New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
griesellists
I have an eight year old son with ADHD (no, really, the real kind,
not just the too fidgety for school kind) and anger issues from
school (I just pulled him out in November.) I am finally seeing
progress in his overall attitude toward life, and I have found that
making an effort to treat him with respect helps a great deal.
However, I have a couple of dilemmas related to his difficulty with
transitioning from one activity to another.
He resists changing any activity...computer time to dinner, TV to
bed, getting in the bath, getting out of the bath...sometimes
frustrating even his own desires. He will ask me to remind him to do
something, like change clothes or write something or go to bed, then
when I do, he often blows up, no matter how nice I try to be about
it. Then if I fail to get him to do what he wanted to do in the
first place he'll get upset later because of missing out. He will
also refuse to do things he actually enjoys but are time dependent,
like going to his homeschool coop group, if he's interrupted in the
middle of something else. Then he's terribly disappointed when the
opportunity passes him by, if I don't make him go. I should mention
that lately, at least, these tantrums are quite short, an seem to
disappear abruptly after he's disengaged from the activity that was
holding his attention.
Anyone else have a child with this pattern of behavior? How do you
balance your child's long term (as in more than an hour from now)
desires and needs with the desires of the moment? Expecting him
to "learn to plan ahead" could take years of frustration, as he has
some issues with executive function and a very odd sense of the
passage of time. Like my husband, he doesn't seem to "feel" time.
My husband deals with it with compulsive clock watching...Andrew
seems to still be in denial that time's arrow actually applies to him.
Tamara
not just the too fidgety for school kind) and anger issues from
school (I just pulled him out in November.) I am finally seeing
progress in his overall attitude toward life, and I have found that
making an effort to treat him with respect helps a great deal.
However, I have a couple of dilemmas related to his difficulty with
transitioning from one activity to another.
He resists changing any activity...computer time to dinner, TV to
bed, getting in the bath, getting out of the bath...sometimes
frustrating even his own desires. He will ask me to remind him to do
something, like change clothes or write something or go to bed, then
when I do, he often blows up, no matter how nice I try to be about
it. Then if I fail to get him to do what he wanted to do in the
first place he'll get upset later because of missing out. He will
also refuse to do things he actually enjoys but are time dependent,
like going to his homeschool coop group, if he's interrupted in the
middle of something else. Then he's terribly disappointed when the
opportunity passes him by, if I don't make him go. I should mention
that lately, at least, these tantrums are quite short, an seem to
disappear abruptly after he's disengaged from the activity that was
holding his attention.
Anyone else have a child with this pattern of behavior? How do you
balance your child's long term (as in more than an hour from now)
desires and needs with the desires of the moment? Expecting him
to "learn to plan ahead" could take years of frustration, as he has
some issues with executive function and a very odd sense of the
passage of time. Like my husband, he doesn't seem to "feel" time.
My husband deals with it with compulsive clock watching...Andrew
seems to still be in denial that time's arrow actually applies to him.
Tamara
Kelly Lovejoy
I thought these were typical eight year old behaviors. Both my boys had issues with time and changing activities---especially between six and ten. Yours may be more intense, but I seriously thought that it was an age/developmentally appropriate behavior.
For us, it got better with time.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." ~Gandhi
-----Original Message-----
From: griesellists <griesellists@...>
He resists changing any activity...computer time to dinner, TV to
bed, getting in the bath, getting out of the bath...sometimes
frustrating even his own desires. He will ask me to remind him to do
something, like change clothes or write something or go to bed, then
when I do, he often blows up, no matter how nice I try to be about
it. Then if I fail to get him to do what he wanted to do in the
first place he'll get upset later because of missing out. He will
also refuse to do things he actually enjoys but are time dependent,
like going to his homeschool coop group, if he's interrupted in the
middle of something else. Then he's terribly disappointed when the
opportunity passes him by, if I don't make him go. I should mention
that lately, at least, these tantrums are quite short, an seem to
disappear abruptly after he's disengaged from the activity that was
holding his attention.
Anyone else have a child with this pattern of behavior? How do you
balance your child's20long term (as in more than an hour from now)
desires and needs with the desires of the moment? Expecting him
to "learn to plan ahead" could take years of frustration, as he has
some issues with executive function and a very odd sense of the
passage of time. Like my husband, he doesn't seem to "feel" time.
My husband deals with it with compulsive clock watching...Andrew
seems to still be in denial that time's arrow actually applies to him.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For us, it got better with time.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." ~Gandhi
-----Original Message-----
From: griesellists <griesellists@...>
He resists changing any activity...computer time to dinner, TV to
bed, getting in the bath, getting out of the bath...sometimes
frustrating even his own desires. He will ask me to remind him to do
something, like change clothes or write something or go to bed, then
when I do, he often blows up, no matter how nice I try to be about
it. Then if I fail to get him to do what he wanted to do in the
first place he'll get upset later because of missing out. He will
also refuse to do things he actually enjoys but are time dependent,
like going to his homeschool coop group, if he's interrupted in the
middle of something else. Then he's terribly disappointed when the
opportunity passes him by, if I don't make him go. I should mention
that lately, at least, these tantrums are quite short, an seem to
disappear abruptly after he's disengaged from the activity that was
holding his attention.
Anyone else have a child with this pattern of behavior? How do you
balance your child's20long term (as in more than an hour from now)
desires and needs with the desires of the moment? Expecting him
to "learn to plan ahead" could take years of frustration, as he has
some issues with executive function and a very odd sense of the
passage of time. Like my husband, he doesn't seem to "feel" time.
My husband deals with it with compulsive clock watching...Andrew
seems to still be in denial that time's arrow actually applies to him.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Verna
Could you perhaps help him make a schedule of the day and use timers or
something to remind him to check it.
something to remind him to check it.
Kelli Traaseth
***Anyone else have a child with this pattern of behavior?***
My son was 8 also when we decided that school was not a good fit for us. He was having a horrible time with all sorts of aspects in life, not only school but life with his family.
***He resists changing any activity...computer time to dinner, TV to
bed, getting in the bath, getting out of the bath...sometimes
frustrating even his own desires. ****
Have you considered letting him have some control over those things? Or changing the way things are done? Can he sometimes eat where he's playing? I know computers are touchy to food and drinks but can you set up a tray or table near where he's working so he can have some food near him while he's on the computer? Or maybe let him decide when he's tired? Even just easing up a bit on bedtimes. I know it was a huge shift for me to realize that my children could tell when they were tired. :) I'm not saying they always listened to their bodies, heck I don't always, but they've learned with time what is good for them.
I know our lives have been amazingly wonderful since I've given up controlling Alec's (my son) time. I will still help him keep appointments to time related events, if he wants me to, but he pretty much now gets to everything in time or before the time he needs to be there.
He's 15 now and he will get off the computer when we have a meal, he showers every day and he'll even go to bed earlier or get up earlier for things, even though he's very much a night owl.
With us learning to be more respectful to his needs, it's in turn allowed him to be more respectful to us.
Kelli~
http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/%c2%a0
"There are no ordinary moments." Dan Millman, Peaceful Warrior
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My son was 8 also when we decided that school was not a good fit for us. He was having a horrible time with all sorts of aspects in life, not only school but life with his family.
***He resists changing any activity...computer time to dinner, TV to
bed, getting in the bath, getting out of the bath...sometimes
frustrating even his own desires. ****
Have you considered letting him have some control over those things? Or changing the way things are done? Can he sometimes eat where he's playing? I know computers are touchy to food and drinks but can you set up a tray or table near where he's working so he can have some food near him while he's on the computer? Or maybe let him decide when he's tired? Even just easing up a bit on bedtimes. I know it was a huge shift for me to realize that my children could tell when they were tired. :) I'm not saying they always listened to their bodies, heck I don't always, but they've learned with time what is good for them.
I know our lives have been amazingly wonderful since I've given up controlling Alec's (my son) time. I will still help him keep appointments to time related events, if he wants me to, but he pretty much now gets to everything in time or before the time he needs to be there.
