putting bikes away - advice welcome!
[email protected]
Hi,
I was just dealing with the issue of having the girls put their bikes away last evening, because it was going to rain over night. I will relay what I did and then I welcome folks writing back with suggestions of how I might have handled it differently. I did try to handle the situation by respecting the girls and not threatening, etc. But, I also do not want to start a habit of "every time we leave our bikes out Mom will take care of it for us." I did think of not doing anything and just using natural consequences, but that just felt mean spirited.
So, I gently reminded them a couple of times that it was going to rain and that bikes needed to be put away. They both went in the house to watch TV and be on the computer, while hubby and I were still outside. I went inside to do something for a few moments and gently reminded again. I also said quietly to each child, without nagging or lecturing, "When bikes get wet, they rust." When each child was ready to put her bike away, I went outside with her while she did it. (Neither of my girls like to be outside by herself.)
I realize I probably over reminded, since that is a form of nagging. My question is though, should I, after reminding once and giving the information about bikes rusting, let it go? Then still be ready to go outside with them when they are ready to take care of it. Is it OK to let the bike sit out and get wet, if they don't. My older daughter's bike was brand new last fall and wasn't cheep.
I know some would say I should have done it for them, since I would appreciate someone doing that for me, if I had forgotten. And, I get that perspective. But, if I do it every time, what are they learning from that? I have been picking up toys in the living room more, but I figure I'm doing that for me, because I like a clean living room. I don't do it every day, but at least a few times a week. I do at times remind them that if they leave stuff out, it might get stepped on and broken, even if people are trying to step over or around it.
Anyway, I'm open to suggestions. I'm still trying to figure out how to be more gentle with them, without doing everything for them.
Amy C.
=
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was just dealing with the issue of having the girls put their bikes away last evening, because it was going to rain over night. I will relay what I did and then I welcome folks writing back with suggestions of how I might have handled it differently. I did try to handle the situation by respecting the girls and not threatening, etc. But, I also do not want to start a habit of "every time we leave our bikes out Mom will take care of it for us." I did think of not doing anything and just using natural consequences, but that just felt mean spirited.
So, I gently reminded them a couple of times that it was going to rain and that bikes needed to be put away. They both went in the house to watch TV and be on the computer, while hubby and I were still outside. I went inside to do something for a few moments and gently reminded again. I also said quietly to each child, without nagging or lecturing, "When bikes get wet, they rust." When each child was ready to put her bike away, I went outside with her while she did it. (Neither of my girls like to be outside by herself.)
I realize I probably over reminded, since that is a form of nagging. My question is though, should I, after reminding once and giving the information about bikes rusting, let it go? Then still be ready to go outside with them when they are ready to take care of it. Is it OK to let the bike sit out and get wet, if they don't. My older daughter's bike was brand new last fall and wasn't cheep.
I know some would say I should have done it for them, since I would appreciate someone doing that for me, if I had forgotten. And, I get that perspective. But, if I do it every time, what are they learning from that? I have been picking up toys in the living room more, but I figure I'm doing that for me, because I like a clean living room. I don't do it every day, but at least a few times a week. I do at times remind them that if they leave stuff out, it might get stepped on and broken, even if people are trying to step over or around it.
Anyway, I'm open to suggestions. I'm still trying to figure out how to be more gentle with them, without doing everything for them.
Amy C.
=
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
True story...two times this week, my 13 yr old has left the milk out
overnight on the counter. (They he and the 11 yr old have a late night
eating habit.) Anyway, I got up and put the milk away the first time. When
he woke up I reminded him he left it out and that was it. This morning,
once he gets up again, I'll remind him again he did it again. The reason
for the reminding is two fold. First, my husband who is less into the
unschooling thing than I am wants an over the top reaction and I'd rather
avoid that. So I'll remind the boy so the husband feels there has been some
element of "punishment" for the infraction. The other reason is that I
forget things and I want to be reminded so eventually I'll stop forgetting.
Come to my house after I've baked...often you'll find the oven still
going...cooking nothing. That's my fault. I forget. The more I'm reminded
the less likely I am to forget. BUT I want someone to say "Hey, you are
baking nothing again!" AND shut it off. Not call me in with the intention
of shaming me or "If you have to get up and do it then you'll be more
circumspect about not forgetting next time."
Your girls forgot. Right now you are doing a lot for them, but you know,
when they were born you changed their diapers and when they were potty
training you wiped their butts and I bet you never thought " I know you are
only 6 months old but if I change this poopy diaper for you you'll never
learn!" Putting things away is a learned behavior. If a very young child
is overly neat and concerned with everything in it's place that's a child
with OCD tendencies and should be watched. Children are entropy. But they
grow out of it.
