Anon post; help with reluctant dh
Ren Allen
I am posting this anonymously for someone that I've been talking with offline. I wanted her to get the benefit of many voices, so here it is:
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi again, Ren. I was wondering if unschooling was what caused problems in your marriage? Like you wanting to do it, and your dh not...
I just pulled two of my kids out of school. The other two want to stay in right now. Dh is having BIG problems with that, and the fact that I desire to unschool. He seems to have decided that we tried unschooling, it didn't work, and he's not willing to go there again.
It's a stretch to even get him to "let" me make our curriculum, instead of doing an online public school... I am really stuck right now. The kids are used to me radically unschooling, no chores, etc... and they are pretty much refusing to do anything that they did not decide to do.
If I ask for help, most of them cringe, or say no.
The house is always a wreck, crumbs, food, trash, toys on the floor, etc.. Dh is quietly fuming, and I am just beside myself. I want the kids to be able to decide how to live, but I don't feel that they want to do anything for us at all..., and Dh basically wants to re-enforce our Parental Authority...
Any suggestions?
Helpless (at least I feel that way),
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi again, Ren. I was wondering if unschooling was what caused problems in your marriage? Like you wanting to do it, and your dh not...
I just pulled two of my kids out of school. The other two want to stay in right now. Dh is having BIG problems with that, and the fact that I desire to unschool. He seems to have decided that we tried unschooling, it didn't work, and he's not willing to go there again.
It's a stretch to even get him to "let" me make our curriculum, instead of doing an online public school... I am really stuck right now. The kids are used to me radically unschooling, no chores, etc... and they are pretty much refusing to do anything that they did not decide to do.
If I ask for help, most of them cringe, or say no.
The house is always a wreck, crumbs, food, trash, toys on the floor, etc.. Dh is quietly fuming, and I am just beside myself. I want the kids to be able to decide how to live, but I don't feel that they want to do anything for us at all..., and Dh basically wants to re-enforce our Parental Authority...
Any suggestions?
Helpless (at least I feel that way),
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ren Allen
~~I am posting this anonymously for someone that I've been talking with offline.~~
That should have read "offlist" not "offline". Not that it matters much but felt the need to clarify.
Apparently I should get some sleep soon....or maybe it was too much "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" tonight. Yep, turning the brain to mush and all.;)
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
That should have read "offlist" not "offline". Not that it matters much but felt the need to clarify.
Apparently I should get some sleep soon....or maybe it was too much "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" tonight. Yep, turning the brain to mush and all.;)
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 9, 2009, at 12:24 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
could lead to divorce and it's very very likely a judge will decide
the kids need to be in school. If you can't work with him now, it
will be *really* difficult to work with him under divorce.
That doesn't mean you have only two choices: do what he tells you to
or defy him Work with him rather than against him.
Read here:
http://sandradodd.com/partners/
Write them down. Take them seriously. Treat his concerns with the
same respect you give your kids or your best friend even if you don't
agree.
Find solutions that will help him deal with his fears. If you can't
see a way, bring them to the list.
How you ask for help has a huge impact. If you are pleading or
begging or commanding, you're going to get the response you'd expect
from adults which is reluctance. *I* want to be away from dictators
as soon as possible. I also want to be away from desperate people
because their desperation feels graspy, like they want others to
sweep their problems away for them. I don't want to get sucked into
that.
If you state "I need some help" as a fact and hold onto that calm
tone throughout, it will help a lot.
inviting? Or are you asking out of desperation?
How are you when you're doing chores? Are you angry and grumpy? Are
you a person they want to avoid? Do you wait to do chores until you
can't stand the sight of something?
How are you after they help? Do you thank them sincerely as you would
a friend who went out of their way to help you? If it's a big chore,
do you reward yourselves?
something that's bothering him.
Don't go for perfect and spotless. Go for less of a wreck. Study the
individual parts of the mess and see the causes and seek solutions
for each piece. If there are crumbs have the kids eat crumbly things
just in the kitchen. Get bins for the toys to make them easier to
clean up. Get more trash cans.
It seems Suzy 50's Homemaker, but he needs home to feel like a haven
or he may decide he'd rather not come home. *Then* what will you do?
But don't do it out of fear. Do it as a gift to him.
It would probably help if you signed onto the Peaceful Partnerships
list. (It's on the page linked above.)
The Flylady list would help too.
do something for you.
If you want their help, hold onto responsibility for the chores.
Invite them with the same attitude you would a friend. Make the
experience at least pleasant for them. Set a timer and just do 15
minutes. They won't help until you're a person they want to help!
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Hi again, Ren. I was wondering if unschooling was what causedIf you allow unschooling to come between you and your husband, it
> problems in your marriage? Like you wanting to do it, and your dh
> not...
could lead to divorce and it's very very likely a judge will decide
the kids need to be in school. If you can't work with him now, it
will be *really* difficult to work with him under divorce.
That doesn't mean you have only two choices: do what he tells you to
or defy him Work with him rather than against him.
Read here:
http://sandradodd.com/partners/
> I just pulled two of my kids out of school. The other two want toWhat are his concerns and fears? Ask him. Don't argue or discuss.