He's 15 now and he will get off the computer when we have a meal, he showers every day and he'll even go to bed earlier or get up earlier for things, even though he's very much a night owl.
With us learning to be more respectful to his needs, it's in turn allowed him to be more respectful to us.
Kelli~
http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/%c2%a0
"There are no ordinary moments." Dan Millman, Peaceful Warrior
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betj
Sometimes when a child has ADHD too many choices cause them to have a meltdown. With my son I hung outfits so he just had to grab a hanger, gave warnings (still do and he's 13) like 15 minutes until we have to leave, etc., and cut choices to things like we are having pork chops but do you want corn or greenbeans, tell him as far in advance as possible when things will happen (like dinner with friends). Doctor recommended video games when he is upset as he zones out and can get it together that way. We have taken a Gameboy to restuarants for the past 8-9 years! Some people think it's rude but he's happy and we can eat with friends and family.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 07:06:57
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
***Anyone else have a child with this pattern of behavior?***
My son was 8 also when we decided that school was not a good fit for us.� He was having a horrible time with all sorts of aspects in life, not only school but life with his family.
***He resists changing any activity...computer time to dinner, TV to
bed, getting in the bath, getting out of the bath...sometimes
frustrating even his own desires. ****
Have you considered letting him have some control over those things?� Or changing the way things are done?� Can he sometimes eat where he's playing?� I know computers are touchy to food and drinks but can you set up a tray or table near where he's working so he can have some food near him while he's on the computer?� Or maybe let him decide when he's tired?� Even just easing up a bit on bedtimes. I know it was a huge shift for me to realize that my children could tell when they were tired. :)� I'm not saying they always listened to their bodies, heck I don't always, but they've learned with time what is good for them.
I know our lives have been amazingly wonderful since I've given up controlling Alec's (my son) time.� I will still help him keep appointments to time related events, if he wants me to, but he pretty much now gets to everything in time or before the time he needs to be there.
He's 15 now and he will get off the computer when we have a meal, he showers every day and he'll even go to bed earlier or get up earlier for things,� even though he's very much a night owl.
With us learning to be more respectful to his needs, it's in turn allowed him to be more respectful to us.
Kelli~
� http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/%ef%bf%bd
"There are no ordinary moments."� Dan Millman,� Peaceful Warrior
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 07:06:57
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
***Anyone else have a child with this pattern of behavior?***
My son was 8 also when we decided that school was not a good fit for us.� He was having a horrible time with all sorts of aspects in life, not only school but life with his family.
***He resists changing any activity...computer time to dinner, TV to
bed, getting in the bath, getting out of the bath...sometimes
frustrating even his own desires. ****
Have you considered letting him have some control over those things?� Or changing the way things are done?� Can he sometimes eat where he's playing?� I know computers are touchy to food and drinks but can you set up a tray or table near where he's working so he can have some food near him while he's on the computer?� Or maybe let him decide when he's tired?� Even just easing up a bit on bedtimes. I know it was a huge shift for me to realize that my children could tell when they were tired. :)� I'm not saying they always listened to their bodies, heck I don't always, but they've learned with time what is good for them.
I know our lives have been amazingly wonderful since I've given up controlling Alec's (my son) time.� I will still help him keep appointments to time related events, if he wants me to, but he pretty much now gets to everything in time or before the time he needs to be there.
He's 15 now and he will get off the computer when we have a meal, he showers every day and he'll even go to bed earlier or get up earlier for things,� even though he's very much a night owl.
With us learning to be more respectful to his needs, it's in turn allowed him to be more respectful to us.
Kelli~
� http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/%ef%bf%bd
"There are no ordinary moments."� Dan Millman,� Peaceful Warrior
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "griesellists"
<griesellists@...> wrote:
well still be reacting to having had a school schedule, even - he's
built up an emotional response to constantly having to change about
that's effecting the way he transitions overall. I'd look for ways to
help him feel like he has more Time for everything - as much as
possible look for ways to give him all the time he could possibly
want at anything he does, rather than breaking up his days.
Bring him food where he is, rather than asking him to stop for a
meal - bring snacks all along, even, rather than lumping food
into "meals".
Don't set a limit on "computer time" - if other family members need
to use the computer, for now, work around his natural desires. Wait
to negotiate until he's had a bit more time to deschool and relax.
Does he need baths? Is he muddy? Offer little "cat baths" at the
computer or while he's doing something else - wash his feet and neck
for him, if he likes that, or just bring him a washcloth and a basin.
Maybe get a cover for the keyboard ;)
I'm sometimes testy to be interrupted in the middle of something - I
get allllll wrapped up in things and just don't want to stop, no
matter how much I want to do something at a specific time. So I
really sympathize with your guy! Acknowledge his frustration and
appologise for interrupting him. As much as possible, let him know
you understand that its hard to Want to do two totally different
things at exactly the same time. Its frustrating! Some days I wish I
had six arms and two heads so I could type, sew and knit all at the
same time.
More importantly, try to get away from seeing this sort of behavior
as some sort of defect in your son. He gets immersed in things -
that's Wonderful! He has Lots of ideas and plans and wants and
wishes - that's Marvelous! Touch base with his enthusiasm and passion
and you'll be better able to empathize when he can't do it all at
once.
nice enough. Be nice to be nice. Be appologetic as an act of kindness
on your part. Don't get mad back at him, just acknowledge his
frustration. Outside of those moments, look for ways to talk about
how You handle frustrations of your own.
require scheduling. He needs time to Be - time to really dive deep
into whatever he's doing without worrying about how it will impact
anything else. That sounds counter-intuitive, but think of it as
though he needs to know what "full" feels like - he needs to be
better aquainted by the Internal motivation to move on. That will
help him feel more in control, rather than being bullied by time
itself.
When you do have plans, try some different strategies - talk to him
about this! Does it help him more to have some warning so he
can "change gears"? or is that even more frustrating? Does it help to
have some built in time Between activities so that he can "change
gears" then, iykwim. Maybe transition *with* something - a snack,
music, a potty break, running around the house....
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<griesellists@...> wrote:
>> He resists changing any activity...computer time to dinner, TV toSome people have a harder time with transitions than others. He may
> bed, getting in the bath, getting out of the bath...sometimes
> frustrating even his own desires.
well still be reacting to having had a school schedule, even - he's
built up an emotional response to constantly having to change about
that's effecting the way he transitions overall. I'd look for ways to
help him feel like he has more Time for everything - as much as
possible look for ways to give him all the time he could possibly
want at anything he does, rather than breaking up his days.
Bring him food where he is, rather than asking him to stop for a
meal - bring snacks all along, even, rather than lumping food
into "meals".
Don't set a limit on "computer time" - if other family members need
to use the computer, for now, work around his natural desires. Wait
to negotiate until he's had a bit more time to deschool and relax.
Does he need baths? Is he muddy? Offer little "cat baths" at the
computer or while he's doing something else - wash his feet and neck
for him, if he likes that, or just bring him a washcloth and a basin.
Maybe get a cover for the keyboard ;)
>He will ask me to remind him to dothen
> something, like change clothes or write something or go to bed,
> when I do, he often blows up, no matter how nice I try to be aboutDo you appologise for interrupting him? Even if I want a reminder,
> it.
I'm sometimes testy to be interrupted in the middle of something - I
get allllll wrapped up in things and just don't want to stop, no
matter how much I want to do something at a specific time. So I
really sympathize with your guy! Acknowledge his frustration and
appologise for interrupting him. As much as possible, let him know
you understand that its hard to Want to do two totally different
things at exactly the same time. Its frustrating! Some days I wish I
had six arms and two heads so I could type, sew and knit all at the
same time.
More importantly, try to get away from seeing this sort of behavior
as some sort of defect in your son. He gets immersed in things -
that's Wonderful! He has Lots of ideas and plans and wants and
wishes - that's Marvelous! Touch base with his enthusiasm and passion
and you'll be better able to empathize when he can't do it all at
once.
