What about cleaning her room? And other Qs from a newbie
Melissa
Hello! I'm Melissa, momma to three & newly interested in unschooling.
My eldest child, Madison, is 7 & we spent a year homeschooling
followed by a year in public school. We removed her from school at
the beginning of the her second year of public school & began
homeschooling again.
We've always taken a really laid back approach to parenting &
schooling. We're mainly a family who really enjoys spending time
together, which is why we decided on the homeschooling route in the
first place. My husband works retail, so his schedule is always
changing & he rarely has weekends off; when Madison was in public
school, she would go days without seeing her dad. Not cool!
So I've just recently joined this list & have been quietly reading
for a few days. There are some awesome people here & I totally
appreciate the words of wisdom passed along. I've even written down
some quotations that have struck me; rereading them & putting them
into practice I think has already helped me be a gentler momma. I'm
so thankful for that, as I've struggled with keeping my cool. I'm
ashamed to admit I've been a yeller, so reading through the posts
here and following some really interesting links has reenforced &
firmed up my ability to practice patience with my little ones. Thank
you all for that!
I've really enjoyed & learned from the discussion on
bedtimes/routines. Like I mentioned, my husband works retail so he
has some really late nights sometimes, so we don't make an early
bedtime a big deal. I've gotten a lot of flack from my dad about not
having my children on a schedule. I say, we do have a schedule; it's
just a floating schedule that changes as we need it to. :)
So I do have some questions for whomever has stayed with me through
all the blabbering. First, what about chores? I don't assign a list
of chores, but I do expect my girls to help out as time & age permit.
They're usually happy to help out, but there is occasional grumbling.
How do unschooling families deal with chores/houseworky type stuff?
We live in a modestly sized home, so it's important for sanity's sake
that we attempt to stay fairly well organized & pick up messes before
they become disasters. That said, I'm not striving for anything other
than liveable & comfortable while my girls are young, so please don't
think I'm asking how to keep a clean & pretty home. I simply wonder
what unschooling as a lifestyle says about having our children
perform some simple, basic chores.
I did have some other questions, but I've managed to forget the
others in the time it's taken me to type this out, in between nursing
& answering questions & hearing some awesome facts about dinosaurs
(did you know that micropachycephalosaurus is the longest dinosaur
name?).
I look forward to acquiring some more unschooling wisdom!
~Melissa
Madison (7), Meara (3) & Maisie Jane (4mos)
My eldest child, Madison, is 7 & we spent a year homeschooling
followed by a year in public school. We removed her from school at
the beginning of the her second year of public school & began
homeschooling again.
We've always taken a really laid back approach to parenting &
schooling. We're mainly a family who really enjoys spending time
together, which is why we decided on the homeschooling route in the
first place. My husband works retail, so his schedule is always
changing & he rarely has weekends off; when Madison was in public
school, she would go days without seeing her dad. Not cool!
So I've just recently joined this list & have been quietly reading
for a few days. There are some awesome people here & I totally
appreciate the words of wisdom passed along. I've even written down
some quotations that have struck me; rereading them & putting them
into practice I think has already helped me be a gentler momma. I'm
so thankful for that, as I've struggled with keeping my cool. I'm
ashamed to admit I've been a yeller, so reading through the posts
here and following some really interesting links has reenforced &
firmed up my ability to practice patience with my little ones. Thank
you all for that!
I've really enjoyed & learned from the discussion on
bedtimes/routines. Like I mentioned, my husband works retail so he
has some really late nights sometimes, so we don't make an early
bedtime a big deal. I've gotten a lot of flack from my dad about not
having my children on a schedule. I say, we do have a schedule; it's
just a floating schedule that changes as we need it to. :)
So I do have some questions for whomever has stayed with me through
all the blabbering. First, what about chores? I don't assign a list
of chores, but I do expect my girls to help out as time & age permit.
They're usually happy to help out, but there is occasional grumbling.
How do unschooling families deal with chores/houseworky type stuff?
We live in a modestly sized home, so it's important for sanity's sake
that we attempt to stay fairly well organized & pick up messes before
they become disasters. That said, I'm not striving for anything other
than liveable & comfortable while my girls are young, so please don't
think I'm asking how to keep a clean & pretty home. I simply wonder
what unschooling as a lifestyle says about having our children
perform some simple, basic chores.
