Amy

I hesitated to ask for advice but I don't know a way of thinking about this and decided to ask all of you wise unschoolers.

Is it wrong to ask for help with housework and responsibilities around the house from my 16 year old. I have not demanded this in the past, hoping that he would volunteer. And he has, on a few occasions offered to help me.
I am working two jobs and am the only one in the household and do everything ( and do not have the time I had when I was married and not working to devote to him- but this is another issue). And I am exhausted and stressed. I would REALLY like him to help me, but understand that he has the right to say no, which he almost exclusively tells me.

My question is how do I deal with the feelings I have about this, which is a combination of desperation, disappointment and resentment. I keep these to myself, but I know he senses my frustration. At times I can control these feelings with lots of meditation, talking to friends, etc. I just don't know how to handle the stressful times and the practical matters like the fact that the pets still need to be fed and have water...

Sorry about the negative tone.... I want to change this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Amy

Joyce Fetteroll

On May 29, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Amy wrote:

> Is it wrong to ask for help with housework and responsibilities
> around the house from my 16 year old.

I think the question to ask isn't "Is it wrong?" but "What are the
effects?"

In fact that will help anyone trying to grasp unschooling.
Unschooling and mindful parenting shouldn't be a way of sorting
behaviors into two sets "Part of radical unschooling" and "Not part
of radical unschooling". The goal is understanding the philosophy to
see why something fits and something doesn't fit.

Telling or expecting a 6yo to clean their room is bound to tear at
the relationship. Their view of the world, their capabilities just
aren't adult like enough for them to see and feel that as anything
more than conscripted labor for something they doesn't care about yet.

A 16 yo has a more adult outlook and can understand the time tasks
take and that not doing laundry means not having clean clothes and so
on.

Rather than approach him with a list of to dos, involve him in the
process. Let him know you're feeling overwhelmed with the change in
lifestyle and keeping up with life maintenance tasks and you'd like
his help streamlining things. Throughout the week you could both come
up with tasks that need done. Then take him to a coffee shop as a
special treat and both of you hash them out, see if you can come up
with new ways of doing things that don't take so much time. Be
flexible and open to new ideas :-) See things in new ways. Don't say
no or that won't work. Do say, "Well, what about ..." so you can work
together with a full picture.

Joyce

sistergoddesselli

Amy -

Great question. I can't wait to hear what the group says.

Here's my take on it...

The feelings you describe - "desperation, disappointment and resentment" - indicate that you have some un-met needs.

However, "housecleaning" is a strategy for meeting a need, not the need itself.

I suspect that the actual need you have is for "support" and perhaps "empathy" - both types of "interdependence". You say, "I am working two jobs and am the only one in the household and do everything ( and do not have the time I had when I was married and not working to devote to him- but this is another issue)" and in that phrase I can really hear a sense of isolation, loss, and frustration with having to be totally independent.

So, perhaps you could simply share your feelings and needs with him.

You could say, "I am feeling resentful, desperate, and disappointed which tells me that I've got some unmet needs. I think those needs are for support and empathy. Sometimes I come to you to meet those needs. Although, you know, it may be up to me to find a way to get those needs meet somewhere else. I'd take any ideas or help you have to offer me."

You might be surprised to find out that he shares these needs with you, or that he has other needs he's been keeping inside as well that he decides to share with you now that you've opened up to him. After all, he suffered a loss as well.

Together the two of you may come up with a strategy to help meet your needs for support and empathy.

Or, you may have to come up with the strategy on your own. After all, you are responsible for meeting your own needs.

Or, he may stew on what you've said and come up with his own strategy to meet your needs, which can be such a delicious surprise as it will come straight from his heart to yours.

So, let go of asking for help around the house, and instead, open up to him with your feelings and needs.

Good luck!

Love,

Elli

N CONFER

I ask for help all the time. I ask politely but I ask.

And I don't have a perfect house.

So maybe a combination of asking for help and lowering your standards would help? :)

Nance




Asking for help

Posted by: "Amy"
avd@...
 

momofonespirit



Fri May 29, 2009 5:46 am (PDT)





I hesitated to ask for advice but I don't know a way of thinking about
this and decided to ask all of you wise unschoolers.



