Tina Tarbutton

I know I handled this whole situation wrong, and at the time I knew I
was handling it wrong, but I couldn't figure out another way to handle
it and felt like it had to be done. So now I'm opening up to you guys
hoping someone can give me some better insights on how to handle it,
if it occurs again.

I also plan to talk to my son tomorrow when we're a bit further from
the situation to find out a better way to handle it.

My 10 y/o son Draven told me last night that he was having a hard time
emptying his bladder, and that he felt a lot of pressure when he was
urinating. I figured it was the beginning of a UTI and called the
doctors office this morning. They said they don't have a way to do
urinalysis there, and for us to just hit the ER because it would be
quicker then them waiting for results.

So we get to the ER, everything is okay, he pees in a cup, they send
it off, we get into the room and the doctor wants to have a quick look
"down there". Draven says no at first, but after I talked to him and
explained it would be quick and fast and would just happen once
(whoops, big mistake), he agreed, I turned my head, he covered his
eyes, the doctor looked and said we'd wait for the results from the
urinalysis.

He comes back 30 minutes later with another doctor. Said the quick
test of the urine was negative, but that he thought the opening to his
urethra was too small for his age and wanted another opinion (from
this other doctor). Draven went ballistic, no, mommy said once, you
guys had your chance, you didn't figure it out, you're not looking
again, no no no no no. I pulled the doctor aside and asked how big of
an issue it was if it was too small and he asked me a few questions,
all of which had an affirmative answer (he's always used the restroom
a whole lot ever since he was first potty trained, we're constantly
rushing to bathrooms, and he had accidents for long after he knew how
to use the toilet). The doctor then told me this problem will get
worse if the urethra opening is too small, and may in fact cause him
more serious problems once he his puberty. So I got scared, wanted
this taken care of and decided to put my foot down. This consisted of
a nurse and I holding Draven down while they looked. The whole time
him and I are both in tears, I know I've screwed up, but I'm worried
about his health at this point.

That doctor says yes, something is wrong, we'll have the surgical team
take a look if the long urinalysis comes back negative.

Draven curls into a ball and says (and I quote here) "screw you all,
not another person is touching me, it's time to go home".

I calm him down again and we take a walk outside so we can call his
father (who lives 14 hours away) and maybe he can explain why this is
so important. We also call my partner, his stepmom, so she can be
there for moral support for both of us.

By the time we get back inside the urinalysis is back and negative.
Draven won't let me touch him and won't talk to me, he all but cussed
his dad out on the phone. I was expecting him to take off at any
second and I couldn't figure out how to make him feel more in control
while still protecting his health. I even asked the doctor if it was
possible to either sedate him or give him something for anxiety to try
and make this easier. They refused.

Surgical team comes in, it starts to look like it's going to be
another hold him down situation, but at the last minute he says fine,
whatever, just get it done. They look (all 3 of them, how freaking
stupid) and all agree that he needs surgery to open it up more. It's
not an emergency so I can call tomorrow to schedule the pre-op
consult.

Draven went back to being curled in a ball, wouldn't talk to me for
the rest of the time there, or the ride home and pulled away whenever
I tried to touch him.

He asked to be dropped off at home while my partner and I went to the
grocery store, we offered to have either of us stay with him, he said
no he needed alone time.

By the time we got back from the quick shopping trip he was basically
back to his normal self. He helped with the groceries, loved the
little surprises (favorite foods) we got for him, joked and laughed
around with us like nothing was wrong. He asked when he'll meet with
the surgeons, I explained we needed to schedule it and asked if it was
okay that I did that tomorrow, he said it's fine just to let him know
what's happening.

He's made a few jokes about it, some which hurt my feelings (better
not upset mom, she'll hold me down and let them get me), but I know
it's his way of dealing with it. In the end, it mostly came out fine,
however I know I destroyed quite a bit of the trust he has in me. I
can't figure out how I could have handled today better that would have
gotten this situation checked out, but still let him feel in control.
I'm at a loss.

Thanks for any insight.

Tina

NCMama

What a tough situation!

One thing I kept thinking was that it wasn't an emergency. You had time to go home, and discuss with him the best way to handle it. It didn't have to be done right then, or even looked at right then.

Maybe a guideline is: is this *really* life or death in this moment? If not (and pay attention to your son, and the real situation, not scary "what if" statements from the doctors), there's time to find the win-win.

Caren

Faith Void

I would start by apologizing for violating my child's body autonomy. I would
explain that I was parenting from fear in that moment.

In April Easy (7) , his sister (2) and I were running down a grassy hill
over an over. At one point Easy stepped wrong and slipped in his knee.
He said it made a horrible noise and was very painful. He was inconsolable
and unable to walk. I suspected it might be broken. I carried him home. At
home we discussed his leg and what might be going on. I suggested the
doctors. Easy was opposed. He really just wanted to "wait and see". So he
soaked in a tub hoping to relax the knee and make it less painful. He was
carried around so that it wasn't used. We gave him a little ibuprofen.

He cried all through the night. We stayed with him. In the morning he
decided that it was so painful (and there was no bruising) that something
might need to be done by a doctor. So we went to the ER to get pictures
(xrays). It was indeed broken. I was worried that the doctors would give me
a hard time for not bringing him in immediately but they were very
understanding and all felt that "wait and see" was an excellent policy in
most cases. I made sure that Easy was part of all decision making. He needed
everything spelled out to the letter. He needed to choose who touched him
and who wasn't allowed.

I have done this with all my kids. It is very challenging to parent through
this especially when your child is making a decision you wouldn't make or
the doctors/nurses are pushing you to "control" your child. I have left
offices and fired doctors for this. You r health care providers are giving
you a service. If you don't like them or the service they are giving you are
free to leave.

I would give your child time to heal. Then see a urologist. Find one that
will be sensitive about handling your child and taking cues from him. It is
reasonable for only one person to handle his genitals and he should decide
when and which doctor.

You can also read up on what this condition is and how it is handled. Find
options. As many as possible.

Faith

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Tina Tarbutton <tina.tarbutton@...>wrote:
>
>
> So we get to the ER, everything is okay, he pees in a cup, they send
> it off, we get into the room and the doctor wants to have a quick look
> "down there". Draven says no at first, but after I talked to him and
> explained it would be quick and fast and would just happen once
> (whoops, big mistake), he agreed, I turned my head, he covered his
> eyes, the doctor looked and said we'd wait for the results from the
> urinalysis.
>
> He comes back 30 minutes later with another doctor. Said the quick
> test of the urine was negative, but that he thought the opening to his
> urethra was too small for his age and wanted another opinion (from
> this other doctor). Draven went ballistic, no, mommy said once, you
> guys had your chance, you didn't figure it out, you're not looking
> again, no no no no no. I pulled the doctor aside and asked how big of
> an issue it was if it was too small and he asked me a few questions,
> all of which had an affirmative answer (he's always used the restroom
> a whole lot ever since he was first potty trained, we're constantly
> rushing to bathrooms, and he had accidents for long after he knew how
> to use the toilet). The doctor then told me this problem will get
> worse if the urethra opening is too small, and may in fact cause him
> more serious problems once he his puberty. So I got scared, wanted
> this taken care of and decided to put my foot down. This consisted of
> a nurse and I holding Draven down while they looked. The whole time
> him and I are both in tears, I know I've screwed up, but I'm worried
> about his health at this point.
>
> --
www.bearthmama.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

 I couldn't agree more with what Faith said.
Research about it and listen to your child.