> he often blows up, no matter how nice I try to be aboutMove away from an expectation that he Won't blow up, if only you're
> it.
nice enough. Be nice to be nice. Be appologetic as an act of kindness
on your part. Don't get mad back at him, just acknowledge his
frustration. Outside of those moments, look for ways to talk about
how You handle frustrations of your own.
> Expecting himAs much as possible, pare down activities outside the home that
> to "learn to plan ahead" could take years of frustration, as he has
> some issues with executive function and a very odd sense of the
> passage of time.
require scheduling. He needs time to Be - time to really dive deep
into whatever he's doing without worrying about how it will impact
anything else. That sounds counter-intuitive, but think of it as
though he needs to know what "full" feels like - he needs to be
better aquainted by the Internal motivation to move on. That will
help him feel more in control, rather than being bullied by time
itself.
When you do have plans, try some different strategies - talk to him
about this! Does it help him more to have some warning so he
can "change gears"? or is that even more frustrating? Does it help to
have some built in time Between activities so that he can "change
gears" then, iykwim. Maybe transition *with* something - a snack,
music, a potty break, running around the house....
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Betj" <bkind28@...> wrote:
a more introverted child to "ease in" to interacting in a busy space
(which isn't the topic, but its how my 7yo likes to use games and
portable movies).
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
>We have taken a Gameboy to restuarants for the past 8-9 years!That's a great way to smooth out a transition! Its also a good way for
a more introverted child to "ease in" to interacting in a busy space
(which isn't the topic, but its how my 7yo likes to use games and
portable movies).
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Faith Void
we have used DS lites both ways, for different children. They really
are amazing little portable devices. I think it is important to
respect your childs needs as long as they aren't hurting anyone like
playing it loudly or something.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
are amazing little portable devices. I think it is important to
respect your childs needs as long as they aren't hurting anyone like
playing it loudly or something.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 22, 2009, at 3:33 PM, "Meredith" <meredith@...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "Betj" <bkind28@...> wrote:
> >We have taken a Gameboy to restuarants for the past 8-9 years!
>
> That's a great way to smooth out a transition! Its also a good way for
> a more introverted child to "ease in" to interacting in a busy space
> (which isn't the topic, but its how my 7yo likes to use games and
> portable movies).
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
>
> __
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tamara Griesel
Thanks,
I think at some level it is developmentally appropriate (though the school was completely unable to manage it at all) but the level of intensity can be dangerous/destructive. He has thrown his laptop across the room when told that he needed to put it away for the night (DH caught it) and said truly hateful things that he later regrets immensely.
I'm glad to hear it may be a stage I can expect to fade eventually, rather than a permanent personality trait that is bound to drive any future mate nuts. I still have to figure out how to help him learn to find that balance.
Tamara
I think at some level it is developmentally appropriate (though the school was completely unable to manage it at all) but the level of intensity can be dangerous/destructive. He has thrown his laptop across the room when told that he needed to put it away for the night (DH caught it) and said truly hateful things that he later regrets immensely.
I'm glad to hear it may be a stage I can expect to fade eventually, rather than a permanent personality trait that is bound to drive any future mate nuts. I still have to figure out how to help him learn to find that balance.
Tamara
--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
From: Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 8:52 AM
I thought these were typical eight year old behaviors. Both my boys had issues with time and changing activities-- -especially between six and ten. Yours may be more intense, but I seriously thought that it was an age/developmentally appropriate behavior.
For us, it got better with time.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." ~Gandhi
-----Original Message-----
From: griesellists <griesellists@ yahoo.com>
He resists changing any activity...computer time to dinner, TV to
bed, getting in the bath, getting out of the bath...sometimes
frustrating even his own desires. He will ask me to remind him to do
something, like change clothes or write something or go to bed, then
when I do, he often blows up, no matter how nice I try to be about
it. Then if I fail to get him to do what he wanted to do in the
first place he'll get upset later because of missing out. He will
also refuse to do things he actually enjoys but are time dependent,
like going to his homeschool coop group, if he's interrupted in the
middle of something else. Then he's terribly disappointed when the
opportunity passes him by, if I don't make him go. I should mention
that lately, at least, these tantrums are quite short, an seem to
disappear abruptly after he's disengaged from the activity that was
holding his attention.
Anyone else have a child with this pattern of behavior? How do you
balance your child's20long term (as in more than an hour from now)
desires and needs with the desires of the moment? Expecting him
to "learn to plan ahead" could take years of frustration, as he has
some issues with executive function and a very odd sense of the
passage of time. Like my husband, he doesn't seem to "feel" time.
My husband deals with it with compulsive clock watching...Andrew
seems to still be in denial that time's arrow actually applies to him.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tamara Griesel
We're working on having a daily/weekly schedule. One thing he asked for and I try to accomodate is one "no nag day" per week, in which he can do whatever he wants (within reason). He has to brush his teeth and be reasonably civil to his sister, but I don't interrupt him or plan errands that day. If he wants, he can sit and play Roblox or Zoo Tycoon all day long on that day. I plan to bake or do projects at home (I try not to take break days myself, it makes me feel guilty when I let things go, since DH works such long hours.)
He is afraid of timers and of being timed. He would disagree with that way of putting it. It's more that knowing he has a timer or a time limit makes him anxious and agitated. Which is odd to me, since for me timers are a motivating tool (let's see if I can finish the dishes in 5 minutes).
Tamara
He is afraid of timers and of being timed. He would disagree with that way of putting it. It's more that knowing he has a timer or a time limit makes him anxious and agitated. Which is odd to me, since for me timers are a motivating tool (let's see if I can finish the dishes in 5 minutes).
Tamara
--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Verna <lalow@...> wrote:
From: Verna <lalow@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 8:59 AM
Could you perhaps help him make a schedule of the day and use timers or
something to remind him to check it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tamara Griesel
"Have you considered letting him have some control over those things? Or changing the way things are done? Can he sometimes eat where he's playing? I know computers are touchy to food and drinks but can you set up a tray or table near where he's working so he can have some food near him while he's on the computer? Or maybe let him decide when he's tired? Even just easing up a bit on bedtimes. I know it was a huge shift for me to realize that my children could tell when they were tired. :) I'm not saying they always listened to their bodies, heck I don't always, but they've learned with time what is good for them."
Actually, we do. It's on those occasions when we can't, or when he wants to do something himself but then isn't willing to shift at the time. He usually eats where he's playing...we have a big old army desk where our computer sits with one of those pullout shelves where he eats. He does better if we get him moving toward bedbefore he gets overtired...once he passes a certain point he can no longer calm himself and becomes very easily frustrated...he can't seem to identify that point yet himself, but it seems to hit about 10 at night. He sleeps better when he's read to for about half an hour to an hour, and now that our reading interests are beginning to overlap, that is actually a pleasure. DH has to start reading by 10:30 or so though, because he gets up for work at 6 and is too tired to focus on print late at night. There have been nights when I've heard Andrew call from the bedroom "Can you wake Dad and take him to bed? It's your turn to
read."
There are just a few things that we sometimes have to do at a specific time. Like doctor's appointments, ice skating (which he really likes, he just hates getting up, putting on shoes, and getting in the car), sometimes other appointments I can't avoid, and his homeschool group (Also something he really enjoys, once he's there, because he has a chance to hang out with other kids who "get" him.) And I do want him to bathe once a week (OK, I'd prefer every other day, but I'm willing to compromise there.) I also don't think it's fair to plan an activity that he and his younger sister both get excited about, then disappoint his younger sister because he doesn't feel like putting away his game and getting in the car.
I feel better just knowing that other little boys have the same issues.
Tamara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Actually, we do. It's on those occasions when we can't, or when he wants to do something himself but then isn't willing to shift at the time. He usually eats where he's playing...we have a big old army desk where our computer sits with one of those pullout shelves where he eats. He does better if we get him moving toward bedbefore he gets overtired...once he passes a certain point he can no longer calm himself and becomes very easily frustrated...he can't seem to identify that point yet himself, but it seems to hit about 10 at night. He sleeps better when he's read to for about half an hour to an hour, and now that our reading interests are beginning to overlap, that is actually a pleasure. DH has to start reading by 10:30 or so though, because he gets up for work at 6 and is too tired to focus on print late at night. There have been nights when I've heard Andrew call from the bedroom "Can you wake Dad and take him to bed? It's your turn to
read."
