library & school programs & unschooling
jannabethryan
Hi- would love some feedback on this experience we had the other day.
We were in the library the other day and my daughter wanted to
participate in an after school program that surrounded sea turtles. i
had my other little girl who also needed to be supervised and she was
in the other room. my husband was on his way back to us, but hadn't
got there yet. i knew she needed one of us to be there with her.
there were 75 kids and she had already got a front row seat. i had a
feeling it was going to turn out badly but she really wanted to go
and i had to watch the baby and i was torn, i knew if i took her out
of the library and said no she would have a meltdown. and i had my
baby who i knew would not want to leave either. ahhh! i prayed for
my husband to come back. he finally did and had him check in on her.
she is a spirited child and wants to ask questions and tell her own
stories as they relate to the topic, etc. (and unused to the school
rules, raising hand, listening for long periods and waiting to ask
questions) the presenter was lecturing to the kids. my husband saw
her up front but couldn't get to her, but he saw she looked fine,
quiet and listening. A library person said she would bring her out if
there was a problem. then about 5 or 7 minutes later she came out
upset and then started crying. she told us she wanted to share her
story about the turtle she had found and cared for and "they wouldn't
let her" talk or ask questions. i know i shouldn't have put her in
that position, but i didn't know how to avoid it, she really wanted
to be there! She shared what happened and how everyone was telling
her to be quiet..she was probably interrupting, etc. I feel so
horrible about the whole thing. Anyway, we are already on
people's "radar" here because we don't fit in and we don't do things
the same as everyone else. It's oppressive, the pressure to conform
to the norm. And i don't even consider us radical! I feel like we
can't go anywhere anymore... the librarian can't wait to get rid of
us when she sees us coming. And my kids are really sweet,lively,
sometimes too loud in the library, but that is about it. Can anyone
here share their experience on this subject, i would so appreciate
hearing other people on this. Thanks, Janna
We were in the library the other day and my daughter wanted to
participate in an after school program that surrounded sea turtles. i
had my other little girl who also needed to be supervised and she was
in the other room. my husband was on his way back to us, but hadn't
got there yet. i knew she needed one of us to be there with her.
there were 75 kids and she had already got a front row seat. i had a
feeling it was going to turn out badly but she really wanted to go
and i had to watch the baby and i was torn, i knew if i took her out
of the library and said no she would have a meltdown. and i had my
baby who i knew would not want to leave either. ahhh! i prayed for
my husband to come back. he finally did and had him check in on her.
she is a spirited child and wants to ask questions and tell her own
stories as they relate to the topic, etc. (and unused to the school
rules, raising hand, listening for long periods and waiting to ask
questions) the presenter was lecturing to the kids. my husband saw
her up front but couldn't get to her, but he saw she looked fine,
quiet and listening. A library person said she would bring her out if
there was a problem. then about 5 or 7 minutes later she came out
upset and then started crying. she told us she wanted to share her
story about the turtle she had found and cared for and "they wouldn't
let her" talk or ask questions. i know i shouldn't have put her in
that position, but i didn't know how to avoid it, she really wanted
to be there! She shared what happened and how everyone was telling
her to be quiet..she was probably interrupting, etc. I feel so
horrible about the whole thing. Anyway, we are already on
people's "radar" here because we don't fit in and we don't do things
the same as everyone else. It's oppressive, the pressure to conform
to the norm. And i don't even consider us radical! I feel like we
can't go anywhere anymore... the librarian can't wait to get rid of
us when she sees us coming. And my kids are really sweet,lively,
sometimes too loud in the library, but that is about it. Can anyone
here share their experience on this subject, i would so appreciate
hearing other people on this. Thanks, Janna
carenkh
I'm guessing by "couldn't get to her" you mean, "didn't want to
interrupt everyone by walking to her on the front row". I can
understand that if that's the case, but by not being right *with* her,
she was essentially set up for failure in that environment.
I would have gotten to her no matter what and moved to someplace a
little less obtrusive, where he could have whispered to her, "You can
tell the presenter your story later", "You need to raise your hand to
talk", etc. - just been WITH her, to help her navigate.
I know it can be tough with a little one!
Caren
interrupt everyone by walking to her on the front row". I can
understand that if that's the case, but by not being right *with* her,
she was essentially set up for failure in that environment.
I would have gotten to her no matter what and moved to someplace a
little less obtrusive, where he could have whispered to her, "You can
tell the presenter your story later", "You need to raise your hand to
talk", etc. - just been WITH her, to help her navigate.
I know it can be tough with a little one!
Caren
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "jannabethryan"
<jannabethryan@...> wrote:
not to be at the library during after-school programs. Its just going
to set your kids up for unhappiness. If you just can't resist going,
work to coordinate better with dad so that one of you is on the spot
when the program starts - go right in and sit with her! Its not kind
to her or to anyone else to leave her to deal with that sort of
situation on her own.
your kids can handle without disturbing others. Go to the library in
the middle of the day when its mostly empty - if at all. I rarely
take Mo to libraries, even now. She loves books and loves to read to
other kids, but that generates friction with librarians, when she
pulls a dozen books off the shelf and starts reading aloud, and with
parents who want to get in and out quickly and/or have very distinct
ideas about what their kids *should* read (as in "you're too big for
that", yikes). Ray has never had the patience for libraries at all.
he/she could do a smaller program specifically for homeschoolers OR
if she/he would be willing to simply chat with your dd some time. If
the person presenting was someone who really knows and loves sea
turtles (as opposed to a teacher presenting a topic, if you see what
I mean?) he could very well be thrilled to meet another enthusiast.
I've found that adults can be very accomodating to children who share
their passions - but not in a class setup, where there are specific
expectations for involving the whole group.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<jannabethryan@...> wrote:
> there were 75 kids and she had already got a front row seat.Wow that's a Lot of kids! I'd make a mental note, if that's the norm,
not to be at the library during after-school programs. Its just going
to set your kids up for unhappiness. If you just can't resist going,
work to coordinate better with dad so that one of you is on the spot
when the program starts - go right in and sit with her! Its not kind
to her or to anyone else to leave her to deal with that sort of
situation on her own.
>I feel like weIt may be a good idea to cut your outtings waaaaaaay back to what
> can't go anywhere anymore... the librarian can't wait to get rid of
> us when she sees us coming. And my kids are really sweet,lively,
> sometimes too loud in the library, but that is about it.
your kids can handle without disturbing others. Go to the library in
the middle of the day when its mostly empty - if at all. I rarely
take Mo to libraries, even now. She loves books and loves to read to
other kids, but that generates friction with librarians, when she
pulls a dozen books off the shelf and starts reading aloud, and with
parents who want to get in and out quickly and/or have very distinct
ideas about what their kids *should* read (as in "you're too big for
that", yikes). Ray has never had the patience for libraries at all.
> she told us she wanted to share herSomething else to consider is talking to the presenter and asking if
> story about the turtle she had found and cared for
he/she could do a smaller program specifically for homeschoolers OR
if she/he would be willing to simply chat with your dd some time. If
the person presenting was someone who really knows and loves sea
turtles (as opposed to a teacher presenting a topic, if you see what
I mean?) he could very well be thrilled to meet another enthusiast.
I've found that adults can be very accomodating to children who share
their passions - but not in a class setup, where there are specific
expectations for involving the whole group.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Absolutely all that Caren said. She needed to have someone help her navigate that enviroment.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
________________________________
From: carenkh <carenkh@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 9:18:20 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: library & school programs & unschooling
I'm guessing by "couldn't get to her" you mean, "didn't want to
interrupt everyone by walking to her on the front row". I can
understand that if that's the case, but by not being right *with* her,
she was essentially set up for failure in that environment.
I would have gotten to her no matter what and moved to someplace a
little less obtrusive, where he could have whispered to her, "You can
tell the presenter your story later", "You need to raise your hand to
talk", etc. - just been WITH her, to help her navigate.
I know it can be tough with a little one!
Caren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
________________________________
From: carenkh <carenkh@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 9:18:20 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: library & school programs & unschooling
I'm guessing by "couldn't get to her" you mean, "didn't want to
interrupt everyone by walking to her on the front row". I can
understand that if that's the case, but by not being right *with* her,
she was essentially set up for failure in that environment.
I would have gotten to her no matter what and moved to someplace a
little less obtrusive, where he could have whispered to her, "You can
tell the presenter your story later", "You need to raise your hand to
talk", etc. - just been WITH her, to help her navigate.
I know it can be tough with a little one!
Caren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nanceconfer
One thing I think your daughter could notice from this experience is
how kids are treated in large groups like this. Or when they are in
school.
It isn't like having Mom or Dad to enjoy your story. The dynamic is
different. You are the audience receiving the information, not the
central actor in the story.
Imagining how it would feel to be in that position all day long might
be an interesting conversation. :)
Along with deciding if the event is worth paying attention to and
learning the role she is expected to play. Worth it to your daughter,
I mean.
Nance
--- In [email protected], "jannabethryan"
<jannabethryan@...> wrote:
how kids are treated in large groups like this. Or when they are in
school.
It isn't like having Mom or Dad to enjoy your story. The dynamic is
different. You are the audience receiving the information, not the
central actor in the story.
Imagining how it would feel to be in that position all day long might
be an interesting conversation. :)
Along with deciding if the event is worth paying attention to and
learning the role she is expected to play. Worth it to your daughter,
I mean.
Nance
--- In [email protected], "jannabethryan"
<jannabethryan@...> wrote:
>
> Hi- would love some feedback on this experience we had the other day.
> We were in the library the other day and my daughter wanted to
> participate in an after school program that surrounded sea turtles.
Janna Beth Ryan
Caren, i appreciate your feedback.
i really had no idea that she was going to tell her story about the turtle or any of that. I wasn't sure what she was going to do. she appeared to be fine and quiet at the beginning, but she isn't used to being in those types of settings, obviously and though i know it was a mistake leaving her there without us, hindsight is a perfect science. And my husband made the last call, and i was looking after my other highly active child. we explained things to her afterward, the expectations of situations like that. We are just so terribly isolated here, there are not any unschoolers here and when we go out and a situation like that is presented i'm not surprised she jumped at the prospect of being part of a group of kids coupled with the topic being interesting to her. She is a very outgoing child. Either way, she would have been hurt and angry if i took her out at the beginning (because she really wanted to go) or with the result we had
(having participated). It's very hard. And this is not the first time. I often feel like because there have been very few situations that have "worked" for her in the limited offering we have here (ie. girl scouts, rec programs, and others), I feel like "what are we doing?" I'm not providing her with enough...etc. I don't know how to make this work for her. I cannot stand the isolation. Does anyone identify with me at all?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i really had no idea that she was going to tell her story about the turtle or any of that. I wasn't sure what she was going to do. she appeared to be fine and quiet at the beginning, but she isn't used to being in those types of settings, obviously and though i know it was a mistake leaving her there without us, hindsight is a perfect science. And my husband made the last call, and i was looking after my other highly active child. we explained things to her afterward, the expectations of situations like that. We are just so terribly isolated here, there are not any unschoolers here and when we go out and a situation like that is presented i'm not surprised she jumped at the prospect of being part of a group of kids coupled with the topic being interesting to her. She is a very outgoing child. Either way, she would have been hurt and angry if i took her out at the beginning (because she really wanted to go) or with the result we had
(having participated). It's very hard. And this is not the first time. I often feel like because there have been very few situations that have "worked" for her in the limited offering we have here (ie. girl scouts, rec programs, and others), I feel like "what are we doing?" I'm not providing her with enough...etc. I don't know how to make this work for her. I cannot stand the isolation. Does anyone identify with me at all?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
How old are your girls?
you. Maybe take a look at these pages for some ideas of things to do
together:
http://sandradodd.com/nest
http://sandradodd.com/strew/deblist
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>These community offerings seem to be things to do on her own, not with
> It's very hard. And this is not the first time. I often feel like
> because there have been very few situations that have "worked" for
> her in the limited offering we have here (ie. girl scouts, rec
> programs, and others), I feel like "what are we doing?" I'm not
> providing her with enough...etc.
you. Maybe take a look at these pages for some ideas of things to do
together:
http://sandradodd.com/nest
http://sandradodd.com/strew/deblist
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jet Lakey
I haven't posted here yet so please excuse the "butt in". How old is
your daughter?
I have been in this situation LOTS of times. My son (now 6) is always
animated and interrupting and I used to cringe when attending these
things. He always did the very thing (and still does to a lesser
degree) that your daughter did. And she may always (though less than
now) do those things because of her personality..she is just so
excited to share that it may come across as "rude" or whatever. Even
if you had been sitting next to her the "disruption" would have still
occured..only this time it would have been YOU telling her to raise
her hand, be quiet, wait your turn etc.
I learned to put my son in the LAST row so I could always get to him
easily. beforehand I would explain the rules of waiting to share
until the end unless the teacher asked something then raise his hand.
I also explained to him that I would put my hand on him (shoulder
leg) to help him remember. I still have to walk over and place my
hand on him.
I will say that I am disappointed in the library staff if they are
not working with you by being kind when you go in, thank goodness we
have a great library staff!
I am sure that if I were on stage I would get tomatoes thrown at me
for the next part!:
It is my job to raise my son. this is who my son is. Yes, I want him
to fit into society by knowing the rules (raising hand etc) but in
honesty, I don't expect him to. I am not sure he will ever "conform"
nor do I want him to. But I am not going to deny him some of these
programs because at this point in his life he can't do what other
people (kids teachers etc) expect of him. If he becomes too much of
an annoyance they will let me know and have him removed..until next
time. And there will be a next time. and next time I will still
explain the rules and hope he remembers a little better. And if the
librarians and other kids groan when we come in..oh well. My son is
happy and not observing their behavior and learning something. There
will always be one kid in a group that is somewhat disruptive and
mine is that kid. I am no longer embarrassed by this. I got over the
fact that most parents were criticizing ME because it was obviously
MY fault my kid did this because I wasn't teaching him the ground
rules etc. that I shouldn't allow my son to "ruin" other kids time
etc. And another homeschooler brought something to my awareness. That
in these situations there may always be the chance of someone's time
being "ruined" and it was ok to let that be some other kids time! It
didn't have to be my sons time everytime-which it would if I never
let him sit thru these things or play at the park etc. That I would
be spending a lot of my time denying things that MIGHT turn out to be
an inconvenience to others. that these "others" would get over it but
if I continued to deny these things to my son he might NOT get over
it. I might just turn out to appear to him a parent that never let
him do anything-one he would eventually resent. All because I was
embarrassed what other people thought-and for me that is what it all
boiled down to.
I know I ramble-sorry! In short I would say ask yourself WHY it
bothers you and then do something about it. If it is embarrassing to
you (and I am not saying it is) then let it go and say "this is my
kid" (it takes a long time to get over the embarrassment part-at
least for me). If what is bothering you is the behavior of the staff
then I would explain that you are working on her group manners and
ask if they do a homeschooling group there. As for the oppression
feeling..there are others like you and I that get those looks etc.
Comfort yourself in knowing that the greatest inventers, poets,
writers never sat around quietly conforming. I am sure the George
Lucas types were constantly in the "thick of things" and look where
it got them. Remind your librarian that there are libraries because
there are writers of fantasy etc and those writers stepped over the
line of what people considered "acceptable" thoughts etc!
Well, now that I am covered in rotten food I will step down and
dismiss myself
your daughter?
I have been in this situation LOTS of times. My son (now 6) is always
animated and interrupting and I used to cringe when attending these
things. He always did the very thing (and still does to a lesser
degree) that your daughter did. And she may always (though less than
now) do those things because of her personality..she is just so
excited to share that it may come across as "rude" or whatever. Even
if you had been sitting next to her the "disruption" would have still
occured..only this time it would have been YOU telling her to raise
her hand, be quiet, wait your turn etc.
I learned to put my son in the LAST row so I could always get to him
easily. beforehand I would explain the rules of waiting to share
until the end unless the teacher asked something then raise his hand.
I also explained to him that I would put my hand on him (shoulder
leg) to help him remember. I still have to walk over and place my
hand on him.
I will say that I am disappointed in the library staff if they are
not working with you by being kind when you go in, thank goodness we
have a great library staff!
I am sure that if I were on stage I would get tomatoes thrown at me
for the next part!:
It is my job to raise my son. this is who my son is. Yes, I want him
to fit into society by knowing the rules (raising hand etc) but in
honesty, I don't expect him to. I am not sure he will ever "conform"
nor do I want him to. But I am not going to deny him some of these
programs because at this point in his life he can't do what other
people (kids teachers etc) expect of him. If he becomes too much of
an annoyance they will let me know and have him removed..until next
time. And there will be a next time. and next time I will still
explain the rules and hope he remembers a little better. And if the
librarians and other kids groan when we come in..oh well. My son is
happy and not observing their behavior and learning something. There
will always be one kid in a group that is somewhat disruptive and
mine is that kid. I am no longer embarrassed by this. I got over the
fact that most parents were criticizing ME because it was obviously
MY fault my kid did this because I wasn't teaching him the ground
rules etc. that I shouldn't allow my son to "ruin" other kids time
etc. And another homeschooler brought something to my awareness. That
in these situations there may always be the chance of someone's time
being "ruined" and it was ok to let that be some other kids time! It
didn't have to be my sons time everytime-which it would if I never
let him sit thru these things or play at the park etc. That I would
be spending a lot of my time denying things that MIGHT turn out to be
an inconvenience to others. that these "others" would get over it but
if I continued to deny these things to my son he might NOT get over
it. I might just turn out to appear to him a parent that never let
him do anything-one he would eventually resent. All because I was
embarrassed what other people thought-and for me that is what it all
boiled down to.
I know I ramble-sorry! In short I would say ask yourself WHY it
bothers you and then do something about it. If it is embarrassing to
you (and I am not saying it is) then let it go and say "this is my
kid" (it takes a long time to get over the embarrassment part-at
least for me). If what is bothering you is the behavior of the staff
then I would explain that you are working on her group manners and
ask if they do a homeschooling group there. As for the oppression
feeling..there are others like you and I that get those looks etc.
Comfort yourself in knowing that the greatest inventers, poets,
writers never sat around quietly conforming. I am sure the George
Lucas types were constantly in the "thick of things" and look where
it got them. Remind your librarian that there are libraries because
there are writers of fantasy etc and those writers stepped over the
line of what people considered "acceptable" thoughts etc!
Well, now that I am covered in rotten food I will step down and
dismiss myself
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 3, 2009, at 6:26 PM, Janna Beth Ryan wrote:
your focus to what you can do next time. What can you do to help
prevent such things in the future? What can you do in the moment next
time?
Hindsight is preparation for foresight :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> hindsight is a perfect science.Maybe you're focusing too much on what you should have done. Shift
your focus to what you can do next time. What can you do to help
prevent such things in the future? What can you do in the moment next
time?
Hindsight is preparation for foresight :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betj
I have never conformed. I'm 32 and still blurt! At work people joke (but I'm sure it bothers them) when I know all the answers in training without really paying attention. I finish tests fast and question things. I'm never one to sit quietly (well unless I'm riding in a car and my BF tells me to talk! Then all I can think of is single words! LOL).
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Jet Lakey" <Jetlakey@...>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 04:46:34
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: library & school programs & unschooling
I haven't posted here yet so please excuse the "butt in". How old is
your daughter?
I have been in this situation LOTS of times. My son (now 6) is always
animated and interrupting and I used to cringe when attending these
things. He always did the very thing (and still does to a lesser
degree) that your daughter did. And she may always (though less than
now) do those things because of her personality..she is just so
excited to share that it may come across as "rude" or whatever. Even
if you had been sitting next to her the "disruption" would have still
occured..only this time it would have been YOU telling her to raise
her hand, be quiet, wait your turn etc.
I learned to put my son in the LAST row so I could always get to him
easily. beforehand I would explain the rules of waiting to share
until the end unless the teacher asked something then raise his hand.
I also explained to him that I would put my hand on him (shoulder
leg) to help him remember. I still have to walk over and place my
hand on him.
I will say that I am disappointed in the library staff if they are
not working with you by being kind when you go in, thank goodness we
have a great library staff!
I am sure that if I were on stage I would get tomatoes thrown at me
for the next part!:
It is my job to raise my son. this is who my son is. Yes, I want him
to fit into society by knowing the rules (raising hand etc) but in
honesty, I don't expect him to. I am not sure he will ever "conform"
nor do I want him to. But I am not going to deny him some of these
programs because at this point in his life he can't do what other
people (kids teachers etc) expect of him. If he becomes too much of
an annoyance they will let me know and have him removed..until next
time. And there will be a next time. and next time I will still
explain the rules and hope he remembers a little better. And if the
librarians and other kids groan when we come in..oh well. My son is
happy and not observing their behavior and learning something. There
will always be one kid in a group that is somewhat disruptive and
mine is that kid. I am no longer embarrassed by this. I got over the
fact that most parents were criticizing ME because it was obviously
MY fault my kid did this because I wasn't teaching him the ground
rules etc. that I shouldn't allow my son to "ruin" other kids time
etc. And another homeschooler brought something to my awareness. That
in these situations there may always be the chance of someone's time
being "ruined" and it was ok to let that be some other kids time! It
didn't have to be my sons time everytime-which it would if I never
let him sit thru these things or play at the park etc. That I would
be spending a lot of my time denying things that MIGHT turn out to be
an inconvenience to others. that these "others" would get over it but
if I continued to deny these things to my son he might NOT get over
it. I might just turn out to appear to him a parent that never let
him do anything-one he would eventually resent. All because I was
embarrassed what other people thought-and for me that is what it all
boiled down to.
I know I ramble-sorry! In short I would say ask yourself WHY it
bothers you and then do something about it. If it is embarrassing to
you (and I am not saying it is) then let it go and say "this is my
kid" (it takes a long time to get over the embarrassment part-at
least for me). If what is bothering you is the behavior of the staff
then I would explain that you are working on her group manners and
ask if they do a homeschooling group there. As for the oppression
feeling..there are others like you and I that get those looks etc.
Comfort yourself in knowing that the greatest inventers, poets,
writers never sat around quietly conforming. I am sure the George
Lucas types were constantly in the "thick of things" and look where
it got them. Remind your librarian that there are libraries because
there are writers of fantasy etc and those writers stepped over the
line of what people considered "acceptable" thoughts etc!
Well, now that I am covered in rotten food I will step down and
dismiss myself
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Jet Lakey" <Jetlakey@...>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 04:46:34
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: library & school programs & unschooling
I haven't posted here yet so please excuse the "butt in". How old is
your daughter?
I have been in this situation LOTS of times. My son (now 6) is always
animated and interrupting and I used to cringe when attending these
things. He always did the very thing (and still does to a lesser
degree) that your daughter did. And she may always (though less than
now) do those things because of her personality..she is just so
excited to share that it may come across as "rude" or whatever. Even
if you had been sitting next to her the "disruption" would have still
occured..only this time it would have been YOU telling her to raise
her hand, be quiet, wait your turn etc.
I learned to put my son in the LAST row so I could always get to him
easily. beforehand I would explain the rules of waiting to share
until the end unless the teacher asked something then raise his hand.
I also explained to him that I would put my hand on him (shoulder
leg) to help him remember. I still have to walk over and place my
hand on him.
I will say that I am disappointed in the library staff if they are
not working with you by being kind when you go in, thank goodness we
have a great library staff!
I am sure that if I were on stage I would get tomatoes thrown at me
for the next part!:
It is my job to raise my son. this is who my son is. Yes, I want him
to fit into society by knowing the rules (raising hand etc) but in
honesty, I don't expect him to. I am not sure he will ever "conform"
nor do I want him to. But I am not going to deny him some of these
programs because at this point in his life he can't do what other
people (kids teachers etc) expect of him. If he becomes too much of
an annoyance they will let me know and have him removed..until next
time. And there will be a next time. and next time I will still
explain the rules and hope he remembers a little better. And if the
librarians and other kids groan when we come in..oh well. My son is
happy and not observing their behavior and learning something. There
will always be one kid in a group that is somewhat disruptive and
mine is that kid. I am no longer embarrassed by this. I got over the
fact that most parents were criticizing ME because it was obviously
MY fault my kid did this because I wasn't teaching him the ground
rules etc. that I shouldn't allow my son to "ruin" other kids time
etc. And another homeschooler brought something to my awareness. That
in these situations there may always be the chance of someone's time
being "ruined" and it was ok to let that be some other kids time! It
didn't have to be my sons time everytime-which it would if I never
let him sit thru these things or play at the park etc. That I would
be spending a lot of my time denying things that MIGHT turn out to be
an inconvenience to others. that these "others" would get over it but
if I continued to deny these things to my son he might NOT get over
it. I might just turn out to appear to him a parent that never let
him do anything-one he would eventually resent. All because I was
embarrassed what other people thought-and for me that is what it all
boiled down to.
I know I ramble-sorry! In short I would say ask yourself WHY it
bothers you and then do something about it. If it is embarrassing to
you (and I am not saying it is) then let it go and say "this is my
kid" (it takes a long time to get over the embarrassment part-at
least for me). If what is bothering you is the behavior of the staff
then I would explain that you are working on her group manners and
ask if they do a homeschooling group there. As for the oppression
feeling..there are others like you and I that get those looks etc.
Comfort yourself in knowing that the greatest inventers, poets,
writers never sat around quietly conforming. I am sure the George
Lucas types were constantly in the "thick of things" and look where
it got them. Remind your librarian that there are libraries because
there are writers of fantasy etc and those writers stepped over the
line of what people considered "acceptable" thoughts etc!
Well, now that I am covered in rotten food I will step down and
dismiss myself
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Buxcel
Janna,
You made the best call you could make in that moment, in that situation.
There is only 1 of you *(yes, your husband was there, too, but not right
then when you had to make the call). So, you decided not to be the one to
crush her spirit and you supported her in getting what she really wanted.
I've got 3 busy boys who do not sit still, listen for long periods of time,
etc. Who CARES!!! If one of them wanted to sit in on a presentation at the
library, and the other littler ones needed to be elsewhere, I would have
done the same thing you did. They have just as much right to be there as
anybody in that group. It is *your* library, too, after all! The library
staff should be equipped to handle wigglers and fidgety kids. Especially
when there are 75 of them!
Of course, dad would have been helpful sitting up there beside her, but
again, maybe you both were giving her that little bit of feeling of 'look at
me, I'm such a big kid'. Maybe she wanted that. You were looking in on
her, it's not like you abandoned her there while you browsed around the
library without a thought to her needs.
It's a bummer she ended up crying, but instead of thinking you need to
'solve' the crying, just be there and listen to her hurts. And explain why
the staff may have done what they did, etc, also stating that they probably
could have found a nicer way (if they were rude, who knows?) Sounds like
she was just disappointed she didn't get to share. She probably wouldn't
have been able to share even if you were in there with her, which still
would have ended her in tears. Some experiences just don't end the way we
hope, and that's when we, as parents, can be there with a big hug and warm
lap. We can't always fix things.
I'm sure your daughter isn't the only rowdy girl in the bunch, btw! :) I
was a school teacher before having children, and let me tell you, just
because a kid is in school doesn't mean they all sit quietly and politely
waiting patiently for the teacher to call their name. NO SIR!!! The
library is used to dealing with kids of all kinds, so don't feel that they
really have something against your daughter. That's just your 'i hope
people don't think my kid is a pain' stuff getting in the way! ;)
If, on the other hand, you've witnessed them being less than polite, I'd be
talking to someone about it. If someone at the library doesn't like dealing
with children, then they should find another job! Seriously, though,
perhaps have a conversation with the person/people you feel are giving you a
bad rap. Ask them how you can better accommodate their needs, and then also
explain to them that you do your best to keep your kids quiet, but they are
KIDS, and kids will be kids. It's not like your letting them run like
banshees through the library, right! lol!
I guess I just want to say don't be so hard on yourself. You did your best,
you recognize there may have been another way. Live and Learn! :)
Best,
Karen
--
http://www.thewildtribe.blogspot.com
"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will
meet you there." Rumi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You made the best call you could make in that moment, in that situation.
There is only 1 of you *(yes, your husband was there, too, but not right
then when you had to make the call). So, you decided not to be the one to
crush her spirit and you supported her in getting what she really wanted.
I've got 3 busy boys who do not sit still, listen for long periods of time,
etc. Who CARES!!! If one of them wanted to sit in on a presentation at the
library, and the other littler ones needed to be elsewhere, I would have
done the same thing you did. They have just as much right to be there as
anybody in that group. It is *your* library, too, after all! The library
staff should be equipped to handle wigglers and fidgety kids. Especially
when there are 75 of them!
Of course, dad would have been helpful sitting up there beside her, but
again, maybe you both were giving her that little bit of feeling of 'look at
me, I'm such a big kid'. Maybe she wanted that. You were looking in on
her, it's not like you abandoned her there while you browsed around the
library without a thought to her needs.
It's a bummer she ended up crying, but instead of thinking you need to
'solve' the crying, just be there and listen to her hurts. And explain why
the staff may have done what they did, etc, also stating that they probably
could have found a nicer way (if they were rude, who knows?) Sounds like
she was just disappointed she didn't get to share. She probably wouldn't
have been able to share even if you were in there with her, which still
would have ended her in tears. Some experiences just don't end the way we
hope, and that's when we, as parents, can be there with a big hug and warm
lap. We can't always fix things.
I'm sure your daughter isn't the only rowdy girl in the bunch, btw! :) I
was a school teacher before having children, and let me tell you, just
because a kid is in school doesn't mean they all sit quietly and politely
waiting patiently for the teacher to call their name. NO SIR!!! The
library is used to dealing with kids of all kinds, so don't feel that they
really have something against your daughter. That's just your 'i hope
people don't think my kid is a pain' stuff getting in the way! ;)
If, on the other hand, you've witnessed them being less than polite, I'd be
talking to someone about it. If someone at the library doesn't like dealing
with children, then they should find another job! Seriously, though,
perhaps have a conversation with the person/people you feel are giving you a
bad rap. Ask them how you can better accommodate their needs, and then also
explain to them that you do your best to keep your kids quiet, but they are
KIDS, and kids will be kids. It's not like your letting them run like
banshees through the library, right! lol!
I guess I just want to say don't be so hard on yourself. You did your best,
you recognize there may have been another way. Live and Learn! :)
Best,
Karen
--
http://www.thewildtribe.blogspot.com
"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will
meet you there." Rumi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Janna Beth Ryan
<jannabethryan@...> wrote:
*****************************
This was the case with us, when Ray was little. He was soooooo
outgoing and really didn't have the skills to back that up. He just
couldn't possibly understand all the expectations and nuances and,
because of his personality, wasn't able to stop and watch and work
all that out *before* diving in, socially. So we had lots of
disasters.
Being right at his side to help him negotiate group situations was
what helped him the most. That meant we couldn't go to the kind of
settings where kids were expected to be parted from their parents -
either classes or social events where kids would all "pack" together
resulted in, at best, disappointment. We also couldn't go to adult
social gatherings unless we had a plan for an adult being at Ray's
side all night - which meant less adult social time, for sure.
So we stayed home alot. That gave him the opportunity to mature and
learn some good social skills, like how to participate in
conversations, rather than dominating them. That took time, though,
and a lot of listening to him *first* so he could get those big
attention needs met and *then* be able to listen to someone else.
We'd set up play dates with individual kids now and then, but more
often with individual teens or adults so there wasn't the issue of
Ray steamrolling over another child - that can be a real problem with
extroverted kids, one I've been on both sides of, since Mo's a
staunch introvert.
separate issue, too. Find ways to meet your own need to socialize
*without* your extroverted dd. Find some adult activities - join a
club, take a class (or teach one!), organize a "mom's night out,"
join the local city council, get your hair done twice a week,
Whatever you need to do to get your needs met. Just don't expect to
be able to bring a very outgoing child along with you, unless you
also bring another adult (or teen) expressly to hang out with her.
quality social time one on one than in any kind of group - but most
especially than any kind of class or lecture. Are you worried that
she's not being "exposed" to enough ideas, knowledge, opportunities?
Robin tossed out some "strewing" links, I think - that's a good place
to start looking for ideas. Another place to look for ideas is to
your dd, herself - what sorts of things interest her? Then start
thinking about how Adults with those interests find friends to share
them. So maybe classes aren't a good choice for awhile, what are
other ways people in real life connect with one another? If you can
toss out some examples of your dd's interests, I'm sure some of us
can help you brainstorm.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<jannabethryan@...> wrote:
>> It's very hard. And this is not the first time. I often feellike because there have been very few situations that have "worked"
*****************************
This was the case with us, when Ray was little. He was soooooo
outgoing and really didn't have the skills to back that up. He just
couldn't possibly understand all the expectations and nuances and,
because of his personality, wasn't able to stop and watch and work
all that out *before* diving in, socially. So we had lots of
disasters.
Being right at his side to help him negotiate group situations was
what helped him the most. That meant we couldn't go to the kind of
settings where kids were expected to be parted from their parents -
either classes or social events where kids would all "pack" together
resulted in, at best, disappointment. We also couldn't go to adult
social gatherings unless we had a plan for an adult being at Ray's
side all night - which meant less adult social time, for sure.
So we stayed home alot. That gave him the opportunity to mature and
learn some good social skills, like how to participate in
conversations, rather than dominating them. That took time, though,
and a lot of listening to him *first* so he could get those big
attention needs met and *then* be able to listen to someone else.
We'd set up play dates with individual kids now and then, but more
often with individual teens or adults so there wasn't the issue of
Ray steamrolling over another child - that can be a real problem with
extroverted kids, one I've been on both sides of, since Mo's a
staunch introvert.
>I cannot stand the isolation.That's a separate issue. Its vitally important that you see it as a
separate issue, too. Find ways to meet your own need to socialize
*without* your extroverted dd. Find some adult activities - join a
club, take a class (or teach one!), organize a "mom's night out,"
join the local city council, get your hair done twice a week,
Whatever you need to do to get your needs met. Just don't expect to
be able to bring a very outgoing child along with you, unless you
also bring another adult (or teen) expressly to hang out with her.
>I'm not providing her with enough...Enough what? Social time? Under the circumstances, she'll get more
quality social time one on one than in any kind of group - but most
especially than any kind of class or lecture. Are you worried that
she's not being "exposed" to enough ideas, knowledge, opportunities?
Robin tossed out some "strewing" links, I think - that's a good place
to start looking for ideas. Another place to look for ideas is to
your dd, herself - what sorts of things interest her? Then start
thinking about how Adults with those interests find friends to share
them. So maybe classes aren't a good choice for awhile, what are
other ways people in real life connect with one another? If you can
toss out some examples of your dd's interests, I'm sure some of us
can help you brainstorm.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Jet Lakey" <Jetlakey@...>
wrote:
you'll have to do over and over again. They aren't going to "get it"
after three tries or something ;) Expect to be providing this kind of
support for years to come - in part bc every situation is slightly
different, even if the "rules" are the same. Kids are masters of
picking up differences.
Something else you (generic you) can do (in smaller groups and one-on-
one conversation) is model is how to appologise for interrupting. I
don't mean to stop him, per se! But its normal, in adult
conversation, for someone to interrupt and then say "I'm sorry, what
were you saying?" Its a kind of social graciousness, its just not the
kind we usually think of when we talk about conversational etiquette.
If anything, its *more* polite than waiting for a break in the
conversation - if waiting means ignoring what's being said in favor
of watching like a cat at a mousehole for a "break".
for those options, especially with very social kids. Social
interaction is a big, important part of how they learn. Its a whole
learning style! So the more ways you can find (again, generic "you")
to offer them real life social interactions with people who share
their interests, the more you set them up to learn on their own
terms. A class or group trip may be worse than useless to an
extroverted child if there's no opportunity for real socializing. It
may be no better than staying home if the only conversations they are
able to have are with a parent.
Neither of my kids do well with "programs" so we don't even look at
those. We look for resources outside that "box" if you will. How do
adults learn things? Sometimes in classes, but very frequently from
friends. How do we find and make friends? In addition to being more
helpful in terms of learning about specific topics, its an important
real world skill - something you may find you have to learn right
alongside your child, if you've only ever met people through school,
yourself.
in terms of the problems they represent to thinking about them as
fascinating, complex, vital people.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
wrote:
> I learned to put my son in the LAST row so I could always get tohim
> easily. beforehand I would explain the rules of waiting to sharehand.
> until the end unless the teacher asked something then raise his
> I also explained to him that I would put my hand on him (shoulderAlso keep in mind that, with very outgoing kids, this is something
> leg) to help him remember.
you'll have to do over and over again. They aren't going to "get it"
after three tries or something ;) Expect to be providing this kind of
support for years to come - in part bc every situation is slightly
different, even if the "rules" are the same. Kids are masters of
picking up differences.
Something else you (generic you) can do (in smaller groups and one-on-
one conversation) is model is how to appologise for interrupting. I
don't mean to stop him, per se! But its normal, in adult
conversation, for someone to interrupt and then say "I'm sorry, what
were you saying?" Its a kind of social graciousness, its just not the
kind we usually think of when we talk about conversational etiquette.
If anything, its *more* polite than waiting for a break in the
conversation - if waiting means ignoring what's being said in favor
of watching like a cat at a mousehole for a "break".
> But I am not going to deny him some of theseThere are options besides going or "denying". Its important to look
> programs because at this point in his life he can't do what other
> people (kids teachers etc) expect of him.
for those options, especially with very social kids. Social
interaction is a big, important part of how they learn. Its a whole
learning style! So the more ways you can find (again, generic "you")
to offer them real life social interactions with people who share
their interests, the more you set them up to learn on their own
terms. A class or group trip may be worse than useless to an
extroverted child if there's no opportunity for real socializing. It
may be no better than staying home if the only conversations they are
able to have are with a parent.
Neither of my kids do well with "programs" so we don't even look at
those. We look for resources outside that "box" if you will. How do
adults learn things? Sometimes in classes, but very frequently from
friends. How do we find and make friends? In addition to being more
helpful in terms of learning about specific topics, its an important
real world skill - something you may find you have to learn right
alongside your child, if you've only ever met people through school,
yourself.
>If it is embarrassing toThis is so important! Its really vital to go from thinking about kids
> you (and I am not saying it is) then let it go and say "this is my
> kid"
in terms of the problems they represent to thinking about them as
fascinating, complex, vital people.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Janna Beth Ryan
Thanks, Robin i will check out those links!
Janna
How old are your girls?
you. Maybe take a look at these pages for some ideas of things to do
together:
http://sandradodd. com/nest
http://sandradodd. com/strew/ deblist
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janna
How old are your girls?
>These community offerings seem to be things to do on her own, not with
> It's very hard. And this is not the first time. I often feel like
> because there have been very few situations that have "worked" for
> her in the limited offering we have here (ie. girl scouts, rec
> programs, and others), I feel like "what are we doing?" I'm not
> providing her with enough...etc.
you. Maybe take a look at these pages for some ideas of things to do
together:
http://sandradodd. com/nest
http://sandradodd. com/strew/ deblist
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janna Beth Ryan
Yes. but no situation can ever be perfect no matter how much you prepare for it. but i learn something each time there is a mistake, and i try to correct it.
On Feb 3, 2009, at 6:26 PM, Janna Beth Ryan wrote:
> hindsight is a perfect science.
Maybe you're focusing too much on what you should have done. Shift
your focus to what you can do next time. What can you do to help
prevent such things in the future? What can you do in the moment next
time?
Hindsight is preparation for foresight :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janna Beth Ryan
Thanks, Nance. I appreciate this insight, it is very very helpful. I will say she did say that she was getting "bored" just listening.
Janna
One thing I think your daughter could notice from this experience is
how kids are treated in large groups like this. Or when they are in
school.
It isn't like having Mom or Dad to enjoy your story. The dynamic is
different. You are the audience receiving the information, not the
central actor in the story.
Imagining how it would feel to be in that position all day long might
be an interesting conversation. :)
Along with deciding if the event is worth paying attention to and
learning the role she is expected to play. Worth it to your daughter,
I mean.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janna
One thing I think your daughter could notice from this experience is
how kids are treated in large groups like this. Or when they are in
school.
It isn't like having Mom or Dad to enjoy your story. The dynamic is
different. You are the audience receiving the information, not the
central actor in the story.
Imagining how it would feel to be in that position all day long might
be an interesting conversation. :)
Along with deciding if the event is worth paying attention to and
learning the role she is expected to play. Worth it to your daughter,
I mean.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Karen Buxcel
<thewildtribe@...> wrote:
besides. Its good to care and to wonder: "How can I make this a
kinder moment/day/world?" Obviously, its not possible to make
everyone happy all the time, but there's a wide gulf between
accepting that and not caring. (I don't really think Karen's
saying "I don't give a hoot" but I also wanted to clarify a bit.)
helpful to think in terms of "rights". It clouds thinking - it tends
to lead to self righteousness, which might be valid, but doesn't help
in terms of looking for kinder options for everyone.
Its more helpful, in that regard, to ask what are the needs and wants
(and even wishes) of everyone concerned and to honor those. That's
not to say that all needs, wants and wishes can necessarily be Met in
any given moment! but maintaining a sense of value for those things
really does help in terms of looking for a wider and deeper set of
options.
problem. All the more important to work to set our kids up for
positive experiences whenever we can! More positive experience builds
self confidence. It also builds a sense of mutual respect between
parents and kids. That mutual respect necessarily starts with parents
thinking deeply about how our children respond to and interact with
the world around them - respecting their uniqueness so we can look
for ways to help them Shine! When kids get a chance to shine
regularly, they are more likely to be sanguine (comparitively
speaking) when things don't go as well as everyone would like.
They're more likely to trust that parents have done their best, and
will do their best to help find another solution.
Naturally, we're not always going to be successful in setting our
kids up for positive situations, and there's real value in honoring
our childrens grief over less than successful outcomes. I want to be
sure, though, not to imply parents take the conventional stance that
bad experience "builds character" (and I'm not saying Karen is
implying that, either!) or is otherwise something that children need
regular doses of. As I said above, it is good to be kind.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<thewildtribe@...> wrote:
> Who CARES!!!Its good to be kind - to our kids, to ourselves, and to others,
besides. Its good to care and to wonder: "How can I make this a
kinder moment/day/world?" Obviously, its not possible to make
everyone happy all the time, but there's a wide gulf between
accepting that and not caring. (I don't really think Karen's
saying "I don't give a hoot" but I also wanted to clarify a bit.)
> They have just as much right to be there asFrom a radical unschooling standpoint, I've found that its not really
> anybody in that group.
helpful to think in terms of "rights". It clouds thinking - it tends
to lead to self righteousness, which might be valid, but doesn't help
in terms of looking for kinder options for everyone.
Its more helpful, in that regard, to ask what are the needs and wants
(and even wishes) of everyone concerned and to honor those. That's
not to say that all needs, wants and wishes can necessarily be Met in
any given moment! but maintaining a sense of value for those things
really does help in terms of looking for a wider and deeper set of
options.
> It's a bummer she ended up crying, but instead of thinking you needto
> 'solve' the crying, just be there and listen to her hurts.Its true that parents can neither prevent nor solve every possible
problem. All the more important to work to set our kids up for
positive experiences whenever we can! More positive experience builds
self confidence. It also builds a sense of mutual respect between
parents and kids. That mutual respect necessarily starts with parents
thinking deeply about how our children respond to and interact with
the world around them - respecting their uniqueness so we can look
for ways to help them Shine! When kids get a chance to shine
regularly, they are more likely to be sanguine (comparitively
speaking) when things don't go as well as everyone would like.
They're more likely to trust that parents have done their best, and
will do their best to help find another solution.
Naturally, we're not always going to be successful in setting our
kids up for positive situations, and there's real value in honoring
our childrens grief over less than successful outcomes. I want to be
sure, though, not to imply parents take the conventional stance that
bad experience "builds character" (and I'm not saying Karen is
implying that, either!) or is otherwise something that children need
regular doses of. As I said above, it is good to be kind.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Yes. but no situation can ever be perfect no matter how much you prepare for it. but i learn something each time there is a mistake, and i try to correct it.
-=-=-Absolutely!
Me too. Kelly Lovejoy calls them "learningtakes"
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-=-Absolutely!
Me too. Kelly Lovejoy calls them "learningtakes"
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
A little while ago Sandra Dodd hosted a chat about unschooling life with 3-4 year olds which I missed. Does anyone know if I can access it to listen to/read now??
Thanks :)
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks :)
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
***Does anyone know if I can access it to listen to/read now??***
Here's a link to the transcript for that chat:
http://sandradodd.com/youngchildren
And you can get to her chat page at this address:
http://sandradodd.com/chat
Kelli~
http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/%c2%a0
"There are no ordinary moments." Dan Millman, Peaceful Warrior
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Here's a link to the transcript for that chat:
http://sandradodd.com/youngchildren
And you can get to her chat page at this address:
http://sandradodd.com/chat
Kelli~
http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/%c2%a0
"There are no ordinary moments." Dan Millman, Peaceful Warrior
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
Thanks very much Kelli :)
--- On Thu, 2/5/09, Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...> wrote:
From: Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics]Help accessing Sandra Dodd's recent chat
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 10:09 AM
***Does anyone know if I can access it to listen to/read now??***
Here's a link to the transcript for that chat:
http://sandradodd. com/youngchildre n
And you can get to her chat page at this address:
http://sandradodd. com/chat
Kelli~
http://ourjoyfullif e.blogspot. com/
"There are no ordinary moments." Dan Millman, Peaceful Warrior
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janna Beth Ryan
Karen, thanks for taking the time to share your real experience, i could relate to what you say and appreciate it, that you could put yourself in my shoes so to speak.
much gratitude,
Janna
Re: library & school programs & unschoolin
Posted by: "Karen Buxcel" thewildtribe@... blackhillsdoula
Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:51 am (PST)
Janna,
You made the best call you could make in that moment, in that situation.
There is only 1 of you *(yes, your husband was there, too, but not right
then when you had to make the call). So, you decided not to be the one to
crush her spirit and you supported her in getting what she really wanted.
I've got 3 busy boys who do not sit still, listen for long periods of time,
etc. Who CARES!!! If one of them wanted to sit in on a presentation at the
library, and the other littler ones needed to be elsewhere, I would have
done the same thing you did. They have just as much right to be there as
anybody in that group. It is *your* library, too, after all! The library
staff should be equipped to handle wigglers and fidgety kids. Especially
when there are 75 of them!
Of course, dad would have been helpful sitting up there beside her, but
again, maybe you both were giving her that little bit of feeling of 'look at
me, I'm such a big kid'. Maybe she wanted that. You were looking in on
her, it's not like you abandoned her there while you browsed around the
library without a thought to her needs.
It's a bummer she ended up crying, but instead of thinking you need to
'solve' the crying, just be there and listen to her hurts. And explain why
the staff may have done what they did, etc, also stating that they probably
could have found a nicer way (if they were rude, who knows?) Sounds like
she was just disappointed she didn't get to share. She probably wouldn't
have been able to share even if you were in there with her, which still
would have ended her in tears. Some experiences just don't end the way we
hope, and that's when we, as parents, can be there with a big hug and warm
lap. We can't always fix things.
I'm sure your daughter isn't the only rowdy girl in the bunch, btw! :) I
was a school teacher before having children, and let me tell you, just
because a kid is in school doesn't mean they all sit quietly and politely
waiting patiently for the teacher to call their name. NO SIR!!! The
library is used to dealing with kids of all kinds, so don't feel that they
really have something against your daughter. That's just your 'i hope
people don't think my kid is a pain' stuff getting in the way! ;)
If, on the other hand, you've witnessed them being less than polite, I'd be
talking to someone about it. If someone at the library doesn't like dealing
with children, then they should find another job! Seriously, though,
perhaps have a conversation with the person/people you feel are giving you a
bad rap. Ask them how you can better accommodate their needs, and then also
explain to them that you do your best to keep your kids quiet, but they are
KIDS, and kids will be kids. It's not like your letting them run like
banshees through the library, right! lol!
I guess I just want to say don't be so hard on yourself. You did your best,
you recognize there may have been another way. Live and Learn! :)
Best,
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
much gratitude,
Janna
Re: library & school programs & unschoolin
Posted by: "Karen Buxcel" thewildtribe@... blackhillsdoula
Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:51 am (PST)
Janna,
You made the best call you could make in that moment, in that situation.
There is only 1 of you *(yes, your husband was there, too, but not right
then when you had to make the call). So, you decided not to be the one to
crush her spirit and you supported her in getting what she really wanted.
I've got 3 busy boys who do not sit still, listen for long periods of time,
etc. Who CARES!!! If one of them wanted to sit in on a presentation at the
library, and the other littler ones needed to be elsewhere, I would have
done the same thing you did. They have just as much right to be there as
anybody in that group. It is *your* library, too, after all! The library
staff should be equipped to handle wigglers and fidgety kids. Especially
when there are 75 of them!
Of course, dad would have been helpful sitting up there beside her, but
again, maybe you both were giving her that little bit of feeling of 'look at
me, I'm such a big kid'. Maybe she wanted that. You were looking in on
her, it's not like you abandoned her there while you browsed around the
library without a thought to her needs.
It's a bummer she ended up crying, but instead of thinking you need to
'solve' the crying, just be there and listen to her hurts. And explain why
the staff may have done what they did, etc, also stating that they probably
could have found a nicer way (if they were rude, who knows?) Sounds like
she was just disappointed she didn't get to share. She probably wouldn't
have been able to share even if you were in there with her, which still
would have ended her in tears. Some experiences just don't end the way we
hope, and that's when we, as parents, can be there with a big hug and warm
lap. We can't always fix things.
I'm sure your daughter isn't the only rowdy girl in the bunch, btw! :) I
was a school teacher before having children, and let me tell you, just
because a kid is in school doesn't mean they all sit quietly and politely
waiting patiently for the teacher to call their name. NO SIR!!! The
library is used to dealing with kids of all kinds, so don't feel that they
really have something against your daughter. That's just your 'i hope
people don't think my kid is a pain' stuff getting in the way! ;)
If, on the other hand, you've witnessed them being less than polite, I'd be
talking to someone about it. If someone at the library doesn't like dealing
with children, then they should find another job! Seriously, though,
perhaps have a conversation with the person/people you feel are giving you a
bad rap. Ask them how you can better accommodate their needs, and then also
explain to them that you do your best to keep your kids quiet, but they are
KIDS, and kids will be kids. It's not like your letting them run like
banshees through the library, right! lol!
I guess I just want to say don't be so hard on yourself. You did your best,
you recognize there may have been another way. Live and Learn! :)
Best,
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janna Beth Ryan
Thanks Jet, I feel relieved now. Your understanding and your experience I can truly relate to. My daughter is also 6 by the way.
Janna
Re: library & school programs & unschooling
Posted by: "Jet Lakey" Jetlakey@... wiccankungfu
Wed Feb 4, 2009 6:13 am (PST)
I haven't posted here yet so please excuse the "butt in". How old is
your daughter?
I have been in this situation LOTS of times. My son (now 6) is always
animated and interrupting and I used to cringe when attending these
things. He always did the very thing (and still does to a lesser
degree) that your daughter did. And she may always (though less than
now) do those things because of her personality. .she is just so
excited to share that it may come across as "rude" or whatever. Even
if you had been sitting next to her the "disruption" would have still
occured..only this time it would have been YOU telling her to raise
her hand, be quiet, wait your turn etc.
I learned to put my son in the LAST row so I could always get to him
easily. beforehand I would explain the rules of waiting to share
until the end unless the teacher asked something then raise his hand.
I also explained to him that I would put my hand on him (shoulder
leg) to help him remember. I still have to walk over and place my
hand on him.
I will say that I am disappointed in the library staff if they are
not working with you by being kind when you go in, thank goodness we
have a great library staff!
I am sure that if I were on stage I would get tomatoes thrown at me
for the next part!:
It is my job to raise my son. this is who my son is. Yes, I want him
to fit into society by knowing the rules (raising hand etc) but in
honesty, I don't expect him to. I am not sure he will ever "conform"
nor do I want him to. But I am not going to deny him some of these
programs because at this point in his life he can't do what other
people (kids teachers etc) expect of him. If he becomes too much of
an annoyance they will let me know and have him removed..until next
time. And there will be a next time. and next time I will still
explain the rules and hope he remembers a little better. And if the
librarians and other kids groan when we come in..oh well. My son is
happy and not observing their behavior and learning something. There
will always be one kid in a group that is somewhat disruptive and
mine is that kid. I am no longer embarrassed by this. I got over the
fact that most parents were criticizing ME because it was obviously
MY fault my kid did this because I wasn't teaching him the ground
rules etc. that I shouldn't allow my son to "ruin" other kids time
etc. And another homeschooler brought something to my awareness. That
in these situations there may always be the chance of someone's time
being "ruined" and it was ok to let that be some other kids time! It
didn't have to be my sons time everytime-which it would if I never
let him sit thru these things or play at the park etc. That I would
be spending a lot of my time denying things that MIGHT turn out to be
an inconvenience to others. that these "others" would get over it but
if I continued to deny these things to my son he might NOT get over
it. I might just turn out to appear to him a parent that never let
him do anything-one he would eventually resent. All because I was
embarrassed what other people thought-and for me that is what it all
boiled down to.
I know I ramble-sorry! In short I would say ask yourself WHY it
bothers you and then do something about it. If it is embarrassing to
you (and I am not saying it is) then let it go and say "this is my
kid" (it takes a long time to get over the embarrassment part-at
least for me). If what is bothering you is the behavior of the staff
then I would explain that you are working on her group manners and
ask if they do a homeschooling group there. As for the oppression
feeling..there are others like you and I that get those looks etc.
Comfort yourself in knowing that the greatest inventers, poets,
writers never sat around quietly conforming. I am sure the George
Lucas types were constantly in the "thick of things" and look where
it got them. Remind your librarian that there are libraries because
there are writers of fantasy etc and those writers stepped over the
line of what people considered "acceptable" thoughts etc!
Well, now that I am covered in rotten food I will step down and
dismiss myself
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janna
Re: library & school programs & unschooling
Posted by: "Jet Lakey" Jetlakey@... wiccankungfu
Wed Feb 4, 2009 6:13 am (PST)
I haven't posted here yet so please excuse the "butt in". How old is
your daughter?
I have been in this situation LOTS of times. My son (now 6) is always
animated and interrupting and I used to cringe when attending these
things. He always did the very thing (and still does to a lesser
degree) that your daughter did. And she may always (though less than
now) do those things because of her personality. .she is just so
excited to share that it may come across as "rude" or whatever. Even
if you had been sitting next to her the "disruption" would have still
occured..only this time it would have been YOU telling her to raise
her hand, be quiet, wait your turn etc.
I learned to put my son in the LAST row so I could always get to him
easily. beforehand I would explain the rules of waiting to share
until the end unless the teacher asked something then raise his hand.
I also explained to him that I would put my hand on him (shoulder
leg) to help him remember. I still have to walk over and place my
hand on him.
I will say that I am disappointed in the library staff if they are
not working with you by being kind when you go in, thank goodness we
have a great library staff!
I am sure that if I were on stage I would get tomatoes thrown at me
for the next part!:
It is my job to raise my son. this is who my son is. Yes, I want him
to fit into society by knowing the rules (raising hand etc) but in
honesty, I don't expect him to. I am not sure he will ever "conform"
nor do I want him to. But I am not going to deny him some of these
programs because at this point in his life he can't do what other
people (kids teachers etc) expect of him. If he becomes too much of
an annoyance they will let me know and have him removed..until next
time. And there will be a next time. and next time I will still
explain the rules and hope he remembers a little better. And if the
librarians and other kids groan when we come in..oh well. My son is
happy and not observing their behavior and learning something. There
will always be one kid in a group that is somewhat disruptive and
mine is that kid. I am no longer embarrassed by this. I got over the
fact that most parents were criticizing ME because it was obviously
MY fault my kid did this because I wasn't teaching him the ground
rules etc. that I shouldn't allow my son to "ruin" other kids time
etc. And another homeschooler brought something to my awareness. That
in these situations there may always be the chance of someone's time
being "ruined" and it was ok to let that be some other kids time! It
didn't have to be my sons time everytime-which it would if I never
let him sit thru these things or play at the park etc. That I would
be spending a lot of my time denying things that MIGHT turn out to be
an inconvenience to others. that these "others" would get over it but
if I continued to deny these things to my son he might NOT get over
it. I might just turn out to appear to him a parent that never let
him do anything-one he would eventually resent. All because I was
embarrassed what other people thought-and for me that is what it all
boiled down to.
I know I ramble-sorry! In short I would say ask yourself WHY it
bothers you and then do something about it. If it is embarrassing to
you (and I am not saying it is) then let it go and say "this is my
kid" (it takes a long time to get over the embarrassment part-at
least for me). If what is bothering you is the behavior of the staff
then I would explain that you are working on her group manners and
ask if they do a homeschooling group there. As for the oppression
feeling..there are others like you and I that get those looks etc.
Comfort yourself in knowing that the greatest inventers, poets,
writers never sat around quietly conforming. I am sure the George
Lucas types were constantly in the "thick of things" and look where
it got them. Remind your librarian that there are libraries because
there are writers of fantasy etc and those writers stepped over the
line of what people considered "acceptable" thoughts etc!
Well, now that I am covered in rotten food I will step down and
dismiss myself
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janna Beth Ryan
Thanks for sharing. I realized that when you shared my step-daughter was the same way...I have 2 daughters who have similar "ways of being" in the world. My daughter also sings all day wherever we are. Not something you see everyday and I love it..
Janna
Re: library & school programs & unschooling
Posted by: "Betj" bkind28@... bkind28
Wed Feb 4, 2009 6:17 am (PST)
I have never conformed. I'm 32 and still blurt! At work people joke (but I'm sure it bothers them) when I know all the answers in training without really paying attention. I finish tests fast and question things. I'm never one to sit quietly (well unless I'm riding in a car and my BF tells me to talk! Then all I can think of is single words! LOL).
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janna
Re: library & school programs & unschooling
Posted by: "Betj" bkind28@... bkind28
Wed Feb 4, 2009 6:17 am (PST)
I have never conformed. I'm 32 and still blurt! At work people joke (but I'm sure it bothers them) when I know all the answers in training without really paying attention. I finish tests fast and question things. I'm never one to sit quietly (well unless I'm riding in a car and my BF tells me to talk! Then all I can think of is single words! LOL).
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janna Beth Ryan
Yes, I've figured out classes are not an option for my daughter right now. However, this was not something i saw as avoidable at the time (in the library) for several reasons I stated earlier.
the isolation for me is separate and i deal with it the best way i can in the constraints within which i live, but it still exists for my daughter too, she is a very social person and energized by being with other children. i try to arrange play for her as much as possible, but it is never enough. she flourished in our old support group and i hope we can someday find the same here or move somewhere where she has that again. It was ideal.
I think robins list is helpful and will be referring to it.
thanks for your input and experience, Meredith
Re: library & school programs & unschooling
Posted by: "Meredith" meredith@... plaidpanties666
Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:16 am (PST)
--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, Janna Beth Ryan
<jannabethryan@ ...> wrote:
************ ********* ********
This was the case with us, when Ray was little. He was soooooo
outgoing and really didn't have the skills to back that up. He just
couldn't possibly understand all the expectations and nuances and,
because of his personality, wasn't able to stop and watch and work
all that out *before* diving in, socially. So we had lots of
disasters.
Being right at his side to help him negotiate group situations was
what helped him the most. That meant we couldn't go to the kind of
settings where kids were expected to be parted from their parents -
either classes or social events where kids would all "pack" together
resulted in, at best, disappointment. We also couldn't go to adult
social gatherings unless we had a plan for an adult being at Ray's
side all night - which meant less adult social time, for sure.
So we stayed home alot. That gave him the opportunity to mature and
learn some good social skills, like how to participate in
conversations, rather than dominating them. That took time, though,
and a lot of listening to him *first* so he could get those big
attention needs met and *then* be able to listen to someone else.
We'd set up play dates with individual kids now and then, but more
often with individual teens or adults so there wasn't the issue of
Ray steamrolling over another child - that can be a real problem with
extroverted kids, one I've been on both sides of, since Mo's a
staunch introvert.
separate issue, too. Find ways to meet your own need to socialize
*without* your extroverted dd. Find some adult activities - join a
club, take a class (or teach one!), organize a "mom's night out,"
join the local city council, get your hair done twice a week,
Whatever you need to do to get your needs met. Just don't expect to
be able to bring a very outgoing child along with you, unless you
also bring another adult (or teen) expressly to hang out with her.
quality social time one on one than in any kind of group - but most
especially than any kind of class or lecture. Are you worried that
she's not being "exposed" to enough ideas, knowledge, opportunities?
Robin tossed out some "strewing" links, I think - that's a good place
to start looking for ideas. Another place to look for ideas is to
your dd, herself - what sorts of things interest her? Then start
thinking about how Adults with those interests find friends to share
them. So maybe classes aren't a good choice for awhile, what are
other ways people in real life connect with one another? If you can
toss out some examples of your dd's interests, I'm sure some of us
can help you brainstorm.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the isolation for me is separate and i deal with it the best way i can in the constraints within which i live, but it still exists for my daughter too, she is a very social person and energized by being with other children. i try to arrange play for her as much as possible, but it is never enough. she flourished in our old support group and i hope we can someday find the same here or move somewhere where she has that again. It was ideal.
I think robins list is helpful and will be referring to it.
thanks for your input and experience, Meredith
Re: library & school programs & unschooling
Posted by: "Meredith" meredith@... plaidpanties666
Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:16 am (PST)
--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, Janna Beth Ryan
<jannabethryan@ ...> wrote:
>> It's very hard. And this is not the first time. I often feellike because there have been very few situations that have "worked"
************ ********* ********
This was the case with us, when Ray was little. He was soooooo
outgoing and really didn't have the skills to back that up. He just
couldn't possibly understand all the expectations and nuances and,
because of his personality, wasn't able to stop and watch and work
all that out *before* diving in, socially. So we had lots of
disasters.
Being right at his side to help him negotiate group situations was
what helped him the most. That meant we couldn't go to the kind of
settings where kids were expected to be parted from their parents -
either classes or social events where kids would all "pack" together
resulted in, at best, disappointment. We also couldn't go to adult
social gatherings unless we had a plan for an adult being at Ray's
side all night - which meant less adult social time, for sure.
So we stayed home alot. That gave him the opportunity to mature and
learn some good social skills, like how to participate in
conversations, rather than dominating them. That took time, though,
and a lot of listening to him *first* so he could get those big
attention needs met and *then* be able to listen to someone else.
We'd set up play dates with individual kids now and then, but more
often with individual teens or adults so there wasn't the issue of
Ray steamrolling over another child - that can be a real problem with
extroverted kids, one I've been on both sides of, since Mo's a
staunch introvert.
>I cannot stand the isolation.That's a separate issue. Its vitally important that you see it as a
separate issue, too. Find ways to meet your own need to socialize
*without* your extroverted dd. Find some adult activities - join a
club, take a class (or teach one!), organize a "mom's night out,"
join the local city council, get your hair done twice a week,
Whatever you need to do to get your needs met. Just don't expect to
be able to bring a very outgoing child along with you, unless you
also bring another adult (or teen) expressly to hang out with her.
>I'm not providing her with enough...Enough what? Social time? Under the circumstances, she'll get more
quality social time one on one than in any kind of group - but most
especially than any kind of class or lecture. Are you worried that
she's not being "exposed" to enough ideas, knowledge, opportunities?
Robin tossed out some "strewing" links, I think - that's a good place
to start looking for ideas. Another place to look for ideas is to
your dd, herself - what sorts of things interest her? Then start
thinking about how Adults with those interests find friends to share
them. So maybe classes aren't a good choice for awhile, what are
other ways people in real life connect with one another? If you can
toss out some examples of your dd's interests, I'm sure some of us
can help you brainstorm.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mimimomma
Yes, I identify with you:) I just sent you an email!
Mimi
Janna Beth Ryan <jannabethryan@...> wrote:
Caren, i appreciate your feedback.
i really had no idea that she was going to tell her story about the turtle or any of that. I wasn't sure what she was going to do. she appeared to be fine and quiet at the beginning, but she isn't used to being in those types of settings, obviously and though i know it was a mistake leaving her there without us, hindsight is a perfect science. And my husband made the last call, and i was looking after my other highly active child. we explained things to her afterward, the expectations of situations like that. We are just so terribly isolated here, there are not any unschoolers here and when we go out and a situation like that is presented i'm not surprised she jumped at the prospect of being part of a group of kids coupled with the topic being interesting to her. She is a very outgoing child. Either way, she would have been hurt and angry if i took her out at the beginning (because she really wanted to go) or with the result we had
(having participated). It's very hard. And this is not the first time. I often feel like because there have been very few situations that have "worked" for her in the limited offering we have here (ie. girl scouts, rec programs, and others), I feel like "what are we doing?" I'm not providing her with enough...etc. I don't know how to make this work for her. I cannot stand the isolation. Does anyone identify with me at all?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mimi
Janna Beth Ryan <jannabethryan@...> wrote:
Caren, i appreciate your feedback.
i really had no idea that she was going to tell her story about the turtle or any of that. I wasn't sure what she was going to do. she appeared to be fine and quiet at the beginning, but she isn't used to being in those types of settings, obviously and though i know it was a mistake leaving her there without us, hindsight is a perfect science. And my husband made the last call, and i was looking after my other highly active child. we explained things to her afterward, the expectations of situations like that. We are just so terribly isolated here, there are not any unschoolers here and when we go out and a situation like that is presented i'm not surprised she jumped at the prospect of being part of a group of kids coupled with the topic being interesting to her. She is a very outgoing child. Either way, she would have been hurt and angry if i took her out at the beginning (because she really wanted to go) or with the result we had
(having participated). It's very hard. And this is not the first time. I often feel like because there have been very few situations that have "worked" for her in the limited offering we have here (ie. girl scouts, rec programs, and others), I feel like "what are we doing?" I'm not providing her with enough...etc. I don't know how to make this work for her. I cannot stand the isolation. Does anyone identify with me at all?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gwen
My husband is part Laguna Pueblo Indian (New Mexico). Before the first time I met my husband's extended family, my husband explained the customs and "different" things I'd see. He wasn't trying to play "teacher", he wanted to me to be prepared so that my visit would be pleasant.
I had a wonderful visit with his family and after we left I asked lots of questions. Each time I went back, I had a better understanding of what was going on and his family was very accepting of me.
I keep that experience in mind when I introduce Megan to new things. What are the customs? What will most of the other people be doing? Most schooled kids are trained very early how to sit quietly in a group. Megan started taking Taekwondo lessons right before her seventh birthday. Remembering to raise her hand to talk took a week or so because it was new for her.
Gwen
I had a wonderful visit with his family and after we left I asked lots of questions. Each time I went back, I had a better understanding of what was going on and his family was very accepting of me.
I keep that experience in mind when I introduce Megan to new things. What are the customs? What will most of the other people be doing? Most schooled kids are trained very early how to sit quietly in a group. Megan started taking Taekwondo lessons right before her seventh birthday. Remembering to raise her hand to talk took a week or so because it was new for her.
Gwen
--- On Tue, 2/3/09, Janna Beth Ryan <jannabethryan@...> wrote:
Caren, i appreciate your feedback.
i really had no idea that she was going to tell her story about the turtle or
any of that. I wasn't sure what she was going to do. she appeared to be
fine and quiet at the beginning, but she isn't used to being in those types
of settings, obviously and though i know it was a mistake leaving her there
without us, hindsight is a perfect science. And my husband made the last call,
and i was looking after my other highly active child. we explained things to
her afterward, the expectations of situations like that. We are just so
terribly isolated here, there are not any unschoolers here and when we go out
and a situation like that is presented i'm not surprised she jumped at the
prospect of being part of a group of kids coupled with the topic being
interesting to her. She is a very outgoing child. Either way, she would have
been hurt and angry if i took her out at the beginning (because she really
wanted to go) or with the result we had
(having participated). It's very hard. And this is not the first time.
I often feel like because there have been very few situations that have
"worked" for her in the limited offering we have here (ie. girl
scouts, rec programs, and others), I feel like "what are we doing?"
I'm not providing her with enough...etc. I don't know how to make this
work for her. I cannot stand the isolation. Does anyone identify with me at
all?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
Gwen I really like this explanation. It makes a really great analogy, our
children are typical strangers to different cultures, even cultures that we
are familiar with. It is wonderful to remember that.
thanks
Faith
children are typical strangers to different cultures, even cultures that we
are familiar with. It is wonderful to remember that.
thanks
Faith
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 4:22 AM, Gwen <willow_selene@...> wrote:
> My husband is part Laguna Pueblo Indian (New Mexico). Before the first
> time I met my husband's extended family, my husband explained the customs
> and "different" things I'd see. He wasn't trying to play "teacher", he
> wanted to me to be prepared so that my visit would be pleasant.
>
> I had a wonderful visit with his family and after we left I asked lots of
> questions. Each time I went back, I had a better understanding of what was
> going on and his family was very accepting of me.
>
> I keep that experience in mind when I introduce Megan to new things. What
> are the customs? What will most of the other people be doing? Most
> schooled kids are trained very early how to sit quietly in a group. Megan
> started taking Taekwondo lessons right before her seventh birthday.
> Remembering to raise her hand to talk took a week or so because it was new
> for her.
>
> Gwen
>
>
>
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
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Janna Beth Ryan
I agree, Gwen. GREAT analogy.
Janna
Re: library & school programs & unschoolin
Posted by: "Faith Void" littlemsvoid@... bloodyknucklesclub
Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:52 am (PST)
Gwen I really like this explanation. It makes a really great analogy, our
children are typical strangers to different cultures, even cultures that we
are familiar with. It is wonderful to remember that.
thanks
Faith
Janna
Re: library & school programs & unschoolin
Posted by: "Faith Void" littlemsvoid@... bloodyknucklesclub
Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:52 am (PST)
Gwen I really like this explanation. It makes a really great analogy, our
children are typical strangers to different cultures, even cultures that we
are familiar with. It is wonderful to remember that.
thanks
Faith
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 4:22 AM, Gwen <willow_selene@ yahoo.com> wrote:
> My husband is part Laguna Pueblo Indian (New Mexico). Before the first
> time I met my husband's extended family, my husband explained the customs
> and "different" things I'd see. He wasn't trying to play "teacher", he
> wanted to me to be prepared so that my visit would be pleasant.
>
> I had a wonderful visit with his family and after we left I asked lots of
> questions. Each time I went back, I had a better understanding of what was
> going on and his family was very accepting of me.
>
> I keep that experience in mind when I introduce Megan to new things. What
> are the customs? What will most of the other people be doing? Most
> schooled kids are trained very early how to sit quietly in a group. Megan
> started taking Taekwondo lessons right before her seventh birthday.
> Remembering to raise her hand to talk took a week or so because it was new
> for her.
>
> Gwen
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