Alex Polikowsky



________________________________
From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 12:11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Hospital situation

 
I would start by apologizing for violating my child's body autonomy. I would
explain that I was parenting from fear in that moment.

In April Easy (7) , his sister (2) and I were running down a grassy hill
over an over. At one point Easy stepped wrong and slipped in his knee.
He said it made a horrible noise and was very painful. He was inconsolable
and unable to walk. I suspected it might be broken. I carried him home. At
home we discussed his leg and what might be going on. I suggested the
doctors. Easy was opposed. He really just wanted to "wait and see". So he
soaked in a tub hoping to relax the knee and make it less painful. He was
carried around so that it wasn't used. We gave him a little ibuprofen.

He cried all through the night. We stayed with him. In the morning he
decided that it was so painful (and there was no bruising) that something
might need to be done by a doctor. So we went to the ER to get pictures
(xrays). It was indeed broken. I was worried that the doctors would give me
a hard time for not bringing him in immediately but they were very
understanding and all felt that "wait and see" was an excellent policy in
most cases. I made sure that Easy was part of all decision making. He needed
everything spelled out to the letter. He needed to choose who touched him
and who wasn't allowed.

I have done this with all my kids. It is very challenging to parent through
this especially when your child is making a decision you wouldn't make or
the doctors/nurses are pushing you to "control" your child. I have left
offices and fired doctors for this. You r health care providers are giving
you a service. If you don't like them or the service they are giving you are
free to leave.

I would give your child time to heal. Then see a urologist. Find one that
will be sensitive about handling your child and taking cues from him. It is
reasonable for only one person to handle his genitals and he should decide
when and which doctor.

You can also read up on what this condition is and how it is handled. Find
options. As many as possible.

Faith

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Tina Tarbutton <tina.tarbutton@...>wrote:
>
>
> So we get to the ER, everything is okay, he pees in a cup, they send
> it off, we get into the room and the doctor wants to have a quick look
> "down there". Draven says no at first, but after I talked to him and
> explained it would be quick and fast and would just happen once
> (whoops, big mistake), he agreed, I turned my head, he covered his
> eyes, the doctor looked and said we'd wait for the results from the
> urinalysis.
>
> He comes back 30 minutes later with another doctor. Said the quick
> test of the urine was negative, but that he thought the opening to his
> urethra was too small for his age and wanted another opinion (from
> this other doctor). Draven went ballistic, no, mommy said once, you
> guys had your chance, you didn't figure it out, you're not looking
> again, no no no no no. I pulled the doctor aside and asked how big of
> an issue it was if it was too small and he asked me a few questions,
> all of which had an affirmative answer (he's always used the restroom
> a whole lot ever since he was first potty trained, we're constantly
> rushing to bathrooms, and he had accidents for long after he knew how
> to use the toilet). The doctor then told me this problem will get
> worse if the urethra opening is too small, and may in fact cause him
> more serious problems once he his puberty. So I got scared, wanted
> this taken care of and decided to put my foot down. This consisted of
> a nurse and I holding Draven down while they looked. The whole time
> him and I are both in tears, I know I've screwed up, but I'm worried
> about his health at this point.
>
> --
www.bearthmama.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cameron Parham

I love Brianls advice. While this question shouldd eventually be addressed, there is no danger in waiting until your son has had time to heal emotionally and participate in the next plan. There are pediatric urologists (not many, but some). Depending where you live, there may be more than one, so your son can interview them and choose. You can try googling the issue to assess risks involved. You may find a gentle,experienced pediatrician who doesn't find patient autonomy threatening. As long as there is no infection occurring there is no emergency. Even then you can discuss the pros and cons of antibiotcs, with your son. Maybe the concern about a small urethral opening isn't even accurate. That is fairly rare. Help your son have the facts, help yourself have the facts, then rest with them. The whole thing was sad. I also agree with telling your son that you are sorry. My kids sure hear a lot of that. I hope that you don't mind my input
from the position of an unschooling ER doc. I always tell patients that my job is to share with them what I know and help them make the choice that feels best to them, but that comes after years of unschooling! Cameron P

On Tue Nov 16th, 2010 11:24 AM MST BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:

>
> I couldn't agree more with what Faith said.
>Research about it and listen to your child.
>
>
>Alex Polikowsky
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 12:11:18 PM
>Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Hospital situation
>

>I would start by apologizing for violating my child's body autonomy. I would
>explain that I was parenting from fear in that moment.
>
>In April Easy (7) , his sister (2) and I were running down a grassy hill
>over an over. At one point Easy stepped wrong and slipped in his knee.
>He said it made a horrible noise and was very painful. He was inconsolable
>and unable to walk. I suspected it might be broken. I carried him home. At
>home we discussed his leg and what might be going on. I suggested the
>doctors. Easy was opposed. He really just wanted to "wait and see". So he
>soaked in a tub hoping to relax the knee and make it less painful. He was
>carried around so that it wasn't used. We gave him a little ibuprofen.
>
>He cried all through the night. We stayed with him. In the morning he
>decided that it was so painful (and there was no bruising) that something
>might need to be done by a doctor. So we went to the ER to get pictures
>(xrays). It was indeed broken. I was worried that the doctors would give me
>a hard time for not bringing him in immediately but they were very
>understanding and all felt that "wait and see" was an excellent policy in
>most cases. I made sure that Easy was part of all decision making. He needed
>everything spelled out to the letter. He needed to choose who touched him
>and who wasn't allowed.
>
>I have done this with all my kids. It is very challenging to parent through
>this especially when your child is making a decision you wouldn't make or
>the doctors/nurses are pushing you to "control" your child. I have left
>offices and fired doctors for this. You r health care providers are giving
>you a service. If you don't like them or the service they are giving you are
>free to leave.
>
>I would give your child time to heal. Then see a urologist. Find one that
>will be sensitive about handling your child and taking cues from him. It is
>reasonable for only one person to handle his genitals and he should decide
>when and which doctor.
>
>You can also read up on what this condition is and how it is handled. Find
>options. As many as possible.
>
>Faith
>
>On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Tina Tarbutton <tina.tarbutton@...>wrote:
>>
>>
>> So we get to the ER, everything is okay, he pees in a cup, they send
>> it off, we get into the room and the doctor wants to have a quick look
>> "down there". Draven says no at first, but after I talked to him and
>> explained it would be quick and fast and would just happen once
>> (whoops, big mistake), he agreed, I turned my head, he covered his
>> eyes, the doctor looked and said we'd wait for the results from the
>> urinalysis.
>>
>> He comes back 30 minutes later with another doctor. Said the quick
>> test of the urine was negative, but that he thought the opening to his
>> urethra was too small for his age and wanted another opinion (from
>> this other doctor). Draven went ballistic, no, mommy said once, you
>> guys had your chance, you didn't figure it out, you're not looking
>> again, no no no no no. I pulled the doctor aside and asked how big of
>> an issue it was if it was too small and he asked me a few questions,
>> all of which had an affirmative answer (he's always used the restroom
>> a whole lot ever since he was first potty trained, we're constantly
>> rushing to bathrooms, and he had accidents for long after he knew how
>> to use the toilet). The doctor then told me this problem will get
>> worse if the urethra opening is too small, and may in fact cause him
>> more serious problems once he his puberty. So I got scared, wanted
>> this taken care of and decided to put my foot down. This consisted of
>> a nurse and I holding Draven down while they looked. The whole time
>> him and I are both in tears, I know I've screwed up, but I'm worried
>> about his health at this point.
>>
>> --
>www.bearthmama.com
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Christine Yablonski

Beautiful post on honoring your child's needs during medical situations,
Faith. It is so hard when you're already worried to ignore the pressure
from those who, for all their good intentions, don't know your child better
than you.

