Transitioning from Rules to Principles with young kids
Angela Wolff
The idea of principles instead of rules really resonates with me, but I'm not sure how to make the transition with my young kids. Not that rules and punishments have solved the problems of siblings being disrespectful of each other's feelings/bodies/belongings or have kept my 4YO from drawing on the walls/toys/books every time she finds a pen lying around and slips out of view with it, of course ... but with "rules and punishments" I know what to do *in the moment*.
So, with a 7YO, 4YO and 18MO, where do you begin?
Thanks,
Angela
So, with a 7YO, 4YO and 18MO, where do you begin?
Thanks,
Angela
Joyce Fetteroll
On May 7, 2009, at 12:38 PM, Angela Wolff wrote:
about seeing how kids are broken and how they need fixed. It's about
being grounded and whole in your principles and helping your children
do what they're trying to do in ways that are safe and kind and
respectful.
You're not trying to impose safety and kindness and respect on them.
That's the big stumbling point for most people, I think. As in "How
can I get them to be kind?" You're using those principles to help
your kids meet their needs in ways that keep with your principles.
Assume they want the same thing. Assume they don't want to be unsafe
or hurtful. (We are biologically social creatures. We want to get
along with others. But we also want our needs met. Kids just don't
have a head full of solutions that allow them to meet their needs
*and* be safe and kind. So we help them. We give them ideas, we give
them solutions, we brainstorm with them. Make them part of the
solution rather than turning them into the problem.
Sandra has a good page on principles:
http://sandradodd.com/principles/
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
It will help you find more principle based solutions if you see that
they aren't being disrespectful. They have a need and they're trying
to meet it.
It could be they're not getting enough space. It could be they're not
getting enough of your time one on one. It could be they're tired. Or
hungry.
The more you read, the more you'll help yourself see a bigger picture
of building relationships and helping them find ways to meet their
needs, rather than focusing on fixing the ways they're being "wrong".
as specific solutions to this problem.
See that your daughter isn't wrong in her need. She has an
overwhelming desire to draw on all sorts of surfaces. You can't stop
this desire. You can, though, ramp up her need by putting up barriers
between her and what she needs. Just as telling someone they can't
eat doesn't make the hunger go away. It just makes them hungry *and*
desperate.
See, also, that it's okay that you want to direct her away from
drawing on some things and towards drawing on others. *She* doesn't
want to be destructive. She just doesn't understand. (And it's
possible she can't yet understand or can't yet funnel the desire to
things that are acceptable.)
Do say no. She shouldn't be drawing on the flat screen TV with
marker! ;-) But the fewer nos she hears, the more powerful they are.
Give her the clear message, no, not there and move on to meeting her
needs. She needs to color. Help her find ways she *can* color rather
than focus on ways she can't color. Help her find safe and acceptable
outlets. Be her partner.
Give her access to places she can color. Lots of different kinds of
opportunities. Painting outside with washable paint. Painting with
water with big brushes on the house and driveway. Sidewalk chalk.
Painting on big paper in the bathtub. Cover the walls with paper.
(There are loads of more ideas in the archives.) Feed her desire.
Since it's important to you that she not draw on things, *one* way to
accomplish that is to be more present. She shouldn't be alone long
enough to be coloring on things. You should be aware of when she has
the urge to color and help her find ways that are acceptable. (Being
more present is pretty much the first answer to almost all parenting
problems. It's not the only answer. Sometimes we have to go to the
bathroom! ;-) But the more that can be proactively avoided, the fewer
problems you need to find solutions to! And the more peaceful life is
and the more relationships grow.)
Also, since it's important to you, be more diligent about keeping
markers that will damage things put away.
Another is to elicit help from the 7 yo. You are *not* handing over
the responsibility to him. If he leaves a marker out, it's still your
responsibility to put it away. He's not being conscripted into your
task! But approach it as "Let's get these put away so your sister
doesn't use them on things we don't want her to." Engage his help.
