Pamela

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/homeschoolpen-pals

My 8 yr old has gotten 6 pen pals from all over the USA from this site
and it is interesting for him to learn of geography looking up where
his new pen pal friends live. SO check here for a pen pal for your
kids if you are still looking for pen pals!

My son also has to WRITE which I use his letter writing as his
handwriting practice. Handwriting is something that he dreads as he
has learning issues due to Dygraphia etc...so it is a good thing for
me and easy to get him to reply to a letter he receives.

Hope this is helpful, sure helped my son to write cursive on his own!
:) Pam

Kelly Lovejoy

-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela <ohwhatacruise@...>


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/homeschoolpen-pals

My 8 yr old has gotten 6 pen pals from all over the USA from this site
and it is interesting for him to learn of geography looking up where
his new pen pal friends live. SO check here for a pen pal for your
kids if you are still looking for pen pals!

My son also has to WRITE which I use his letter writing as his
handwriting practice. Handwriting is something that he dreads as he
has learning issues due to Dygraphia etc...so it is a good thing for
me and easy to get him to reply to a letter he receives.

Hope this is helpful, sure helped my son to write cursive on his own!


***************************************************************





I just want to stress that the *goal* of having penpals should NOT be the act of writing.



Children don't *have to* write to have penpals. Mom can do the writing. The goal should be making new friends. The writing and geography are *side effects* of having a penpal: we want to correspond with a friend and find out about where he lives.




That's how unschooling works. We learn what we need to learn---because it behooves us. We can learn some really, really difficult things if we *want* to.


 ~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." ~Gandhi














[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

carenkh

My oldest did not like writing, even on the computer. But he had
*amazing* story ideas, so I'd sit at the computer and type, and he'd
dictate. I typed for him on message boards, too. Without me even
realizing it, he started writing for himself at least a couple years
ago. It just gradually stopped! But I always joyfully wrote or typed
for him when he asked, until one day I noticed that HE was typing for
a friend of HIS! It happened with no coercion, no need for me to
"teach" him anything.

I had doubted that; I have friends who believe if you do for a child
what they "should" be able to do for themselves, you're sending them
the message that you think they *can't* do it. That's not how it
worked out for us! Nor for thousands of other unschoolers.

What is the purpose of pen pals? Communication, connection, fun,
getting to know someone, getting to hear about different cultures.
Writing will happen organically; maybe not through pen pals
specifically, but watching you write will help that along, certainly.
One thing I love about unschooling is you can DROP the need for your
kids to learn; if you aim for joy, learning will happen.

Caren

pebsflower

--Hi. "What is the purpose of pen pals? Communication, connection, fun,
getting to know someone, getting to hear about different cultures.
Writing will happen organically; "
Writing does happen organiclay...just like anything else children
learn..they learn it when and how it is best for them. This is the
great part about being unschooled..we can use this to benifit the child.
I love how you worded the What is the perpose of pen pals...this is great!

Pebs
- In [email protected], "carenkh" <carenkh@...> wrote:
>
> My oldest did not like writing, even on the computer. But he had
> *amazing* story ideas, so I'd sit at the computer and type, and he'd
> dictate. I typed for him on message boards, too. Without me even
> realizing it, he started writing for himself at least a couple years
> ago. It just gradually stopped! But I always joyfully wrote or typed
> for him when he asked, until one day I noticed that HE was typing for
> a friend of HIS! It happened with no coercion, no need for me to
> "teach" him anything.
>
> I had doubted that; I have friends who believe if you do for a child
> what they "should" be able to do for themselves, you're sending them
> the message that you think they *can't* do it. That's not how it
> worked out for us! Nor for thousands of other unschoolers.
>
> What is the purpose of pen pals? Communication, connection, fun,
> getting to know someone, getting to hear about different cultures.
> Writing will happen organically; maybe not through pen pals
> specifically, but watching you write will help that along, certainly.
> One thing I love about unschooling is you can DROP the need for your
> kids to learn; if you aim for joy, learning will happen.
>
> Caren
>

pebsflower

--- Oh, this group is getting ready to launch a post card exchange for
al over the world. Join today and be part of it! You will be able to
participate in echangeing post cards with many unschooolers and
homeschoolers i lots of dirrerent places. This is a great way t see
the world!

