dealing with my own anger
cathy_jerad_adela
We've been deschooling for several months with our now-3 y.o. dd, and we've come a long way towards unschooling (sleep, food, learning, behaviour, ...). But I'm struggling to deal with my own anger. Every other day, it seems, I'll get upset by something and get angry. My angry emotion comes very quicky and intensely. Mainly it comes out in demanding my own way and sometimes condemning her for what she's been doing. I'm like a toddler having a hissy fit and (almost) stomping because I want my own way. I hope I'm giving a clear enough description. I think it's pretty harmful though not full-on verbal abuse, just to clarify. Her reaction is mainly to be a bit shocked, quiet, and pursue me and give me cuddles and say she loves me. I think that's probably because my behaviour threatens her connection to me and she has to try to reconnect to her caring Mummy.
It's usually triggered by dd not doing what I want, with some other pressure on top of it (like someone else is waiting for us somewhere else, someone else is observing us, or me thinking I've had enough and don't want to continue doing this). For example, waiting in the car while she plays and doesn't want to get in the carseat; or me wanting to sleep and her wanting me with her but she keeps wiggling around and I can't sleep).
Once I realise I've lost my cool, and sometimes when I'm just starting to get angry, I try to get a few minutes to myself to calm down and figure out what's bothering me and what to do about it. Then I'm usually fine again.
But I keep doing it! No matter how much healing I've had over the years, I've got this real impatience and intolerance, and this intense quick reaction. I am fine with her not doing what I want many times per day, but get angry at other times (less often). I know what I do is unreasonable and childish, and far worse behaviour than whatever she's doing, which is usually totally fine and appropriate for her.
I'd love to hear how any of you have tackled similar problems, or any suggestions you have.
Thank you,
Cathy
It's usually triggered by dd not doing what I want, with some other pressure on top of it (like someone else is waiting for us somewhere else, someone else is observing us, or me thinking I've had enough and don't want to continue doing this). For example, waiting in the car while she plays and doesn't want to get in the carseat; or me wanting to sleep and her wanting me with her but she keeps wiggling around and I can't sleep).
Once I realise I've lost my cool, and sometimes when I'm just starting to get angry, I try to get a few minutes to myself to calm down and figure out what's bothering me and what to do about it. Then I'm usually fine again.
But I keep doing it! No matter how much healing I've had over the years, I've got this real impatience and intolerance, and this intense quick reaction. I am fine with her not doing what I want many times per day, but get angry at other times (less often). I know what I do is unreasonable and childish, and far worse behaviour than whatever she's doing, which is usually totally fine and appropriate for her.
I'd love to hear how any of you have tackled similar problems, or any suggestions you have.
Thank you,
Cathy
Monica Van Stelton
Hello Cathy,
It looks like you were describing me sometimes! Wow! I am very loving with my toddler, really loving but sometimes he pushes my buttons and makes me feel really angry....just like you described. I try hard not to get mad.....And I do give him freedom but sometimes ay ay ay...Example, I am taking him for a walk in his bugaboo along with my 2 chihuahuas. we are going uphill the he decides to pull the shade off...It is so hard to fix it...on top of it I had to hold the leashes and when I try to put it back he keeps pulling it again....so I blew up like a mad bomb...I got in the ring with him....So what I am going to do now it is to remove the cause of that anger, I will pull the shade out and leave it home....This way there is nothing that would get me mad when we walk..I'll try put it back in the near future.
I read a book that says that children often push your buttons to get you into the ring. Once they get you there you guys fight, right? so what it suggests is to go around the ring and get to your child from a calm and loving point.
I am trying to do what the book "1,2,3 Toddler years suggests". It try to give him 2 choices...Do you want to get into the car seat by yourself or want mommy to seat you...Do you want to put the red shirt or the blue one...It would work better with your daughter since she is older. It gives them a sense of power and you got what you wanted: get her into the car seat or putting the shirt on.
As far as dealing with anger I haven't figured out yet...I keep telling myself If it is that the way I want my son to behave when he is mad or frustrated....I don't so I hope at some point I change that...I want to be a perfect mom...I pray for more patience....
Good luck!
Monica
It looks like you were describing me sometimes! Wow! I am very loving with my toddler, really loving but sometimes he pushes my buttons and makes me feel really angry....just like you described. I try hard not to get mad.....And I do give him freedom but sometimes ay ay ay...Example, I am taking him for a walk in his bugaboo along with my 2 chihuahuas. we are going uphill the he decides to pull the shade off...It is so hard to fix it...on top of it I had to hold the leashes and when I try to put it back he keeps pulling it again....so I blew up like a mad bomb...I got in the ring with him....So what I am going to do now it is to remove the cause of that anger, I will pull the shade out and leave it home....This way there is nothing that would get me mad when we walk..I'll try put it back in the near future.
I read a book that says that children often push your buttons to get you into the ring. Once they get you there you guys fight, right? so what it suggests is to go around the ring and get to your child from a calm and loving point.
I am trying to do what the book "1,2,3 Toddler years suggests". It try to give him 2 choices...Do you want to get into the car seat by yourself or want mommy to seat you...Do you want to put the red shirt or the blue one...It would work better with your daughter since she is older. It gives them a sense of power and you got what you wanted: get her into the car seat or putting the shirt on.
As far as dealing with anger I haven't figured out yet...I keep telling myself If it is that the way I want my son to behave when he is mad or frustrated....I don't so I hope at some point I change that...I want to be a perfect mom...I pray for more patience....
Good luck!
Monica
--- On Tue, 9/14/10, cathy_jerad_adela <livinglovingchrist@...> wrote:
From: cathy_jerad_adela <livinglovingchrist@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] dealing with my own anger
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 6:49 AM
We've been deschooling for several months with our now-3 y.o. dd, and we've come a long way towards unschooling (sleep, food, learning, behaviour, ...). But I'm struggling to deal with my own anger. Every other day, it seems, I'll get upset by something and get angry. My angry emotion comes very quicky and intensely. Mainly it comes out in demanding my own way and sometimes condemning her for what she's been doing. I'm like a toddler having a hissy fit and (almost) stomping because I want my own way. I hope I'm giving a clear enough description. I think it's pretty harmful though not full-on verbal abuse, just to clarify. Her reaction is mainly to be a bit shocked, quiet, and pursue me and give me cuddles and say she loves me. I think that's probably because my behaviour threatens her connection to me and she has to try to reconnect to her caring Mummy.
It's usually triggered by dd not doing what I want, with some other pressure on top of it (like someone else is waiting for us somewhere else, someone else is observing us, or me thinking I've had enough and don't want to continue doing this). For example, waiting in the car while she plays and doesn't want to get in the carseat; or me wanting to sleep and her wanting me with her but she keeps wiggling around and I can't sleep).
Once I realise I've lost my cool, and sometimes when I'm just starting to get angry, I try to get a few minutes to myself to calm down and figure out what's bothering me and what to do about it. Then I'm usually fine again.
But I keep doing it! No matter how much healing I've had over the years, I've got this real impatience and intolerance, and this intense quick reaction. I am fine with her not doing what I want many times per day, but get angry at other times (less often). I know what I do is unreasonable and childish, and far worse behaviour than whatever she's doing, which is usually totally fine and appropriate for her.
I'd love to hear how any of you have tackled similar problems, or any suggestions you have.
Thank you,
Cathy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ulrike Haupt
Cathy
I've observed similar anger bursts with certain people of which I later became aware of
that they have certain energetic definitions within the Human Design system. The system
advises the strategy of informing for such people, and the feedback I have received from
those whom I told about this strategy has been awesome.
So here it is. Nobody reacts well on being told what to do. Some people need to be invited
into the doing. (They need to have the freedom to decline the invitation.) Many people can
be asked into the doing. Can you do this? Will you do this? If response is affirmative,
Will you do this now? Or later? Or they respond negative, which is their right, too. And
then there are some who need to be informed that a certain thing needs to be done. They
can then decide to do it or not, after informing whether they will or not.
Now the real informing part is "Inform whoever is going to be impacted by the action that
you are going to take a certain action (and when - not why)" They may like your decision
or not, that is not your issue. People who have this energetic design have a steamroller
aura and informing softens the impact they have on the people around them.
Blissings
Ulrike
From Namibia - somewhere in Africa
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5450
(20100914) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've observed similar anger bursts with certain people of which I later became aware of
that they have certain energetic definitions within the Human Design system. The system
advises the strategy of informing for such people, and the feedback I have received from
those whom I told about this strategy has been awesome.
So here it is. Nobody reacts well on being told what to do. Some people need to be invited
into the doing. (They need to have the freedom to decline the invitation.) Many people can
be asked into the doing. Can you do this? Will you do this? If response is affirmative,
Will you do this now? Or later? Or they respond negative, which is their right, too. And
then there are some who need to be informed that a certain thing needs to be done. They
can then decide to do it or not, after informing whether they will or not.
Now the real informing part is "Inform whoever is going to be impacted by the action that
you are going to take a certain action (and when - not why)" They may like your decision
or not, that is not your issue. People who have this energetic design have a steamroller
aura and informing softens the impact they have on the people around them.