I say put the bikes up. A "Hey ladies, I stuck your bikes in the garage for
ya!" said WITHOUT shaming or the intent to modify their behavior will
eventually make an impression. My boys are in the throws of puberty. I
thought I might have to remind them that deodorant was not optional anymore
and that it was to be a daily occurrence for the rest of my life but it
wasn't. They finally have it. Your girls will get it. It's just not time
yet.
Karen
"Correlation does not imply causation."
"If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a
nail." Abraham Maslow
overnight on the counter. (They he and the 11 yr old have a late night
eating habit.) Anyway, I got up and put the milk away the first time. When
he woke up I reminded him he left it out and that was it. This morning,
once he gets up again, I'll remind him again he did it again. The reason
for the reminding is two fold. First, my husband who is less into the
unschooling thing than I am wants an over the top reaction and I'd rather
avoid that. So I'll remind the boy so the husband feels there has been some
element of "punishment" for the infraction. The other reason is that I
forget things and I want to be reminded so eventually I'll stop forgetting.
Come to my house after I've baked...often you'll find the oven still
going...cooking nothing. That's my fault. I forget. The more I'm reminded
the less likely I am to forget. BUT I want someone to say "Hey, you are
baking nothing again!" AND shut it off. Not call me in with the intention
of shaming me or "If you have to get up and do it then you'll be more
circumspect about not forgetting next time."
Your girls forgot. Right now you are doing a lot for them, but you know,
when they were born you changed their diapers and when they were potty
training you wiped their butts and I bet you never thought " I know you are
only 6 months old but if I change this poopy diaper for you you'll never
learn!" Putting things away is a learned behavior. If a very young child
is overly neat and concerned with everything in it's place that's a child
with OCD tendencies and should be watched. Children are entropy. But they
grow out of it.
I say put the bikes up. A "Hey ladies, I stuck your bikes in the garage for
ya!" said WITHOUT shaming or the intent to modify their behavior will
eventually make an impression. My boys are in the throws of puberty. I
thought I might have to remind them that deodorant was not optional anymore
and that it was to be a daily occurrence for the rest of my life but it
wasn't. They finally have it. Your girls will get it. It's just not time
yet.
Karen
"Correlation does not imply causation."
"If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a
nail." Abraham Maslow
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:56 AM, <AECANGORA@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
> I know some would say I should have done it for them, since I would
> appreciate someone doing that for me, if I had forgotten. And, I get that
> perspective. But, if I do it every time, what are they learning from that? I
> have been picking up toys in the living room more, but I figure I'm doing
> that for me, because I like a clean living room. I don't do it every day,
> but at least a few times a week. I do at times remind them that if they
> leave stuff out, it might get stepped on and broken, even if people are
> trying to step over or around it.
>
> Anyway, I'm open to suggestions. I'm still trying to figure out how to be
> more gentle with them, without doing everything for them.
>
> Amy C.
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
If your husband left a tool outside and you were still out, or if you go out again to do something and saw it , would you have called him out to take care of his tool or would you have lovinngly put his tool away for him????
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
otherstar
>>>>I also said quietly to each child, without nagging or lecturing, "When bikes get wet, they rust."<<<<<If a bike is left out in the rain one time, it is not going to rust. If you wake up and realize that it is not put up and got wet, you can wipe it down with a dry towel and spray WD-40 on the chain and any other moving part that might get a little out of whack if it gets a little wet. My biggest concern is to make sure that the bike is not left in the driveway where it can get run over. In those instances, I ask the girls to get the bikes out of the driveway and into the grass. If they don't, I will do it for them and let them know that I did it. It is usually something along the lines of, "Hey, you forgot to move your bike so I put it up on the porch for you."
>>>>My question is though, should I, after reminding once and giving the information about bikes rusting, let it go? Then still be ready to go outside with them when they are ready to take care of it. Is it OK to let the bike sit out and get wet, if they don't. My older daughter's bike was brand new last fall and wasn't cheep.<<<<<I would remind them once and see what happens. If they don't do anything, I would let it go and either do it for them or remind them later. I don't always remember to do everything I am supposed to do. I forget to put the clothes in dryer all the time. It would stink if somebody constantly nagged me and told me that I needed to remember to put the clothes in the dryer because if I don't, they will mildew. If I leave them in there forever, yes, they will mildew. If I forget them overnight or for a little bit, I have the option of rewashing them. You are making an illogical leap by saying that they will rust. They will not rust instantly. It takes a lot of water exposure for a bike to rust. When I was a kid, I used to love riding through mud muddles. I even liked trying to ride in the rain when I could get away with it. When my bike got all muddy, I would hose it down. I don't remember drying it or taking any kind of special precautions. I would have to spray my chain from time to time but that was it. I feel like you are over reacting and trying to scare them into compliance. If you change your perspective about how horrible it is to leave your bike out, perhaps that will help you to have a more balanced perspective and approach.
>>>> But, if I do it every time, what are they learning from that?<<<<<They are learning that you love them. I would hate it if my husband had that attitude with me about all of the little things that I forget or don't get to do in a day.
Connie
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Joyce Fetteroll
On May 8, 2010, at 10:56 AM, AECANGORA@... wrote:
brains work. Putting the bike away isn't really on their radar. While
they're riding they're already thinking about what they're headed for.
Their awareness of their environment is focused on whether it helps or
gets in the way of their play. ;-) You can't change how their brains
work right now but you can make their life irritating later that day
by doing what you think will change them.
Rather than telling them, ask them to go with you when they aren't
busy. If it you treat it as something you want done and ask them to
help you, it will help you ask and thank them with sincerity rather
than irritation that they're not doing what you want them to or not
doing something you see as theirs to do.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But, I also do not want to start a habit of "every time we leave ourThat's what parents think kids are thinking but it's not how kids'
> bikes out Mom will take care of it for us."
brains work. Putting the bike away isn't really on their radar. While
they're riding they're already thinking about what they're headed for.
Their awareness of their environment is focused on whether it helps or
gets in the way of their play. ;-) You can't change how their brains
work right now but you can make their life irritating later that day
by doing what you think will change them.
Rather than telling them, ask them to go with you when they aren't
busy. If it you treat it as something you want done and ask them to
help you, it will help you ask and thank them with sincerity rather
than irritation that they're not doing what you want them to or not
doing something you see as theirs to do.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Is it a difficult thing to put the bikes away? I mean, is it on the way into the house and just a matter of rolling a bit farther to get under cover? Or is it a big honking deal where you have to open the gate or the garage and move stuff out of the way and lift the bikes or something?
Just trying to picture the end of the bike ride. I'm the kid and have the choice of dropping the bike or putting it away. How much harder is it for me to put it away?
Nance
Just trying to picture the end of the bike ride. I'm the kid and have the choice of dropping the bike or putting it away. How much harder is it for me to put it away?
Nance
--- In [email protected], AECANGORA@... wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I was just dealing with the issue of having the girls put their bikes away last evening, because it was going to rain over night.
>
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], AECANGORA@... wrote:
But they don't rust instantly, or if left out in the rain sporadically, or if they're maintained in other ways - which sounds like nit-picking but its also the kind of thing that can make parents' comments less trustworthy: Blah, blah, blah, mom's always saying things like that and she's not always right. Its not so much nagging or lecturing as that you're undermining yourself as a valuable source of information. When bikes get wet, they're wet. That's the natural consequence, and its not a horrible one. Recently Ray left his bike too close to the creek - we're near Nashville where all the flooding was - and it got washed away. That's a consequence he'll be taking to heart - and me, too. If I hear there's going to be a big storm again, I'll be sure to let him know so he can move his bike ;)
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>I also said quietly to each child, without nagging or lecturing, "When bikes get wet, they rust."*************
But they don't rust instantly, or if left out in the rain sporadically, or if they're maintained in other ways - which sounds like nit-picking but its also the kind of thing that can make parents' comments less trustworthy: Blah, blah, blah, mom's always saying things like that and she's not always right. Its not so much nagging or lecturing as that you're undermining yourself as a valuable source of information. When bikes get wet, they're wet. That's the natural consequence, and its not a horrible one. Recently Ray left his bike too close to the creek - we're near Nashville where all the flooding was - and it got washed away. That's a consequence he'll be taking to heart - and me, too. If I hear there's going to be a big storm again, I'll be sure to let him know so he can move his bike ;)
>>But, if I do it every time, what are they learning from that?That you're willing to do things for them out of kindness. George will jump out of bed in the middle of the night and go roll up the windows in my car if it starts to rain - dash outside in his skivvies in the wet. Its sweet. If he didn't, I'd probably get up and do it myself. I've always driven older cars, and know how fast a crop of mildew can get started (eeeewww!). George doing little acts of kindness for me helps me pass that kindness on to other people. Its much easier to be kind and sweet when you're full of warm fuzziness.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
That's a good point! If its a hassle to put them away, its worth considering creating some kind of "bike shed" - a specific place where the bikes "live" where they can be dry and is also convenient for the kids. Even a little canopy off the side of the house could work if space is dear.
