Questions about balancing food choice and bedtimes
melgqd
Hi All,
My family has just finished our first week of deschooling. My sons are 9 and 5. We have recently relaxed our rules about food, T.V. and bedtimes. I have not found my way yet with these changes and have a few questions for the group.
First, is it part of the idea of food freedom that the kids have the responsibility for preparing some of their food? I know people talk about having lots of food choices in the house for kids to access themselves, but is part of the goal that they gain the power of being able to make it for themselves? The side note is that I feel like I'm in the kitchen a lot making snacks and meals.
Second, my husband and I were used to having the 9 10pm hour for visiting or watching adult programming (not "True Blood" or anything just more adult language and situation that I'd like my 5 yo to see). Previously the kids would have been in bed at that point. Now my 5 yo likes to come out and fall asleep next to me on the couch. Often this is fine but, and here is the question, how does one handle the situations when it is not okay for him to be out with us because we have decided to watch something inappropriate for him. Is it enough to say that he doesn't have to go to sleep, but he has to stay out of the living room because we are watching such and so and it might be too scary or have bad language or whatever? I think that I'm trying to find the balance between their needs and my needs and need a bit of guidance for outside.
Thanks for listening,
Melissa
My family has just finished our first week of deschooling. My sons are 9 and 5. We have recently relaxed our rules about food, T.V. and bedtimes. I have not found my way yet with these changes and have a few questions for the group.
First, is it part of the idea of food freedom that the kids have the responsibility for preparing some of their food? I know people talk about having lots of food choices in the house for kids to access themselves, but is part of the goal that they gain the power of being able to make it for themselves? The side note is that I feel like I'm in the kitchen a lot making snacks and meals.
Second, my husband and I were used to having the 9 10pm hour for visiting or watching adult programming (not "True Blood" or anything just more adult language and situation that I'd like my 5 yo to see). Previously the kids would have been in bed at that point. Now my 5 yo likes to come out and fall asleep next to me on the couch. Often this is fine but, and here is the question, how does one handle the situations when it is not okay for him to be out with us because we have decided to watch something inappropriate for him. Is it enough to say that he doesn't have to go to sleep, but he has to stay out of the living room because we are watching such and so and it might be too scary or have bad language or whatever? I think that I'm trying to find the balance between their needs and my needs and need a bit of guidance for outside.
Thanks for listening,
Melissa
mitrisue
Hi, Melissa.
I ask for help or for them to do something themselves when it occurs to me. When they decline and still want the food, I get it.
Wishing you a smooth transition,
Julie
> First, is it part of the idea of food freedom that the kids have the > responsibility for preparing some of their food? I know people talk > about having lots of food choices in the house for kids to accessThere's no responsibility, but there is the fact that if I set our food up in a way that gives them easy access, they have the power to get things for themselves.
> themselves, but is part of the goal that they gain the power of
> being able to make it for themselves?
> The side note is that I feel like I'm in the kitchen a lot makingThe food thing is a large part of what I do. Lately, though, I've dropped some of my own fussiness over food, which has eased the load on me. I used to make elaborate snack platters so I would feel right about my kids having access to good food all the time. Now I've scaled that back, tuned into the kids themselves more, and focused more on what they might need/want at a particular moment. I still do platters, just not with such fervor.
> snacks and meals.
I ask for help or for them to do something themselves when it occurs to me. When they decline and still want the food, I get it.
> Often this is fine but, and here is the question, how does oneIf I'm feeling off about something I'm watching, I turn it off. I also take the time to examine where my off feeling came from. It's always a chance to see my own fears and examine whether our not they have any basis.
> handle the situations when it is not okay for him to be out with us > because we have decided to watch something inappropriate for him.
> Is it enough to say that he doesn't have to go to sleep, but he has > to stay out of the living room because we are watching such and soIf I tell Mitri (5), "This is here, but you can't have it," it's going to become a fascinating object for him. Are you at all open to watching his reaction to having it on? I've found that "American Dad" is fine for Mitri. I turned the first-day earthquake coverage off. Why did I do that? Did I have a good instinct about what would be too much for him, or was it too much for me? If he had asked me to turn it on, I would have done it.