Blissings
Ulrike
From Namibia - somewhere in Africa
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5450
(20100914) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5450
(20100914) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mmbz100
I agree with Monica. The only difference is that it is my husband who loses his patience with our toddler. I have naturally gravitated towards the "choice" solution where I let my DD choose between two options that still move us forward. (as in, "do you want to get in the car seat yourself or do you want mommy to help you?"). My husband has a harder time naturally thinking this way. Especially when our DD is not behaving at the dinner table in a way that we would like/expect to see. One solution we have tried is for Daddy to have a time out. DD understands that Daddy is angry and is deprived of his company but is not left alone. And Daddy gets a chance to cool off. If one parent is naturally more comfortable with this parenting style, maybe something like this is an option, at least when you are together?
BZ
BZ
plaidpanties666
"cathy_jerad_adela" <livinglovingchrist@...> wrote:
Just like with kids ;) it helps a whole lot to have something to move Toward and not just away from - something specific. It also helps to honor your own needs - and it sounds like you need to blow off some steam when you're stressed. So find a way to do that without yelling - come up with some really specific things to do instead. At first those might include yelling "I'm so frustrated" at the ceiling! But that's Better than yelling something rude at your child.
Okay, here's the catch - you won't "get it right" every time, probably not even Most of the time at first, so a. realize that its a process! don't beat yourself up! b. focus on "next time" not every time - every time is too big, too much, "next time" is do-able; and c. try to "catch" yourself once you've started. C is important! When you find yourself thinking "this isn't what I want to be doing" stop and do your other thing - stop right in the middle of a sentence and bark like a dog, or take three deep breaths, or tell your kid you love her, or yell "I'm so frustrated" at the ceiling.
As much as coming up with a better reaction "in the moment" its really really important to look for ways to change those moments before you get to the shouting stage. Its Great that you can already see a pattern!
It seems like you need to shift your expectations as to how long something will take with a toddler - build more time into your plans. Toddlers take a long time to do things! They get distracted by this wonderful world all around them. They putter and play. They also repeat things over and over and over. Do some experiementing with different ways to transition from one thing to the next. Maybe there are times when you could swooop your dd up with a kiss and move her along. Maybe there are times when she needs a few minutes warning (toddlers can rarely keep track of more than a few minutes, though, so don't jump to 30 minute warnings or you'll get more frutrated!). Maybe there are times when she needs a prompt like "hop in the car so we can go get ice cream". Its better to have a bunch of different options for how to do things, too - you'll find each work better sometimes and not others. But there are also going to be times when the better solution is for You to wait, so have a backup plan for that. Do you have snacks, drinks and projects for You? Be sure you're taking care of yourself! I used to never go to the store without a bag of food for myself in case Mo wanted to spend a loooooong time looking at things - it saved me from having tantrums!
Finally, be sure to appologise when you lose it. Don't beat yourself up, but do say you're sorry. Not only is it helpful in the moment for repairing the situation, its helpful to kids to see adults appoligize. After all, they are going to grow up to be adults who make mistakes - knowing that's normal and natural and what to do next will be helpful to them down the road.
---Meredith
>> But I keep doing it! No matter how much healing I've had over the years, I've got this real impatience and intolerance, and this intense quick reaction.***************
Just like with kids ;) it helps a whole lot to have something to move Toward and not just away from - something specific. It also helps to honor your own needs - and it sounds like you need to blow off some steam when you're stressed. So find a way to do that without yelling - come up with some really specific things to do instead. At first those might include yelling "I'm so frustrated" at the ceiling! But that's Better than yelling something rude at your child.
Okay, here's the catch - you won't "get it right" every time, probably not even Most of the time at first, so a. realize that its a process! don't beat yourself up! b. focus on "next time" not every time - every time is too big, too much, "next time" is do-able; and c. try to "catch" yourself once you've started. C is important! When you find yourself thinking "this isn't what I want to be doing" stop and do your other thing - stop right in the middle of a sentence and bark like a dog, or take three deep breaths, or tell your kid you love her, or yell "I'm so frustrated" at the ceiling.
> It's usually triggered by dd not doing what I want, with some other pressure on top of it (like someone else is waiting for us somewhere else, someone else is observing us, or me thinking I've had enough and don't want to continue doing this). For example, waiting in the car while she plays and doesn't want to get in the carseat; or me wanting to sleep and her wanting me with her but she keeps wiggling around and I can't sleep).********************
As much as coming up with a better reaction "in the moment" its really really important to look for ways to change those moments before you get to the shouting stage. Its Great that you can already see a pattern!
It seems like you need to shift your expectations as to how long something will take with a toddler - build more time into your plans. Toddlers take a long time to do things! They get distracted by this wonderful world all around them. They putter and play. They also repeat things over and over and over. Do some experiementing with different ways to transition from one thing to the next. Maybe there are times when you could swooop your dd up with a kiss and move her along. Maybe there are times when she needs a few minutes warning (toddlers can rarely keep track of more than a few minutes, though, so don't jump to 30 minute warnings or you'll get more frutrated!). Maybe there are times when she needs a prompt like "hop in the car so we can go get ice cream". Its better to have a bunch of different options for how to do things, too - you'll find each work better sometimes and not others. But there are also going to be times when the better solution is for You to wait, so have a backup plan for that. Do you have snacks, drinks and projects for You? Be sure you're taking care of yourself! I used to never go to the store without a bag of food for myself in case Mo wanted to spend a loooooong time looking at things - it saved me from having tantrums!
Finally, be sure to appologise when you lose it. Don't beat yourself up, but do say you're sorry. Not only is it helpful in the moment for repairing the situation, its helpful to kids to see adults appoligize. After all, they are going to grow up to be adults who make mistakes - knowing that's normal and natural and what to do next will be helpful to them down the road.
---Meredith
JJ
It sounds like conventional wisdom but as unschooling advice, this goes wrong from the start. To make the dinner table a point of contention between toddler daughter and temperamental daddy in the first place, isn't helpful to building relationships and thus not to whole-life unschooling.
(The first definition of temperamental I saw just now, is "liable to unreasonable changes of mood; irritable." It's certainly unreasonable to put a toddler at the dinner table with unreasonable adult expectations, and then to get irritable or even angry when she behaves exactly as a reasonable adult WOULD expect.)
Unfortunately the situation sounds as if it will connect unpleasantness with food and family time together, reinforced with each repetition. Another problem is making a small child feel somehow responsible for strong adult emotions, and learn that the way to cope with strong negative feelings is to leave the ones you love and go off alone.
I can't remember ever having a toddler at the dinner table -- it would have seemed like madness! <grin> -- and we never got back to it as the kids grew up, come to think of it. My unschooling advice is that it would be better to drop the whole dinner table scene than to let it become a negative experience. There are all sorts of alternatives from family carpet picnics at dinnertime to snacking and grazing through the day -- better for small tummies in any case -- so that there really isn't any sitting down to an evening meal. But at the least, for those determined to put the child at their table, better behavior at the dinner table must be expected of the adults!
"Especially when our DD is not behaving at the dinner table in a way that we would like/expect to see. One solution we have tried is for Daddy to have a time out. DD understands that Daddy is angry and is deprived of his company but is not left alone. And Daddy gets a chance to cool off."
(The first definition of temperamental I saw just now, is "liable to unreasonable changes of mood; irritable." It's certainly unreasonable to put a toddler at the dinner table with unreasonable adult expectations, and then to get irritable or even angry when she behaves exactly as a reasonable adult WOULD expect.)
Unfortunately the situation sounds as if it will connect unpleasantness with food and family time together, reinforced with each repetition. Another problem is making a small child feel somehow responsible for strong adult emotions, and learn that the way to cope with strong negative feelings is to leave the ones you love and go off alone.
I can't remember ever having a toddler at the dinner table -- it would have seemed like madness! <grin> -- and we never got back to it as the kids grew up, come to think of it. My unschooling advice is that it would be better to drop the whole dinner table scene than to let it become a negative experience. There are all sorts of alternatives from family carpet picnics at dinnertime to snacking and grazing through the day -- better for small tummies in any case -- so that there really isn't any sitting down to an evening meal. But at the least, for those determined to put the child at their table, better behavior at the dinner table must be expected of the adults!
"Especially when our DD is not behaving at the dinner table in a way that we would like/expect to see. One solution we have tried is for Daddy to have a time out. DD understands that Daddy is angry and is deprived of his company but is not left alone. And Daddy gets a chance to cool off."
>Especially when our DD is not behaving at the dinner table in a way that we would like/expect to see. One solution we have tried is for Daddy to have a time out. DD understands that Daddy is angry and is deprived of his company but is not left alone. And Daddy gets a chance to cool off.
plaidpanties666
Monica Van Stelton <tatyland_usa@...> wrote:
---Meredith
>...I want to be a perfect mom...Step away from that as much as you can! Not only is it impossible, its not helpful for kids. They are learning about everything, including how to make mistakes and how to deal with those mistakes. So they don't need parents who are perfect nearly as much as they need parents who are also learning and growing, using their own mistakes as opportunities to learn and be better people. That's not a "freebie" for being obnoxious to your kids ;) its a way to shift your perspective.