---Meredith
> Just trying to picture the end of the bike ride. I'm the kid and have the choice of dropping the bike or putting it away. How much harder is it for me to put it away?**************
That's a good point! If its a hassle to put them away, its worth considering creating some kind of "bike shed" - a specific place where the bikes "live" where they can be dry and is also convenient for the kids. Even a little canopy off the side of the house could work if space is dear.
---Meredith
amy_aec
--- In [email protected], Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
Amy C.
>I never thought of it like this and have always been jealous of families who seem to have kids that are really good at piking up. I have a friend that has worked really hard to "train" her kids to put things away and clean up, and not she is worried about all the anxiety that they seem to be having.
> Putting things away is a learned behavior. If a very young child
> is overly neat and concerned with everything in it's place that's a child
> with OCD tendencies and should be watched. Children are entropy. But they
> grow out of it.
> I say put the bikes up. A "Hey ladies, I stuck your bikes in the garage forI will give this a try. I just have that little voice in that back of my head that says "I am allowing them to be lazy."
> ya!" said WITHOUT shaming or the intent to modify their behavior will
> eventually make an impression. My boys are in the throws of puberty. I
> thought I might have to remind them that deodorant was not optional anymore
> and that it was to be a daily occurrence for the rest of my life but it
> wasn't. They finally have it. Your girls will get it. It's just not time
> yet.
Amy C.
amy_aec
--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
Now that I think about it, it might be even more respectful to ask the girls if they want their bikes put away at all, instead of making it my issue.
Amy C.
>Yes, and I do it a lot, since he is a clutter-er and I like order (actually need to manage my ADD). I just have to be careful not to over clean for him - making sure not to put it away unless he wants me to. Or, I put things in a previously agreed upon catch-all spot for his things.
> If your husband left a tool outside and you were still out, or if you go out again to do something and saw it , would you have called him out to take care of his tool or would you have lovinngly put his tool away for him????
>
Now that I think about it, it might be even more respectful to ask the girls if they want their bikes put away at all, instead of making it my issue.
Amy C.
amy_aec
--- In [email protected], "otherstar" <otherstar@...> wrote:
Amy C.
>Yeah, I don't either, and it would be really annoying to be reminded multiple times in a 30 min. period!
> I would remind them once and see what happens. If they don't do anything, I would let it go and either do it for them or remind them later. I don't always remember to do everything I am supposed to do.<
>You are making an illogical leap by saying that they will rust. They will not rust instantly. It takes a lot of water exposure for a bike to rust.<True, I was using that as an external motivator and a bad one at that.
> >>>> But, if I do it every time, what are they learning from that?<<<<<Good Point! I'm still working with those old parenting messages that doing too much for someone is spoiling. And, that if everything is done for them, they won't want to do anything for themselves and will still be living at home with no job and no future if I don't get them to pick up after themselves now. I think I watched too much "Dr. Phil" back when I was tandem nursing and not able to get up out of the chair;-)
>
> They are learning that you love them. I would hate it if my husband had that attitude with me about all of the little things that I forget or don't get to do in a day.<
Amy C.
amy_aec
Thank you, Joyce,
That's a very helpful perspective. I will give it a try next time. I already do it with our rabbits as it was suggested to someone else on this site back when I first signed up. Basically, I announce that I'm going to feed them and ask if anyone would like to help. Then I just do it regardless. I'm still a little uncomfortable with it, except that I have noticed them spontaneously helping with other things from time to time, and that feels nice.
Amy
That's a very helpful perspective. I will give it a try next time. I already do it with our rabbits as it was suggested to someone else on this site back when I first signed up. Basically, I announce that I'm going to feed them and ask if anyone would like to help. Then I just do it regardless. I'm still a little uncomfortable with it, except that I have noticed them spontaneously helping with other things from time to time, and that feels nice.
Amy
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On May 8, 2010, at 10:56 AM, AECANGORA@... wrote:
>
> > But, I also do not want to start a habit of "every time we leave our
> > bikes out Mom will take care of it for us."
>
> That's what parents think kids are thinking but it's not how kids'
> brains work. Putting the bike away isn't really on their radar. While
> they're riding they're already thinking about what they're headed for.
> Their awareness of their environment is focused on whether it helps or
> gets in the way of their play. ;-) You can't change how their brains
> work right now but you can make their life irritating later that day
> by doing what you think will change them.
