speech therapy
crystal rid
One more question? I have a daughter that requires speech therapy. Her language skills are about that of a 3 year old and she is 7. She very much does not like going to speech and often complains or begs not to go. Without even considering unschooling making her go goes against everything I believe in. I wish I could let her quit but she needs it. Does anyone have a child that requires any type of therapy? How do you work it in with unschooling? So far I have been telling her things like I wish she didn t have to go but she needs it to learn to talk. It worked before but now that she talks in a way others can understand she feels like its a waste of time because she already knows how to talk. And she s right except that her language skills are way below where they should be.
Joyce Fetteroll
On May 11, 2010, at 10:13 PM, crystal rid wrote:
needs? Is she perfectly fine with the way she talks right now?
now need are you trying to meet?
make their job easier? If she doesn't have a teacher and the people
she wants to communicate with can understand her, then what purpose is
it serving?
When her needs change and she wants to talk to other people, if her
speech hasn't improved on its own, then she may decide she wants
therapy. Then it will be much easier for her because it will be for
something she wants, serving her purposes not some mysterious unseen
power that's making you make her go. And you can let her know that
you'll find a place she likes -- if there are other options --
whenever she decides she's ready.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> And she s right except that her language skills are way below whereShould be for what purpose? Do her language skills suit her right now
> they should be.
needs? Is she perfectly fine with the way she talks right now?
> So far I have been telling her things like I wish she didn t have toBut she does talk, right? So what is it you really mean? What right
> go but she needs it to learn to talk.
now need are you trying to meet?
> I wish I could let her quit but she needs itFor what purpose? Is it for her or for the convenience of teachers to
make their job easier? If she doesn't have a teacher and the people
she wants to communicate with can understand her, then what purpose is
it serving?
When her needs change and she wants to talk to other people, if her
speech hasn't improved on its own, then she may decide she wants
therapy. Then it will be much easier for her because it will be for
something she wants, serving her purposes not some mysterious unseen
power that's making you make her go. And you can let her know that
you'll find a place she likes -- if there are other options --
whenever she decides she's ready.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crystal rid
Those are some good points. Even her great grandma can understand her now whereas six months ago she couldn t. The thin I m most worried about is that my mom works with mentally challenged people some of whining never had speech and some had a little. A lot o them are very hard to understand and would still benefit from speech therapy. Yes, theyvare mentally challenged, no my daughter isn t although she does have some issues . I think she s perfect, just the way God made her. She s been getting speecqh services since she was 2. First because no one could understand her and now because?she doesn t talk on a 7 yr old level. Everyone she spends tike with now understands her 99% of he time. She is also receiving some other services that she enjoys that she could loose out on I I took her out of speech because she go into them because she was in speech.
On Wed May 12th, 2010 6:22 AM CDT Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
>
>On May 11, 2010, at 10:13 PM, crystal rid wrote:
>
>> And she s right except that her language skills are way below where
>> they should be.
>
>Should be for what purpose? Do her language skills suit her right now
>needs? Is she perfectly fine with the way she talks right now?
>
>> So far I have been telling her things like I wish she didn t have to
>> go but she needs it to learn to talk.
>
>
>But she does talk, right? So what is it you really mean? What right
>now need are you trying to meet?
>
>> I wish I could let her quit but she needs it
>
>For what purpose? Is it for her or for the convenience of teachers to
>make their job easier? If she doesn't have a teacher and the people
>she wants to communicate with can understand her, then what purpose is
>it serving?
>
>When her needs change and she wants to talk to other people, if her
>speech hasn't improved on its own, then she may decide she wants
>therapy. Then it will be much easier for her because it will be for
>something she wants, serving her purposes not some mysterious unseen
>power that's making you make her go. And you can let her know that
>you'll find a place she likes -- if there are other options --
>whenever she decides she's ready.
>
>Joyce
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
David
There are several words that you are using to describe this situation that could be hindering your ability to see all of your daughter's options :) If you believe that she "requires" and "needs" therapy, that her skills are "below where they should be", then these are thoughts that focus your energy in only one direction- therapy.
The most important thing to consider is the fact that your daughter doesn't want to go to therapy and doesn't see any benefit in attending right now. Right now is not forever and if she doesn't want to be there, is she really going to make any progress? Another thing to consider is her relationship with the therapist. Even if her therapist is kind, the sessions, by their very nature, are set up with one person (therapist) knowing the "right way" to do something and the other person (your daughter) not knowing and needing to be "fixed".
