you're more interested in a gentler way to present those kinds of topics to your kids, and if that's true this list likely isn't a good fit for you. It's a place to move Away from "learning opportunites" and toward seeing living and learning and relationships as all part of a big, wonderful whole.
You also implied that "100% unschooling" looks like doing nothing, which couldn't be more wrong - and I think that's what JJ is trying to get at. Maybe that wasn't what you meant, but it "read" that way and its really important to many longtime whole life unschoolers to correct that misperception Because it leads to some of the same kinds of problems you're running into.
You *seemed* to be asking for help with reporting what you do in a way that works with local regulations, though - or maybe complaining and looking for some sympathy. Neither of those are bad things, but they are beyond the scope of this list. It's not a social or legal issues list, its a "help me get past the school in my head so I can be a better partner to my kids" list.
"If you're familiar with radical unschooling in theory, but unsure of how to begin or wondering how living without chores, bedtimes or imposed limits on electronics and food really looks like, this is a place for you to discuss, question, ponder and become deeply familiar with natural learning and how it affects our entire lives. From parenting issues to learning from the whole wide world and beyond, come explore the issues that unschooling families have dealt with in the past and how to get beyond "school-think" to a joyful unschooling lifestyle!
Whole life/radical unschooling goes well beyond ideas of "teachable moments" and "the world as your classroom" to a view of learning as an inherent part of life itself. If you aren't familiar with radical unschooling, you'll find a wealth of basic information here:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
Newcomers to the philosophy of radical unschooling are encouraged to ask questions, but please take some time to read and get a "feel" for the list before posting. Whole life unschooling goes so far beyond academics that it involves a whole different approach to family relationships. Everything you think you know is about to be questioned. "
---Meredith
>I think what you're missing is that this group has a focus on unschooling at its most fundamental. In that sense, it isn't true that "some children learn later" - children are learning all the time! They don't all learn the same things at the same time or rate, though, certainly. I think you might know that, but its worth keeping in mind Especially if you're feeling threatened.
> I am only trying to make the point that some children learn later than
> others, even in an unschooling situation.
Because the focus of this list is the core of unschooling - how children learn and how we can support them - people will challenge statements that seem to assume that "learning" can be broken up into subjects like math and reading, or that reading requires a knowledge of phonics or that math is about arithmetic. You've written some things which imply you're more interested in a gentler way to present those kinds of topics to your kids, and if that's true this list likely isn't a good fit for you. It's a place to move Away from "learning opportunites" and toward seeing living and learning and relationships as all part of a big, wonderful whole.
You also implied that "100% unschooling" looks like doing nothing, which couldn't be more wrong - and I think that's what JJ is trying to get at. Maybe that wasn't what you meant, but it "read" that way and its really important to many longtime whole life unschoolers to correct that misperception Because it leads to some of the same kinds of problems you're running into.
>> Others are looking at my childrenIt might be helpful to articulate what you want from this list. If you want stories of other families where kids' obvious skills don't line up with conventional academics in order to boost your confidence so you can be a better partner, I know we have list members who can share those kinds of stories.
> and assuming they are behind in reading and math because I didn't sit them
> down daily since they were kindergarten age and force them to do lessons
You *seemed* to be asking for help with reporting what you do in a way that works with local regulations, though - or maybe complaining and looking for some sympathy. Neither of those are bad things, but they are beyond the scope of this list. It's not a social or legal issues list, its a "help me get past the school in my head so I can be a better partner to my kids" list.
> I've read plenty ofYou might want to re-read the list description, though - its easy to see "unschooling basics" and click "join" with a bunch of misconceptions about what this list is for/about. It says:
> books about unschooling, I know what it is.
"If you're familiar with radical unschooling in theory, but unsure of how to begin or wondering how living without chores, bedtimes or imposed limits on electronics and food really looks like, this is a place for you to discuss, question, ponder and become deeply familiar with natural learning and how it affects our entire lives. From parenting issues to learning from the whole wide world and beyond, come explore the issues that unschooling families have dealt with in the past and how to get beyond "school-think" to a joyful unschooling lifestyle!
Whole life/radical unschooling goes well beyond ideas of "teachable moments" and "the world as your classroom" to a view of learning as an inherent part of life itself. If you aren't familiar with radical unschooling, you'll find a wealth of basic information here:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
Newcomers to the philosophy of radical unschooling are encouraged to ask questions, but please take some time to read and get a "feel" for the list before posting. Whole life unschooling goes so far beyond academics that it involves a whole different approach to family relationships. Everything you think you know is about to be questioned. "
---Meredith