There are just a few things that we sometimes have to do at a specific time. Like doctor's appointments, ice skating (which he really likes, he just hates getting up, putting on shoes, and getting in the car), sometimes other appointments I can't avoid, and his homeschool group (Also something he really enjoys, once he's there, because he has a chance to hang out with other kids who "get" him.) And I do want him to bathe once a week (OK, I'd prefer every other day, but I'm willing to compromise there.) I also don't think it's fair to plan an activity that he and his younger sister both get excited about, then disappoint his younger sister because he doesn't feel like putting away his game and getting in the car.
I feel better just knowing that other little boys have the same issues.
Tamara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tamara Griesel
A DS is on the list...we're saving up. Money is a major issue for us, unfortunately.
Tamara
Tamara
--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 4:45 PM
we have used DS lites both ways, for different children. They really
are amazing little portable devices. I think it is important to
respect your childs needs as long as they aren't hurting anyone like
playing it loudly or something.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 22, 2009, at 3:33 PM, "Meredith" <meredith@quilted. net> wrote:
> --- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "Betj" <bkind28@... > wrote:
> >We have taken a Gameboy to restuarants for the past 8-9 years!
>
> That's a great way to smooth out a transition! Its also a good way for
> a more introverted child to "ease in" to interacting in a busy space
> (which isn't the topic, but its how my 7yo likes to use games and
> portable movies).
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
>
> __
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betj
My son would get hysterical over showers at time when he was young BUT the good news is at 13 he now cares how his hair looks and won't go out to a store or school without a shower. :) He went a week at camp without ever opening his soap or shampoo when he was 10 though! I'm OCD about it and it made me nuts.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Tamara Griesel <griesellists@...>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:00:49
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
"Have you considered letting him have some control over those things?� Or changing the way things are done?� Can he sometimes eat where he's playing?� I know computers are touchy to food and drinks but can you set up a tray or table near where he's working so he can have some food near him while he's on the computer?� Or maybe let him decide when he's tired?� Even just easing up a bit on bedtimes. I know it was a huge shift for me to realize that my children could tell when they were tired. :)� I'm not saying they always listened to their bodies, heck I don't always, but they've learned with time what is good for them."
�
Actually, we do.� It's on those occasions when we can't, or when he wants to do something himself but then isn't willing to shift at the time.� He usually eats where he's playing...we have a big old army desk where our computer sits with one of those pullout shelves where he eats.� He does better if we get him moving toward bedbefore he gets overtired...once he passes a certain point he can no longer calm himself and becomes very easily frustrated...he can't seem to identify that point yet himself, but it seems to hit about 10 at night.� He sleeps better when he's read to for about half an hour to an hour, and now that our reading interests are beginning to overlap, that is actually a pleasure.� DH has to start reading by 10:30 or so though, because he gets up for work at 6 and is too tired to focus on print late at night.� There have been nights when I've heard Andrew call from the bedroom "Can you wake Dad and take him to bed?� It's your turn to
read."
�
There are just a few things that we sometimes have to do at a specific time.� Like doctor's appointments, ice skating (which he really likes, he just hates getting up, putting on shoes, and getting in the car), sometimes other appointments I can't avoid, and his homeschool group (Also something he really enjoys, once he's there, because he has a chance to hang out with other kids who "get" him.) �And I do want him to bathe once a week (OK, I'd prefer every other day, but I'm willing to compromise there.)� I also don't think it's fair to plan an activity that he and his younger sister both get excited about, then disappoint his younger sister because he doesn't feel like putting away his game�and getting in the car.
�
I feel better just knowing that other little boys have the same issues.
�
Tamara
�
�
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Tamara Griesel <griesellists@...>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:00:49
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
"Have you considered letting him have some control over those things?� Or changing the way things are done?� Can he sometimes eat where he's playing?� I know computers are touchy to food and drinks but can you set up a tray or table near where he's working so he can have some food near him while he's on the computer?� Or maybe let him decide when he's tired?� Even just easing up a bit on bedtimes. I know it was a huge shift for me to realize that my children could tell when they were tired. :)� I'm not saying they always listened to their bodies, heck I don't always, but they've learned with time what is good for them."
�
Actually, we do.� It's on those occasions when we can't, or when he wants to do something himself but then isn't willing to shift at the time.� He usually eats where he's playing...we have a big old army desk where our computer sits with one of those pullout shelves where he eats.� He does better if we get him moving toward bedbefore he gets overtired...once he passes a certain point he can no longer calm himself and becomes very easily frustrated...he can't seem to identify that point yet himself, but it seems to hit about 10 at night.� He sleeps better when he's read to for about half an hour to an hour, and now that our reading interests are beginning to overlap, that is actually a pleasure.� DH has to start reading by 10:30 or so though, because he gets up for work at 6 and is too tired to focus on print late at night.� There have been nights when I've heard Andrew call from the bedroom "Can you wake Dad and take him to bed?� It's your turn to
read."
�
There are just a few things that we sometimes have to do at a specific time.� Like doctor's appointments, ice skating (which he really likes, he just hates getting up, putting on shoes, and getting in the car), sometimes other appointments I can't avoid, and his homeschool group (Also something he really enjoys, once he's there, because he has a chance to hang out with other kids who "get" him.) �And I do want him to bathe once a week (OK, I'd prefer every other day, but I'm willing to compromise there.)� I also don't think it's fair to plan an activity that he and his younger sister both get excited about, then disappoint his younger sister because he doesn't feel like putting away his game�and getting in the car.
�
I feel better just knowing that other little boys have the same issues.
�
Tamara
�
�
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betj
Hey if you email me off list at bkind28@... I can help out with that. We have a DS and 2 Gameboy Advance SPs. I would be glad to send you a SP. I'm trying to clean out!
Beth
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Tamara Griesel <griesellists@...>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:11:30
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
A DS is on the list...we're saving up.� Money is a major issue for us, unfortunately.
�
Tamara
Beth
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Tamara Griesel <griesellists@...>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:11:30
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
A DS is on the list...we're saving up.� Money is a major issue for us, unfortunately.
�
Tamara
--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 4:45 PM
we have used DS lites both ways, for different children. They really
are amazing little portable devices. I think it is important to
respect your childs needs as long as they aren't hurting anyone like
playing it loudly or something.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 22, 2009, at 3:33 PM, "Meredith" <meredith@quilted. net> wrote:
> --- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "Betj" <bkind28@... > wrote:
> >We have taken a Gameboy to restuarants for the past 8-9 years!
>
> That's a great way to smooth out a transition! Its also a good way for
> a more introverted child to "ease in" to interacting in a busy space
> (which isn't the topic, but its how my 7yo likes to use games and
> portable movies).
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
>
>__
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 2/21/2009 10:22 PM, griesellists wrote:
very successful at it, but it most definitely takes more conscious
attention on her part than the rest of our family. She's a college
graduate with a very rewarding and satisfying job and a great life.
I wish there was something I could say to convince you to drop the ADHD
label. "Real" or not - it doesn't really matter at all now that you're
unschooling. Thinking about it at all will only hold you back and only
hurt him. He is who he is - he has a personality and he has some habits
and he has natural abilities.
My sense of your post is that you probably ought to give him way way way
more control over his own time. Don't be telling him it is time for
dinner or time for bed or time for pretty much anything else that isn't
truly absolutely necessary.
You both need to deschool - for quite a long time. Give yourselves at
least a year for that process.
This is the most important thing I have to say and I really truly hope
you'll take it to heart:
FOCUS ON HIS STRENGTHS and ignore the weaknesses. I'm serious. Let them
just GO out your head. Be brave. Don't even worry about "problem areas."
Focus entirely on what he loves, what he is good at, what you enjoy
together. Have fun. Don't try to fix him. Enjoy him as he is. Work
around any inconveniences that come from his personality
characteristics. Work around them. Set up an environment in which they
really don't matter much. Don't schedule things. Don't make dinner a
certain time - make foods that he can graze on when hungry and take them
on a plate to where he is so he can snack on them. And so on.
