6 Yr Old
[email protected]
Ok so Im kind of new to unschooling, I tried lessons (workbooks) and my daughter hates them and now I'm back to just reading to her, I read her series books like Magic Tree House- which she LOVES- and then we'll look at the research guide if she's interested or we'll delve into one of the topics more if it peeks her interest, and I read Little House books and stuff like that... anyway, I'm trying to follow her lead but I guess I'm having trouble letting go of control and figuring out what to focus on...
Basically what we do is this- I try to expose her to different areas to see what she is good at and likes. So far what I can gather is that she loves art and nature/animals. I work 10 hrs a week and while I work she spends time with my grandmother or my mom- and we have a 10 month old too. I have a varied scheduled so none of our days are the same. Anyway, she takes ballet one or two times a week, which she really enjoys, some days she loves it, some days she could care less. I usually make her go to the class at least once a week, I want her to at least get through and do the recital and then see if she wants to continue. SHe loves dance so I think she will, I don't require any practice at home and she doesn't practice.
She also take piano, wanted to quit so we did for awhile, then I found a different teacher to try and we do it every other week or once a month for a 30 min lesson and I ask her to practice a couple times a week for 10 minutes. I want her to give music a try and maybe after another few months move to another instrument and see and then we can decide on stopping. Basically left up to her she wants to do nothing, and that's fine but I want her to try things enough to really get a feel for them first before quitting.
She takes a homeschool PE class once a week, she doesn't want to go but it's only 1 hr a week, free, and I think it gives her good exposure to different sports in a group= plus she's now wanting to do tennis more from learning some at the class so this is something I make her go to most weeks...
She goes to a club at our church once a week, it's like coed scouts, since we don't go to church (because I'm not a morning person) this is great for her, she does like it, she enjoys the other kids there, they read stories, do crafts, learn songs, and sometimes go on an outing, etc...
She's also in girl scouts and seems to enjoy it. We're in a homeschool coop on Friday mornings, it's large and that's where she has her girlscout meeting. I do like the coop, she has regular kids she sees every week, fun classes, school programs, fieldtrips, parties and get togethers, yearbook even, I really enjoy it. On that Friday morning she takes 3 classes- one being girl scouts, then shhe takes a social studies type class there where they read stories and do crafts related to a different country each week, then they have a recess time, a little assembly time with bible stories and songs and then she takes a science class- they do a different experiment each week. Usually afterwards we go to a mom's house where she teaches art and has a playdate, which my daughter LOVES.
Once a month we go to a garden club for an hour where she plants and does crafts, which she also loves! I also try to pick one day a month where we do something fun that she enjoys such as the zoo, the museum, the beach, St Augustine, roller skating, bowling, indoor play area, a park, etc.. Also once a month or every other month we try to go to a class they have at one of the nature centers, usually it's an hour or so and my daughter loves these. I also try to plan a couple fieldtrips every month, we do things like tour Whole Foods or the post office or a chocolate factory or an animal hospital, or we go to a play or even the circus, visit a farm, go on an overnight camping trip, or even go to Orlando and visit Sea World or another place.
So anyway, YES our schedule seems busy but it's really not bad, there's really no time for formal lessons, many days we're just home playing at least half of the day and playing outside some or taking a walk, then she may go to a class for an hour and then I go to work most evenings. It varies.
Anyway, I don't even really know what my question is, I guess I want to try and focus more on her particular interests, maybe a couple areas, and maybe take away others that she doesn't love like piano, etc... but I'm not sure. RIght now she's young and I think it's good for her to be exposed to different things, and she seems to like everything except piano and PE, and getting up early some mornings:)
Basically what we do is this- I try to expose her to different areas to see what she is good at and likes. So far what I can gather is that she loves art and nature/animals. I work 10 hrs a week and while I work she spends time with my grandmother or my mom- and we have a 10 month old too. I have a varied scheduled so none of our days are the same. Anyway, she takes ballet one or two times a week, which she really enjoys, some days she loves it, some days she could care less. I usually make her go to the class at least once a week, I want her to at least get through and do the recital and then see if she wants to continue. SHe loves dance so I think she will, I don't require any practice at home and she doesn't practice.
She also take piano, wanted to quit so we did for awhile, then I found a different teacher to try and we do it every other week or once a month for a 30 min lesson and I ask her to practice a couple times a week for 10 minutes. I want her to give music a try and maybe after another few months move to another instrument and see and then we can decide on stopping. Basically left up to her she wants to do nothing, and that's fine but I want her to try things enough to really get a feel for them first before quitting.
She takes a homeschool PE class once a week, she doesn't want to go but it's only 1 hr a week, free, and I think it gives her good exposure to different sports in a group= plus she's now wanting to do tennis more from learning some at the class so this is something I make her go to most weeks...
She goes to a club at our church once a week, it's like coed scouts, since we don't go to church (because I'm not a morning person) this is great for her, she does like it, she enjoys the other kids there, they read stories, do crafts, learn songs, and sometimes go on an outing, etc...
She's also in girl scouts and seems to enjoy it. We're in a homeschool coop on Friday mornings, it's large and that's where she has her girlscout meeting. I do like the coop, she has regular kids she sees every week, fun classes, school programs, fieldtrips, parties and get togethers, yearbook even, I really enjoy it. On that Friday morning she takes 3 classes- one being girl scouts, then shhe takes a social studies type class there where they read stories and do crafts related to a different country each week, then they have a recess time, a little assembly time with bible stories and songs and then she takes a science class- they do a different experiment each week. Usually afterwards we go to a mom's house where she teaches art and has a playdate, which my daughter LOVES.
Once a month we go to a garden club for an hour where she plants and does crafts, which she also loves! I also try to pick one day a month where we do something fun that she enjoys such as the zoo, the museum, the beach, St Augustine, roller skating, bowling, indoor play area, a park, etc.. Also once a month or every other month we try to go to a class they have at one of the nature centers, usually it's an hour or so and my daughter loves these. I also try to plan a couple fieldtrips every month, we do things like tour Whole Foods or the post office or a chocolate factory or an animal hospital, or we go to a play or even the circus, visit a farm, go on an overnight camping trip, or even go to Orlando and visit Sea World or another place.
So anyway, YES our schedule seems busy but it's really not bad, there's really no time for formal lessons, many days we're just home playing at least half of the day and playing outside some or taking a walk, then she may go to a class for an hour and then I go to work most evenings. It varies.
Anyway, I don't even really know what my question is, I guess I want to try and focus more on her particular interests, maybe a couple areas, and maybe take away others that she doesn't love like piano, etc... but I'm not sure. RIght now she's young and I think it's good for her to be exposed to different things, and she seems to like everything except piano and PE, and getting up early some mornings:)
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "kristi3003@..." <kristi3003@...> wrote:
If you need to "focus" find interests of your own - that could include studying learning if you like, that was something *I* found helpful when I was first wrapping my mind around unschooling and natural learning. We're pretty good at knowing what "teaching" looks like, but not how learning looks without teaching. Learning naturally looks like play! That can really throw you for a loop if you're looking for something that looks like "education".
It wouldn't hurt to step back from the idea of "exposing" her to things - I'm not saying its a horrible idea, but you don't *need* to do that for her to figure out what her likes and loves are. You can learn the same things by watching her play and seeing what she tends toward. Offer to do things with her because you think she'd find them fun - that's really enough!
You're asking her to do something a six year old can't do - developmentally can't. For a six year old, liking or disliking something is a short-term thing. Its Natural for kids to have transient likes and dislikes at this age. Its not natural for them to "learn to like" things through repetition - by "not natural" I mean that's not how their brains work. The idea that kids learn that way is one of the big myths of child development. Kids develop longer term interests naturally as they get older and their brains mature. When parents have pushed long term interests and kids happen to like them, parents think "see, you learned to like it" - its a kind of fake-out of development, we (parents) think we're more important than we are, sometimes. Without pushing, being allowed to pick things up and put them down at will, kids naturally develop longer term interests and do it at roughly the same ages as kids who were pushed. Its not the pushing that does it, its development.
What that means is you Don't Have To make her take classes if she doesn't want to do it. In fact, its just as good to look for things she can try a few times and drop so that you don't feel like you've "wasted your money" - look for classes where you can pay by the session or are cheap enough that you don't wince when she says "I don't feel like it." You won't sell her short by doing that, you'll free up more time and energy for exploratory play. Since play is how kids learn, that's a Good thing.
If you're not used to thinking this way it may seem shocking - can kids really learn what they need to know "just playing"? They can and do. Its pretty amazing, actually, and humbling to realize just how little "good" teaching does in the face of natural learning abilities.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>I'm trying to follow her lead but I guess I'm having trouble letting go of control and figuring out what to focus on...*****************
If you need to "focus" find interests of your own - that could include studying learning if you like, that was something *I* found helpful when I was first wrapping my mind around unschooling and natural learning. We're pretty good at knowing what "teaching" looks like, but not how learning looks without teaching. Learning naturally looks like play! That can really throw you for a loop if you're looking for something that looks like "education".
> Basically what we do is this- I try to expose her to different areas to see what she is good at and likes.*********************
It wouldn't hurt to step back from the idea of "exposing" her to things - I'm not saying its a horrible idea, but you don't *need* to do that for her to figure out what her likes and loves are. You can learn the same things by watching her play and seeing what she tends toward. Offer to do things with her because you think she'd find them fun - that's really enough!
>>Basically left up to her she wants to do nothing, and that's fine but I want her to try things enough to really get a feel for them first before quitting.************************
You're asking her to do something a six year old can't do - developmentally can't. For a six year old, liking or disliking something is a short-term thing. Its Natural for kids to have transient likes and dislikes at this age. Its not natural for them to "learn to like" things through repetition - by "not natural" I mean that's not how their brains work. The idea that kids learn that way is one of the big myths of child development. Kids develop longer term interests naturally as they get older and their brains mature. When parents have pushed long term interests and kids happen to like them, parents think "see, you learned to like it" - its a kind of fake-out of development, we (parents) think we're more important than we are, sometimes. Without pushing, being allowed to pick things up and put them down at will, kids naturally develop longer term interests and do it at roughly the same ages as kids who were pushed. Its not the pushing that does it, its development.
What that means is you Don't Have To make her take classes if she doesn't want to do it. In fact, its just as good to look for things she can try a few times and drop so that you don't feel like you've "wasted your money" - look for classes where you can pay by the session or are cheap enough that you don't wince when she says "I don't feel like it." You won't sell her short by doing that, you'll free up more time and energy for exploratory play. Since play is how kids learn, that's a Good thing.
>>many days we're just home playing at least half of the dayGiven that kids learn mainly through play, half a day isn't very much at all. Its okay, even beneficial for her to have long whole days of "just playing". She'll explore and discover as much that way as she will through lots of activities because that's how learning happens by nature.
If you're not used to thinking this way it may seem shocking - can kids really learn what they need to know "just playing"? They can and do. Its pretty amazing, actually, and humbling to realize just how little "good" teaching does in the face of natural learning abilities.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Faith Void
Ok so Im kind of new to unschooling, I tried lessons (workbooks) and my
daughter hates them and now I'm back to just reading to her, I read her
series books like Magic Tree House- which she LOVES- and then we'll look at
the research guide if she's interested or we'll delve into one of the topics
more if it peeks her interest, and I read Little House books and stuff like
that... anyway, I'm trying to follow her lead but I guess I'm having trouble
letting go of control and figuring out what to focus on...
***
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Basically what we do is this- I try to expose her to different areas to see
what she is good at and likes. So far what I can gather is that she loves
art and nature/animals. I work 10 hrs a week and while I work she spends
time with my grandmother or my mom- and we have a 10 month old too. I have a
varied scheduled so none of our days are the same. Anyway, she takes ballet
one or two times a week, which she really enjoys, some days she loves it,
some days she could care less. I usually make her go to the class at least
once a week, I want her to at least get through and do the recital and then
see if she wants to continue. SHe loves dance so I think she will, I don't
require any practice at home and she doesn't practice.
***Opening up a variety of options can be very helpful for some children.
I read the work "make" can that sounds like you force her. IS there options
for her? Is there room for her to have other needs? You also write that
*you* need her to get through the class and participate in a recital. Is
that her need? Perhaps she just likes dancing but not all the time. Perhaps
she has no desire to perform.
My oldest was in gymnastics. She loved it. Went each session, craved more.
