Giving up on unschooling
Kelly Lovejoy
Again, I have someone who wants answers to a few questions. I'm guessing these aren't uncommon feelings:
****************************
Do you have any thoughts on when a family should give up on unschooling? When would school be a better option than staying home? How does the money available work into that?
****************************
Fire away!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
http://www.SchoolsOutSupport.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
****************************
Do you have any thoughts on when a family should give up on unschooling? When would school be a better option than staying home? How does the money available work into that?
****************************
Fire away!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
http://www.SchoolsOutSupport.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy
<kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
How does the money available work into that?
********************************
I suppose it depends on what you mean by "give up". If you can't figure
out how to live with your kids day in and day out without trying to
control their behavior, unschooling probably won't work very well for
you. That sounds snarky, but supporting our kids without "managing"
them is one of the harder parts of unschooling for many many parents -
it runs counter to what most of us once thought of as "good parenting".
Anyway, that's not to say that *homeschooling* won't work - a good
friend of mine manages her own controlling behavior by confining it
to "homeschool time". The rest of the time she's a fairly easygoing
parent. Then again, I know another mom who dropped homeschooling and
put her kids in school because she was so much more controlling as a
homeschooler it was ruining her relationship with the kids. With the
kids in school, she's less controlling when they're home.
Before Ray moved in with us, I kind of assumed that in dire financial
straights I could always send Mo to school for a little while - a
month, a year, whatever it took to find another option. But since Ray
was (according to the school principal) on the "prison track" its not
really an option to send *him* back to school. So when George got hurt,
we didn't even consider it. We begged money from friends and family for
a couple months until I landed a job. Its not exactly a high-paying
job, but we've been able to squeek by. We certainly don't have the
biggest, richest life we possibly could, but if the kids were in school
they're lives would be even smaller. If ever I'm not sure of that, I
ask Ray. He's sure.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
> ****************************unschooling? When would school be a better option than staying home?
> Do you have any thoughts on when a family should give up on
How does the money available work into that?
********************************
I suppose it depends on what you mean by "give up". If you can't figure
out how to live with your kids day in and day out without trying to
control their behavior, unschooling probably won't work very well for
you. That sounds snarky, but supporting our kids without "managing"
them is one of the harder parts of unschooling for many many parents -
it runs counter to what most of us once thought of as "good parenting".
Anyway, that's not to say that *homeschooling* won't work - a good
friend of mine manages her own controlling behavior by confining it
to "homeschool time". The rest of the time she's a fairly easygoing
parent. Then again, I know another mom who dropped homeschooling and
put her kids in school because she was so much more controlling as a
homeschooler it was ruining her relationship with the kids. With the
kids in school, she's less controlling when they're home.
Before Ray moved in with us, I kind of assumed that in dire financial
straights I could always send Mo to school for a little while - a
month, a year, whatever it took to find another option. But since Ray
was (according to the school principal) on the "prison track" its not
really an option to send *him* back to school. So when George got hurt,
we didn't even consider it. We begged money from friends and family for
a couple months until I landed a job. Its not exactly a high-paying
job, but we've been able to squeek by. We certainly don't have the
biggest, richest life we possibly could, but if the kids were in school
they're lives would be even smaller. If ever I'm not sure of that, I
ask Ray. He's sure.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Ren Allen
~~Do you have any thoughts on when a family should give up on
unschooling? When would school be a better option than staying home?
How does the money available work into that?~~
Reasons to stop unschooling (according to me;)
~Child decides to go to school
~Family atmosphere is abusive or dysfunctional (not that school fixes
anything, but at least the kid gets a break)
~The parent honestly can not physically support the family without
working and needs a free daycare.
Money has nothing to do with the decision to unschool for me, because
school doesn't help that one bit. It's pretty easy to come up with
some fun/cheap things that are more fun than school. Easy peasy.
My question in the early days (before we even unschooled) was always
"how will school be an answer?" or "how would school fix this
situation?" It never did. So we figured out that whatever issue we
were dealing with was simply LIFE and school wasn't going to "fix"
anything for us.:)
Ren
unschooling? When would school be a better option than staying home?
How does the money available work into that?~~
Reasons to stop unschooling (according to me;)
~Child decides to go to school
~Family atmosphere is abusive or dysfunctional (not that school fixes
anything, but at least the kid gets a break)
~The parent honestly can not physically support the family without
working and needs a free daycare.
Money has nothing to do with the decision to unschool for me, because
school doesn't help that one bit. It's pretty easy to come up with
some fun/cheap things that are more fun than school. Easy peasy.
My question in the early days (before we even unschooled) was always
"how will school be an answer?" or "how would school fix this
situation?" It never did. So we figured out that whatever issue we
were dealing with was simply LIFE and school wasn't going to "fix"
anything for us.:)
Ren
Adrean Clark
Maybe a related question could be -- "What are the signs that we're not
supporting our children according to the principles of unschooling?" Those
markers would help in evaluating whether or not we're providing an
environment better than school.
Adrean
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
supporting our children according to the principles of unschooling?" Those
markers would help in evaluating whether or not we're providing an
environment better than school.
Adrean
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 15, 2008, at 4:55 PM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:
When the kids want to try school.
When the parents want something different than what unschooling offers.
(Though primary focus should be the situation at home. School might
be a temporary safe or freeing place for the kids.)
When both parents must work to provide basic necessities. (Though
even that has other options: working opposite shifts, working at home
and so on. The list is a good place to ask for ideas.)
If money is tight, there are ways to barter and trade. Suggest gifts
of museum passes from relatives. Combing for free activities.
Asking on the list for other ideas :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Do you have any thoughts on when a family should give up onWhen the parents aren't willing to put in the time to make it work.
> unschooling?
When the kids want to try school.
When the parents want something different than what unschooling offers.
> When would school be a better option than staying home?When kids need a safe place to be during the day and home isn't.
(Though primary focus should be the situation at home. School might
be a temporary safe or freeing place for the kids.)
When both parents must work to provide basic necessities. (Though
even that has other options: working opposite shifts, working at home
and so on. The list is a good place to ask for ideas.)
> How does the money available work into that?Not at all.
If money is tight, there are ways to barter and trade. Suggest gifts
of museum passes from relatives. Combing for free activities.
Asking on the list for other ideas :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betj
I never thought I'd be baby-sitting as an adult but it sure provides extra money. Especially if you are in town with a team where people tailgate! I'd keep kids 8 hours, provide crafts and such and snacks and a meal and charge $35 for 1 child and $55 for 2. Most people are ok with you having your child(ren) with you too even at their house.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 05:29:55
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Giving up on unschooling
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 05:29:55
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Giving up on unschooling
On Dec 15, 2008, at 4:55 PM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:
> Do you have any thoughts on when a family should give up on
> unschooling?
When the parents aren't willing to put in the time to make it work.
When the kids want to try school.
When the parents want something different than what unschooling offers.
> When would school be a better option than staying home?
When kids need a safe place to be during the day and home isn't.
(Though primary focus should be the situation at home. School might
be a temporary safe or freeing place for the kids.)
When both parents must work to provide basic necessities. (Though
even that has other options: working opposite shifts, working at home
and so on. The list is a good place to ask for ideas.)
> How does the money available work into that?
Not at all.
If money is tight, there are ways to barter and trade. Suggest gifts
of museum passes from relatives. Combing for free activities.
Asking on the list for other ideas :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
From the anonymous OP:
**************
What can someone who is broke do to make their child's world as rich as possible?
Also, we have two supportive relatives. But we can only ask so much of them.
I also have no local friends...as you say, my best friends are in TX, etc...
**************
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
**************
What can someone who is broke do to make their child's world as rich as possible?
Also, we have two supportive relatives. But we can only ask so much of them.
I also have no local friends...as you say, my best friends are in TX, etc...
**************
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Professional Parenting
"When the kids want to try a school."
I'm not sure about that. In ten years of homeschooling at least three of my children have floated in and out of various schools for a few months at a time to see what its like. They were entirely their choices, not mine. My two sons chose to go to high school this year and I still consider us unschoolers. We learn what we are interested in at home and they are taking the courses that interest them and are offered in a school building. Beleive me, there are no courses in metal technology for teens in our city other then in a school. They are free to quit whenever they wish and I will support them and actually, one son is quitting after Christmas. We are still learner centred in our beleifs and I consider us still unschoolers. :-)
Judy Arnall, Peaceful Parenting, Family and Relationship Expert, Speaker (Professional Member of CAPS) and Author of "Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring, responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery" www.professionalparenting.ca Tele: (403) 714-6766 Email jarnall@... "Peace In The World Begins In The Home"
I'm not sure about that. In ten years of homeschooling at least three of my children have floated in and out of various schools for a few months at a time to see what its like. They were entirely their choices, not mine. My two sons chose to go to high school this year and I still consider us unschoolers. We learn what we are interested in at home and they are taking the courses that interest them and are offered in a school building. Beleive me, there are no courses in metal technology for teens in our city other then in a school. They are free to quit whenever they wish and I will support them and actually, one son is quitting after Christmas. We are still learner centred in our beleifs and I consider us still unschoolers. :-)
Judy Arnall, Peaceful Parenting, Family and Relationship Expert, Speaker (Professional Member of CAPS) and Author of "Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring, responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery" www.professionalparenting.ca Tele: (403) 714-6766 Email jarnall@... "Peace In The World Begins In The Home"
----- Original Message -----
From: Joyce Fetteroll
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Giving up on unschooling
On Dec 15, 2008, at 4:55 PM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:
> Do you have any thoughts on when a family should give up on
> unschooling?
When the parents aren't willing to put in the time to make it work.
When the kids want to try school.
When the parents want something different than what unschooling offers.
> When would school be a better option than staying home?
When kids need a safe place to be during the day and home isn't.
(Though primary focus should be the situation at home. School might
be a temporary safe or freeing place for the kids.)
When both parents must work to provide basic necessities. (Though
even that has other options: working opposite shifts, working at home
and so on. The list is a good place to ask for ideas.)
> How does the money available work into that?
Not at all.
If money is tight, there are ways to barter and trade. Suggest gifts
of museum passes from relatives. Combing for free activities.
Asking on the list for other ideas :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carenkh
Just wrote a blog post this morning, about being broke when Evan was
younger:
http://openheartedlife.blogspot.com/2008/12/christmas-tree-perspective.html
Make use of what's around you - we live within walking distance of a
park, and close to downtown, where there's a great library and a kids'
library, with computers with software we don't have, and an animation
studio. Tons of books and movies, and if they don't have the one we
want, we use inter-library loan.
I got museum memberships for my birthday. For my birthday and
Christmas presents, I ask for gift certificates to get things for the
boys - Target, Amazon.com, etc.
I get on FreeCycle and ask for things, and catch things the boys might
want. We don't always get what we want, but Seth got over 200 Yu-Gi-Oh
cards that way.
I have done a LOT of work to change my thinking about money and
spending. Reading "Your Money or Your Life" by Dominguez and Robins
opened my eyes in a LOT of ways. I felt a little ashamed at Kelly's
previous post - the person buying organic coffee but not having enough
for the kids' wants was me, years ago. I read that book, which points
out that what you spend on shows what you value - and it showed, for
one month, that I valued Starbucks and magazines over the boys'
education. Never again!! Once I SAW that, I saw it. It makes my
stomach knot up when I think of it - but I was in that "But it's
MYYYYY turn!" mode, and I didn't even see it 'til I wrote it all down.
This was when I was married, and we were fairly secure financially.
I accept what is. I stopped fighting reality. I stopped thinking we
*should* have more. I began taking responsibility - that was new! And
that's just in the past couple of years, I'm still learning about
that. I realized the most important THING I could give my kids is ME,
and my unconditional support for what they want.
I had to stop believing I was broke, and I started really appreciating
what we DO have. We have an abundant, abundant life, with not much
money. The time to daydream is abundance. The time to create with no
bell telling you to change subjects is abundance. The time we spend
cuddled up watching TV, with no need to go to bed by a certain time is
abundance.
It's all a journey, and I'm not perfect by any means (hey, Kelly!),
but my kids KNOW I'm here for them. When I was a child, I stopped
asking for what I wanted, because we never had the money. I stopped
dreaming. I saw my mom spending over $100 a month on cigarettes, but
we had to fight to get her to buy our school yearbooks. She used money
as an excuse, but really, it was her unwillingness to support us that
"broke" us, her unhealed childhood.
So even if we're not always able to get the particular THING, we have
a rich life, because we know how special this unschooling life is. The
boys have schooled friends in the neighborhood with conventional
parents, and they MUCH prefer our rich life, with not much money, to
the life they'd have if I worked full-time.
Caren
younger:
http://openheartedlife.blogspot.com/2008/12/christmas-tree-perspective.html
Make use of what's around you - we live within walking distance of a
park, and close to downtown, where there's a great library and a kids'
library, with computers with software we don't have, and an animation
studio. Tons of books and movies, and if they don't have the one we
want, we use inter-library loan.
I got museum memberships for my birthday. For my birthday and
Christmas presents, I ask for gift certificates to get things for the
boys - Target, Amazon.com, etc.
I get on FreeCycle and ask for things, and catch things the boys might
want. We don't always get what we want, but Seth got over 200 Yu-Gi-Oh
cards that way.
I have done a LOT of work to change my thinking about money and
spending. Reading "Your Money or Your Life" by Dominguez and Robins
opened my eyes in a LOT of ways. I felt a little ashamed at Kelly's
previous post - the person buying organic coffee but not having enough
for the kids' wants was me, years ago. I read that book, which points
out that what you spend on shows what you value - and it showed, for
one month, that I valued Starbucks and magazines over the boys'
education. Never again!! Once I SAW that, I saw it. It makes my
stomach knot up when I think of it - but I was in that "But it's
MYYYYY turn!" mode, and I didn't even see it 'til I wrote it all down.
This was when I was married, and we were fairly secure financially.
I accept what is. I stopped fighting reality. I stopped thinking we
*should* have more. I began taking responsibility - that was new! And
that's just in the past couple of years, I'm still learning about
that. I realized the most important THING I could give my kids is ME,
and my unconditional support for what they want.
I had to stop believing I was broke, and I started really appreciating
what we DO have. We have an abundant, abundant life, with not much
money. The time to daydream is abundance. The time to create with no
bell telling you to change subjects is abundance. The time we spend
cuddled up watching TV, with no need to go to bed by a certain time is
abundance.
It's all a journey, and I'm not perfect by any means (hey, Kelly!),
but my kids KNOW I'm here for them. When I was a child, I stopped
asking for what I wanted, because we never had the money. I stopped
dreaming. I saw my mom spending over $100 a month on cigarettes, but
we had to fight to get her to buy our school yearbooks. She used money
as an excuse, but really, it was her unwillingness to support us that
"broke" us, her unhealed childhood.
So even if we're not always able to get the particular THING, we have
a rich life, because we know how special this unschooling life is. The
boys have schooled friends in the neighborhood with conventional
parents, and they MUCH prefer our rich life, with not much money, to
the life they'd have if I worked full-time.
Caren
>as possible?
> **************
> What can someone who is broke do to make their child's world as rich
>
Melissa Gray
When I first joined one unschooling list, someone told me that if I
couldn't afford x, y, z, then I shouldn't have 1) chosen
homeschooling or 2) chosen children. That irritated me beyond all
belief.
Money is not the end-all of life, and there are an infinite number of
ways to enrich an environment without spending money, kids mostly
want love and security and respect. There has been a lot of talk on
the list lately about wish lists and opening things up to the universe.
Every museum in our city has free days, at some point in the year, we
assiduously record those days and attend. I offer volunteer work at
some places to get free entry. We might go without McD's for a few
weeks, to save up money to go someplace. The kids gave up sodas for
nearly two months to save up gas money to go to Kansas City. We never
once said, 'this is how we'll save money', what we said was 'how can
we get $x for gas money, $y for a hotel room, and $z to get into the
museum?' Of course, they are completely involved in our budgeting, so
they know how much we spend on soda, on snacks, etc. Sodas are less
than 50¢ each, but it adds up quickly. Box of cookies, even the
dollar ones, cost a lot more than making them, and cooking with kids
is another way to enrich their world. And build relationships, as
well as trust.
Then there's always freecycle, craigslist, the salvation army store
(our favorite, all kinds of hidden treasures). Flea markets. Yard
sales. Library book sales (the last day at our public library is an
entire box for $5) The internet opens up an entire world, and we can
make things ourselves with what is available, or with cheaper
components. We got a case of test tubes from a coworker just by
mentioning that Emily was looking for some, her spouse works in a
research facility. Make some new friends. Get on mothering.com and
find your tribe, find people on THIS list who live in your area, or
have family in your area. Open your home to traveling unschoolers (we
did that and had such a wonderful time!!! Went to the free day at the
science museum, learned so much about what THEY knew and got some
great ideas)
The possibilities are endless, if you let yourself believe that they
are.
couldn't afford x, y, z, then I shouldn't have 1) chosen
homeschooling or 2) chosen children. That irritated me beyond all
belief.
Money is not the end-all of life, and there are an infinite number of
ways to enrich an environment without spending money, kids mostly
want love and security and respect. There has been a lot of talk on
the list lately about wish lists and opening things up to the universe.
Every museum in our city has free days, at some point in the year, we
assiduously record those days and attend. I offer volunteer work at
some places to get free entry. We might go without McD's for a few
weeks, to save up money to go someplace. The kids gave up sodas for
nearly two months to save up gas money to go to Kansas City. We never
once said, 'this is how we'll save money', what we said was 'how can
we get $x for gas money, $y for a hotel room, and $z to get into the
museum?' Of course, they are completely involved in our budgeting, so
they know how much we spend on soda, on snacks, etc. Sodas are less
than 50¢ each, but it adds up quickly. Box of cookies, even the
dollar ones, cost a lot more than making them, and cooking with kids
is another way to enrich their world. And build relationships, as
well as trust.
Then there's always freecycle, craigslist, the salvation army store
(our favorite, all kinds of hidden treasures). Flea markets. Yard
sales. Library book sales (the last day at our public library is an
entire box for $5) The internet opens up an entire world, and we can
make things ourselves with what is available, or with cheaper
components. We got a case of test tubes from a coworker just by
mentioning that Emily was looking for some, her spouse works in a
research facility. Make some new friends. Get on mothering.com and
find your tribe, find people on THIS list who live in your area, or
have family in your area. Open your home to traveling unschoolers (we
did that and had such a wonderful time!!! Went to the free day at the
science museum, learned so much about what THEY knew and got some
great ideas)
The possibilities are endless, if you let yourself believe that they
are.
On Dec 16, 2008, at 7:45 AM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:
>
>
> From the anonymous OP:
>
> **************
> What can someone who is broke do to make their child's world as
> rich as possible?
>
> Also, we have two supportive relatives. But we can only ask so much
> of them.
>
> I also have no local friends...as you say, my best friends are in
> TX, etc...
>
> **************
>
> ~Kelly
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
What can someone who is broke do to make their child's world as rich as
possible?
Also, we have two supportive relatives. But we can only ask so much of them.
I also have no local friends...as you say, my best friends are in TX, etc...
**************
As many of you know, I don't buy into the popular "Law of Attraction." But I *do* believe that, if you put your needs "out there," your needs will more likely be met. Not letting others know what you need won't get you anything any sooner!
Deb Rossing mentioned that she wants a keyboard. She wasn't "fishing" for one. She just mentioned it in passing on a list. I know we have one somewhere in our house. (I still haven't found it, Deb. I'll have Cameron look when he gets back!) But there's a real possibility that Deb will have one in the next few weeks---just because "someone" heard she wanted one.
There are always people out there who love you. Ask them. What will it cost you but humility? Years ago, we were in the midst of what's known here as "The Big Suck." I'll spare you all the nasty details, but we were broke. New baby, Ben was making NO money (in fact, Duncan's conception was due to celebrating a long-overdue paycheck <g>), I was clinically depressed but refusing meds, and I was working full-time trying just to feed us and keep the electricity on. I humbled myself and asked a client for money. She didn't blink an eye as she sat down and wrote out a
$6,000.00 check. (Who the F*** has $6,000.00 in CHECKING???) It saved my business, and we kept our house. We had to declare bankruptcy eventually anyway, but it got us through another year.
I told my father we had nothing for the boys for Christmas a couple of years after that: it was the kids' best Christmas ever: a trampoline for Duncan and a drum set for Cameron. Daddy helped a lot during that time---he even paid our mortgage a couple of times. On the other hand, when we went to *Ben's* father for help during The Big Suck, he told Ben to suck it up and get a job, and he wouldn't give us a penny. But that very much clarified our relationships with our fathers. Since then, we've sent my parents to NY for a weekend and sent my dad and Cameron to Scotland for ten days. (What goes around, comes around. <G>)
We also often asked for memberships to zoos and museums here. Season passes to things like the philharmonic, the town theatre, or the ballet. That way the gift can *give* for a whole year. And it always feels as if there's something to do that's "free." Plus, for unschoolers, it makes the grandparents think that they are helping with their grandchildren's meager education. <G>
As goofy as it sounds, volunteering is a great way to help yourself. You meet some really neat people. You get to see that you're wealthy in so many ways when you see others with even less than you have. And you might even be on the receiving end if you let the orga
nization know. We've worked with a nursing home and a food bank, we've adopted several families through Families Helping Families, and we've raised two guide dogs. In the end, we received waaaay more than we gave. Seriously---consider volunteering at the local soup kitchen or for Toys for Tots. It's an outlay of time, not money. (And usually---well, in my case, anyway--- when you have one, you don't have the other. <G>)
And regarding making their worlds as rich as possible: Do you know the difference between rich and wealthy? Rich means you have money. Wealthy means you have time. Make the most of what you *have*.
Friends don't have to be local. My best friends live far away. We use the US Postal Service. <G>
I've lent my saddles to teens who couldn't afford to buy them. I keep thinking that I'll want to ride again, so I'm not comfortable giving them away or selling them, but I tell them that they can have them on semi-permanent loan. <G> Both have eventually been returned when the girls have changed interests or saved up enough to buy a saddle they wanted---and always in perfect condition.
If your child were to want a.......keyboard, for example <G>, put the word out there. Someone you know has one gathering dust somewhere. Unschoolers have GREAT resources available to us now! I can't get into that RUN.NING thang, but THAT would be a FANTASTIC place for a bulletin board, of sorts. Ren? Laura? An "I need" and an "I have available" board? Where folks could p
ost what they need for their children?
Our kids outgrow and lose interest in things all the time. And there's always a child who would LOVE a used "whatever." Deb Lewis' son, Dylan, sent Duncan a huge box full of Bionicles he'd out grown a year or so ago. In their original boxes, no less! Duncan was thrilled! I sent Ren's son, Jalen, a box of Spiderman stuff that Duncan outgrew because we knew Jalen loved Spiderman. I have a box FULL of R.L. Stine's Goosebump books that's just taking up space. Anybody looking for spooky books? <g>
People LOVE to share their passions. I LOVE talking to horse-crazed girls, veterinarian/groomer wannabees, dog show groupies, and unschoolers! I love being with beekeepers and gardeners. I'm happy to share my knowledge AND my equipment with someone who will get as much enjoyment out of it as I do. I'm not alone! <g> I think that's true of *most* people! We like to see eyes light up at a new discovery or ability! Ask folks with the same passions as your children for help. I know that most show dog breeders readily give *very* nice dogs to junior handlers because they know that pup will be well cared for and that that child will work HARD to make that dog a champion. $1,000 dogs! Free! Because they know it can be an expensive hobby for a child---and because maybe *they* had mentors who helped them get started in the same way.
Cameron has spent hours and hours with some of the top magicians in the world working on sleights. He's20had lessons from some of the biggest names in skateboarding. He's sat and jammed with some BIG names in music. He's worked with famous actors in films. Simply because they ALL love what they do and want to share.
Money shouldn't stand in the way of passion. I know that it *can*---especially if we're not willing to take chances and ask for help. But it doesn't HAVE to! Passion-sharers love to find each other! Step out on the limb!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What can someone who is broke do to make their child's world as rich as
possible?
Also, we have two supportive relatives. But we can only ask so much of them.
I also have no local friends...as you say, my best friends are in TX, etc...
**************
As many of you know, I don't buy into the popular "Law of Attraction." But I *do* believe that, if you put your needs "out there," your needs will more likely be met. Not letting others know what you need won't get you anything any sooner!
Deb Rossing mentioned that she wants a keyboard. She wasn't "fishing" for one. She just mentioned it in passing on a list. I know we have one somewhere in our house. (I still haven't found it, Deb. I'll have Cameron look when he gets back!) But there's a real possibility that Deb will have one in the next few weeks---just because "someone" heard she wanted one.
There are always people out there who love you. Ask them. What will it cost you but humility? Years ago, we were in the midst of what's known here as "The Big Suck." I'll spare you all the nasty details, but we were broke. New baby, Ben was making NO money (in fact, Duncan's conception was due to celebrating a long-overdue paycheck <g>), I was clinically depressed but refusing meds, and I was working full-time trying just to feed us and keep the electricity on. I humbled myself and asked a client for money. She didn't blink an eye as she sat down and wrote out a
$6,000.00 check. (Who the F*** has $6,000.00 in CHECKING???) It saved my business, and we kept our house. We had to declare bankruptcy eventually anyway, but it got us through another year.
I told my father we had nothing for the boys for Christmas a couple of years after that: it was the kids' best Christmas ever: a trampoline for Duncan and a drum set for Cameron. Daddy helped a lot during that time---he even paid our mortgage a couple of times. On the other hand, when we went to *Ben's* father for help during The Big Suck, he told Ben to suck it up and get a job, and he wouldn't give us a penny. But that very much clarified our relationships with our fathers. Since then, we've sent my parents to NY for a weekend and sent my dad and Cameron to Scotland for ten days. (What goes around, comes around. <G>)
We also often asked for memberships to zoos and museums here. Season passes to things like the philharmonic, the town theatre, or the ballet. That way the gift can *give* for a whole year. And it always feels as if there's something to do that's "free." Plus, for unschoolers, it makes the grandparents think that they are helping with their grandchildren's meager education. <G>
As goofy as it sounds, volunteering is a great way to help yourself. You meet some really neat people. You get to see that you're wealthy in so many ways when you see others with even less than you have. And you might even be on the receiving end if you let the orga
nization know. We've worked with a nursing home and a food bank, we've adopted several families through Families Helping Families, and we've raised two guide dogs. In the end, we received waaaay more than we gave. Seriously---consider volunteering at the local soup kitchen or for Toys for Tots. It's an outlay of time, not money. (And usually---well, in my case, anyway--- when you have one, you don't have the other. <G>)
And regarding making their worlds as rich as possible: Do you know the difference between rich and wealthy? Rich means you have money. Wealthy means you have time. Make the most of what you *have*.
Friends don't have to be local. My best friends live far away. We use the US Postal Service. <G>
I've lent my saddles to teens who couldn't afford to buy them. I keep thinking that I'll want to ride again, so I'm not comfortable giving them away or selling them, but I tell them that they can have them on semi-permanent loan. <G> Both have eventually been returned when the girls have changed interests or saved up enough to buy a saddle they wanted---and always in perfect condition.
If your child were to want a.......keyboard, for example <G>, put the word out there. Someone you know has one gathering dust somewhere. Unschoolers have GREAT resources available to us now! I can't get into that RUN.NING thang, but THAT would be a FANTASTIC place for a bulletin board, of sorts. Ren? Laura? An "I need" and an "I have available" board? Where folks could p
ost what they need for their children?
Our kids outgrow and lose interest in things all the time. And there's always a child who would LOVE a used "whatever." Deb Lewis' son, Dylan, sent Duncan a huge box full of Bionicles he'd out grown a year or so ago. In their original boxes, no less! Duncan was thrilled! I sent Ren's son, Jalen, a box of Spiderman stuff that Duncan outgrew because we knew Jalen loved Spiderman. I have a box FULL of R.L. Stine's Goosebump books that's just taking up space. Anybody looking for spooky books? <g>
People LOVE to share their passions. I LOVE talking to horse-crazed girls, veterinarian/groomer wannabees, dog show groupies, and unschoolers! I love being with beekeepers and gardeners. I'm happy to share my knowledge AND my equipment with someone who will get as much enjoyment out of it as I do. I'm not alone! <g> I think that's true of *most* people! We like to see eyes light up at a new discovery or ability! Ask folks with the same passions as your children for help. I know that most show dog breeders readily give *very* nice dogs to junior handlers because they know that pup will be well cared for and that that child will work HARD to make that dog a champion. $1,000 dogs! Free! Because they know it can be an expensive hobby for a child---and because maybe *they* had mentors who helped them get started in the same way.
Cameron has spent hours and hours with some of the top magicians in the world working on sleights. He's20had lessons from some of the biggest names in skateboarding. He's sat and jammed with some BIG names in music. He's worked with famous actors in films. Simply because they ALL love what they do and want to share.
Money shouldn't stand in the way of passion. I know that it *can*---especially if we're not willing to take chances and ask for help. But it doesn't HAVE to! Passion-sharers love to find each other! Step out on the limb!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
On not having money-
This last year we have gone from doing well to NO extra money and a really tight budget. I mean really tight.
We are still doing so much f not more than before.
Luckily we were members of the science museum, there s the library, local police station,
fire department, free zoo,etc
My son is at cub scout and they will let you join for free if you have no money and even borrow uniforms.
We get together with friends, go hiking, internet is full of stuff to explore and we even see whole movies on youtube
if we cannot rent.
There are free video games online ( lots- my son s an avid Roblox.com player). great free downloadable software
Stellarium is like having a planetarium at home.
Good will and other Thrift stores are great we found ice skates ( brand new) for 99 cents and there is a close by town that has ice stating for $1.
Having no money really stretches out imagination and has made me in some way a better unschooler
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
________________________________
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:29:55 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Giving up on unschooling
This last year we have gone from doing well to NO extra money and a really tight budget. I mean really tight.
We are still doing so much f not more than before.
Luckily we were members of the science museum, there s the library, local police station,
fire department, free zoo,etc
My son is at cub scout and they will let you join for free if you have no money and even borrow uniforms.
We get together with friends, go hiking, internet is full of stuff to explore and we even see whole movies on youtube
if we cannot rent.
There are free video games online ( lots- my son s an avid Roblox.com player). great free downloadable software
Stellarium is like having a planetarium at home.
Good will and other Thrift stores are great we found ice skates ( brand new) for 99 cents and there is a close by town that has ice stating for $1.
Having no money really stretches out imagination and has made me in some way a better unschooler
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
________________________________
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:29:55 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Giving up on unschooling
On Dec 15, 2008, at 4:55 PM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:
> Do you have any thoughts on when a family should give up on
> unschooling?
When the parents aren't willing to put in the time to make it work.
When the kids want to try school.
When the parents want something different than what unschooling offers.
> When would school be a better option than staying home?
When kids need a safe place to be during the day and home isn't.
(Though primary focus should be the situation at home. School might
be a temporary safe or freeing place for the kids.)
When both parents must work to provide basic necessities. (Though
even that has other options: working opposite shifts, working at home
and so on. The list is a good place to ask for ideas.)
> How does the money available work into that?
Not at all.
If money is tight, there are ways to barter and trade. Suggest gifts
of museum passes from relatives. Combing for free activities.
Asking on the list for other ideas :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
From: carenkh <carenkh@...>
It's all a journey, and I'm not perfect by any means (hey, Kelly!),
but my kids KNOW I'm here for them.
-=-=-=-=-=
You are the MOST perfect Caren there could ever be. But we can *all* be "more perfecter." <BWG>
I enjoyed your whole post. It's sometimes hard to see what we HAVE because we're too busy looking
at what we don't have.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: carenkh <carenkh@...>
It's all a journey, and I'm not perfect by any means (hey, Kelly!),
but my kids KNOW I'm here for them.
-=-=-=-=-=
You are the MOST perfect Caren there could ever be. But we can *all* be "more perfecter." <BWG>
I enjoyed your whole post. It's sometimes hard to see what we HAVE because we're too busy looking
at what we don't have.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
When should a family give up on unschooling? When the family being
together is unhealthy is probably the top of the list. If it's an
abusive situation or a neglectful situation, then definitely school
would probably be better for the kids than being home in an unsafe
situation. School would be a better option if the kids are ignored and
left to fend for themselves 24/7 while mom and dad "do their own thing"
whatever that may be (whether it's drugs or an all-consuming career).
Money is not a key factor necessarily - it's possible to unschool with
little money, it's possible to unschool with both parents working, it's
possible to unschool as a single parent, it's possible to unschool with
ongoing health issues in the family. BUT it does require being flexible
- it might mean mom and dad work opposite shifts for a time to bring in
enough income; it might mean recruiting a family member or friend to be
available to supervise/assist/transport the kid(s) while mom/dad work;
it might mean taking longer to get out of debt (or getting further into
debt for a time) and postponing a lot of other plans (vacations,
vehicles, bigger house, etc); it might mean looking for unique income
opportunities - like right now, I work fulltime and DH is home with DS,
but his interest in creating unique items out of duct tape is starting
to actually get close to breaking even - this is the first year so there
were some start up costs plus we were still just finding our way to
things like craft fairs, we're looking to actually make more than we
spend in 2009. It's not a ton of money but it helps with random stuff
like the occasional movie at the theater. Note that the interest came
first, then we had to figure out what to do with the stuff that was
accumulating in the spare room lol. It's also been cool because we've
bartered with other crafters for items and/or worked out discounts so
that we got much of our holiday shopping done for free or for less than
it would cost to do commercial shopping. (SHAMELESS PLUG:
www.creativeductapestry.etsy.com There's still time if you order by Dec
18 for things to get there by Christmas Eve if it ships by priority
mail).
Also, I think there's a big difference between stopping unschooling and
'giving up' on unschooling - you might not be unschooling technically
with the kids in school or doing school at home BUT it's a change of
direction, not giving up on it. That's different. Giving up on it is
saying that it can't work, won't work, is an impossibility. That's
different than saying Right now, for this time, we're changing direction
due to choice/circumstance.
To make the world rich doesn't take a lot of money - freecycle,
libraries (which often have music, art, movies, and other things that
can be explored), etc -but it does take time and effort. For instance,
many museums have a 'free admission' day on a regular basis. Many
libraries (at least up here) have free or discount passes to local
"attractions" (children's museum, aquarium, zoo, etc). Stepping out of
one's comfort zone and seeking out other homeschoolers as well - you can
get a group together and explore each other's interests... If I were
down south a bit, I might go visit Kelly and see her bees and talk about
dogs. We've talked about DS maybe spending a summer working with a
friend of ours building decks (once DS is old enough, if he so chooses).
Maybe he'd want to spend time with BIL learning about stuff (BIL is a
certified mechanic who also did about 85% of the construction work on
his house, they totally gutted it and rearranged rooms and everything,
and he's now on storm duty as a lineman with an electric company). A
friend of ours is a sculptress so maybe he'd want to spend time with
her. Other friends are musicians. All that is pretty much free access to
a whole wide world of things. And that doesn't include the Internet and
other media sources (and I'm guessing she has Internet access since
she's probably emailing these questions). Check out the free local
newspapers near the entrance to the grocery store - they usually have
free events for families listed. BUT as the OP says, since she has no
"local" friends, it's going to take some stepping out of her comfort
zone to find the resources, the people, the connections. Unless she
herself is content to have no local friends and not go anywhere or do
anything, she's going to make connections (and I'm guessing she may
already have some that she doesn't realize) and in doing so will be
expanding her child(ren)'s world. Even something as simple as exploring
new grocery stores or different parks in the area is a step in the wider
world.
Deb R
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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
together is unhealthy is probably the top of the list. If it's an
abusive situation or a neglectful situation, then definitely school
would probably be better for the kids than being home in an unsafe
situation. School would be a better option if the kids are ignored and
left to fend for themselves 24/7 while mom and dad "do their own thing"
whatever that may be (whether it's drugs or an all-consuming career).
Money is not a key factor necessarily - it's possible to unschool with
little money, it's possible to unschool with both parents working, it's
possible to unschool as a single parent, it's possible to unschool with
ongoing health issues in the family. BUT it does require being flexible
- it might mean mom and dad work opposite shifts for a time to bring in
enough income; it might mean recruiting a family member or friend to be
available to supervise/assist/transport the kid(s) while mom/dad work;
it might mean taking longer to get out of debt (or getting further into
debt for a time) and postponing a lot of other plans (vacations,
vehicles, bigger house, etc); it might mean looking for unique income
opportunities - like right now, I work fulltime and DH is home with DS,
but his interest in creating unique items out of duct tape is starting
to actually get close to breaking even - this is the first year so there
were some start up costs plus we were still just finding our way to
things like craft fairs, we're looking to actually make more than we
spend in 2009. It's not a ton of money but it helps with random stuff
like the occasional movie at the theater. Note that the interest came
first, then we had to figure out what to do with the stuff that was
accumulating in the spare room lol. It's also been cool because we've
bartered with other crafters for items and/or worked out discounts so
that we got much of our holiday shopping done for free or for less than
it would cost to do commercial shopping. (SHAMELESS PLUG:
www.creativeductapestry.etsy.com There's still time if you order by Dec
18 for things to get there by Christmas Eve if it ships by priority
mail).
Also, I think there's a big difference between stopping unschooling and
'giving up' on unschooling - you might not be unschooling technically
with the kids in school or doing school at home BUT it's a change of
direction, not giving up on it. That's different. Giving up on it is
saying that it can't work, won't work, is an impossibility. That's
different than saying Right now, for this time, we're changing direction
due to choice/circumstance.
To make the world rich doesn't take a lot of money - freecycle,
libraries (which often have music, art, movies, and other things that
can be explored), etc -but it does take time and effort. For instance,
many museums have a 'free admission' day on a regular basis. Many
libraries (at least up here) have free or discount passes to local
"attractions" (children's museum, aquarium, zoo, etc). Stepping out of
one's comfort zone and seeking out other homeschoolers as well - you can
get a group together and explore each other's interests... If I were
down south a bit, I might go visit Kelly and see her bees and talk about
dogs. We've talked about DS maybe spending a summer working with a
friend of ours building decks (once DS is old enough, if he so chooses).
Maybe he'd want to spend time with BIL learning about stuff (BIL is a
certified mechanic who also did about 85% of the construction work on
his house, they totally gutted it and rearranged rooms and everything,
and he's now on storm duty as a lineman with an electric company). A
friend of ours is a sculptress so maybe he'd want to spend time with
her. Other friends are musicians. All that is pretty much free access to
a whole wide world of things. And that doesn't include the Internet and
other media sources (and I'm guessing she has Internet access since
she's probably emailing these questions). Check out the free local
newspapers near the entrance to the grocery store - they usually have
free events for families listed. BUT as the OP says, since she has no
"local" friends, it's going to take some stepping out of her comfort
zone to find the resources, the people, the connections. Unless she
herself is content to have no local friends and not go anywhere or do
anything, she's going to make connections (and I'm guessing she may
already have some that she doesn't realize) and in doing so will be
expanding her child(ren)'s world. Even something as simple as exploring
new grocery stores or different parks in the area is a step in the wider
world.
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
>~~~As many of you know, I don't buy into the popular "Law of
Attraction." But I *do* believe that, if you put your needs "out
there," your needs will more likely be met. Not letting others know
what you need won't get you anything any sooner!~~~
Same here.
Though in low moments, I tend to feel that lame self-pity when we
don't have cash flow, I can look at the TRUTH of what we have and it
shifts the perspective so fast. We're never "broke". Our thing is;"we
can have everything we want" even when we don't see HOW it's going to
work. I don't want to hand down some "poor me" attitude to my kids, so
when money is tight (often) we talk about ways to get what we want!
Being creative IS a must for unschooling to work well.
~~~Deb Rossing mentioned that she wants a keyboard. She wasn't
"fishing" for one. She just mentioned it in passing on a list. I know
we have one somewhere in our house. (I still haven't found it, Deb.
I'll have Cameron look when he gets back!) But there's a real
possibility that Deb will have one in the next few weeks---just
because "someone" heard she wanted one.~~~
While you're looking around, could ya pull out a Canon XSI for me?;)
~~~We also often asked for memberships to zoos and museums here.
Season passes to things like the philharmonic, the town theatre, or
the ballet. That way the gift can *give* for a whole year. And it
always feels as if there's something to do that's "free." Plus, for
unschoolers, it makes the grandparents think that they are helping
with their grandchildren's meager education. <G>~~~
This is also something we've done many times. The Grandparents LOVE
buying the kids magazine subscriptions, or paying for gymnastics and
other things we couldn't afford at the time. They bought museum and
zoo passes. Very fun!
We've gotten very good at getting by with less. It's helped me learn a
lot about what I truly value. Mornings with a cuppa tea, kids
snuggling, baking some bread, walks and play in the yard, digging in
the garden...THIS is the good life.:) Seeds are cheap...grow
something. Exercise and exploring can be free. Libraries are free.
Getting together with friends is free/cheap. If you don't have
friends, find some. Create a group based on something you value (ie;
gentle parenting or unschooling or knitting or gardening or???) and
you'll find some new friends I bet.
~~~ Unschoolers have GREAT resources available to us now! I can't get
into that RUN.NING thang, but THAT would be a FANTASTIC place for a
bulletin board, of sorts. Ren? Laura? An "I need" and an "I have
available" board? Where folks could p
> ost what they need for their children?~~~GREAT idea!! I'll call Laura shortly to get that going. Awesome.
~~~I sent Ren's son, Jalen, a box of Spiderman stuff that Duncan
outgrew because we knew Jalen loved Spiderman.~~~
He still has many of them AND the clothing that Dunc passed on. He
loves hand-me-downs!! Our local homeschooling group often brings items
to pass on to our park days. The kids are SO cute digging through
clothes and trying stuff on. They all go home with a few new things.
Very cool.
I've mailed kids with a passion for fashion (ooh, that rhymes) some
makeup items in the past.
~~~Money shouldn't stand in the way of passion. I know that it
*can*---especially if we're not willing to take chances and ask for
help. But it doesn't HAVE to! Passion-sharers love to find each other!
Step out on the limb!~~~
Just agreeing with everything Kelly said here!:)
This list is a great resource if you need a creative boost! Post what
you want/need and watch the ideas come pouring in.
Ren
Ren Allen
--- In [email protected], "Professional Parenting"
<jarnall@...> wrote:
few months at a time to see what its like.
I think taking a class or two is different than being in school
full-time. I understand that an unschooler with the choice to be there
is a very different creature than a child compelled to be there, but
to call a person in school full-time an "Unschooler" seems very
misleading to me.
I don't care what people call themselves. But at this list, it could
be really confusing for people trying to understand the philosophy, to
call a person in school and unschooler. UN means "not".
Unschooling=Not schooling.
Ren
<jarnall@...> wrote:
>three of my children have floated in and out of various schools for a
> "When the kids want to try a school."
> I'm not sure about that. In ten years of homeschooling at least
few months at a time to see what its like.
I think taking a class or two is different than being in school
full-time. I understand that an unschooler with the choice to be there
is a very different creature than a child compelled to be there, but
to call a person in school full-time an "Unschooler" seems very
misleading to me.
I don't care what people call themselves. But at this list, it could
be really confusing for people trying to understand the philosophy, to
call a person in school and unschooler. UN means "not".
Unschooling=Not schooling.
Ren
balickgoodmanfamily
Kelly,
Here's some thoughts:
Most of our family joy comes from being together and discovering new
things. Where do you live? There are so many free resources:
libraries (books, movies, magazines), public parks, pet shelters, etc.
In our family, we strive to live simply and are always finding fun
and creative stuff to do together.
In addition, there are lots of things you can do to make money. Grown
ups can work from home. Parents can work with kids to do small
projects. Last year, we sold soap to family and friends and make
enough for the kids to start a savings account, buy a video game each,
and donate some to their favorite charity.
homeschooling group? I think having a support network is invaluable
for us. Our friends (both the kids and mine) have greatly helped our
homeschooling to thrive.
Here's some thoughts:
> From the anonymous OP:as possible?Â
>
> What can someone who is broke do to make their child's world as rich
Most of our family joy comes from being together and discovering new
things. Where do you live? There are so many free resources:
libraries (books, movies, magazines), public parks, pet shelters, etc.
In our family, we strive to live simply and are always finding fun
and creative stuff to do together.
In addition, there are lots of things you can do to make money. Grown
ups can work from home. Parents can work with kids to do small
projects. Last year, we sold soap to family and friends and make
enough for the kids to start a savings account, buy a video game each,
and donate some to their favorite charity.
>TX, etc...
>
> I also have no local friends...as you say, my best friends are in
>Where do you live? Is there an unschooling group in your area? Or a
homeschooling group? I think having a support network is invaluable
for us. Our friends (both the kids and mine) have greatly helped our
homeschooling to thrive.
>
> **************
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Faith Void
Ok, so I wrote Kelly and felt rather embarrassed about my feelings of
failure to provide. I ask her to write it anonymously. But I realize I
really need to face up to it honestly. It is scared but I am not going to
grow by hiding and being dis-honest. So�I need help and I got some great
stuff from all of you. I really appreciate it. It has really turned my view
around, back to where it needed to be, focused on my kids and the joy we
HAVE in our life. I wanted to talk about a few points that jumped out at me.
------------------------------------------
"My question in the early days (before we even unschooled) was always "how
will school be an answer?" or "how would school fix this situation?" It
never did. So we figured out that whatever issue we were dealing with was
simply LIFE and school wasn't going to "fix" anything for us.:)"
***Once I frame the question this way I see that school wouldn't help at
all.
--------------------------------------------
"Just wrote a blog post this morning, about being broke when Evan was
younger:
http://openheartedlife.blogspot.com/2008/12/christmas-tree-perspective.html"
***This was perfect. I love it. It is similar to how things have gone for
me. It really spoke to my heart. Thanks for your honesty and insight.
---------------------------------------------
"I accept what is. I stopped fighting reality. I stopped thinking we
*should* have more. I began taking responsibility - that was new! And that's
just in the past couple of years, I'm still learning about that. I realized
the most important THING I could give my kids is ME, and my unconditional
support for what they want."
***Yeah, I really need to do this. Sitting around feeling sorry for myself
(ok so I am not actually sitting around but metaphorically) isn't in anyway
meeting my children's needs. In fact it is stealing so much of my energy
that I could be spending time having fun with them. I don't HAVE TO feel
crappy. I don't have money, it just is. Thanks.
---------------------------------------------
"It's all a journey, and I'm not perfect by any means (hey, Kelly!), but my
kids KNOW I'm here for them. When I was a child, I stopped asking for what I
wanted, because we never had the money. I stopped dreaming. I saw my mom
spending over $100 a month on cigarettes, but we had to fight to get her to
buy our school yearbooks. She used money as an excuse, but really, it was
her unwillingness to support us that
"broke" us, her unhealed childhood."
***I cried when I read this. This was a part of my dysfunctional childhood
as well. I don't want to pack this in bags for my kids. I guess I am needing
to unpack and let go of some heavy stuff (fun, fun, fun). I *KNOW* that I
don't do this to my kids. I don't want to do anything else as a reaction to
having gone through that as a child. I don't want to feel like I don't
deserve things anymore. I want my kids to know that their needs are
important, I think that they do. We have a vision board and regularly find
ways to meet needs. It can be tricky but they feel taken seriously.
-----------------------------------------------
"I had to stop believing I was broke, and I started really appreciating what
we DO have."
***This is a huge struggle for me. I don't mind being poor. Really I don't.
It is the debt that gets me. It is not having enough to cover necessities.
It freaks me out. I do try (and am most successful) at focusing on what we
have and being grateful for that. My kids will occasionally remind me.
------------------------------------------------
"I can't get into that RUN.NING thang, but THAT would be a FANTASTIC place
for a bulletin board, of sorts. Ren? Laura? An "I need" and an "I have
available" board?"
***That is an awesome idea. I have been wanting my dh (a graphic
designer/web guy) to make me a site for that. A kind of paperback swap for
passions site. We hve too much on our plate right now so it hasn't happened.
But perhaps it could in the near future.
-----------------------------------------------------
"As many of you know, I don't buy into the popular "Law of Attraction." But
I *do* believe that, if you put your needs "out there," your needs will more
likely be met. Not letting others know what you need won't get you anything
any sooner!"
***I am glad you said this Kelly (and Ren). I hear this frequently and it
stresses me. I am a positive upbeat optimistic person. One would think I
would attract more of the same�I feel like a failure when some one asserts
that I just need to think positively and my life will be swell.
----------------------------------------------------
"Also, I think there's a big difference between stopping unschooling and
'giving up' on unschooling - "
***Great point. I can't imagine "Giving up" as I can't imagine living life
in a different way then we do.
---------------------------------------------------
"Check out the free local newspapers near the entrance to the grocery store
"
***Here is one of my biggest dilemmas. I live in a rural town. Population
500. We have a post office, dance studio (fundamental christian), a tavern,
a nursery and an over-priced deli (it serves the rail-trail clientele). Oh
and two churches. We are atheist/agnostic. We do not even have a community
playground, though the church seems ok with the kids playing there.
There is a small city (York PA) about 20 minutes drive, we frequently drive
to do things there. We live about an hour from Baltimore, MD, Lancaster, PA
and Harrisburg, PA. Which is great when we have money. We can find loads to
do in these cities, there are a variety of museums, shops, classes, etc. We
frequently do not have money to drive to any of those. Although we do have a
zoo pass and went there one day even though it was 40 degrees J It was fun.
So many times free stuff actually costs money in gas we don't have. That is
when I really feel crappy. My kids are cool with not getting new stuff, they
start to miss the experience stuff, kwim? They want to go to the science
center but it is $6 in gas that we don't have. That is my problem with
freecycle and Craig list. I typically can't drive to get stuff. Although I
am careful to try to combine trips (like pick up a gift when I go to the
grocery).
-----------------------------------------------
"Where do you live? Is there an unschooling group in your area? Or a
homeschooling group? "
***I love in South Central PA, 50 miles north of Baltimore MD. I have
started an unschoolers at our home. It really hasn't caught on yet so any
suggestions on how to make it successful would be great. The other group is
christian school-at-homers (you have to sign a statement of faith), so we
don't do activities with them. We have a couple families we are friends with
,one is on this group and the other is not an unschooling family.
I know a lot of people say "go make friends", HOW? I have no idea. I am not
good at it. And it seems like most people don't like me and my family. I
don't mean they don't like us and all just that we don't click, does that
make sense.
I am writing this for myself, to help clarify. We go to youth combat through
SCA twice a month (free). Dd12 has a monthly reading club at the library
(free). Dd12 has a daytime theater troupe that meets sporadically (free) she
wants more so she is going to more auditions (free or nominal odds and
ends), dd12 is training for a triathlon (not free-needs several things to be
able to train further and compete). We have the weekly RU hangout at our
house, � weeks at least one family shows up. Ds6 has WOW, that he plays
frequently. Ds12 volunteers at a cat rescue weekly (last week she got to
help with some vet tech work), there are occasional free activities my kids
are interested in at the state park nearby, we also have a zoo pass (zoo is
50 miles away). We have very infrequently playdates with our one non-ru
friends. My kids sometimes play with the neighborhood kids but notice a
difference they don't enjoy now that they are back in school.
I am not sure if this is enough. But perhaps it has to be since this *IS*
what we can do right now. I would LOVE suggestions on other options. Many
won't work now but could in the near future, when we have at least a little
bit of money to work with. In writing, I see that this is more than
adequate. Definitely better than school, especially because my kids don't
want to go. Except dd12 wants to go to a free school 50 miles away that
cost, even with scholarship 200 a month! I ask her that if we had 200 a
month extra would she rather spend that one fun stuff she wants to do like
karate lessons, etc or go to school. She said fun stuff. So I take that to
mean she is happier at home except for the money issues.
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
failure to provide. I ask her to write it anonymously. But I realize I
really need to face up to it honestly. It is scared but I am not going to
grow by hiding and being dis-honest. So�I need help and I got some great
stuff from all of you. I really appreciate it. It has really turned my view
around, back to where it needed to be, focused on my kids and the joy we
HAVE in our life. I wanted to talk about a few points that jumped out at me.
------------------------------------------
"My question in the early days (before we even unschooled) was always "how
will school be an answer?" or "how would school fix this situation?" It
never did. So we figured out that whatever issue we were dealing with was
simply LIFE and school wasn't going to "fix" anything for us.:)"
***Once I frame the question this way I see that school wouldn't help at
all.
--------------------------------------------
"Just wrote a blog post this morning, about being broke when Evan was
younger:
http://openheartedlife.blogspot.com/2008/12/christmas-tree-perspective.html"
***This was perfect. I love it. It is similar to how things have gone for
me. It really spoke to my heart. Thanks for your honesty and insight.
---------------------------------------------
"I accept what is. I stopped fighting reality. I stopped thinking we
*should* have more. I began taking responsibility - that was new! And that's
just in the past couple of years, I'm still learning about that. I realized
the most important THING I could give my kids is ME, and my unconditional
support for what they want."
***Yeah, I really need to do this. Sitting around feeling sorry for myself
(ok so I am not actually sitting around but metaphorically) isn't in anyway
meeting my children's needs. In fact it is stealing so much of my energy
that I could be spending time having fun with them. I don't HAVE TO feel
crappy. I don't have money, it just is. Thanks.
---------------------------------------------
"It's all a journey, and I'm not perfect by any means (hey, Kelly!), but my
kids KNOW I'm here for them. When I was a child, I stopped asking for what I
wanted, because we never had the money. I stopped dreaming. I saw my mom
spending over $100 a month on cigarettes, but we had to fight to get her to
buy our school yearbooks. She used money as an excuse, but really, it was
her unwillingness to support us that
"broke" us, her unhealed childhood."
***I cried when I read this. This was a part of my dysfunctional childhood
as well. I don't want to pack this in bags for my kids. I guess I am needing
to unpack and let go of some heavy stuff (fun, fun, fun). I *KNOW* that I
don't do this to my kids. I don't want to do anything else as a reaction to
having gone through that as a child. I don't want to feel like I don't
deserve things anymore. I want my kids to know that their needs are
important, I think that they do. We have a vision board and regularly find
ways to meet needs. It can be tricky but they feel taken seriously.
-----------------------------------------------
"I had to stop believing I was broke, and I started really appreciating what
we DO have."
***This is a huge struggle for me. I don't mind being poor. Really I don't.
It is the debt that gets me. It is not having enough to cover necessities.
It freaks me out. I do try (and am most successful) at focusing on what we
have and being grateful for that. My kids will occasionally remind me.
------------------------------------------------
"I can't get into that RUN.NING thang, but THAT would be a FANTASTIC place
for a bulletin board, of sorts. Ren? Laura? An "I need" and an "I have
available" board?"
***That is an awesome idea. I have been wanting my dh (a graphic
designer/web guy) to make me a site for that. A kind of paperback swap for
passions site. We hve too much on our plate right now so it hasn't happened.
But perhaps it could in the near future.
-----------------------------------------------------
"As many of you know, I don't buy into the popular "Law of Attraction." But
I *do* believe that, if you put your needs "out there," your needs will more
likely be met. Not letting others know what you need won't get you anything
any sooner!"
***I am glad you said this Kelly (and Ren). I hear this frequently and it
stresses me. I am a positive upbeat optimistic person. One would think I
would attract more of the same�I feel like a failure when some one asserts
that I just need to think positively and my life will be swell.
----------------------------------------------------
"Also, I think there's a big difference between stopping unschooling and
'giving up' on unschooling - "
***Great point. I can't imagine "Giving up" as I can't imagine living life
in a different way then we do.
---------------------------------------------------
"Check out the free local newspapers near the entrance to the grocery store
"
***Here is one of my biggest dilemmas. I live in a rural town. Population
500. We have a post office, dance studio (fundamental christian), a tavern,
a nursery and an over-priced deli (it serves the rail-trail clientele). Oh
and two churches. We are atheist/agnostic. We do not even have a community
playground, though the church seems ok with the kids playing there.
There is a small city (York PA) about 20 minutes drive, we frequently drive
to do things there. We live about an hour from Baltimore, MD, Lancaster, PA
and Harrisburg, PA. Which is great when we have money. We can find loads to
do in these cities, there are a variety of museums, shops, classes, etc. We
frequently do not have money to drive to any of those. Although we do have a
zoo pass and went there one day even though it was 40 degrees J It was fun.
So many times free stuff actually costs money in gas we don't have. That is
when I really feel crappy. My kids are cool with not getting new stuff, they
start to miss the experience stuff, kwim? They want to go to the science
center but it is $6 in gas that we don't have. That is my problem with
freecycle and Craig list. I typically can't drive to get stuff. Although I
am careful to try to combine trips (like pick up a gift when I go to the
grocery).
-----------------------------------------------
"Where do you live? Is there an unschooling group in your area? Or a
homeschooling group? "
***I love in South Central PA, 50 miles north of Baltimore MD. I have
started an unschoolers at our home. It really hasn't caught on yet so any
suggestions on how to make it successful would be great. The other group is
christian school-at-homers (you have to sign a statement of faith), so we
don't do activities with them. We have a couple families we are friends with
,one is on this group and the other is not an unschooling family.
I know a lot of people say "go make friends", HOW? I have no idea. I am not
good at it. And it seems like most people don't like me and my family. I
don't mean they don't like us and all just that we don't click, does that
make sense.
I am writing this for myself, to help clarify. We go to youth combat through
SCA twice a month (free). Dd12 has a monthly reading club at the library
(free). Dd12 has a daytime theater troupe that meets sporadically (free) she
wants more so she is going to more auditions (free or nominal odds and
ends), dd12 is training for a triathlon (not free-needs several things to be
able to train further and compete). We have the weekly RU hangout at our
house, � weeks at least one family shows up. Ds6 has WOW, that he plays
frequently. Ds12 volunteers at a cat rescue weekly (last week she got to
help with some vet tech work), there are occasional free activities my kids
are interested in at the state park nearby, we also have a zoo pass (zoo is
50 miles away). We have very infrequently playdates with our one non-ru
friends. My kids sometimes play with the neighborhood kids but notice a
difference they don't enjoy now that they are back in school.
I am not sure if this is enough. But perhaps it has to be since this *IS*
what we can do right now. I would LOVE suggestions on other options. Many
won't work now but could in the near future, when we have at least a little
bit of money to work with. In writing, I see that this is more than
adequate. Definitely better than school, especially because my kids don't
want to go. Except dd12 wants to go to a free school 50 miles away that
cost, even with scholarship 200 a month! I ask her that if we had 200 a
month extra would she rather spend that one fun stuff she wants to do like
karate lessons, etc or go to school. She said fun stuff. So I take that to
mean she is happier at home except for the money issues.
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~dd12 is training for a triathlon (not free-needs several things to be
able to train further and compete). ~~
Like what? Dh and I competed in triathlon years ago. He still bikes
and I'm going to start running again but I think we're both done with
triathlon. The swim part is pretty cheap or free usually, if you have
a public pool nearby. The running costs a pair of shoes and I find
some serious deals on that. I found the bike to be our biggest
challenge. Is that what he needs right now? I trained on a cheap
mountain bike for months before I ever bought a road bike. The
training can be done for next to nothing really, if you just use a
regular bike found at a garage sale.
Going to the next level can wait a while. But Laura is starting the
barter/swap thing at R.U.N. so post this over there and let people
know what he needs!!:)
Ren
able to train further and compete). ~~
Like what? Dh and I competed in triathlon years ago. He still bikes
and I'm going to start running again but I think we're both done with
triathlon. The swim part is pretty cheap or free usually, if you have
a public pool nearby. The running costs a pair of shoes and I find
some serious deals on that. I found the bike to be our biggest
challenge. Is that what he needs right now? I trained on a cheap
mountain bike for months before I ever bought a road bike. The
training can be done for next to nothing really, if you just use a
regular bike found at a garage sale.
Going to the next level can wait a while. But Laura is starting the
barter/swap thing at R.U.N. so post this over there and let people
know what he needs!!:)
Ren
Faith Void
SHE...{wink} Yeah she actually needs shoes that are suitable for running.
Right now she runs in her converse but they hurt her feet. She has a bmx
style bike from a garage sale but we are looking for a decent road bike her
size (she just shot up again and is 5'4"!) The swimming was easier when it
was warm :-) I just found a nearby Y that we might be able to talk her g'ma
into paying for her membership (or maybe a family one). Things are
definatley in the works, as in we are moving towards her goals. And who
knows they could change.
Maybe you could email me some tips for her training. We just did a google
search and found some stuff. It was a random idea I brought up one day when
she was telling me her fave things to do...biking, swimming, running, etc.
I am excited about the RUN swap.
thanks
Faith
Right now she runs in her converse but they hurt her feet. She has a bmx
style bike from a garage sale but we are looking for a decent road bike her
size (she just shot up again and is 5'4"!) The swimming was easier when it
was warm :-) I just found a nearby Y that we might be able to talk her g'ma
into paying for her membership (or maybe a family one). Things are
definatley in the works, as in we are moving towards her goals. And who
knows they could change.
Maybe you could email me some tips for her training. We just did a google
search and found some stuff. It was a random idea I brought up one day when
she was telling me her fave things to do...biking, swimming, running, etc.
I am excited about the RUN swap.
thanks
Faith
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:19 PM, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>wrote:
> ~~dd12 is training for a triathlon (not free-needs several things to be
> able to train further and compete). ~~
>
> Like what? Dh and I competed in triathlon years ago. He still bikes
> and I'm going to start running again but I think we're both done with
> triathlon. The swim part is pretty cheap or free usually, if you have
> a public pool nearby. The running costs a pair of shoes and I find
> some serious deals on that. I found the bike to be our biggest
> challenge. Is that what he needs right now? I trained on a cheap
> mountain bike for months before I ever bought a road bike. The
> training can be done for next to nothing really, if you just use a
> regular bike found at a garage sale.
>
> Going to the next level can wait a while. But Laura is starting the
> barter/swap thing at R.U.N. so post this over there and let people
> know what he needs!!:)
>
> Ren
>
>
>
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Faith, look for groups of people that train for triathlon of just cycling. Maybe a local bike store where the owner s involved in races etc.
They may get interested and help her find a cheap bike or a loaner, shoes and a helmet.
One of our local bike shop is great and the owner is super involved and a peach.
When DH went to France to compete in a World Duathlon he was super supportive and even took care of preparing the bike for free.
The YMCA also gives out youth membership for kids that need and cannot afford. Ask your local Y about it.
Good luck!
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
________________________________
From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 9:27:41 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Giving up on unschooling
SHE...{wink} Yeah she actually needs shoes that are suitable for running.
Right now she runs in her converse but they hurt her feet. She has a bmx
style bike from a garage sale but we are looking for a decent road bike her
size (she just shot up again and is 5'4"!) The swimming was easier when it
was warm :-) I just found a nearby Y that we might be able to talk her g'ma
into paying for her membership (or maybe a family one). Things are
definatley in the works, as in we are moving towards her goals. And who
knows they could change.
Maybe you could email me some tips for her training. We just did a google
search and found some stuff. It was a random idea I brought up one day when
she was telling me her fave things to do...biking, swimming, running, etc.
I am excited about the RUN swap.
thanks
Faith
They may get interested and help her find a cheap bike or a loaner, shoes and a helmet.
One of our local bike shop is great and the owner is super involved and a peach.
When DH went to France to compete in a World Duathlon he was super supportive and even took care of preparing the bike for free.
The YMCA also gives out youth membership for kids that need and cannot afford. Ask your local Y about it.
Good luck!
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
________________________________
From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 9:27:41 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Giving up on unschooling
SHE...{wink} Yeah she actually needs shoes that are suitable for running.
Right now she runs in her converse but they hurt her feet. She has a bmx
style bike from a garage sale but we are looking for a decent road bike her
size (she just shot up again and is 5'4"!) The swimming was easier when it
was warm :-) I just found a nearby Y that we might be able to talk her g'ma
into paying for her membership (or maybe a family one). Things are
definatley in the works, as in we are moving towards her goals. And who
knows they could change.
Maybe you could email me some tips for her training. We just did a google
search and found some stuff. It was a random idea I brought up one day when
she was telling me her fave things to do...biking, swimming, running, etc.
I am excited about the RUN swap.
thanks
Faith
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:19 PM, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@ comcast.net>wrote:
> ~~dd12 is training for a triathlon (not free-needs several things to be
> able to train further and compete). ~~
>
> Like what? Dh and I competed in triathlon years ago. He still bikes
> and I'm going to start running again but I think we're both done with
> triathlon. The swim part is pretty cheap or free usually, if you have
> a public pool nearby. The running costs a pair of shoes and I find
> some serious deals on that. I found the bike to be our biggest
> challenge. Is that what he needs right now? I trained on a cheap
> mountain bike for months before I ever bought a road bike. The
> training can be done for next to nothing really, if you just use a
> regular bike found at a garage sale.
>
> Going to the next level can wait a while. But Laura is starting the
> barter/swap thing at R.U.N. so post this over there and let people
> know what he needs!!:)
>
> Ren
>
>
>
--
http://faithvoid. blogspot. com/
www.bearthmama. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
In our area the Y does discounts but never free, unless this is new. My kids
were in their gymnastics program until they leveled up to competition and
were no longer interested. But we had to pay the reduced amount of $40 a
month (instead of $80). And we were in their lowest income bracket. We are
working on a membership but can't do 40 a month just now.
I really like the bike shop idea. I might even go to Baltimore for that. I
helped start an independent cycle shop that refurbished bikes for re-sale
when I lived there. Maybe they'd sponsor her...hmmm. Got me thinking on this
one. The bike training is easy enough once we get the bike. I have one and I
love to ride (just throw the little ones in the trailer!) Biking is a fave
family activity.
A training group, hmmm. How does one go about looking for one? This sounds
pretty cool as dd is a people person. I am sure she would enjoy training
with others. As it is she has to train by herself because I can't run with
her, I only have a pair of keen sandals and my bike needs a little work in
order to run again.
I am having a really had time with the rural living in this area. I have
lived rurally before and loved it. There is not a lot of interesting,
active, intelligent people in the area. I have lived here 2 years and have
had a super hard time finding people. I have found 2 families we get on with
and I am still looking, I am even a LLL leader. Surprisingly I have met no
one because of that. There really isn't local anything. This is my problem.
I have recently decided that I just don't like it here. I feel like i have
given it a good go but it sucks. My dh doesn't like it any better, he has no
friends here either. I'd love to move but he is "stuck" in his job (his
thoughts). I guess unsticking dh thoughs could be a whole nother post for a
whole nother group :-)
I love everyones ideas. I can feel the shifting going one. Please keep them
coming. I am sure I can figure this out. I am really loving the help.
Faith
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:57 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <
polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
were in their gymnastics program until they leveled up to competition and
were no longer interested. But we had to pay the reduced amount of $40 a
month (instead of $80). And we were in their lowest income bracket. We are
working on a membership but can't do 40 a month just now.
I really like the bike shop idea. I might even go to Baltimore for that. I
helped start an independent cycle shop that refurbished bikes for re-sale
when I lived there. Maybe they'd sponsor her...hmmm. Got me thinking on this
one. The bike training is easy enough once we get the bike. I have one and I
love to ride (just throw the little ones in the trailer!) Biking is a fave
family activity.
A training group, hmmm. How does one go about looking for one? This sounds
pretty cool as dd is a people person. I am sure she would enjoy training
with others. As it is she has to train by herself because I can't run with
her, I only have a pair of keen sandals and my bike needs a little work in
order to run again.
I am having a really had time with the rural living in this area. I have
lived rurally before and loved it. There is not a lot of interesting,
active, intelligent people in the area. I have lived here 2 years and have
had a super hard time finding people. I have found 2 families we get on with
and I am still looking, I am even a LLL leader. Surprisingly I have met no
one because of that. There really isn't local anything. This is my problem.
I have recently decided that I just don't like it here. I feel like i have
given it a good go but it sucks. My dh doesn't like it any better, he has no
friends here either. I'd love to move but he is "stuck" in his job (his
thoughts). I guess unsticking dh thoughs could be a whole nother post for a
whole nother group :-)
I love everyones ideas. I can feel the shifting going one. Please keep them
coming. I am sure I can figure this out. I am really loving the help.
Faith
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:57 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <
polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
> Faith, look for groups of people that train for triathlon of--
> just cycling. Maybe a local bike store where the owner s involved in races
> etc.
> They may get interested and help her find a cheap bike or a loaner, shoes
> and a helmet.
> One of our local bike shop is great and the owner is super involved and a
> peach.
> When DH went to France to compete in a World Duathlon he was super
> supportive and even took care of preparing the bike for free.
>
> The YMCA also gives out youth membership for kids that need and cannot
> afford. Ask your local Y about it.
> Good luck!
>
>
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
>"Check out the free local newspapers near the entrance to the grocerystore
Yeah, but you DO go to some grocery store somewhere once or twice per
month, no? Every chain grocery I can think of has those "event" type
papers near the front door plus a community bulletin board area and even
the food co-op we shop at (vegetarian/vegan, mostly local and/or organic
foods) has postings of local events and such.
Sure, gas costs are an issue but if you are at the grocery store anyhow,
you might be able to find some resources to explore/investigate and then
you could all sit down and look at the options: we've got a, b, and c
going already and I noticed that x and y are coming up in the next town
next month. X and y are free events but it'd cost us z in gas to get
there and back. We could save the money for gas by <whatever>. What do
you think?" Just as you did with your DD choosing between the fun stuff
and the place 50 miles away.
And, even if you don't quite 'click' for a longer term relationship type
get together situation with folks, it might be possible to arrange to
carpool to some things and split the cost of gas (thereby lowering how
much it takes to get to the free stuff). After all, most of the folks in
town are in the same boat in regard to getting to the zoo or wherever.
For that matter, if your zoo passes come with a "bring a guest" option
(our aquarium membership has that, we can bring 1 or 2 guests each time
we go, depends on which membership we could get when we renew each year)
you could offer free admission for someone in exchange for
transportation (and since most admission prices run in the $6 or more
range, and the gas is maybe $6 round trip, someone is getting a
bargain).
Deb R
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Faith Void
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Debra Rossing <debra.rossing@...
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> wrote:--
> >
>
>
> Deb R
>
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>
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http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
"Check out the free local newspapers near the entrance to the grocery
store
Yeah, but you DO go to some grocery store somewhere once or twice per
month, no?
***I do. I go to a discount store. A local not chain, usually.
------------------------------------------------
Every chain grocery I can think of has those "event" type
papers near the front door plus a community bulletin board area and even
the food co-op we shop at (vegetarian/vegan, mostly local and/or organic
foods) has postings of local events and such.
***We have a Children's paper for our county but nothing within a reasonable
distance and typical very few things my kids are interested in any way. We
have a huge school at home community here. But it is very religious.
----------------------------------------------
Sure, gas costs are an issue but if you are at the grocery store anyhow,
you might be able to find some resources to explore/investigate and then
you could all sit down and look at the options: we've got a, b, and c
going already and I noticed that x and y are coming up in the next town
next month. X and y are free events but it'd cost us z in gas to get
there and back. We could save the money for gas by <whatever>. What do
you think?" Just as you did with your DD choosing between the fun stuff
and the place 50 miles away.
***The choice was hypothetical she didn't actually get any cool stuff. I do
however get what you are saying. We do that.
like tonight dh will drive E to youth combat and M to an audition. We will
likely pick up an additional kid for each activity. If we had grocery money
I would come along to grocery shop.
------------------------------------------------------
And, even if you don't quite 'click' for a longer term relationship type
get together situation with folks, it might be possible to arrange to
carpool to some things and split the cost of gas (thereby lowering how
much it takes to get to the free stuff). After all, most of the folks in
town are in the same boat in regard to getting to the zoo or wherever.
For that matter, if your zoo passes come with a "bring a guest" option
(our aquarium membership has that, we can bring 1 or 2 guests each time
we go, depends on which membership we could get when we renew each year)
you could offer free admission for someone in exchange for
transportation (and since most admission prices run in the $6 or more
range, and the gas is maybe $6 round trip, someone is getting a
bargain).
***this is where having friends would come in handy :-) Also having a
vehicle that fit more than are family. We have had to take my ds out of a
car seat just so dd can fit in. Its a tough situation. I do invite the two
families I am friends with to many things. rarely do they want to go.
what am i doing wrong?
faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
store
Yeah, but you DO go to some grocery store somewhere once or twice per
month, no?
***I do. I go to a discount store. A local not chain, usually.
------------------------------------------------
Every chain grocery I can think of has those "event" type
papers near the front door plus a community bulletin board area and even
the food co-op we shop at (vegetarian/vegan, mostly local and/or organic
foods) has postings of local events and such.
***We have a Children's paper for our county but nothing within a reasonable
distance and typical very few things my kids are interested in any way. We
have a huge school at home community here. But it is very religious.
----------------------------------------------
Sure, gas costs are an issue but if you are at the grocery store anyhow,
you might be able to find some resources to explore/investigate and then
you could all sit down and look at the options: we've got a, b, and c
going already and I noticed that x and y are coming up in the next town
next month. X and y are free events but it'd cost us z in gas to get
there and back. We could save the money for gas by <whatever>. What do
you think?" Just as you did with your DD choosing between the fun stuff
and the place 50 miles away.
***The choice was hypothetical she didn't actually get any cool stuff. I do
however get what you are saying. We do that.
like tonight dh will drive E to youth combat and M to an audition. We will
likely pick up an additional kid for each activity. If we had grocery money
I would come along to grocery shop.
------------------------------------------------------
And, even if you don't quite 'click' for a longer term relationship type
get together situation with folks, it might be possible to arrange to
carpool to some things and split the cost of gas (thereby lowering how
much it takes to get to the free stuff). After all, most of the folks in
town are in the same boat in regard to getting to the zoo or wherever.
For that matter, if your zoo passes come with a "bring a guest" option
(our aquarium membership has that, we can bring 1 or 2 guests each time
we go, depends on which membership we could get when we renew each year)
you could offer free admission for someone in exchange for
transportation (and since most admission prices run in the $6 or more
range, and the gas is maybe $6 round trip, someone is getting a
bargain).
***this is where having friends would come in handy :-) Also having a
vehicle that fit more than are family. We have had to take my ds out of a
car seat just so dd can fit in. Its a tough situation. I do invite the two
families I am friends with to many things. rarely do they want to go.
what am i doing wrong?
faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
Would it be possible to move one town in any direction - not too far
commute-wise but still maybe someplace with a little more of what it is
you are looking for? That way DH won't have to leave his job (with all
the stresses that that entails) but you might find a more amenable
community atmosphere. Maybe make a list of the things y'all are looking
for (book clubs, discussion groups, youth activities, whatever like
that) then check with the towns within, say 15 miles of where you are.