---Meredith
otherstar
>>>I am trying to do what the book "1,2,3 Toddler years suggests". It try to give him 2 choices...Do you want to get into the car seat by yourself or want mommy to seat you...Do you want to put the red shirt or the blue one...It would work better with your daughter since she is older. It gives them a sense of power and you got what you wanted: get her into the car seat or putting the shirt on.<<<When I read this when I checked my e-mail earlier, it didn't sit well with me. I wasn't sure why but then I had an incident with my 3 year old this afternoon that put it into perspective. She was tired and hungry and was melting down. When I asked her what she wanted, she got huffy and angry and told me she didn't want anything. I could feel myself getting frustrated so I did a quick mental inventory of when she last ate and slept. I knew she was hungry but she refused to take anything. Instead of giving her choices, I got a plate of food for myself and sat down to eat it. She was mad for a few minutes but she eventually came over to me and got some food and the problem was solved. Likewise, there are times that giving her options associated with the car seat do not work. At those times, I tell her that I am going to put her in the car seat and buckle up. Yes, she will fight me but once she is in and we are on our way, things are fine. Most of the time, the fighting with me is associated with her being overly tired or hungry. When she is hungry, we get her in the car and go straight to get food. If she is tired, I know that she will relax and go to sleep once she is in and on the road.
With clothes, I put all of their clothes in tubs or have them hung up in the closet so that they (all 4 girls) can get to their clothes without having to ask me. My 3 year old has very strong opinions and limiting her to two choices would really make her angry. Depending on the temperament of your child, narrowing the choices down to two can make a situation worse. Sometimes, my girls want to have a wider range of choices and sometimes they want me to make the choice for them. There is no one right answer and that can be frustrating because it seems like what works one day doesn't work the next.
>>>As far as dealing with anger I haven't figured out yet...I keep telling myself If it is that the way I want my son to behave when he is mad or frustrated....I don't so I hope at some point I change that...I want to be a perfect mom...I pray for more patience....<<<You will never be a perfect mom. There is no such thing as a perfect mom. I have a lot of anger issues. Sometimes I do better than others. When I do bad, I talk to my kids and we forgive each other. Sometimes I take deep breaths and when I exhale I make funny noises that get the kids laughing. I have been known to get whiny and act like a little kid. My kids think it is hilarious. It works really well to change the mood. At bedtime, my younger ones go crazy. We have tried all sorts of things to get them to settle down but it seems like they have quick bursts of energy just before settling down to go to sleep. During those bursts of energy, I sometimes get kicked or hit because they feed off of each other and it seems like they are bouncing off the walls. Most nights, I talk to myself in my head and remind myself that they will crash. They will only be this age once. My 9 year old used to do some of the same things but now she doesn't. I remember getting mad at her for the same things. Now, I kind of miss her being small enough to cuddle and play like her little sisters do.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mmbz100
JJ
I see your point, and we don't make it a command performance to have dinner together *every* night, but our child is an only child (by necessity, unfortunately, not by choice) and so I worry about her always eating alone. Maybe I don't need to worry about family dinner until she's a little older and then go from there.
BZ
I see your point, and we don't make it a command performance to have dinner together *every* night, but our child is an only child (by necessity, unfortunately, not by choice) and so I worry about her always eating alone. Maybe I don't need to worry about family dinner until she's a little older and then go from there.
BZ
--- In [email protected], "JJ" <jrossedd@...> wrote:
>
> It sounds like conventional wisdom but as unschooling advice, this goes wrong from the start. To make the dinner table a point of contention between toddler daughter and temperamental daddy in the first place, isn't helpful to building relationships and thus not to whole-life unschooling.
>
> (The first definition of temperamental I saw just now, is "liable to unreasonable changes of mood; irritable." It's certainly unreasonable to put a toddler at the dinner table with unreasonable adult expectations, and then to get irritable or even angry when she behaves exactly as a reasonable adult WOULD expect.)
>
> Unfortunately the situation sounds as if it will connect unpleasantness with food and family time together, reinforced with each repetition. Another problem is making a small child feel somehow responsible for strong adult emotions, and learn that the way to cope with strong negative feelings is to leave the ones you love and go off alone.
>
> I can't remember ever having a toddler at the dinner table -- it would have seemed like madness! <grin> -- and we never got back to it as the kids grew up, come to think of it. My unschooling advice is that it would be better to drop the whole dinner table scene than to let it become a negative experience. There are all sorts of alternatives from family carpet picnics at dinnertime to snacking and grazing through the day -- better for small tummies in any case -- so that there really isn't any sitting down to an evening meal. But at the least, for those determined to put the child at their table, better behavior at the dinner table must be expected of the adults!
>
>
> "Especially when our DD is not behaving at the dinner table in a way that we would like/expect to see. One solution we have tried is for Daddy to have a time out. DD understands that Daddy is angry and is deprived of his company but is not left alone. And Daddy gets a chance to cool off."
>
> >
> Especially when our DD is not behaving at the dinner table in a way that we would like/expect to see. One solution we have tried is for Daddy to have a time out. DD understands that Daddy is angry and is deprived of his company but is not left alone. And Daddy gets a chance to cool off.
>
Monica Van Stelton
Thank you Meredith. I just love him so much that when I am not loving as I usually am I feel like a bad mother...I worked with children since 1999 and went to college to learn Child development and to be a teacher... So that learning and growing I thought I would do it then and now be closer to perfection...But it's so funny I am still learning, and I guess it will be like this until the day I die, and even then I'll learn how to die....
Thanks!
Monica
Thanks!
Monica
--- On Tue, 9/14/10, plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
From: plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: dealing with my own anger
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 2:16 PM
Monica Van Stelton <tatyland_usa@...> wrote:
>...I want to be a perfect mom...
Step away from that as much as you can! Not only is it impossible, its not helpful for kids. They are learning about everything, including how to make mistakes and how to deal with those mistakes. So they don't need parents who are perfect nearly as much as they need parents who are also learning and growing, using their own mistakes as opportunities to learn and be better people. That's not a "freebie" for being obnoxious to your kids ;) its a way to shift your perspective.
---Meredith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 14, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Monica Van Stelton wrote:
Patience can be like paint over rotten wood. More patience is just a
heavier coat of paint. What you need is new wood beneath.
Three things will help replace the rotten wood:
1) A mental shift in your expectations and how you view your child.
A small child sees the world differently. A knocked over glass isn't a
mess, it's an experiment in gravity. It's a big reaction to a small
action. It's a shiny colorful puddle that may leave a ghost of itself
behind.
Get into their world and see the world through their eyes and their
needs. What's it like being so small and helpless that you must rely
on the indulgence of others for even the simplest things like a glass
of water or going to the bathroom.
Pretty much the main cause of anger, frustration, lashing out is a
desire to control what can't be controlled. It's not healthy to shove
down the need and pretend it isn't there. What you need are techniques
to let go of the need to control -- like above, but others might have
more if you give specific examples --, let go of the expectations that
a situation will run a particular way or people will act as you expect
or want them to.
2) Change the environment rather than focusing on what you can't
change: your child.
See the child's actions as communication rather than pushing buttons.
They may be trying to meet a need, let you know that they have a need,
or are frustrated a need isn't being met.
Change the environment. The fewer things there are to say no to, the
more peaceful the home and you and your child.
If a child keeps doing something that bothers you, see it as a need
and either find a way they can do it safely and respectfully or
something else they can do instead. If a child is writing on the
walls, rather than focus on what they can't do, focus on what they can
do instead. Do let them know the wall is a no, but redirect them to
what they can do. They aren't being bad, they just have needs they
can't figure out how to meet. Put up longs sheets of butcher paper.
Find places where they can write on the walls. Put up some wall board.
Make sure there are lots of places and things to draw on.
3) Be aware of the build up inside you. Get to yourself before you
reach the yelling stage. Do something else.
If you do 1 and 2 there should be fewer and fewer 3s. But when they do
occur, give your child a hug and think of a specific thing you really
love about them. Or change the environment. Distract both of you with
something different. Make some change to get you off the path.
to steer a mother away from her child -- to remove the buttons from
reach -- rather than toward -- helping him meet a need. (Though I'm
glad it helped you think to remove the shade on the stroller.)
Don't see it as pushing buttons. See it as communication. They don't
yet know how to tell you what they need. They may not even know what
they need. The solution isn't to pull the buttons out of reach but to
move in closer and help the child get what they need.
If a child is, day after day, "pushing buttons" my first guess would
be they need more attention. Don't wait for them to ask (by annoying
you). Give them an abundance of attention. Some kids need more
touching and direct interaction than an adult may guess. Children
*are* inconvenient. It helps to let go of the idea of making them more
convenient. But we can help them be more joyful by tuning into their
(inexpert) communication and either fixing what's irritating them or
getting them away from it.