She really excelled. She made pre-team in about 6 months. In a short time
they were telling her she would soon be able to be on the team. This is when
she lost interest. She had no desire to compete. It wasn't her thing. She
just loved gymnastics. So she stopped. She set gymnastics aside for a couple
years. Lately she is asking for it again. She has been free to decide for
herself how gymnastic fits into her life.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
She also take piano, wanted to quit so we did for awhile, then I found a
different teacher to try and we do it every other week or once a month for a
30 min lesson and I ask her to practice a couple times a week for 10
minutes. I want her to give music a try and maybe after another few months
move to another instrument and see and then we can decide on stopping.
Basically left up to her she wants to do nothing, and that's fine but I want
her to try things enough to really get a feel for them first before
quitting.
***How much is enough? Who decides when she has tried it enough, you or her?
I loved musical instruments when I was young. I played many. There were
several instruments I never had any interest in and several others I picked
up once or twice but they didn't resonate with me.
I am reading a lot about your wants. What does your child want for her life?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
She takes a homeschool PE class once a week, she doesn't want to go but it's
only 1 hr a week, free, and I think it gives her good exposure to different
sports in a group= plus she's now wanting to do tennis more from learning
some at the class so this is something I make her go to most weeks...
***If she doesn't want to go I am not understand why you force her. what is
your fear behind not giving her the choice?
Are there other more enjoy to her ways to expose her to more sports,
activities? I am thinking wii fit, sports etc. Videos or TV shows about
games and sports. Books or games relating to movement and sports.
Some children an adults are not team sports players. My ds loves soccer but
wouldn't like to play on a team. He just doesn't enjoy that.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
She goes to a club at our church once a week, it's like coed scouts, since
we don't go to church (because I'm not a morning person) this is great for
her, she does like it, she enjoys the other kids there, they read stories,
do crafts, learn songs, and sometimes go on an outing, etc...
***Is it something she loves and chooses to do? If so great, let her keep
going. Support that.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
She's also in girl scouts and seems to enjoy it. We're in a homeschool coop
on Friday mornings, it's large and that's where she has her girlscout
meeting. I do like the coop, she has regular kids she sees every week, fun
classes, school programs, fieldtrips, parties and get togethers, yearbook
even, I really enjoy it. On that Friday morning she takes 3 classes- one
being girl scouts, then shhe takes a social studies type class there where
they read stories and do crafts related to a different country each week,
then they have a recess time, a little assembly time with bible stories and
songs and then she takes a science class- they do a different experiment
each week. Usually afterwards we go to a mom's house where she teaches art
and has a playdate, which my daughter LOVES.
***Again, you write that You enjoy co-op, does she? Does she want to
participate in gilrscouts or social studies?
We learn everything in our lives without a structured school-like activity,
We belonged to a co-op a while back. My kids loved it at first, there were
other kids, I thought it was important that they were around other kids
regularly. eventually we came to realize that they didn't like or get
anything out of the classes. They were only continuing certain friendships
out of obligation. They didn't really like the other kids and they hated the
structure. It wasn't a good fit for us. We stopped going. We do different
things now.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Once a month we go to a garden club for an hour where she plants and does
crafts, which she also loves! I also try to pick one day a month where we do
something fun that she enjoys such as the zoo, the museum, the beach, St
Augustine, roller skating, bowling, indoor play area, a park, etc.. Also
once a month or every other month we try to go to a class they have at one
of the nature centers, usually it's an hour or so and my daughter loves
these. I also try to plan a couple fieldtrips every month, we do things like
tour Whole Foods or the post office or a chocolate factory or an animal
hospital, or we go to a play or even the circus, visit a farm, go on an
overnight camping trip, or even go to Orlando and visit Sea World or another
place.
***That's great. It sounds like she is a social kid how thrives on outings.
Instead of thinking fieldtrips it might be helpful to just think we are out
living our lives, exploring, adventuring, etc.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
So anyway, YES our schedule seems busy but it's really not bad, there's
really no time for formal lessons, many days we're just home playing at
least half of the day and playing outside some or taking a walk, then she
may go to a class for an hour and then I go to work most evenings. It
varies.
Anyway, I don't even really know what my question is, I guess I want to try
and focus more on her particular interests, maybe a couple areas, and maybe
take away others that she doesn't love like piano, etc... but I'm not sure.
RIght now she's young and I think it's good for her to be exposed to
different things, and she seems to like everything except piano and PE, and
getting up early some mornings:)
***Following her lead would mean letting go of the things that you want that
she doesn't want. It might mean playing more and structure less. Childhood
is about play. Play is learning. I learn by playing, though my play may look
different than a small child's. We are a family of adventurers, explorers
and cavorting spirits. We play and laugh and learn and live. By allowing my
children the space to be who they are they find their path. Not mine.
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
daughter hates them and now I'm back to just reading to her, I read her
series books like Magic Tree House- which she LOVES- and then we'll look at
the research guide if she's interested or we'll delve into one of the topics
more if it peeks her interest, and I read Little House books and stuff like
that... anyway, I'm trying to follow her lead but I guess I'm having trouble
letting go of control and figuring out what to focus on...
***
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Basically what we do is this- I try to expose her to different areas to see
what she is good at and likes. So far what I can gather is that she loves
art and nature/animals. I work 10 hrs a week and while I work she spends
time with my grandmother or my mom- and we have a 10 month old too. I have a
varied scheduled so none of our days are the same. Anyway, she takes ballet
one or two times a week, which she really enjoys, some days she loves it,
some days she could care less. I usually make her go to the class at least
once a week, I want her to at least get through and do the recital and then
see if she wants to continue. SHe loves dance so I think she will, I don't
require any practice at home and she doesn't practice.
***Opening up a variety of options can be very helpful for some children.
I read the work "make" can that sounds like you force her. IS there options
for her? Is there room for her to have other needs? You also write that
*you* need her to get through the class and participate in a recital. Is
that her need? Perhaps she just likes dancing but not all the time. Perhaps
she has no desire to perform.
My oldest was in gymnastics. She loved it. Went each session, craved more.
She really excelled. She made pre-team in about 6 months. In a short time
they were telling her she would soon be able to be on the team. This is when
she lost interest. She had no desire to compete. It wasn't her thing. She
just loved gymnastics. So she stopped. She set gymnastics aside for a couple
years. Lately she is asking for it again. She has been free to decide for
herself how gymnastic fits into her life.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
She also take piano, wanted to quit so we did for awhile, then I found a
different teacher to try and we do it every other week or once a month for a
30 min lesson and I ask her to practice a couple times a week for 10
minutes. I want her to give music a try and maybe after another few months
move to another instrument and see and then we can decide on stopping.
Basically left up to her she wants to do nothing, and that's fine but I want
her to try things enough to really get a feel for them first before
quitting.
***How much is enough? Who decides when she has tried it enough, you or her?
I loved musical instruments when I was young. I played many. There were
several instruments I never had any interest in and several others I picked
up once or twice but they didn't resonate with me.
I am reading a lot about your wants. What does your child want for her life?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
She takes a homeschool PE class once a week, she doesn't want to go but it's
only 1 hr a week, free, and I think it gives her good exposure to different
sports in a group= plus she's now wanting to do tennis more from learning
some at the class so this is something I make her go to most weeks...
***If she doesn't want to go I am not understand why you force her. what is
your fear behind not giving her the choice?
Are there other more enjoy to her ways to expose her to more sports,
activities? I am thinking wii fit, sports etc. Videos or TV shows about
games and sports. Books or games relating to movement and sports.
Some children an adults are not team sports players. My ds loves soccer but
wouldn't like to play on a team. He just doesn't enjoy that.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
She goes to a club at our church once a week, it's like coed scouts, since
we don't go to church (because I'm not a morning person) this is great for
her, she does like it, she enjoys the other kids there, they read stories,
do crafts, learn songs, and sometimes go on an outing, etc...
***Is it something she loves and chooses to do? If so great, let her keep
going. Support that.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
She's also in girl scouts and seems to enjoy it. We're in a homeschool coop
on Friday mornings, it's large and that's where she has her girlscout
meeting. I do like the coop, she has regular kids she sees every week, fun
classes, school programs, fieldtrips, parties and get togethers, yearbook
even, I really enjoy it. On that Friday morning she takes 3 classes- one
being girl scouts, then shhe takes a social studies type class there where
they read stories and do crafts related to a different country each week,
then they have a recess time, a little assembly time with bible stories and
songs and then she takes a science class- they do a different experiment
each week. Usually afterwards we go to a mom's house where she teaches art
and has a playdate, which my daughter LOVES.
***Again, you write that You enjoy co-op, does she? Does she want to
participate in gilrscouts or social studies?
We learn everything in our lives without a structured school-like activity,
We belonged to a co-op a while back. My kids loved it at first, there were
other kids, I thought it was important that they were around other kids
regularly. eventually we came to realize that they didn't like or get
anything out of the classes. They were only continuing certain friendships
out of obligation. They didn't really like the other kids and they hated the
structure. It wasn't a good fit for us. We stopped going. We do different
things now.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Once a month we go to a garden club for an hour where she plants and does
crafts, which she also loves! I also try to pick one day a month where we do
something fun that she enjoys such as the zoo, the museum, the beach, St
Augustine, roller skating, bowling, indoor play area, a park, etc.. Also
once a month or every other month we try to go to a class they have at one
of the nature centers, usually it's an hour or so and my daughter loves
these. I also try to plan a couple fieldtrips every month, we do things like
tour Whole Foods or the post office or a chocolate factory or an animal
hospital, or we go to a play or even the circus, visit a farm, go on an
overnight camping trip, or even go to Orlando and visit Sea World or another
place.
***That's great. It sounds like she is a social kid how thrives on outings.
Instead of thinking fieldtrips it might be helpful to just think we are out
living our lives, exploring, adventuring, etc.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
So anyway, YES our schedule seems busy but it's really not bad, there's
really no time for formal lessons, many days we're just home playing at
least half of the day and playing outside some or taking a walk, then she
may go to a class for an hour and then I go to work most evenings. It
varies.
Anyway, I don't even really know what my question is, I guess I want to try
and focus more on her particular interests, maybe a couple areas, and maybe
take away others that she doesn't love like piano, etc... but I'm not sure.
RIght now she's young and I think it's good for her to be exposed to
different things, and she seems to like everything except piano and PE, and
getting up early some mornings:)
***Following her lead would mean letting go of the things that you want that
she doesn't want. It might mean playing more and structure less. Childhood
is about play. Play is learning. I learn by playing, though my play may look
different than a small child's. We are a family of adventurers, explorers
and cavorting spirits. We play and laugh and learn and live. By allowing my
children the space to be who they are they find their path. Not mine.
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
THat's a good idea, I have no interests of my own at the moment, my hobby literally is my children and homeschooling!
Ok so I'm trying to figure out the classes to drop, for one she really doesn't LOVE piano but usually when I ask if she wants to quit it completely she says no... so I try to do it once or twice a month at most, this teacher is super flexible, she charged us $8 per lesson if we bought 20 lessons. We have about 10 more or so to go right now...
Ballet- she doesn't want to quit but doesn't like going all the time, this is one I have to pay monthly (actually I pay quartly because I get a discount), but I already paid for the recital and costume... she just doesn't like to go every week but she kind of needs to because of the recital...... that's a toughie, just trying to figure out what to push her to stick with that needs to meet weekly or reguarly and want not...
PE they do a different sport each month which is good but you acn't come just once a month is their policy,...
So I'm trying to figure out what to do then, basically here's our week:
Mon- some times I work from 11-1- she's with grandma, if I dont' work we're just home playing, she has ballet at 3:30 for an hr and then I go to work until 8, she's home with daddy
Tues- she plays for a little bit, has PE for an hour, then every other week she sees her therapist (she has selective mutism- which is another reason I do need to keep her in some regular social groups like our coop.....), anyway then usually we come home, play and then I go to work from 4-8
Wed- usually she takes a ballet class for an hr then plays in the park for 30 min, then we go to the library for awhile, every other week or so is piano, if not then more park time and then we go home or run errands, play, cook, I read to her, etc, and then she goes to church club in the evening
Thurs sometimes I work half day and she's with grandma, if I don't work then we go on a fieldtrip or outting, this is either an all day thing or a few hrs and then we come back home and play and get ready for bed, once a month is her garden club meeting
Fri is coop and girl scouts until noon, then we have lunch, go to her art class/playdate for a couple hrs and then I go to work in the evening.
Sat sometimes I work half day or we go to church or visit with inlaws or go do something fun or she plays with the neighbors
Sun we clean up, sometimes I work a few hrs, she plays with the neighbors or we go out and do something or just stay home and play...