~ Christine

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 1:11 PM, Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:

>
>
> I would start by apologizing for violating my child's body autonomy. I
> would
> explain that I was parenting from fear in that moment.
>
> In April Easy (7) , his sister (2) and I were running down a grassy hill
> over an over. At one point Easy stepped wrong and slipped in his knee.
> He said it made a horrible noise and was very painful. He was inconsolable
> and unable to walk. I suspected it might be broken. I carried him home. At
> home we discussed his leg and what might be going on. I suggested the
> doctors. Easy was opposed. He really just wanted to "wait and see". So he
> soaked in a tub hoping to relax the knee and make it less painful. He was
> carried around so that it wasn't used. We gave him a little ibuprofen.
>
> He cried all through the night. We stayed with him. In the morning he
> decided that it was so painful (and there was no bruising) that something
> might need to be done by a doctor. So we went to the ER to get pictures
> (xrays). It was indeed broken. I was worried that the doctors would give me
> a hard time for not bringing him in immediately but they were very
> understanding and all felt that "wait and see" was an excellent policy in
> most cases. I made sure that Easy was part of all decision making. He
> needed
> everything spelled out to the letter. He needed to choose who touched him
> and who wasn't allowed.
>
> I have done this with all my kids. It is very challenging to parent through
> this especially when your child is making a decision you wouldn't make or
> the doctors/nurses are pushing you to "control" your child. I have left
> offices and fired doctors for this. You r health care providers are giving
> you a service. If you don't like them or the service they are giving you
> are
> free to leave.
>
> I would give your child time to heal. Then see a urologist. Find one that
> will be sensitive about handling your child and taking cues from him. It is
> reasonable for only one person to handle his genitals and he should decide
> when and which doctor.
>
> You can also read up on what this condition is and how it is handled. Find
> options. As many as possible.
>
> Faith
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Tina Tarbutton <tina.tarbutton@...<tina.tarbutton%40gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> > So we get to the ER, everything is okay, he pees in a cup, they send
> > it off, we get into the room and the doctor wants to have a quick look
> > "down there". Draven says no at first, but after I talked to him and
> > explained it would be quick and fast and would just happen once
> > (whoops, big mistake), he agreed, I turned my head, he covered his
> > eyes, the doctor looked and said we'd wait for the results from the
> > urinalysis.
> >
> > He comes back 30 minutes later with another doctor. Said the quick
> > test of the urine was negative, but that he thought the opening to his
> > urethra was too small for his age and wanted another opinion (from
> > this other doctor). Draven went ballistic, no, mommy said once, you
> > guys had your chance, you didn't figure it out, you're not looking
> > again, no no no no no. I pulled the doctor aside and asked how big of
> > an issue it was if it was too small and he asked me a few questions,
> > all of which had an affirmative answer (he's always used the restroom
> > a whole lot ever since he was first potty trained, we're constantly
> > rushing to bathrooms, and he had accidents for long after he knew how
> > to use the toilet). The doctor then told me this problem will get
> > worse if the urethra opening is too small, and may in fact cause him
> > more serious problems once he his puberty. So I got scared, wanted
> > this taken care of and decided to put my foot down. This consisted of
> > a nurse and I holding Draven down while they looked. The whole time
> > him and I are both in tears, I know I've screwed up, but I'm worried
> > about his health at this point.
> >
> > --
> www.bearthmama.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
~ Christine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rinelle

I'm having some struggles right now with my daughter (6), and her intense
desire for imaginative play. It's not really a new desire, she's always
played very intense and involved imaginative play games, and DH and I have
both tried our best to meet this need for her. The trouble is, both of us
are finding it harder and harder to meet her needs on the level she seems to
want. She would happily be involved in one imaginative game or another all
day, and both DH and I are feeling very overwhemed by playing at all right
now. Her games have to be played exactly the way she want's no deviations,
and quite frequently she won't tell you what she wants us to play until we
do something different, when we find out because she's screaming at us. (As
an example, while I was in the middle of typing this, she came up and handed
me a toy and launched into a big description of what I had to do and what
she was going to do, not even asking me if I would play, just assuming that
I would.) If we say we'll play just as soon as we've finished what we're
doing (usually something like being in the middle of eating a meal, etc),
then she gets upset, and keeps asking over and over again, or saying we
'have to' play right now.

We've been trying recently to find some other children she can play with,
but many of them either don't seem to be into the same style of imaginative
play, or in the case of the one family we've found who is, the parents
aren't interested in finding the time for us to get the kids together for
some extended play time.

I'm at a loss as to how to find a way we can meet this need for imaginative
play, without DH and I feeling like we just want to escape so we can have a
private thought, or even more difficult, discuss something with each other
without being screamed at.

Tamara

Schuyler

You can't change someone else. You can't help her to see how waiting will get
her what she needs in a better way. She needs you right now! She needs you to
take the toy and run through the game she's planned for you. And how fantastic
it is that she has such trust that you will do it, she believes that you are
capable of fulfilling the role she has created for you. No matter how much you
try and put off her neediness, you daughter will still be needy until you can
figure out ways to be with her more.

Simon and Linnaea are 13 and 10 now, but when they were littler I did very
little that took focus or time. Being able to stop doing something and turn
toward them was much, much more important when they were younger. It still is
important, but they need my time much less. I have projects now. I haven't had
projects for a long time. I even stopped reading much when they were younger.
Actually I still don't read as much as I used to largely because I'm less
interested in reading books these days. Most things could be paused, most things
put off. Food can grow cold without me suffering too much, or, the more I'd
given the more willing Simon and Linnaea were to adapt the situation to my
needs, food can be brought along and eaten as I go. Dishwater can be changed,
and the dishes are easier to clean for the soaking. Vacuuming doesn't do itself
(unless you have a roomba, I suppose), it'll be there when your daughter isn't.
The only thing that can't wait, the only thing that needs your presence truly is
your daughter. Even your husband can probably hold on for a few minutes, or join
in. Maybe you two could hold hands as you follow your daughter's guidance, or
look at each other in the moments while she's designing the next moment of play,
or make some other affectionate gesture.

The more you turn towards your daughter in her moments of need the less she'll
be needy. I know it can seem like it's all you are doing for a long while, but
she may have huge needs for love and attention. The fuller up her cup gets the
less it will take to fill in future moments and the more patient she'll be
likely to be about your own needs being met. Linnaea will have times when she
needs me. She'll want foot massages and stories and back rubs and engagement and
cuddles and conversations and walks and so on and so forth. If I can help her,
if I can give to her, she's less likely to have a hard time with Simon or to get
frustrated with someone else. Simon will have times when he wants affection, he
wants to sit on my lap, he wants to cuddle up and watch a movie, he wants to
squoosh up to me in the kitchen. The more I can give to him, the more I can help
him out, the better the rest of his day is. I have times when I want attention
and love and words and the more I've been affectionate and loving and playful
and giving, the more likely I'm going to receive the care and attention I'm
hoping for from the rest of my family.