If the pushing buttons is a right now thing, go through the most
likely things: hungry, tired, antsy and help them move towards joy
rather than adding to the irritation.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I want to be a perfect mom...I pray for more patience....Perfection is unattainable. Making a better choice this time is doable.
Patience can be like paint over rotten wood. More patience is just a
heavier coat of paint. What you need is new wood beneath.
Three things will help replace the rotten wood:
1) A mental shift in your expectations and how you view your child.
A small child sees the world differently. A knocked over glass isn't a
mess, it's an experiment in gravity. It's a big reaction to a small
action. It's a shiny colorful puddle that may leave a ghost of itself
behind.
Get into their world and see the world through their eyes and their
needs. What's it like being so small and helpless that you must rely
on the indulgence of others for even the simplest things like a glass
of water or going to the bathroom.
Pretty much the main cause of anger, frustration, lashing out is a
desire to control what can't be controlled. It's not healthy to shove
down the need and pretend it isn't there. What you need are techniques
to let go of the need to control -- like above, but others might have
more if you give specific examples --, let go of the expectations that
a situation will run a particular way or people will act as you expect
or want them to.
2) Change the environment rather than focusing on what you can't
change: your child.
See the child's actions as communication rather than pushing buttons.
They may be trying to meet a need, let you know that they have a need,
or are frustrated a need isn't being met.
Change the environment. The fewer things there are to say no to, the
more peaceful the home and you and your child.
If a child keeps doing something that bothers you, see it as a need
and either find a way they can do it safely and respectfully or
something else they can do instead. If a child is writing on the
walls, rather than focus on what they can't do, focus on what they can
do instead. Do let them know the wall is a no, but redirect them to
what they can do. They aren't being bad, they just have needs they
can't figure out how to meet. Put up longs sheets of butcher paper.
Find places where they can write on the walls. Put up some wall board.
Make sure there are lots of places and things to draw on.
3) Be aware of the build up inside you. Get to yourself before you
reach the yelling stage. Do something else.
If you do 1 and 2 there should be fewer and fewer 3s. But when they do
occur, give your child a hug and think of a specific thing you really
love about them. Or change the environment. Distract both of you with
something different. Make some change to get you off the path.
> I read a book that says that children often push your buttons to getEven if that's occasionally true, that view of children is more likely
> you into the ring.
to steer a mother away from her child -- to remove the buttons from
reach -- rather than toward -- helping him meet a need. (Though I'm
glad it helped you think to remove the shade on the stroller.)
Don't see it as pushing buttons. See it as communication. They don't
yet know how to tell you what they need. They may not even know what
they need. The solution isn't to pull the buttons out of reach but to
move in closer and help the child get what they need.
If a child is, day after day, "pushing buttons" my first guess would
be they need more attention. Don't wait for them to ask (by annoying
you). Give them an abundance of attention. Some kids need more
touching and direct interaction than an adult may guess. Children
*are* inconvenient. It helps to let go of the idea of making them more
convenient. But we can help them be more joyful by tuning into their
(inexpert) communication and either fixing what's irritating them or
getting them away from it.
If the pushing buttons is a right now thing, go through the most
likely things: hungry, tired, antsy and help them move towards joy
rather than adding to the irritation.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 14, 2010, at 9:45 PM, mmbz100 wrote:
You may have used worry in a loose way meaning "think about" but if
you've put "think about" in the same box as worry, then it will become
a worry, a vague fear, a thought that spins in your head with no solid
cause and no solid answer.
Don't worry or even think about her eating alone. Feed her when she's
hungry. Let her come to the table and do something like finger
painting with pudding, eating dessert while you eat dinner. Let her
play at your feet. Make being with you inviting, something she wants
to do, but let it be a choice. She can't choose to be with you if you
make her.
Don't worry or think about future family meals. Focus on this family
meal. You're all healthy and happy. Rather than trying to move the
family towards an image of joyful family dinners, look at what you
have and make what joy you can out of it. Make lemonade rather than
trying to turn lemons into apples. You have a 2 yo. She can't be a 22
yo who loves to visit with her family at dinner until she's passed
through 20 years of people being the type of people she wants to visit
with. And the way you get there is by respecting her 2 yo-ness. It's
not reasonable to expect a 2 yo to want to sit through a family meal.
They're full of energy. They need to move. They need to be held. They
need lots of little meals throughout the day. Celebrate who she is
rather than trying to get her to be who you think she should be.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I see your point, and we don't make it a command performance to haveDon't worry at all. Do :-)
> dinner together *every* night, but our child is an only child (by
> necessity, unfortunately, not by choice) and so I worry about her
> always eating alone. Maybe I don't need to worry about family dinner
> until she's a little older and then go from there
You may have used worry in a loose way meaning "think about" but if
you've put "think about" in the same box as worry, then it will become
a worry, a vague fear, a thought that spins in your head with no solid
cause and no solid answer.
Don't worry or even think about her eating alone. Feed her when she's
hungry. Let her come to the table and do something like finger
painting with pudding, eating dessert while you eat dinner. Let her
play at your feet. Make being with you inviting, something she wants
to do, but let it be a choice. She can't choose to be with you if you
make her.
Don't worry or think about future family meals. Focus on this family
meal. You're all healthy and happy. Rather than trying to move the
family towards an image of joyful family dinners, look at what you
have and make what joy you can out of it. Make lemonade rather than
trying to turn lemons into apples. You have a 2 yo. She can't be a 22
yo who loves to visit with her family at dinner until she's passed
through 20 years of people being the type of people she wants to visit
with. And the way you get there is by respecting her 2 yo-ness. It's
not reasonable to expect a 2 yo to want to sit through a family meal.
They're full of energy. They need to move. They need to be held. They
need lots of little meals throughout the day. Celebrate who she is
rather than trying to get her to be who you think she should be.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
How frightening for her. She's 3. She's tiny. Stop setting up situations that lead to you exploding at her.
Build more time into your day for transitions. Tell friends and others you may be late. Start getting ready to leave earlier. It is much better to arrive a bit late with a happy child than on time with a frightened child.
Take breaks during the day. Anyone who takes care of a toddler knows you can be bone-tired by the end of the day. Nerves get frazzled. Give yourself breaks during the day and be prepared for a long bedtime routine as you both wind down gently.
Etc. Plan your day to avoid problem situations, slow down and stop before your explode.
And, I have to ask, deschooling for a 3-yo? Was she in school?
Nance
Build more time into your day for transitions. Tell friends and others you may be late. Start getting ready to leave earlier. It is much better to arrive a bit late with a happy child than on time with a frightened child.
Take breaks during the day. Anyone who takes care of a toddler knows you can be bone-tired by the end of the day. Nerves get frazzled. Give yourself breaks during the day and be prepared for a long bedtime routine as you both wind down gently.
Etc. Plan your day to avoid problem situations, slow down and stop before your explode.
And, I have to ask, deschooling for a 3-yo? Was she in school?
Nance
--- In [email protected], "cathy_jerad_adela" <livinglovingchrist@...> wrote:
>
> We've been deschooling for several months with our now-3 y.o. dd, and we've come a long way towards unschooling (sleep, food, learning, behaviour, ...). But I'm struggling to deal with my own anger. Every other day, it seems, I'll get upset by something and get angry. My angry emotion comes very quicky and intensely. Mainly it comes out in demanding my own way and sometimes condemning her for what she's been doing. I'm like a toddler having a hissy fit and (almost) stomping because I want my own way. I hope I'm giving a clear enough description. I think it's pretty harmful though not full-on verbal abuse, just to clarify. Her reaction is mainly to be a bit shocked, quiet, and pursue me and give me cuddles and say she loves me. I think that's probably because my behaviour threatens her connection to me and she has to try to reconnect to her caring Mummy.
>
> It's usually triggered by dd not doing what I want, with some other pressure on top of it (like someone else is waiting for us somewhere else, someone else is observing us, or me thinking I've had enough and don't want to continue doing this). For example, waiting in the car while she plays and doesn't want to get in the carseat; or me wanting to sleep and her wanting me with her but she keeps wiggling around and I can't sleep).
>
> Once I realise I've lost my cool, and sometimes when I'm just starting to get angry, I try to get a few minutes to myself to calm down and figure out what's bothering me and what to do about it. Then I'm usually fine again.
>
> But I keep doing it! No matter how much healing I've had over the years, I've got this real impatience and intolerance, and this intense quick reaction. I am fine with her not doing what I want many times per day, but get angry at other times (less often). I know what I do is unreasonable and childish, and far worse behaviour than whatever she's doing, which is usually totally fine and appropriate for her.
>
> I'd love to hear how any of you have tackled similar problems, or any suggestions you have.
>
> Thank you,
> Cathy
>
[email protected]
Maybe you don't ever have to worry about it or do it. We see each other all day. It's not like the kids are all off at school. There is nothing magical about seeing each other over pork chops. Connect throughout the day and don't worry about dinner.