Even adults can participate here!
Pebs
In [email protected], "carenkh" <carenkh@...> wrote:
>
> My oldest did not like writing, even on the computer. But he had
> *amazing* story ideas, so I'd sit at the computer and type, and he'd
> dictate. I typed for him on message boards, too. Without me even
> realizing it, he started writing for himself at least a couple years
> ago. It just gradually stopped! But I always joyfully wrote or typed
> for him when he asked, until one day I noticed that HE was typing for
> a friend of HIS! It happened with no coercion, no need for me to
> "teach" him anything.
>
> I had doubted that; I have friends who believe if you do for a child
> what they "should" be able to do for themselves, you're sending them
> the message that you think they *can't* do it. That's not how it
> worked out for us! Nor for thousands of other unschoolers.
>
> What is the purpose of pen pals? Communication, connection, fun,
> getting to know someone, getting to hear about different cultures.
> Writing will happen organically; maybe not through pen pals
> specifically, but watching you write will help that along, certainly.
> One thing I love about unschooling is you can DROP the need for your
> kids to learn; if you aim for joy, learning will happen.
>
> Caren
>

Pamela

I was just making a point that BY having pen pals my son started
writing cursive on his own. The pen pals seemed to motivate him and he
started saying "LOOK AT MY CURSIVE" and he took out a USA map puzzle
and found where the kids live who wrote to him. If he wants to just
print a picture of his dog and write on the back THIS IS MY DOG
MICHAEL JORDAN, then he does that and sends it...

Unschooling to some is not the same as it is to others. I am ALL
about giving him options and letting him enjoy his own writing. It can
surely not be a bad thing for him to have legible handwriting...and a
pen pal FRIEND is just one way to re-enforce his handwriting skills
and encourage him to learn about the places his friends live. I do
tend to think if having me to write it for him would not be
right..especially since the pen pal took the effort to write his own
letters. That is why if he is not in the mood to write much, we send a
picture of one of our animals or something he finds his friend will be
interested in.

Why I felt the need to explain myself is beyond me.....

--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy
<kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pamela <ohwhatacruise@...>
>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/homeschoolpen-pals
>
> My 8 yr old has gotten 6 pen pals from all over the USA from this site
> and it is interesting for him to learn of geography looking up where
> his new pen pal friends live. SO check here for a pen pal for your
> kids if you are still looking for pen pals!
>
> My son also has to WRITE which I use his letter writing as his
> handwriting practice. Handwriting is something that he dreads as he
> has learning issues due to Dygraphia etc...so it is a good thing for
> me and easy to get him to reply to a letter he receives.
>
> Hope this is helpful, sure helped my son to write cursive on his own!
>
>
> ***************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> I just want to stress that the *goal* of having penpals should NOT
be the act of writing.
>
>
>
> Children don't *have to* write to have penpals. Mom can do the
writing. The goal should be making new friends. The writing and
geography are *side effects* of having a penpal: we want to correspond
with a friend and find out about where he lives.
>
>
>
>
> That's how unschooling works. We learn what we need to
learn---because it behooves us. We can learn some really, really
difficult things if we *want* to.
>
>
>  ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> "Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live
forever." ~Gandhi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Pamela"
<ohwhatacruise@...> wrote:
>
> I was just making a point that BY having pen pals my son started
> writing cursive on his own.

Kids are often motivated to do things when they see a reason for -
its a good example of that, for sure.

At the same time, this sort of thing can be used as a tactic for
trying to motivate a child to do something he or she doesn't want to
do, or isn't ready to do - and then its counterproductive. I'm not
saying that's what you did! Its more a caveat for anyone
wondering "how do I get my kid to do xyz..." Opportunities are good,
manipulation, though, can undermine learning big time.

>I do
> tend to think if having me to write it for him would not be
> right..especially since the pen pal took the effort to write his own
> letters. That is why if he is not in the mood to write much, we
send a
> picture of one of our animals or something he finds his friend will
be
> interested in.

It makes good sense to give him options besides writing, pictures are
a good idea.

I'm happy to write things for Mo, when she asks, although she likes
to write much of the time. Sometimes her mind is going so much faster
than she can write - faster than I can write, even! Typing is a
little easier, when I remember. I can see where, with a letter, you'd
be concerned about it seeming authentic - typing might be a good
compromise, there. You could use a font that's more like handwriting,
or just something quirky and fun if he really had a Lot to say but
didn't have the energy to write it all out longhand. That's the
biggest potential issue with not-writing for kids, it shuts down
their ability to express themselves in print if their hands can't
keep up with their thoughts.

