My first week unschooling so far...
c3_2323
And as ridiculous as it sounds, I think I'm having withdrawal. I
know, I said it was ridiculous.
I'm feeling like maybe I didn't research this enough (so me), as I
loathe reading off of websites. I've certainly done some, but I am so
nervous.
So far he has chosen only to watch TV and that is so hard for me.
Yesterday, he came over to where I was working (I volunteer for a
couple of organizations), and started leafing through the basket of
books next to me. I asked if he wanted to read one of the Magic
Treehouse books together, and he said yes. I immediately stopped what
I was doing (something I'm not always good at), went over and sat with
him to read. He grabs the remote and says "you read, I'll watch".
Well, after my youngest, who is not feeling well, had fallen asleep
and woken up almost immediately, my tone was harsh even though I
didn't mean it to be. The voice in my head was reminding me that this
was not the way to handle it and I did catch myself, but I could tell
he felt badly.
Ugh. I am hoping today that he will want to go out and gather some
materials for some projects we've been talking about, but I want to be
okay if he says no. I just panic a bit that maybe he'll only watch TV
and truth be told, with how my district is, I'm afraid of consequences
from the district. I'm pretty stressed about it, actually. I do live
in NY, btw, which I saw someone had posted was a difficult state to
unschool in (I think that this was on another list though).
Feedback appreciated,
Christie
know, I said it was ridiculous.
I'm feeling like maybe I didn't research this enough (so me), as I
loathe reading off of websites. I've certainly done some, but I am so
nervous.
So far he has chosen only to watch TV and that is so hard for me.
Yesterday, he came over to where I was working (I volunteer for a
couple of organizations), and started leafing through the basket of
books next to me. I asked if he wanted to read one of the Magic
Treehouse books together, and he said yes. I immediately stopped what
I was doing (something I'm not always good at), went over and sat with
him to read. He grabs the remote and says "you read, I'll watch".
Well, after my youngest, who is not feeling well, had fallen asleep
and woken up almost immediately, my tone was harsh even though I
didn't mean it to be. The voice in my head was reminding me that this
was not the way to handle it and I did catch myself, but I could tell
he felt badly.
Ugh. I am hoping today that he will want to go out and gather some
materials for some projects we've been talking about, but I want to be
okay if he says no. I just panic a bit that maybe he'll only watch TV
and truth be told, with how my district is, I'm afraid of consequences
from the district. I'm pretty stressed about it, actually. I do live
in NY, btw, which I saw someone had posted was a difficult state to
unschool in (I think that this was on another list though).
Feedback appreciated,
Christie
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 29, 2008, at 8:37 AM, c3_2323 wrote:
partners and friends) up to fail.
If you must expect, expect him to watch TV ;-)
If you're not on a NY list for unschoolers, do find one as soon as
possible. I know loads of NY unschoolers have gone through a
deschooling period with TV watching and video game playing. Find out
how they worked that into their reports. Information is the best cure
for fear.
Go here: http://sandradodd.com/world
Scroll down. The United States lists are at the bottom.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am hoping today that he will want to go out and gather someExpectations can be relationship killers. They can set kids (and
> materials for some projects we've been talking about
partners and friends) up to fail.
If you must expect, expect him to watch TV ;-)
If you're not on a NY list for unschoolers, do find one as soon as
possible. I know loads of NY unschoolers have gone through a
deschooling period with TV watching and video game playing. Find out
how they worked that into their reports. Information is the best cure
for fear.
Go here: http://sandradodd.com/world
Scroll down. The United States lists are at the bottom.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
c3_2323
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
guess one of the hardest things for me about the shift is not having
validation that it is a change. I've long recognized that "expecting"
my kids to do or be whatever doesn't work, doesn't even make sense,
but I have fallen into some of the typical traps.
Something you all don't know about me is that I am more than willing
to look at myself. I'm also a therapist, so not only am I
self-reflective, I respond well to empathy ;-) which isn't the same as
condoning any action.
And the thing is, my fears are valid. If I sent in my IHIP last year,
with a thorough lay out of what we would be covering, and it was
returned to me covered in red just b/c, it is a reality that I have to
be really careful following my heart and what I think is best for my
kids, lest the authorities become involved. We have a very
controlling superintendent and it is not a pretty situation here.
So yeah, I'm really nervous. Not only am I stepping outside of my own
box, I'm doing so with some real fears.
And yeah, the TV thing worries me and it's going to. If this isn't a
proper place to discuss those worries, even as I "allow" them to
unfold (i.e. I'm not stopping him from watching TV, it just gives me a
pit in my stomach), then please let me know. I would never intend to
upset anyone, ever.
Oh, and yeah, my dh is an issue. He's really a fantastic guy, but
he's not into hsing in general and forget unschooling. He also works
from home which, wonderful as it can be, makes things tough too. And
he's been horribly moody, which is so not him.
This may be more sharing than necessary, but I had really pushed for a
3rd child, and since have also insisted on not vaccinating my kids,
and now homeschooling. I think he feels disillusioned. He's stressed
by all the yelling and whining and fighting that happens in our house
(me too, and no not he and I, with rare exceptions). He doesn't see
the harm of school and has some really traditional views. Not being
confident in all my choices, I often feel caught.
I don't say all of this to get sympathy or pats on the back, or
whatever, but I do think it is important to understand where people
are coming from. I've been living the past couple of days with a pit
in my stomach and it's not fun.
off as defensive. I hope it helps to know how much I want what works
best for my kids. I love them more than anything and if I have to
step way out of boxes for them, I will.
Thanks,
Christie
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>Sure, that's fair, but it doesn't mean it's not a shift for me. And I
>
> On Oct 29, 2008, at 8:37 AM, c3_2323 wrote:
>
> > I am hoping today that he will want to go out and gather some
> > materials for some projects we've been talking about
>
> Expectations can be relationship killers. They can set kids (and
> partners and friends) up to fail.
>
> If you must expect, expect him to watch TV ;-)
guess one of the hardest things for me about the shift is not having
validation that it is a change. I've long recognized that "expecting"
my kids to do or be whatever doesn't work, doesn't even make sense,
but I have fallen into some of the typical traps.
Something you all don't know about me is that I am more than willing
to look at myself. I'm also a therapist, so not only am I
self-reflective, I respond well to empathy ;-) which isn't the same as
condoning any action.
And the thing is, my fears are valid. If I sent in my IHIP last year,
with a thorough lay out of what we would be covering, and it was
returned to me covered in red just b/c, it is a reality that I have to
be really careful following my heart and what I think is best for my
kids, lest the authorities become involved. We have a very
controlling superintendent and it is not a pretty situation here.
So yeah, I'm really nervous. Not only am I stepping outside of my own
box, I'm doing so with some real fears.
And yeah, the TV thing worries me and it's going to. If this isn't a
proper place to discuss those worries, even as I "allow" them to
unfold (i.e. I'm not stopping him from watching TV, it just gives me a
pit in my stomach), then please let me know. I would never intend to
upset anyone, ever.
Oh, and yeah, my dh is an issue. He's really a fantastic guy, but
he's not into hsing in general and forget unschooling. He also works
from home which, wonderful as it can be, makes things tough too. And
he's been horribly moody, which is so not him.
This may be more sharing than necessary, but I had really pushed for a
3rd child, and since have also insisted on not vaccinating my kids,
and now homeschooling. I think he feels disillusioned. He's stressed
by all the yelling and whining and fighting that happens in our house
(me too, and no not he and I, with rare exceptions). He doesn't see
the harm of school and has some really traditional views. Not being
confident in all my choices, I often feel caught.
I don't say all of this to get sympathy or pats on the back, or
whatever, but I do think it is important to understand where people
are coming from. I've been living the past couple of days with a pit
in my stomach and it's not fun.
>Done, thanks! And thanks for your feedback. My apologies if I come
> If you're not on a NY list for unschoolers, do find one as soon as
> possible. I know loads of NY unschoolers have gone through a
> deschooling period with TV watching and video game playing. Find out
> how they worked that into their reports. Information is the best cure
> for fear.
>
> Go here: http://sandradodd.com/world
>
> Scroll down. The United States lists are at the bottom.
off as defensive. I hope it helps to know how much I want what works
best for my kids. I love them more than anything and if I have to
step way out of boxes for them, I will.
Thanks,
Christie
raisingexplorers
My son is like this, also. He doesn't normally enjoy beginning a
reading session by sitting down with me to read a book. He likes to
begin by having me start reading the book and him doing whatever he
wants to do... then, later, sometimes he gets caught up in the book
and leaves the other activity behind. Sometimes, he doesn't, though.
When he was in Kindergarten, (at public school) the teachers
complained that he would always want to be playing with items and
doing other things while they tried to read to the class. BUT, that
when asked about the stories - he could always answer the questions
correctly. It "seemed" like he wasn't paying attention to their
reading, and they were surprised that even though he had been playing
he was paying attention to the story also. He easily splits his
attention. But, the reader finds it "offensive" that they are reading
and the person who is being read to "isn't paying attention the way
the reader thinks they should." Reading was a struggle, because people
were trying to force him to do it their way.
I thought, for a time, that he didn't like having stories read to him.
But, that wasn't it. He didn't like having a reader who was offended
by the fact that he didn't have to sit there quietly and still, only
paying attention to the reader, to understand a story. I found this
out full force when I began checking out AudioBooks for him. He wanted
Peter Pan and Harry Potter. I got the AudioBooks so he could be free
to play with his legos, or computer games and listen to the story
whenever he felt like it. He completed both books and related many of
the events in them to me. He was listening to them, understanding them
and enjoying them. He didn't need anybody forcing him to sit still,
look at the book, pay attention, turn off the game, turn off the TV,
etc. I would say, don't take offense. Just start reading. My son often
will be playing Gameboy games when I start reading a book, and will
stop playing them when I get to exciting parts of the book.
My Father In Law is like this, too. He is a computer/phone networking
genius and frequently must go back to school for new technology. He
listens to Audio Books to help him learn the new technology while he
is driving, working on his projects, running on his treadmill,
watching a TV show, playing computer games... Listening to the info
while engaged in other activities doesn't seem to hold him back in his
field of ever expanding technology.
--- In [email protected], "c3_2323"
<craigiecarter@...> wrote:
reading session by sitting down with me to read a book. He likes to
begin by having me start reading the book and him doing whatever he
wants to do... then, later, sometimes he gets caught up in the book
and leaves the other activity behind. Sometimes, he doesn't, though.
When he was in Kindergarten, (at public school) the teachers
complained that he would always want to be playing with items and
doing other things while they tried to read to the class. BUT, that
when asked about the stories - he could always answer the questions
correctly. It "seemed" like he wasn't paying attention to their
reading, and they were surprised that even though he had been playing
he was paying attention to the story also. He easily splits his
attention. But, the reader finds it "offensive" that they are reading
and the person who is being read to "isn't paying attention the way
the reader thinks they should." Reading was a struggle, because people
were trying to force him to do it their way.
I thought, for a time, that he didn't like having stories read to him.
But, that wasn't it. He didn't like having a reader who was offended
by the fact that he didn't have to sit there quietly and still, only
paying attention to the reader, to understand a story. I found this
out full force when I began checking out AudioBooks for him. He wanted
Peter Pan and Harry Potter. I got the AudioBooks so he could be free
to play with his legos, or computer games and listen to the story
whenever he felt like it. He completed both books and related many of
the events in them to me. He was listening to them, understanding them
and enjoying them. He didn't need anybody forcing him to sit still,
look at the book, pay attention, turn off the game, turn off the TV,
etc. I would say, don't take offense. Just start reading. My son often
will be playing Gameboy games when I start reading a book, and will
stop playing them when I get to exciting parts of the book.
My Father In Law is like this, too. He is a computer/phone networking
genius and frequently must go back to school for new technology. He
listens to Audio Books to help him learn the new technology while he
is driving, working on his projects, running on his treadmill,
watching a TV show, playing computer games... Listening to the info
while engaged in other activities doesn't seem to hold him back in his
field of ever expanding technology.
--- In [email protected], "c3_2323"
<craigiecarter@...> wrote:
>started leafing through the basket of
> books next to me. I asked if he wanted to read one of the Magic
> Treehouse books together, and he said yes. I immediately stopped what
> I was doing (something I'm not always good at), went over and sat with
> him to read. He grabs the remote and says "you read, I'll watch".
>
Rachel Fee
I could have written this post myself! Thank you so much. I am just
beginning to implement unschooling ideas w/my 3 1/2 yr twin girls & I am
sick to death of the screaming, crying, fightig, hitting, & aggression of
all kinds. It takes everything I have not to go into authoritarian parent
mode & shut the whole thing down.
Thanks for sharing your struggle.
Rachel Fee-Prince
beginning to implement unschooling ideas w/my 3 1/2 yr twin girls & I am
sick to death of the screaming, crying, fightig, hitting, & aggression of
all kinds. It takes everything I have not to go into authoritarian parent
mode & shut the whole thing down.
Thanks for sharing your struggle.
Rachel Fee-Prince
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 9:22 AM, c3_2323 <craigiecarter@...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Joyce Fetteroll
> <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Oct 29, 2008, at 8:37 AM, c3_2323 wrote:
> >
> > > I am hoping today that he will want to go out and gather some
> > > materials for some projects we've been talking about
> >
> > Expectations can be relationship killers. They can set kids (and
> > partners and friends) up to fail.
> >
> > If you must expect, expect him to watch TV ;-)
>
> Sure, that's fair, but it doesn't mean it's not a shift for me. And I
> guess one of the hardest things for me about the shift is not having
> validation that it is a change. I've long recognized that "expecting"
> my kids to do or be whatever doesn't work, doesn't even make sense,
> but I have fallen into some of the typical traps.
>
> Something you all don't know about me is that I am more than willing
> to look at myself. I'm also a therapist, so not only am I
> self-reflective, I respond well to empathy ;-) which isn't the same as
> condoning any action.
>
> And the thing is, my fears are valid. If I sent in my IHIP last year,
> with a thorough lay out of what we would be covering, and it was
> returned to me covered in red just b/c, it is a reality that I have to
> be really careful following my heart and what I think is best for my
> kids, lest the authorities become involved. We have a very
> controlling superintendent and it is not a pretty situation here.
>
> So yeah, I'm really nervous. Not only am I stepping outside of my own
> box, I'm doing so with some real fears.
>
> And yeah, the TV thing worries me and it's going to. If this isn't a
> proper place to discuss those worries, even as I "allow" them to
> unfold (i.e. I'm not stopping him from watching TV, it just gives me a
> pit in my stomach), then please let me know. I would never intend to
> upset anyone, ever.
>
> Oh, and yeah, my dh is an issue. He's really a fantastic guy, but
> he's not into hsing in general and forget unschooling. He also works
> from home which, wonderful as it can be, makes things tough too. And
> he's been horribly moody, which is so not him.
>
> This may be more sharing than necessary, but I had really pushed for a
> 3rd child, and since have also insisted on not vaccinating my kids,
> and now homeschooling. I think he feels disillusioned. He's stressed
> by all the yelling and whining and fighting that happens in our house
> (me too, and no not he and I, with rare exceptions). He doesn't see
> the harm of school and has some really traditional views. Not being
> confident in all my choices, I often feel caught.
>
> I don't say all of this to get sympathy or pats on the back, or
> whatever, but I do think it is important to understand where people
> are coming from. I've been living the past couple of days with a pit
> in my stomach and it's not fun.
> >
> > If you're not on a NY list for unschoolers, do find one as soon as
> > possible. I know loads of NY unschoolers have gone through a
> > deschooling period with TV watching and video game playing. Find out
> > how they worked that into their reports. Information is the best cure
> > for fear.
> >
> > Go here: http://sandradodd.com/world
> >
> > Scroll down. The United States lists are at the bottom.
>
> Done, thanks! And thanks for your feedback. My apologies if I come
> off as defensive. I hope it helps to know how much I want what works
> best for my kids. I love them more than anything and if I have to
> step way out of boxes for them, I will.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Christie
>
>
>
--
"She softened gradually, melting in the light of the sun, all the while
thinking, 'O, this is what it's like to be a planet' & suddenly it was over
& the universe expanded by one."
-Brian Andreas
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathleen Gehrke
--- In [email protected], "c3_2323" <craigiecarter@...>
wrote:
Crawl up next to him and watch some tv too. Talk about the shows he is
watching.
My kids truly, truly learn tons from tv. The Suite Life of Zach and
Cody gave my daughter lots of huge vocabulary words. My son loves
Mythbusters and How its Made. It all has value.. IT ALL HAS VALUE.
Your son will not most likely watch tv forever. But during the time he
does connect with it, connect with him.
Learning does not stop if no book is open, no worksheet present.
Learning is all the time.
My kids and I watch Survivor. We often look at the globe and check out
what it is like where the people are. We discuss the morality and
ethics of each alliance and each tribal council. We connect through
this somewhat goofy show.
Yesterday we cooked a pumpkin and then has a cooking frenzy. We
searched on the internet for pumpkin recipes. We watched the squash
become soft and then become delicous deserts. We weighed our
ingredients and discussed the boiling temperature and time it took. The
kids read each other nutritional value on the recipe. The game goes
like this. Someone is reading a label. They ask how many grams of
sugar? The rest guess. Always informative<BWG>
Kathleen
wrote:
>Christie,
> And as ridiculous as it sounds, I think I'm having withdrawal. I
> know, I said it was ridiculous.
>
> I'm feeling like maybe I didn't research this enough (so me), as I
> loathe reading off of websites. I've certainly done some, but I am so
> nervous.
>
> So far he has chosen only to watch TV and that is so hard for me.
Crawl up next to him and watch some tv too. Talk about the shows he is
watching.
My kids truly, truly learn tons from tv. The Suite Life of Zach and
Cody gave my daughter lots of huge vocabulary words. My son loves
Mythbusters and How its Made. It all has value.. IT ALL HAS VALUE.
Your son will not most likely watch tv forever. But during the time he
does connect with it, connect with him.
Learning does not stop if no book is open, no worksheet present.
Learning is all the time.
My kids and I watch Survivor. We often look at the globe and check out
what it is like where the people are. We discuss the morality and
ethics of each alliance and each tribal council. We connect through
this somewhat goofy show.
Yesterday we cooked a pumpkin and then has a cooking frenzy. We
searched on the internet for pumpkin recipes. We watched the squash
become soft and then become delicous deserts. We weighed our
ingredients and discussed the boiling temperature and time it took. The
kids read each other nutritional value on the recipe. The game goes
like this. Someone is reading a label. They ask how many grams of
sugar? The rest guess. Always informative<BWG>
Kathleen
Kimberlee
I used to prefer to read in print myself, rather than on the computer.
Maybe try printing some of the recommended articles, borrow or buy
some of the recommended books, and listen to some podcasts. Sandra
Dodd for example, was interviewed (Sept 8, 2008) on Relaxed Homeschool
Talk Radio and you can download the podcast for free from itunes (she
talks (amongst other things) about deschooling including how long it
might take).
Kimberlee
Maybe try printing some of the recommended articles, borrow or buy
some of the recommended books, and listen to some podcasts. Sandra
Dodd for example, was interviewed (Sept 8, 2008) on Relaxed Homeschool
Talk Radio and you can download the podcast for free from itunes (she
talks (amongst other things) about deschooling including how long it
might take).
Kimberlee
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I'm feeling like maybe I didn't research this enough (so me), as I
> loathe reading off of websites. I've certainly done some, but I am so
> nervous.
>
>
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "c3_2323"
<craigiecarter@...> wrote:
myself of that frequently when I'm in the middle of one! Maybe you
can tape big signs all over the house that say "its not the
unschooling, its the Transition" as a reminder.
with his mamma. See it also as a kind of creative problem-solving on
his part. He can tell that watching a lot of tv means less time with
mom, and he's not thrilled about that. He can tell that tv isn't
your thing - so he found a solution! Clever guy! I don't have any
idea if that's something you can use in terms of reporting or not -
I don't live in NY, but I do some "reporting" to Ray's bio mom.
Ray's a Very social learner, so I'm often in the position of taking
what he's doing socially and looking for the learning and "skill
building" going on.
project y'all could do in front of the tv? It does take some time to
shift the way you think about communicating and figuring things out
with your kids. Its convenient to just decide - maybe offer a few
options, but ultimately, that's still you deciding. Its nowhere near
as convenient to work things out together, especially at first. With
practice, it gets easier, I promise!
If he's not interested in doing any kind of projects at all right
now, consider doing some yourself, for your own enjoyment, anyway.
Do them in the same room if possible, so y'all can still enjoy each
other's company.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<craigiecarter@...> wrote:
>Its not ridiculous, transitions are hard. It helps me to remind
> And as ridiculous as it sounds, I think I'm having withdrawal. I
> know, I said it was ridiculous.
myself of that frequently when I'm in the middle of one! Maybe you
can tape big signs all over the house that say "its not the
unschooling, its the Transition" as a reminder.
>> He grabs the remote and says "you read, I'll watch".Try to see this as him asking for your company - some connection
with his mamma. See it also as a kind of creative problem-solving on
his part. He can tell that watching a lot of tv means less time with
mom, and he's not thrilled about that. He can tell that tv isn't
your thing - so he found a solution! Clever guy! I don't have any
idea if that's something you can use in terms of reporting or not -
I don't live in NY, but I do some "reporting" to Ray's bio mom.
Ray's a Very social learner, so I'm often in the position of taking
what he's doing socially and looking for the learning and "skill
building" going on.
> Ugh. I am hoping today that he will want to go out and gather someto be
> materials for some projects we've been talking about, but I want
> okay if he says no.If he says no, could you go gather these materials yourself? Is it a
project y'all could do in front of the tv? It does take some time to
shift the way you think about communicating and figuring things out
with your kids. Its convenient to just decide - maybe offer a few
options, but ultimately, that's still you deciding. Its nowhere near
as convenient to work things out together, especially at first. With
practice, it gets easier, I promise!
If he's not interested in doing any kind of projects at all right
now, consider doing some yourself, for your own enjoyment, anyway.
Do them in the same room if possible, so y'all can still enjoy each
other's company.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
aenclade
I am about 7 weeks ahead of you on this journey into unschooling. The
first 2 weeks were horrible....it was really hard letting go of
preschool, the schedule, this new way of life. I did do quite a lot of
research but still this transition is totally hard.the hardest part is
changing myself. I am so committed to making it work that I have found
myself almost 2 months in...the tv made me nuts at first and the most
helpful advice was to put lots of stuff around the tv to play with and
low and behold he now watches while playing with stuff...not all the
time but more and more. the changes are becoming obvious now as he is
becoming more of his own person rather than one of a group that he
spends time with everyday. it is truly amazing and at the same time
scary so I completely feel for you and encourage you to keep on
keeping on.
good luck and know there are people right there with you
amanda
first 2 weeks were horrible....it was really hard letting go of
preschool, the schedule, this new way of life. I did do quite a lot of
research but still this transition is totally hard.the hardest part is
changing myself. I am so committed to making it work that I have found
myself almost 2 months in...the tv made me nuts at first and the most
helpful advice was to put lots of stuff around the tv to play with and
low and behold he now watches while playing with stuff...not all the
time but more and more. the changes are becoming obvious now as he is
becoming more of his own person rather than one of a group that he
spends time with everyday. it is truly amazing and at the same time
scary so I completely feel for you and encourage you to keep on
keeping on.
good luck and know there are people right there with you
amanda
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <meredith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "c3_2323"
> <craigiecarter@> wrote:
> >
> > And as ridiculous as it sounds, I think I'm having withdrawal. I
> > know, I said it was ridiculous.
>
> Its not ridiculous, transitions are hard. It helps me to remind
> myself of that frequently when I'm in the middle of one! Maybe you
> can tape big signs all over the house that say "its not the
> unschooling, its the Transition" as a reminder.
>
> >> He grabs the remote and says "you read, I'll watch".
>
> Try to see this as him asking for your company - some connection
> with his mamma. See it also as a kind of creative problem-solving on
> his part. He can tell that watching a lot of tv means less time with
> mom, and he's not thrilled about that. He can tell that tv isn't
> your thing - so he found a solution! Clever guy! I don't have any
> idea if that's something you can use in terms of reporting or not -
> I don't live in NY, but I do some "reporting" to Ray's bio mom.
> Ray's a Very social learner, so I'm often in the position of taking
> what he's doing socially and looking for the learning and "skill
> building" going on.
>
> > Ugh. I am hoping today that he will want to go out and gather some
> > materials for some projects we've been talking about, but I want
> to be
> > okay if he says no.
>
> If he says no, could you go gather these materials yourself? Is it a
> project y'all could do in front of the tv? It does take some time to
> shift the way you think about communicating and figuring things out
> with your kids. Its convenient to just decide - maybe offer a few
> options, but ultimately, that's still you deciding. Its nowhere near
> as convenient to work things out together, especially at first. With
> practice, it gets easier, I promise!
>
> If he's not interested in doing any kind of projects at all right
> now, consider doing some yourself, for your own enjoyment, anyway.
> Do them in the same room if possible, so y'all can still enjoy each
> other's company.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
>
Faith Void
there is also all the Live and Learn talk downloads. I think that this years
is out now. There is also previous years.
http://liveandlearnshop.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=114
faith
is out now. There is also previous years.
http://liveandlearnshop.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=114
faith
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Kimberlee <kimmybird@...> wrote:
> I used to prefer to read in print myself, rather than on the computer.
> Maybe try printing some of the recommended articles, borrow or buy
> some of the recommended books, and listen to some podcasts. Sandra
> Dodd for example, was interviewed (Sept 8, 2008) on Relaxed Homeschool
> Talk Radio and you can download the podcast for free from itunes (she
> talks (amongst other things) about deschooling including how long it
> might take).
>
> Kimberlee
>
> >
> > I'm feeling like maybe I didn't research this enough (so me), as I
> > loathe reading off of websites. I've certainly done some, but I am so
> > nervous.
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 30, 2008, at 9:22 AM, c3_2323 wrote:
But if you're looking for "Yeah, it's tough, hang in there," types of
responses it's not what you'll get here.
The list is a great place to help people see a situation from a
different direction so they can help themselves move on. It's not
great for helping people feel comfortable where they are with their
problems.
them toward unschooling. If anyone doesn't want to actively work at
changing or doesn't want an idea examined with an eye towards helping
them get out of their own way as they work toward unschooling, it's
best not to post the idea.
Also, answers aren't intended exclusively for the person who posted.
While the answers tend to address a specific situation, the
understanding of the writers is that there may be a dozen or more
people with the same situation. The responses are meant for them too.
While this state of fear might be "just where you are" so to speak,
I'm betting your son is aware you're uncomfortable with his TV
watching. It will be in your tone of voice and body language. It will
be in the suggestions of what you offer to do. You won't be able to
respond to "Can I watch TV?" with the same attitude as "Can I read a
book?" No matter how hard you try to be neutral, your discomfort will
be there.
So, as far as fostering unschooling goes, it's best for new
unschoolers to let go of their fears as soon as possible, or, while
they're working on letting go, to "fake it until they make it" ;-) If
you want ideas on how to let go of fears, people will be happy to
offer what worked for them :-)
states to unschool in -- doesn't mean your only option is to put up
with the fears. There are lots of people in NY who have been where
you are. They can help with suggestions.
"Oh, wow, yeah, that was hard," responses, doesn't mean we haven't
been through the experience and understand. It doesn't mean it wasn't
a struggle for some of of the people here.
I suspect, though, that what drives a lot of the people to volunteer
their hours in helping others move toward unschooling comes with an
understanding that acceptance of where one is isn't helpful. If I
felt it was okay for people to put up with the problems in their
lives, it wouldn't get me out of bed at 4:30 every morning for the
past 13 years to say "Oh, yeah, I know what you mean. I had problems
with that too." The challenge in doing that would have been sucked
out by the second post ;-)
It's challenging for unschooling writers to help people see the world
in new ways. It's what drives a lot of people to post help. And
people need a driving passionate reason to take time from their
families to do something. I think the problem is that new unschoolers
come to lists and a list *feels* like a bunch of women (usually)
sitting around chatting while their kids play with each other. So it
feels like someone can throw out "Let me tell you about my bad day,"
and have others express sympathy and comfort. But the list isn't like
that. This is work answering people's concerns. Challenging, fun
(unpaid) work. If it weren't challenging or fun -- if it was merely
an hour reading tales of people's miseries and offering "Oh, that's
too bad" and other soothing words -- there's a whole pile of other
things waiting for my time! ;-)
I'm not mad or upset. I've just been challenged for years to explain
to people who come to lists expecting soothing words and getting
upset that their lives get examined on a list that has intentionally
gathered people who enjoy discussing. Neither I nor anyone else has
been able to explain why the list is as it is and have someone say
"Oh, I get it!"
better?
Again, information is the best cure for fear. Read here:
http://www.joyfullyrejoycing.com
http://www.sandradodd.com/unschooling
Search for whatever fear you have in the archives at this list and I
bet others have had the same one and it's been discussed :-)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/messages
There's no need to be a slave to fear or to any feeling, really. I
think this society does a poor job with feelings. We're told to let
them out or to hold them in, but not helped with the skills to take
charge of our emotions by actively working at changing our view.
rules. It's *hard* unschooling while a spouse is watching over
looking for something that resembles "learning", eg, something kids
would do in school. It's quite possible the moodiness is him burying
his worry as he trusts you, but it's building up. He's scared and
he's worried because you're doing something weird that isn't
comforting his fears. And you're afraid too! So your lack of
confidence isn't helping him with his fears.
Unschooling conferences are great for Dads -- and Moms too :-)
Try the Unschooling Circuit Riders yahoogroup. It's a low volume
group that sends out periodic messages listing upcoming conferences.
There are also conferences listed here:
http://familyrun.ning.com/events/event/listUpcoming
My first guess is you need to be more present. Be there *before* the
kids can get to the yelling, whining and fighting stage. Learn to see
the build up. Bring snacks. Get out of the house. Call one away to do
something with you (like gathering snacks, folding towels, etc.)
It's not that unschooling houses are models of peace and
tranquility ;-) but yelling, whining and fighting are kids' ways of
communicating something's wrong. While we can't eliminate all of the
conflict, we can get to a lot of it by being more present and more
aware of what's going on.
Have you read "Siblings WIthout Rivalry". Excellent book. Very easy
to read. Also, and more immediate:
http://sandradodd.com/siblings
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> If this isn't aVery definitely this is a great place to discuss worries.