>
> Rather than telling them, ask them to go with you when they aren't
> busy. If it you treat it as something you want done and ask them to
> help you, it will help you ask and thank them with sincerity rather
> than irritation that they're not doing what you want them to or not
> doing something you see as theirs to do.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
amy_aec
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
I didn't actually ask them to put the bikes under the canoe. They had been riding them around the yard and left them to scattered about when they were done. All I wanted them to do was to get them by the canoe, so I could put them under it. I also, did go with both of them once they were ready to put them away. I just didn't think I should do the whole thing for them. But, I do understand now the thinking that it's just being nice and loving and not creating lazy kids.
Amy C.
>Actually, we don't at the momment have a good place for the bikes. The shed they were in all winter is small, and since they have been removed, is now too disorganized for them to put them back their. We have put them in the rabbit shed some, but that will soon be too small, since our herd is growing and we will be adding more cages. So, we have opted for putting them under a canoe that is supported off the ground on a wood frame against the back of the rabbit shed.
> Is it a difficult thing to put the bikes away? I mean, is it on the way into the house and just a matter of rolling a bit farther to get under cover? Or is it a big honking deal where you have to open the gate or the garage and move stuff out of the way and lift the bikes or something?
>
> Just trying to picture the end of the bike ride. I'm the kid and have the choice of dropping the bike or putting it away. How much harder is it for me to put it away?
>
> Nance
I didn't actually ask them to put the bikes under the canoe. They had been riding them around the yard and left them to scattered about when they were done. All I wanted them to do was to get them by the canoe, so I could put them under it. I also, did go with both of them once they were ready to put them away. I just didn't think I should do the whole thing for them. But, I do understand now the thinking that it's just being nice and loving and not creating lazy kids.
Amy C.
amy_aec
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
Amy C.
>Yes, that is a good point! It was definitely future telling and yet, not at all true!
> --- In [email protected], AECANGORA@ wrote:
> >I also said quietly to each child, without nagging or lecturing, "When bikes get wet, they rust."
> *************
>
> But they don't rust instantly, or if left out in the rain sporadically, or if they're maintained in other ways - which sounds like nit-picking but its also the kind of thing that can make parents' comments less trustworthy: Blah, blah, blah, mom's always saying things like that and she's not always right. Its not so much nagging or lecturing as that you're undermining yourself as a valuable source of information.<
>When bikes get wet, they're wet. That's the natural consequence, and its not a horrible one. Recently Ray left his bike too close to the creek - we're near Nashville where all the flooding was - and it got washed away. That's a consequence he'll be taking to heart - and me, too. If I hear there's going to be a big storm again, I'll be sure to let him know so he can move his bike ;)>That's the part I was struggling with. It didn't feel natural to me, if I knowingly let it happen. But the voice in my head didn't think it was right to do it for them either. (Dr. Phil again!)
> >>But, if I do it every time, what are they learning from that?That's a very good point. I want them to want to do things for others without being forced. What better way to model it. (I know, I know, but don't do it because I have the agenda of teaching them how to be loving, etc.)
>
> That you're willing to do things for them out of kindness. George will jump out of bed in the middle of the night and go roll up the windows in my car if it starts to rain - dash outside in his skivvies in the wet. Its sweet. If he didn't, I'd probably get up and do it myself. I've always driven older cars, and know how fast a crop of mildew can get started (eeeewww!). George doing little acts of kindness for me helps me pass that kindness on to other people. Its much easier to be kind and sweet when you're full of warm fuzziness.<
Amy C.
Ulrike haupt
Amy
Isn't this fun? You come with a 'real life valid behavioral issue' and
within a day or so you come to understand that you were right all along
though did not know how right you were in knowing it was not the behaviour
but the circumsances. You did not want to nag your kids but did not see how
to get out of nagging mode and after only a couple of posts you already saw
the 'real' issue. Don't you just love this list?
Blissings
Ulrike
from Namibia - somewhere in Africa
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5099 (20100509) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
Isn't this fun? You come with a 'real life valid behavioral issue' and
within a day or so you come to understand that you were right all along
though did not know how right you were in knowing it was not the behaviour
but the circumsances. You did not want to nag your kids but did not see how
to get out of nagging mode and after only a couple of posts you already saw
the 'real' issue. Don't you just love this list?