My two younger sons both would be considered candidates for speech therapy, according to the developmental charts measuring such things. Neither of them has any interest at all in receiving assistance right now, though they have both attended speech therapy in the past. Arthur, our 9yo, is pretty introspective and isn't driven to talk with too many people outside of his family. In his case, therapy was not offering anything he wanted or needed so we stopped taking him. He communicates well, in his own way, to have his needs met. Our 7yo, Ethan, didn't enjoy therapy at all and asked to stop. He has made huge leaps in his ability to speak and be understood over the past year or so because he wants to be understood! It's important to him to be able to talk to the people he meets and he will often repeat words and phrases in an effort to speak clearly. As time goes on, I am needed less and less to "translate" for him because he is honing his skills on his own, in his own time. There is no worry about where he "should" be. He IS where he should be, for him :)
My recommendation would be to put those reports that rate your daughter's abilities in a drawer and just give her some time and space. Watch and listen to her talking, talk with her about the things that she loves without correcting any "mistakes" she might make while speaking. If she becomes frustrated later, there are many options available to her from professional therapy to books and games that you can work on at home.
Good Luck!
Heather
The most important thing to consider is the fact that your daughter doesn't want to go to therapy and doesn't see any benefit in attending right now. Right now is not forever and if she doesn't want to be there, is she really going to make any progress? Another thing to consider is her relationship with the therapist. Even if her therapist is kind, the sessions, by their very nature, are set up with one person (therapist) knowing the "right way" to do something and the other person (your daughter) not knowing and needing to be "fixed".
My two younger sons both would be considered candidates for speech therapy, according to the developmental charts measuring such things. Neither of them has any interest at all in receiving assistance right now, though they have both attended speech therapy in the past. Arthur, our 9yo, is pretty introspective and isn't driven to talk with too many people outside of his family. In his case, therapy was not offering anything he wanted or needed so we stopped taking him. He communicates well, in his own way, to have his needs met. Our 7yo, Ethan, didn't enjoy therapy at all and asked to stop. He has made huge leaps in his ability to speak and be understood over the past year or so because he wants to be understood! It's important to him to be able to talk to the people he meets and he will often repeat words and phrases in an effort to speak clearly. As time goes on, I am needed less and less to "translate" for him because he is honing his skills on his own, in his own time. There is no worry about where he "should" be. He IS where he should be, for him :)
My recommendation would be to put those reports that rate your daughter's abilities in a drawer and just give her some time and space. Watch and listen to her talking, talk with her about the things that she loves without correcting any "mistakes" she might make while speaking. If she becomes frustrated later, there are many options available to her from professional therapy to books and games that you can work on at home.
Good Luck!
Heather
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
That doesn't mean it will always be too much work, but speech therapy is a mixed bag on a good day. Some speech therapists will come right out and say its of limited utility - its a good example of teaching not being the best way to learn. Kids with speech difficulties generally "progress" at a pretty similare rate whether in therapy or not.
So step back a little and take a deep breath! Not all kids are totally verbal. I have an 8yo who's not very verbal at all - its kind of surprising to me to be around her age-peers sometimes and realize just how quiet she it. She's very expressive, creative and curious about her world, but language isn't her favorite tool. That's one kind of normal ;)
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>Everyone she spends tike with now understands her 99% of he time.That's really the point of speech, isn't it - to be understood? If she was having trouble being understood by people around her and frustrated with that, but still not wanting speech therapy, it would be worth looking into other communication methods, like sign language or the system someone recommended to Karen (sounds neat!) in her thread on bribery. But if she's comfortable with the degree to which she is being understood then its really logical for her to not be interested in "more". As far as she's concerned, "more" is too much work for nothing.
That doesn't mean it will always be too much work, but speech therapy is a mixed bag on a good day. Some speech therapists will come right out and say its of limited utility - its a good example of teaching not being the best way to learn. Kids with speech difficulties generally "progress" at a pretty similare rate whether in therapy or not.
So step back a little and take a deep breath! Not all kids are totally verbal. I have an 8yo who's not very verbal at all - its kind of surprising to me to be around her age-peers sometimes and realize just how quiet she it. She's very expressive, creative and curious about her world, but language isn't her favorite tool. That's one kind of normal ;)
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Joyce Fetteroll
On May 12, 2010, at 9:30 AM, crystal rid wrote:
difficult to understand because they're difficult to understand?
Or is it just fear that you're trying to soothe?
Is soothing your fear worth the whittling it's doing to your
relationship with your daughter? Is it worth the feeling of
helplessness and the thoughts that you care more about what you want
for her than you do her?
(I'm not saying that because that's what *I* think you're doing. I'm
suggesting that's what your daughter probably feels. If your husband
kept making you do something he wanted for you but you didn't like,
would it feel like love? Would the stronger you protested and the
stronger he insisted, feel like even greater love?)
you give her the option and point out the other activities would go
with the therapy, would she choose to stick with the therapy.