Is it wrong to ask for help with housework and responsibilities around the house from my 16 year old.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Amy" <avd@...> wrote:
>> I am working two jobs and am the only one in the household and do everything ( and do not have the time I had when I was married and not working to devote to him- but this is another issue).
**********************

There have been some wonderful posts so far, but I wanted to comment on this, specifically. It may be that this isn't another issue, but part of the same issue. As Elli commented, talking with him about your feelings and asking about his could be really valuable. Is it possible he's feeling overwhelmed and helpless and that's coming out in him not wanting to give help as a result? In fact, it might be a good idea to Not start out with "I'm feeling so stressed out..." when you try to open a conversation about all this. If he's feeling stressed, too, that could be the last thing he wants to hear (I don't know him, though, this is just me thinking back to My mother saying "I want help" to a dd who was feeling overwhelmed already!).

---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)

Debra Rossing

Have you discussed the changes in the situation? - really discussed
together because HIS situation has changed too, so you both need to
figure out a new dynamic to the household. At the same time, look
realistically at what can and can't happen - you may not be able to
handle vacuuming every other day like you used to or the dishes might
have to sit a day or the tub doesn't get cleaned but every other week
now. Things may not be "kept up" the way they were when you had more
available time to do them. Maybe cooking meals once a week and freezing
them so that you/he can heat'n'eat instead of home cooking daily. And so
on. A self-waterer for pets (and, if they won't eat themselves sick,
they have self-feeders for cats and dogs that work pretty much the same
way) so that the critters are somewhat independent of immediate daily
care - refilling the self-care facilities every few days or a week,
depending on number of critters is a lot less time involved than daily
caring (FWIW I put food down for dog(s) when I walk out the door to work
in the morning and when I walk in the door when I get home - food and
dish(es) are right there in the entry area - no cat, since a cat would
end up as dog food).

Deb R


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Amy Voss Dolce

Thank you for all the responses.

I know that there are as many ways to unschool as there are families,
but I wondered how other single parent families approached
unschooling....

Amy

Jana Smith

Hi Amy,
 
I am a single mom unschooling 2 of my 4 boys. I was a courier in CA for 7 mos.until 3 wks ago when we "hit the road" again.  WOOHOO!!!! Previously I was an OTR (Over The Road) truck driver and they were with me. The boys have been to every state, mostly just through them but a few highlights were visited i.e. Grand Canyon, Niagara Falls, St Louis Arch, Graceland, Mall of America, Statue of Liberty & NYC, Canada, deserts, mtns, plains etc. We are now enjoying our time away from schedules and other time restraints.  We are currently tenting our way up and down from CA (Redwoods, Monterey Bay Aquarium) to OR(hit a few state parks), WA(LIFE is Good Unschooling Conference), ID(my best friend from HS days lives there now and was going to go to Yellowstone with us, visited Craters of the Moon Nat'l Park), MT(Yellowstone), WY(Grand Tetons--currently doing laundry here while I'm e-mailing you), UT (plans for Lagoon waterpark in SLC, Arches Nat'l park & Bryce
Canyon), NV(meeting some unschooling friends from CA who are getting their timeshare for 2 wks and wanted us to spend a wk with them there in Las Vegas), AZ, NM, TX & OK to finally get to our RV that I bought last year when we got off our truck in Aug. we then went to the Bahamas for the boys b-day on a cruise and then headed off in the wild blue yonder.  My sister had some health issues which took us to CA to be with her and where we were "stuck" for those 8 mos of which 7 I had a j-o-b.  It sucked!  LOL  Now we are back to being even more free!! On June 24th we are going to be in Baltimore, MD to set up a fireworks booth for only 10 days in which we will profit $ 3,000-5,000.  We belong to yahoo group called FOTR (Families on the Road) and there I've found alot helpful info and guidance in being able to earn some income while doing what we love.......travel! The boys have made friends everywhere and stay in touch with them either in person
when passing through somewhere or their cell phones or miraculously the internet!!  I am also owner/moderator to an unschooling group for single parents, which is deathly slow.
Sooooo I hope that's been helpful info into what WE do as a single unschooling family who are just living our life, and enjoying it.  If you have more questions feel free to e-mail me privately but I think I've given enough info here. :)  Good luck on your journey........maybe we'll meet along the way! 
 