I did have some other questions, but I've managed to forget the
others in the time it's taken me to type this out, in between nursing
& answering questions & hearing some awesome facts about dinosaurs
(did you know that micropachycephalosaurus is the longest dinosaur
name?).
I look forward to acquiring some more unschooling wisdom!
~Melissa
Madison (7), Meara (3) & Maisie Jane (4mos)
DJ250
Well, I'm a Melissa, too, so from now on, I guess I'll have to be Melissa J! :)
Take a look at these two sites for some great answers to your questions, including the one about chores:
www.sandradodd.com (unschooling section)
www.joyfullyrejoycing.com
BTW, where are you located?
~Melissa J :)
Take a look at these two sites for some great answers to your questions, including the one about chores:
www.sandradodd.com (unschooling section)
www.joyfullyrejoycing.com
BTW, where are you located?
~Melissa J :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Melissa
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 12:34 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] What about cleaning her room? And other Qs from a newbie
Hello! I'm Melissa, momma to three & newly interested in unschooling.
My eldest child, Madison, is 7 & we spent a year homeschooling
followed by a year in public school. We removed her from school at
the beginning of the her second year of public school & began
homeschooling again.
We've always taken a really laid back approach to parenting &
schooling. We're mainly a family who really enjoys spending time
together, which is why we decided on the homeschooling route in the
first place. My husband works retail, so his schedule is always
changing & he rarely has weekends off; when Madison was in public
school, she would go days without seeing her dad. Not cool!
So I've just recently joined this list & have been quietly reading
for a few days. There are some awesome people here & I totally
appreciate the words of wisdom passed along. I've even written down
some quotations that have struck me; rereading them & putting them
into practice I think has already helped me be a gentler momma. I'm
so thankful for that, as I've struggled with keeping my cool. I'm
ashamed to admit I've been a yeller, so reading through the posts
here and following some really interesting links has reenforced &
firmed up my ability to practice patience with my little ones. Thank
you all for that!
I've really enjoyed & learned from the discussion on
bedtimes/routines. Like I mentioned, my husband works retail so he
has some really late nights sometimes, so we don't make an early
bedtime a big deal. I've gotten a lot of flack from my dad about not
having my children on a schedule. I say, we do have a schedule; it's
just a floating schedule that changes as we need it to. :)
So I do have some questions for whomever has stayed with me through
all the blabbering. First, what about chores? I don't assign a list
of chores, but I do expect my girls to help out as time & age permit.
They're usually happy to help out, but there is occasional grumbling.
How do unschooling families deal with chores/houseworky type stuff?
We live in a modestly sized home, so it's important for sanity's sake
that we attempt to stay fairly well organized & pick up messes before
they become disasters. That said, I'm not striving for anything other
than liveable & comfortable while my girls are young, so please don't
think I'm asking how to keep a clean & pretty home. I simply wonder
what unschooling as a lifestyle says about having our children
perform some simple, basic chores.
I did have some other questions, but I've managed to forget the
others in the time it's taken me to type this out, in between nursing
& answering questions & hearing some awesome facts about dinosaurs
(did you know that micropachycephalosaurus is the longest dinosaur
name?).
I look forward to acquiring some more unschooling wisdom!
~Melissa
Madison (7), Meara (3) & Maisie Jane (4mos)
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Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Melissa" <melchick210@...>
wrote:
people. They are busy exploring and discovering and making
connections. That takes up a lot of time and energy, especially with
younger kids, like yours. Asking them to stop in the middle of all
that to do something they aren't interested in doing isn't a simple
request from their perspectives. Its just as invasive as telling a
child to put away the blocks and come do a math worksheet.
As kids get older, they'll start to have more appreciation for
order. Learning how to create order will become one of their
interests and motivations - it really will! Yesterday my 15yo was
utterly possessed with the urge to clean and organize his room. He's
not a tidy person by nature (and neither are his parents), either.