Lots of parents think their kids enjoy school because they seem happy.
But what choice do they have? No matter how much they protest they
know their parents will make them go. Finding something they like in
what they hate is a coping mechanism to find a way to enjoy what you
have. That's not the same as choosing something out of a wide variety
of options. If the only chocolate I could get was cheap waxy
chocolate, I might eat it and might even enjoy it as being better than
no chocolate, but it's not the same as enjoying cheap waxy chocolate
in a world fully of chocolate choices.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The thin I m most worried about is that my mom works with mentallyDo you have any rational reason to believe your daughter will be
> challenged people some of whining never had speech and some had a
> little. A lot o them are very hard to understand and would still
> benefit from speech therapy. Yes, theyvare mentally challenged, no
> my daughter isn t although she does have some issues
difficult to understand because they're difficult to understand?
Or is it just fear that you're trying to soothe?
Is soothing your fear worth the whittling it's doing to your
relationship with your daughter? Is it worth the feeling of
helplessness and the thoughts that you care more about what you want
for her than you do her?
(I'm not saying that because that's what *I* think you're doing. I'm
suggesting that's what your daughter probably feels. If your husband
kept making you do something he wanted for you but you didn't like,
would it feel like love? Would the stronger you protested and the
stronger he insisted, feel like even greater love?)
> She is also receiving some other services that she enjoys that sheDoes *she* think they're worth putting up with speech therapy for? If
> could loose out on I I took her out of speech because she go into
> them because she was in speech.
you give her the option and point out the other activities would go
with the therapy, would she choose to stick with the therapy.
Lots of parents think their kids enjoy school because they seem happy.
But what choice do they have? No matter how much they protest they
know their parents will make them go. Finding something they like in
what they hate is a coping mechanism to find a way to enjoy what you
have. That's not the same as choosing something out of a wide variety
of options. If the only chocolate I could get was cheap waxy
chocolate, I might eat it and might even enjoy it as being better than
no chocolate, but it's not the same as enjoying cheap waxy chocolate
in a world fully of chocolate choices.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crystal rid
Part of it is fear on my part. Its also the though process that all the experts say if helped at a young enough age they can overcome some things they can t at an older age. I have no idea how her speech will turn out whether she stays in speech or not but yes I know she enjoys the other activities because she begs to go and gets upset if they are cancelled for some reason. But maybe the next time she resists speech I will explain that if she doesn t go tobspeech they wont let he go to the other activities and see what she prefers.
Crystal
Crystal
crystal rid
For the most part I dont pay the updates on her language skills any attention. I take note of how she s progressed on paper and then forget about them. I dont work on speech with her at home, I dont correct her. I fours she gets more then enough correcting during speech. I see your point about he therapist having all the power and how the entire nature of speech is set up to point out exactly how my daughter is saying things wrong. In all honestly that alone makes me want to pull her out. But then I remember the other services she very much enjoys and would loose out on if I do take her out. And it all leaves me confused. I dont want her to. Eel helpless or unloved or belittled because she is in speech but I dont want her to have to give up something she loves either.
On Wed May 12th, 2010 10:05 AM CDT David wrote:
>There are several words that you are using to describe this situation that could be hindering your ability to see all of your daughter's options :) If you believe that she "requires" and "needs" therapy, that her skills are "below where they should be", then these are thoughts that focus your energy in only one direction- therapy.
>
>The most important thing to consider is the fact that your daughter doesn't want to go to therapy and doesn't see any benefit in attending right now. Right now is not forever and if she doesn't want to be there, is she really going to make any progress? Another thing to consider is her relationship with the therapist. Even if her therapist is kind, the sessions, by their very nature, are set up with one person (therapist) knowing the "right way" to do something and the other person (your daughter) not knowing and needing to be "fixed".
>
>My two younger sons both would be considered candidates for speech therapy, according to the developmental charts measuring such things. Neither of them has any interest at all in receiving assistance right now, though they have both attended speech therapy in the past. Arthur, our 9yo, is pretty introspective and isn't driven to talk with too many people outside of his family. In his case, therapy was not offering anything he wanted or needed so we stopped taking him. He communicates well, in his own way, to have his needs met. Our 7yo, Ethan, didn't enjoy therapy at all and asked to stop. He has made huge leaps in his ability to speak and be understood over the past year or so because he wants to be understood! It's important to him to be able to talk to the people he meets and he will often repeat words and phrases in an effort to speak clearly. As time goes on, I am needed less and less to "translate" for him because he is honing his skills on
his own, in his own time. There is no worry about where he "should" be. He IS where he should be, for him :)
>
>My recommendation would be to put those reports that rate your daughter's abilities in a drawer and just give her some time and space. Watch and listen to her talking, talk with her about the things that she loves without correcting any "mistakes" she might make while speaking. If she becomes frustrated later, there are many options available to her from professional therapy to books and games that you can work on at home.