Jana --unschooling myself and living life fully with my 2 awesome guys Jake (13) & Josh (11)

--- On Tue, 6/2/09, Amy Voss Dolce <avd@...> wrote:











Thank you for all the responses.

I know that there are as many ways to unschool as there are families,
but I wondered how other single parent families approached
unschooling. ...

Amy


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

--- In [email protected], Amy Voss Dolce <avd@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for all the responses.
>
> I know that there are as many ways to unschool as there are families,
> but I wondered how other single parent families approached
> unschooling....
>
> Amy
>

My friend LeaAnn in Pensacola has unschooled three of her children for most of their lives (Aaron is now 22 I believe, so it's been a while).:)
She wasn't single the entire time (her dh died over 10 years ago though) but most of those years. She's been very creative in ways to make income and be available to her children. She currently has a cottage industry that is doing very well, selling handmade soaps, fulled and felted items: http://gatheringwoolonline.com/default.aspx

I was a single unschooling Mum during the six months my dh and I were separated in 2000. Not exactly the same, but I got a good taste of the unique challenges being a single parent presents!

Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com

Angela Bestwick

wow what a lovely life! i am sooo jelous
angie
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Jana Smith
Sent: 02 June 2009 17:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re:Asking for help





Hi Amy,

I am a single mom unschooling 2 of my 4 boys. I was a courier in CA for 7
mos.until 3 wks ago when we "hit the road" again. WOOHOO!!!! Previously I
was an OTR (Over The Road) truck driver and they were with me. The boys have
been to every state, mostly just through them but a few highlights were
visited i.e. Grand Canyon, Niagara Falls, St Louis Arch, Graceland, Mall of
America, Statue of Liberty & NYC, Canada, deserts, mtns, plains etc. We are
now enjoying our time away from schedules and other time restraints. We are
currently tenting our way up and down from CA (Redwoods, Monterey Bay
Aquarium) to OR(hit a few state parks), WA(LIFE is Good Unschooling
Conference), ID(my best friend from HS days lives there now and was going to
go to Yellowstone with us, visited Craters of the Moon Nat'l Park),
MT(Yellowstone), WY(Grand Tetons--currently doing laundry here while I'm
e-mailing you), UT (plans for Lagoon waterpark in SLC, Arches Nat'l park &
Bryce
Canyon), NV(meeting some unschooling friends from CA who are getting their
timeshare for 2 wks and wanted us to spend a wk with them there in Las
Vegas), AZ, NM, TX & OK to finally get to our RV that I bought last year
when we got off our truck in Aug. we then went to the Bahamas for the boys
b-day on a cruise and then headed off in the wild blue yonder. My sister
had some health issues which took us to CA to be with her and where we were
"stuck" for those 8 mos of which 7 I had a j-o-b. It sucked! LOL Now we
are back to being even more free!! On June 24th we are going to be in
Baltimore, MD to set up a fireworks booth for only 10 days in which we will
profit $ 3,000-5,000. We belong to yahoo group called FOTR (Families on the
Road) and there I've found alot helpful info and guidance in being able to
earn some income while doing what we love.......travel! The boys have made
friends everywhere and stay in touch with them either in person
when passing through somewhere or their cell phones or miraculously the
internet!! I am also owner/moderator to an unschooling group for single
parents, which is deathly slow.
Sooooo I hope that's been helpful info into what WE do as a single
unschooling family who are just living our life, and enjoying it. If you
have more questions feel free to e-mail me privately but I think I've given
enough info here. :) Good luck on your journey........maybe we'll meet
along the way!