> stay in right now. Dh is having BIG problems with that, and the
> fact that I desire to unschool. He seems to have decided that we
> tried unschooling, it didn't work, and he's not willing to go there
> again.
Write them down. Take them seriously. Treat his concerns with the
same respect you give your kids or your best friend even if you don't
agree.
Find solutions that will help him deal with his fears. If you can't
see a way, bring them to the list.
> It's a stretch to even get him to "let" me make our curriculum,How old are they?
> instead of doing an online public school... I am really stuck right
> now. The kids are used to me radically unschooling, no chores,
> etc... and they are pretty much refusing to do anything that they
> did not decide to do.
How you ask for help has a huge impact. If you are pleading or
begging or commanding, you're going to get the response you'd expect
from adults which is reluctance. *I* want to be away from dictators
as soon as possible. I also want to be away from desperate people
because their desperation feels graspy, like they want others to
sweep their problems away for them. I don't want to get sucked into
that.
If you state "I need some help" as a fact and hold onto that calm
tone throughout, it will help a lot.
> If I ask for help, most of them cringe, or say no.How are you asking? Are you asking in a way that's positive and
inviting? Or are you asking out of desperation?
How are you when you're doing chores? Are you angry and grumpy? Are
you a person they want to avoid? Do you wait to do chores until you
can't stand the sight of something?
How are you after they help? Do you thank them sincerely as you would
a friend who went out of their way to help you? If it's a big chore,
do you reward yourselves?
> The house is always a wreck, crumbs, food, trash, toys on theDon't get beside yourself. Direct your energy to the chores. It's
> floor, etc.. Dh is quietly fuming, and I am just beside myself.
something that's bothering him.
Don't go for perfect and spotless. Go for less of a wreck. Study the
individual parts of the mess and see the causes and seek solutions
for each piece. If there are crumbs have the kids eat crumbly things
just in the kitchen. Get bins for the toys to make them easier to
clean up. Get more trash cans.
It seems Suzy 50's Homemaker, but he needs home to feel like a haven
or he may decide he'd rather not come home. *Then* what will you do?
But don't do it out of fear. Do it as a gift to him.
It would probably help if you signed onto the Peaceful Partnerships
list. (It's on the page linked above.)
The Flylady list would help too.
> I want the kids to be able to decide how to live, but I don't feelYou can't hold onto both wanting them to decide and wanting them to
> that they want to do anything for us at all..., and Dh basically
> wants to re-enforce our Parental Authority...
do something for you.
If you want their help, hold onto responsibility for the chores.
Invite them with the same attitude you would a friend. Make the
experience at least pleasant for them. Set a timer and just do 15
minutes. They won't help until you're a person they want to help!
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~Don't get beside yourself. Direct your energy to the chores. It's
something that's bothering him.
Don't go for perfect and spotless. Go for less of a wreck.~~
I was pondering whether he is open to letting the family know of the areas that bother him the most, or an area that is just for HIM. My dh used to be so uptight about a clean house (still is, he just doesn't direct it at us now) so we always made sure he had his own space in every house we purchased. A space that we left to him and he could keep exactly how he wanted. It really cut back on his (and therefore our) stress levels about neatness.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
something that's bothering him.
Don't go for perfect and spotless. Go for less of a wreck.~~
I was pondering whether he is open to letting the family know of the areas that bother him the most, or an area that is just for HIM. My dh used to be so uptight about a clean house (still is, he just doesn't direct it at us now) so we always made sure he had his own space in every house we purchased. A space that we left to him and he could keep exactly how he wanted. It really cut back on his (and therefore our) stress levels about neatness.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
amflowers71
I know 2 large home school families living in small inner city homes where one room of the already small house is set aside for Dad. This may sound "selfish" of him, however the wives are very keen to facilitate "Dad's room" as it releases a lot of the pressure on the Mum and family to keep the whole house in order. Dad has a haven to go to when he comes home, somewhere to eat in peace if that's what he needs, somewhere to bring guests that isn't choc full of the children's messes, somewhere where his stuff won't get messed up or broken.
Both Mums say they love the Dad having his own room (which by the way, are usually choc full of the Dad's own mess!!!) as the pressure to keep on top of the house is lifted.
Both Mums say they love the Dad having his own room (which by the way, are usually choc full of the Dad's own mess!!!) as the pressure to keep on top of the house is lifted.
Verna
> The house is always a wreck, crumbs, food, trash, toys on the floor, etc.. Dh is quietly fuming, and I am just beside myself. I want the kids to be able to decide how to live, but I don't feel that they want to do anything for us at all..., and Dh basically wants to re-enforce our Parental Authority...I work a couple evenings a week. otherwise I am home and my husband works days. I started noticing that when I came home from work and the dishes from dinner were still on the table and food is out it puts me in a bad mood quicker than anything. It really made me realize that although my husband rarely says anything directly to me about the house, just doing something like making sure the living room is clear when he comes in helped alot with his attitude.
> Any suggestions?