Accommodate the real him.
-pam
> Anyone else have a child with this pattern of behavior? How do youI did. My oldest. She's 24 now and has to work to plan her time. She's
> balance your child's long term (as in more than an hour from now)
> desires and needs with the desires of the moment? Expecting him
> to "learn to plan ahead" could take years of frustration, as he has
> some issues with executive function and a very odd sense of the
> passage of time. Like my husband, he doesn't seem to "feel" time.
> My husband deals with it with compulsive clock watching...Andrew
> seems to still be in denial that time's arrow actually applies to him.
>
>
very successful at it, but it most definitely takes more conscious
attention on her part than the rest of our family. She's a college
graduate with a very rewarding and satisfying job and a great life.
I wish there was something I could say to convince you to drop the ADHD
label. "Real" or not - it doesn't really matter at all now that you're
unschooling. Thinking about it at all will only hold you back and only
hurt him. He is who he is - he has a personality and he has some habits
and he has natural abilities.
My sense of your post is that you probably ought to give him way way way
more control over his own time. Don't be telling him it is time for
dinner or time for bed or time for pretty much anything else that isn't
truly absolutely necessary.
You both need to deschool - for quite a long time. Give yourselves at
least a year for that process.
This is the most important thing I have to say and I really truly hope
you'll take it to heart:
FOCUS ON HIS STRENGTHS and ignore the weaknesses. I'm serious. Let them
just GO out your head. Be brave. Don't even worry about "problem areas."
Focus entirely on what he loves, what he is good at, what you enjoy
together. Have fun. Don't try to fix him. Enjoy him as he is. Work
around any inconveniences that come from his personality
characteristics. Work around them. Set up an environment in which they
really don't matter much. Don't schedule things. Don't make dinner a
certain time - make foods that he can graze on when hungry and take them
on a plate to where he is so he can snack on them. And so on.
Accommodate the real him.
-pam
Verna
>us, unfortunately.
> A DS is on the list...we're saving up. Money is a major issue for
>we cant afford DS for everyone so we got the kids SP. They love them
and we got them on EBAy with games for what one DS would cost.
griesellists
I think I've had a lot of people tell me he's broken and I have to fix
him. So I think you are totally right about focusing on his
strengths.
Oddly enough, though, I actually have been giving him a lot more
control of his time---and he does get over the angry reaction much
faster than he did right after he came home. In general, he has to
brush his teeth twice a day, sometime, and he has to go along on
absolutely necessary trips like doctor appointments and kid transfers
(I have to meet my husband where I work twice a week to hand off the
children because otherwise our respective commutes would leave them
home alone for almost an hour, and they're still too little for that.)
I was more concerned that I wasn't doing enough to "get him to do
stuff" because I didn't want to deal with him getting mad, and I needed
someone to say no, you know, you don't have to make him do all that
stuff just because that's the way it's done.
I think I also have this unrealistic idea that if only I can find the
exact right way to behave around him he'll never get angry. Which is
silly. I should just be happy that he gets over it as quickly as he
does.
Thanks, guys. I'll keep you posted.
Tamara
him. So I think you are totally right about focusing on his
strengths.
Oddly enough, though, I actually have been giving him a lot more
control of his time---and he does get over the angry reaction much
faster than he did right after he came home. In general, he has to
brush his teeth twice a day, sometime, and he has to go along on
absolutely necessary trips like doctor appointments and kid transfers
(I have to meet my husband where I work twice a week to hand off the
children because otherwise our respective commutes would leave them
home alone for almost an hour, and they're still too little for that.)
I was more concerned that I wasn't doing enough to "get him to do
stuff" because I didn't want to deal with him getting mad, and I needed
someone to say no, you know, you don't have to make him do all that
stuff just because that's the way it's done.
I think I also have this unrealistic idea that if only I can find the
exact right way to behave around him he'll never get angry. Which is
silly. I should just be happy that he gets over it as quickly as he
does.
Thanks, guys. I'll keep you posted.
Tamara
Schuyler
Pam wrote really important things. I just sent an Abraham Lincoln quote that I got from the movie Pollyanna to another list I'm on: "When you look for the bad in Mankind you will surely find it." It works for your children too. If you look at your son as an ADHD child you will find lots of evidence for that. If you just look at him as your son who likes to play games like Roblox and Zoo Tycoon, than you get to see him as this more joyful, engaged person. A big part of unschooling is how you look at your children. And how you help them to further enjoy what they already enjoy doing.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
<snip>
I wish there was something I could say to convince you to drop the ADHD
label. "Real" or not - it doesn't really matter at all now that you're
unschooling. Thinking about it at all will only hold you back and only
hurt him. He is who he is - he has a personality and he has some habits
and he has natural abilities.
<snip>
FOCUS ON HIS STRENGTHS and ignore the weaknesses. I'm serious. Let them
just GO out your head. Be brave. Don't even worry about "problem areas."
Focus entirely on what he loves, what he is good at, what you enjoy
together. Have fun. Don't try to fix him. Enjoy him as he is. Work
around any inconveniences that come from his personality
characteristics. Work around them. Set up an environment in which they
really don't matter much. Don't schedule things. Don't make dinner a
certain time - make foods that he can graze on when hungry and take them
on a plate to where he is so he can snack on them. And so on.
Accommodate the real him.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
<snip>
I wish there was something I could say to convince you to drop the ADHD
label. "Real" or not - it doesn't really matter at all now that you're
unschooling. Thinking about it at all will only hold you back and only
hurt him. He is who he is - he has a personality and he has some habits
and he has natural abilities.
<snip>
FOCUS ON HIS STRENGTHS and ignore the weaknesses. I'm serious. Let them
just GO out your head. Be brave. Don't even worry about "problem areas."
Focus entirely on what he loves, what he is good at, what you enjoy
together. Have fun. Don't try to fix him. Enjoy him as he is. Work
around any inconveniences that come from his personality
characteristics. Work around them. Set up an environment in which they
really don't matter much. Don't schedule things. Don't make dinner a
certain time - make foods that he can graze on when hungry and take them
on a plate to where he is so he can snack on them. And so on.
Accommodate the real him.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
You wrote that he likes going skating, but hates the transition of
waking and getting ready to go. Can you make the car more cozy? Put a
blanket and pillows in there and let him wear slippers out and only get
his shoes on when you get to the rink? Simon and Linnaea do that. I
piggyback them out sometimes, and at 11 and 8 they are getting pretty
big, or they run barefoot across the ground to the car and hop in, and
get cozy. I also try and schedule nothing early in the day. Sometimes
there are things they want to do when they hear about it but they change their mind on the day. If our going is pivotal to the group happening, we still go, but if they aren't being dependent on then we don't go.
You've been doing this since November, have you really just relaxed and
not schedule anything for a couple of months? Can you do things without
planning? Offer the homeschooling coop as an option but not go if he
doesn't want to? Same with ice skating? Can you help him to stay home? Get someone to come over so that you and your daughter can go? Or find really cool things that you and your daughter can do at home?
I can get really frustrated having my plans changed at the last minute. It is a real trick for me to be comfortable with Simon, usually, wanting to stay home when I want to go and do the going out thing. I'm much better than I used to be, but sometimes all my momentum is focused on going out and I get thrown when the plan changes. Everytime I stay with home we have a good time. But I'm not always prepared to have my plans put off, even if the plans were made for him.