Jana --unschooling myself and living life fully with my 2 awesome guys
Jake (13) & Josh (11)

--- On Tue, 6/2/09, Amy Voss Dolce <avd@...> wrote:

Thank you for all the responses.

I know that there are as many ways to unschool as there are families,
but I wondered how other single parent families approached
unschooling. ...

Amy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Susan Burgess

Hi Amy,

I've been a single parent for 2 years now, my son is 20 and out of the
house, and my 2 girls are 15 and 11. After my ex moved out, I took a bit of
time to recover my equilibrium, then I got a part time job, I was only
working 15-20 hours a week and I hated it. I can understand why you are so
overwhelmed with you working 2 jobs! What Ren said about her friend getting
creative in ways to make income is a great idea. Are there things that you
like to do that could bring you a decent income, but allow you to be home
more, therefore having more time for yourself, your kids and your house? I
got my certification to be a Postpartum Doula and to teach infant soothing
classes. I can set my own schedule and not work more than 20 hours a week,
yet still bring in a good income. Definitely worth looking into. It's so
worth it to be able to find a way to enjoy the Now!

Also, I think the advice that Deb gave was great also. Do you know how he is
feelingand have you talked to him about what you're feeling? I don't know
how long you've been a single parent, but you might be suprised the affect
on him. Once I went to work part-time, my girls had a hard time. It wasn't
the divorce that was hard for them, but me being gone. I had been a stay at
home mom their whole lives, and my older daughter, Kianne, took on too much
responsibility while I was away, that was very hard on her. That was when I
decided to quit and focus on my own businesses. Now, I know when I do go to
work, (I keep putting it off, lol) we will handle it better this time
around!

It's just this year that my girls and I have settled into really living
unschooling and it is a huge relief to all of us. I found that after a bit
of time, I didn't mind that I was the one doing the majority of the work, it
was actually better. I wasn't nagging, creating an unhappy environment for
all of us. Now, when I am feeling overwhelmed and need some help, I just
ask, I usually get a more than willing yes from one or both of them. Now
that they aren't being made to do "chores", and honestly there weren't that
many prior to our unschooling discovery, they do what they do much easier
and happier. And, now when I clean up, unless it's the kitchen, they hate
doing the kitchen, lol, they will often help pick up as I am doing, or start
a load of laundry when we are running out of clothes, things like that. Plus
the fact that we are all ok living in a fairly messy house, occasionally
doing a great clean, which is mostly done by me, but that's ok. It did take
time though, not only deschooling, but adjusting to this new life as a
different family. Which is now a much happier family!

Hope that helped a bit, feel free to ask more!

On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:

>
>
> --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Amy Voss Dolce <avd@...> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for all the responses.
> >
> > I know that there are as many ways to unschool as there are families,
> > but I wondered how other single parent families approached
> > unschooling....
> >
> > Amy
> >
>
> My friend LeaAnn in Pensacola has unschooled three of her children for most
> of their lives (Aaron is now 22 I believe, so it's been a while).:)
> She wasn't single the entire time (her dh died over 10 years ago though)
> but most of those years. She's been very creative in ways to make income and
> be available to her children. She currently has a cottage industry that is
> doing very well, selling handmade soaps, fulled and felted items:
> http://gatheringwoolonline.com/default.aspx
>
> I was a single unschooling Mum during the six months my dh and I were
> separated in 2000. Not exactly the same, but I got a good taste of the
> unique challenges being a single parent presents!
>
> Ren
> radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], Susan Burgess <susands@...> wrote:
>Now
> that they aren't being made to do "chores", and honestly there weren't that
> many prior to our unschooling discovery, they do what they do much easier
> and happier.

This is an important point - there don't have to be very many "chores" for there to be resentment over the issue. When Ray first came back from living with his bio mom we only asked him to do one thing, wash some dishes every day. We tried to be clear that we were asking, not telling him, and he *said* he wanted to help - but over time resentment built anyway. We kept expecting him to do dishes and reminding him to do them, and it gradually began to seem, to all of us, more like nagging than reminding. He started doing less dishes, and doing a half-a'ed job. So we stopped reminding, stopped even mentioning dishes. George and I were imediately happier - we weren't nagging any more! Doing the dishes stopped being an Issue. It was probably a year, though, before Ray washed a dish again. Now he'll walk into the kitchen and start doing dishes entirely on his own. And now and again, when things are really piling up, we'll ask and he's happy to help out.

