New Family
wrighties2000
Hi all,
I'm new to this group. Me and my husband withdrew our now 9 year old from school this April when we became aware of home education. We then did the same with our now 6 year old in July. We have a 1 year old also. After some research I discovered 'unschooling'. We live in England, in the UK.
Unschooling has opened our eyes to all the limits we were living under and we are really enjoying the new found freedom that unschooling brings.
We are however finding the transition between controlling our children and respecting their choices difficult at the moment. To be specific, we used to demand that they clean up any mess they had made else there was punishment (we thought this was the norm). Now we understand how disrespectful that was to them, we are discussing with them how leaving a mess for our 1 year old to find could be dangerous and how helpful it would be if they picked up after themselves. Our problem is they ignore anything we've talked about and treat the house like a hotel expecting me to clean up after them.
When you respect your children and they really don't show any respect back - how do you handle it?
Sorry to ask questions on my first post but i'm not sure how to handle this. Any suggestions would be great, thankyou.
Hazel x
I'm new to this group. Me and my husband withdrew our now 9 year old from school this April when we became aware of home education. We then did the same with our now 6 year old in July. We have a 1 year old also. After some research I discovered 'unschooling'. We live in England, in the UK.
Unschooling has opened our eyes to all the limits we were living under and we are really enjoying the new found freedom that unschooling brings.
We are however finding the transition between controlling our children and respecting their choices difficult at the moment. To be specific, we used to demand that they clean up any mess they had made else there was punishment (we thought this was the norm). Now we understand how disrespectful that was to them, we are discussing with them how leaving a mess for our 1 year old to find could be dangerous and how helpful it would be if they picked up after themselves. Our problem is they ignore anything we've talked about and treat the house like a hotel expecting me to clean up after them.
When you respect your children and they really don't show any respect back - how do you handle it?
Sorry to ask questions on my first post but i'm not sure how to handle this. Any suggestions would be great, thankyou.
Hazel x
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "wrighties2000" <wrighties2000@...> wrote:
Try to step away from the idea that they are ignoring what you're telling them. Start from the assumption that they love you and want to help, but something else is getting in the way. What that "something else" is, is mostly childhood! Kids are sooooo busy learning and discovering that things like tidying up tend to take a back seat in their awareness. Often, by the time they even notice how big the mess is, its overwhelming to them.
Explaining isn't going to be much help. Rearranging your expectations as to how housekeeping gets done will help a lot. Streamline the process of picking up to make it easier on *everyone*. Have bins and baskets in convenient places, maybe put a big blanket or cloth on the floor for play with small parts so they can all be swooped up at once. Remind kids of things that will be a hazard to the little one - and expect to have to go on reminding bc they're too focused on their own business most of the time to remember that detail. Be really specific about that and come up with some easy strategies for quick cleanup. Otherwise, designate "safe" play areas, away from the little one. On a table, maybe, or behind a gate.
Clean things cheerfully, yourself, and invite them to help, but don't demand it. Right now, they still likely see cleaning as being related to punishment. Its an unpleasant chore. If You think of it as an unpleasant chore, you'll go on reinforcing that idea. You need to reinvent cleaning as something you can do happily - and that means You need to find a way to clean happily. See it as a gift you are giving to the wonderful, creative people who you get to live with. Every time you declutter a room, you make it easier for them to find the tools they need to learn and discover even more! That's a better reason to clean than "it has to be done".
I remind myself that my kids are people, with needs and feelings that aren't necessarily convenient to me (darn them!). My kids have grouchy days, bad moods, get overwhelmed, are too wrapped up in their own selves to notice the rest of the world - just like adults. If I want them to respect me despite My groucy days, bad moods, etc, then its important that I show them the same respect. And because I'm the mom, the role model, I need to be the one to do it first and more often. That's part of my job.
The vast majority of the time I find that when I'm giving them enough attention and care, showing my kids enough respect, and making an effort to help them get their needs met, then they're kinder and more helpful to me. It makes sense if you think about it - if I'm meeting those very important needs, then my kids have energy to expend on being kind and helpful. If I'm not meeting those needs, they're too wrapped up in neediness to look beyond themselves. Its not some kind of magic. Its basic human nature.
If your kids have dealt with school and control and punishment, then they've learned not to trust you to meet those needs. They've learned that you'll step between them and their needs with lunatic demands, like "its time to clean up". That sounds nuts to a young child, intent on playing or eating or watching a show. Worse, to them it Looks disrespectful. So you're working to undo years of modelling disrespect.