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "mmbz100" <the.nh.attic@...> wrote:
>
> JJ
>
> I see your point, and we don't make it a command performance to have dinner together *every* night, but our child is an only child (by necessity, unfortunately, not by choice) and so I worry about her always eating alone. Maybe I don't need to worry about family dinner until she's a little older and then go from there.
>
> BZ
>
> --- In [email protected], "JJ" <jrossedd@> wrote:
> >
> > It sounds like conventional wisdom but as unschooling advice, this goes wrong from the start. To make the dinner table a point of contention between toddler daughter and temperamental daddy in the first place, isn't helpful to building relationships and thus not to whole-life unschooling.
> >
> > (The first definition of temperamental I saw just now, is "liable to unreasonable changes of mood; irritable." It's certainly unreasonable to put a toddler at the dinner table with unreasonable adult expectations, and then to get irritable or even angry when she behaves exactly as a reasonable adult WOULD expect.)
> >
> > Unfortunately the situation sounds as if it will connect unpleasantness with food and family time together, reinforced with each repetition. Another problem is making a small child feel somehow responsible for strong adult emotions, and learn that the way to cope with strong negative feelings is to leave the ones you love and go off alone.
> >
> > I can't remember ever having a toddler at the dinner table -- it would have seemed like madness! <grin> -- and we never got back to it as the kids grew up, come to think of it. My unschooling advice is that it would be better to drop the whole dinner table scene than to let it become a negative experience. There are all sorts of alternatives from family carpet picnics at dinnertime to snacking and grazing through the day -- better for small tummies in any case -- so that there really isn't any sitting down to an evening meal. But at the least, for those determined to put the child at their table, better behavior at the dinner table must be expected of the adults!
> >
> >
> > "Especially when our DD is not behaving at the dinner table in a way that we would like/expect to see. One solution we have tried is for Daddy to have a time out. DD understands that Daddy is angry and is deprived of his company but is not left alone. And Daddy gets a chance to cool off."
> >
> > >
> > Especially when our DD is not behaving at the dinner table in a way that we would like/expect to see. One solution we have tried is for Daddy to have a time out. DD understands that Daddy is angry and is deprived of his company but is not left alone. And Daddy gets a chance to cool off.
> >
>
[email protected]
You just reminded me of yesterday's "experiment."
Our 4-year-old nephew is just thrilled at being able to aim his pee. Not in the potty, of course. :) But there are many fun things that can be accomplished with his new talent. And the puddles! Wow!
Thank goodness for tile floors. And we do have more opportunities to talk about using the potty. But nothing is really as fascinating as his own experiments. :)
Nance
Our 4-year-old nephew is just thrilled at being able to aim his pee. Not in the potty, of course. :) But there are many fun things that can be accomplished with his new talent. And the puddles! Wow!
Thank goodness for tile floors. And we do have more opportunities to talk about using the potty. But nothing is really as fascinating as his own experiments. :)
Nance
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> 1) A mental shift in your expectations and how you view your child.
>
> A small child sees the world differently. A knocked over glass isn't a
> mess, it's an experiment in gravity. It's a big reaction to a small
> action. It's a shiny colorful puddle that may leave a ghost of itself
> behind.
>
>
JJ
This in turns reminds ME of my own kitchen mess last evening. We're experimenting with a small plastic bottle of cold diet coke each morning for 15-year-old Young Son (he thinks caffeine might help his brain wake up but hates all strong tastes so doesn't drink coffee with the rest of us.)
So I keep a few little bottles cold in the fridge and as I tried to cut them apart from that heavy plastic frame connecting them, I punctured one, spraying the whole wood floor and several cabinet doors like a Mento experiment. I was alone and very surprised but I laughed out loud at myself, not even irritated. My first thought was that it looked like the blood spatter patterns on crime shows and as I cleaned it, I pretended I was a detective reconstructed what had happened. I am 55 years old but treat messes like a kid. I didn't learn that kind of happy equanimity from my own parents. I learned it from my children! :)
So I keep a few little bottles cold in the fridge and as I tried to cut them apart from that heavy plastic frame connecting them, I punctured one, spraying the whole wood floor and several cabinet doors like a Mento experiment. I was alone and very surprised but I laughed out loud at myself, not even irritated. My first thought was that it looked like the blood spatter patterns on crime shows and as I cleaned it, I pretended I was a detective reconstructed what had happened. I am 55 years old but treat messes like a kid. I didn't learn that kind of happy equanimity from my own parents. I learned it from my children! :)
>
> You just reminded me of yesterday's "experiment."
>
> Our 4-year-old nephew is just thrilled at being able to aim his pee. Not in the potty, of course. :) But there are many fun things that can be accomplished with his new talent. And the puddles! Wow!
>
> >
> >
> > 1) A mental shift in your expectations and how you view your child.
> >
> > A small child sees the world differently. A knocked over glass isn't a
> > mess, it's an experiment in gravity. It's a big reaction to a small
> > action. It's a shiny colorful puddle that may leave a ghost of itself
> > behind.
> >
> >
>
plaidpanties666
"mmbz100" <the.nh.attic@...> wrote:
Think about the idea of "eating alone" for a second - is your dd *really* alone when she'd eating? Shut away somewhere or abandoned to her own devices? Probably not. And even if you're using the five minutes it takes a young child to eat to attend your own needs, are you doing other things with her for most of the day?
A "family meal" makes good sense when the family is all separated during the day. If your husband works out of the home, it may feel good to him and you to have a meal together to reconnect. If he's wanting to connect with his dd, too, then look for ways for him to spend a little time with her, too - sit and watch a show together, or play a game, or read a story, or help her take a bath. Lots of ways for dad and dd to connect - it doesn't Have to be dinner.
Don't worry at all! Make dinner time something pleasant that your dd will eventually want to join. That may not be for a few years, and it may not be consistent, but if she sees you and dad having dinner together and enjoying one another's company, she'll understand what etaing together is "for": sociability. She may come sit at the table but not want to eat, or eat a cookie or bowl of cereal - that's much like running into some friends who are going out to eat and joining them for drinks, or dessert, or just sitting at the restaurant together chit-chatting.
Alternately, you could bring dinner to her - eat where she likes to play, either at a small table or lay out a tablecloth picnic style on the floor.
---Meredith
>our child is an only child ... and so I worry about her always eating alone***********
Think about the idea of "eating alone" for a second - is your dd *really* alone when she'd eating? Shut away somewhere or abandoned to her own devices? Probably not. And even if you're using the five minutes it takes a young child to eat to attend your own needs, are you doing other things with her for most of the day?
A "family meal" makes good sense when the family is all separated during the day. If your husband works out of the home, it may feel good to him and you to have a meal together to reconnect. If he's wanting to connect with his dd, too, then look for ways for him to spend a little time with her, too - sit and watch a show together, or play a game, or read a story, or help her take a bath. Lots of ways for dad and dd to connect - it doesn't Have to be dinner.
>>Maybe I don't need to worry about family dinner until she's a little older and then go from there.**********
Don't worry at all! Make dinner time something pleasant that your dd will eventually want to join. That may not be for a few years, and it may not be consistent, but if she sees you and dad having dinner together and enjoying one another's company, she'll understand what etaing together is "for": sociability. She may come sit at the table but not want to eat, or eat a cookie or bowl of cereal - that's much like running into some friends who are going out to eat and joining them for drinks, or dessert, or just sitting at the restaurant together chit-chatting.
Alternately, you could bring dinner to her - eat where she likes to play, either at a small table or lay out a tablecloth picnic style on the floor.
---Meredith
otherstar
>>>Okay, here's the catch - you won't "get it right" every time, probably not even Most of the time at first, so a. realize that its a process! don't beat yourself up! b. focus on "next time" not every time - every time is too big, too much, "next time" is do-able; and c. try to "catch" yourself once you've started. C is important! When you find yourself thinking "this isn't what I want to be doing" stop and do your other thing - stop right in the middle of a sentence and bark like a dog, or take three deep breaths, or tell your kid you love her, or yell "I'm so frustrated" at the ceiling.<<<My family has been going through a rough patch. I think we fell into it because I got lazy and I let myself get too focused on myself. I am not sure why it happened but it did. It's weird because I fell into old patterns and really beat myself up over losing my way. It seemed like the more I focused on messing up, the more angry I got with myself and everyone around me. I was able to come out of it by doing exactly what Meredith has said above. I had to take it one minute at a time. I had to sit down with the kids and talk to them and tell them how I was feeling. I was feeling like a crappy mom because I was yelling too much. As a result, the kids were yelling too much and getting angry too easy. We talked about it and now we are working on helping each other remember that it is not cool to yell at other people. I am trying to work on using my tools better. (Taking deep breaths, counting to ten, excusing myself to go to the bathroom, going outside to check the mail, being more silly, getting more rest, eating better, getting rid of expectations, stopping and saying in a goofy voice, "Momma needs a hug", etc.)
I have also realized that I need to work or find a way to get out of the house and get some alone time. I love my kids but I want/need time to recharge my batteries. It is really hard to be present when you are running on empty.