Blissings
Ulrike
from Namibia - somewhere in Africa
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5099 (20100509) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
Schuyler
It is easy to fall prey to the idea that when you do for someone else they are in a position of taking advantage of you. When you see someone doing something fun and you know that you have to go and be responsible, it's easy to have the parable of the ant and the grasshopper run through your mind. It takes turning the idea over to look and see how by doing something for someone else you are loving them in the most wonderful of ways. Meredith wrote of George running outside in the rain, in the middle of the night to roll up her car windows. I doubt that he is feeling the least bit resentful when he does that.
People have written beautifully about changing their perspective about chores and moving it to setting up the next moment of play for a child. http://sandradodd.com/chores/shift has some, and you can back up a level to http://sandradodd.com/chores and read some more if you want. Rue Kream wrote: "Jon and I do not see housework as a
chore. We do it cheerfully, in order to make our home a place we all
enjoy."
I've found, in my own experience that the more I do for Simon and for Linnaea and for David the more they do for me. David and I were talking about it a couple of days ago, how generous our lives are, how not mean. We work (maybe work isn't the right word, maybe play is better) we play to infuse our lives with joy and generousity and yesses and the things that make us, each of us, feel good.
Some of the things are easy, some of the things are pleasure all round. I like creating food, so making rhubarb jam and bagels and cream cheese and butter and fresh bread and brownies and those kinds of things are easy for me, are an easy gift to offer because I so enjoy the process. David likes taking care of the cars, so keeping our cars safe and running and problem solving and thinking about them and getting on-line looking for solutions, those are an absolute joy of service for him to give and for me to receive. Linnaea likes doing that to and will hang outside with him, they put a new exhaust on our van together, chatting and lifting and laughing. Some things take thought, bringing a cup of tea to someone whose busy, or putting together a platter of food for Simon when he's not sure what he's craving. And some things take picturing the outcome to make them pleasurable, like putting away the clothes. Fortunately I know from experience that when I put
away Linnaea's clothes she'll find something exciting and fantastic to wear and I'll know very quickly the fruits of my labours. So when I sort and fold I can picture her dancing and smiling to keep me going.
Our rich and generous life means each of us often overflows with an ability to give to each other. Last night, Simon was snuggled up with David and Linnaea and I were snuggled up and we were all watching a new episode of Family Guy. I asked Linnaea if she would go and get a frozen grape for me and she danced into the kitchen and got one for me and one for Simon and one for herself (David doesn't like to eat that late in the day). None of the body language accompanied her favour to me that I can remember having when I was asked to do something, even something so small, by my mom or my dad. Far more often then not a request for help is met with a yes. And when it isn't, when a no is given, well, that's okay too.
Putting away a bike means that the next time they want to ride it'll be dry, means that you care for them, means that your need for bikes being put away are met and that their needs for moving on to the next interesting thing in their day is met, means that maybe you'll be the one to see the cool thing skittering under the canoe or the way the spokes make a shadow on the lawn or whatever it is that is outside in that instance of your gift of service, of love. Puting away a bike is a small act of love and generousity and it will beget love and generousity in far greater measure than requiring an act from your children.
Schuyler
________________________________
Hi,
I was just dealing with the issue of having the girls put their bikes away last evening, because it was going to rain over night. I will relay what I did and then I welcome folks writing back with suggestions of how I might have handled it differently. I did try to handle the situation by respecting the girls and not threatening, etc. But, I also do not want to start a habit of "every time we leave our bikes out Mom will take care of it for us." I did think of not doing anything and just using natural consequences, but that just felt mean spirited.
So, I gently reminded them a couple of times that it was going to rain and that bikes needed to be put away. They both went in the house to watch TV and be on the computer, while hubby and I were still outside. I went inside to do something for a few moments and gently reminded again. I also said quietly to each child, without nagging or lecturing, "When bikes get wet, they rust." When each child was ready to put her bike away, I went outside with her while she did it. (Neither of my girls like to be outside by herself.)
I realize I probably over reminded, since that is a form of nagging. My question is though, should I, after reminding once and giving the information about bikes rusting, let it go? Then still be ready to go outside with them when they are ready to take care of it. Is it OK to let the bike sit out and get wet, if they don't. My older daughter's bike was brand new last fall and wasn't cheep.
I know some would say I should have done it for them, since I would appreciate someone doing that for me, if I had forgotten. And, I get that perspective. But, if I do it every time, what are they learning from that? I have been picking up toys in the living room more, but I figure I'm doing that for me, because I like a clean living room. I don't do it every day, but at least a few times a week. I do at times remind them that if they leave stuff out, it might get stepped on and broken, even if people are trying to step over or around it.
