Re: Wii
Adrean Clark
We have a GameCube and several DSes. My son really wants a Wii but has a
tendency to be aggressive about his things. He tends to take over his
younger brothers' things and has issues with sharing time on his games. We
also have two computers, one is his own laptop. I try to manage time the
best I can between them, and try to remind them to ask each other about
using their things.
He asked for a Wii recently and we talked it over for several months, both
of us saving up money for it. But I grew more concerned about his
unwillingness to share with his brothers -- and I knew I could not commit to
policing Wii usage for several weeks. Nor could I bear the inevitable
explosions when he has to turn over time to his younger brothers (as they
were saving up for it too in a combined purchase). My husband could not
either (he's deafblind and unable to catch what's going on on-screen.
Prefers not to have anything to do with it, which leaves it up to me :/) So
we talked about it and I said I supported his desire for a Wii and think
it's totally awesome but I could not give the energy needed for it to come
into our household.
He was VERY upset, to say the least. Instead of getting the Wii we went to
the game store and bought a lot of older GameCube games and some DS games.
We were able to get a lot of things for the same price as the Wii and one
game, but I wonder if I was shortchanging him? Were we diverging from the
ideal of unschooling here?
As a side note: There is a big difference between my older and younger
children. My son went through school up til partway of 2nd grade and the
twins only had one semester of preschool. They also have each other while
my oldest is a bit alone. I think he feels powerless at times because of
his experience (and our authoritarian days *sigh*) and does things to regain
his feeling of power. It's not always healthy and I really want to find ways
to help him be healthy. He loves gaming and the computer and I try to give
him that freedom except when it conflicts with others, then it's tough
because he lacks a lot of patience. :/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tendency to be aggressive about his things. He tends to take over his
younger brothers' things and has issues with sharing time on his games. We
also have two computers, one is his own laptop. I try to manage time the
best I can between them, and try to remind them to ask each other about
using their things.
He asked for a Wii recently and we talked it over for several months, both
of us saving up money for it. But I grew more concerned about his
unwillingness to share with his brothers -- and I knew I could not commit to
policing Wii usage for several weeks. Nor could I bear the inevitable
explosions when he has to turn over time to his younger brothers (as they
were saving up for it too in a combined purchase). My husband could not
either (he's deafblind and unable to catch what's going on on-screen.
Prefers not to have anything to do with it, which leaves it up to me :/) So
we talked about it and I said I supported his desire for a Wii and think
it's totally awesome but I could not give the energy needed for it to come
into our household.
He was VERY upset, to say the least. Instead of getting the Wii we went to
the game store and bought a lot of older GameCube games and some DS games.
We were able to get a lot of things for the same price as the Wii and one
game, but I wonder if I was shortchanging him? Were we diverging from the
ideal of unschooling here?
As a side note: There is a big difference between my older and younger
children. My son went through school up til partway of 2nd grade and the
twins only had one semester of preschool. They also have each other while
my oldest is a bit alone. I think he feels powerless at times because of
his experience (and our authoritarian days *sigh*) and does things to regain
his feeling of power. It's not always healthy and I really want to find ways
to help him be healthy. He loves gaming and the computer and I try to give
him that freedom except when it conflicts with others, then it's tough
because he lacks a lot of patience. :/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
Hi Adrean,
Is there a reason you can't set up the different games on different
tv's - have more than one going at a time?
I don't remember how old your son is, but also "sharing" is very
difficult for some children (for a lot of children at different ages).
You might be expecting him to share too much. For us, during the times
when one or more kids was not finding it easy to share, it helped to
clearly define who things belonged to - it would have been a set-up
for conflict for the kids to all own one game system together. Even
now, my kids seem very very generous, but they do like to know which
things belong to whom. They "lend" each other their games, books,
clothing, music, etc., constantly, but they like to be asked before
anybody borrows something from them.
So - what I'm saying is - if your older son owned the Wii, it would be
his and he could then be generous with it if he wanted to be, and that
is a FAR nicer feeling than being forced to share. I don't think being
forced to share encourages generosity at all, quite the opposite. When
property rights are clearly defined, it is a lot easier for the kids
to make their own deals, work out how to share something. Yes, it is
possible that your son will absolutely refuse to share at all, and I
think that should be allowed and supported. He ought to have things he
doesn't have to share. I honestly believe that when he feels
comfortable about his own control over his own things, he'll feel
comfortable to be generous. But, that might take a lot of years and
won't happen all at once.
-pam
Is there a reason you can't set up the different games on different
tv's - have more than one going at a time?
I don't remember how old your son is, but also "sharing" is very
difficult for some children (for a lot of children at different ages).
You might be expecting him to share too much. For us, during the times
when one or more kids was not finding it easy to share, it helped to
clearly define who things belonged to - it would have been a set-up
for conflict for the kids to all own one game system together. Even
now, my kids seem very very generous, but they do like to know which
things belong to whom. They "lend" each other their games, books,
clothing, music, etc., constantly, but they like to be asked before
anybody borrows something from them.
So - what I'm saying is - if your older son owned the Wii, it would be
his and he could then be generous with it if he wanted to be, and that
is a FAR nicer feeling than being forced to share. I don't think being
forced to share encourages generosity at all, quite the opposite. When
property rights are clearly defined, it is a lot easier for the kids
to make their own deals, work out how to share something. Yes, it is
possible that your son will absolutely refuse to share at all, and I
think that should be allowed and supported. He ought to have things he
doesn't have to share. I honestly believe that when he feels
comfortable about his own control over his own things, he'll feel
comfortable to be generous. But, that might take a lot of years and
won't happen all at once.
-pam
On Jan 17, 2009, at 9:51 AM, Adrean Clark wrote:
> He was VERY upset, to say the least. Instead of getting the Wii we
> went to
> the game store and bought a lot of older GameCube games and some DS
> games.
> We were able to get a lot of things for the same price as the Wii
> and one
> game, but I wonder if I was shortchanging him? Were we diverging
> from the
> ideal of unschooling here?
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Adrean Clark"
<adreanaline@...> wrote:
handle this better and I'm not"? If not, you can still tell him. It
would be good to let him know that you understand that you set him up
with big expectations and then pulled the rug out from under him.
Pam had some good points about sharing.
We don't have a whole lot of financial resources, but we work to set
ourselves up so there isn't a whole lot of stress around whose "turn"
it is on the computer or Playstation. Mo tends to focus all day long
on something - games, drawing, climbing, anything she does she
prefers to do all day. So we try to set Her up with enough options
that she isn't always choosing the computer, for example, since we
all want to at least check our email regularly. If computer or video
games were something she wanted to do most days, we'd look into
getting a second system, for sure.
through the aftermath. I've consistently found that my kids have more
patience when they experience a lot of kindness and generosity.
Getting a Wii right now probably isn't an option - I assume y'all
would have to save up again. But what about a second Game Cube? Or
another format entirely? Its something to talk about with your guy,
anyway. Offer to pay for as much of it as you possibly can. Consider
it an investment in peace and harmony. Do let him know that you
messed up by offerring the Wii and then changing your mind. Ask him
if he has ideas for solutions.
Did you get the GC new? Were you planning on a new Wii? I'd
definitely check with local pawn shops - see if you can leave your
number for them to call when they get a Wii. We've had good luck with
gently used electronics from pawn shops. Significantly cheaper than
buying through games stores, too.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<adreanaline@...> wrote:
>Sothink
> we talked about it and I said I supported his desire for a Wii and
> it's totally awesome but I could not give the energy needed for itto come
> into our household.Did you at least say "I'm sorry I messed up, I thought I was ready to
>
> He was VERY upset, to say the least.
handle this better and I'm not"? If not, you can still tell him. It
would be good to let him know that you understand that you set him up
with big expectations and then pulled the rug out from under him.
Pam had some good points about sharing.
We don't have a whole lot of financial resources, but we work to set
ourselves up so there isn't a whole lot of stress around whose "turn"
it is on the computer or Playstation. Mo tends to focus all day long
on something - games, drawing, climbing, anything she does she
prefers to do all day. So we try to set Her up with enough options
that she isn't always choosing the computer, for example, since we
all want to at least check our email regularly. If computer or video
games were something she wanted to do most days, we'd look into
getting a second system, for sure.
> He loves gaming and the computer and I try to givetough
> him that freedom except when it conflicts with others, then it's
> because he lacks a lot of patience.All the more reason to try and prevent conflict, rather than wading
through the aftermath. I've consistently found that my kids have more
patience when they experience a lot of kindness and generosity.
Getting a Wii right now probably isn't an option - I assume y'all
would have to save up again. But what about a second Game Cube? Or
another format entirely? Its something to talk about with your guy,
anyway. Offer to pay for as much of it as you possibly can. Consider
it an investment in peace and harmony. Do let him know that you
messed up by offerring the Wii and then changing your mind. Ask him
if he has ideas for solutions.
Did you get the GC new? Were you planning on a new Wii? I'd
definitely check with local pawn shops - see if you can leave your
number for them to call when they get a Wii. We've had good luck with
gently used electronics from pawn shops. Significantly cheaper than
buying through games stores, too.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Vickisue Gray
Snip>
When property rights are clearly defined, it is a lot easier for the kids
to make their own deals, work out how to share something.
Snip>
This is a VERY good point. We started collecting Rokenbok years ago when it first came out. Due to the children's ages at the time, ALL of it was designated as DAD'S stuff. Dad is VERY generous with sharing with the only requirement being not to be abusive. We now have an extremely large collection which has survived many hours of play with few causalities and no fighting over sharing. Modeling the behavior you wish to see goes a long way to helping it happen.
Vicki
snip
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When property rights are clearly defined, it is a lot easier for the kids
to make their own deals, work out how to share something.
Snip>
This is a VERY good point. We started collecting Rokenbok years ago when it first came out. Due to the children's ages at the time, ALL of it was designated as DAD'S stuff. Dad is VERY generous with sharing with the only requirement being not to be abusive. We now have an extremely large collection which has survived many hours of play with few causalities and no fighting over sharing. Modeling the behavior you wish to see goes a long way to helping it happen.
Vicki
snip
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
Andrean,
Could you please remind us how old your boys are?
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrean Clark <adreanaline@...>
He was VERY upset, to say the least. Instead of getting the Wii we went to
the game store and bought a lot of older GameCube games and some DS games.
We were able to get a lot of things for the same price as the Wii and one
game, but I wonder if I was shortchanging him? Were we diverging from the
ideal of unschooling here?
As a side note: There is a big difference between my older and younger
children. My son went through school up til partway of 2nd grade and the
twins only had one semester of preschool. They also have each other while
my oldest is a bit alone. I think he feels powerless at times because of
his experience (and our authoritarian days *sigh*) and does things to regain
his feeling of power. It's not always healthy and I really want to find ways
to help him be healthy. He loves gaming and the computer and I try to give
him that freedom except when it conflicts with others, then it's tough
because he lacks a lot of patience. :/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Could you please remind us how old your boys are?
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrean Clark <adreanaline@...>
He was VERY upset, to say the least. Instead of getting the Wii we went to
the game store and bought a lot of older GameCube games and some DS games.
We were able to get a lot of things for the same price as the Wii and one
game, but I wonder if I was shortchanging him? Were we diverging from the
ideal of unschooling here?
As a side note: There is a big difference between my older and younger
children. My son went through school up til partway of 2nd grade and the
twins only had one semester of preschool. They also have each other while
my oldest is a bit alone. I think he feels powerless at times because of
his experience (and our authoritarian days *sigh*) and does things to regain
his feeling of power. It's not always healthy and I really want to find ways
to help him be healthy. He loves gaming and the computer and I try to give
him that freedom except when it conflicts with others, then it's tough
because he lacks a lot of patience. :/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Adrean Clark
Jael is 9 and the twins are 5. I forgot to mention we have a GameCube
and lots of games for it (15+), sorry. We also have a foosball table
and board games/toys -- so it's not really a matter of a paucity of
other things to play with. Jael can be intense about wanting what he
wants right NOW no matter if it belongs to his brothers and they don't
want to share, and vice versa. :/
I did apologize for changing my mind too. I appreciate all your
suggestions, still thinking it over.
Adrean
Sent from Gmail for mobile
and lots of games for it (15+), sorry. We also have a foosball table
and board games/toys -- so it's not really a matter of a paucity of
other things to play with. Jael can be intense about wanting what he
wants right NOW no matter if it belongs to his brothers and they don't
want to share, and vice versa. :/
I did apologize for changing my mind too. I appreciate all your
suggestions, still thinking it over.
Adrean
Sent from Gmail for mobile
On 1/18/09, Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...> wrote:
> Snip>
> When property rights are clearly defined, it is a lot easier for the kids
>
> to make their own deals, work out how to share something.
>
> Snip>
>
> This is a VERY good point. We started collecting Rokenbok years ago when it
> first came out. Due to the children's ages at the time, ALL of it was
> designated as DAD'S stuff. Dad is VERY generous with sharing with the only
> requirement being not to be abusive. We now have an extremely large
> collection which has survived many hours of play with few causalities and no
> fighting over sharing. Modeling the behavior you wish to see goes a long
> way to helping it happen.
>
> Vicki
>
> snip
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
Michelle Cloud
Adrean,
We have a Wii and love it. The great thing is, unlike most game system, the Wii has TONS of multi-player games. We play "Playground", "Wii Play", and my kids play the Lego games together. They are loads of fun and are very interactive. This has helped in the sharing department here.
Michelle
************************************
"Just as eating against one's will is injurious to health, so study without a liking for it spoils the memory, and it retains nothing it takes in."
--Leonardo da Vinci
We have a Wii and love it. The great thing is, unlike most game system, the Wii has TONS of multi-player games. We play "Playground", "Wii Play", and my kids play the Lego games together. They are loads of fun and are very interactive. This has helped in the sharing department here.
Michelle
************************************
"Just as eating against one's will is injurious to health, so study without a liking for it spoils the memory, and it retains nothing it takes in."
--Leonardo da Vinci
----- Original Message -----
From: Adrean Clark
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 6:51 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Wii
We have a GameCube and several DSes. My son really wants a Wii but has a
tendency to be aggressive about his things. He tends to take over his
younger brothers' things and has issues with sharing time on his games. We
also have two computers, one is his own laptop. I try to manage time the
best I can between them, and try to remind them to ask each other about
using their things.
He asked for a Wii recently and we talked it over for several months, both
of us saving up money for it. But I grew more concerned about his
unwillingness to share with his brothers -- and I knew I could not commit to
policing Wii usage for several weeks. Nor could I bear the inevitable
explosions when he has to turn over time to his younger brothers (as they
were saving up for it too in a combined purchase). My husband could not
either (he's deafblind and unable to catch what's going on on-screen.
Prefers not to have anything to do with it, which leaves it up to me :/) So
we talked about it and I said I supported his desire for a Wii and think
it's totally awesome but I could not give the energy needed for it to come
into our household.
He was VERY upset, to say the least. Instead of getting the Wii we went to
the game store and bought a lot of older GameCube games and some DS games.
We were able to get a lot of things for the same price as the Wii and one
game, but I wonder if I was shortchanging him? Were we diverging from the
ideal of unschooling here?
As a side note: There is a big difference between my older and younger
children. My son went through school up til partway of 2nd grade and the
twins only had one semester of preschool. They also have each other while
my oldest is a bit alone. I think he feels powerless at times because of
his experience (and our authoritarian days *sigh*) and does things to regain
his feeling of power. It's not always healthy and I really want to find ways
to help him be healthy. He loves gaming and the computer and I try to give
him that freedom except when it conflicts with others, then it's tough
because he lacks a lot of patience. :/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa
My 7 yr old son Jack really wanted a Wii Christmas before this
year...we could not find one readily so we talked about it and
discussed how Santa just couldn't make enough that year so perhaps we
could wait and get one at another occasion. He was 6 at the
time....he agreed that he could certainly wait and thought of some
other things he would like Santa to bring. This year my brother was
able to find a local store that had a good steady supply of Wii's and
got one for Jack to have at Christmas. He got one for his house and
my kids played with it several times before Christmas... Jack and
Ainsley (age 13) frequently fight and argue about video games and
other things so we were a bit worried since they were now both talking
about wanting a Wii for Christmas. We decided that we would not
talk about the Wii as far as it being a Christmas present so they both
had other things on their Christmas lists this year. It ended up that
Santa brought both of them a few games and then brought the actual
system as a family gift... it was left in a neutral spot not belonging
to anyone in the family room instead of in or near anyone's "pile" of
Santa gifts. Surprisingly it's worked out well... they each "own" a
few games that are of interest to the other but the system belongs to
us all... they have been able to work out sharing pretty well for the
most part. The first few days were a little hard because it was new
and everyone wanted to play but they have been able to work out a
pretty good system of sharing since then. I think it helps that we
all like it and everyone wants to play and lots of the games are only
fun if you play together. There are days when one will play alot but
so far they have worked it out without alot of parental involvement so
that everyone is happy.
I think that it was said that all the kids were saving their money for
the Wii... maybe it would work out better if they saved their money to
buy games and mom and dad saved their money to buy the actual system.
Or I suppose if everyone is saving towards it you could sit down and
figure out what games you would buy to go with it so that everything
belonged to everyone.
I think it's also important to remember that different kids "need"
different things... my 13 yr old has autism and sees things in a
different way than my other 3 kids... they understand that and they
know that "fair" for our family is that everyone gets what they need
rather than getting the "same". My kids seem to be pretty easy
going in giving in to their sister's needs ... they understand it's
hard for her to wait, it's hard for her to understand that other
people are waiting for a turn and it's hard for her to understand why
she can't always be first. They don't always let her be first but on
those days when it's just too hard for her to wait they are willing to
let her be first. I am sure that they aren't always happy about it
but they love her and see us modeling the same behavior where we
sometimes give her a "pass" because we understand her mind works
differently.
Lisa B
--- In [email protected], "Adrean Clark"
<adreanaline@...> wrote:
year...we could not find one readily so we talked about it and
discussed how Santa just couldn't make enough that year so perhaps we
could wait and get one at another occasion. He was 6 at the
time....he agreed that he could certainly wait and thought of some
other things he would like Santa to bring. This year my brother was
able to find a local store that had a good steady supply of Wii's and
got one for Jack to have at Christmas. He got one for his house and
my kids played with it several times before Christmas... Jack and
Ainsley (age 13) frequently fight and argue about video games and
other things so we were a bit worried since they were now both talking
about wanting a Wii for Christmas. We decided that we would not
talk about the Wii as far as it being a Christmas present so they both
had other things on their Christmas lists this year. It ended up that
Santa brought both of them a few games and then brought the actual
system as a family gift... it was left in a neutral spot not belonging
to anyone in the family room instead of in or near anyone's "pile" of
Santa gifts. Surprisingly it's worked out well... they each "own" a
few games that are of interest to the other but the system belongs to
us all... they have been able to work out sharing pretty well for the
most part. The first few days were a little hard because it was new
and everyone wanted to play but they have been able to work out a
pretty good system of sharing since then. I think it helps that we
all like it and everyone wants to play and lots of the games are only
fun if you play together. There are days when one will play alot but
so far they have worked it out without alot of parental involvement so
that everyone is happy.
I think that it was said that all the kids were saving their money for
the Wii... maybe it would work out better if they saved their money to
buy games and mom and dad saved their money to buy the actual system.
Or I suppose if everyone is saving towards it you could sit down and
figure out what games you would buy to go with it so that everything
belonged to everyone.
I think it's also important to remember that different kids "need"
different things... my 13 yr old has autism and sees things in a
different way than my other 3 kids... they understand that and they
know that "fair" for our family is that everyone gets what they need
rather than getting the "same". My kids seem to be pretty easy
going in giving in to their sister's needs ... they understand it's
hard for her to wait, it's hard for her to understand that other
people are waiting for a turn and it's hard for her to understand why
she can't always be first. They don't always let her be first but on
those days when it's just too hard for her to wait they are willing to
let her be first. I am sure that they aren't always happy about it
but they love her and see us modeling the same behavior where we
sometimes give her a "pass" because we understand her mind works
differently.
Lisa B
--- In [email protected], "Adrean Clark"
<adreanaline@...> wrote:
>the kids
> Jael is 9 and the twins are 5. I forgot to mention we have a GameCube
> and lots of games for it (15+), sorry. We also have a foosball table
> and board games/toys -- so it's not really a matter of a paucity of
> other things to play with. Jael can be intense about wanting what he
> wants right NOW no matter if it belongs to his brothers and they don't
> want to share, and vice versa. :/
>
> I did apologize for changing my mind too. I appreciate all your
> suggestions, still thinking it over.
>
> Adrean
>
>
> Sent from Gmail for mobile
>
> On 1/18/09, Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...> wrote:
> > Snip>
> > When property rights are clearly defined, it is a lot easier for
> >ago when it
> > to make their own deals, work out how to share something.
> >
> > Snip>
> >
> > This is a VERY good point. We started collecting Rokenbok years
> > first came out. Due to the children's ages at the time, ALL of it wasthe only
> > designated as DAD'S stuff. Dad is VERY generous with sharing with
> > requirement being not to be abusive. We now have an extremely largecausalities and no
> > collection which has survived many hours of play with few
> > fighting over sharing. Modeling the behavior you wish to see goesa long
> > way to helping it happen.
> >
> > Vicki
> >
> > snip
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> --
> Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
>
Faith Void
If you purchase at extra controllers than all the children can play many of
the games. There are games that are for single players (like Mario Galaxy or
Animal Crossing) but most or for up to 4 players. We bowl together or play
golf or baseball together frequently.
Faith
the games. There are games that are for single players (like Mario Galaxy or
Animal Crossing) but most or for up to 4 players. We bowl together or play
golf or baseball together frequently.
Faith
On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Michelle Cloud <cloudfamily4@...>wrote:
> Adrean,
> We have a Wii and love it. The great thing is, unlike most game system, the
> Wii has TONS of multi-player games. We play "Playground", "Wii Play", and my
> kids play the Lego games together. They are loads of fun and are very
> interactive. This has helped in the sharing department here.
>
>
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
I think it's WONDERFUL that your kids are so generous with their sister!
What a gift!
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa <jlblock01@...>
I think it's also important to remember that different kids "need"
different things... my 13 yr old has autism and sees things in a
different way than my other 3 kids... they understand that and they
know that "fair" for our family is that everyone gets what they need
rather than getting the "same". My kids seem to be pretty easy
going in giving in to their sister's needs ... they understand it's
hard for her to wait, it's hard for her to understand that other
people are waiting for a turn and it's hard for her to understand why
she can't always be first. They don't always let her be first but on
those days when it's just too hard for her to wait they are willing to
let her be first. I am sure that they aren't always happy about it
but they love her and see us modeling the same behavior where we
sometimes give her a "pass" because we understand her mind works
differently.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What a gift!
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa <jlblock01@...>
I think it's also important to remember that different kids "need"
different things... my 13 yr old has autism and sees things in a
different way than my other 3 kids... they understand that and they
know that "fair" for our family is that everyone gets what they need
rather than getting the "same". My kids seem to be pretty easy
going in giving in to their sister's needs ... they understand it's
hard for her to wait, it's hard for her to understand that other
people are waiting for a turn and it's hard for her to understand why
she can't always be first. They don't always let her be first but on
those days when it's just too hard for her to wait they are willing to
let her be first. I am sure that they aren't always happy about it
but they love her and see us modeling the same behavior where we
sometimes give her a "pass" because we understand her mind works
differently.
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