Eventually, kids develop to the point where they start to notice mess on their own, and have the skills to do something about it. They don't have to be forced or trained to do those things, although they may need little reminders. Just an hour ago my 8yo was changing and dropped her dirty clothes on the bed, and I said something like "laundry basket" and she merrily tossed them there. My 15yo almost never leaves his dirty laundry on the bathroom floor these days, and as I'm typing he's cleaning the kitchen.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
>we used to demand that they clean up any mess they had made else there was punishment (we thought this was the norm). Now we understand how disrespectful that was to them, we are discussing with them how leaving a mess for our 1 year old to find could be dangerous and how helpful it would be if they picked up after themselves. Our problem is they ignore anything we've talked about**********************
Try to step away from the idea that they are ignoring what you're telling them. Start from the assumption that they love you and want to help, but something else is getting in the way. What that "something else" is, is mostly childhood! Kids are sooooo busy learning and discovering that things like tidying up tend to take a back seat in their awareness. Often, by the time they even notice how big the mess is, its overwhelming to them.
Explaining isn't going to be much help. Rearranging your expectations as to how housekeeping gets done will help a lot. Streamline the process of picking up to make it easier on *everyone*. Have bins and baskets in convenient places, maybe put a big blanket or cloth on the floor for play with small parts so they can all be swooped up at once. Remind kids of things that will be a hazard to the little one - and expect to have to go on reminding bc they're too focused on their own business most of the time to remember that detail. Be really specific about that and come up with some easy strategies for quick cleanup. Otherwise, designate "safe" play areas, away from the little one. On a table, maybe, or behind a gate.
Clean things cheerfully, yourself, and invite them to help, but don't demand it. Right now, they still likely see cleaning as being related to punishment. Its an unpleasant chore. If You think of it as an unpleasant chore, you'll go on reinforcing that idea. You need to reinvent cleaning as something you can do happily - and that means You need to find a way to clean happily. See it as a gift you are giving to the wonderful, creative people who you get to live with. Every time you declutter a room, you make it easier for them to find the tools they need to learn and discover even more! That's a better reason to clean than "it has to be done".
>>> When you respect your children and they really don't show any respect back - how do you handle it?****************
I remind myself that my kids are people, with needs and feelings that aren't necessarily convenient to me (darn them!). My kids have grouchy days, bad moods, get overwhelmed, are too wrapped up in their own selves to notice the rest of the world - just like adults. If I want them to respect me despite My groucy days, bad moods, etc, then its important that I show them the same respect. And because I'm the mom, the role model, I need to be the one to do it first and more often. That's part of my job.
The vast majority of the time I find that when I'm giving them enough attention and care, showing my kids enough respect, and making an effort to help them get their needs met, then they're kinder and more helpful to me. It makes sense if you think about it - if I'm meeting those very important needs, then my kids have energy to expend on being kind and helpful. If I'm not meeting those needs, they're too wrapped up in neediness to look beyond themselves. Its not some kind of magic. Its basic human nature.
If your kids have dealt with school and control and punishment, then they've learned not to trust you to meet those needs. They've learned that you'll step between them and their needs with lunatic demands, like "its time to clean up". That sounds nuts to a young child, intent on playing or eating or watching a show. Worse, to them it Looks disrespectful. So you're working to undo years of modelling disrespect.
Eventually, kids develop to the point where they start to notice mess on their own, and have the skills to do something about it. They don't have to be forced or trained to do those things, although they may need little reminders. Just an hour ago my 8yo was changing and dropped her dirty clothes on the bed, and I said something like "laundry basket" and she merrily tossed them there. My 15yo almost never leaves his dirty laundry on the bathroom floor these days, and as I'm typing he's cleaning the kitchen.
> Sorry to ask questions on my first postAsk away!
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
Paul & Camille
Meredith I loved your post, thankyou as I am still trying to get the parenting side of things also. I only have a 5 year old darling boy to sort out but it still takes alot of doing at times :) I guess its reprogramming myself as much as anything and look at things in a different way :)
~Camille~
Try to step away from the idea that they are ignoring what you're telling them. Start from the assumption that they love you and want to help, but something else is getting in the way. What that "something else" is, is mostly childhood! Kids are sooooo busy learning and discovering that things like tidying up tend to take a back seat in their awareness. Often, by the time they even notice how big the mess is, its overwhelming to them.
Explaining isn't going to be much help. Rearranging your expectations as to how housekeeping gets done will help a lot. Streamline the process of picking up to make it easier on *everyone*. Have bins and baskets in convenient places, maybe put a big blanket or cloth on the floor for play with small parts so they can all be swooped up at once. Remind kids of things that will be a hazard to the little one - and expect to have to go on reminding bc they're too focused on their own business most of the time to remember that detail. Be really specific about that and come up with some easy strategies for quick cleanup. Otherwise, designate "safe" play areas, away from the little one. On a table, maybe, or behind a gate.