>
>Good Luck!
>Heather
>
>
>
NCMama
--- In [email protected], crystal rid <cryway2@...> But then I remember the other services she very much enjoys and would loose out on if I do take her out. And it all leaves me confused.
Someone asked earlier- what are these other services & activities? There may be similar things we could suggest, or if you called around, you may find another way for her to do these things. As Joyce said, ask her if it's worth going to speech therapy to continue these. And, actually, if she said yes, I might see if there was a suitable substitution for her, anyway - her choice, of course.
Caren
Someone asked earlier- what are these other services & activities? There may be similar things we could suggest, or if you called around, you may find another way for her to do these things. As Joyce said, ask her if it's worth going to speech therapy to continue these. And, actually, if she said yes, I might see if there was a suitable substitution for her, anyway - her choice, of course.
Caren
crystal rid
There is an equine therapy program here that allows her to ride horse (her absolute most favorite things in the world) that a child must be receiving some form of therapy to qualify for. She could just take horseback riding lessons but they run 25.00+an hour and I can t afford them. So for us horse riding requires speeches or some other kind of therapy. We could possibly stop speech for a while IF she could get into some other form of therapy then she would still qualify for the equine therapy.
On Thu May 13th, 2010 5:39 AM CDT NCMama wrote:
>
>--- In [email protected], crystal rid <cryway2@...> But then I remember the other services she very much enjoys and would loose out on if I do take her out. And it all leaves me confused.
>
>Someone asked earlier- what are these other services & activities? There may be similar things we could suggest, or if you called around, you may find another way for her to do these things. As Joyce said, ask her if it's worth going to speech therapy to continue these. And, actually, if she said yes, I might see if there was a suitable substitution for her, anyway - her choice, of course.
>
>Caren
>
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On May 13, 2010, at 8:29 AM, crystal rid wrote:
Little annoyances are *much* more irritating when we're forced to put
up with them. When we choose to put up with the irritations to get
something else that goes along with it, the irritations are easier to
bear. But she can't choose to put up with them while you're choosing
to make her.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> We could possibly stop speech for a while IF she could get intoYou're saying we. But what are *her* thoughts? What does she want to do?
> some other form of therapy then she would still qualify for the
> equine therapy.
Little annoyances are *much* more irritating when we're forced to put
up with them. When we choose to put up with the irritations to get
something else that goes along with it, the irritations are easier to
bear. But she can't choose to put up with them while you're choosing
to make her.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crystal rid
Being as how she begs to ride horses I am assuming she will chose the option that allows her to continue. However I plan on asking her just so I will know.
Crystal
Crystal
On Thu May 13th, 2010 7:38 AM CDT Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
>
>On May 13, 2010, at 8:29 AM, crystal rid wrote:
>
>> We could possibly stop speech for a while IF she could get into
>> some other form of therapy then she would still qualify for the
>> equine therapy.
>
>You're saying we. But what are *her* thoughts? What does she want to do?
>
>Little annoyances are *much* more irritating when we're forced to put
>up with them. When we choose to put up with the irritations to get
>something else that goes along with it, the irritations are easier to
>bear. But she can't choose to put up with them while you're choosing
>to make her.
>
>Joyce
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Nicole Willoughby
There is an equine therapy program here that allows her to ride horse
(her absolute most favorite things in the world) that a child must be
receiving some form of therapy to qualify for. She could just take horseback riding lessons but they run 25.00+an hour and I can t afford them>>>>
If horse riding sessions mean enough to her to keep going to speech why not propse to her why its beneficial to keep going to speech but cut her time down?
My son is almost completely nonverbal so I often have to guess how he is feeling and what he wants. He wasn't having great speech sessions and seemed to love going to school but got increasingly aggitated as the day went on.
So I talked with his speech teacher and explained to her that 30 minute sessions were to long for Nate and that I wanted him to end the session on a good note even if he only stayed 5 minutes. She has become a fabulous partner and is great at watching for the first sign that he is ready to be done. They do their little end routine which signals to him that his wishes are respected and he can be done working when he is done...this is usually 15 minutes but stretches the full session sometimes . Ive seen more progress than I did when she was trying to make him stay the full 30 minutes because that's what his ard said.
Nicole
"I've seen the village, and I don't want it raising my child." - LC
(her absolute most favorite things in the world) that a child must be
receiving some form of therapy to qualify for. She could just take horseback riding lessons but they run 25.00+an hour and I can t afford them>>>>
If horse riding sessions mean enough to her to keep going to speech why not propse to her why its beneficial to keep going to speech but cut her time down?