Invite him to be part of the solution. But it is freely given help,
not a responsibility foisted onto him.
Yes, this is a lot of work! But it's so much more peaceful, so much
better at building relationships than being reactive to children's
"faults".
Much of this is proactive, creating an environment where she isn't
set up to fail. This isn't about being perfect! Oopses do happen. But
see the oopses as "learning takes" as Kelly calls them, or "feedback"
as Pam once said. They happen to help you figure out solutions that
might prevent it for next time. And when feedback does happen, you'll
be able to handle it more calmly -- and focus on the real immediate
problem of getting it cleaned up rather than on how "wrong" the child
was -- because the feedback's not happing 20 times a day.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The idea of principles instead of rules really resonates with me,Living by unschooling principles involves a mental shift. It's not
> but I'm not sure how to make the transition with my young kids.
about seeing how kids are broken and how they need fixed. It's about
being grounded and whole in your principles and helping your children
do what they're trying to do in ways that are safe and kind and
respectful.
You're not trying to impose safety and kindness and respect on them.
That's the big stumbling point for most people, I think. As in "How
can I get them to be kind?" You're using those principles to help
your kids meet their needs in ways that keep with your principles.
Assume they want the same thing. Assume they don't want to be unsafe
or hurtful. (We are biologically social creatures. We want to get
along with others. But we also want our needs met. Kids just don't
have a head full of solutions that allow them to meet their needs
*and* be safe and kind. So we help them. We give them ideas, we give
them solutions, we brainstorm with them. Make them part of the
solution rather than turning them into the problem.
Sandra has a good page on principles:
http://sandradodd.com/principles/
> Not that rules and punishments have solved the problems of siblingsThis might help:
> being disrespectful of each other's feelings/bodies/belongings
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
It will help you find more principle based solutions if you see that
they aren't being disrespectful. They have a need and they're trying
to meet it.
It could be they're not getting enough space. It could be they're not
getting enough of your time one on one. It could be they're tired. Or
hungry.
The more you read, the more you'll help yourself see a bigger picture
of building relationships and helping them find ways to meet their
needs, rather than focusing on fixing the ways they're being "wrong".
> of have kept my 4YO from drawing on the walls/toys/books every timeSee the following more as how principles look in action rather than
> she finds a pen lying around and slips out of view with it, of course
as specific solutions to this problem.
See that your daughter isn't wrong in her need. She has an
overwhelming desire to draw on all sorts of surfaces. You can't stop
this desire. You can, though, ramp up her need by putting up barriers
between her and what she needs. Just as telling someone they can't
eat doesn't make the hunger go away. It just makes them hungry *and*
desperate.
See, also, that it's okay that you want to direct her away from
drawing on some things and towards drawing on others. *She* doesn't
want to be destructive. She just doesn't understand. (And it's
possible she can't yet understand or can't yet funnel the desire to
things that are acceptable.)
Do say no. She shouldn't be drawing on the flat screen TV with
marker! ;-) But the fewer nos she hears, the more powerful they are.
Give her the clear message, no, not there and move on to meeting her
needs. She needs to color. Help her find ways she *can* color rather
than focus on ways she can't color. Help her find safe and acceptable
outlets. Be her partner.
Give her access to places she can color. Lots of different kinds of
opportunities. Painting outside with washable paint. Painting with
water with big brushes on the house and driveway. Sidewalk chalk.
Painting on big paper in the bathtub. Cover the walls with paper.
(There are loads of more ideas in the archives.) Feed her desire.
Since it's important to you that she not draw on things, *one* way to
accomplish that is to be more present. She shouldn't be alone long
enough to be coloring on things. You should be aware of when she has
the urge to color and help her find ways that are acceptable. (Being
more present is pretty much the first answer to almost all parenting
problems. It's not the only answer. Sometimes we have to go to the
bathroom! ;-) But the more that can be proactively avoided, the fewer
problems you need to find solutions to! And the more peaceful life is
and the more relationships grow.)
Also, since it's important to you, be more diligent about keeping
markers that will damage things put away.