Clean things cheerfully, yourself, and invite them to help, but don't demand it. Right now, they still likely see cleaning as being related to punishment. Its an unpleasant chore. If You think of it as an unpleasant chore, you'll go on reinforcing that idea. You need to reinvent cleaning as something you can do happily - and that means You need to find a way to clean happily. See it as a gift you are giving to the wonderful, creative people who you get to live with. Every time you declutter a room, you make it easier for them to find the tools they need to learn and discover even more! That's a better reason to clean than "it has to be done".
I remind myself that my kids are people, with needs and feelings that aren't necessarily convenient to me (darn them!). My kids have grouchy days, bad moods, get overwhelmed, are too wrapped up in their own selves to notice the rest of the world - just like adults. If I want them to respect me despite My groucy days, bad moods, etc, then its important that I show them the same respect. And because I'm the mom, the role model, I need to be the one to do it first and more often. That's part of my job.
The vast majority of the time I find that when I'm giving them enough attention and care, showing my kids enough respect, and making an effort to help them get their needs met, then they're kinder and more helpful to me. It makes sense if you think about it - if I'm meeting those very important needs, then my kids have energy to expend on being kind and helpful. If I'm not meeting those needs, they're too wrapped up in neediness to look beyond themselves. Its not some kind of magic. Its basic human nature.
If your kids have dealt with school and control and punishment, then they've learned not to trust you to meet those needs. They've learned that you'll step between them and their needs with lunatic demands, like "its time to clean up". That sounds nuts to a young child, intent on playing or eating or watching a show. Worse, to them it Looks disrespectful. So you're working to undo years of modelling disrespect.
Eventually, kids develop to the point where they start to notice mess on their own, and have the skills to do something about it. They don't have to be forced or trained to do those things, although they may need little reminders. Just an hour ago my 8yo was changing and dropped her dirty clothes on the bed, and I said something like "laundry basket" and she merrily tossed them there. My 15yo almost never leaves his dirty laundry on the bathroom floor these days, and as I'm typing he's cleaning the kitchen.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~Camille~
>we used to demand that they clean up any mess they had made else there was punishment (we thought this was the norm). Now we understand how disrespectful that was to them, we are discussing with them how leaving a mess for our 1 year old to find could be dangerous and how helpful it would be if they picked up after themselves. Our problem is they ignore anything we've talked about**********************
Try to step away from the idea that they are ignoring what you're telling them. Start from the assumption that they love you and want to help, but something else is getting in the way. What that "something else" is, is mostly childhood! Kids are sooooo busy learning and discovering that things like tidying up tend to take a back seat in their awareness. Often, by the time they even notice how big the mess is, its overwhelming to them.
Explaining isn't going to be much help. Rearranging your expectations as to how housekeeping gets done will help a lot. Streamline the process of picking up to make it easier on *everyone*. Have bins and baskets in convenient places, maybe put a big blanket or cloth on the floor for play with small parts so they can all be swooped up at once. Remind kids of things that will be a hazard to the little one - and expect to have to go on reminding bc they're too focused on their own business most of the time to remember that detail. Be really specific about that and come up with some easy strategies for quick cleanup. Otherwise, designate "safe" play areas, away from the little one. On a table, maybe, or behind a gate.
Clean things cheerfully, yourself, and invite them to help, but don't demand it. Right now, they still likely see cleaning as being related to punishment. Its an unpleasant chore. If You think of it as an unpleasant chore, you'll go on reinforcing that idea. You need to reinvent cleaning as something you can do happily - and that means You need to find a way to clean happily. See it as a gift you are giving to the wonderful, creative people who you get to live with. Every time you declutter a room, you make it easier for them to find the tools they need to learn and discover even more! That's a better reason to clean than "it has to be done".
>>> When you respect your children and they really don't show any respect back - how do you handle it?****************
I remind myself that my kids are people, with needs and feelings that aren't necessarily convenient to me (darn them!). My kids have grouchy days, bad moods, get overwhelmed, are too wrapped up in their own selves to notice the rest of the world - just like adults. If I want them to respect me despite My groucy days, bad moods, etc, then its important that I show them the same respect. And because I'm the mom, the role model, I need to be the one to do it first and more often. That's part of my job.
The vast majority of the time I find that when I'm giving them enough attention and care, showing my kids enough respect, and making an effort to help them get their needs met, then they're kinder and more helpful to me. It makes sense if you think about it - if I'm meeting those very important needs, then my kids have energy to expend on being kind and helpful. If I'm not meeting those needs, they're too wrapped up in neediness to look beyond themselves. Its not some kind of magic. Its basic human nature.
If your kids have dealt with school and control and punishment, then they've learned not to trust you to meet those needs. They've learned that you'll step between them and their needs with lunatic demands, like "its time to clean up". That sounds nuts to a young child, intent on playing or eating or watching a show. Worse, to them it Looks disrespectful. So you're working to undo years of modelling disrespect.