> and it might be too scary or have bad language or whatever?
> I think that I'm trying to find the balance between their needs and > my needs and need a bit of guidance for outside.I defer my own desires a lot. Calling my needs "my perceived needs" helps me get into that question of what I truly need. I also jump at any chance to do something fulfilling for me (or me and dh) when it looks like the kids are occupied and not needing us. This means that the toilet does not get cleaned as often. If someone is going to suffer here, it's going to be the toilet!
Wishing you a smooth transition,
Julie
Schuyler
By relax, do you mean say yes more, or do you mean you told your boys you were
changing all things at once and they could stay up until they were ready to go
to bed and eat whatever and whenever they wanted? If the former, brilliant, if
the latter, you may want to just breathe deep for a little while as you ride
the wild ride of their excitement at this sudden sense of freedom.
Eventually a child will grow into an adult who will prepare their own food. But
that's a long time between 9 and adult and an even longer time between 5 and
adult. I think that the idea that there will be some quick and easy things to
grab that are yummy and run a smallish gamut of choices is about making it
easier to get food when hungry. When Simon and Linnaea were younger they needed
to eat much, much more frequently than they do now. Of course now they are on a
slightly different sleep/wake cycle than I am which means that I do cook more
meals than I would if we all ate at the same time. I don't know, maybe there was
a point where joy slipped in, I mean, sure, sometimes I'm tired and I don't want
to cook pasta or bread and beans and cheese or whatever it is, but mostly I like
feeding Simon and Linnaea.
What ways can you make it easier? Often cooking things up early in the day when
you aren't tired. Cakes and cookies, bagels and breads, challah is a lovely
snack and it looks so pretty, cut up vegetables that your kids like and keep
them floating in water in the fridge so that they are easy to grab, and still
crisp and fresh. It's good for carrots and celery and cauliflower and broccoli
and you can have a bottle of ranch dressing or some hummus or something that is
a quick and yummy small meal. Apples and cheese, frozen grapes, frozen peas,
peanut butter crackers, honey on crackers. Lots of easy and quick things to put
together when you see a child moving toward hungry. At 5 the need for energy is
greater than the size of the stomach, so hungry is a bigger constant. And at 9,
moving toward the big growth spurts of the prepubertal and than pubertal years,
lots of need for food. There are better lists than my moment of thinking
available. Maybe something someone else has written will help you to see ways to
5 minutes of prep instead of seeing yourself as trapped in the kitchen:
http://sandradodd.com/eating/protein or
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter or
http://www.joyfullyrejoycing.com/influencing%20kid%20behavior/food/convenientsnacks.html.
Evenings alone? I don't even know how to address that one. David and I don't
have time alone in the evening. We get it in the morning, right now we are
sitting on separate couches, with own laptops, and Simon and Linnaea are still
sleeping. I've read a couple of Philip Larkin poems to him and we've talked
about Truman Capote for a moment or two. But our time is, and has been for a
long time, in the margins of our family time. And the margins have become bigger
as Simon and Linnaea have grown. But the margins usually included cooking
together in the kitchen. Those conversations with one another as we made dinner
were largely between the two of us. We never really watched television that we
weren't really willing to share with Simon and Linnaea. I suppose because we'd
been doing this for most of Simon's and Linnaea's lives there was never a time
when we were adjusting to living with their constant presence.
Last night, as I lay in bed, I was thinking about how much more independent they
are. I have to seek connections with them so much more actively than I did when
they were younger. And while they still seek connection with me, they are
growing up and out and away. Inexorably.
Schuyler
Hi All,
My family has just finished our first week of deschooling. My sons are 9 and
5. We have recently relaxed our rules about food, T.V. and bedtimes. I have
not found my way yet with these changes and have a few questions for the group.
First, is it part of the idea of food freedom that the kids have the
responsibility for preparing some of their food? I know people talk about
having lots of food choices in the house for kids to access themselves, but is
part of the goal that they gain the power of being able to make it for
themselves? The side note is that I feel like I'm in the kitchen a lot making
snacks and meals.