Schuyler
________________________________
There are just a few things that we sometimes have to do at a specific time. Like doctor's appointments, ice skating (which he really likes, he just hates getting up, putting on shoes, and getting in the car), sometimes other appointments I can't avoid, and his homeschool group (Also something he really enjoys, once he's there, because he has a chance to hang out with other kids who "get" him.) And I do want him to bathe once a week (OK, I'd prefer every other day, but I'm willing to compromise there.) I also don't think it's fair to plan an activity that he and his younger sister both get excited about, then disappoint his younger sister because he doesn't feel like putting away his game and getting in the car.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
waking and getting ready to go. Can you make the car more cozy? Put a
blanket and pillows in there and let him wear slippers out and only get
his shoes on when you get to the rink? Simon and Linnaea do that. I
piggyback them out sometimes, and at 11 and 8 they are getting pretty
big, or they run barefoot across the ground to the car and hop in, and
get cozy. I also try and schedule nothing early in the day. Sometimes
there are things they want to do when they hear about it but they change their mind on the day. If our going is pivotal to the group happening, we still go, but if they aren't being dependent on then we don't go.
You've been doing this since November, have you really just relaxed and
not schedule anything for a couple of months? Can you do things without
planning? Offer the homeschooling coop as an option but not go if he
doesn't want to? Same with ice skating? Can you help him to stay home? Get someone to come over so that you and your daughter can go? Or find really cool things that you and your daughter can do at home?
I can get really frustrated having my plans changed at the last minute. It is a real trick for me to be comfortable with Simon, usually, wanting to stay home when I want to go and do the going out thing. I'm much better than I used to be, but sometimes all my momentum is focused on going out and I get thrown when the plan changes. Everytime I stay with home we have a good time. But I'm not always prepared to have my plans put off, even if the plans were made for him.
Schuyler
________________________________
There are just a few things that we sometimes have to do at a specific time. Like doctor's appointments, ice skating (which he really likes, he just hates getting up, putting on shoes, and getting in the car), sometimes other appointments I can't avoid, and his homeschool group (Also something he really enjoys, once he's there, because he has a chance to hang out with other kids who "get" him.) And I do want him to bathe once a week (OK, I'd prefer every other day, but I'm willing to compromise there.) I also don't think it's fair to plan an activity that he and his younger sister both get excited about, then disappoint his younger sister because he doesn't feel like putting away his game and getting in the car.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
If you want to unschool well you need to have lots of "no nag" days, as many as possible, every day a "no nag day". Nagging is about getting someone do to something that you want them to do. Unschooling is about facilitating to your child's desires and interests. Nagging shouldn't come into it, reminding, helping, but not nagging. And think about how wonderful an absence of nagging would be for both of you. I hate nagging, I feel whiney and powerless when I nag. Think about how much more he would trust you to be on his side if he knows that you are making an effort to make his life as easy as possible for him to focus on what he wants to focus on.
If he doesn't like timers, how does he feel about schedules? Can you be more flexible than a schedule would imply? Potential things to do with as few mandatory things as possible. And if possible, have the mandatory things be as flexible as possible. So if you need to go grocery shopping (if you can't get things delivered), have it be within that day, or within the next couple of days and instead of stopping him within an activity, move to go when he's done. Simon and Linnaea are good at looking for stopping points within a game or within whatever it is they are doing. But that has come over time and with me being willing to let them decide when it is we need to go. I also will wait to run errands for a time when David is home, if they are things that Simon and Linnaea don't want to come along for.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Tamara Griesel <griesellists@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 22 February, 2009 10:42:39 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
We're working on having a daily/weekly schedule. One thing he asked for and I try to accomodate is one "no nag day" per week, in which he can do whatever he wants (within reason). He has to brush his teeth and be reasonably civil to his sister, but I don't interrupt him or plan errands that day. If he wants, he can sit and play Roblox or Zoo Tycoon all day long on that day. I plan to bake or do projects at home (I try not to take break days myself, it makes me feel guilty when I let things go, since DH works such long hours.)
He is afraid of timers and of being timed. He would disagree with that way of putting it. It's more that knowing he has a timer or a time limit makes him anxious and agitated. Which is odd to me, since for me timers are a motivating tool (let's see if I can finish the dishes in 5 minutes).
Tamara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If he doesn't like timers, how does he feel about schedules? Can you be more flexible than a schedule would imply? Potential things to do with as few mandatory things as possible. And if possible, have the mandatory things be as flexible as possible. So if you need to go grocery shopping (if you can't get things delivered), have it be within that day, or within the next couple of days and instead of stopping him within an activity, move to go when he's done. Simon and Linnaea are good at looking for stopping points within a game or within whatever it is they are doing. But that has come over time and with me being willing to let them decide when it is we need to go. I also will wait to run errands for a time when David is home, if they are things that Simon and Linnaea don't want to come along for.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Tamara Griesel <griesellists@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 22 February, 2009 10:42:39 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling, need ideas about bedtime and transitions
We're working on having a daily/weekly schedule. One thing he asked for and I try to accomodate is one "no nag day" per week, in which he can do whatever he wants (within reason). He has to brush his teeth and be reasonably civil to his sister, but I don't interrupt him or plan errands that day. If he wants, he can sit and play Roblox or Zoo Tycoon all day long on that day. I plan to bake or do projects at home (I try not to take break days myself, it makes me feel guilty when I let things go, since DH works such long hours.)
He is afraid of timers and of being timed. He would disagree with that way of putting it. It's more that knowing he has a timer or a time limit makes him anxious and agitated. Which is odd to me, since for me timers are a motivating tool (let's see if I can finish the dishes in 5 minutes).
Tamara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
raisingexplorers
I know you said you're saving up for a Nintendo DS.. but, there are
other options. I bought a Gameboy Advance for just $5 and it came with
several games, and other games are much cheaper than DS games. You can
find them at yard sales, thrift stores or old game trading stores. My
son enjoys it and it's much easier on our budget to get him new games
for that than the DS. My sons most intense disagreements come about
when we need to go somewhere and he's in the middle of a game. In that
situation, I try to catch him in a 'transitional' portion of the game,
like he just defeated a level, or something.. to ask him to pause it
and come back to it later. That has helped a lot.. it's much easier
for him to let go and come back later when the game itself had broken
'the zone' with transitioning levels and such.
My son has also thrown destructive tantrums. But, he also likes to
break things for fun. He's very rough and tumble. Instead of
combatting his urge to destroy something, I've given him acceptable
outlets that are more fun for him than breaking useful things..
Cardboard boxes drawn up like evil robots, the styrofoam inserts, thin
sheets of ice made in pie tins (thats a big hit), leftover wood from
projects, old junk objects. He wants to break something, not
necessarily something he likes or someone else likes. And since I've
encouraged him to break those things, he no longer goes after
something he might regret breaking.
other options. I bought a Gameboy Advance for just $5 and it came with
several games, and other games are much cheaper than DS games. You can
find them at yard sales, thrift stores or old game trading stores. My
son enjoys it and it's much easier on our budget to get him new games
for that than the DS. My sons most intense disagreements come about
when we need to go somewhere and he's in the middle of a game. In that
situation, I try to catch him in a 'transitional' portion of the game,
like he just defeated a level, or something.. to ask him to pause it
and come back to it later. That has helped a lot.. it's much easier
for him to let go and come back later when the game itself had broken
'the zone' with transitioning levels and such.
My son has also thrown destructive tantrums. But, he also likes to
break things for fun. He's very rough and tumble. Instead of
combatting his urge to destroy something, I've given him acceptable
outlets that are more fun for him than breaking useful things..
Cardboard boxes drawn up like evil robots, the styrofoam inserts, thin
sheets of ice made in pie tins (thats a big hit), leftover wood from
projects, old junk objects. He wants to break something, not
necessarily something he likes or someone else likes. And since I've
encouraged him to break those things, he no longer goes after
something he might regret breaking.
Debra Rossing
A tip I picked up from a wise woman on one of these groups years ago was
rather than moving him from A to B, get into A with him and then move
with him to B. So, for example, I might get right I with DS' playing
with little army figures on the floor. Then I'd ask if he wanted to see
if these two guys here who looked like frogmen (of course, that was
always a laugher - frog - men LOL) wanted to get in the tub with him.