I think it's fantastic that she'll come to you story in hand and assume that you
are capable of fulfilling the role she's cast for you. That's a big thing. She
loves you and wants you to be with her. She loves you and wants you to play with
her. It helps me a lot to have a few little phrases that I can pull into my head
in moments where I'm torn between what I'm doing and Simon or Linnaea. Things
like they'll only be this age right now; life without them is so much less fun;
which is truly more important; wouldn't it have been nice for my mom to play
with me like this. That doesn't mean that I always go when they ask, but it
means that I'm truly working to go with them more than not. They still ask me to
engage with them because they like me and they want to be with me. That's a
really cool piece of knowledge. And sometimes that knowledge gives me enough
patience to move along with their needs and not my own desires.

I found when I would sit and play with Simon and/or Linnaea for the whole day
with only moments away to get food or drink that I often had lots of moments
during their play to think my own thoughts, to have my own ideas. If I wasn't
fighting the moment, if I wasn't sitting there making lists about what I needed
to be doing instead of this unfocused activity of being with my children, I got
a lot of peace playing with them. Playing with dolls was tactile, I could brush
their hair or dress them or feel the weird skins that manufacturers gave them.
If it was B'damen battles, the setting up of the blocks was engaging and
relaxing, the finding the balls was a challenge, the figuring out how best to
build a fort that would take time to knock down was fun. There were some games I
struggled at, like imaginary Pokemon battles, but David was brilliant at riding
out Simon's rule changes. I was so pleased to have a partner who had strengths
to match my weaknesses. And my weaknesses grew less the more I exercised them.

If she's disturbing you at dinner, it may help to think back to how many other
times during the day you put her off. There may be a pattern, if you've been
more responsive to her over the day is she more likely to let you sit down to
eat? Does her neediness ramp up when Dad is home? Does she miss him and want him
to play? is she jealous of the attention you pay to him? Simon would always step
between David and I if he caught us kissing. It became a game, but he definitely
wanted our attention to be for him and not for each other. Make special effort
to include her in your time with her dad and it may make it easier for you two
to have a few moments together, here and there. David and I tend to make dinner
together in part because it is easier for us to have moments together then. We
get to kiss and cuddle and flirt and cook. It may explain why I enjoy cooking so
much.

Say yes more. Reach out to her play more. There isn't a way to stop her desire
to do imaginative play without it being a hurtful or mean thing. The more you
give the more you will receive. Really. She's only 6. Soon she won't be 6
anymore. Soon she'll be 7 and then 8 and then 9 and then 10. It goes both slowly
and way, way too quickly. Enjoy the slower ride as much as you can.

Schuyler



________________________________


I'm having some struggles right now with my daughter (6), and her intense
desire for imaginative play. It's not really a new desire, she's always
played very intense and involved imaginative play games, and DH and I have
both tried our best to meet this need for her. The trouble is, both of us
are finding it harder and harder to meet her needs on the level she seems to
want. She would happily be involved in one imaginative game or another all
day, and both DH and I are feeling very overwhemed by playing at all right
now. Her games have to be played exactly the way she want's no deviations,
and quite frequently she won't tell you what she wants us to play until we
do something different, when we find out because she's screaming at us. (As
an example, while I was in the middle of typing this, she came up and handed
me a toy and launched into a big description of what I had to do and what
she was going to do, not even asking me if I would play, just assuming that
I would.) If we say we'll play just as soon as we've finished what we're
doing (usually something like being in the middle of eating a meal, etc),
then she gets upset, and keeps asking over and over again, or saying we
'have to' play right now.

We've been trying recently to find some other children she can play with,
but many of them either don't seem to be into the same style of imaginative
play, or in the case of the one family we've found who is, the parents
aren't interested in finding the time for us to get the kids together for
some extended play time.

I'm at a loss as to how to find a way we can meet this need for imaginative
play, without DH and I feeling like we just want to escape so we can have a
private thought, or even more difficult, discuss something with each other
without being screamed at.

Tamara

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

plaidpanties666

"Rinelle" <rinelle@...> wrote:
>If we say we'll play just as soon as we've finished what we're
> doing (usually something like being in the middle of eating a meal, etc),
> then she gets upset, and keeps asking over and over again, or saying we
> 'have to' play right now.

As hard as that is for you, realize that its just as hard, if not harder for her. She's not trying to bully you or drive you crazy, she really needs the support and attention! That's not to say you should jump up the moment she calls, but do treat her needs and desires and feelings seriously - they are serious to her. Be gentle with her.

Kids with bit emotions get their feelings hurt more often. That's one of the realities of their lives - they feel things in Big ways where other kids can shrug and move on. Treating your dd's needs seriously means honoring her disappointments without beating yourself up when you can't be the perfect mommy she'd like you to be. Look for ways to say yes more and sooner, for sure! but also be honest about your own needs and boundaries.

As much as we'd all love for our kids to enjoy and cherish their childhoods, some kids have a very hard time being children. Its hard to be small and dependent, and its harder on some kids, emotionally, than others, and the best you can do is be the gentle, caring friend who tries to help when you can, and commiserate when the world is just too much.

---Meredith

Scott & Marygrace Sorensen

Her games have to be played exactly the way she want's no deviations,
and quite frequently she won't tell you what she wants us to play until we
do something different, when we find out because she's screaming at us. ..


then she gets upset, and keeps asking over and over again, or saying we
'have to' play right now.



It seems she's suffering from impatience as the other child in another
thread. I've suffered from impatience all of my life, as well.



These are the things that have helped me:

DEEP breathing



Yoga (just get a DVD and play it and see if he joins, but don't make it a
big deal)



The Bach Remedy - Impatience. (I didn't find this until my early 20s and
while I wish I'd had it earlier, it's been a life saver for me.)

http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm#Impatiens

This also would probably be helpful to the little girl and her imaginative
play, as well.



Also the Bach Remedy - Recue Remedy is terrific too, when feeling stressed.

http://www.bachflower.com/Rescue_Remedy.htm



Good luck,



Mg





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cara A

Poor Tina!

I totally understand freaking out and doing the wrong thing.
I am learning the hard way about how I want to parent too.

Faith nailed it by saying you need to apologize.

We're still waiting out the "foreskin not retracting" thing with my 8 year old, and I haven't even discussed it with him yet...<sigh>.

This post will prompt me to discuss it today.

Thanks for the reminder and good luck with that discussion!!!