If York is 20 minutes away, maybe split the difference and look at
someplace half way so that it's easier to get there.
BTW my DH spent a good chunk of his growing up years across the river in
Conestoga, PA - much of the time while they lived there, both of his
parents were out of work. They lived mostly off of what they could grow
in the garden, the eggs their chickens laid, bartering extra eggs with
neighbors and/or selling them for cash and butchering a chicken
occasionally (plus WIC and the occasional sack of groceries from local
food pantries). They had very little money but DH says that was his
favorite time growing up (except for school which was a nightmare for
him there, lots of bullying and such). Most of his favorite
stories/memories are from that time.
Deb R
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commute-wise but still maybe someplace with a little more of what it is
you are looking for? That way DH won't have to leave his job (with all
the stresses that that entails) but you might find a more amenable
community atmosphere. Maybe make a list of the things y'all are looking
for (book clubs, discussion groups, youth activities, whatever like
that) then check with the towns within, say 15 miles of where you are.
If York is 20 minutes away, maybe split the difference and look at
someplace half way so that it's easier to get there.
BTW my DH spent a good chunk of his growing up years across the river in
Conestoga, PA - much of the time while they lived there, both of his
parents were out of work. They lived mostly off of what they could grow
in the garden, the eggs their chickens laid, bartering extra eggs with
neighbors and/or selling them for cash and butchering a chicken
occasionally (plus WIC and the occasional sack of groceries from local
food pantries). They had very little money but DH says that was his
favorite time growing up (except for school which was a nightmare for
him there, lots of bullying and such). Most of his favorite
stories/memories are from that time.
Deb R
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are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
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Professional Parenting
I think that perhaps un-schooling needs a wider definition. Because "school" transcends physical boundaries in Alberta, school here can mean online and correspondance also which are two areas that some people think are
"homeschooling" but are not. When I, other parents and the government admin types use the word, school, we mean it to be "teacher directed" which means the teacher does the planning, delivering and marking. In Alberta, many students do not attend a school but are certainly not self-directed. So, even unschooling doesn't fit. "Learner directed" means the learner decides the plan, self delivers or acquires the knowledge and evaluates their progress. I rather like those terms better then "schooling" and "unschooling" because they are more clearer on who is in the drivers seat. Even though they attend a school, my kids are clearly in the drivers seat of their education plan, but I can understand how confusing this can all be to people!
Warm wishes,
Judy
Judy Arnall, Peaceful Parenting, Family and Relationship Expert, Speaker (Professional Member of CAPS) and Author of "Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring, responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery" www.professionalparenting.ca Tele: (403) 714-6766 Email jarnall@... "Peace In The World Begins In The Home"
"homeschooling" but are not. When I, other parents and the government admin types use the word, school, we mean it to be "teacher directed" which means the teacher does the planning, delivering and marking. In Alberta, many students do not attend a school but are certainly not self-directed. So, even unschooling doesn't fit. "Learner directed" means the learner decides the plan, self delivers or acquires the knowledge and evaluates their progress. I rather like those terms better then "schooling" and "unschooling" because they are more clearer on who is in the drivers seat. Even though they attend a school, my kids are clearly in the drivers seat of their education plan, but I can understand how confusing this can all be to people!
Warm wishes,
Judy
Judy Arnall, Peaceful Parenting, Family and Relationship Expert, Speaker (Professional Member of CAPS) and Author of "Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring, responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery" www.professionalparenting.ca Tele: (403) 714-6766 Email jarnall@... "Peace In The World Begins In The Home"
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:16 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Giving up on unschooling
--- In [email protected], "Professional Parenting"
<jarnall@...> wrote:
>
> "When the kids want to try a school."
> I'm not sure about that. In ten years of homeschooling at least
three of my children have floated in and out of various schools for a
few months at a time to see what its like.
I think taking a class or two is different than being in school
full-time. I understand that an unschooler with the choice to be there
is a very different creature than a child compelled to be there, but
to call a person in school full-time an "Unschooler" seems very
misleading to me.
I don't care what people call themselves. But at this list, it could
be really confusing for people trying to understand the philosophy, to
call a person in school and unschooler. UN means "not".
Unschooling=Not schooling.
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janna Beth Ryan
Kelly, I'm so glad you mentioned this - I've been thinking about this much needed resources for awhile. I've been working on this type of idea for the community we live in (but, keeping it local and easy for people in a very close mile radius). Can I connect with Laura &/or Ren about this idea - I might have something to contribute (idea wise).
Thanks for bringing it up. Ironically, yesterday I was just pondering how I could get my daughter a nintendo DS and thought of trading my Champion Juicer for one. The idea of bartering and trading is so appealing - everybody wins and no worries about needing cash.
I appreciate all of everyones great ideas on this topic. It is so helpful.
Janna
"If your child were to want a.......keyboard, for example <G>, put the word out there. Someone you know has one gathering dust somewhere. Unschoolers have GREAT resources available to us now! I can't get into that RUN.NING thang, but THAT would be a FANTASTIC place for a bulletin board, of sorts. Ren? Laura? An "I need" and an "I have available" board? Where folks could post what they need for their children?"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for bringing it up. Ironically, yesterday I was just pondering how I could get my daughter a nintendo DS and thought of trading my Champion Juicer for one. The idea of bartering and trading is so appealing - everybody wins and no worries about needing cash.
I appreciate all of everyones great ideas on this topic. It is so helpful.
Janna
"If your child were to want a.......keyboard, for example <G>, put the word out there. Someone you know has one gathering dust somewhere. Unschoolers have GREAT resources available to us now! I can't get into that RUN.NING thang, but THAT would be a FANTASTIC place for a bulletin board, of sorts. Ren? Laura? An "I need" and an "I have available" board? Where folks could post what they need for their children?"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Beth Fleming
MAny of the people at our Y are on scholarship....and we got a family membership, which is usually a LOT, with a 200$ rebate from our health plan and a discount b/c my husband is a campus minister ("clergy" get a 150$ discount)....there are also many low income scholarships available.
Beth
________________________________
From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:57:06 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Giving up on unschooling
Faith, look for groups of people that train for triathlon of just cycling. Maybe a local bike store where the owner s involved in races etc.
They may get interested and help her find a cheap bike or a loaner, shoes and a helmet.
One of our local bike shop is great and the owner is super involved and a peach.
When DH went to France to compete in a World Duathlon he was super supportive and even took care of preparing the bike for free.
The YMCA also gives out youth membership for kids that need and cannot afford. Ask your local Y about it.
Good luck!
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow. blogspot. com/
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/unschoolin gmn/
____________ _________ _________ __
From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@ gmail.com>
To: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 9:27:41 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Giving up on unschooling
SHE...{wink} Yeah she actually needs shoes that are suitable for running.
Right now she runs in her converse but they hurt her feet. She has a bmx
style bike from a garage sale but we are looking for a decent road bike her
size (she just shot up again and is 5'4"!) The swimming was easier when it
was warm :-) I just found a nearby Y that we might be able to talk her g'ma
into paying for her membership (or maybe a family one). Things are
definatley in the works, as in we are moving towards her goals. And who
knows they could change.
Maybe you could email me some tips for her training. We just did a google
search and found some stuff. It was a random idea I brought up one day when
she was telling me her fave things to do...biking, swimming, running, etc.
I am excited about the RUN swap.
thanks
Faith
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:19 PM, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@ comcast.net> wrote:
> ~~dd12 is training for a triathlon (not free-needs several things to be
> able to train further and compete). ~~
>
> Like what? Dh and I competed in triathlon years ago. He still bikes
> and I'm going to start running again but I think we're both done with
> triathlon. The swim part is pretty cheap or free usually, if you have
> a public pool nearby. The running costs a pair of shoes and I find
> some serious deals on that. I found the bike to be our biggest
> challenge. Is that what he needs right now? I trained on a cheap
> mountain bike for months before I ever bought a road bike. The
> training can be done for next to nothing really, if you just use a
> regular bike found at a garage sale.
>
> Going to the next level can wait a while. But Laura is starting the
> barter/swap thing at R.U.N. so post this over there and let people
> know what he needs!!:)
>
> Ren
>
>
>
--
http://faithvoid. blogspot. com/
www.bearthmama. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Beth Fleming
There's an Earn-A-Bike Program in our city (Worcester, MA) that I've heard great things about...I googled it and it lookes like a national program. http://www.ibike.org/encouragement/youth.htm
Beth
________________________________
From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Giving up on unschooling
In our area the Y does discounts but never free, unless this is new. My kids
were in their gymnastics program until they leveled up to competition and
were no longer interested. But we had to pay the reduced amount of $40 a
month (instead of $80). And we were in their lowest income bracket. We are
working on a membership but can't do 40 a month just now.
I really like the bike shop idea. I might even go to Baltimore for that. I
helped start an independent cycle shop that refurbished bikes for re-sale
when I lived there. Maybe they'd sponsor her...hmmm. Got me thinking on this
one. The bike training is easy enough once we get the bike. I have one and I
love to ride (just throw the little ones in the trailer!) Biking is a fave
family activity.
A training group, hmmm. How does one go about looking for one? This sounds
pretty cool as dd is a people person. I am sure she would enjoy training
with others. As it is she has to train by herself because I can't run with
her, I only have a pair of keen sandals and my bike needs a little work in
order to run again.
I am having a really had time with the rural living in this area. I have
lived rurally before and loved it. There is not a lot of interesting,
active, intelligent people in the area. I have lived here 2 years and have
had a super hard time finding people. I have found 2 families we get on with
and I am still looking, I am even a LLL leader. Surprisingly I have met no
one because of that. There really isn't local anything. This is my problem.
I have recently decided that I just don't like it here. I feel like i have
given it a good go but it sucks. My dh doesn't like it any better, he has no
friends here either. I'd love to move but he is "stuck" in his job (his
thoughts). I guess unsticking dh thoughs could be a whole nother post for a
whole nother group :-)
I love everyones ideas. I can feel the shifting going one. Please keep them
coming. I am sure I can figure this out. I am really loving the help.
Faith
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:57 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <
polykowholsteins@ yahoo.com> wrote:
> Faith, look for groups of people that train for triathlon of--
> just cycling. Maybe a local bike store where the owner s involved in races
> etc.
> They may get interested and help her find a cheap bike or a loaner, shoes
> and a helmet.
> One of our local bike shop is great and the owner is super involved and a
> peach.
> When DH went to France to compete in a World Duathlon he was super
> supportive and even took care of preparing the bike for free.
>
> The YMCA also gives out youth membership for kids that need and cannot
> afford. Ask your local Y about it.
> Good luck!
>
>
http://faithvoid. blogspot. com/
www.bearthmama. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]