But he's reached a point in his life where cleaning his own space has
personal value. It happens. Kids are far less likely to do this sort
of thing willingly if they haven't had the option to say "no" or "not
right now" for awhile. Ray took almost two years of deschooling to
get there.
that, its a pretty scary concept. I suspect you don't really want
your relationship with your kids to be some kind of "performance"
that they put on for your benefit - most likely, you want to have a
genuinely caring relationship with them. But pushing children to do
chores is a lot like requiring them to perform in some way (in my
mind I have an image of a child standing on a chair reciting poetry
for guests) - it tears down the value of what they choose to do with
their own time and energy. Unschooling revolves around supporting
those very choices.
and games with small parts, so you can pick up the whole kitten-
kaboodle in one swoop. Place bins and baskets in convenient locations
for cleanup. It might help to rethink some of the ways your whole
house is organized with the needs of busy young children in mind, in
order to make putting things *back* faster and more convenient.
In our house, for instance, all the books in the house are in the
process of being moved to the living room. My books and Morgan's
books have been in our respective rooms, but she likes to read in the
living room more often, now, and Ray wants to read all my books - so
its easier to do a big rearrangement than to keep running up and down
the stairs with armloads of books.
Another example - an unschooling mom I know irl has converted one
bedroom in her house into The Lego and Trains Room. It ended up being
easier on everyone to reshuffle sleeping arrangements and give over a
whole room to things with lots of tiny parts, so that all those parts
can stay in one place. They moved a tv in there so the kids don't
ever have to argue about dragging legos into the living room to watch
tv. The mom likes a tidy house, and this was a solution that worked
well for everyone.
All that being said, if I'm in the midst of cleaning or tidying up
for company I'll tell the kids (my 7yo, especially) "please don't
bring that in here/ start that project/ get those toys out Right Now -
I'm trying to get the room clean!" Plus I regularly say things
like "please do that Over the trash can" or "do that in the sink" or
even "that's too messy for inside, take it on the porch, please."
Its not a matter of mom giving up all her boundaries or something!
Much of where unschooling is different from other kinds of parenting,
though, has to do with questioning those boundaries to see when they
aren't really boundaries at all. Sometimes what we think are
boundaries are habits or social conventions that can be modified or
done away with entirely.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
wrote:
> I simply wonderIts useful to ask yourself "simple/basic to whom?" Kids are very busy
> what unschooling as a lifestyle says about having our children
> perform some simple, basic chores.
>
people. They are busy exploring and discovering and making
connections. That takes up a lot of time and energy, especially with
younger kids, like yours. Asking them to stop in the middle of all
that to do something they aren't interested in doing isn't a simple
request from their perspectives. Its just as invasive as telling a
child to put away the blocks and come do a math worksheet.
As kids get older, they'll start to have more appreciation for
order. Learning how to create order will become one of their
interests and motivations - it really will! Yesterday my 15yo was
utterly possessed with the urge to clean and organize his room. He's
not a tidy person by nature (and neither are his parents), either.
But he's reached a point in his life where cleaning his own space has
personal value. It happens. Kids are far less likely to do this sort
of thing willingly if they haven't had the option to say "no" or "not
right now" for awhile. Ray took almost two years of deschooling to
get there.
>...having our children perform...I pulled this phrase out to highlight it a bit more. On its own, like
that, its a pretty scary concept. I suspect you don't really want
your relationship with your kids to be some kind of "performance"
that they put on for your benefit - most likely, you want to have a
genuinely caring relationship with them. But pushing children to do
chores is a lot like requiring them to perform in some way (in my
mind I have an image of a child standing on a chair reciting poetry
for guests) - it tears down the value of what they choose to do with
their own time and energy. Unschooling revolves around supporting
those very choices.
> We live in a modestly sized home, so it's important for sanity'ssake
> that we attempt to stay fairly well organized & pick up messesbefore
> they become disasters.As much as possible, streamline cleanup. Put down blankets for toys
and games with small parts, so you can pick up the whole kitten-
kaboodle in one swoop. Place bins and baskets in convenient locations
for cleanup. It might help to rethink some of the ways your whole
house is organized with the needs of busy young children in mind, in
order to make putting things *back* faster and more convenient.
In our house, for instance, all the books in the house are in the
process of being moved to the living room. My books and Morgan's
books have been in our respective rooms, but she likes to read in the
living room more often, now, and Ray wants to read all my books - so
its easier to do a big rearrangement than to keep running up and down
the stairs with armloads of books.