Ok so I'm trying to figure out the classes to drop, for one she really doesn't LOVE piano but usually when I ask if she wants to quit it completely she says no... so I try to do it once or twice a month at most, this teacher is super flexible, she charged us $8 per lesson if we bought 20 lessons. We have about 10 more or so to go right now...
Ballet- she doesn't want to quit but doesn't like going all the time, this is one I have to pay monthly (actually I pay quartly because I get a discount), but I already paid for the recital and costume... she just doesn't like to go every week but she kind of needs to because of the recital...... that's a toughie, just trying to figure out what to push her to stick with that needs to meet weekly or reguarly and want not...
PE they do a different sport each month which is good but you acn't come just once a month is their policy,...
So I'm trying to figure out what to do then, basically here's our week:
Mon- some times I work from 11-1- she's with grandma, if I dont' work we're just home playing, she has ballet at 3:30 for an hr and then I go to work until 8, she's home with daddy
Tues- she plays for a little bit, has PE for an hour, then every other week she sees her therapist (she has selective mutism- which is another reason I do need to keep her in some regular social groups like our coop.....), anyway then usually we come home, play and then I go to work from 4-8
Wed- usually she takes a ballet class for an hr then plays in the park for 30 min, then we go to the library for awhile, every other week or so is piano, if not then more park time and then we go home or run errands, play, cook, I read to her, etc, and then she goes to church club in the evening
Thurs sometimes I work half day and she's with grandma, if I don't work then we go on a fieldtrip or outting, this is either an all day thing or a few hrs and then we come back home and play and get ready for bed, once a month is her garden club meeting
Fri is coop and girl scouts until noon, then we have lunch, go to her art class/playdate for a couple hrs and then I go to work in the evening.
Sat sometimes I work half day or we go to church or visit with inlaws or go do something fun or she plays with the neighbors
Sun we clean up, sometimes I work a few hrs, she plays with the neighbors or we go out and do something or just stay home and play...
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <meredith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "kristi3003@" <kristi3003@> wrote:
> >I'm trying to follow her lead but I guess I'm having trouble letting go of control and figuring out what to focus on...
> *****************
>
> If you need to "focus" find interests of your own - that could include studying learning if you like, that was something *I* found helpful when I was first wrapping my mind around unschooling and natural learning. We're pretty good at knowing what "teaching" looks like, but not how learning looks without teaching. Learning naturally looks like play! That can really throw you for a loop if you're looking for something that looks like "education".
>
> > Basically what we do is this- I try to expose her to different areas to see what she is good at and likes.
> *********************
>
> It wouldn't hurt to step back from the idea of "exposing" her to things - I'm not saying its a horrible idea, but you don't *need* to do that for her to figure out what her likes and loves are. You can learn the same things by watching her play and seeing what she tends toward. Offer to do things with her because you think she'd find them fun - that's really enough!
>
> >>Basically left up to her she wants to do nothing, and that's fine but I want her to try things enough to really get a feel for them first before quitting.
> ************************
>
> You're asking her to do something a six year old can't do - developmentally can't. For a six year old, liking or disliking something is a short-term thing. Its Natural for kids to have transient likes and dislikes at this age. Its not natural for them to "learn to like" things through repetition - by "not natural" I mean that's not how their brains work. The idea that kids learn that way is one of the big myths of child development. Kids develop longer term interests naturally as they get older and their brains mature. When parents have pushed long term interests and kids happen to like them, parents think "see, you learned to like it" - its a kind of fake-out of development, we (parents) think we're more important than we are, sometimes. Without pushing, being allowed to pick things up and put them down at will, kids naturally develop longer term interests and do it at roughly the same ages as kids who were pushed. Its not the pushing that does it, its development.
>
> What that means is you Don't Have To make her take classes if she doesn't want to do it. In fact, its just as good to look for things she can try a few times and drop so that you don't feel like you've "wasted your money" - look for classes where you can pay by the session or are cheap enough that you don't wince when she says "I don't feel like it." You won't sell her short by doing that, you'll free up more time and energy for exploratory play. Since play is how kids learn, that's a Good thing.
>
> >>many days we're just home playing at least half of the day
>
> Given that kids learn mainly through play, half a day isn't very much at all. Its okay, even beneficial for her to have long whole days of "just playing". She'll explore and discover as much that way as she will through lots of activities because that's how learning happens by nature.
>
> If you're not used to thinking this way it may seem shocking - can kids really learn what they need to know "just playing"? They can and do. Its pretty amazing, actually, and humbling to realize just how little "good" teaching does in the face of natural learning abilities.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>
[email protected]
I guess the main thing is I don' tknow what she does and doesn't want to do sometimes, I know she loves animals and nature and arts and crafts and outings....... I have asked her if she wants to quit certain classes and she always says no, just that she doesn't want to go to them every week...... I've tried that though say with piano, I said ok lets skip this week, do you want to wait and go back next week, she said yes, next week comes, same thing- can we skip for another week, and so on...
And I get that, I'm all for following their lead and their wants and needs and dreams, but what about reality, not everyone will get their dream job or even want to do it everyday, I LOVE My job, but many days I don't want to be there, but I can't just tell my clients- sorry, I'm cancelling everyone today, that's just not life.. if she commits to a class then some of these classes do meet once a week and she can't just show up once a month........
And I get that, I'm all for following their lead and their wants and needs and dreams, but what about reality, not everyone will get their dream job or even want to do it everyday, I LOVE My job, but many days I don't want to be there, but I can't just tell my clients- sorry, I'm cancelling everyone today, that's just not life.. if she commits to a class then some of these classes do meet once a week and she can't just show up once a month........
--- In [email protected], Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>
> Ok so Im kind of new to unschooling, I tried lessons (workbooks) and my
> daughter hates them and now I'm back to just reading to her, I read her
> series books like Magic Tree House- which she LOVES- and then we'll look at
> the research guide if she's interested or we'll delve into one of the topics
> more if it peeks her interest, and I read Little House books and stuff like
> that... anyway, I'm trying to follow her lead but I guess I'm having trouble
> letting go of control and figuring out what to focus on...
>
> ***
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> Basically what we do is this- I try to expose her to different areas to see
> what she is good at and likes. So far what I can gather is that she loves
> art and nature/animals. I work 10 hrs a week and while I work she spends
> time with my grandmother or my mom- and we have a 10 month old too. I have a
> varied scheduled so none of our days are the same. Anyway, she takes ballet
> one or two times a week, which she really enjoys, some days she loves it,
> some days she could care less. I usually make her go to the class at least
> once a week, I want her to at least get through and do the recital and then
> see if she wants to continue. SHe loves dance so I think she will, I don't
> require any practice at home and she doesn't practice.
>
> ***Opening up a variety of options can be very helpful for some children.
>
> I read the work "make" can that sounds like you force her. IS there options
> for her? Is there room for her to have other needs? You also write that
> *you* need her to get through the class and participate in a recital. Is
> that her need? Perhaps she just likes dancing but not all the time. Perhaps
> she has no desire to perform.
>
> My oldest was in gymnastics. She loved it. Went each session, craved more.
> She really excelled. She made pre-team in about 6 months. In a short time
> they were telling her she would soon be able to be on the team. This is when
> she lost interest. She had no desire to compete. It wasn't her thing. She
> just loved gymnastics. So she stopped. She set gymnastics aside for a couple
> years. Lately she is asking for it again. She has been free to decide for
> herself how gymnastic fits into her life.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> She also take piano, wanted to quit so we did for awhile, then I found a
> different teacher to try and we do it every other week or once a month for a
> 30 min lesson and I ask her to practice a couple times a week for 10
> minutes. I want her to give music a try and maybe after another few months
> move to another instrument and see and then we can decide on stopping.
> Basically left up to her she wants to do nothing, and that's fine but I want
> her to try things enough to really get a feel for them first before
> quitting.
>
> ***How much is enough? Who decides when she has tried it enough, you or her?
>
>
> I loved musical instruments when I was young. I played many. There were
> several instruments I never had any interest in and several others I picked
> up once or twice but they didn't resonate with me.
>
> I am reading a lot about your wants. What does your child want for her life?
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> She takes a homeschool PE class once a week, she doesn't want to go but it's
> only 1 hr a week, free, and I think it gives her good exposure to different
> sports in a group= plus she's now wanting to do tennis more from learning
> some at the class so this is something I make her go to most weeks...
>
> ***If she doesn't want to go I am not understand why you force her. what is
> your fear behind not giving her the choice?
>
> Are there other more enjoy to her ways to expose her to more sports,
> activities? I am thinking wii fit, sports etc. Videos or TV shows about
> games and sports. Books or games relating to movement and sports.
>
> Some children an adults are not team sports players. My ds loves soccer but
> wouldn't like to play on a team. He just doesn't enjoy that.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> She goes to a club at our church once a week, it's like coed scouts, since
> we don't go to church (because I'm not a morning person) this is great for
> her, she does like it, she enjoys the other kids there, they read stories,
> do crafts, learn songs, and sometimes go on an outing, etc...
>
> ***Is it something she loves and chooses to do? If so great, let her keep
> going. Support that.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> She's also in girl scouts and seems to enjoy it. We're in a homeschool coop
> on Friday mornings, it's large and that's where she has her girlscout
> meeting. I do like the coop, she has regular kids she sees every week, fun
> classes, school programs, fieldtrips, parties and get togethers, yearbook
> even, I really enjoy it. On that Friday morning she takes 3 classes- one
> being girl scouts, then shhe takes a social studies type class there where
> they read stories and do crafts related to a different country each week,
> then they have a recess time, a little assembly time with bible stories and
> songs and then she takes a science class- they do a different experiment
> each week. Usually afterwards we go to a mom's house where she teaches art
> and has a playdate, which my daughter LOVES.
>
> ***Again, you write that You enjoy co-op, does she? Does she want to
> participate in gilrscouts or social studies?
>
> We learn everything in our lives without a structured school-like activity,
> We belonged to a co-op a while back. My kids loved it at first, there were
> other kids, I thought it was important that they were around other kids
> regularly. eventually we came to realize that they didn't like or get
> anything out of the classes. They were only continuing certain friendships
> out of obligation. They didn't really like the other kids and they hated the
> structure. It wasn't a good fit for us. We stopped going. We do different
> things now.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> Once a month we go to a garden club for an hour where she plants and does
> crafts, which she also loves! I also try to pick one day a month where we do
> something fun that she enjoys such as the zoo, the museum, the beach, St
> Augustine, roller skating, bowling, indoor play area, a park, etc.. Also
> once a month or every other month we try to go to a class they have at one
> of the nature centers, usually it's an hour or so and my daughter loves
> these. I also try to plan a couple fieldtrips every month, we do things like
> tour Whole Foods or the post office or a chocolate factory or an animal
> hospital, or we go to a play or even the circus, visit a farm, go on an
> overnight camping trip, or even go to Orlando and visit Sea World or another
> place.
>
> ***That's great. It sounds like she is a social kid how thrives on outings.
> Instead of thinking fieldtrips it might be helpful to just think we are out
> living our lives, exploring, adventuring, etc.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> So anyway, YES our schedule seems busy but it's really not bad, there's
> really no time for formal lessons, many days we're just home playing at
> least half of the day and playing outside some or taking a walk, then she
> may go to a class for an hour and then I go to work most evenings. It
> varies.
>
> Anyway, I don't even really know what my question is, I guess I want to try
> and focus more on her particular interests, maybe a couple areas, and maybe
> take away others that she doesn't love like piano, etc... but I'm not sure.
> RIght now she's young and I think it's good for her to be exposed to
> different things, and she seems to like everything except piano and PE, and
> getting up early some mornings:)
>
> ***Following her lead would mean letting go of the things that you want that
> she doesn't want. It might mean playing more and structure less. Childhood
> is about play. Play is learning. I learn by playing, though my play may look
> different than a small child's. We are a family of adventurers, explorers
> and cavorting spirits. We play and laugh and learn and live. By allowing my
> children the space to be who they are they find their path. Not mine.
>
> Faith
>
>
> --
> http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
> www.bearthmama.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
Another example is her art class, she LOVES art, but sometime she'll say she doesn't want to go, she'll do it right before we have to leave, she won't say why, just really that she doesn't want to stop playing, etc.... I tell her that unless she's sick we can't just call this mom at the last minute and cancel because my dd doesn't feel like coming today, that's rude, so anyway we go, and after a few min she's into loving the art and when it's time to go she begs me to let her stay a few hrs longer... she does this with many things
Also our coop, she needs it, because of the selective mutism, she needs something that is routine with the same kids and adults weekly, this is part of her therapy. She does enjoy it she just hates getting up early to go to it the one day a week but once we get there she loves being there and enjoys everything they do.