Cara




--- In [email protected], Tina Tarbutton <tina.tarbutton@...> wrote:
>
> I know I handled this whole situation wrong, and at the time I knew I
> was handling it wrong, but I couldn't figure out another way to handle
> it and felt like it had to be done. So now I'm opening up to you guys
> hoping someone can give me some better insights on how to handle it,
> if it occurs again.
>
> I also plan to talk to my son tomorrow when we're a bit further from
> the situation to find out a better way to handle it.
>
> My 10 y/o son Draven told me last night that he was having a hard time
> emptying his bladder, and that he felt a lot of pressure when he was
> urinating. I figured it was the beginning of a UTI and called the
> doctors office this morning. They said they don't have a way to do
> urinalysis there, and for us to just hit the ER because it would be
> quicker then them waiting for results.
>
> So we get to the ER, everything is okay, he pees in a cup, they send
> it off, we get into the room and the doctor wants to have a quick look
> "down there". Draven says no at first, but after I talked to him and
> explained it would be quick and fast and would just happen once
> (whoops, big mistake), he agreed, I turned my head, he covered his
> eyes, the doctor looked and said we'd wait for the results from the
> urinalysis.
>
> He comes back 30 minutes later with another doctor. Said the quick
> test of the urine was negative, but that he thought the opening to his
> urethra was too small for his age and wanted another opinion (from
> this other doctor). Draven went ballistic, no, mommy said once, you
> guys had your chance, you didn't figure it out, you're not looking
> again, no no no no no. I pulled the doctor aside and asked how big of
> an issue it was if it was too small and he asked me a few questions,
> all of which had an affirmative answer (he's always used the restroom
> a whole lot ever since he was first potty trained, we're constantly
> rushing to bathrooms, and he had accidents for long after he knew how
> to use the toilet). The doctor then told me this problem will get
> worse if the urethra opening is too small, and may in fact cause him
> more serious problems once he his puberty. So I got scared, wanted
> this taken care of and decided to put my foot down. This consisted of
> a nurse and I holding Draven down while they looked. The whole time
> him and I are both in tears, I know I've screwed up, but I'm worried
> about his health at this point.
>
> That doctor says yes, something is wrong, we'll have the surgical team
> take a look if the long urinalysis comes back negative.
>
> Draven curls into a ball and says (and I quote here) "screw you all,
> not another person is touching me, it's time to go home".
>
> I calm him down again and we take a walk outside so we can call his
> father (who lives 14 hours away) and maybe he can explain why this is
> so important. We also call my partner, his stepmom, so she can be
> there for moral support for both of us.
>
> By the time we get back inside the urinalysis is back and negative.
> Draven won't let me touch him and won't talk to me, he all but cussed
> his dad out on the phone. I was expecting him to take off at any
> second and I couldn't figure out how to make him feel more in control
> while still protecting his health. I even asked the doctor if it was
> possible to either sedate him or give him something for anxiety to try
> and make this easier. They refused.
>
> Surgical team comes in, it starts to look like it's going to be
> another hold him down situation, but at the last minute he says fine,
> whatever, just get it done. They look (all 3 of them, how freaking
> stupid) and all agree that he needs surgery to open it up more. It's
> not an emergency so I can call tomorrow to schedule the pre-op
> consult.
>
> Draven went back to being curled in a ball, wouldn't talk to me for
> the rest of the time there, or the ride home and pulled away whenever
> I tried to touch him.
>
> He asked to be dropped off at home while my partner and I went to the
> grocery store, we offered to have either of us stay with him, he said
> no he needed alone time.
>
> By the time we got back from the quick shopping trip he was basically
> back to his normal self. He helped with the groceries, loved the
> little surprises (favorite foods) we got for him, joked and laughed
> around with us like nothing was wrong. He asked when he'll meet with
> the surgeons, I explained we needed to schedule it and asked if it was
> okay that I did that tomorrow, he said it's fine just to let him know
> what's happening.
>
> He's made a few jokes about it, some which hurt my feelings (better
> not upset mom, she'll hold me down and let them get me), but I know
> it's his way of dealing with it. In the end, it mostly came out fine,
> however I know I destroyed quite a bit of the trust he has in me. I
> can't figure out how I could have handled today better that would have
> gotten this situation checked out, but still let him feel in control.
> I'm at a loss.
>
> Thanks for any insight.
>
> Tina
>

Rinelle

My daughter is six, and I'm beginning to be really concerned about her food
choices. She is pretty much living on rice wheels (flavoured rice cakes, so
puffed rice), and hot potato chips/fries. That is about all she wants to
eat (other than some ice cream, chocolate and lollies thrown in there), and
I'm really feeling like it's not meeting her body's needs at this point, but
I really don't know how to help her, or what to do. She will eat 3-4
packets of rice wheels a day (they are quite small packets), and 2-3
servings of chips (or chip like products, like hash browns etc) a day. She
will only pick at dinner (vegetables and a meat serving usually), and will
sample fruit if it's offered. I did try getting a multivitamin, thinking
that would allay some of my concerns (and DH's), but she won't eat it.

She's complaining about being tired a lot lately, and I'm not sure if it's
the food, or possibly the lack of sleep (she hates sleeping, and will say
"I'm tired," then "I don't want to go to bed" in the same sentence. She
will ask to go to bed, then once we're in there, want to get straight back
up again (which I have to admit, we don't do).

I don't know how to help her. I don't want to be pushy about food, but it
just seems that we're not getting to the point where she will choose any
foods other than the ones mentioned above. She used to eat a lot of
sandwiches, and a huge plate of fruit, and most of her dinner, but since
we've dropped the controls on food (which weren't really that extreme, more
just not having that kind of food in the house) about 4 months ago or so,
this is all we're seeing.

Funnily enough, I'm not in the least worried about her eating
lollies/chocolate, because she seems to have a really good sense of when
she's had enough, and will often stop eating half way through a chocolate
bar etc, saying she doesn't want the rest. Why is she like this with other
types of food?

I'd love to hear any advice on how to get her eating a bit better. I don't
really mind how many chips etc she eats, just so long as she's eating
something else as well!

Tamara

Andrea Catalano

Hi Tamara, About sleep -- she says she's tired but doesn't want to go to bed. Can you help her get comfortable on the couch with covers, a pillow and you with her or nearby? She just might not like being alone in bed. If she lies down on the couch with lights low while you read a book (to yourself) or have the tv on a quiet channel with volume low, she will probably fall asleep on the couch if she's tired. She can be carried to her bed later.

andrea

Sent from my iPhone

Kelly Lovejoy

When I was three, I ate ONLY Rice Krispies cereal. For seven months. I'm fine. <g>


Often kids will eat 1) things that they make themselves and 2) things that can be dipped.



Maybe french fry your own vegies---like shaved sweet potatoes, shaved zucchini, shaved carrots, tiny broccoli florets. (Put the carrots, zucchini and sweet potatoes in ice water first: they'll curl!) Let her help. Serve them with a sauce---like bbq or ranch or bleu cheese. Make sure they are things *you* would eat, so that you *will* eat them when she refuses. I wouldn't make a big deal out of it---just let her help make them for *you*.


Make fondue (two birds here too, making and dipping). Meat, cheese, and chocolate/dessert are all fun!


Make mini sandwiches---Pepperidge Farm makes a thin, thin bread---and cut them out with cookie cutters. Maybe use a panini maker or make grilled cheese sandwiches.


Make your own puffed rice cakes. There are tons of recipes online. Add things she suggests for fun.


It sounds as if it *could* be the crunchiness/crispness she prefers now---find/make crunchier things.


As for sleep: if you don't/won't let her get up again, she's probably avoiding GOing to bed. I'd be willing to get back up with her. Or let her fall asleep beside you on the sofa. She's still little enough to carry to bed.




~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson



-----Original Message-----
From: Rinelle <rinelle@...>


My daughter is six, and I'm beginning to be really concerned about her food
choices. She is pretty much living on rice wheels (flavoured rice cakes, so
puffed rice), and hot potato chips/fries. That is about all she wants to
eat (other than some ice cream, chocolate and lollies thrown in there), and
I'm really feeling like it's not meeting her body's needs at this point, but
I really don't know how to help her, or what to do. She will eat 3-4
packets of rice wheels a day (they are quite small packets), and 2-3
servings of chips (or chip like products, like hash browns etc) a day. She
will only pick at dinner (vegetables and a meat serving usually), and will
sample fruit if it's offered. I did try getting a multivitamin, thinking
that would allay some of my concerns (and DH's), but she won't eat it.

She's complaining about being tired a lot lately, and I'm not sure if it's
the food, or possibly the lack of sleep (she hates sleeping, and will say
"I'm tired," then "I don't want to go to bed" in the same sentence. She
will ask to go to bed, then once we're in there, want to get straight back
up again (which I have to admit, we don't do).