Another example - an unschooling mom I know irl has converted one
bedroom in her house into The Lego and Trains Room. It ended up being
easier on everyone to reshuffle sleeping arrangements and give over a
whole room to things with lots of tiny parts, so that all those parts
can stay in one place. They moved a tv in there so the kids don't
ever have to argue about dragging legos into the living room to watch
tv. The mom likes a tidy house, and this was a solution that worked
well for everyone.
All that being said, if I'm in the midst of cleaning or tidying up
for company I'll tell the kids (my 7yo, especially) "please don't
bring that in here/ start that project/ get those toys out Right Now -
I'm trying to get the room clean!" Plus I regularly say things
like "please do that Over the trash can" or "do that in the sink" or
even "that's too messy for inside, take it on the porch, please."
Its not a matter of mom giving up all her boundaries or something!
Much of where unschooling is different from other kinds of parenting,
though, has to do with questioning those boundaries to see when they
aren't really boundaries at all. Sometimes what we think are
boundaries are habits or social conventions that can be modified or
done away with entirely.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
raisingexplorers
My boys are 5 & 6. I usually just do my household chores and allow
them the opportunity to help, if they want. Yesterday, I got some help
cleaning their bedroom and their bathroom and some of the kitchen and
sunroom (big cleaning day) without asking at all. They offer to help,
they help until they've had their fill.. then they are free to go and
I will continue my work.
Sometimes, I ask if they'd like to help - when it's work they enjoy.
For some reason, they like to do laundry, so I will announce laundry
time, to give them the opportunity to help.
I don't have any expectations on them when it comes to chores. I don't
expect them to do chores, I don't expect them to help the entire time,
and I don't expect them to do the job to *my* standards. They do
chores if they choose to do chores, they do them for as long as they
wish, and they do the chores to their own standards.
I consider any chores they do to be very considerate toward me, as the
household chores are primarily things that are my responsibility. I
appreciate that they are so often willing to help me out and I don't
leave them stranded, doing chores on their own - unless they are
content to do it that way. Like, washing windows.. my youngest will
sit there and wash windows for ever and does not care if I am there or
not. But, for the most part, they are much happier to be helping me in
my company.
The boys have started, about once a month or so, *surprising* me by
having done some task on their own, without my knowledge, for my
benefit. Like a gift from them. I really like that.
My father complained that I'm not teaching them structure and
responsibility... but, I feel like having them CHOOSE to do the
chores, and setting their own standards of completion, and surprising
me with tasks done that I never had to ask them to do... sounds a lot
like responsible, considerate people. And if I forced them to do
things, and demanded that it be done this or that way - his way of
getting kids to do chores. I don't think it would sound so responsible
or considerate anymore. LOLOL
them the opportunity to help, if they want. Yesterday, I got some help
cleaning their bedroom and their bathroom and some of the kitchen and
sunroom (big cleaning day) without asking at all. They offer to help,
they help until they've had their fill.. then they are free to go and
I will continue my work.
Sometimes, I ask if they'd like to help - when it's work they enjoy.
For some reason, they like to do laundry, so I will announce laundry
time, to give them the opportunity to help.
I don't have any expectations on them when it comes to chores. I don't
expect them to do chores, I don't expect them to help the entire time,
and I don't expect them to do the job to *my* standards. They do
chores if they choose to do chores, they do them for as long as they
wish, and they do the chores to their own standards.
I consider any chores they do to be very considerate toward me, as the
household chores are primarily things that are my responsibility. I
appreciate that they are so often willing to help me out and I don't
leave them stranded, doing chores on their own - unless they are
content to do it that way. Like, washing windows.. my youngest will
sit there and wash windows for ever and does not care if I am there or
not. But, for the most part, they are much happier to be helping me in
my company.
The boys have started, about once a month or so, *surprising* me by
having done some task on their own, without my knowledge, for my
benefit. Like a gift from them. I really like that.