Also our coop, she needs it, because of the selective mutism, she needs something that is routine with the same kids and adults weekly, this is part of her therapy. She does enjoy it she just hates getting up early to go to it the one day a week but once we get there she loves being there and enjoys everything they do.
--- In [email protected], Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>
> Ok so Im kind of new to unschooling, I tried lessons (workbooks) and my
> daughter hates them and now I'm back to just reading to her, I read her
> series books like Magic Tree House- which she LOVES- and then we'll look at
> the research guide if she's interested or we'll delve into one of the topics
> more if it peeks her interest, and I read Little House books and stuff like
> that... anyway, I'm trying to follow her lead but I guess I'm having trouble
> letting go of control and figuring out what to focus on...
>
> ***
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> Basically what we do is this- I try to expose her to different areas to see
> what she is good at and likes. So far what I can gather is that she loves
> art and nature/animals. I work 10 hrs a week and while I work she spends
> time with my grandmother or my mom- and we have a 10 month old too. I have a
> varied scheduled so none of our days are the same. Anyway, she takes ballet
> one or two times a week, which she really enjoys, some days she loves it,
> some days she could care less. I usually make her go to the class at least
> once a week, I want her to at least get through and do the recital and then
> see if she wants to continue. SHe loves dance so I think she will, I don't
> require any practice at home and she doesn't practice.
>
> ***Opening up a variety of options can be very helpful for some children.
>
> I read the work "make" can that sounds like you force her. IS there options
> for her? Is there room for her to have other needs? You also write that
> *you* need her to get through the class and participate in a recital. Is
> that her need? Perhaps she just likes dancing but not all the time. Perhaps
> she has no desire to perform.
>
> My oldest was in gymnastics. She loved it. Went each session, craved more.
> She really excelled. She made pre-team in about 6 months. In a short time
> they were telling her she would soon be able to be on the team. This is when
> she lost interest. She had no desire to compete. It wasn't her thing. She
> just loved gymnastics. So she stopped. She set gymnastics aside for a couple
> years. Lately she is asking for it again. She has been free to decide for
> herself how gymnastic fits into her life.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> She also take piano, wanted to quit so we did for awhile, then I found a
> different teacher to try and we do it every other week or once a month for a
> 30 min lesson and I ask her to practice a couple times a week for 10
> minutes. I want her to give music a try and maybe after another few months
> move to another instrument and see and then we can decide on stopping.
> Basically left up to her she wants to do nothing, and that's fine but I want
> her to try things enough to really get a feel for them first before
> quitting.
>
> ***How much is enough? Who decides when she has tried it enough, you or her?
>
>
> I loved musical instruments when I was young. I played many. There were
> several instruments I never had any interest in and several others I picked
> up once or twice but they didn't resonate with me.
>
> I am reading a lot about your wants. What does your child want for her life?
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> She takes a homeschool PE class once a week, she doesn't want to go but it's
> only 1 hr a week, free, and I think it gives her good exposure to different
> sports in a group= plus she's now wanting to do tennis more from learning
> some at the class so this is something I make her go to most weeks...
>
> ***If she doesn't want to go I am not understand why you force her. what is
> your fear behind not giving her the choice?
>
> Are there other more enjoy to her ways to expose her to more sports,
> activities? I am thinking wii fit, sports etc. Videos or TV shows about
> games and sports. Books or games relating to movement and sports.
>
> Some children an adults are not team sports players. My ds loves soccer but
> wouldn't like to play on a team. He just doesn't enjoy that.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> She goes to a club at our church once a week, it's like coed scouts, since
> we don't go to church (because I'm not a morning person) this is great for
> her, she does like it, she enjoys the other kids there, they read stories,
> do crafts, learn songs, and sometimes go on an outing, etc...
>
> ***Is it something she loves and chooses to do? If so great, let her keep
> going. Support that.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> She's also in girl scouts and seems to enjoy it. We're in a homeschool coop
> on Friday mornings, it's large and that's where she has her girlscout
> meeting. I do like the coop, she has regular kids she sees every week, fun
> classes, school programs, fieldtrips, parties and get togethers, yearbook
> even, I really enjoy it. On that Friday morning she takes 3 classes- one
> being girl scouts, then shhe takes a social studies type class there where
> they read stories and do crafts related to a different country each week,
> then they have a recess time, a little assembly time with bible stories and
> songs and then she takes a science class- they do a different experiment
> each week. Usually afterwards we go to a mom's house where she teaches art
> and has a playdate, which my daughter LOVES.
>
> ***Again, you write that You enjoy co-op, does she? Does she want to
> participate in gilrscouts or social studies?
>
> We learn everything in our lives without a structured school-like activity,
> We belonged to a co-op a while back. My kids loved it at first, there were
> other kids, I thought it was important that they were around other kids
> regularly. eventually we came to realize that they didn't like or get
> anything out of the classes. They were only continuing certain friendships
> out of obligation. They didn't really like the other kids and they hated the
> structure. It wasn't a good fit for us. We stopped going. We do different
> things now.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> Once a month we go to a garden club for an hour where she plants and does
> crafts, which she also loves! I also try to pick one day a month where we do
> something fun that she enjoys such as the zoo, the museum, the beach, St
> Augustine, roller skating, bowling, indoor play area, a park, etc.. Also
> once a month or every other month we try to go to a class they have at one
> of the nature centers, usually it's an hour or so and my daughter loves
> these. I also try to plan a couple fieldtrips every month, we do things like
> tour Whole Foods or the post office or a chocolate factory or an animal
> hospital, or we go to a play or even the circus, visit a farm, go on an
> overnight camping trip, or even go to Orlando and visit Sea World or another
> place.
>
> ***That's great. It sounds like she is a social kid how thrives on outings.
> Instead of thinking fieldtrips it might be helpful to just think we are out
> living our lives, exploring, adventuring, etc.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> So anyway, YES our schedule seems busy but it's really not bad, there's
> really no time for formal lessons, many days we're just home playing at
> least half of the day and playing outside some or taking a walk, then she
> may go to a class for an hour and then I go to work most evenings. It
> varies.
>
> Anyway, I don't even really know what my question is, I guess I want to try
> and focus more on her particular interests, maybe a couple areas, and maybe
> take away others that she doesn't love like piano, etc... but I'm not sure.
> RIght now she's young and I think it's good for her to be exposed to
> different things, and she seems to like everything except piano and PE, and
> getting up early some mornings:)
>
> ***Following her lead would mean letting go of the things that you want that
> she doesn't want. It might mean playing more and structure less. Childhood
> is about play. Play is learning. I learn by playing, though my play may look
> different than a small child's. We are a family of adventurers, explorers
> and cavorting spirits. We play and laugh and learn and live. By allowing my
> children the space to be who they are they find their path. Not mine.
>
> Faith
>
>
> --
> http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
> www.bearthmama.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Lyla Wolfenstein
Also our coop, she needs it, because of the selective mutism, she needs something that is routine with the same kids and adults weekly, this is part of her therapy. She does enjoy it she just hates getting up early to go to it the one day a week but once we get there she loves being there and enjoys everything they do.
******************
it sounds like you've been told she "needs" it, but selective mutism is, if i understand correctly, linked to social anxiety. in my experience, the *most effective* approach to ANY kind of anxiety is, as with all things unschooling, follow the child's lead and TRUST. that doesn't mean never being in social situations, or never doing anything, but it does mean *stop* looking at what they will be or do when they are adults with jobs, stop labeling them with "special needs" that are broadly applied to any kid with a certain "issue" and start looking AT the individual child. a 6 year old does not need to be preparing for a job. especially not for a job she might not want to go to some days. she's 6.
i'd relax and back off on classes and find some way to have *options* for doing the things she enjoys, that are truly options, and where she has a true choice, day to day, or even hour to hour, on whether to go. why is it rude to not go to an art class? she's the "consumer".
the biggest mistakes i made with my son were around issues of "commitments" and social obligations. it has taken a lot of effort to UNDO the damage done from forcing followthrough on things, and get to a place where he will try new things because he trusts he will be allowed to choose for himself whether and when to go back. he's 11 now.
i urge you to look at your child TODAY, in each moment, and choose the next thing to do, in that moment, based on what she is saying, doing and wanting.
there are some good links on followthrough on www.joyfullyrejoycing.com - called "what if my child wants to quit something?" and a few others...
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
******************
it sounds like you've been told she "needs" it, but selective mutism is, if i understand correctly, linked to social anxiety. in my experience, the *most effective* approach to ANY kind of anxiety is, as with all things unschooling, follow the child's lead and TRUST. that doesn't mean never being in social situations, or never doing anything, but it does mean *stop* looking at what they will be or do when they are adults with jobs, stop labeling them with "special needs" that are broadly applied to any kid with a certain "issue" and start looking AT the individual child. a 6 year old does not need to be preparing for a job. especially not for a job she might not want to go to some days. she's 6.
i'd relax and back off on classes and find some way to have *options* for doing the things she enjoys, that are truly options, and where she has a true choice, day to day, or even hour to hour, on whether to go. why is it rude to not go to an art class? she's the "consumer".
the biggest mistakes i made with my son were around issues of "commitments" and social obligations. it has taken a lot of effort to UNDO the damage done from forcing followthrough on things, and get to a place where he will try new things because he trusts he will be allowed to choose for himself whether and when to go back. he's 11 now.
i urge you to look at your child TODAY, in each moment, and choose the next thing to do, in that moment, based on what she is saying, doing and wanting.
there are some good links on followthrough on www.joyfullyrejoycing.com - called "what if my child wants to quit something?" and a few others...
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lalow66
I love movies, but I wouldn't ALWAYS want to go to one if I was told I had to go once a week. Somedays I might just feel like staying home and watching one at home, or have a cup of coffee with a friend. But if I were dragged to one, I would likely enjoy it well enough cause I would rather enjoy what I am doing than sit and be miserable.
Faith Void
I guess the main thing is I don't know what she does and doesn't want to do
sometimes, I know she loves animals and nature and arts and crafts and
outings....... I have asked her if she wants to quit certain classes and she
always says no, just that she doesn't want to go to them every week......
I've tried that though say with piano, I said ok lets skip this week, do you
want to wait and go back next week, she said yes, next week comes, same
thing- can we skip for another week, and so on...
***There are many other ways to met children's needs and interests without
classes. If she loves animals take her to the zoo, pet store, animal
shelter, get a small animal that you are willing to care for, have books and
videos about animals all around. If she loves arts and crafts have them
available. Go to crafts at the library or craft store where there is no
requirements. Have informal craft meet ups with friends. Buy an inexpensive
keyboard instead of piano lessons, or have a variety of instruments around.
For sports, try rec centers that offer informal games with little to no
commitments. Or just play sports with her, even invite friends to play.
Consider being more flexible with her going to class or not. If she
consistently doesn't want to go I would take that as a sign that she isn't
interested right now. Find alternatives. Your life seems really busy and
scheduled. perhaps she wants more free time.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
And I get that, I'm all for following their lead and their wants and needs
and dreams, but what about reality, not everyone will get their dream job or
even want to do it everyday, I LOVE My job, but many days I don't want to be
there, but I can't just tell my clients- sorry, I'm cancelling everyone
today, that's just not life.. if she commits to a class then some of these
classes do meet once a week and she can't just show up once a month........
***Everyone who wants to can have their dream job. Or at least will find a
job they love enough to choose to make it work. You do have the freedom to
quit at any point you want. You understand the consequences and choose not
to skip work. You are likely over 25, she is 6. A 6 week commitment is a
huge amount of time for her.
If she is not able to commit then step back. She is a little child. Let her
be a little child. She will have many years ahead to mature into that.
There is a really good book called "Child's Work" By Nancy Wallace
http://www.amazon.com/Childs-Work-Childrens-Choices-Seriously/dp/091367706X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266201597&sr=1-2
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sometimes, I know she loves animals and nature and arts and crafts and
outings....... I have asked her if she wants to quit certain classes and she
always says no, just that she doesn't want to go to them every week......
I've tried that though say with piano, I said ok lets skip this week, do you
want to wait and go back next week, she said yes, next week comes, same
thing- can we skip for another week, and so on...
***There are many other ways to met children's needs and interests without
classes. If she loves animals take her to the zoo, pet store, animal
shelter, get a small animal that you are willing to care for, have books and
videos about animals all around. If she loves arts and crafts have them
available. Go to crafts at the library or craft store where there is no
requirements. Have informal craft meet ups with friends. Buy an inexpensive
keyboard instead of piano lessons, or have a variety of instruments around.