I don't know how to help her. I don't want to be pushy about food, but it
just seems that we're not getting to the point where she will choose any
foods other than the ones mentioned above. She used to eat a lot of
sandwiches, and a huge plate of fruit, and most of her dinner, but since
we've dropped the controls on food (which weren't really that extreme, more
just not having that kind of food in the house) about 4 months ago or so,
this is all we're seeing.

Funnily enough, I'm not in the least worried about her eating
lollies/chocolate, because she seems to have a really good sense of when
she's had enough, and will often stop eating half way through a chocolate
bar etc, saying she doesn't want the rest. Why is she like this with other
types of food?

I'd love to hear any advice on how to get her eating a bit better. I don't
really mind how many chips etc she eats, just so long as she's eating
something else as well!

Tamara






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rinelle

Thanks for your replies. I'm feeling a little more relaxed about it today.
I seem to go through periods of being really concerned, and then periods
when I can deal with it OK, and realise that it's probably temporary.

She isn't into dips at all. She will sometimes do dips into honey or jam,
but pretty much only bread. She loves cooking, especially cooking computer
games, but making her own doesn't have any correlation to her eating it.

She has always been a very picky eater, and I can totally sympathise,
because I am myself. She basically won't eat anything mixed, anything with
sauce (she makes her own pizza with no sauce and only bacon pices and
pineapple pieces on top, then will seperate them before she eats them pretty
much!) or gravy or soups etc. Once I tried making my own tomato sauce as an
experiment, and she tasted it, and hasn't eaten tomato sauce since, even
though I only buy it now.

My guess on why she likes the chips and rice cakes is that they're
processed, and taste exactly the same every time s he has them, no
surprises. It's only a guess though, and she's too young to really confirm
it for me. I only wish I had of known this years ago, and I possibly could
have helped her to be able to rely on other foods being the same! We are
slowly working on finding foods that are similar, yet different, to the
ones she likes, and some days I realise that we're getting there. I just
need to be patient I guess, and not panic. :)

With the sleep, I know we're not fully unschooling it yet. I'm trying to
work towards it, but right now, I'm just not ready to take the risks that I
can see coming with fully letting go of a bedtime. So far, she won't go to
sleep unless she is in her room with the lights out, her white noise sound
on etc. I do always stay with her until she's asleep, and we're reasonably
flexible on bedtimes. She won't fall asleep on the couch though, because
she just won't sit still long enough! She will keep playing and running
around and playing until she gets grumpy and starts screaming at everyone
and crying. I'm hoping that as she gets older (and most importantly, a
little self reliant so that DH and I can do something ourselves instead of
continuously occupying her), that we can let up on bedtimes even more.

Tamara

kmlewpea

My son struggles with other people touching him and sensory things.. it can
be such a hard thing when his particular barometer of sensitive is in
conflict with my fears as a parent. I use the wait and see approach a lot.
Pretty much all the time. We talk about it all and foreshadow it all.
Only three times have I had to just leap into action or been in
uncomfortable medical situations in the 5 years since he was born.

At 15 months the docs thought he had leukemia. He did not - he had a very
rare aplastic crisis and fully recovered. This was all discovered at the ER
when we were in for a high fever and complications of a cold - we thought.
Similar to your post. There were procedures etc. (He had every marker in
his blood etc - there was time sensitive information that was critically
needed to figure out how to treat him.) The ER folks kept saying they were
going to do the initial procedure soon and wanted me not to breastfeed him.
He ended up hysterical because I had never in his life refused to nurse
him. I had to leave the room and could hear him screaming to his daddy from
the waiting room that he needed his mama and to nurse. I learned in that
moment, that other people need to wait and any people pleasing tendency I
had would be dominated by my mama bear. I should have (and would any time
after that) nursed him and made them wait the 3 hours for the test once it
was clear it would be delayed. He had no immune system and we had to go
into isolation in the pediatric oncology dept. Once admitted to the
pediatric dept, I requested (and received without any push back) to have the
crib removed and a bed to cosleep brought in, morning tests timed so that
his breastfeeding would not be held off, let them know that I would be
nursing him and if a test was delayed that we needed to work around his
nursing needs etc... I told him how sorry I was and how wrong I was to not
honor his needs because of my own fear. He was totally ok with all the
other procedures etc because he nursed down and they had me laying in his
bed as he woke from procedures. We worked with the amazing team there to do
things for him as wholly and completely as possible. In the ER, I needed to
be a more skilled and demanding advocate for him.

Once was a febrile seizure when he was almost 3 and he was so freaked out by
it and rather out of it, that he was fine about me rushing him in. He just
said he wanted his mommy with him. It was also to his regular ped who he
knew and trusted after years of gentle and child led exams etc. That was
easy enough.

Finally, he fell and cut open his head earlier this year. We are talking
big flap of skin, down to the bone cut. One look and I knew we would need
stitches and that I did not have the skill to deal with this alone and
needed help. We talked through the entire process. I was very clear with
all the ER staff that minimal people and activity should be in his room and
(in front of him) advocated for his desires with each person that came in
the room as well as asking the doctor (repeatedly) to let my son know each
and every step/touch before they happened. (And apologizing to my son when
they doctor forgot - he then stopped forgetting.) At one point a nurse
rushed in and turned on the super bright overhead light "to help" and my son
had a sensory meltdown due to that intrusion, we waited until he was ready
to proceed. At this point, the doc was fully on board and was helping to
keep the environment comfortable for my son. My bub ended up with something
like 7 stitches. He screamed with each stitch (very very numbed with
medication both internal and topical and only begun when he said to) and I
asked him if he wanted to wait and stop. He said no. He said he just
wanted to get it done and that it did not really hurt, but it was scary and
he just needed to scream and he needed me to hold him and then he needed his
daddy to get him 3 flavors of coconut milk ice cream. I teared up at his
amazing ability to articulate his needs and his trust that we would do
everything we could to make it happen. I would not have handled this
situation as well as I did, had I not learned from our previous ER
experience.

So, you say your are sorry and you learn. My kids know I am a flawed and
imperfect human. They also know that I am working to be the best person and
mommy I can. When I discover that I have made a choice based in fear or
anger, then I say I am sorry and tell them that I made a poor choice from a
place of fear, anger etc and tell them how I plan to work to make a
different choice next time. I think this gives them the freedom to be their
own imperfect humans and know that the love here is unconditional. Give
them the greatest amount of voice they can have - ask for it, facilitate it
etc. Say your sorry when you don't protect them or listen when they are
telling you their needs. I think trust is a process and it is very rare for
a single event to destroy it. But, that does not mean that you do not have
work to do to hear his feelings about this, honor his needs and feelings,
help him choose how to proceed and acknowledge your role and the decisions
that you are sorry for. Not in a self judgmental way - self flagellation
and guilt is not needed. Just in an honest and open way.