>>>Do some experiementing with different ways to transition from one thing to the next.<<<I have tried to find ways to eliminate as many transitions as possible. My middle two daughters have a really rough time with transitions. They also don't do well with surprises. If somebody comes over during the day, my 3 year old will get really annoyed. If we go somewhere and things aren't as she expects, she will cling to me. As a result, we try to limit the transitions or find ways to make them easier. We try to let them know what to expect as often as possible. Even if you experiment and have a huge tool box of things to try, there may be times that it just doesn't work. That doesn't mean that you are a bad mom and it doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with your child. It just means that kids have bad days too. Things aren't always going to run smoothly. I think a lot of parents (myself included) get caught up some kind of idealized notion that kids should always be happy and should never have bad days.
My girls are home bodies. They like to stay home and play with their toys. My 9 year old will come right out and tell me that she doesn't want to go places because she doesn't want to think about other people. She doesn't want to watch what she says and she doesn't want to get dressed. She would rather stay home and relax and enjoy her stuff. When she told me that, I began to wonder if the little ones were feeling that way too. As a result, we quit planning outings. We hang out close to home. If we need to go shopping, my husband or I try to do it alone. That alone eliminated quite a few transitions and lowered the stress levels tremendously. If we do go out, I try to make sure that there is no schedule so that if somebody gets tired, stressed, hungry, or wants to go home, we can do it without feeling any kind of pressure.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
otherstar
When I was in college, I studied elementary education, which included classes on child development. I am constantly finding that my education has really interfered with my ability to unschool and deschool. I think that all of that "training" means that I have to do twice as much deschooling. When I was reflecting on my college education and student teaching experiences in the deschooling process, I realized that the child development courses and other classes were all focused on knowing children so that you could manipulate them into doing what you want them to do. It was all about stripping them of their power yet giving them the illusion of still having a say. The two choices thing mentioned in an earlier post made me think of that.
Every time I think I have deschooled, something else comes up that I have to rethink.
Connie
From: Monica Van Stelton
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: dealing with my own anger
Thank you Meredith. I just love him so much that when I am not loving as I usually am I feel like a bad mother...I worked with children since 1999 and went to college to learn Child development and to be a teacher... So that learning and growing I thought I would do it then and now be closer to perfection...But it's so funny I am still learning, and I guess it will be like this until the day I die, and even then I'll learn how to die....
Thanks!
Monica
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Every time I think I have deschooled, something else comes up that I have to rethink.
Connie
From: Monica Van Stelton
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: dealing with my own anger
Thank you Meredith. I just love him so much that when I am not loving as I usually am I feel like a bad mother...I worked with children since 1999 and went to college to learn Child development and to be a teacher... So that learning and growing I thought I would do it then and now be closer to perfection...But it's so funny I am still learning, and I guess it will be like this until the day I die, and even then I'll learn how to die....
Thanks!
Monica
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sharon
I haven't read through this entire thread so I am not sure if this suggestion came up or not. When my kids were that age I found the book Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn to be really helpful. For me and all my friends who have read it, we found it helped us become a more peaceful parent. It really challenged my old beliefs of parenting and help to change how I was parented to how I want to parent.
Here's a link:
http://www.amazon.com/Unconditional-Parenting-Moving-Rewards-Punishments/dp/0743487478
Best wishes,
Sharon Emerson
Here's a link:
http://www.amazon.com/Unconditional-Parenting-Moving-Rewards-Punishments/dp/0743487478
Best wishes,
Sharon Emerson
M
Thank you for starting this thread Cathy.
I have always beat myself up about the way I react when I'm angry and that self condeming behaviour only makes me even more angry.
Sometimes I go off the deep end and wish I could be as calm as Michelle Duggar is shown to be on TLC (I stopped watching that show long ago. I couldn't deal with the "perfection"). But I come back down to Earth and realize that I'm doing the best I can right now and remind myself that I must project the attitude and behaviours that I want to see in our children. Maybe that's how Mrs. Duggar does it ;)
Cheers,
Marissa
I have always beat myself up about the way I react when I'm angry and that self condeming behaviour only makes me even more angry.
Sometimes I go off the deep end and wish I could be as calm as Michelle Duggar is shown to be on TLC (I stopped watching that show long ago. I couldn't deal with the "perfection"). But I come back down to Earth and realize that I'm doing the best I can right now and remind myself that I must project the attitude and behaviours that I want to see in our children. Maybe that's how Mrs. Duggar does it ;)
Cheers,
Marissa
Karen Swanay
Mrs Duggar does not parent. She's a uterus for Jesus. They make the older
girls parent the younger children she keeps producing. And they use the
"fear of G-D" routine with their kids. I wouldn't aspire to be anything
like the Duggars.
JMO YMMV
Karen
From House, MD discussing parents of a child with Autism --
Dr Allison Cameron:Is it so wrong for them to want to have a normal child?
It's normal to want to be normal.
House: Spoken like a true circle queen. See, skinny socially privileged
white people get to draw this neat little circle, and everyone inside the
circle is normal, anyone outside the circle should be beaten, broken and
reset so they can be brought into the circle. Failing that, they should be
institutionalized or worse, pitied.
girls parent the younger children she keeps producing. And they use the
"fear of G-D" routine with their kids. I wouldn't aspire to be anything
like the Duggars.
JMO YMMV
Karen
From House, MD discussing parents of a child with Autism --
Dr Allison Cameron:Is it so wrong for them to want to have a normal child?
It's normal to want to be normal.
House: Spoken like a true circle queen. See, skinny socially privileged
white people get to draw this neat little circle, and everyone inside the
circle is normal, anyone outside the circle should be beaten, broken and
reset so they can be brought into the circle. Failing that, they should be
institutionalized or worse, pitied.
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 1:38 PM, M <mharbajan@...> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you for starting this thread Cathy.
> I have always beat myself up about the way I react when I'm angry and that
> self condeming behaviour only makes me even more angry.
> Sometimes I go off the deep end and wish I could be as calm as Michelle
> Duggar is shown to be on TLC (I stopped watching that show long ago. I
> couldn't deal with the "perfection"). But I come back down to Earth and
> realize that I'm doing the best I can right now and remind myself that I
> must project the attitude and behaviours that I want to see in our children.
> Maybe that's how Mrs. Duggar does it ;)
> Cheers,
> Marissa
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
M
LOL!! Yes, I stopped watching them after we left the church a year and a half ago. I remember telling my husband that once you get past the toddler years with the the first two kids they can take over with raising the younger ones. That was what I learned from watching that show. It's pathetic that I tried to aspire to that level of domination. Now I pay for that everyday as I struggle to become a better woman.
I want my kids to be better than me, and that begins with changing my beliefs about the parent-child relationship.
Can anyone recommend resources to help parents go from aggressive parenting to respectful parenting? Do you know what I mean? it might help Cathy as well as me and my hubby fully make the shift.
Thanks,
Marissa
I want my kids to be better than me, and that begins with changing my beliefs about the parent-child relationship.
Can anyone recommend resources to help parents go from aggressive parenting to respectful parenting? Do you know what I mean? it might help Cathy as well as me and my hubby fully make the shift.
Thanks,
Marissa
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 15, 2010, at 4:49 PM, M wrote:
http://www.freechild.info/
Each section is short and easy read. She's honest, to the point and
her outlook is infectious :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Can anyone recommend resources to help parents go from aggressiveRue Kream's book: Parenting A Free Child
> parenting to respectful parenting?
http://www.freechild.info/
Each section is short and easy read. She's honest, to the point and
her outlook is infectious :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mmbz100
I'm seeing if I can fork this thread since I feel like there are two conversations going on here.
I really appreciate everyone's thoughtful comments about Family Dinner time. Let me give you a few more specifics and maybe the group can come up with some other ideas for us too.
First of all, we have one major difference that colors a lot of my parenting decisions. I have metastatic breast cancer. This is why I have (and will only have) one child. It also means that I will be incredibly fortunate to still be around when she is as young as 5 or 6 years old. So I feel sometimes like I'm compressing a lot of things into earlier years. I want her to have a strong foundation and to be very independent because she will need that once I go.
Secondly, it is important to our family to learn proper table manners. It is a value that Dad and I share. And with a limited time frame, I'd rather she learn table manners sooner rather than later because if it's left to dad alone after I'm gone, he might revert to the way he learned which seems a lot harsher to me. Dad grew up in a very strict household (they "dressed" for dinner every night). But on the other hand, he has flawless manners. The importance of this has been that he is never uncomfortable in any (and I mean any) social situation. He has dined with royalty without having to stress about which one of the 18 pieces of silverware set in front of him he was supposed to use. It seems like a lot of training for a low likelihood situation, but when you are entrepreneurs (as we are), this is a nice skill to have in your toolkit. You never know whom you might meet and what they might be able to do for you. Admittedly, we might wait a little longer for this, but the fact is our DD has extraordinary table manners for her age, so I'd like to not backslide. And she DOES like it when we let her use a knife and fork just like mommy and daddy.