For sports, try rec centers that offer informal games with little to no
commitments. Or just play sports with her, even invite friends to play.
Consider being more flexible with her going to class or not. If she
consistently doesn't want to go I would take that as a sign that she isn't
interested right now. Find alternatives. Your life seems really busy and
scheduled. perhaps she wants more free time.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
And I get that, I'm all for following their lead and their wants and needs
and dreams, but what about reality, not everyone will get their dream job or
even want to do it everyday, I LOVE My job, but many days I don't want to be
there, but I can't just tell my clients- sorry, I'm cancelling everyone
today, that's just not life.. if she commits to a class then some of these
classes do meet once a week and she can't just show up once a month........
***Everyone who wants to can have their dream job. Or at least will find a
job they love enough to choose to make it work. You do have the freedom to
quit at any point you want. You understand the consequences and choose not
to skip work. You are likely over 25, she is 6. A 6 week commitment is a
huge amount of time for her.
If she is not able to commit then step back. She is a little child. Let her
be a little child. She will have many years ahead to mature into that.
There is a really good book called "Child's Work" By Nancy Wallace
http://www.amazon.com/Childs-Work-Childrens-Choices-Seriously/dp/091367706X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266201597&sr=1-2
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
because of the selective mutism,
***this is so wonderful that you have stumbled onto unschooling. When we
live in partnership with our children we can met all their quirks by
creating settings that work for them. You don't have to force her to conform
to social standards that don't work for her. You can be free to select only
the places and people that she is comfortable around. If she is
uncomfortable in a social setting you can lovingly remove her. By giving her
the power to decide where and when she feels social she can retain her
autonomy and alleviate a lot of anxiety!
Many of us on here have children that are atypical in one way or another. We
have all found ways to create a way of life that works with our child's
strengths and allows them space to grow and work through and needs and
issues they may have.
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***this is so wonderful that you have stumbled onto unschooling. When we
live in partnership with our children we can met all their quirks by
creating settings that work for them. You don't have to force her to conform
to social standards that don't work for her. You can be free to select only
the places and people that she is comfortable around. If she is
uncomfortable in a social setting you can lovingly remove her. By giving her
the power to decide where and when she feels social she can retain her
autonomy and alleviate a lot of anxiety!
Many of us on here have children that are atypical in one way or another. We
have all found ways to create a way of life that works with our child's
strengths and allows them space to grow and work through and needs and
issues they may have.
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenna Robertson
Does your daughter enjoy being so busy?
I'm struck by how young she is and how much she is doing. She has a life time to learn and grow and explore her interests. Is all the going and doing because it brings joy to her life, or because it makes you feel like a good mother? Is she doing it because she enjoys it or to please you? Some kids love to go and do and be around other people. However, at the age of 6 most kids I know are happy to play and play and play some more w/ an outing now and then for fun.
To me the bottom line is "How is your relationship with your daughter?" Do you laugh and smile and love life together? Does life feel light and easy? or Does life feel frustrating, filled with small (or large) battles, arguments or hurt feelings? When ever I try and take control of my kids, when I'm pushing my agenda or not respecting their hearts' desires, I can tell because some one ends up in tears (them or me or both!) or yelling. When I stay present and open with them life is beyond better.
:)
Jenna
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm struck by how young she is and how much she is doing. She has a life time to learn and grow and explore her interests. Is all the going and doing because it brings joy to her life, or because it makes you feel like a good mother? Is she doing it because she enjoys it or to please you? Some kids love to go and do and be around other people. However, at the age of 6 most kids I know are happy to play and play and play some more w/ an outing now and then for fun.
To me the bottom line is "How is your relationship with your daughter?" Do you laugh and smile and love life together? Does life feel light and easy? or Does life feel frustrating, filled with small (or large) battles, arguments or hurt feelings? When ever I try and take control of my kids, when I'm pushing my agenda or not respecting their hearts' desires, I can tell because some one ends up in tears (them or me or both!) or yelling. When I stay present and open with them life is beyond better.
:)
Jenna
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 14, 2010, at 8:30 PM, kristi3003@... wrote:
of them. It could be that she's picking up on the idea that the best
way to do something is to take a class and to empower her *and* you
in exploring the world, that would be a good idea to let go of.
Classes are *one* way of exploring something but shouldn't be at the
top of your list. For instance, if you'd like to expose her to dance,
put on some music and dance :-) Add in some scarves. Add in some
bells for wrists and ankles. Have fun with it. There are undoubtedly
some 6 yos who love the formality of ballet, but for most, it's far
better for them to move to the music. Put on videos of people dancing
and dance with them. It's how dance has traditionally been passed on:
people danced and kids copied as the mood struck them. It's
unfortunate that we don't live in communities where people are
regularly dancing, but with the power of video we can get close :-)
If her reluctance is more about difficulties transitioning, this
might help:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling%20in%20action/transitions.html
But at this point, with her saying she doesn't want to go so often,
I'd put off any more commitments and wait until she asks for classes.
It could be she's on the way to class burn out.
keep taking it because you'd paid for it?
Paid for lessons (or costumes) that she's enjoying when she's there
aren't as cut and dried, *but* it's a good analogy to keep in mind.
If you're pushing her to go then the negative feelings of coercion
are going to infect her feelings toward the subject of the class. I'm
betting there are far far more adults who avoid the piano -- and
playing music in general -- because they were forced through lessons
than those who appreciate the pushing.
If you have piano lessons left over, why don't you take them :-)
put "just" before playing. (Or "just" before any of her interests.)
It's a common expression that most people say without thinking about
it, but just implies not important. If she were "just taking piano
lessons" it implies she's not playing concerts, for instance.
Play for 6 yo's is their number one way of learning about the world.
There's no "just" about it! :-)
get kids functioning in school. Their goal is to get kids to separate
from their parents and function in a room full of kids. Not a single
one of them has any clue what will happen if kids are allowed to
blossom in their own time in a supportive environment.
But there are people here who do. Homeschooling and even more so
unschooling probably has a higher percentage of atypical kids because
the parents can't get typical to work for them ;-)
This is something that won't feel as satisfying because it isn't a
self contained learning adventure, but her relationship with you when
you're together is far more important than any information she could
absorb from a field trip. She's going to get far more out of the two
of you poking beneath rocks and the two of you sharing what you find
-- her sharing more than you if you have a tendency to want to
teach ;-) -- than she will touring a factory. She's going to get far
more out of observing and discovering what *she* finds important than
being told by experts what's important.
We can't tell you what to do. Unschooling doesn't work like that! :-)
But we can help you see the principles like respect, curiosity and
kindness. Right now you have getting learning into her as a higher
priority. That's why you're not sure what she enjoys. You're looking
outward at what you can get into her rather than looking at her.
Think less in terms of getting the world into her and more in terms
of creating an environment for her to explore freely.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Ok so I'm trying to figure out the classes to drop, for one sheIt might help you in your grasping of unschooling to drop nearly all
> really doesn't LOVE piano but usually when I ask if she wants to
> quit it completely she says no
of them. It could be that she's picking up on the idea that the best
way to do something is to take a class and to empower her *and* you
in exploring the world, that would be a good idea to let go of.
Classes are *one* way of exploring something but shouldn't be at the
top of your list. For instance, if you'd like to expose her to dance,
put on some music and dance :-) Add in some scarves. Add in some
bells for wrists and ankles. Have fun with it. There are undoubtedly
some 6 yos who love the formality of ballet, but for most, it's far
better for them to move to the music. Put on videos of people dancing
and dance with them. It's how dance has traditionally been passed on:
people danced and kids copied as the mood struck them. It's
unfortunate that we don't live in communities where people are
regularly dancing, but with the power of video we can get close :-)
If her reluctance is more about difficulties transitioning, this
might help:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling%20in%20action/transitions.html
But at this point, with her saying she doesn't want to go so often,
I'd put off any more commitments and wait until she asks for classes.
It could be she's on the way to class burn out.
> ... so I try to do it once or twice a month at most, this teacherIf you'd paid for medicine and you were allergic to it, would you
> is super flexible, she charged us $8 per lesson if we bought 20
> lessons. We have about 10 more or so to go right now...
keep taking it because you'd paid for it?
Paid for lessons (or costumes) that she's enjoying when she's there
aren't as cut and dried, *but* it's a good analogy to keep in mind.
If you're pushing her to go then the negative feelings of coercion
are going to infect her feelings toward the subject of the class. I'm
betting there are far far more adults who avoid the piano -- and
playing music in general -- because they were forced through lessons
than those who appreciate the pushing.
If you have piano lessons left over, why don't you take them :-)
> if I dont' work we're just home playing,One stop closer to unschooling will be catching yourself before you
>
put "just" before playing. (Or "just" before any of her interests.)
It's a common expression that most people say without thinking about
it, but just implies not important. If she were "just taking piano
lessons" it implies she's not playing concerts, for instance.
Play for 6 yo's is their number one way of learning about the world.
There's no "just" about it! :-)
> she has selective mutism- which is another reason I do need to keepTo put this in perspective, every doctor and therapist's goal is to
> her in some regular social groups like our coop.....
>
get kids functioning in school. Their goal is to get kids to separate
from their parents and function in a room full of kids. Not a single
one of them has any clue what will happen if kids are allowed to
blossom in their own time in a supportive environment.
But there are people here who do. Homeschooling and even more so
unschooling probably has a higher percentage of atypical kids because
the parents can't get typical to work for them ;-)
> if I don't work then we go on a fieldtrip or outtingInstead of field trips, be out in the world exploring. :-)
>
This is something that won't feel as satisfying because it isn't a
self contained learning adventure, but her relationship with you when
you're together is far more important than any information she could
absorb from a field trip. She's going to get far more out of the two
of you poking beneath rocks and the two of you sharing what you find
-- her sharing more than you if you have a tendency to want to
teach ;-) -- than she will touring a factory. She's going to get far
more out of observing and discovering what *she* finds important than
being told by experts what's important.
We can't tell you what to do. Unschooling doesn't work like that! :-)
But we can help you see the principles like respect, curiosity and
kindness. Right now you have getting learning into her as a higher
priority. That's why you're not sure what she enjoys. You're looking
outward at what you can get into her rather than looking at her.
Think less in terms of getting the world into her and more in terms
of creating an environment for her to explore freely.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 14, 2010, at 8:37 PM, kristi3003@... wrote:
crushing her with your version of reality?
*Her* reality as a 6 yo is that you're there to help her navigate her
6 yo life. What she's learning *isn't* that she has to do things she
doesn't want to do but that you're priority to push her (for the sake
of the lesson you want her to learn or because of the money) isn't as
important as she is.
I'm betting that isn't what you want to say to her! But it *is* what
your actions are saying. You can explain it all you want, but she
sees life through 6 yo eyes because she's 6. She'll see through adult
eyes when she's an adult. *Not* because the 6 yo has been trained out
of her but because age and experience bring new priorities and
understandings.
Right now the most important thing for her to learn is that you'll be
there for her. That you're her advocate. That you're the power she
doesn't have to manipulate the world and help her get and explore
what intrigues her.
Why do you choose not to? Because you have to, or because the idea of
losing clients is a greater negative than the positive of a day off?
The idea of choice is one of the *biggies* in unschooling. Please do
read:
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
There isn't a single thing in your life that you have to do except
die. You don't need to stay in your family. You *could* empty the
bank account and take off for Fiji. Why don't you? Everyday you
choose not to leave for Fiji is a day you've *chosen* to be with your
family.
her stay home. It's won't help you think clearly if you blame outside
forces that are more powerful than you. Help empower your daughter.
Find respectful and safe solutions.
And it's respectful to not obligate a 6 yo to do something they don't
want to do to do something they do want to do. A 6 yo should be
protected from commitments. People need to be 18 before a contract
they sign is legally binding. It's (mostly!) not an arbitrary age.
18 yos are better able to grasp what what time and people depending
on them and their reputation mean. A 6 yo shouldn't have to promise
to continue something in order to be able to continue it. Find
opportunities to explore that don't involve commitments. Or if
there's something super exciting, be prepared to see the cost as
prorated over the number of classes she takes. If she only goes to
one class, it might be a $200 class. ;-) If she goes to 2, they were
$100 a piece. Even better, ask to sit in on a class. Instructors
don't want kids being forced to come if they don't want to be there!
It helps *them* if there are ways to weed out the kids who won't
enjoy themselves.