Second, my husband and I were used to having the 9 – 10pm hour for visiting or
watching adult programming (not "True Blood" or anything just more adult
language and situation that I'd like my 5 yo to see). Previously the kids would
have been in bed at that point. Now my 5 yo likes to come out and fall asleep
next to me on the couch. Often this is fine but, and here is the question, how
does one handle the situations when it is not okay for him to be out with us
because we have decided to watch something inappropriate for him. Is it enough
to say that he doesn't have to go to sleep, but he has to stay out of the living
room because we are watching such and so and it might be too scary or have bad
language or whatever? I think that I'm trying to find the balance between their
needs and my needs and need a bit of guidance for outside.
Thanks for listening,
Melissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
changing all things at once and they could stay up until they were ready to go
to bed and eat whatever and whenever they wanted? If the former, brilliant, if
the latter, you may want to just breathe deep for a little while as you ride
the wild ride of their excitement at this sudden sense of freedom.
Eventually a child will grow into an adult who will prepare their own food. But
that's a long time between 9 and adult and an even longer time between 5 and
adult. I think that the idea that there will be some quick and easy things to
grab that are yummy and run a smallish gamut of choices is about making it
easier to get food when hungry. When Simon and Linnaea were younger they needed
to eat much, much more frequently than they do now. Of course now they are on a
slightly different sleep/wake cycle than I am which means that I do cook more
meals than I would if we all ate at the same time. I don't know, maybe there was
a point where joy slipped in, I mean, sure, sometimes I'm tired and I don't want
to cook pasta or bread and beans and cheese or whatever it is, but mostly I like
feeding Simon and Linnaea.
What ways can you make it easier? Often cooking things up early in the day when
you aren't tired. Cakes and cookies, bagels and breads, challah is a lovely
snack and it looks so pretty, cut up vegetables that your kids like and keep
them floating in water in the fridge so that they are easy to grab, and still
crisp and fresh. It's good for carrots and celery and cauliflower and broccoli
and you can have a bottle of ranch dressing or some hummus or something that is
a quick and yummy small meal. Apples and cheese, frozen grapes, frozen peas,
peanut butter crackers, honey on crackers. Lots of easy and quick things to put
together when you see a child moving toward hungry. At 5 the need for energy is
greater than the size of the stomach, so hungry is a bigger constant. And at 9,
moving toward the big growth spurts of the prepubertal and than pubertal years,
lots of need for food. There are better lists than my moment of thinking
available. Maybe something someone else has written will help you to see ways to
5 minutes of prep instead of seeing yourself as trapped in the kitchen:
http://sandradodd.com/eating/protein or
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter or
http://www.joyfullyrejoycing.com/influencing%20kid%20behavior/food/convenientsnacks.html.
Evenings alone? I don't even know how to address that one. David and I don't
have time alone in the evening. We get it in the morning, right now we are
sitting on separate couches, with own laptops, and Simon and Linnaea are still
sleeping. I've read a couple of Philip Larkin poems to him and we've talked
about Truman Capote for a moment or two. But our time is, and has been for a
long time, in the margins of our family time. And the margins have become bigger
as Simon and Linnaea have grown. But the margins usually included cooking
together in the kitchen. Those conversations with one another as we made dinner
were largely between the two of us. We never really watched television that we
weren't really willing to share with Simon and Linnaea. I suppose because we'd
been doing this for most of Simon's and Linnaea's lives there was never a time
when we were adjusting to living with their constant presence.
Last night, as I lay in bed, I was thinking about how much more independent they
are. I have to seek connections with them so much more actively than I did when
they were younger. And while they still seek connection with me, they are
growing up and out and away. Inexorably.
Schuyler
Hi All,
My family has just finished our first week of deschooling. My sons are 9 and
5. We have recently relaxed our rules about food, T.V. and bedtimes. I have
not found my way yet with these changes and have a few questions for the group.
First, is it part of the idea of food freedom that the kids have the
responsibility for preparing some of their food? I know people talk about
having lots of food choices in the house for kids to access themselves, but is
part of the goal that they gain the power of being able to make it for
themselves? The side note is that I feel like I'm in the kitchen a lot making
snacks and meals.
Second, my husband and I were used to having the 9 – 10pm hour for visiting or
watching adult programming (not "True Blood" or anything just more adult
language and situation that I'd like my 5 yo to see). Previously the kids would
have been in bed at that point. Now my 5 yo likes to come out and fall asleep
next to me on the couch. Often this is fine but, and here is the question, how
does one handle the situations when it is not okay for him to be out with us
because we have decided to watch something inappropriate for him. Is it enough
to say that he doesn't have to go to sleep, but he has to stay out of the living
room because we are watching such and so and it might be too scary or have bad
language or whatever? I think that I'm trying to find the balance between their
needs and my needs and need a bit of guidance for outside.
Thanks for listening,
Melissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Doug & Melissa Edwards
On Mar 26, 2011, at 1:24 AM, Schuyler wrote:
Thanks for your input.
Melissa
> By relax, do you mean say yes more, or do you mean you told your boys you wereMy boys were always able to eat when they wanted but not necessarily whatever they wanted. I have said yes to more foods that I would have usually said no to. T.V. was very controlled, 2 hours a day. So when I began to say yes to more watching and yes to more food, they grilled me about what was going on. So I had to say something about increasing independence to make choices for oneself. We haven't discussed the bedtime issue. We are just treating it like normal and if someone asks to stay up we are working towards that being okay.
> changing all things at once and they could stay up until they were ready to go
> to bed and eat whatever and whenever they wanted? If the former, brilliant, if
> the latter, you may want to just breathe deep for a little while as you ride
> the wild ride of their excitement at this sudden sense of freedom.
>
Thanks for your input.
Melissa
plaidpanties666
melgqd" <boisei@...> wrote:
*****************
Rather than thinking in terms of "resonsibility" make it easier for them to get their own food. If they tend to like hot food, create portion sized plates that they can toss in the microwave easily. If they like snacky things, finger foods, make up plates and set them out wherever the kids are playing:
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter
Eventually, as they get used to the idea that they can eat when they're hungry and the idea of food preparation becomes less intimidating, they'll move in to making things. But it needn't be a "responsibility". Its something they're learning about little by little, swirling through their days. Invite them to help you cook! But let it be an invitation, not a requirement.
There are two differernt ideas rolled together there - maybe more. Your little guy wants to be with his parents. You don't want him to be in the sort of situation where he sees things that make him unhappy. You also want to watch your show. Do all those things Have to happen at the same time? Can you record that show and watch it the next day while your guy is busy doing something else? Can you watch it on a laptop while he watches something else on the telly? Can you watch with headphones on so he can snuggle without the sound effects and scary music?
What is "appropriate" for a 5yo depends entirely on the individual child. When Mo was 6, she was watching CSI with me, and leaving the room for the sex scenes and conversational scenes - boring adult stuff, call me when there's a new body, mom. At the same age (maybe older) she couldn't watch the children's movie Bridge to Terebithia because there were too many scenes of adults shouting at children. So it could be you're making a lot of assumptions about what you think is appropriate for little kids in general without really having a sense of what your guy would find scary or offensive or a reason to ask a thousand terribly awkward questions right when the action heats up - and what he'd just find baffling or dull. A lot of "adult content" is just baffling and dull to little kids.
The other issue that may be playing in to this is adults wanting private time. That's something it helps to separate out into specifics - culturally we expect "an hour or so of time to connect, cuddle, have adult conversation and maybe some sex, too" all rolled in together, right at a time of day that isn't necessarily convenient to kids. So it will help to pull all those needs apart and look for ways to meet them separately. Then if you miss your show, you haven't missed getting seven needs met at once, only one.
Rethinking the way you do meals could give you adult conversation and connection time, by the way ;) You get to have a nice-grown up dinner together while the kids nibble and do other things.
---Meredith
>> First, is it part of the idea of food freedom that the kids have theresponsibility for preparing some of their food?
*****************
Rather than thinking in terms of "resonsibility" make it easier for them to get their own food. If they tend to like hot food, create portion sized plates that they can toss in the microwave easily. If they like snacky things, finger foods, make up plates and set them out wherever the kids are playing:
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter
Eventually, as they get used to the idea that they can eat when they're hungry and the idea of food preparation becomes less intimidating, they'll move in to making things. But it needn't be a "responsibility". Its something they're learning about little by little, swirling through their days. Invite them to help you cook! But let it be an invitation, not a requirement.
>The side note is that I feel like I'm in the kitchen a lot making snacks and meals.It's only been a week ;) Transitioning from one thing to another naturally tends to be more work than either of those things. You'll find you need to rethink and reorganize a bit, I expect. Plan making a day's worth of snacks into other kinds of food prep. Maybe rethink the way you do meals entirely.
>>Is it enough to say that he doesn't have to go to sleep, but he has to stay out of the living room because we are watching such and so and it might be too scary or have bad language or whatever?***************
There are two differernt ideas rolled together there - maybe more. Your little guy wants to be with his parents. You don't want him to be in the sort of situation where he sees things that make him unhappy. You also want to watch your show. Do all those things Have to happen at the same time? Can you record that show and watch it the next day while your guy is busy doing something else? Can you watch it on a laptop while he watches something else on the telly? Can you watch with headphones on so he can snuggle without the sound effects and scary music?
What is "appropriate" for a 5yo depends entirely on the individual child. When Mo was 6, she was watching CSI with me, and leaving the room for the sex scenes and conversational scenes - boring adult stuff, call me when there's a new body, mom. At the same age (maybe older) she couldn't watch the children's movie Bridge to Terebithia because there were too many scenes of adults shouting at children. So it could be you're making a lot of assumptions about what you think is appropriate for little kids in general without really having a sense of what your guy would find scary or offensive or a reason to ask a thousand terribly awkward questions right when the action heats up - and what he'd just find baffling or dull. A lot of "adult content" is just baffling and dull to little kids.
The other issue that may be playing in to this is adults wanting private time. That's something it helps to separate out into specifics - culturally we expect "an hour or so of time to connect, cuddle, have adult conversation and maybe some sex, too" all rolled in together, right at a time of day that isn't necessarily convenient to kids. So it will help to pull all those needs apart and look for ways to meet them separately. Then if you miss your show, you haven't missed getting seven needs met at once, only one.
Rethinking the way you do meals could give you adult conversation and connection time, by the way ;) You get to have a nice-grown up dinner together while the kids nibble and do other things.
---Meredith
Doug & Melissa Edwards
By responsibility I was thinking of giving them the power if they wanted it. (I've studied "redirecting children's behavior" a good bit and a lot of that has to do with giving kids more power and I didn't want to miss an opportunity) Not that it would just be up to them to get food.
As to the nighttime stuff.... I guess the take home message is to try different things to see what works. oh and the fact that it is the first week : ) My husband and I are just used to some time in which our desires take precedence over the kids desires. We have to find a path in which we are all satisfied.
Thanks for the suggestions,
Melissa
As to the nighttime stuff.... I guess the take home message is to try different things to see what works. oh and the fact that it is the first week : ) My husband and I are just used to some time in which our desires take precedence over the kids desires. We have to find a path in which we are all satisfied.
Thanks for the suggestions,
Melissa
On Mar 26, 2011, at 9:40 AM, plaidpanties666 wrote:
> melgqd" <boisei@...> wrote:
> >> First, is it part of the idea of food freedom that the kids have the
> responsibility for preparing some of their food?
> *****************
>
> Rather than thinking in terms of "resonsibility" make it easier for them to get their own food. If they tend to like hot food, create portion sized plates that they can toss in the microwave easily. If they like snacky things, finger foods, make up plates and set them out wherever the kids are playing:
> http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter
>
> Eventually, as they get used to the idea that they can eat when they're hungry and the idea of food preparation becomes less intimidating, they'll move in to making things. But it needn't be a "responsibility". Its something they're learning about little by little, swirling through their days. Invite them to help you cook! But let it be an invitation, not a requirement.
>
> >The side note is that I feel like I'm in the kitchen a lot making snacks and meals.
>
> It's only been a week ;) Transitioning from one thing to another naturally tends to be more work than either of those things. You'll find you need to rethink and reorganize a bit, I expect. Plan making a day's worth of snacks into other kinds of food prep. Maybe rethink the way you do meals entirely.
>
>
> >>Is it enough to say that he doesn't have to go to sleep, but he has to stay out of the living room because we are watching such and so and it might be too scary or have bad language or whatever?
> ***************
>
> There are two differernt ideas rolled together there - maybe more. Your little guy wants to be with his parents. You don't want him to be in the sort of situation where he sees things that make him unhappy. You also want to watch your show. Do all those things Have to happen at the same time? Can you record that show and watch it the next day while your guy is busy doing something else? Can you watch it on a laptop while he watches something else on the telly? Can you watch with headphones on so he can snuggle without the sound effects and scary music?
>
> What is "appropriate" for a 5yo depends entirely on the individual child. When Mo was 6, she was watching CSI with me, and leaving the room for the sex scenes and conversational scenes - boring adult stuff, call me when there's a new body, mom. At the same age (maybe older) she couldn't watch the children's movie Bridge to Terebithia because there were too many scenes of adults shouting at children. So it could be you're making a lot of assumptions about what you think is appropriate for little kids in general without really having a sense of what your guy would find scary or offensive or a reason to ask a thousand terribly awkward questions right when the action heats up - and what he'd just find baffling or dull. A lot of "adult content" is just baffling and dull to little kids.
>
> The other issue that may be playing in to this is adults wanting private time. That's something it helps to separate out into specifics - culturally we expect "an hour or so of time to connect, cuddle, have adult conversation and maybe some sex, too" all rolled in together, right at a time of day that isn't necessarily convenient to kids. So it will help to pull all those needs apart and look for ways to meet them separately. Then if you miss your show, you haven't missed getting seven needs met at once, only one.
>
> Rethinking the way you do meals could give you adult conversation and connection time, by the way ;) You get to have a nice-grown up dinner together while the kids nibble and do other things.
>
> ---Meredith
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
debbiernoll
===As to the nighttime stuff.... I guess the take home message is to try different
things to see what works. oh and the fact that it is the first week : ) My
husband and I are just used to some time in which our desires take precedence
over the kids desires. We have to find a path in which we are all satisfied.===
We, originally, transitioning very poorly. I basically told the kids they could stay up as long as they wanted and mistakenly envisioned kids marching off to bed all on their own within a few weeks. That didn't happen. My 6 yo was staying up until 1:00 most nights. It was fine for her, she slept in the morning and was still getting enough sleep, but it was not ok with my husband who felt like it was disrupting "our" time at night.
What has eventually worked for us is this. I give my younger two plenty of time to wrap up whatever they are doing at the time and tell them we'll start getting ready for bed within the next half hour or so. Then, after brushing teeth, pjs, etc. we all get into my bed and usually read. My son almost always falls asleep while I read. My daughter takes longer to get settled so I'll read or go online while she falls asleep. Once they're asleep my husband and I can spend some time together, talking or watching tv which was really important to him. We can easily adjust this if they want to stay up to watch a specific show or movie or something else they want to do. My husband doesn't feel like his "rights" are being infringed on and my kids fall asleep snuggled against me. For us, for now, this works for everyone.
-
things to see what works. oh and the fact that it is the first week : ) My
husband and I are just used to some time in which our desires take precedence
over the kids desires. We have to find a path in which we are all satisfied.===
We, originally, transitioning very poorly. I basically told the kids they could stay up as long as they wanted and mistakenly envisioned kids marching off to bed all on their own within a few weeks. That didn't happen. My 6 yo was staying up until 1:00 most nights. It was fine for her, she slept in the morning and was still getting enough sleep, but it was not ok with my husband who felt like it was disrupting "our" time at night.
What has eventually worked for us is this. I give my younger two plenty of time to wrap up whatever they are doing at the time and tell them we'll start getting ready for bed within the next half hour or so. Then, after brushing teeth, pjs, etc. we all get into my bed and usually read. My son almost always falls asleep while I read. My daughter takes longer to get settled so I'll read or go online while she falls asleep. Once they're asleep my husband and I can spend some time together, talking or watching tv which was really important to him. We can easily adjust this if they want to stay up to watch a specific show or movie or something else they want to do. My husband doesn't feel like his "rights" are being infringed on and my kids fall asleep snuggled against me. For us, for now, this works for everyone.
-