> Why I felt the need to explain myself is beyond me.....

I'm sorry you felt misunderstood or attacked. Sharing information
like this can be pretty nuancy... it can leave you feeling a
little "raw" when someone makes a comment that you didn't expect.

---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 21, 2009, at 5:02 PM, Pamela wrote:

> I was just making a point that BY having pen pals my son started
> writing cursive on his own.

What you said was:

> My son also has to WRITE which I use his letter writing as his
> handwriting practice.

People respond to words sent to the list, not to intent.

This is not directed at you, or what you do in your home, but at the
words and ideas put onto the list.

Having to write is not a helpful idea for an unschooling list --
though it can spark enlightening discussion! Nor is using a child's
activity as practice. I do see you emphasized WRITE meaning he's not
speaking, but the "have tos" that live in our heads can be hugely
helpful to examine.

Sandra Dodd has a good page on them:

http://sandradodd.com/haveto

> Handwriting is something that he dreads as he
> has learning issues due to Dygraphia etc...so it is a good thing for
> me and easy to get him to reply to a letter he receives.


> It can
> surely not be a bad thing for him to have legible handwriting

It can be useful, but it's helpful to natural learning to focus on
the child's reasons rather than on goals that are external to the
child. It's useful to be aware in the backs of our minds of side
effects that happen from real life activities, but helpful to let go
of external goals.

That is an unschooling concept that causes confusion. To get away
from from the schoolish idea of one path to one skill (reading
practice leads to reading, writing practice leads to writing, history
texts lead to history knowledge), it's useful to be aware of the
myriad of ways that life contributes to those skills. And, also, how
its rare for one activity to draw on only one skill! Parents look at
video games and think video game skills ;-) But video games probably
draw on more skills than practically any other activity!

There are dozens of real reasons -- reasons the kids want to do --
for kids to handwrite: notes, drawings with captions, comics, labels,
lists, collections, letters, cards, just for the fun of forming
letters :-) ... (There are also activities related to handwriting:
art made from letters (alphabet pasta in pictures, making a name out
of playdough, and so on), calligraphy, different fonts on the
computer (and how far a letter can be warped and still be the same
letter.)

(For those with Macs, you might have Font Book installed that will
let you see the different ways each font displays each letter. Under
Edit in the menu is "Special Characters". When that opens, pull down
View (upper left on the palete) to display Roman. Scroll down the
left hand list to Latin. Then over on the right you can click on
letters and see the variations on "A" and "f" and so on. It's lots
more impressive if you have a lot of different fonts :-) And of
course there's loads of other things to explore in the character
palate. (Dingbats and foreign fonts.) You can also pull the letters
off the lower palete into some documents (like Pages and Mail) and
create sort of a ransom note effect.)

But once we have confidence that we can have real opportunities for
kids to handwrite running through their lives, activities they can
pick up or ignore as the muse strikes them, it helps unschooling to
flourish to focus on the joy of the activity rather than the side
effect.

Also by focusing on the joy in the activity, it's *lots* easier to
let go of unconscious pressure towards the side effect that we see as
useful.

> ...and a
> pen pal FRIEND is just one way to re-enforce his handwriting skills
> and encourage him to learn about the places his friends live.

Absolutely. And it's helpful for people still thinking in school
terms to see how skills acquired through practice in school are
natural to life. But it's also helpful once someone begins
unschooling to let those go and focus on the child and running many
opportunities for what the child enjoys through the child's life.

> I do
> tend to think if having me to write it for him would not be
> right..especially since the pen pal took the effort to write his own
> letters.

And lots of parents send their kids to school and those kids aren't
too happy that ours get to stay home! But would it be right to send
our children to school so the other children aren't jealous?

And some kids are writing under duress because the *other* child has
written his own letter. It's a vicious cycle of kids who are
gathering unpleasant associations with writing and handwriting.

The focus of unschooling should foremost be the relationship, between
child and parent *and* between child and what they're doing too.

Those little guilt trips are helpful to let go for both the mom and
the child! Joy and guilt aren't a good mix!