And we'd transition gently over to the tub within the context of where
he was right then. He'd be bringing part of one thing along into the
next thing - kind of like using a starter for sourdough or 'friendship'
bread, you're bringing along some known goodness into the new thing or
situation. Or, something he still remembers as fun, I'd incorporate bits
of his play into changing clothes - if he was pretending to be a fish
and I was on the couch with a bit of string 'catching' him (he loved to
play this for whatever reason), I'd eventually "catch" him. Then I'd
"skin and gut" him (strip off his current outfit) and then roll him in
some bread crumbs (put on the fresh outfit) and cook him up (usually
tossing him around gently a bit then cuddling him with a blanket). Of
course, then I just "had to" eat him all up (play nibbles on fingers and
toes and belly type stuff). Obviously, that was more for a littler
person but the same type of process is useful with DS now at 10. We have
certain processes, procedures, general "routines" for the few time
related items we have in our weeks. Advance notice is really important -
"We'll be leaving at 8:30 so we've got 22 minutes" (precision is
important to him, not "about 20 or 25 minutes") until we get shoes on"
"Okay, 5 minutes until shoes" "Shoe time" and on we go. Timers were good
for him for a time when he was around 5 or 6 years old - we'd set a
timer until X, and he'd go check it for himself. That independence was
important - I wasn't telling him when to do something, the timer was and
he could check it whenever he wanted to. The amount of time would, as
much as possible, be set in consultation with DS "how long do you think
we should set the timer for before your bath?" Things like bath, bed,
meals don't have set time frames for us so that's not so big an issue -
we work with his timeframe (his plan for the next few hours - does he
want to watch a particular show? Play a particular game? Etc) Also,
looking forward with him rather than "leaving this game" but instead
"going to take a bath" was helpful sometimes - a big one for him back
when was instead of "leaving friends/playing" after church on Wednesday
nights, he was fine with leaving there if we were "going to go check out
the bug zappers" (one possible route home involved driving along/past an
old industrial canal by some factories still in use so they had big
industrial bug zappers - we'd roll down the windows and listen to the
zap tzit zap bzzz sounds). We also used natural breaks in his own
plans/play - commercials, changes of programs, and so on - "since you're
done with the Legos, how about a bath before you start something else,
that way you'll be all fresh for <playing whatever> and you can play
with <something> while you're in the tub" It's really helpful to remove
as many arbitrarily set times as possible so that those few time
constrained situations are less of a fuss.
Deb R
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rather than moving him from A to B, get into A with him and then move
with him to B. So, for example, I might get right I with DS' playing
with little army figures on the floor. Then I'd ask if he wanted to see
if these two guys here who looked like frogmen (of course, that was
always a laugher - frog - men LOL) wanted to get in the tub with him.
And we'd transition gently over to the tub within the context of where
he was right then. He'd be bringing part of one thing along into the
next thing - kind of like using a starter for sourdough or 'friendship'
bread, you're bringing along some known goodness into the new thing or
situation. Or, something he still remembers as fun, I'd incorporate bits
of his play into changing clothes - if he was pretending to be a fish
and I was on the couch with a bit of string 'catching' him (he loved to
play this for whatever reason), I'd eventually "catch" him. Then I'd
"skin and gut" him (strip off his current outfit) and then roll him in
some bread crumbs (put on the fresh outfit) and cook him up (usually
tossing him around gently a bit then cuddling him with a blanket). Of
course, then I just "had to" eat him all up (play nibbles on fingers and
toes and belly type stuff). Obviously, that was more for a littler
person but the same type of process is useful with DS now at 10. We have
certain processes, procedures, general "routines" for the few time
related items we have in our weeks. Advance notice is really important -
"We'll be leaving at 8:30 so we've got 22 minutes" (precision is
important to him, not "about 20 or 25 minutes") until we get shoes on"
"Okay, 5 minutes until shoes" "Shoe time" and on we go. Timers were good
for him for a time when he was around 5 or 6 years old - we'd set a
timer until X, and he'd go check it for himself. That independence was
important - I wasn't telling him when to do something, the timer was and
he could check it whenever he wanted to. The amount of time would, as
much as possible, be set in consultation with DS "how long do you think
we should set the timer for before your bath?" Things like bath, bed,
meals don't have set time frames for us so that's not so big an issue -
we work with his timeframe (his plan for the next few hours - does he
want to watch a particular show? Play a particular game? Etc) Also,
looking forward with him rather than "leaving this game" but instead
"going to take a bath" was helpful sometimes - a big one for him back
when was instead of "leaving friends/playing" after church on Wednesday
nights, he was fine with leaving there if we were "going to go check out
the bug zappers" (one possible route home involved driving along/past an
old industrial canal by some factories still in use so they had big
industrial bug zappers - we'd roll down the windows and listen to the
zap tzit zap bzzz sounds). We also used natural breaks in his own
plans/play - commercials, changes of programs, and so on - "since you're
done with the Legos, how about a bath before you start something else,
that way you'll be all fresh for <playing whatever> and you can play
with <something> while you're in the tub" It's really helpful to remove
as many arbitrarily set times as possible so that those few time
constrained situations are less of a fuss.
Deb R
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intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tamara Griesel
Oooh, ice in pie tins. That sounds like fun. Can I make extra for me?
Today we went to homeschool group. Last night I let him stay up as late as he wanted (I went to bed before he did, so I don't actually know when he finally keeled over. He was snuggled into bed with the laptop and water and blankets.) He woke up around eleven thirty, but he did want to go to "class" to meet his friends.
The coop activities vary in their appropriateness for his personality, and I'm learning to go when the mood and activity are right, and not when they aren't. Today the kids learned how to make balloon animals. It was a big hit...the bigger kids made elaborate structures and the little ones ran around whacking each other with balloons. Andrew did great left to his own devices and allowed to ask questions of anyone who had figured out a bit more than he had already, rather than being required to sit and listen. He and some other boys also experimented with using the pump to blow up balloons until they exploded, while some of the more fastidious kids kept the area clear of balloon debris. Fortunately, my three year old is the youngest in the group, and she doesn't tend to put stuff in her mouth, so we didn't have to worry too much about the choking issue as long as we kept the balloons picked up.
They
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Today we went to homeschool group. Last night I let him stay up as late as he wanted (I went to bed before he did, so I don't actually know when he finally keeled over. He was snuggled into bed with the laptop and water and blankets.) He woke up around eleven thirty, but he did want to go to "class" to meet his friends.
The coop activities vary in their appropriateness for his personality, and I'm learning to go when the mood and activity are right, and not when they aren't. Today the kids learned how to make balloon animals. It was a big hit...the bigger kids made elaborate structures and the little ones ran around whacking each other with balloons. Andrew did great left to his own devices and allowed to ask questions of anyone who had figured out a bit more than he had already, rather than being required to sit and listen. He and some other boys also experimented with using the pump to blow up balloons until they exploded, while some of the more fastidious kids kept the area clear of balloon debris. Fortunately, my three year old is the youngest in the group, and she doesn't tend to put stuff in her mouth, so we didn't have to worry too much about the choking issue as long as we kept the balloons picked up.
They
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
griesellists
Whoops, I accidentally sent an unfinished email. Anyway, they had fun
and now Andrew is back to filling his zoo with dinosaurs and mammoths.
Time for me to get dinner set up (nachos, a kid favorite) before I go
try to undo the damage done to my student by the school system before
she goes to take the GRE.
Hey , anyone else notice how many adult women (I'm sure some men too,
but it seems especially prevalent among my female students) have been
taught to hate and fear math in school? It's this weird combination of
lack of confidence combined with perfectionism that cripples many of my
students when they get in front of a standardized test.
(I don't endorse standardized tests, I just help people get through
them.)
Tamara
and now Andrew is back to filling his zoo with dinosaurs and mammoths.
Time for me to get dinner set up (nachos, a kid favorite) before I go
try to undo the damage done to my student by the school system before
she goes to take the GRE.
Hey , anyone else notice how many adult women (I'm sure some men too,
but it seems especially prevalent among my female students) have been
taught to hate and fear math in school? It's this weird combination of
lack of confidence combined with perfectionism that cripples many of my
students when they get in front of a standardized test.
(I don't endorse standardized tests, I just help people get through
them.)