Another is to elicit help from the 7 yo. You are *not* handing over
the responsibility to him. If he leaves a marker out, it's still your
responsibility to put it away. He's not being conscripted into your
task! But approach it as "Let's get these put away so your sister
doesn't use them on things we don't want her to." Engage his help.
Invite him to be part of the solution. But it is freely given help,
not a responsibility foisted onto him.
Yes, this is a lot of work! But it's so much more peaceful, so much
better at building relationships than being reactive to children's
"faults".
Much of this is proactive, creating an environment where she isn't
set up to fail. This isn't about being perfect! Oopses do happen. But
see the oopses as "learning takes" as Kelly calls them, or "feedback"
as Pam once said. They happen to help you figure out solutions that
might prevent it for next time. And when feedback does happen, you'll
be able to handle it more calmly -- and focus on the real immediate
problem of getting it cleaned up rather than on how "wrong" the child
was -- because the feedback's not happing 20 times a day.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bethany
One of my favorite books on this topic is called Connection Parenting, written by Pam Leo. You might have already read it. It's not unschooling-focused, but it totally describes what you're talking about. I'm taking a class on this right now and it is exactly what I've needed.
~Bethany
~Bethany
swissarmy_wife
--- In [email protected], "Angela Wolff" <argwolff@...> wrote:
-Heather
========================================================================
> So, with a 7YO, 4YO and 18MO, where do you begin?******With yourself. <G> I don't think in my house we have any clearly defined principles. But I do live by my own that I feel are important.
-Heather
========================================================================
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Angela Wolff" <argwolff@...> wrote:
* Water based markers are fun on windows and wash off easily - make your own stained glass! Glass cookware can be fun with this, too.
*Kids' paints are fun around the house, too. Paint the bathtub and shower curtains. If you have linoleum, paint the floor.
*Those laminated board books are great for drawing with crayons - the crayon rubs off with a rag. Other plastic surfaces are fun with crayon in the same way.
*In addition to papering the walls and floors, consider getting some plain white fabric or even tshirts to decorate with markers.
*Its a good time to buy sidewalk chalk! Then she can draw on almost anything any time. If you want something more elegant, consider chalkboard paint on a wall. It comes in all kinds of colors these days.
*4yos often like cleaning as much as making the mess - if you make cleaning part of the fun, too. Make sure you have step stools and rags and safe cleaning products like soapy water or vinegar.
Part of the process (a Big part) involves looking inside yourself and asking "why do I have a problem with this?" There are some things... eating in certain places and certain times, for instance, that are cultural expectations - things we can bend and change to suit the needs of the individuals and moments. Other things, expectations of certain kinds of behavior, frequently aren't developmentally appropriate. You can force-train some kids to do those things, but other kids insist on acting their age all the time - go figure! So it can be helpful to think and read and ask about *when* kids can be expected to do certain things consistently. Certain kinds of "responsible behaviors" come to mind. It can seem like "responsibility" is taught through repetition, but to a large degree, its developmental. Kids *seem* to learn it, when really they just mature, and suddenly "get it".
Other things, like hurting siblings, aren't really negotiable. Naturally, you want All your children to be safe. Those sorts of situations you look for ways to diffuse - ways to meet the Needs of the people involved as best you can in the moment. So the hitting child may need a snack, or some attention (and you make a mental note to look for the signs of that Sooner, next time - more proactivity) and the hurt child might need a cuddle or some verbal affirmation. If there's an issue with toys, is it possible to trade one toy for another to diffuse the situation? Do some toys need to be kept in a special area, away from younger children? Maybe its worth buying two or three of the same toy for the sake of less conflict.
The main idea with principles, is that you aren't so much "applying" them as trying to live by them. If you value generosity, for instance, look for ways to be more generous to your family and yourself, too. It sounds a little crazy to say "when your kids are being obnoxious to each other, look for a way to be generous" but really, when kids are at their worst, they are often at times of higher need (just like adults, we aren't at our best under stress, either). Being generous meets the underlying needs.