Anyway, I'm open to suggestions. I'm still trying to figure out how to be more gentle with them, without doing everything for them.
Amy C.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
People have written beautifully about changing their perspective about chores and moving it to setting up the next moment of play for a child. http://sandradodd.com/chores/shift has some, and you can back up a level to http://sandradodd.com/chores and read some more if you want. Rue Kream wrote: "Jon and I do not see housework as a
chore. We do it cheerfully, in order to make our home a place we all
enjoy."
I've found, in my own experience that the more I do for Simon and for Linnaea and for David the more they do for me. David and I were talking about it a couple of days ago, how generous our lives are, how not mean. We work (maybe work isn't the right word, maybe play is better) we play to infuse our lives with joy and generousity and yesses and the things that make us, each of us, feel good.
Some of the things are easy, some of the things are pleasure all round. I like creating food, so making rhubarb jam and bagels and cream cheese and butter and fresh bread and brownies and those kinds of things are easy for me, are an easy gift to offer because I so enjoy the process. David likes taking care of the cars, so keeping our cars safe and running and problem solving and thinking about them and getting on-line looking for solutions, those are an absolute joy of service for him to give and for me to receive. Linnaea likes doing that to and will hang outside with him, they put a new exhaust on our van together, chatting and lifting and laughing. Some things take thought, bringing a cup of tea to someone whose busy, or putting together a platter of food for Simon when he's not sure what he's craving. And some things take picturing the outcome to make them pleasurable, like putting away the clothes. Fortunately I know from experience that when I put
away Linnaea's clothes she'll find something exciting and fantastic to wear and I'll know very quickly the fruits of my labours. So when I sort and fold I can picture her dancing and smiling to keep me going.
Our rich and generous life means each of us often overflows with an ability to give to each other. Last night, Simon was snuggled up with David and Linnaea and I were snuggled up and we were all watching a new episode of Family Guy. I asked Linnaea if she would go and get a frozen grape for me and she danced into the kitchen and got one for me and one for Simon and one for herself (David doesn't like to eat that late in the day). None of the body language accompanied her favour to me that I can remember having when I was asked to do something, even something so small, by my mom or my dad. Far more often then not a request for help is met with a yes. And when it isn't, when a no is given, well, that's okay too.
Putting away a bike means that the next time they want to ride it'll be dry, means that you care for them, means that your need for bikes being put away are met and that their needs for moving on to the next interesting thing in their day is met, means that maybe you'll be the one to see the cool thing skittering under the canoe or the way the spokes make a shadow on the lawn or whatever it is that is outside in that instance of your gift of service, of love. Puting away a bike is a small act of love and generousity and it will beget love and generousity in far greater measure than requiring an act from your children.
Schuyler
________________________________
Hi,
I was just dealing with the issue of having the girls put their bikes away last evening, because it was going to rain over night. I will relay what I did and then I welcome folks writing back with suggestions of how I might have handled it differently. I did try to handle the situation by respecting the girls and not threatening, etc. But, I also do not want to start a habit of "every time we leave our bikes out Mom will take care of it for us." I did think of not doing anything and just using natural consequences, but that just felt mean spirited.
So, I gently reminded them a couple of times that it was going to rain and that bikes needed to be put away. They both went in the house to watch TV and be on the computer, while hubby and I were still outside. I went inside to do something for a few moments and gently reminded again. I also said quietly to each child, without nagging or lecturing, "When bikes get wet, they rust." When each child was ready to put her bike away, I went outside with her while she did it. (Neither of my girls like to be outside by herself.)
I realize I probably over reminded, since that is a form of nagging. My question is though, should I, after reminding once and giving the information about bikes rusting, let it go? Then still be ready to go outside with them when they are ready to take care of it. Is it OK to let the bike sit out and get wet, if they don't. My older daughter's bike was brand new last fall and wasn't cheep.
I know some would say I should have done it for them, since I would appreciate someone doing that for me, if I had forgotten. And, I get that perspective. But, if I do it every time, what are they learning from that? I have been picking up toys in the living room more, but I figure I'm doing that for me, because I like a clean living room. I don't do it every day, but at least a few times a week. I do at times remind them that if they leave stuff out, it might get stepped on and broken, even if people are trying to step over or around it.
Anyway, I'm open to suggestions. I'm still trying to figure out how to be more gentle with them, without doing everything for them.
Amy C.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Thank you Schuyler for this post beautiful to start my week, It will be my inspiration for this coming days, months years.
I loved reading it. It was amazingly sweet.
I too have woken up at 2 AM to a thunderstorm aproaching to go outside and take Brian;s work boots inside so he would have them dry when he got up only two and a half hours later.