But for right now, I wouldn't add more classes unless she's
specifically asking.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> And I get that, I'm all for following their lead and their wantsSo, do you want to prepare her for a possible crushing reality by
> and needs and dreams, but what about reality, not everyone will get
> their dream job
crushing her with your version of reality?
*Her* reality as a 6 yo is that you're there to help her navigate her
6 yo life. What she's learning *isn't* that she has to do things she
doesn't want to do but that you're priority to push her (for the sake
of the lesson you want her to learn or because of the money) isn't as
important as she is.
I'm betting that isn't what you want to say to her! But it *is* what
your actions are saying. You can explain it all you want, but she
sees life through 6 yo eyes because she's 6. She'll see through adult
eyes when she's an adult. *Not* because the 6 yo has been trained out
of her but because age and experience bring new priorities and
understandings.
Right now the most important thing for her to learn is that you'll be
there for her. That you're her advocate. That you're the power she
doesn't have to manipulate the world and help her get and explore
what intrigues her.
> or even want to do it everyday, I LOVE My job, but many days IDo you not cancel because you can't or because you choose not to?
> don't want to be there, but I can't just tell my clients- sorry,
> I'm cancelling everyone today, that's just not life..
Why do you choose not to? Because you have to, or because the idea of
losing clients is a greater negative than the positive of a day off?
The idea of choice is one of the *biggies* in unschooling. Please do
read:
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
There isn't a single thing in your life that you have to do except
die. You don't need to stay in your family. You *could* empty the
bank account and take off for Fiji. Why don't you? Everyday you
choose not to leave for Fiji is a day you've *chosen* to be with your
family.
> if she commits to a class then some of these classes do meet once aWhy can't she? Will she be arrested? No, it's because you won't let
> week and she can't just show up once a month........
her stay home. It's won't help you think clearly if you blame outside
forces that are more powerful than you. Help empower your daughter.
Find respectful and safe solutions.
And it's respectful to not obligate a 6 yo to do something they don't
want to do to do something they do want to do. A 6 yo should be
protected from commitments. People need to be 18 before a contract
they sign is legally binding. It's (mostly!) not an arbitrary age.
18 yos are better able to grasp what what time and people depending
on them and their reputation mean. A 6 yo shouldn't have to promise
to continue something in order to be able to continue it. Find
opportunities to explore that don't involve commitments. Or if
there's something super exciting, be prepared to see the cost as
prorated over the number of classes she takes. If she only goes to
one class, it might be a $200 class. ;-) If she goes to 2, they were
$100 a piece. Even better, ask to sit in on a class. Instructors
don't want kids being forced to come if they don't want to be there!
It helps *them* if there are ways to weed out the kids who won't
enjoy themselves.
But for right now, I wouldn't add more classes unless she's
specifically asking.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Natalya Davis
Wow. My son is 5.5, I'm fairly new to unschooling, but essentially homeschooling since birth. A few things strike me. One is how packed in her schedule is. I'd be stressed doing all of that and I'm an adult. Now that may be my slightly introvert personality coming through but that just seems way too busy. If she was happy with it then I'd say stick with it. But she seems to be communicating that this is too much. I tend to rotate activities with my kids. We will do a fairly relaxed coop for awhile, such and such class for awhile. But never schedule more than 1-2 formal activities per week. And this is probably a lot less unschooly than typical. Also I second that selective mutism is a form of social anxiety. Forcing more social interaction may not be the best thing for her.
All that being said, she may be having issues with transitions as well. This may explain her reluctance in the moment for going somewhere planned. In which case I would work on smoothing over those transitions.
Also is it possible that when she says she doesn't want to quit ballet or piano she's picking up on your preferences and saying what she thinks you want to hear. My so will do that when he senses some activity is important to me. She may be feeling the pressure to continue to please you.
A newbie throwing out some thoughts,
Nat
Sent from my iPhone
All that being said, she may be having issues with transitions as well. This may explain her reluctance in the moment for going somewhere planned. In which case I would work on smoothing over those transitions.
Also is it possible that when she says she doesn't want to quit ballet or piano she's picking up on your preferences and saying what she thinks you want to hear. My so will do that when he senses some activity is important to me. She may be feeling the pressure to continue to please you.
A newbie throwing out some thoughts,
Nat
Sent from my iPhone
Debra Rossing
> but what about reality, not everyone will get their dream job or evenwant to do it every day, I LOVE My job, but many days I don't want to be
there, but I can't just tell my clients- sorry, I'm cancelling everyone
today, that's just not life..
Sure you can do that - you choose not to do that. You can call all your
clients and say "Sorry, I need to reschedule your Tuesday appointment -
would Thursday or next Tuesday be better for you?" It's a choice - you
prefer the outcome when you choose to follow through on the appointments
you've got scheduled. If you don't have your dream job, why not? People
change jobs and careers every day (sometimes by choice, sometimes by
downsizing). It's all about choice, there aren't many real 'have to'
things in "reality" - it's "What result do I want?" Do I want to buy
paper plates every week instead of washing dishes? Do I want to buy take
out 5 days per week instead of cooking meals? Do I want to continue in
this secretarial pool or is this paying the bills while I pursue
something else? Can I manage this job to pay the bills while I volunteer
elsewhere to find satisfaction/fulfillment? (for instance, the contact
person at the financial services company that handles the 401K plan
where I work cut back to 4 days instead of 5 and spends the other day
working with a non-profit that helps people who are facing foreclosure,
deep debt, etc get themselves on their feet again). Life is a series of
choices, even if we don't think we have a choice. We do have the choice,
we just don't want the likely outcome/result/consequence. We can choose
not to pay taxes - we might end up in jail, we'll definitely end up
owing more than otherwise in penalties and such, so we pay. We can
choose to do 90 mph on the highway - we might even get to our
destination safely without getting caught, but if we do get caught, it's
serious (that's high enough to be considered reckless driving which is a
more serious penalty than just speeding), and there's a chance we can
hurt ourselves or others, so we generally keep within range of the
posted limits. We can choose not to work at all and live on government's
programs (food stamps, housing subsidies, etc) - and some people do
that. I can choose to eat whatever I want whenever I want, but that has
health consequences (I'm a type 2 diabetic) that I do not want to deal
with, so I keep an eye on what I eat and do the things I know are
beneficial - I don't always feel like spending an hour walking on the
treadmill but I know that the alternative is feeling less than good, so
I choose to get my butt up and on the treadmill.
Deb R
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[email protected]
Of course you don't. She's 6. She's just figuring things out. And will be for years.
And this isn't about her future work life. Learning is not about work. Living is not work. Living can include a paying job. Later. Now, she's 6 and her priorities are constantly changing.
Yes, it's hard to keep up. Yes, it seems flighty to start and stop things. We went through this for years with our DD. Compared to DS, who settled on a sport he loved very young, DD went from one activity to the next like changing clothes.
Except for reading. She has always loved reading and now had to have an emergency trip to the library when public school didn't have enough books. Any, actually.
Oh, yes, she decided to go to public school, starting with the 9th grade,
Did I mention she is changeable? :)
Go with it and enjoy all of it or at least let her enjoy what she wants to do and let go of the rest. It doesn't end and will be a long slog if every decision is a major one.
As for the future, DD is the one I don't worry about. She conquers whatever she decides to try. DS? I have no idea where he might land. He will be fine, I'm sure, but I think he has some trial and error ahead of him. Who knows which is better. Try a lot of things young and see what clicks? Or stick with one or two things you love and see how that works out? We can't know now.
Nance
And this isn't about her future work life. Learning is not about work. Living is not work. Living can include a paying job. Later. Now, she's 6 and her priorities are constantly changing.
Yes, it's hard to keep up. Yes, it seems flighty to start and stop things. We went through this for years with our DD. Compared to DS, who settled on a sport he loved very young, DD went from one activity to the next like changing clothes.
Except for reading. She has always loved reading and now had to have an emergency trip to the library when public school didn't have enough books. Any, actually.
Oh, yes, she decided to go to public school, starting with the 9th grade,
Did I mention she is changeable? :)
Go with it and enjoy all of it or at least let her enjoy what she wants to do and let go of the rest. It doesn't end and will be a long slog if every decision is a major one.
As for the future, DD is the one I don't worry about. She conquers whatever she decides to try. DS? I have no idea where he might land. He will be fine, I'm sure, but I think he has some trial and error ahead of him. Who knows which is better. Try a lot of things young and see what clicks? Or stick with one or two things you love and see how that works out? We can't know now.
Nance
--- In [email protected], Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>
> I guess the main thing is I don't know what she does and doesn't want to do
> sometimes,
[email protected]
I guess I'm a control freak and I have a very hard time just oging with the flow and starting and stopping things... very hard for me to do that...... so I guess i need to step back and really see what she wants to do, it's so much harder than I thought......
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> Of course you don't. She's 6. She's just figuring things out. And will be for years.
>
> And this isn't about her future work life. Learning is not about work. Living is not work. Living can include a paying job. Later. Now, she's 6 and her priorities are constantly changing.
>
> Yes, it's hard to keep up. Yes, it seems flighty to start and stop things. We went through this for years with our DD. Compared to DS, who settled on a sport he loved very young, DD went from one activity to the next like changing clothes.
>
> Except for reading. She has always loved reading and now had to have an emergency trip to the library when public school didn't have enough books. Any, actually.
>
> Oh, yes, she decided to go to public school, starting with the 9th grade,
>
> Did I mention she is changeable? :)
>
> Go with it and enjoy all of it or at least let her enjoy what she wants to do and let go of the rest. It doesn't end and will be a long slog if every decision is a major one.
>
> As for the future, DD is the one I don't worry about. She conquers whatever she decides to try. DS? I have no idea where he might land. He will be fine, I'm sure, but I think he has some trial and error ahead of him. Who knows which is better. Try a lot of things young and see what clicks? Or stick with one or two things you love and see how that works out? We can't know now.
>
> Nance
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Faith Void <littlemsvoid@> wrote:
> >
> > I guess the main thing is I don't know what she does and doesn't want to do
> > sometimes,
>
[email protected]
Well say over the summer when we don't have the coop for 4 months, she goes back into her shell, she won't talk to other kids, etc, etc. with the therapy and regularly attending the coop and some outings with those same kids from the coop now she talks to the kids on the playground and others she doesn't know, she actually answers questions outloud in class once in awhile and this was unheard of for her even a few months ago. So in terms of the selective mutism I try to keep her in something regular like the coop because it seems to help her deal with the anxiety and overcome it rather than it becomming a learned habit, also it's helping her find some friends that she can see on a regular basis....
But as for quitting, I don't know. I'm ok with some and she knows this but she has said she doesn't want to quit... so I will try and explore this further and really try to see it from her eyes and her interests.
For me I grew up doing very well in school, I loved school, I loved academics, I fit the system, I got scholarships to college and just fit into the mold, did well on tests, etc.... so I grew up with this sense of committment I guess you could say, you start something and you finish it, you don't quit...
But as for quitting, I don't know. I'm ok with some and she knows this but she has said she doesn't want to quit... so I will try and explore this further and really try to see it from her eyes and her interests.
For me I grew up doing very well in school, I loved school, I loved academics, I fit the system, I got scholarships to college and just fit into the mold, did well on tests, etc.... so I grew up with this sense of committment I guess you could say, you start something and you finish it, you don't quit...
--- In [email protected], Natalya Davis <glinern@...> wrote:
>
> Wow. My son is 5.5, I'm fairly new to unschooling, but essentially homeschooling since birth. A few things strike me. One is how packed in her schedule is. I'd be stressed doing all of that and I'm an adult. Now that may be my slightly introvert personality coming through but that just seems way too busy. If she was happy with it then I'd say stick with it. But she seems to be communicating that this is too much. I tend to rotate activities with my kids. We will do a fairly relaxed coop for awhile, such and such class for awhile. But never schedule more than 1-2 formal activities per week. And this is probably a lot less unschooly than typical. Also I second that selective mutism is a form of social anxiety. Forcing more social interaction may not be the best thing for her.
>
> All that being said, she may be having issues with transitions as well. This may explain her reluctance in the moment for going somewhere planned. In which case I would work on smoothing over those transitions.
>
> Also is it possible that when she says she doesn't want to quit ballet or piano she's picking up on your preferences and saying what she thinks you want to hear. My so will do that when he senses some activity is important to me. She may be feeling the pressure to continue to please you.
>
> A newbie throwing out some thoughts,
> Nat
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 15, 2010, at 10:07 AM, kristi3003@... wrote:
But it also causes people to feel they're stuck finishing something
that's taking more than it's returning. Anyone can learn how to stick
with something. You stuff down your feelings and endure.