> Helpless (at least I feel that way),
Sometimes he feels like the kids have just totally taken over. We have no space that is off limits and it kind of drives him crazy and I understand honestly. Luckily he isnt a neat freak at all. So I try to have the space when he comes in pretty clear. I sometimes pile all the stuff in the middle of the floor and ask the kids to put it in their rooms. Takes each of them about 5 minutes and then I vacuum. It isnt perfect but it is alot less cluttered. I also organized our entrance way. Put cubbies in so everybody has space for their shoes, coats, sports equipment. If they dont put it away it doesnt take me more that a minute.
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I agree with all that was said about dad getting crabby with the chaos in the house.
My dh is far far and I mean far from being a neat freak but I think it got to him when I kept saying the house was a mess
or he could not find his stuff.
So I got better tools at keeping his stuff safe and the house less chaotic.
It still gets messy but it is not as bad as it has gotten before
and I stoped complaining so he does not have to be mad because I am mad. Does it make sense?
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My dh is far far and I mean far from being a neat freak but I think it got to him when I kept saying the house was a mess
or he could not find his stuff.
So I got better tools at keeping his stuff safe and the house less chaotic.
It still gets messy but it is not as bad as it has gotten before
and I stoped complaining so he does not have to be mad because I am mad. Does it make sense?
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
--- In [email protected], "Verna" <lalow@...> wrote:
Another idea (additional to what you've got working, for anyone reading through) might be to have color coded bins where you can toss the 'stuff' so they can just haul the bin to their rooms quickly and sort it later on if they choose. You get the floor clean enough to vacuum, stuff is tidy and easy to put away. We'll even just stack a couple bins (they close/have lids) over in a corner if necessary - out of the way, looks tidy and deliberate, and we can put stuff on top of it even...then again, back when we lived in an apartment with little storage space and KNEW we'd be moving within a couple years, DH tucked tchatchkas that we knew we weren't going to need/unpack plus empty boxes that we wanted to keep into the bigger boxes (like the big Gateway cow boxes), put a sheet of wood on top (inexpensive pastry or puzzle boards are good), tossed an old solid color table cloth over top and voila - end tables we could put lamps on!
[Parenthetically, we moved into our house in 2001 - at which time one of the items we moved was my old still working stereo which I got as a gift in the fall of 1980 - it was moved in the ORIGINAL box! lol]
--Deb
>I sometimes pile all the stuff in the middle of the floor and ask the kids to put it in their rooms. Takes each of them about 5 minutes and then I vacuum. It isnt perfect but it is alot less cluttered.
Another idea (additional to what you've got working, for anyone reading through) might be to have color coded bins where you can toss the 'stuff' so they can just haul the bin to their rooms quickly and sort it later on if they choose. You get the floor clean enough to vacuum, stuff is tidy and easy to put away. We'll even just stack a couple bins (they close/have lids) over in a corner if necessary - out of the way, looks tidy and deliberate, and we can put stuff on top of it even...then again, back when we lived in an apartment with little storage space and KNEW we'd be moving within a couple years, DH tucked tchatchkas that we knew we weren't going to need/unpack plus empty boxes that we wanted to keep into the bigger boxes (like the big Gateway cow boxes), put a sheet of wood on top (inexpensive pastry or puzzle boards are good), tossed an old solid color table cloth over top and voila - end tables we could put lamps on!
[Parenthetically, we moved into our house in 2001 - at which time one of the items we moved was my old still working stereo which I got as a gift in the fall of 1980 - it was moved in the ORIGINAL box! lol]
--Deb
Heather & Markus Schleidt
I would second this! My husband has an office and he is usually pretty good about the kids going anywhere in the house, but he keeps his office sacred. This is where he retreats when the house is a mess (although so is his office, but it is his!) and when the noise, etc gets too much for him. We try and respect this as much as possible because he is pretty lenient on everything else.
To: [email protected]
From: cattyaf71@...
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:57:12 +0000
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Anon post; help with reluctant dh
I know 2 large home school families living in small inner city homes where one room of the already small house is set aside for Dad. This may sound "selfish" of him, however the wives are very keen to facilitate "Dad's room" as it releases a lot of the pressure on the Mum and family to keep the whole house in order. Dad has a haven to go to when he comes home, somewhere to eat in peace if that's what he needs, somewhere to bring guests that isn't choc full of the children's messes, somewhere where his stuff won't get messed up or broken.
Both Mums say they love the Dad having his own room (which by the way, are usually choc full of the Dad's own mess!!!) as the pressure to keep on top of the house is lifted.
_________________________________________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®.
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To: [email protected]
From: cattyaf71@...
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:57:12 +0000
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Anon post; help with reluctant dh
I know 2 large home school families living in small inner city homes where one room of the already small house is set aside for Dad. This may sound "selfish" of him, however the wives are very keen to facilitate "Dad's room" as it releases a lot of the pressure on the Mum and family to keep the whole house in order. Dad has a haven to go to when he comes home, somewhere to eat in peace if that's what he needs, somewhere to bring guests that isn't choc full of the children's messes, somewhere where his stuff won't get messed up or broken.
Both Mums say they love the Dad having his own room (which by the way, are usually choc full of the Dad's own mess!!!) as the pressure to keep on top of the house is lifted.
_________________________________________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®.
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]