My son is almost completely nonverbal so I often have to guess how he is feeling and what he wants. He wasn't having great speech sessions and seemed to love going to school but got increasingly aggitated as the day went on.
So I talked with his speech teacher and explained to her that 30 minute sessions were to long for Nate and that I wanted him to end the session on a good note even if he only stayed 5 minutes. She has become a fabulous partner and is great at watching for the first sign that he is ready to be done. They do their little end routine which signals to him that his wishes are respected and he can be done working when he is done...this is usually 15 minutes but stretches the full session sometimes . Ive seen more progress than I did when she was trying to make him stay the full 30 minutes because that's what his ard said.
Nicole
"I've seen the village, and I don't want it raising my child." - LC
--- On Thu, 5/13/10, crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
From: crystal rid <cryway2@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: speech therapy
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, May 13, 2010, 7:29 AM
There is an equine therapy program here that allows her to ride horse (her absolute most favorite things in the world) that a child must be receiving some form of therapy to qualify for. She could just take horseback riding lessons but they run 25.00+an hour and I can t afford them. So for us horse riding requires speeches or some other kind of therapy. We could possibly stop speech for a while IF she could get into some other form of therapy then she would still qualify for the equine therapy.
On Thu May 13th, 2010 5:39 AM CDT NCMama wrote:
>
>--- In [email protected], crystal rid <cryway2@...> But then I remember the other services she very much enjoys and would loose out on if I do take her out. And it all leaves me confused.
>
>Someone asked earlier- what are these other services & activities? There may be similar things we could suggest, or if you called around, you may find another way for her to do these things. As Joyce said, ask her if it's worth going to speech therapy to continue these. And, actually, if she said yes, I might see if there was a suitable substitution for her, anyway - her choice, of course.
>
>Caren
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
Its a good idea to start looking for other ways for her to ride horses, if that's a love of hers, so that you have more options. In general, the further you look out into rural areas the more likely you'll be to find less expensive options in that regard - not so much stables, but individuals with a horse or two, maybe even a pony or donkey they let kids ride. A good way to find out about those is by going to farmers markets or joining a CSA. Also ask on local homeschool lists!
---Meredith
>*****************
> Being as how she begs to ride horses I am assuming she will chose the option that allows her to continue.
Its a good idea to start looking for other ways for her to ride horses, if that's a love of hers, so that you have more options. In general, the further you look out into rural areas the more likely you'll be to find less expensive options in that regard - not so much stables, but individuals with a horse or two, maybe even a pony or donkey they let kids ride. A good way to find out about those is by going to farmers markets or joining a CSA. Also ask on local homeschool lists!
---Meredith
crystal rid
25.00 per hour does seem to be the low rate around here. I have been quoted prices much higher then that. There are lots of horse rancches in our area as well as individuals with horses but I just haven t found an affordable option. I m still looking but so far nothing.
On Thu May 13th, 2010 6:06 PM CDT plaidpanties666 wrote:
>--- In [email protected], crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
>>
>> Being as how she begs to ride horses I am assuming she will chose the option that allows her to continue.
>*****************
>
>Its a good idea to start looking for other ways for her to ride horses, if that's a love of hers, so that you have more options. In general, the further you look out into rural areas the more likely you'll be to find less expensive options in that regard - not so much stables, but individuals with a horse or two, maybe even a pony or donkey they let kids ride. A good way to find out about those is by going to farmers markets or joining a CSA. Also ask on local homeschool lists!
>
>---Meredith
>
plaidpanties666
crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
Its an unnerving sort of arguement, for sure, but its worth thinking about the... hmm, "sample space" if you like, of "experts" and that's kids in school. In school kids who "get behind" tend to stay "bahind". That has a lot more to do with the nature of institutionalized education than actual developmental potential. Add into that the fact that a certain percentage of kids who are "behind" come to school from less-than-stellar circumstances - those kids, especially, need the help of people outside their families as soon as possible. That's one of the potential benefits of school - its a way for kids to get help they can't get at home.
All that means those "experts" don't have a reference point for healthy children in healthy homeschooling families - its so far off their radar they don't know, any better than parents, what to expect. They *aren't* experts on your family or child.
---Meredith
>**************
> Part of it is fear on my part. Its also the though process that all the experts say if helped at a young enough age they can overcome some things they can t at an older age.
Its an unnerving sort of arguement, for sure, but its worth thinking about the... hmm, "sample space" if you like, of "experts" and that's kids in school. In school kids who "get behind" tend to stay "bahind". That has a lot more to do with the nature of institutionalized education than actual developmental potential. Add into that the fact that a certain percentage of kids who are "behind" come to school from less-than-stellar circumstances - those kids, especially, need the help of people outside their families as soon as possible. That's one of the potential benefits of school - its a way for kids to get help they can't get at home.