Is that disempowerment what you want for your daughter? Isn't it much
better to learn to assess whether something is draining more than it
can return? Isn't it better to learn to weigh the factors of what
quitting means than to see quitting as a failure?
Parents look at little kids' apparent lack of commitment and assume
they need to be trained to stick with something. But what is that
assumption based on? It's based first on kids natural need to play
and explore freely. They instinctively know when they've gotten what
they've needed for now. And their best learning option is to move
onto the next thing.
I assume you're worried that she'll quit things without taking others
into consideration. (Like quitting a play the night it opens.) But do
you think being made to stick with something a child isn't enjoying
-- basically treating her feelings without compassion -- creates
feelings of compassion for others? As kids get older, *then* they'll
take others into consideration -- because they're older. That natural
compassion for others can be stunted if adults don't treat them and
their wants and needs -- especially the needs the adult doesn't get
the importance of! - with compassion.
*if* kids are helped to find safe and respectful ways to get what
they want, if that's a natural part of your tool box for helping her
meet her needs, she will be considerate of others when she's older.
But making someone stuff their own feelings down to take someone
else's feelings into consideration *isn't* a way to learn compassion.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> so I grew up with this sense of committment I guess you could say,Is that truly a good thing, though? People say it is. People praise it.
> you start something and you finish it, you don't quit...
But it also causes people to feel they're stuck finishing something
that's taking more than it's returning. Anyone can learn how to stick
with something. You stuff down your feelings and endure.
Is that disempowerment what you want for your daughter? Isn't it much
better to learn to assess whether something is draining more than it
can return? Isn't it better to learn to weigh the factors of what
quitting means than to see quitting as a failure?
Parents look at little kids' apparent lack of commitment and assume
they need to be trained to stick with something. But what is that
assumption based on? It's based first on kids natural need to play
and explore freely. They instinctively know when they've gotten what
they've needed for now. And their best learning option is to move
onto the next thing.
I assume you're worried that she'll quit things without taking others
into consideration. (Like quitting a play the night it opens.) But do
you think being made to stick with something a child isn't enjoying
-- basically treating her feelings without compassion -- creates
feelings of compassion for others? As kids get older, *then* they'll
take others into consideration -- because they're older. That natural
compassion for others can be stunted if adults don't treat them and
their wants and needs -- especially the needs the adult doesn't get
the importance of! - with compassion.
*if* kids are helped to find safe and respectful ways to get what
they want, if that's a natural part of your tool box for helping her
meet her needs, she will be considerate of others when she's older.
But making someone stuff their own feelings down to take someone
else's feelings into consideration *isn't* a way to learn compassion.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenna Robertson
My DD had a friend w/ selective mutism. She went to school and it was sooo painful for her. She would whisper in my daughter's ear and my daughter would then tell the adult/teacher/me what her friend said. I'm pretty sure the parents didn't do therapy of any kind, they just loved their daughter and let her grow up in her own way.
The family moved away and I thought it would be so hard for the little girl. A year later I spoke w/ the mom and it turned out that the move was no problem, in fact the girl was now talking to everyone at normal volume all the time! That would have been when she was 8 or 9 years old.
Your daughter can talk and will talk and given support and love and time to develop in her own way she'll gradually grow more comfortable talking in more situations. Familiarity probably is important to her, so getting together consistently w/ the same friends is what she'd enjoy. If she enjoys the coop then great, but if she ends up not wanting to attend you can also see about arranging get together w/ kids she enjoys from the coop. My kids would rather play in an unstructured setting with a few friends, than get together w/ a larger group.
:) Jenna
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The family moved away and I thought it would be so hard for the little girl. A year later I spoke w/ the mom and it turned out that the move was no problem, in fact the girl was now talking to everyone at normal volume all the time! That would have been when she was 8 or 9 years old.
Your daughter can talk and will talk and given support and love and time to develop in her own way she'll gradually grow more comfortable talking in more situations. Familiarity probably is important to her, so getting together consistently w/ the same friends is what she'd enjoy. If she enjoys the coop then great, but if she ends up not wanting to attend you can also see about arranging get together w/ kids she enjoys from the coop. My kids would rather play in an unstructured setting with a few friends, than get together w/ a larger group.
:) Jenna
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
She regressed a lot over the summer which is why we started therapy, and just the past few months she's gotten so much better but she still very much has the SM.
She has some friends, well mainly the girl across the street, she can see her on weekends but not every weekend, and what if they move to another state or who knows... I wanted her to have more friends and more opportunity for regular interactions. The coop is great for that and it is helping she does like it but she HATES that it's so early that one day a week--- there's no way around that... I've tried having playdates regularly with a few other kids who she does talk to, but the parents are just too busy, either the kids are in school, or they have other kids and are just busy or whatever... I've tried and tried and tried to get a regular playdate going but just the other moms can't do it for this reason or that reason, that's been frustrating. She loves the classes she takes there, she loves the outings and programs and get togethers they do, she really enjoys it, just that early morning is something neither of us like so that's really the only drawback. They only meet about half the year (24 Fridays) so it's not every single week and there's long times off inbetween....
The coop is big, but the class sizes are around 9-15, so it's not too terribly huge, there's a nursery for the baby which he LOVES and my daughter loves the crafts she gets to do each week, she's always excited, she LOVES show and tell, and this is helping her talk more, she loves the recess time and the assembly time and just all that and the crafts follow a theme per class so it sort of is like lax unit studies and it's way better than I could do on my own with a couple other kids. THey have valentine parties, easter parties, and she loves those too, she's always so excited.
She has some friends, well mainly the girl across the street, she can see her on weekends but not every weekend, and what if they move to another state or who knows... I wanted her to have more friends and more opportunity for regular interactions. The coop is great for that and it is helping she does like it but she HATES that it's so early that one day a week--- there's no way around that... I've tried having playdates regularly with a few other kids who she does talk to, but the parents are just too busy, either the kids are in school, or they have other kids and are just busy or whatever... I've tried and tried and tried to get a regular playdate going but just the other moms can't do it for this reason or that reason, that's been frustrating. She loves the classes she takes there, she loves the outings and programs and get togethers they do, she really enjoys it, just that early morning is something neither of us like so that's really the only drawback. They only meet about half the year (24 Fridays) so it's not every single week and there's long times off inbetween....
The coop is big, but the class sizes are around 9-15, so it's not too terribly huge, there's a nursery for the baby which he LOVES and my daughter loves the crafts she gets to do each week, she's always excited, she LOVES show and tell, and this is helping her talk more, she loves the recess time and the assembly time and just all that and the crafts follow a theme per class so it sort of is like lax unit studies and it's way better than I could do on my own with a couple other kids. THey have valentine parties, easter parties, and she loves those too, she's always so excited.
--- In [email protected], Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...> wrote:
>
> My DD had a friend w/ selective mutism. She went to school and it was sooo painful for her. She would whisper in my daughter's ear and my daughter would then tell the adult/teacher/me what her friend said. I'm pretty sure the parents didn't do therapy of any kind, they just loved their daughter and let her grow up in her own way.
>
> The family moved away and I thought it would be so hard for the little girl. A year later I spoke w/ the mom and it turned out that the move was no problem, in fact the girl was now talking to everyone at normal volume all the time! That would have been when she was 8 or 9 years old.
>
> Your daughter can talk and will talk and given support and love and time to develop in her own way she'll gradually grow more comfortable talking in more situations. Familiarity probably is important to her, so getting together consistently w/ the same friends is what she'd enjoy. If she enjoys the coop then great, but if she ends up not wanting to attend you can also see about arranging get together w/ kids she enjoys from the coop. My kids would rather play in an unstructured setting with a few friends, than get together w/ a larger group.
>
> :) Jenna
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
Well like ballet for instance, I did try just having her learn it on her own at home, I got her some outfits she wanted, took her to see a ballet, got some videos, music, books, other types of dance, she didn't like it, she kept begging to do a class.
So we tried out a free one, she LOVED It immediately, begged to take it every day...... I told her to do that she'd have to join the Florida ballet but they usually wanted some experience first, ( I truly believe that if we had tried that she wouldn't have liked it after a couple weeks). So I told her, well lets give this class a try if you really love it after awhile and want to go further we'll look into the florida ballet.....
So for a few months she loved it, kept begging to do it everyday, then after a few months or so she was bored, she still enjoys ballet but was tired of going every week, etc... but at this point I'd already paid the recital fees and all that... I mean and that's fine, I told her it was ok to stop but she said she didn't want to, just didn't want to go every week.... and then it was back to when that next week could come she'd say- can we skip this week too, etc.... that's a tough one for me to figure out, we could skip a month, go back to it, etc but once you pay for the month that's paid, and yes we could just pay and if she stops oh well, come back next month if she wants, I get that but at the same time I don't know, once she gets to class she loves it, and she does have trouble with transitions... it's just tough to figure all this out......
plus I have the other issue of family including my dh who don't really even agree with homeschool as it is and think we do nothing all day and the classes we take are all useless and she's learning nothing.........and people on my SM board are against homeschool for SM, and I'm the opposite extreme here and looking at unschooling...... sigh, I've always been so extremely against the norm, it's just tough when most don't understand!
So we tried out a free one, she LOVED It immediately, begged to take it every day...... I told her to do that she'd have to join the Florida ballet but they usually wanted some experience first, ( I truly believe that if we had tried that she wouldn't have liked it after a couple weeks). So I told her, well lets give this class a try if you really love it after awhile and want to go further we'll look into the florida ballet.....
So for a few months she loved it, kept begging to do it everyday, then after a few months or so she was bored, she still enjoys ballet but was tired of going every week, etc... but at this point I'd already paid the recital fees and all that... I mean and that's fine, I told her it was ok to stop but she said she didn't want to, just didn't want to go every week.... and then it was back to when that next week could come she'd say- can we skip this week too, etc.... that's a tough one for me to figure out, we could skip a month, go back to it, etc but once you pay for the month that's paid, and yes we could just pay and if she stops oh well, come back next month if she wants, I get that but at the same time I don't know, once she gets to class she loves it, and she does have trouble with transitions... it's just tough to figure all this out......
plus I have the other issue of family including my dh who don't really even agree with homeschool as it is and think we do nothing all day and the classes we take are all useless and she's learning nothing.........and people on my SM board are against homeschool for SM, and I'm the opposite extreme here and looking at unschooling...... sigh, I've always been so extremely against the norm, it's just tough when most don't understand!
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Feb 15, 2010, at 10:07 AM, kristi3003@... wrote:
>
> > so I grew up with this sense of committment I guess you could say,
> > you start something and you finish it, you don't quit...
>
> Is that truly a good thing, though? People say it is. People praise it.
>
> But it also causes people to feel they're stuck finishing something
> that's taking more than it's returning. Anyone can learn how to stick
> with something. You stuff down your feelings and endure.
>
> Is that disempowerment what you want for your daughter? Isn't it much
> better to learn to assess whether something is draining more than it
> can return? Isn't it better to learn to weigh the factors of what
> quitting means than to see quitting as a failure?
>
> Parents look at little kids' apparent lack of commitment and assume
> they need to be trained to stick with something. But what is that
> assumption based on? It's based first on kids natural need to play
> and explore freely. They instinctively know when they've gotten what
> they've needed for now. And their best learning option is to move
> onto the next thing.
>
> I assume you're worried that she'll quit things without taking others
> into consideration. (Like quitting a play the night it opens.) But do
> you think being made to stick with something a child isn't enjoying
> -- basically treating her feelings without compassion -- creates
> feelings of compassion for others? As kids get older, *then* they'll
> take others into consideration -- because they're older. That natural
> compassion for others can be stunted if adults don't treat them and
> their wants and needs -- especially the needs the adult doesn't get
> the importance of! - with compassion.
>
> *if* kids are helped to find safe and respectful ways to get what
> they want, if that's a natural part of your tool box for helping her
> meet her needs, she will be considerate of others when she's older.
> But making someone stuff their own feelings down to take someone
> else's feelings into consideration *isn't* a way to learn compassion.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
The Coffee Goddess
I would like to respond to the "selective mutism". I had never heard the term until you mentioned it. It's as simple as a kid who is shy and doesn't like to talk when feeling uncomfortable?! Wow--really? I guess my son "has" that. But guess what--in a radical unschooling family, it's a non-issue! Growing up, he would tell me when he didn't want to talk, or when he wanted me to talk for him. He's 12 now, still shy until he gets to know you, but is a social butterfly and has many friends. You don't have to make an issue out of it--just help your daughter communicate when she wants the help, and don't force the issue! Help her play, be there with her and her friends and let her know that you will talk for her if she needs you to, be happy to step between her and strangers and answer their questions. Maybe help her email and chat online instead--this helped my son break the ice. Seriously, this doesn't have to be a problem!