In the moment, some things that help are: taking deep, slow breaths, waiting a few seconds for your first "reaction" to pass (if things get physical, get Between fighting kids, but maybe don't say anything right away), and remembering that everyone is doing the best they can with what they have.
And when "the moment" goes sour, know that you can always apologise.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
>> So, with a 7YO, 4YO and 18MO, where do you begin?Begin by actively looking for ways to think ahead, plan ahead, be more proactive rather than reactive. Soooooo many of the "what do I do when x happens?" sorts of questions can be turned around: "knowing that x is likely to happen, what can I do to make it less of a problem?"
>>my 4YO from drawing on the walls/toys/books every time she finds a pen lying around and slips out of view with itBeing proactive in this case involves having lots and lots of places where its Okay to write - get a roll of paper from an art or school supply store and paper the walls with it! Actively offer her toys and books that no-one minds seeing a little pen on. Throw a million opportunities a day to write and draw at her, so she's not in the position of sneaking off with a writing utensil. There's always something on hand that's okay - to the point that when she Starts to write on something else, you can say "Oh do that here, instead" - turn your "no" into a "yes". Get the 7yo involved in this game - how many things can we think of for sissy to draw on today? Wanna join the fun?
* Water based markers are fun on windows and wash off easily - make your own stained glass! Glass cookware can be fun with this, too.
*Kids' paints are fun around the house, too. Paint the bathtub and shower curtains. If you have linoleum, paint the floor.
*Those laminated board books are great for drawing with crayons - the crayon rubs off with a rag. Other plastic surfaces are fun with crayon in the same way.
*In addition to papering the walls and floors, consider getting some plain white fabric or even tshirts to decorate with markers.
*Its a good time to buy sidewalk chalk! Then she can draw on almost anything any time. If you want something more elegant, consider chalkboard paint on a wall. It comes in all kinds of colors these days.
*4yos often like cleaning as much as making the mess - if you make cleaning part of the fun, too. Make sure you have step stools and rags and safe cleaning products like soapy water or vinegar.
Part of the process (a Big part) involves looking inside yourself and asking "why do I have a problem with this?" There are some things... eating in certain places and certain times, for instance, that are cultural expectations - things we can bend and change to suit the needs of the individuals and moments. Other things, expectations of certain kinds of behavior, frequently aren't developmentally appropriate. You can force-train some kids to do those things, but other kids insist on acting their age all the time - go figure! So it can be helpful to think and read and ask about *when* kids can be expected to do certain things consistently. Certain kinds of "responsible behaviors" come to mind. It can seem like "responsibility" is taught through repetition, but to a large degree, its developmental. Kids *seem* to learn it, when really they just mature, and suddenly "get it".
Other things, like hurting siblings, aren't really negotiable. Naturally, you want All your children to be safe. Those sorts of situations you look for ways to diffuse - ways to meet the Needs of the people involved as best you can in the moment. So the hitting child may need a snack, or some attention (and you make a mental note to look for the signs of that Sooner, next time - more proactivity) and the hurt child might need a cuddle or some verbal affirmation. If there's an issue with toys, is it possible to trade one toy for another to diffuse the situation? Do some toys need to be kept in a special area, away from younger children? Maybe its worth buying two or three of the same toy for the sake of less conflict.
The main idea with principles, is that you aren't so much "applying" them as trying to live by them. If you value generosity, for instance, look for ways to be more generous to your family and yourself, too. It sounds a little crazy to say "when your kids are being obnoxious to each other, look for a way to be generous" but really, when kids are at their worst, they are often at times of higher need (just like adults, we aren't at our best under stress, either). Being generous meets the underlying needs.
In the moment, some things that help are: taking deep, slow breaths, waiting a few seconds for your first "reaction" to pass (if things get physical, get Between fighting kids, but maybe don't say anything right away), and remembering that everyone is doing the best they can with what they have.
And when "the moment" goes sour, know that you can always apologise.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)