peace,
kathryn


On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Cara A <joeybiscuit@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Poor Tina!
>
> I totally understand freaking out and doing the wrong thing.
> I am learning the hard way about how I want to parent too.
>
> Faith nailed it by saying you need to apologize.
>
> We're still waiting out the "foreskin not retracting" thing with my 8 year
> old, and I haven't even discussed it with him yet...<sigh>.
>
> This post will prompt me to discuss it today.
>
> Thanks for the reminder and good luck with that discussion!!!
>
> Cara
>
>
> --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Tina Tarbutton <tina.tarbutton@...> wrote:
> >
> > I know I handled this whole situation wrong, and at the time I knew I
> > was handling it wrong, but I couldn't figure out another way to handle
> > it and felt like it had to be done. So now I'm opening up to you guys
> > hoping someone can give me some better insights on how to handle it,
> > if it occurs again.
> >
> > I also plan to talk to my son tomorrow when we're a bit further from
> > the situation to find out a better way to handle it.
> >
> > My 10 y/o son Draven told me last night that he was having a hard time
> > emptying his bladder, and that he felt a lot of pressure when he was
> > urinating. I figured it was the beginning of a UTI and called the
> > doctors office this morning. They said they don't have a way to do
> > urinalysis there, and for us to just hit the ER because it would be
> > quicker then them waiting for results.
> >
> > So we get to the ER, everything is okay, he pees in a cup, they send
> > it off, we get into the room and the doctor wants to have a quick look
> > "down there". Draven says no at first, but after I talked to him and
> > explained it would be quick and fast and would just happen once
> > (whoops, big mistake), he agreed, I turned my head, he covered his
> > eyes, the doctor looked and said we'd wait for the results from the
> > urinalysis.
> >
> > He comes back 30 minutes later with another doctor. Said the quick
> > test of the urine was negative, but that he thought the opening to his
> > urethra was too small for his age and wanted another opinion (from
> > this other doctor). Draven went ballistic, no, mommy said once, you
> > guys had your chance, you didn't figure it out, you're not looking
> > again, no no no no no. I pulled the doctor aside and asked how big of
> > an issue it was if it was too small and he asked me a few questions,
> > all of which had an affirmative answer (he's always used the restroom
> > a whole lot ever since he was first potty trained, we're constantly
> > rushing to bathrooms, and he had accidents for long after he knew how
> > to use the toilet). The doctor then told me this problem will get
> > worse if the urethra opening is too small, and may in fact cause him
> > more serious problems once he his puberty. So I got scared, wanted
> > this taken care of and decided to put my foot down. This consisted of
> > a nurse and I holding Draven down while they looked. The whole time
> > him and I are both in tears, I know I've screwed up, but I'm worried
> > about his health at this point.
> >
> > That doctor says yes, something is wrong, we'll have the surgical team
> > take a look if the long urinalysis comes back negative.
> >
> > Draven curls into a ball and says (and I quote here) "screw you all,
> > not another person is touching me, it's time to go home".
> >
> > I calm him down again and we take a walk outside so we can call his
> > father (who lives 14 hours away) and maybe he can explain why this is
> > so important. We also call my partner, his stepmom, so she can be
> > there for moral support for both of us.
> >
> > By the time we get back inside the urinalysis is back and negative.
> > Draven won't let me touch him and won't talk to me, he all but cussed
> > his dad out on the phone. I was expecting him to take off at any
> > second and I couldn't figure out how to make him feel more in control
> > while still protecting his health. I even asked the doctor if it was
> > possible to either sedate him or give him something for anxiety to try
> > and make this easier. They refused.
> >
> > Surgical team comes in, it starts to look like it's going to be
> > another hold him down situation, but at the last minute he says fine,
> > whatever, just get it done. They look (all 3 of them, how freaking
> > stupid) and all agree that he needs surgery to open it up more. It's
> > not an emergency so I can call tomorrow to schedule the pre-op
> > consult.
> >
> > Draven went back to being curled in a ball, wouldn't talk to me for
> > the rest of the time there, or the ride home and pulled away whenever
> > I tried to touch him.
> >
> > He asked to be dropped off at home while my partner and I went to the
> > grocery store, we offered to have either of us stay with him, he said
> > no he needed alone time.
> >
> > By the time we got back from the quick shopping trip he was basically
> > back to his normal self. He helped with the groceries, loved the
> > little surprises (favorite foods) we got for him, joked and laughed
> > around with us like nothing was wrong. He asked when he'll meet with
> > the surgeons, I explained we needed to schedule it and asked if it was
> > okay that I did that tomorrow, he said it's fine just to let him know
> > what's happening.
> >
> > He's made a few jokes about it, some which hurt my feelings (better
> > not upset mom, she'll hold me down and let them get me), but I know
> > it's his way of dealing with it. In the end, it mostly came out fine,
> > however I know I destroyed quite a bit of the trust he has in me. I
> > can't figure out how I could have handled today better that would have
> > gotten this situation checked out, but still let him feel in control.
> > I'm at a loss.
> >
> > Thanks for any insight.
> >
> > Tina
> >
>
>
>



--
Nonviolence is absolute commitment to the way of love. Love is not emotional
bash; it is not empty sentimentalism. It is the active outpouring of one's
whole being into the being of another.
--Martin Luther King, Jr. 1957


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sacha Davis

Thank you for sharing this - it was beautiful and such an example of
thoughtful parenting.

S.