All that means those "experts" don't have a reference point for healthy children in healthy homeschooling families - its so far off their radar they don't know, any better than parents, what to expect. They *aren't* experts on your family or child.
---Meredith
jameshippisley
Hi Crystal,
I don't know if you have heard of Mary and Steven Camarata. I am wondering if some input from them might be useful for you to determine whether the speech therapy is necessary. They are speech development experts at Vanderbilt University Medical center in Nashville. You can find contact information here: http://www.latetalkers.org/index.php
On various speech development boards people swear by the evaluations and help they have had from them. They helped us (via telephone) to avoid speech therapy with our son in spite of pressure from pediatricians and audiologists.
While they may not say or know this directly, they are kind of unschooling friendly in their outlook. As far as I understand their approach, they believe that much of what a speech therapist does can be done better by a present, caring parent. They think that therapy, if necessary, is most effective if it involves activities which are led by the child.
So I wanted to tell you about them in case they may be able to help with some of your decision making.
James
I don't know if you have heard of Mary and Steven Camarata. I am wondering if some input from them might be useful for you to determine whether the speech therapy is necessary. They are speech development experts at Vanderbilt University Medical center in Nashville. You can find contact information here: http://www.latetalkers.org/index.php
On various speech development boards people swear by the evaluations and help they have had from them. They helped us (via telephone) to avoid speech therapy with our son in spite of pressure from pediatricians and audiologists.
While they may not say or know this directly, they are kind of unschooling friendly in their outlook. As far as I understand their approach, they believe that much of what a speech therapist does can be done better by a present, caring parent. They think that therapy, if necessary, is most effective if it involves activities which are led by the child.
So I wanted to tell you about them in case they may be able to help with some of your decision making.
James
bnforgiven
Thank you for your insight on speech therapy. I never really thought about it that way.
My son is 6 and can't say "L" or "R." My husband has been worried about it for awhile but I have only started having fears. For me it seems he talks too fast because his brain is thinking too fast. He is also an only child most of the time so he is use to talking to himself. In his time alone he speaks in a manner that is not understandable! It is bad enough that I can't understand him alot of times and he gets frustrated (and so do we!!!).
We try to get him to slow down and say his words clearly without leaving letters out. Right now it has gotten so bad it affects his spelling. He is a great reader so I know he will sort the spelling out one day. In fact his speech drastically improved when he was learning to read, by doing phonics. But now he is past that phase and I don't know what step to take next :)
I am optimistic that he will figure it out but it does get scary and I wonder all the time if I should intervene more, or take him to therapy.
My son is 6 and can't say "L" or "R." My husband has been worried about it for awhile but I have only started having fears. For me it seems he talks too fast because his brain is thinking too fast. He is also an only child most of the time so he is use to talking to himself. In his time alone he speaks in a manner that is not understandable! It is bad enough that I can't understand him alot of times and he gets frustrated (and so do we!!!).
We try to get him to slow down and say his words clearly without leaving letters out. Right now it has gotten so bad it affects his spelling. He is a great reader so I know he will sort the spelling out one day. In fact his speech drastically improved when he was learning to read, by doing phonics. But now he is past that phase and I don't know what step to take next :)
I am optimistic that he will figure it out but it does get scary and I wonder all the time if I should intervene more, or take him to therapy.
jameshippisley
I wanted to add to my own post, since I mentioned a resource that had helped us, but didn't get around to adding my own thoughts. My own opinion is that the single best 'intervention' for a child who's speech is not developing at the same rate as their average peers looks a lot like unschooling. If you're in daycare or school with minimal one on one interaction and minimal opportunity to pursue things that interest you, then just possibly having 1-on-1 time with a speech therapist is an improvement. If there are cases where a 'curriculum' based program of therapy is useful ie working on a specific set of goals directed by the therapist, then I think that a parent or concerned caregiver could work on the same material in a way that was equally or more useful for the child. I don't know if there are such cases, just if there were, why leave the job to somebody else who's less interested in the outcome and doesn't know the child as well? My worry though would be that any kind of directive therapy which stresses a right and wrong way to do things is going to have a negative and potentially long term effect on a child's self esteem. Which may do more harm to the process of speech development and overall personal development than any good it may appear to be doing in the short term. What I think is needed most is freedom to pursue what is really of interest to you, the responsive attention of an involved caregiver, and time to develop speech at a speed that works for the individual - which looks entirely different once you take the need to fit in to the rigid schedule and environment of a school out of the equation.
I hope that you find a way for your daughter to get the horse time she enjoys, I would be wary of unwanted therapy as the price for it though.
James
I hope that you find a way for your daughter to get the horse time she enjoys, I would be wary of unwanted therapy as the price for it though.
James
Joyce Fetteroll
On Aug 10, 2010, at 4:52 PM, bnforgiven wrote:
critique the way you move your hands, your facial expressions, your
word choice.
You're trying to be helpful but it can't feel like that to him. It
will feel like he needs to run a gauntlet to get his thoughts from his
head into the head of someone who insists on focusing on how he's
presenting his message instead of what he's saying. I'm sure you care
about his thought, but your actions say something different and people
respond to the message of our actions, not to our intent.
If he speaks too quickly so you can't understand, it's perfectly okay
to let him know because that's focusing on his message. If he doesn't
know what to do, talk at some other time about some strategies he
might try. (Like a deep breath.) But do your best to try to understand
without interfering with the flow. Focus on his ideas and not the
presentation.
lot so the wrong spelling was familiar -- until she was at least 11,
probably later. For her it was automatic spellcheck that helped the
most.
It probably feels like you're being his automatic speech check, but
the big difference is that spellcheck is *their* tool to use or not
use, pay attention to or ignore. And, unlike a person, writers aren't
trying to communicate with spellcheck ;-)
understandable to teachers and so they won't get teased in school.
Your son isn't in school so you can allow his speech to unfold at the
pace it naturally will.
Right now your focus is on his brokenness and trying to fix him. Look
at his wholeness. He's no more broken than a 6 mo who can't yet walk.
Imagine what it would be like if a parent focused her attention and
concern on the imperfection of her 6 mos walking abilities.
The L and R thing is normal. Most experts have no experience with
speech developing naturally later because kids aren't allowed to. Or
when do attend school with speech difficulties, the kids are in
developing in a critical, teasing environment of school which does
have a negative effect. Same with naturally learning to read. Teachers
are clueless about how kids can learn to read on their own because
they have zero experience. What teachers have to deal with much later
isn't kids who can't naturally read but kids who are damaged by the
pressure to read before they're developmentally ready.
The best next step to take is go to the archives of the list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/messages
and search on "speech therapy"
Gail Higgins (gailbrocop in the archives) is a speech pathologist and
unschooling mom and her responses especially should help ease your
worries.
Joyce
> We try to get him to slow down and say his words clearly withoutImagine trying to get a point across and the people you're speaking to
> leaving letters out.
critique the way you move your hands, your facial expressions, your
word choice.
You're trying to be helpful but it can't feel like that to him. It
will feel like he needs to run a gauntlet to get his thoughts from his
head into the head of someone who insists on focusing on how he's
presenting his message instead of what he's saying. I'm sure you care
about his thought, but your actions say something different and people
respond to the message of our actions, not to our intent.
If he speaks too quickly so you can't understand, it's perfectly okay
to let him know because that's focusing on his message. If he doesn't
know what to do, talk at some other time about some strategies he
might try. (Like a deep breath.) But do your best to try to understand
without interfering with the flow. Focus on his ideas and not the
presentation.
> Right now it has gotten so bad it affects his spelling. He is aMy daughter was still misspelling common words -- words she wrote a
> great reader so I know he will sort the spelling out one day.
lot so the wrong spelling was familiar -- until she was at least 11,
probably later. For her it was automatic spellcheck that helped the
most.
It probably feels like you're being his automatic speech check, but
the big difference is that spellcheck is *their* tool to use or not
use, pay attention to or ignore. And, unlike a person, writers aren't
trying to communicate with spellcheck ;-)
> In fact his speech drastically improved when he was learning toThe pressure to get kids into speech therapy is all about making kids
> read, by doing phonics. But now he is past that phase and I don't
> know what step to take next :)
understandable to teachers and so they won't get teased in school.
Your son isn't in school so you can allow his speech to unfold at the
pace it naturally will.
Right now your focus is on his brokenness and trying to fix him. Look
at his wholeness. He's no more broken than a 6 mo who can't yet walk.
Imagine what it would be like if a parent focused her attention and
concern on the imperfection of her 6 mos walking abilities.
The L and R thing is normal. Most experts have no experience with
speech developing naturally later because kids aren't allowed to. Or
when do attend school with speech difficulties, the kids are in
developing in a critical, teasing environment of school which does
have a negative effect. Same with naturally learning to read. Teachers
are clueless about how kids can learn to read on their own because
they have zero experience. What teachers have to deal with much later
isn't kids who can't naturally read but kids who are damaged by the
pressure to read before they're developmentally ready.
The best next step to take is go to the archives of the list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/messages
and search on "speech therapy"
Gail Higgins (gailbrocop in the archives) is a speech pathologist and
unschooling mom and her responses especially should help ease your
worries.