Dana
Dana
>>She regressed a lot over the summer which is why we started therapy, and just the past few months she's gotten so much better but she still very much has the SM.>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
No it's much much deeper, it's a complex anxiety disorder, it's not shyness it's where they literally can't get any word out even if they want to, it's really hard on the kids who have it, where other kids will eventually say at least 1 word to another child or teacher, an SM child won't even utter a sound.... I went for a couple years blowing it off as just shyness and no big deal like you said but it kept getting worse and she'd keep saying she wanted to talk but couldn't or didn' tknow how, she'd feel bad around others who could talk who she still couldn't talk to, she kept asking me why she couldn't and I wanted to cry just seeing her keep regressing more and more, even kids she'd talk to one year the next year she wouldn't even look at, she'd stay in a corner whereas the year before she played more, in class in kindergarten at coop she smiled for all the pictures, in 1st grade she hid her face, it was heartbreaking for me.... but after a few months of regular therapy she jumped forward so far, she's almost a different child now with it and doing so much better!!! Now she's talking to me about how she feels and trying to talk to others and we talk about how she feels and it's helping all around.
--- In [email protected], The Coffee Goddess <hoffmanwilson@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to respond to the "selective mutism". I had never heard the term until you mentioned it. It's as simple as a kid who is shy and doesn't like to talk when feeling uncomfortable?! Wow--really? I guess my son "has" that. But guess what--in a radical unschooling family, it's a non-issue! Growing up, he would tell me when he didn't want to talk, or when he wanted me to talk for him. He's 12 now, still shy until he gets to know you, but is a social butterfly and has many friends. You don't have to make an issue out of it--just help your daughter communicate when she wants the help, and don't force the issue! Help her play, be there with her and her friends and let her know that you will talk for her if she needs you to, be happy to step between her and strangers and answer their questions. Maybe help her email and chat online instead--this helped my son break the ice. Seriously, this doesn't have to be a problem!
>
> Dana
>
>
> >>She regressed a lot over the summer which is why we started therapy, and just the past few months she's gotten so much better but she still very much has the SM.>>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
Thanks everyone for all the ideas, I do admit that the past year or so I felt like all we do is run here, run there, even though we are home a lot we don't just have the relaxing days like we did when she was younger and we had no committments other than work for me and we could just do whatever we wanted all day long... it was awesome, and then I would think, well why can't it be like that again, why does she HAVE to do so much either it be classes or lessons at home. BUt the homeschoolers I associate with all are super structured and were the ones telling me that they do at least 4 hrs a day of lessons and use curriculums and that highschool would be 5-7 hrs of lessons a day for months at a time, and I was just so bothered... I'm so glad I found this group!!!!!! Now I feel like all hope is not lost and I'm not horrible for not believing that we should spend hours a day on workbooks, it just didn't feel right and I just need to reevaluate our entire routine and go from there!
--- In [email protected], Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...> wrote:
>
> My DD had a friend w/ selective mutism. She went to school and it was sooo painful for her. She would whisper in my daughter's ear and my daughter would then tell the adult/teacher/me what her friend said. I'm pretty sure the parents didn't do therapy of any kind, they just loved their daughter and let her grow up in her own way.
>
> The family moved away and I thought it would be so hard for the little girl. A year later I spoke w/ the mom and it turned out that the move was no problem, in fact the girl was now talking to everyone at normal volume all the time! That would have been when she was 8 or 9 years old.
>
> Your daughter can talk and will talk and given support and love and time to develop in her own way she'll gradually grow more comfortable talking in more situations. Familiarity probably is important to her, so getting together consistently w/ the same friends is what she'd enjoy. If she enjoys the coop then great, but if she ends up not wanting to attend you can also see about arranging get together w/ kids she enjoys from the coop. My kids would rather play in an unstructured setting with a few friends, than get together w/ a larger group.
>
> :) Jenna
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Aissa Boduch
Hi
I'm wondering if you've read the book "Dibs in Search of Self"? It's a great
book that I had to read in grad school as it connected play therapy to human
development. The main character, "Dibs," has a lot of issues that get
resolved in the book, but selective mutism is one. It may help with your
understanding and comfort level with choice and freedom, and how they play,
not only into development, but into resolving more complex issues as well.
aissa
I'm wondering if you've read the book "Dibs in Search of Self"? It's a great
book that I had to read in grad school as it connected play therapy to human
development. The main character, "Dibs," has a lot of issues that get
resolved in the book, but selective mutism is one. It may help with your
understanding and comfort level with choice and freedom, and how they play,
not only into development, but into resolving more complex issues as well.
aissa
[email protected]
No I haven't but I will check it out, Thanks you!!!
Also, I liked the comment about thinking over our days and seeing if they really are relaxed or if we're fighting and irritated and when we have a lot to do we do fight, I have the baby to get ready, we're always running out the door, I'm yelling at her to hurry up, if we have lessons to do it's a constant fight. I really need to think about that!!
So I have a lot to reconsider about everything we do.
Back to the coop- that is one thing I really think benefits my dd with her selective mutism and I think is good for all of us. Honestly, I Haven't developed any close friendships but I have met some moms that I do enjoy having playdates with or a moms night out, this is how I met the mom her teaches the art class for my dd, I love all of those. I love coordinating the fieldtrips and getting great discounts and we're a very organized group with the calendar, etc. I love the dinners and programs and the yearbook and my daughter loves the classes and parties and everything too, I don't have her take academic type classes but we do enjoy what she's taking and I think it's fun. The issue really is the time, we just absolutely HATE mornings, normally we're not up until 10:30, for the coop we have to be there at 8:30......, that's our issue, otherwise we both love it.
Also, I liked the comment about thinking over our days and seeing if they really are relaxed or if we're fighting and irritated and when we have a lot to do we do fight, I have the baby to get ready, we're always running out the door, I'm yelling at her to hurry up, if we have lessons to do it's a constant fight. I really need to think about that!!
So I have a lot to reconsider about everything we do.
Back to the coop- that is one thing I really think benefits my dd with her selective mutism and I think is good for all of us. Honestly, I Haven't developed any close friendships but I have met some moms that I do enjoy having playdates with or a moms night out, this is how I met the mom her teaches the art class for my dd, I love all of those. I love coordinating the fieldtrips and getting great discounts and we're a very organized group with the calendar, etc. I love the dinners and programs and the yearbook and my daughter loves the classes and parties and everything too, I don't have her take academic type classes but we do enjoy what she's taking and I think it's fun. The issue really is the time, we just absolutely HATE mornings, normally we're not up until 10:30, for the coop we have to be there at 8:30......, that's our issue, otherwise we both love it.
--- In [email protected], Aissa Boduch <aissaboduch@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I'm wondering if you've read the book "Dibs in Search of Self"? It's a great
> book that I had to read in grad school as it connected play therapy to human
> development. The main character, "Dibs," has a lot of issues that get
> resolved in the book, but selective mutism is one. It may help with your
> understanding and comfort level with choice and freedom, and how they play,
> not only into development, but into resolving more complex issues as well.
>
> aissa
>
Jodi Bezzola
~~The issue really is the time, we just absolutely HATE mornings, normally we're not up until 10:30, for the coop we have to be there at 8:30......, that's our issue, otherwise we both love it.~~
Wow, we'd be fighting here too if we had to be somewhere at 8:30 a.m., that's early!! :)
Is there a rule that says you have to be on time to this co-op day? Could you not stroll in a few hours later for the rest of the morning and the afternoon?? Just a thought.
Jodi
__________________________________________________________________
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Wow, we'd be fighting here too if we had to be somewhere at 8:30 a.m., that's early!! :)
Is there a rule that says you have to be on time to this co-op day? Could you not stroll in a few hours later for the rest of the morning and the afternoon?? Just a thought.
Jodi
__________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JJ
The mention of mornings reminded me how much I was like this, back in the mid-90s. I too loved school myself, so I became the eager-beaver type homeschooling my first child and wearing us both out! :)
Over the years I learned to direct some of all that most earnest effort -- my drive toward research and resource procurement, plus that need to feel you are "on the job" doing important work as the primary homeschool parent and to show relatives you're focused on what is best for your daughter and willing to work hard for it -- toward cognitive psychology, education research and particularly the importance of better sleep in memory and learning, how disturbing it affects personality and impulse/mood, sociability and confidence, self-esteem, etc etc.
Someone suggested moms follow their own interests instead of loading up the child's schedule with activities, good advice! One thing I did was getting a saxophone for myself while my six-year-old was taking piano lessons and having big fun with lessons for a few years, like John Holt taking up the cello as a middle-aged ex-education reformer. (Neither of us kept up either instrument but we don't regret all the fun and learning.)
And also, in the case of good-little-schoolgirl do-bee types like myself and perhaps the original poster, it can mean literally doing our own homework to learn new things about learning. Cognitive psychology is an exploding field since my first child was born in 1990, so my education degrees predated too much of what we know now. I've been known to suggest to my own relatives and to new unschooling moms, that they assign such homework to people who won't get off their backs about being schoolish enough for the child. <evil grin>
Something I wrote for Colleen in her first year of unschooling (are you here, Colleen? chime in!) expands on this idea of unschooling as adults teaching themselves instead of the child:
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/unschooling-lessons-for-school-minded-dads/
Over the years I learned to direct some of all that most earnest effort -- my drive toward research and resource procurement, plus that need to feel you are "on the job" doing important work as the primary homeschool parent and to show relatives you're focused on what is best for your daughter and willing to work hard for it -- toward cognitive psychology, education research and particularly the importance of better sleep in memory and learning, how disturbing it affects personality and impulse/mood, sociability and confidence, self-esteem, etc etc.
Someone suggested moms follow their own interests instead of loading up the child's schedule with activities, good advice! One thing I did was getting a saxophone for myself while my six-year-old was taking piano lessons and having big fun with lessons for a few years, like John Holt taking up the cello as a middle-aged ex-education reformer. (Neither of us kept up either instrument but we don't regret all the fun and learning.)
And also, in the case of good-little-schoolgirl do-bee types like myself and perhaps the original poster, it can mean literally doing our own homework to learn new things about learning. Cognitive psychology is an exploding field since my first child was born in 1990, so my education degrees predated too much of what we know now. I've been known to suggest to my own relatives and to new unschooling moms, that they assign such homework to people who won't get off their backs about being schoolish enough for the child. <evil grin>
Something I wrote for Colleen in her first year of unschooling (are you here, Colleen? chime in!) expands on this idea of unschooling as adults teaching themselves instead of the child:
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/unschooling-lessons-for-school-minded-dads/
--- In [email protected], Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...> wrote:
>
> ~~The issue really is the time, we just absolutely HATE mornings, normally we're not up until 10:30, for the coop we have to be there at 8:30......, that's our issue, otherwise we both love it.~~
>
> Wow, we'd be fighting here too if we had to be somewhere at 8:30 a.m., that's early!! :)
>
> Is there a rule that says you have to be on time to this co-op day? Could you not stroll in a few hours later for the rest of the morning and the afternoon?? Just a thought.
>
> Jodi
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
JJ
Not looking for link love, honest, but the talk of sleep and speech research also made me remember this really old column I wrote:
ACCOUNTABILITY FOR WHAT CHILDREN LEARN: An Essay from an Academic-Turned-Unschooling Mom
by JJ Ross, EdD
http://www.ihen.org/content/articles/ross_031007.htm
". . .My half-awake mind doesn't care about money or academic reputations, not even my own. It cares only about the two fully asleep little minds dreaming down the hall, the ones that will sleep until they wake with their own thoughts and their own songs forming, in their own time, no radio alarm, no clock alarm, no alarm at all. Each morning belongs to them and them alone, and my accountability as their mom is very clear in my mind, asleep OR awake. I am accountable to keep it this way. Period."
ACCOUNTABILITY FOR WHAT CHILDREN LEARN: An Essay from an Academic-Turned-Unschooling Mom
by JJ Ross, EdD
http://www.ihen.org/content/articles/ross_031007.htm
". . .My half-awake mind doesn't care about money or academic reputations, not even my own. It cares only about the two fully asleep little minds dreaming down the hall, the ones that will sleep until they wake with their own thoughts and their own songs forming, in their own time, no radio alarm, no clock alarm, no alarm at all. Each morning belongs to them and them alone, and my accountability as their mom is very clear in my mind, asleep OR awake. I am accountable to keep it this way. Period."