Thirdly, she is an incredibly active child with a very high metabolism. So in order to keep her blood sugar level she has to have a LOT of food. We give her snacks throughout the day, but for her eating isn't really a 5 minute affair. She needs at least 20 minutes to chew all of the food she needs to eat. (It was easier when I could give her baby food since it's a little denser calorie wise and more efficient to eat). So some of my need is trying to make dinnertime more efficient by eating when she is eating.
So generally, here's what dinner usually looks like. DD tries to use her knife and fork. Eats some food that way. Then mom or dad helps feed her a little more food. Then she eats a little with her spoon. Then she asks if she can please be excused. And if she has eaten enough that we think she won't starve before morning then we let her play in the living area next to us while we finish. We only run into issues when she insists on putting her feet on the table even though we ask her not to. Or other similar tests of will.
One other thing. I'm still trying to understand exactly what AP is. We practiced EC and cosleeping. We try to use positive discipline. ("Hands up" rather than "don't touch that"). We try to minimize opportunities for confrontation. But we do have rules. And we have consequences for breaking rules. And we don't allow the child to run the family. And I am pretty insistent on making sure that DD gets enough sleep since I am convinced that a lot of behavior problems come from overtired children.
Generally, my DD is a joy. I am just trying to make sure I give her the best foundation possible before I have to pass on.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
I really appreciate everyone's thoughtful comments about Family Dinner time. Let me give you a few more specifics and maybe the group can come up with some other ideas for us too.
First of all, we have one major difference that colors a lot of my parenting decisions. I have metastatic breast cancer. This is why I have (and will only have) one child. It also means that I will be incredibly fortunate to still be around when she is as young as 5 or 6 years old. So I feel sometimes like I'm compressing a lot of things into earlier years. I want her to have a strong foundation and to be very independent because she will need that once I go.
Secondly, it is important to our family to learn proper table manners. It is a value that Dad and I share. And with a limited time frame, I'd rather she learn table manners sooner rather than later because if it's left to dad alone after I'm gone, he might revert to the way he learned which seems a lot harsher to me. Dad grew up in a very strict household (they "dressed" for dinner every night). But on the other hand, he has flawless manners. The importance of this has been that he is never uncomfortable in any (and I mean any) social situation. He has dined with royalty without having to stress about which one of the 18 pieces of silverware set in front of him he was supposed to use. It seems like a lot of training for a low likelihood situation, but when you are entrepreneurs (as we are), this is a nice skill to have in your toolkit. You never know whom you might meet and what they might be able to do for you. Admittedly, we might wait a little longer for this, but the fact is our DD has extraordinary table manners for her age, so I'd like to not backslide. And she DOES like it when we let her use a knife and fork just like mommy and daddy.
Thirdly, she is an incredibly active child with a very high metabolism. So in order to keep her blood sugar level she has to have a LOT of food. We give her snacks throughout the day, but for her eating isn't really a 5 minute affair. She needs at least 20 minutes to chew all of the food she needs to eat. (It was easier when I could give her baby food since it's a little denser calorie wise and more efficient to eat). So some of my need is trying to make dinnertime more efficient by eating when she is eating.
So generally, here's what dinner usually looks like. DD tries to use her knife and fork. Eats some food that way. Then mom or dad helps feed her a little more food. Then she eats a little with her spoon. Then she asks if she can please be excused. And if she has eaten enough that we think she won't starve before morning then we let her play in the living area next to us while we finish. We only run into issues when she insists on putting her feet on the table even though we ask her not to. Or other similar tests of will.
One other thing. I'm still trying to understand exactly what AP is. We practiced EC and cosleeping. We try to use positive discipline. ("Hands up" rather than "don't touch that"). We try to minimize opportunities for confrontation. But we do have rules. And we have consequences for breaking rules. And we don't allow the child to run the family. And I am pretty insistent on making sure that DD gets enough sleep since I am convinced that a lot of behavior problems come from overtired children.
Generally, my DD is a joy. I am just trying to make sure I give her the best foundation possible before I have to pass on.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "mmbz100" <the.nh.attic@> wrote:
> >our child is an only child ... and so I worry about her always eating alone
> ***********
>
> Think about the idea of "eating alone" for a second - is your dd *really* alone when she'd eating? Shut away somewhere or abandoned to her own devices? Probably not. And even if you're using the five minutes it takes a young child to eat to attend your own needs, are you doing other things with her for most of the day?
>
> A "family meal" makes good sense when the family is all separated during the day. If your husband works out of the home, it may feel good to him and you to have a meal together to reconnect. If he's wanting to connect with his dd, too, then look for ways for him to spend a little time with her, too - sit and watch a show together, or play a game, or read a story, or help her take a bath. Lots of ways for dad and dd to connect - it doesn't Have to be dinner.
>
> >>Maybe I don't need to worry about family dinner until she's a little older and then go from there.
> **********
>
> Don't worry at all! Make dinner time something pleasant that your dd will eventually want to join. That may not be for a few years, and it may not be consistent, but if she sees you and dad having dinner together and enjoying one another's company, she'll understand what etaing together is "for": sociability. She may come sit at the table but not want to eat, or eat a cookie or bowl of cereal - that's much like running into some friends who are going out to eat and joining them for drinks, or dessert, or just sitting at the restaurant together chit-chatting.
>
> Alternately, you could bring dinner to her - eat where she likes to play, either at a small table or lay out a tablecloth picnic style on the floor.
>
> ---Meredith
>
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
First I want to say that I am really sorry. Really very sorry
Lets for a minute suppose ( and I really hope that is not going to be how it
will all go)that you are really not going to be here
when your daughter is 5-6.
Let me rephrase this:
I hope that if I was not here with my kids when they were that young that they
would remember me
as being the sweetest, funnest mommy in the world. The mommy who ate chocolate
and crackers in the bed watching a favorite movie.
The mother who stayed awake playing Barbies, or pretend, whatever, until 2 AM
and slept with them until they woke up late the next day.
The mother who played in the mud puddles with them in their best Sunday clothes.
The mother who did not have silly rules about using the right fork.
I would want to be remembered as being the mom who loved me more than anything,
more than knowing which fork to use for fish.
All these things you are so worried that your child "needs" to learn now or you
won't be around to teach her are NOT important.
All these they can learn later in life.
I rather they learn how much I love them and cared about their feelings and
needs more than
about little rules that children are not even ready to learn at that young
age.
Be there with your child, set up a picnic blanket in the middle of the family
room and eat there with her.
WHO cares if she is using the right fork at the table or not chewing with their
mouths closed.
All you need to do to make your child's life better for when you no longer can
be there is to make
sure that your child knows how much you loved and how important they are and
what a great friend and partner their mother was.
Your love and *acceptance* will carry on with her.
It will not be dinner and bed time rules I guarantee.
Here are so great links to read ( or listen):
http://sandradodd.com/rules
http://sandradodd.com/priorities
http://sandradodd.com/principles/
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
Don;t waste time with trying to mold your child. Be with her lovingly.
Make her life happy and sweet. Create the memories to carry her on in her life.
It won't be her dinner time manners that will do that.
Wishing you all the best,
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lets for a minute suppose ( and I really hope that is not going to be how it
will all go)that you are really not going to be here
when your daughter is 5-6.
Let me rephrase this:
I hope that if I was not here with my kids when they were that young that they
would remember me
as being the sweetest, funnest mommy in the world. The mommy who ate chocolate
and crackers in the bed watching a favorite movie.
The mother who stayed awake playing Barbies, or pretend, whatever, until 2 AM
and slept with them until they woke up late the next day.
The mother who played in the mud puddles with them in their best Sunday clothes.
The mother who did not have silly rules about using the right fork.
I would want to be remembered as being the mom who loved me more than anything,
more than knowing which fork to use for fish.
All these things you are so worried that your child "needs" to learn now or you
won't be around to teach her are NOT important.
All these they can learn later in life.
I rather they learn how much I love them and cared about their feelings and
needs more than
about little rules that children are not even ready to learn at that young
age.
Be there with your child, set up a picnic blanket in the middle of the family
room and eat there with her.
WHO cares if she is using the right fork at the table or not chewing with their
mouths closed.
All you need to do to make your child's life better for when you no longer can
be there is to make
sure that your child knows how much you loved and how important they are and
what a great friend and partner their mother was.
Your love and *acceptance* will carry on with her.
It will not be dinner and bed time rules I guarantee.
Here are so great links to read ( or listen):
http://sandradodd.com/rules
http://sandradodd.com/priorities
http://sandradodd.com/principles/
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
Don;t waste time with trying to mold your child. Be with her lovingly.
Make her life happy and sweet. Create the memories to carry her on in her life.
It won't be her dinner time manners that will do that.
Wishing you all the best,
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JJ
> Don;t waste time with trying to mold your child. Be with her lovingly.*************
> Make her life happy and sweet. Create the memories to carry her on in her life.
> It won't be her dinner time manners that will do that.