---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)

carenkh

Hi, Amy -

I've been a single mom for over 5 years now; we've been unschooling for 9 years.

When my husband and I first separated, I was determined to keep unschooling. We lived on a very minimal budget, and I found work where I could. I worked with a temp. bartending service on the weekends the boys were with their dads, trying to get as many hours in as I could when they were not home. I did odd jobs here and there, babysat, helped a friend paint her house...

All the while, learning more about radical unschooling, getting more and more in tune with my boys. I lucked into a job a few years ago... a friend needed someone to work in his office 10 - 15 hours a week. I talked it over with the boys, and they were OK with me going in. On the second day there, I realized it was a job I could do from home, and I went into my boss's office and asked if he would be willing to look at that. He was, I got a home office set up a few months later, and I've been with them ever since.

Both boys' dads are in their lives, and I've gotten regular child support all along (with a couple of exceptions, that were dealt with quickly). I have asked my friends for financial help several times. This wasn't a time that I could afford to be too proud to ask. I wouldn't have made it without that help. When I'm more stable, I'd love to set up an unschoolers help fund, a pot of money that would be used to help unschoolers in need. Right now, I need to focus on my family.

Over the past few months, I've realized as grateful as I am for this job, I'm not liking how unavailable I am as I'm working. I can do things for the boys, take frequent breaks, there's a lot of flexibility with my hours... but there are still several hours every weekday that I'm not available to really BE with them.

I'm working with a life coach to help me reach my dream job, which would let me be with the boys more, earning a lot more per hour so I could work fewer hours.

I'm trusting that as their needs change, I can recognize that and change things up, go with the flow to make a life we all love.

It's not perfect, but it's perfectly ours and it's really, really good. We need a car, now - I've been without one for some time. My oldest has reached a point where he wants to be around people more, so I'm trying to figure out how to make that happen. My youngest has always been social; we live in a neighborhood with kids his age so he's been able to play with them after their school time and on weekends. We would all benefit from being around unschoolers more, so I'm keeping my eyes out for a miracle vehicle, and in the meantime learning how to save. I've had to grow up a lot, in a lot of different ways, to make this work.

There's been an undercurrent lately in some unschooling messages that if you don't have a perfect life, you're not doing your kids any favors by unschooling. I call bulls**t. My boys love unschooling, and the freedom it provides. It's not just for privileged, two-parent families.

They see through their schooled friends what they would have dealt with in school, and are very grateful to have lived our unconventional life instead. We talk a lot about choices - we just had to take our kitty to the vet, and sadly, had to have him put down. Before we took him in, the boys said they'd rather pay the vet bill than the cable bill; he was definitely more important than Nicktoons Network and the DVR. Would I like to provide both? Yes, and I'm seeing if I can get some extra hours to do that. But if I can't, it will be OK, we'll work it out. We always do.

peace,
Caren

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jun 6, 2009, at 8:16 AM, carenkh wrote:

> There's been an undercurrent lately in some unschooling messages
> that if you don't have a perfect life, you're not doing your kids
> any favors by unschooling.

Maybe that got read into what was said, but no one intended that.

What people were saying was that when there's a *choice* between
better and not so good, not so good isn't as good as better.

You might be referring to the daycare? If the daycare were a
necessity to bring in money, then daycare might be better than other
options like working outside the home. She got to stay home with her
kids. That's a better thing than being gone. :-) But if the daycare
isn't a necessity, the downsides may not outweigh the negatives.

I think women were handed a huge disservice by the idea that daycare
is just as good as being at home. It's not. It can't be. But daycare
is better than the whole family living under a bridge in a box. (If
those aren't the only two options!)

You do what's best with the options you have. But if you don't
examine the negatives of what you're choosing you can't choose better
if something else comes along.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]