My father complained that I'm not teaching them structure and
responsibility... but, I feel like having them CHOOSE to do the
chores, and setting their own standards of completion, and surprising
me with tasks done that I never had to ask them to do... sounds a lot
like responsible, considerate people. And if I forced them to do
things, and demanded that it be done this or that way - his way of
getting kids to do chores. I don't think it would sound so responsible
or considerate anymore. LOLOL
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 13, 2009, at 12:34 PM, Melissa wrote:
http://sandradodd.com/chores
and
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
down the right hand side is a section for chores and several pages
that address common questions.
Probably the biggest difference between radical unschoolers and
conventional parenting on chores is the mental shift to seeing the
chores as something that *parent* has chosen for the life *parent*
wants to have and provide and then kids can be invited along to help
as you might a friend.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I don't assign a listHere's a couple of places to begin reading:
> of chores, but I do expect my girls to help out as time & age permit.
> They're usually happy to help out, but there is occasional grumbling.
> How do unschooling families deal with chores/houseworky type stuff?
http://sandradodd.com/chores
and
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
down the right hand side is a section for chores and several pages
that address common questions.
Probably the biggest difference between radical unschoolers and
conventional parenting on chores is the mental shift to seeing the
chores as something that *parent* has chosen for the life *parent*
wants to have and provide and then kids can be invited along to help
as you might a friend.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "raisingexplorers"
<raisingexplorers@...> wrote:
adults think of as "chores". Washing is popular with many children -
they don't like to "pick up" but they're thrilled to wash counters,
floors, bathtubs, windows... For awhile Morgan had her own set of
spray bottles with different cleaning products: soapy water, plain
water and vinegar. That was enough for her to wash most things. She'd
ask me to move furniture and bring a step ladder so she could wash
windows and mirrors - there were days when it was all I could do to
stay ahead of her LOL!
I'm always amazed to visit a home where children aren't allowed to
clean independently. Recently I was visiting a home where there were
lots of dirty dishes - and the mom was complaining that she "had to"
do the dishes at night or her 6yo wanted to help. It seemed like an
odd thing to complain about, but I've heard other parents make
similar complaints about kids wanting to do dishes. Generally I
sugest offerring the child a plastic wash basin and a chance to wash
all the non-breakables - which are often the child's dishes anyway.
This particular mom looked really relieved at the suggestion - she'd
honestly never considered that option.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<raisingexplorers@...> wrote:
>> Sometimes, I ask if they'd like to help - when it's work theyenjoy.
> For some reason, they like to do laundry, so I will announce laundryThat's a good point. Sometimes kids really enjoy doing the things we
> time, to give them the opportunity to help.
adults think of as "chores". Washing is popular with many children -
they don't like to "pick up" but they're thrilled to wash counters,
floors, bathtubs, windows... For awhile Morgan had her own set of
spray bottles with different cleaning products: soapy water, plain
water and vinegar. That was enough for her to wash most things. She'd
ask me to move furniture and bring a step ladder so she could wash
windows and mirrors - there were days when it was all I could do to
stay ahead of her LOL!
I'm always amazed to visit a home where children aren't allowed to
clean independently. Recently I was visiting a home where there were
lots of dirty dishes - and the mom was complaining that she "had to"
do the dishes at night or her 6yo wanted to help. It seemed like an
odd thing to complain about, but I've heard other parents make
similar complaints about kids wanting to do dishes. Generally I
sugest offerring the child a plastic wash basin and a chance to wash
all the non-breakables - which are often the child's dishes anyway.
This particular mom looked really relieved at the suggestion - she'd
honestly never considered that option.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Pam Sorooshian
On 2/14/2009 6:00 AM, raisingexplorers wrote:
they don't have a choice. They can be made to be resentful and they can
learn to shirk, when they are forced to do chores against their will.
-pam
> My father complained that I'm not teaching them structure andI agree with you a lot. They can't choose to be generous and helpful if
> responsibility... but, I feel like having them CHOOSE to do the
> chores, and setting their own standards of completion, and surprising
> me with tasks done that I never had to ask them to do... sounds a lot
> like responsible, considerate people. And if I forced them to do
> things, and demanded that it be done this or that way - his way of
> getting kids to do chores. I don't think it would sound so responsible
> or considerate anymore. LOLOL
>
>
>
> -----------------------------
they don't have a choice. They can be made to be resentful and they can
learn to shirk, when they are forced to do chores against their will.
-pam