Eventually, kids develop to the point where they start to notice mess on their own, and have the skills to do something about it. They don't have to be forced or trained to do those things, although they may need little reminders. Just an hour ago my 8yo was changing and dropped her dirty clothes on the bed, and I said something like "laundry basket" and she merrily tossed them there. My 15yo almost never leaves his dirty laundry on the bathroom floor these days, and as I'm typing he's cleaning the kitchen.
> Sorry to ask questions on my first postAsk away!
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wrighties2000
Meredith,
Thankyou for the fresh perspective. I read your post yesterday morning but i was unable to say thanks at the time. It really made a difference to our day having those realisations in mind. I have noticed a big change in how i say things, in particular instead of I've 'got' to do this, i am now saying I want to do this.
I am also understanding that the kids are learning and discovering even when making a mess and I can joyfully clean up after them (even though I may feel a little irritated - but that's my problem not theirs).
Thanks again and I'm sure I'll be back with another question in no time.
Hazel x
Thankyou for the fresh perspective. I read your post yesterday morning but i was unable to say thanks at the time. It really made a difference to our day having those realisations in mind. I have noticed a big change in how i say things, in particular instead of I've 'got' to do this, i am now saying I want to do this.
I am also understanding that the kids are learning and discovering even when making a mess and I can joyfully clean up after them (even though I may feel a little irritated - but that's my problem not theirs).
Thanks again and I'm sure I'll be back with another question in no time.
Hazel x
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <meredith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "wrighties2000" <wrighties2000@> wrote:
> >we used to demand that they clean up any mess they had made else there was punishment (we thought this was the norm). Now we understand how disrespectful that was to them, we are discussing with them how leaving a mess for our 1 year old to find could be dangerous and how helpful it would be if they picked up after themselves. Our problem is they ignore anything we've talked about
> **********************
>
> Try to step away from the idea that they are ignoring what you're telling them. Start from the assumption that they love you and want to help, but something else is getting in the way. What that "something else" is, is mostly childhood! Kids are sooooo busy learning and discovering that things like tidying up tend to take a back seat in their awareness. Often, by the time they even notice how big the mess is, its overwhelming to them.
>
> Explaining isn't going to be much help. Rearranging your expectations as to how housekeeping gets done will help a lot. Streamline the process of picking up to make it easier on *everyone*. Have bins and baskets in convenient places, maybe put a big blanket or cloth on the floor for play with small parts so they can all be swooped up at once. Remind kids of things that will be a hazard to the little one - and expect to have to go on reminding bc they're too focused on their own business most of the time to remember that detail. Be really specific about that and come up with some easy strategies for quick cleanup. Otherwise, designate "safe" play areas, away from the little one. On a table, maybe, or behind a gate.
>
> Clean things cheerfully, yourself, and invite them to help, but don't demand it. Right now, they still likely see cleaning as being related to punishment. Its an unpleasant chore. If You think of it as an unpleasant chore, you'll go on reinforcing that idea. You need to reinvent cleaning as something you can do happily - and that means You need to find a way to clean happily. See it as a gift you are giving to the wonderful, creative people who you get to live with. Every time you declutter a room, you make it easier for them to find the tools they need to learn and discover even more! That's a better reason to clean than "it has to be done".
>
> >>> When you respect your children and they really don't show any respect back - how do you handle it?
> ****************
>
> I remind myself that my kids are people, with needs and feelings that aren't necessarily convenient to me (darn them!). My kids have grouchy days, bad moods, get overwhelmed, are too wrapped up in their own selves to notice the rest of the world - just like adults. If I want them to respect me despite My groucy days, bad moods, etc, then its important that I show them the same respect. And because I'm the mom, the role model, I need to be the one to do it first and more often. That's part of my job.
>
> The vast majority of the time I find that when I'm giving them enough attention and care, showing my kids enough respect, and making an effort to help them get their needs met, then they're kinder and more helpful to me. It makes sense if you think about it - if I'm meeting those very important needs, then my kids have energy to expend on being kind and helpful. If I'm not meeting those needs, they're too wrapped up in neediness to look beyond themselves. Its not some kind of magic. Its basic human nature.
>
> If your kids have dealt with school and control and punishment, then they've learned not to trust you to meet those needs. They've learned that you'll step between them and their needs with lunatic demands, like "its time to clean up". That sounds nuts to a young child, intent on playing or eating or watching a show. Worse, to them it Looks disrespectful. So you're working to undo years of modelling disrespect.
>
> Eventually, kids develop to the point where they start to notice mess on their own, and have the skills to do something about it. They don't have to be forced or trained to do those things, although they may need little reminders. Just an hour ago my 8yo was changing and dropped her dirty clothes on the bed, and I said something like "laundry basket" and she merrily tossed them there. My 15yo almost never leaves his dirty laundry on the bathroom floor these days, and as I'm typing he's cleaning the kitchen.
>
> > Sorry to ask questions on my first post
>
> Ask away!
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
>