>
> Wishing you all the best
It might be worth figuring out for yourself: if toddler table manners really are more of a concern than the above, why explore unschooling basics? What is it you're looking for? A way to unschooling for your husband, maybe? But that will take a lot of changes from this:
"But we do have rules. And we have consequences for breaking
rules. And we don't allow the child to run the family. And I am pretty insistent on making sure that DD gets enough sleep since I am convinced that a lot of behavior problems come from overtired children."
otherstar
From: mmbz100
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Family Dinner (was: dealing with my own anger)
What is it that you are trying to get out of unschooling? Most unschooling lists that I have been on advocate moving beyond rules and consequences. Perhaps you need to find a different list to help you with ways to build a foundation that is more in line with what you want. The AP lists might be a better place to start.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Family Dinner (was: dealing with my own anger)
>>>First of all, we have one major difference that colors a lot of my parenting decisions. I have metastatic breast cancer. This is why I have (and will only have) one child. It also means that I will be incredibly fortunate to still be around when she is as young as 5 or 6 years old. So I feel sometimes like I'm compressing a lot of things into earlier years. I want her to have a strong foundation and to be very independent because she will need that once I go.<<<I am sorry to hear this. How old is your daughter now? I can't remember if you were the one with the three year old or if that was someone else.
>>>Thirdly, she is an incredibly active child with a very high metabolism. So in order to keep her blood sugar level she has to have a LOT of food. We give her snacks throughout the day, but for her eating isn't really a 5 minute affair. She needs at least 20 minutes to chew all of the food she needs to eat. (It was easier when I could give her baby food since it's a little denser calorie wise and more efficient to eat). So some of my need is trying to make dinnertime more efficient by eating when she is eating.<<<Why does she have to eat everything that she is going to eat for the evening at dinner time? We have dinner and then we usually have a snack before bed. My girls can't sleep unless there tummies are topped off.
>>> We only run into issues when she insists on putting her feet on the table even though we ask her not to. Or other similar tests of will.<<<Little kids do stuff like that for a host of reasons. Mainstream parents may say it is a test of wills. Unschooling, as I understand it, sees it as a kid exploring their environment.
>>>One other thing. I'm still trying to understand exactly what AP is. We practiced EC and cosleeping. We try to use positive discipline. ("Hands up" rather than "don't touch that"). We try to minimize opportunities for confrontation. But we do have rules. And we have consequences for breaking rules. And we don't allow the child to run the family. And I am pretty insistent on making sure that DD gets enough sleep since I am convinced that a lot of behavior problems come from overtired children.<<<There are a lot of websites that explore the foundations of Attachment Parenting. You can do a google search and get some great stuff.
What is it that you are trying to get out of unschooling? Most unschooling lists that I have been on advocate moving beyond rules and consequences. Perhaps you need to find a different list to help you with ways to build a foundation that is more in line with what you want. The AP lists might be a better place to start.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Monica Van Stelton
JJ, that was hilarious!!!! hahahahaha....the point I guess is to loosen up a bit!
--- On Wed, 9/15/10, JJ <jrossedd@...> wrote:
From: JJ <jrossedd@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: dealing with my own anger
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 6:33 AM
This in turns reminds ME of my own kitchen mess last evening. We're experimenting with a small plastic bottle of cold diet coke each morning for 15-year-old Young Son (he thinks caffeine might help his brain wake up but hates all strong tastes so doesn't drink coffee with the rest of us.)
So I keep a few little bottles cold in the fridge and as I tried to cut them apart from that heavy plastic frame connecting them, I punctured one, spraying the whole wood floor and several cabinet doors like a Mento experiment. I was alone and very surprised but I laughed out loud at myself, not even irritated. My first thought was that it looked like the blood spatter patterns on crime shows and as I cleaned it, I pretended I was a detective reconstructed what had happened. I am 55 years old but treat messes like a kid. I didn't learn that kind of happy equanimity from my own parents. I learned it from my children! :)
>
> You just reminded me of yesterday's "experiment."
>
> Our 4-year-old nephew is just thrilled at being able to aim his pee. Not in the potty, of course. :) But there are many fun things that can be accomplished with his new talent. And the puddles! Wow!
>
> >
> >
> > 1) A mental shift in your expectations and how you view your child.
> >
> > A small child sees the world differently. A knocked over glass isn't a
> > mess, it's an experiment in gravity. It's a big reaction to a small
> > action. It's a shiny colorful puddle that may leave a ghost of itself
> > behind.
> >
> >
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Monica Van Stelton
Thank you Joyce!
You are very nice. You should write a book called Joyceful Parenting. It seems you know what you are talking about. What you say here it makes sense. I will try to do that.
1) Mental shift: I agree...He is so mature for his age and so intelligent that sometimes I may expect more of him in certain situations that I should. Like stopping doing something that is bothering me, like the pulling off the shade, or not touching something that I don't want him to touch...(I know it sounds controlling...ay). I guess I don't want the computer mouse to brake it cost 50 dollars to get another one and the shade it is a pain to put it back together...So doing some mental shifting and #2 should help!
2) I did change the environment so there would be less no's and more do what you need. But once I have a system figured out he grows and I have to re plan it! So I just have to speed up a bit and loosen up.
Thank you!
Monica
You are very nice. You should write a book called Joyceful Parenting. It seems you know what you are talking about. What you say here it makes sense. I will try to do that.
1) Mental shift: I agree...He is so mature for his age and so intelligent that sometimes I may expect more of him in certain situations that I should. Like stopping doing something that is bothering me, like the pulling off the shade, or not touching something that I don't want him to touch...(I know it sounds controlling...ay). I guess I don't want the computer mouse to brake it cost 50 dollars to get another one and the shade it is a pain to put it back together...So doing some mental shifting and #2 should help!
2) I did change the environment so there would be less no's and more do what you need. But once I have a system figured out he grows and I have to re plan it! So I just have to speed up a bit and loosen up.
Thank you!
Monica
--- On Wed, 9/15/10, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] dealing with my own anger
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 3:43 AM
On Sep 14, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Monica Van Stelton wrote:
> I want to be a perfect mom...I pray for more patience....
Perfection is unattainable. Making a better choice this time is doable.
Patience can be like paint over rotten wood. More patience is just a
heavier coat of paint. What you need is new wood beneath.
Three things will help replace the rotten wood:
1) A mental shift in your expectations and how you view your child.
A small child sees the world differently. A knocked over glass isn't a
mess, it's an experiment in gravity. It's a big reaction to a small
action. It's a shiny colorful puddle that may leave a ghost of itself
behind.
Get into their world and see the world through their eyes and their
needs. What's it like being so small and helpless that you must rely
on the indulgence of others for even the simplest things like a glass
of water or going to the bathroom.
Pretty much the main cause of anger, frustration, lashing out is a
desire to control what can't be controlled. It's not healthy to shove
down the need and pretend it isn't there. What you need are techniques
to let go of the need to control -- like above, but others might have
more if you give specific examples --, let go of the expectations that
a situation will run a particular way or people will act as you expect
or want them to.
2) Change the environment rather than focusing on what you can't
change: your child.
See the child's actions as communication rather than pushing buttons.
They may be trying to meet a need, let you know that they have a need,
or are frustrated a need isn't being met.
Change the environment. The fewer things there are to say no to, the
more peaceful the home and you and your child.
If a child keeps doing something that bothers you, see it as a need
and either find a way they can do it safely and respectfully or
something else they can do instead. If a child is writing on the
walls, rather than focus on what they can't do, focus on what they can
do instead. Do let them know the wall is a no, but redirect them to
what they can do. They aren't being bad, they just have needs they
can't figure out how to meet. Put up longs sheets of butcher paper.
Find places where they can write on the walls. Put up some wall board.
Make sure there are lots of places and things to draw on.
3) Be aware of the build up inside you. Get to yourself before you
reach the yelling stage. Do something else.
If you do 1 and 2 there should be fewer and fewer 3s. But when they do
occur, give your child a hug and think of a specific thing you really
love about them. Or change the environment. Distract both of you with
something different. Make some change to get you off the path.
> I read a book that says that children often push your buttons to get
> you into the ring.
Even if that's occasionally true, that view of children is more likely
to steer a mother away from her child -- to remove the buttons from
reach -- rather than toward -- helping him meet a need. (Though I'm
glad it helped you think to remove the shade on the stroller.)
Don't see it as pushing buttons. See it as communication. They don't
yet know how to tell you what they need. They may not even know what
they need. The solution isn't to pull the buttons out of reach but to
move in closer and help the child get what they need.
If a child is, day after day, "pushing buttons" my first guess would
be they need more attention. Don't wait for them to ask (by annoying
you). Give them an abundance of attention. Some kids need more
touching and direct interaction than an adult may guess. Children
*are* inconvenient. It helps to let go of the idea of making them more
convenient. But we can help them be more joyful by tuning into their
(inexpert) communication and either fixing what's irritating them or
getting them away from it.
If the pushing buttons is a right now thing, go through the most
likely things: hungry, tired, antsy and help them move towards joy
rather than adding to the irritation.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]