Tamara
Verna
I have a 6 year old that has a difficult time with transitions as
well. I think some kids have a more difficult time than others. One
thing I have found with him is that if I can keep my stress, attitude
at a good level, he will often come back down to join me. But, if I
find myself getting upset or annoyed then all H-- breaks loose.
I try to anticipate problem times and leave plenty of time to get out
of the house. Using fun activities as incentives helps us too.
My son does not like to feel rushed or controled. I dont guess anyone
does really.
well. I think some kids have a more difficult time than others. One
thing I have found with him is that if I can keep my stress, attitude
at a good level, he will often come back down to join me. But, if I
find myself getting upset or annoyed then all H-- breaks loose.
I try to anticipate problem times and leave plenty of time to get out
of the house. Using fun activities as incentives helps us too.
My son does not like to feel rushed or controled. I dont guess anyone
does really.
cindybablitz
>> He resists changing any activity...computer time to dinner, TV toThis is one of the reasons I invest the time at places like this:
>> bed, getting in the bath, getting out of the bath...sometimes
>> frustrating even his own desires.
> I thought these were typical eight year old behaviors. Both my boys
> had issues with time and changing activities---especially between
> six and ten. Yours may be more intense, but I seriously thought
> that it was an age/developmentally appropriate behavior.
even just a few years down the road makes a more seasoned 'veteran'
of ap/unschooling than I am. And hearing these kinds of, 'oh, yeah,
no, really, "that" was so normal around here ... ' from parents whose
children are even just a couple or few years older than mine has
shifted my perspective to a more empowered one more times than I can
count.
So, thanks Kelly ... and other seasoned mamas here.
loving,
Cindy
Host of Alphabet Soup: 2009 Calgary Unschooling Conference
http://www.alphabetsoupconference.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlphabetSoupConference/
cindybablitz
> Have you considered letting him have some control over thoseI like this suggestion. And have used it.
> things?
"If we're going to get to <place we planned to go> on time, we need
to leave now. But I notice you're <watching/playing/doing> and seem
reluctant to interrupt that. Do you want a few more minutes?"
Ninety nine per cent of the activities we plan to do that
are 'scheduled' are events at which a few minutes flex one way or the
other won't make or break the deal. Empowering our children with the
control to choose to be on time, or late, AND to honour their desire
in this moment can be a peacemaking way. Of course, this strategy
entirely hinges on my ability to be cool with being 'late' ... which
is usually the greater challenge. I am really learning that right
now: (again ... ho hum) how important is my own willingness to set
my own agenda aside for the greater good of supporting my children in
developing their own sense of self and empowerment. My ability or
lack thereof to do this with grace, can entirely make or break so
many moments ... .
loving,
Cindy
Host of Alphabet Soup: 2009 Calgary Unschooling Conference
http://www.alphabetsoupconference.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlphabetSoupConference/
cindybablitz
> I wish there was something I could say to convince you to drop theAlthough I haven't personally verified this, I was once told that the
> ADHD label. "Real" or not - it doesn't really matter at all now
> that you're unschooling.
tests for ADHD and for giftedness are almost indistinguishable from
each other. The larger nuance affecting the 'diagnosis' is
subjective to the test giver.
When our eldest was twoish, we started getting pretty consistent
feedback from our teacherly friends and family that we ought get
him "tested" for giftedness. When we asked, "why?" the answers
*always* pertained to creating a coding trail to support him having
access to resources in the school system. This became a big trigger
for us to begin investigating homeschooling, and ultimately,
unschooling.
Today, I'm almost certain if we were to have him "tested", he'd
diagnose positive for ADHD. We have a couch and a loveseat that are
beat to crud from being jumped on: he bounces as he watches. He
bounces as he thinks. He bounces as he creates brilliant, complex,
sophisticated ideas and concepts and story lines and movie ideas and
character studies ... . Take away his ability to be kinesthetic
while he's being "gifted" and I have no doubt a behaviour trail could
lead to an ADHD conclusion.
Labels -- pah! I totally echo Pam's exhortation. Do away with
them. We've never gotten our boys "tested", coded, diagnosed ...
because when we decided we weren't going to subject them to an
institutionalized childhood, we understood how utterly meaningless
labels are.
I feel this way about so many habits of institutionally-oriented
western mainstream. Our middler used to stutter, and well-meaning
friends and family repeatedly suggested we consider taking him to a
speech pathologist. My boys' dad even went so far as to take Tristan
to our family doc for a referral. He got the referral paperwork and
I filed it under dust on my desktop for a year while Tristan
continued developing his own voice, as I trusted he would all along.
One day I suddenly realized, 'huh, Tristan doesn't stutter anymore.'
When I imagined what damage could be done to his wee sense of growing
Self and ok-ness would we have subjected him to treatment to 'fix'
his very voice ... oof. I was glad I had the stubborn intuition to
just wait out his own developing process of getting himself heard.
His elder brother always had so very much to say, I always suspected
the stutter was a symptom of his own hurry to get 'it' out before
being interrupted. Trusting and supporting Tristan to empower his
own voice is one of those mothering triumphs I'll privately always
celebrate. It was the right thing to do versus intervening with a
diagnosing 'fix'.
> Thinking about it at all will only hold you back and onlyI reject pretty outrightly the mainstream compulsion to diagnose and
> hurt him. He is who he is - he has a personality and he has some
> habits and he has natural abilities.
fix children. I like all of what Pam has to say here ... and am
grateful to read it.
> FOCUS ON HIS STRENGTHS and ignore the weaknesses. I'm serious. Letloving,
> them just GO out your head. Be brave. Don't even worry
> about "problem areas."
> Focus entirely on what he loves, what he is good at, what you enjoy
> together. Have fun. Don't try to fix him. Enjoy him as he is. Work
> around any inconveniences that come from his personality
> characteristics.
> Accommodate the real him.
Cindy
Host of Alphabet Soup: 2009 Calgary Unschooling Conference
http://www.alphabetsoupconference.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlphabetSoupConference/
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 26, 2009, at 2:38 AM, cindybablitz wrote:
be late for her art class and she said she'd rather be late than
early because she didn't like waiting around before class (even
though I always had plenty of waiting around stuff to do.)
Also the more understanding we are of their feelings, the more
understanding they'll be when we tell them it's an occasion when it's
important to us or to someone else to be on time.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Empowering our children with theYes. It surprised me when I asked Kathryn whether it bothered her to
> control to choose to be on time, or late, AND to honour their desire
> in this moment can be a peacemaking way. Of course, this strategy
> entirely hinges on my ability to be cool with being 'late'
be late for her art class and she said she'd rather be late than
early because she didn't like waiting around before class (even
though I always had plenty of waiting around stuff to do.)
Also the more understanding we are of their feelings, the more
understanding they'll be when we tell them it's an occasion when it's
important to us or to someone else to be on time.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
> he bounces as he watches. He bounces as he thinks. He bounces as hecreates brilliant, complex, sophisticated ideas and concepts and story
lines and movie ideas and
character studies ... . Take away his ability to be kinesthetic while
he's being "gifted" and I have no doubt a behaviour trail could lead to
an ADHD conclusion.
Sounds like DS...we even had to turn OFF the motion sensing feature on
the PS3 for some games because he kept crashing his airplane while he
was bouncing. He can literally bounce on a mini trampoline (really saves
the furniture!) while playing videogames and keep track of his character
and all the other players using split screen AND beat the shoes off
them. One time, just to test a theory I had, I waited until a usual
situation occurred - I was sitting at the table finishing reading an
article after dinner. He came in to tell me the plot of a story he was
thinking about. As he was talking, he was walking circles around the
table, with occasional bounces thrown in at exciting parts. I casually
slid my chair slightly so he had to stop to navigate by me. Sure enough
(as I had hypothesized), he stopped talking when he stopped walking. As
soon as he was by me, he continued (I then moved my chair back out of
his way). One of his current favorite things is to peddle our recumbent
exercise bike while he's reading - he'll peddle for a chapter or two
then go back to doing something else. His need to move was just one of
several factors that confirmed to us that NEVER setting him in a
classroom was a good idea.
Deb R
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