Joyce
NCMama
-=-But maybe the next time she resists speech I will explain that if she doesn t go to speech they wont let he go to the other activities and see what she prefers.-=-
That sounds like bribery, and coercion. It depends on how you present it, but how you've written it here doesn't sound like she really has a choice.
How 'bout: 'If you don't want to go to speech, we'll find another way for you to be around horses.' Then *make* that happen.
Caren
That sounds like bribery, and coercion. It depends on how you present it, but how you've written it here doesn't sound like she really has a choice.
How 'bout: 'If you don't want to go to speech, we'll find another way for you to be around horses.' Then *make* that happen.
Caren
Gisèle
This subject is interesting. I have a son who didn't start talking before he was 4 and then I was recommended to have him see a speech therapist. I neglected this offer know that I can go at his rythme. Now at 11 years old, he speeks well, but still needs help in organising his thought.
Does anyone else have experiences and different techniques they have used for their kids to help them develop their language and speech capabilities?
Gisèle
Does anyone else have experiences and different techniques they have used for their kids to help them develop their language and speech capabilities?
Gisèle
Joyce Fetteroll
On Aug 11, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Gisèle wrote:
a big cognitive jump for Kathryn in the prepuberty/11-13 age range.
She couldn't even sort socks easily before then ;-) Boys tend to be a
year or two delayed from girls.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Now at 11 years old, he speeks well, but still needs help inI wouldn't expect an 11 yo to have very organized thoughts. I did see
> organising his thought.
a big cognitive jump for Kathryn in the prepuberty/11-13 age range.
She couldn't even sort socks easily before then ;-) Boys tend to be a
year or two delayed from girls.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
Cameron couldn't pronounce Ys. He said L instead: young lady became lung lady.
Duncan couldn't pronounce Ls. He said Y instead: young lady became young yady.
We simply played with words. Rhymes, alliteration (Pamela Duncan has several books chocked full of alliteration.), consonance, and assonance.
I think you can find great stuff in Dr Seuss books too. Seuss' The Alphabet Book had "Big L, little l. Little Lola Lopp. Left leg, lazy lion licks a lollipop."
Of course, for years, we heard: "Big eh-ya, yitta eh-ya. Yitta Yoya Yopp. Yeft yeg, yazy yion yicks a yahyeepop."
I was told with both boys that I should "clip" their tongues. I knew that was silly (siyee <g>): I remembered lots of kids I babysat who couldn't say certain words---like my name (Kehwee). Back then, no one worried about speech issues like today, and every one of those kids grew up speaking just fine. So I refused and just enjoyed the quirky Ls and Ys as long as they lasted.
I promise you'll miss them when they're gone!
Talk to your kids a lot. Don't shut them down with corrections as they speak. Play with words. Eventually he will hear the difference, and he will take the steps to fix it.
There's no time table. Each child will learn when he's ready. *Serious* speech issues are blatantly obvious. A few mispronounced letters simply require patience.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Duncan couldn't pronounce Ls. He said Y instead: young lady became young yady.
We simply played with words. Rhymes, alliteration (Pamela Duncan has several books chocked full of alliteration.), consonance, and assonance.
I think you can find great stuff in Dr Seuss books too. Seuss' The Alphabet Book had "Big L, little l. Little Lola Lopp. Left leg, lazy lion licks a lollipop."
Of course, for years, we heard: "Big eh-ya, yitta eh-ya. Yitta Yoya Yopp. Yeft yeg, yazy yion yicks a yahyeepop."
I was told with both boys that I should "clip" their tongues. I knew that was silly (siyee <g>): I remembered lots of kids I babysat who couldn't say certain words---like my name (Kehwee). Back then, no one worried about speech issues like today, and every one of those kids grew up speaking just fine. So I refused and just enjoyed the quirky Ls and Ys as long as they lasted.
I promise you'll miss them when they're gone!
Talk to your kids a lot. Don't shut them down with corrections as they speak. Play with words. Eventually he will hear the difference, and he will take the steps to fix it.
There's no time table. Each child will learn when he's ready. *Serious* speech issues are blatantly obvious. A few mispronounced letters simply require patience.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
My experience too. Thirteen-ish seems about the time both my boys started thinking more seriously. And getting philosophic. <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
On Aug 11, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Gisèle wrote:
> Now at 11 years old, he speeks well, but still needs help in
> organising his thought.
I wouldn't expect an 11 yo to have very organized thoughts. I did see
a big cognitive jump for Kathryn in the prepuberty/11-13 age range.
She couldn't even sort socks easily before then ;-) Boys tend to be a
year or two delayed from girls.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]