Maybe a useful-to-beginning-unschooling way to look at pen pal
letters (and other real life activities kids take on) is a multi-step
process:

1, See *lots* of the skills an activity touches on. For the pan pal
activity it's: geography, handwriting, writing, social connections,
social awareness, art, math, postal service and so on. I'm not saying
you do the following -- and you say later that you don't -- but it's
a good thing for others to see written out: If mom focuses on one of
those skills and pressures the child to do the activity because it's
good for handwriting or geography, she runs the risk of 1) creating
unpleasant associations with the activity and skill so the child will
want to avoid other opportunities that remind them of the
unpleasantness, and 2) the child deciding the activity isn't fun so
dropping it and missing out on the other connections.

2. Seeing lots of *other* ways life draws on those skills. That way
it doesn't feel like one activity is any more important than any
other activity. It helps us let go of the irrational fear that if he
doesn't write pen pal letters, how will he ever learn to write!
During the time a child is writing pen pal letters, they're *not*
making labels or cartoons or playing with letter stamps. They're also
*not* doing something that may be more meaningful to them in their
right now life that involves art or math or physical skills or strategy.

3. And finally, completely let go of the idea that activities lead to
skills :-) Focus on helping kids find activities that they enjoy.
Focus on letting go of the less fun parts and/or find ways to make
them enjoyable. Be confident in the knowledge that basic skills are
drawn on for loads of activities. (It's why they're basic!)

4. Focus on your child. What does he love to do? Help him find more
of that and expand on it to the level that *he* wants :-)

4. Let yourself occasionally look at the skills and school subjects.
(This is most helpful after someone is fully confident that life
activities draw on lots of skills.) I think it's easy for our own
biases of favorite activities to skew what we choose to strew. I know
I strewed more books than out of the house activities. I got lucky
that Kathryn was very similar to my personality but the more an
unschooling mom reaches beyond her own likes for potential new
interests the more helpful the strewing will be since our kids are
not us :-)

> That is why if he is not in the mood to write much, we send a
> picture of one of our animals or something he finds his friend will be
> interested in.

And that's exactly how unschooling can work. :-)

Joyce

Mary Kay

Thanks for telling us about this. this sounds great on so many
levels. I just joined int he hopes of looking for penpals for my 6
y.o. twins, but I have a question: do they do this via snail mail or
email or both?

When I heard that someone was able to have their child dictate to
them, it piqued my curiosity for my own two, who are not yet reading
or writing.

It sounds exciting.

Thanks again,

Mary Kay

cindybablitz

... Catching up on a few days of reading! ...

> I do tend to think having me to write it for him would not be
> right.

I'm writing a book at the moment. (About unschooling.) It's a book
of essays -- one for every letter of the alphabet. Advocacy,
Beliefs, Cloning ... like that.

My nine year old and I were talking about my book last weekend, and
about my chapter titles, and his ideas for some chapter titles. He
started monologuing about cloning and it struck me to run and grab a
piece of paper to transcript what he was saying.

As he talked, I thought: wouldn't it be cool to have one of my
chapters about an unschooling life be written by my nine year old
always unschooled son? And so I proposed the idea to Noah. This,
after he just monologued a brilliant essay on cloning. He hesitated
and said, "Well, I'm not sure if I'm good enough at writing to write
a whole chapter of your book. I get tired after I write a while."

I realized, *he* was thinking that the creative act of "writing" was
in the physical act of keyboarding, or putting pen to paper; while
*I* think the creative act of "writing" is in the creative conjuring
up of the ideas and words ... at which my babe is a chop off the old
block. <G> If I do say so myself. And I do. <G>

I said, "Babe! I can keyboard almost as fast as you can talk.
*Anyone* can record the spoken word! But you who come up with the
ideas behind the words -- you are the "Writer"!"

And by that clarification, he decided, yeah, he could write my
chapter on Cloning. We're collaborating on that this weekend.

> I do tend to think having me to write it for him would not be
> right.

Once Gutenberg made the brilliant hand drawings of all those
transcribing monks more or less an obsolete practice, perhaps its
fair to say that "writing" isn't about tangible mechanics, but about
the more esoteric, intangible relationship building. Even I don't
expect to know every reader of my book ... but I do create from a
conviction that I am building a relationship with every reader
nevertheless ... . The 'how' my ideas get conveyed, in the end, (as,
after an initial hard copy run, I plan to ultimately offer my
chapters one at a time as a la carte e-books available for purchase
online) matter less than the 'why' ... and maybe the same can be seen
to be true for penpaling writers?

loving,

Cindy

Host of Alphabet Soup: 2009 Calgary Unschooling Conference
http://www.alphabetsoupconference.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlphabetSoupConference/