hmschleidt

I just got home from our Local YMCA. My 8 yo plays basketball, by
his choice, and he loves to play (although he is not very good, but
he doesn't know that!). My son was rotated out of the game 4 times,
while the better children played the entire game. That doesn't
bother me too much because it didn't bother him, but it is not in the
spirit of the YMCA guidelines. My husband and I support him and
watch, but we don't scream and yell and try and coach him from the
sidelines.

Throughout the last three weeks of games I have been so disgusted
with the yelling, screaming, and tormenting of the kids by their
parents. One man today had the nerve to tell his son that when he
was telling him something (the kid was in the middle of the game on
the court) that he had better listen to him. There is no team spirit
in the area - many parents offer $1 per basket that the kids make.
they usually don't encourage the other kids on the team, they just
scream for their individual child to "get the ball and shoot".

My point in bringing this up is to ask whether it is ok for my son to
be in this environment. I am not a "sheltering" person by nature,
but at 8 and 9 yo these kids should be allowed to just play the game
and not feel the stress of competition. They don't even keep score
in this league until they are 10. This is what he wants to do, but
at what point, if any, should I allow my child to be subjected to
this environment when I am trying to promote a different type of
environment at home?

Any advice how to handle the games and the parents? I had to remove
myself today for a few minutes so that I wouldn't say something out
of line. I said something to one parent today (hopefully, nicely)
because he was beating up his child verbally for missing shots. I
checked into other programs but didn't like the demands of 2
practices a week plus games. The only homeschool league I know of is
an hour away and I can't commit to that at this time.

I know a little bit of competition can have its place in society, but
usually the homeschoolers I hang out with focus on having fun and
learning. Any thoughts?

Betj

Is there a church league? I was unhappy with our neighborhood rec center soccer and t-ball (parents yelling at 4-5 year olds!) My ds started playing at a church and the difference is amazing. At the start of the season he was 12 but placed on high school team and the older kids were great. They took him under their wings and helped him learn! And when parents misbehave they kick them out. :)
Beth
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "hmschleidt" <hmschleidt@...>

Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:14:53
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Disgusted with sports programs


I just got home from our Local YMCA. My 8 yo plays basketball, by
his choice, and he loves to play (although he is not very good, but
he doesn't know that!). My son was rotated out of the game 4 times,
while the better children played the entire game. That doesn't
bother me too much because it didn't bother him, but it is not in the
spirit of the YMCA guidelines. My husband and I support him and
watch, but we don't scream and yell and try and coach him from the
sidelines.

Throughout the last three weeks of games I have been so disgusted
with the yelling, screaming, and tormenting of the kids by their
parents. One man today had the nerve to tell his son that when he
was telling him something (the kid was in the middle of the game on
the court) that he had better listen to him. There is no team spirit
in the area - many parents offer $1 per basket that the kids make.
they usually don't encourage the other kids on the team, they just
scream for their individual child to "get the ball and shoot".

My point in bringing this up is to ask whether it is ok for my son to
be in this environment. I am not a "sheltering" person by nature,
but at 8 and 9 yo these kids should be allowed to just play the game
and not feel the stress of competition. They don't even keep score
in this league until they are 10. This is what he wants to do, but
at what point, if any, should I allow my child to be subjected to
this environment when I am trying to promote a different type of
environment at home?

Any advice how to handle the games and the parents? I had to remove
myself today for a few minutes so that I wouldn't say something out
of line. I said something to one parent today (hopefully, nicely)
because he was beating up his child verbally for missing shots. I
checked into other programs but didn't like the demands of 2
practices a week plus games. The only homeschool league I know of is
an hour away and I can't commit to that at this time.

I know a little bit of competition can have its place in society, but
usually the homeschoolers I hang out with focus on having fun and
learning. Any thoughts?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hbmccarty

You could start your own basketball group. It doesn't have to be a
league. Our home school learning center has lots of informal fun sports
programs of different types led by parents- some are just playing the
sports, some are more skills and drills. My daughter was interested in
playing basketball and none of the local programs appealed to her - so I
asked if anyone would offer a girls basketball program(she prefers this
to co-ed), and a mom said yes. She led it with her teenaged daughter
once, and I am helping her this time(and learning!)

My son has been in a Rotary league for years on a team coached by home
school parents. The rest of the league is school kids. They have lots of
fun, it is pretty mellow. He played basketball at the Y one winter and
had a similar experience to that you describe.

Heather (in NY)

> The only homeschool league I know of is
> an hour away and I can't commit to that at this time.
>
> I know a little bit of competition can have its place in society, but
> usually the homeschoolers I hang out with focus on having fun and
> learning. Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
> ___

Sylvia Toyama

My point in bringing this up is to ask whether it is ok for my son to
be in this environment. I am not a "sheltering" person by nature,
but at 8 and 9 yo these kids should be allowed to just play the game
and not feel the stress of competition. They don't even keep score
in this league until they are 10. This is what he wants to do, but
at what point, if any, should I allow my child to be subjected to
this environment when I am trying to promote a different type of
environment at home?

******
I think this all depends on your child and what he wants from a sport.
For you, that means being really clear that it's about your child, not
about what you see or get from it. Much like with TV shows or video
game choices, sometimes we're not comfortable with what our kids enjoy
exploring.

Dan, our youngest (8 today!), is a born athlete. He's played soccer
for three seasons (currently on winter break) and really enjoys it.
He's a pretty good player, and steadily improving. He also bikes in
BMX, where he's quite good, especially for a kid who competes maybe
twice a month, and doesn't really practice between races. Dan also
runs like the wind -- it's what he was born to do. No track sports
yet, but he's young for that still.

Dan is a true sportsman, and very competitive. Not in an ugly, win-at-
all-costs way, tho. Dan understands that if a competition has a
winner, then there are also folks who don't win. Some days you win,
and some you lose. Dan truly gets that the point is to do your very
best, to work with your team and take your lumps. And this seems to be
something he just innately knew.

My dh and I aren't sports fans, or athletes. We're both bothered by the
screaming parents in the stands. We've never been ones to
scream 'kick' or 'shoot' or 'run' during a game. I've coached this
season, so I do sometimes give instructions from the sidelines, but not
as a Mom. I've asked Dan if he's prefer we be the screaming supportive
types, and thankfully he'd rather we just watched without the all the
drama.

He's kind of bothered by the screaming parents, but understands that
some people are just that way. He also knows some kids play sports only
because their parents insist on it (true for too many kids) and that
their parents are often the worst screamers. Last season, he commented
to me "I think AJ really doesn't want to play, but since his Dad is
Coach, he has to." We talked a bit about that, and Dan knows that all
the choice are his, not ours.

Even tho the parents' behavior sometimes bothers me, Dan really enjoys
sports and the ugly parts don't taint it for him, so we support him in
his choice. For me it's about trusting that Dan will let us know if
the overall environment of an activity is no longer working for him.

Sylvia

Heather & Markus Schleidt

I think with my 8 yo, trusting him to tell me if this situation isn't working is more difficult that my 5 yo. My 8 yo is not athletic and not aggressive, but he is a people pleaser, so he doesn't voice his opinion. I have talked to him several times (after reading many posts on this message board) that it is completely up to him if he wants to play basketball or ANY sport for that matter. Before the season, I did explain to him that we really didn't have the money for him to sign up for this season, but if he wanted to play that daddy would make it happen. I am afraid that maybe I should have kept my mouth shut because "maybe" he feels he has to keep playing because of the money. My 5 yo, on the other hand, is like your son - a born athlete. Everything he plays and touches turns into gold without any effort. He plays sports because he LOVES them.

I really liked the suggestion from another mom of starting my own league, but with 4 little ones, I am not sure I have the energy. Maybe I could just get other boys together for some pick-up games for my oldest. That wouldn't be enough for my 5 yo.

I just don't want his image of sports to be tainted by something, although it may not really be bothering him, maybe just me. I hadn't asked him or brought it up because if he hadn't noticed it before I didn't want to bring it to his attention. Should I? Before being part of this message board, I would never have thought about these issues and would have demanded that he "stick it out" because he had committed to it and we had paid money for it. Now, I am trying to make sure I help him and give him guidance, while continuing to trust that he will let me know how I can help him. Wow, is that hard!!!

Heather






To: [email protected]: sylgt04@...: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:49:24 +0000Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Disgusted with sports programs



My point in bringing this up is to ask whether it is ok for my son tobe in this environment. I am not a "sheltering" person by nature,but at 8 and 9 yo these kids should be allowed to just play the gameand not feel the stress of competition. They don't even keep scorein this league until they are 10. This is what he wants to do, butat what point, if any, should I allow my child to be subjected tothis environment when I am trying to promote a different type ofenvironment at home?******I think this all depends on your child and what he wants from a sport. For you, that means being really clear that it's about your child, not about what you see or get from it. Much like with TV shows or video game choices, sometimes we're not comfortable with what our kids enjoy exploring. Dan, our youngest (8 today!), is a born athlete. He's played soccer for three seasons (currently on winter break) and really enjoys it. He's a pretty good player, and steadily improving. He also bikes in BMX, where he's quite good, especially for a kid who competes maybe twice a month, and doesn't really practice between races. Dan also runs like the wind -- it's what he was born to do. No track sports yet, but he's young for that still. Dan is a true sportsman, and very competitive. Not in an ugly, win-at-all-costs way, tho. Dan understands that if a competition has a winner, then there are also folks who don't win. Some days you win, and some you lose. Dan truly gets that the point is to do your very best, to work with your team and take your lumps. And this seems to be something he just innately knew. My dh and I aren't sports fans, or athletes. We're both bothered by the screaming parents in the stands. We've never been ones to scream 'kick' or 'shoot' or 'run' during a game. I've coached this season, so I do sometimes give instructions from the sidelines, but not as a Mom. I've asked Dan if he's prefer we be the screaming supportive types, and thankfully he'd rather we just watched without the all the drama. He's kind of bothered by the screaming parents, but understands that some people are just that way. He also knows some kids play sports only because their parents insist on it (true for too many kids) and that their parents are often the worst screamers. Last season, he commented to me "I think AJ really doesn't want to play, but since his Dad is Coach, he has to." We talked a bit about that, and Dan knows that all the choice are his, not ours. Even tho the parents' behavior sometimes bothers me, Dan really enjoys sports and the ugly parts don't taint it for him, so we support him in his choice. For me it's about trusting that Dan will let us know if the overall environment of an activity is no longer working for him. Sylvia





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jan 24, 2009, at 8:08 PM, Heather & Markus Schleidt wrote:

> I just don't want his image of sports to be tainted by something,
> although it may not really be bothering him, maybe just me.

Does he even hear the parents on the sidelines? My soccer-playing
daughter doesn't hear it at all. Also, kids are usually pretty clear
and matter-of-fact about the better players getting more playing time
- they figure it makes sense since it is better for the team.

-pam

swissarmy_wife

My oldest, 10, is involved with a few different sports. There are
very few homeschoolers here. He plays on the rec department teams.
He's played soccer for a few years now and at first the verbal
assaults coming from the parents used to really bother me. I couldn't
believe that parents were treating their children that way. THEN...
he started wrestling. I have never seen ANYTHING like it in my ENTIRE
life. Youth wrestling is a nightmare for non-competitive types.
Youth wrestling was more intense then high school wrestling when I
would go watch my brother, way back in highschool. I would feel
justified in saying most parents steer clear of ever allowing their
child to wrestle. It really is not a peaceful environment.

I think after the initial shock of it all, I started to see the other
parents less and less. I focused only on my son and his needs and
wants. Admittedly, we were lucky to have fabulous coaches, who
exemplified sportsmanship and remained positive. I would say watch
your son closely, see if he even notices the other parents. He might
not. Focus on him, talk about situations as they arise. If he is
noticing, it's a great opportunity to discuss real life situations and
how he feels about them. Overall, my son has had extremely positive
experiences.

Try not to be afraid to talk to or speak up to the coach if necessary
and be an example to the other parents. Sometimes I feel that is is
necessary to put my "blinders" on in order to support my son exactly
the way he needs me to. Good luck!




--- In [email protected], "hmschleidt"
<hmschleidt@...> wrote:
>
> I just got home from our Local YMCA. My 8 yo plays basketball, by
> his choice, and he loves to play (although he is not very good, but
> he doesn't know that!). My son was rotated out of the game 4 times,
> while the better children played the entire game. That doesn't
> bother me too much because it didn't bother him, but it is not in the
> spirit of the YMCA guidelines. My husband and I support him and
> watch, but we don't scream and yell and try and coach him from the
> sidelines.
>
> Throughout the last three weeks of games I have been so disgusted
> with the yelling, screaming, and tormenting of the kids by their
> parents. One man today had the nerve to tell his son that when he
> was telling him something (the kid was in the middle of the game on
> the court) that he had better listen to him. There is no team spirit
> in the area - many parents offer $1 per basket that the kids make.
> they usually don't encourage the other kids on the team, they just
> scream for their individual child to "get the ball and shoot".
>
> My point in bringing this up is to ask whether it is ok for my son to
> be in this environment. I am not a "sheltering" person by nature,
> but at 8 and 9 yo these kids should be allowed to just play the game
> and not feel the stress of competition. They don't even keep score
> in this league until they are 10. This is what he wants to do, but
> at what point, if any, should I allow my child to be subjected to
> this environment when I am trying to promote a different type of
> environment at home?
>
> Any advice how to handle the games and the parents? I had to remove
> myself today for a few minutes so that I wouldn't say something out
> of line. I said something to one parent today (hopefully, nicely)
> because he was beating up his child verbally for missing shots. I
> checked into other programs but didn't like the demands of 2
> practices a week plus games. The only homeschool league I know of is
> an hour away and I can't commit to that at this time.
>
> I know a little bit of competition can have its place in society, but
> usually the homeschoolers I hang out with focus on having fun and
> learning. Any thoughts?
>

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jan 25, 2009, at 6:36 AM, swissarmy_wife wrote:

> He's played soccer for a few years now and at first the verbal
> assaults coming from the parents used to really bother me.

We've been involved in AYSO soccer for 20 years. My husband coaches
soccer and in our AYSO region the referees give red cards to the team
if a parent yells out anything very negative. If anybody on the
sidelines yells out ANYTHING about the refereeing it is an automatic
red card to the team. My husband talks to the parents at the first
parents' meeting and tells them that HE is the coach and they should
absolutely only ever be shouting out encouragement - no criticisms and
no coaching at all from the sidelines. My husband is very mild-
mannered, but if a parent gets out of line, he goes over and asks
them, usually jokingly but making the point, "Hey- want the coach's
job?" <G> Another thing is that I take a video camera and start
filming from right where the obnoxious parent is (by the way, it is
more often a grandfather than anybody else). I say, "Hey, everybody,
be on your best behavior, I'm filming this!" Also, the team parent
sometimes will hand a lollipop to an offending parent - they get the
message. And the region puts up lots of signs and hands out buttons
and makes a big point that this is for the kids and what the role of
the parents ought to be. It all seems to work well - there are very
few problems.

Our region is so great about this that it comes as a complete shock to
our kids when they get into playoffs and the other team's parents are
loud and obnoxious.

-pam