My son struggles with other people touching him and sensory things.. it
> can
> be such a hard thing when his particular barometer of sensitive is in
> conflict with my fears as a parent. I use the wait and see approach a
> lot.
> Pretty much all the time. We talk about it all and foreshadow it all.
> Only three times have I had to just leap into action or been in
> uncomfortable medical situations in the 5 years since he was born.
>
> At 15 months the docs thought he had leukemia. He did not - he had a very
> rare aplastic crisis and fully recovered. This was all discovered at the
> ER
> when we were in for a high fever and complications of a cold - we thought.
> Similar to your post. There were procedures etc. (He had every marker
> in
> his blood etc - there was time sensitive information that was critically
> needed to figure out how to treat him.) The ER folks kept saying they
> were
> going to do the initial procedure soon and wanted me not to breastfeed
> him.
> He ended up hysterical because I had never in his life refused to nurse
> him. I had to leave the room and could hear him screaming to his daddy
> from
> the waiting room that he needed his mama and to nurse. I learned in that
> moment, that other people need to wait and any people pleasing tendency I
> had would be dominated by my mama bear. I should have (and would any time
> after that) nursed him and made them wait the 3 hours for the test once it
> was clear it would be delayed. He had no immune system and we had to go
> into isolation in the pediatric oncology dept. Once admitted to the
> pediatric dept, I requested (and received without any push back) to have
> the
> crib removed and a bed to cosleep brought in, morning tests timed so that
> his breastfeeding would not be held off, let them know that I would be
> nursing him and if a test was delayed that we needed to work around his
> nursing needs etc... I told him how sorry I was and how wrong I was to
> not
> honor his needs because of my own fear. He was totally ok with all the
> other procedures etc because he nursed down and they had me laying in his
> bed as he woke from procedures. We worked with the amazing team there to
> do
> things for him as wholly and completely as possible. In the ER, I needed
> to
> be a more skilled and demanding advocate for him.
>
> Once was a febrile seizure when he was almost 3 and he was so freaked out
> by
> it and rather out of it, that he was fine about me rushing him in. He
> just
> said he wanted his mommy with him. It was also to his regular ped who he
> knew and trusted after years of gentle and child led exams etc. That was
> easy enough.
>
> Finally, he fell and cut open his head earlier this year. We are talking
> big flap of skin, down to the bone cut. One look and I knew we would need
> stitches and that I did not have the skill to deal with this alone and
> needed help. We talked through the entire process. I was very clear with
> all the ER staff that minimal people and activity should be in his room
> and
> (in front of him) advocated for his desires with each person that came in
> the room as well as asking the doctor (repeatedly) to let my son know each
> and every step/touch before they happened. (And apologizing to my son
> when
> they doctor forgot - he then stopped forgetting.) At one point a nurse
> rushed in and turned on the super bright overhead light "to help" and my
> son
> had a sensory meltdown due to that intrusion, we waited until he was ready
> to proceed. At this point, the doc was fully on board and was helping to
> keep the environment comfortable for my son. My bub ended up with
> something
> like 7 stitches. He screamed with each stitch (very very numbed with
> medication both internal and topical and only begun when he said to) and I
> asked him if he wanted to wait and stop. He said no. He said he just
> wanted to get it done and that it did not really hurt, but it was scary
> and
> he just needed to scream and he needed me to hold him and then he needed
> his
> daddy to get him 3 flavors of coconut milk ice cream. I teared up at his
> amazing ability to articulate his needs and his trust that we would do
> everything we could to make it happen. I would not have handled this
> situation as well as I did, had I not learned from our previous ER
> experience.
>
> So, you say your are sorry and you learn. My kids know I am a flawed and
> imperfect human. They also know that I am working to be the best person
> and
> mommy I can. When I discover that I have made a choice based in fear or
> anger, then I say I am sorry and tell them that I made a poor choice from
> a
> place of fear, anger etc and tell them how I plan to work to make a
> different choice next time. I think this gives them the freedom to be
> their
> own imperfect humans and know that the love here is unconditional. Give
> them the greatest amount of voice they can have - ask for it, facilitate
> it
> etc. Say your sorry when you don't protect them or listen when they are
> telling you their needs. I think trust is a process and it is very rare
> for
> a single event to destroy it. But, that does not mean that you do not
> have
> work to do to hear his feelings about this, honor his needs and feelings,
> help him choose how to proceed and acknowledge your role and the decisions
> that you are sorry for. Not in a self judgmental way - self flagellation
> and guilt is not needed. Just in an honest and open way.
>
> peace,
> kathryn
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Cara A <joeybiscuit@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Poor Tina!
>>
>> I totally understand freaking out and doing the wrong thing.
>> I am learning the hard way about how I want to parent too.
>>
>> Faith nailed it by saying you need to apologize.
>>
>> We're still waiting out the "foreskin not retracting" thing with my 8
>> year
>> old, and I haven't even discussed it with him yet...<sigh>.
>>
>> This post will prompt me to discuss it today.
>>
>> Thanks for the reminder and good luck with that discussion!!!
>>
>> Cara
>>
>>
>> --- In
>> [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
>> Tina Tarbutton <tina.tarbutton@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > I know I handled this whole situation wrong, and at the time I knew I
>> > was handling it wrong, but I couldn't figure out another way to handle
>> > it and felt like it had to be done. So now I'm opening up to you guys
>> > hoping someone can give me some better insights on how to handle it,
>> > if it occurs again.
>> >
>> > I also plan to talk to my son tomorrow when we're a bit further from
>> > the situation to find out a better way to handle it.
>> >
>> > My 10 y/o son Draven told me last night that he was having a hard time
>> > emptying his bladder, and that he felt a lot of pressure when he was
>> > urinating. I figured it was the beginning of a UTI and called the
>> > doctors office this morning. They said they don't have a way to do
>> > urinalysis there, and for us to just hit the ER because it would be
>> > quicker then them waiting for results.
>> >
>> > So we get to the ER, everything is okay, he pees in a cup, they send
>> > it off, we get into the room and the doctor wants to have a quick look
>> > "down there". Draven says no at first, but after I talked to him and
>> > explained it would be quick and fast and would just happen once
>> > (whoops, big mistake), he agreed, I turned my head, he covered his
>> > eyes, the doctor looked and said we'd wait for the results from the
>> > urinalysis.
>> >
>> > He comes back 30 minutes later with another doctor. Said the quick
>> > test of the urine was negative, but that he thought the opening to his
>> > urethra was too small for his age and wanted another opinion (from
>> > this other doctor). Draven went ballistic, no, mommy said once, you
>> > guys had your chance, you didn't figure it out, you're not looking
>> > again, no no no no no. I pulled the doctor aside and asked how big of
>> > an issue it was if it was too small and he asked me a few questions,
>> > all of which had an affirmative answer (he's always used the restroom
>> > a whole lot ever since he was first potty trained, we're constantly
>> > rushing to bathrooms, and he had accidents for long after he knew how
>> > to use the toilet). The doctor then told me this problem will get
>> > worse if the urethra opening is too small, and may in fact cause him
>> > more serious problems once he his puberty. So I got scared, wanted
>> > this taken care of and decided to put my foot down. This consisted of
>> > a nurse and I holding Draven down while they looked. The whole time
>> > him and I are both in tears, I know I've screwed up, but I'm worried
>> > about his health at this point.
>> >
>> > That doctor says yes, something is wrong, we'll have the surgical team
>> > take a look if the long urinalysis comes back negative.
>> >
>> > Draven curls into a ball and says (and I quote here) "screw you all,
>> > not another person is touching me, it's time to go home".
>> >
>> > I calm him down again and we take a walk outside so we can call his
>> > father (who lives 14 hours away) and maybe he can explain why this is
>> > so important. We also call my partner, his stepmom, so she can be
>> > there for moral support for both of us.
>> >
>> > By the time we get back inside the urinalysis is back and negative.
>> > Draven won't let me touch him and won't talk to me, he all but cussed
>> > his dad out on the phone. I was expecting him to take off at any
>> > second and I couldn't figure out how to make him feel more in control
>> > while still protecting his health. I even asked the doctor if it was
>> > possible to either sedate him or give him something for anxiety to try
>> > and make this easier. They refused.
>> >
>> > Surgical team comes in, it starts to look like it's going to be
>> > another hold him down situation, but at the last minute he says fine,
>> > whatever, just get it done. They look (all 3 of them, how freaking
>> > stupid) and all agree that he needs surgery to open it up more. It's
>> > not an emergency so I can call tomorrow to schedule the pre-op
>> > consult.
>> >
>> > Draven went back to being curled in a ball, wouldn't talk to me for
>> > the rest of the time there, or the ride home and pulled away whenever
>> > I tried to touch him.
>> >
>> > He asked to be dropped off at home while my partner and I went to the
>> > grocery store, we offered to have either of us stay with him, he said
>> > no he needed alone time.
>> >
>> > By the time we got back from the quick shopping trip he was basically
>> > back to his normal self. He helped with the groceries, loved the
>> > little surprises (favorite foods) we got for him, joked and laughed
>> > around with us like nothing was wrong. He asked when he'll meet with
>> > the surgeons, I explained we needed to schedule it and asked if it was
>> > okay that I did that tomorrow, he said it's fine just to let him know
>> > what's happening.
>> >
>> > He's made a few jokes about it, some which hurt my feelings (better
>> > not upset mom, she'll hold me down and let them get me), but I know
>> > it's his way of dealing with it. In the end, it mostly came out fine,
>> > however I know I destroyed quite a bit of the trust he has in me. I
>> > can't figure out how I could have handled today better that would have
>> > gotten this situation checked out, but still let him feel in control.
>> > I'm at a loss.
>> >
>> > Thanks for any insight.
>> >
>> > Tina
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nonviolence is absolute commitment to the way of love. Love is not
> emotional
> bash; it is not empty sentimentalism. It is the active outpouring of one's
> whole being into the being of another.
> --Martin Luther King, Jr. 1957
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>