The one thing that I also notice is how my kids feel loved when I do things for them.
No not only my kids but specially Brian.
They come and hug me and tell me how they love me just because I got them a glass of water or cleaned their room.
They offer to help a lot too and Brian does pretty much anything I ask or need even when he does not have time.
Living this way is so wonderful.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I loved reading it. It was amazingly sweet.
I too have woken up at 2 AM to a thunderstorm aproaching to go outside and take Brian;s work boots inside so he would have them dry when he got up only two and a half hours later.
The one thing that I also notice is how my kids feel loved when I do things for them.
No not only my kids but specially Brian.
They come and hug me and tell me how they love me just because I got them a glass of water or cleaned their room.
They offer to help a lot too and Brian does pretty much anything I ask or need even when he does not have time.
Living this way is so wonderful.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
amy_aec
Hi,
Thank you Schuyler for this! I am in the process of trying to change my thinking. I choose to get married and have a family, and I even choose to be a traditional housewife, because that is what I truly wanted to do. And, then, somewhere along the line, I started resenting all tasks that were involved. Mainly, because I see them as "have to's", instead of "want to's".
I have been focusing on doing things from a place of Joy instead. When I get tired, which is when I get whinny, I choose to let things go and do them another time. I am finding that when I do this, I actually enjoy the task more later and am actually getting more done in the long run. I'm also learning that half a task done, is better than none of the task done. This is a big one for me, because I tend to have that "all or nothing" thinking, which prevents me from getting a lot of projects started!
Amy C.
Thank you Schuyler for this! I am in the process of trying to change my thinking. I choose to get married and have a family, and I even choose to be a traditional housewife, because that is what I truly wanted to do. And, then, somewhere along the line, I started resenting all tasks that were involved. Mainly, because I see them as "have to's", instead of "want to's".
I have been focusing on doing things from a place of Joy instead. When I get tired, which is when I get whinny, I choose to let things go and do them another time. I am finding that when I do this, I actually enjoy the task more later and am actually getting more done in the long run. I'm also learning that half a task done, is better than none of the task done. This is a big one for me, because I tend to have that "all or nothing" thinking, which prevents me from getting a lot of projects started!
Amy C.
--- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
> I've found, in my own experience that the more I do for Simon and for Linnaea and for David the more they do for me. David and I were talking about it a couple of days ago, how generous our lives are, how not mean. We work (maybe work isn't the right word, maybe play is better) we play to infuse our lives with joy and generousity and yesses and the things that make us, each of us, feel good.
>
> Some of the things are easy, some of the things are pleasure all round. I like creating food, so making rhubarb jam and bagels and cream cheese and butter and fresh bread and brownies and those kinds of things are easy for me, are an easy gift to offer because I so enjoy the process. David likes taking care of the cars, so keeping our cars safe and running and problem solving and thinking about them and getting on-line looking for solutions, those are an absolute joy of service for him to give and for me to receive. Linnaea likes doing that to and will hang outside with him, they put a new exhaust on our van together, chatting and lifting and laughing. Some things take thought, bringing a cup of tea to someone whose busy, or putting together a platter of food for Simon when he's not sure what he's craving. And some things take picturing the outcome to make them pleasurable, like putting away the clothes. Fortunately I know from experience that when I put
> away Linnaea's clothes she'll find something exciting and fantastic to wear and I'll know very quickly the fruits of my labours. So when I sort and fold I can picture her dancing and smiling to keep me going.
>
> Our rich and generous life means each of us often overflows with an ability to give to each other. Last night, Simon was snuggled up with David and Linnaea and I were snuggled up and we were all watching a new episode of Family Guy. I asked Linnaea if she would go and get a frozen grape for me and she danced into the kitchen and got one for me and one for Simon and one for herself (David doesn't like to eat that late in the day). None of the body language accompanied her favour to me that I can remember having when I was asked to do something, even something so small, by my mom or my dad. Far more often then not a request for help is met with a yes. And when it isn't, when a no is given, well, that's okay too.
>
> Putting away a bike means that the next time they want to ride it'll be dry, means that you care for them, means that your need for bikes being put away are met and that their needs for moving on to the next interesting thing in their day is met, means that maybe you'll be the one to see the cool thing skittering under the canoe or the way the spokes make a shadow on the lawn or whatever it is that is outside in that instance of your gift of service, of love. Puting away a bike is a small act of love and generousity and it will beget love and generousity in far greater measure than requiring an act from your children.
>
> Schuyler
>