> proper place to discuss those worries,
But if you're looking for "Yeah, it's tough, hang in there," types of
responses it's not what you'll get here.
The list is a great place to help people see a situation from a
different direction so they can help themselves move on. It's not
great for helping people feel comfortable where they are with their
problems.
> even as I "allow" them toThe list is a place to discuss anything people want to change to help
> unfold (i.e. I'm not stopping him from watching TV, it just gives me a
> pit in my stomach), then please let me know.
them toward unschooling. If anyone doesn't want to actively work at
changing or doesn't want an idea examined with an eye towards helping
them get out of their own way as they work toward unschooling, it's
best not to post the idea.
Also, answers aren't intended exclusively for the person who posted.
While the answers tend to address a specific situation, the
understanding of the writers is that there may be a dozen or more
people with the same situation. The responses are meant for them too.
While this state of fear might be "just where you are" so to speak,
I'm betting your son is aware you're uncomfortable with his TV
watching. It will be in your tone of voice and body language. It will
be in the suggestions of what you offer to do. You won't be able to
respond to "Can I watch TV?" with the same attitude as "Can I read a
book?" No matter how hard you try to be neutral, your discomfort will
be there.
So, as far as fostering unschooling goes, it's best for new
unschoolers to let go of their fears as soon as possible, or, while
they're working on letting go, to "fake it until they make it" ;-) If
you want ideas on how to let go of fears, people will be happy to
offer what worked for them :-)
> And the thing is, my fears are valid.Just because fears a valid -- and, yes, NY and PA are the two hardest
states to unschool in -- doesn't mean your only option is to put up
with the fears. There are lots of people in NY who have been where
you are. They can help with suggestions.
> Sure, that's fair, but it doesn't mean it's not a shift for me.As it was for all of us here :-) Just because you're not receiving
"Oh, wow, yeah, that was hard," responses, doesn't mean we haven't
been through the experience and understand. It doesn't mean it wasn't
a struggle for some of of the people here.
I suspect, though, that what drives a lot of the people to volunteer
their hours in helping others move toward unschooling comes with an
understanding that acceptance of where one is isn't helpful. If I
felt it was okay for people to put up with the problems in their
lives, it wouldn't get me out of bed at 4:30 every morning for the
past 13 years to say "Oh, yeah, I know what you mean. I had problems
with that too." The challenge in doing that would have been sucked
out by the second post ;-)
It's challenging for unschooling writers to help people see the world
in new ways. It's what drives a lot of people to post help. And
people need a driving passionate reason to take time from their
families to do something. I think the problem is that new unschoolers
come to lists and a list *feels* like a bunch of women (usually)
sitting around chatting while their kids play with each other. So it
feels like someone can throw out "Let me tell you about my bad day,"
and have others express sympathy and comfort. But the list isn't like
that. This is work answering people's concerns. Challenging, fun
(unpaid) work. If it weren't challenging or fun -- if it was merely
an hour reading tales of people's miseries and offering "Oh, that's
too bad" and other soothing words -- there's a whole pile of other
things waiting for my time! ;-)
I'm not mad or upset. I've just been challenged for years to explain
to people who come to lists expecting soothing words and getting
upset that their lives get examined on a list that has intentionally
gathered people who enjoy discussing. Neither I nor anyone else has
been able to explain why the list is as it is and have someone say
"Oh, I get it!"
> And IAll shifts are change, of course. I assume you mean change for the
> guess one of the hardest things for me about the shift is not having
> validation that it is a change.
better?
Again, information is the best cure for fear. Read here:
http://www.joyfullyrejoycing.com
http://www.sandradodd.com/unschooling
Search for whatever fear you have in the archives at this list and I
bet others have had the same one and it's been discussed :-)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/messages
There's no need to be a slave to fear or to any feeling, really. I
think this society does a poor job with feelings. We're told to let
them out or to hold them in, but not helped with the skills to take
charge of our emotions by actively working at changing our view.
> He also worksI suspect this is an even bigger factor in your worries than NY
> from home which, wonderful as it can be, makes things tough too. And
> he's been horribly moody, which is so not him.
rules. It's *hard* unschooling while a spouse is watching over
looking for something that resembles "learning", eg, something kids
would do in school. It's quite possible the moodiness is him burying
his worry as he trusts you, but it's building up. He's scared and
he's worried because you're doing something weird that isn't
comforting his fears. And you're afraid too! So your lack of
confidence isn't helping him with his fears.
Unschooling conferences are great for Dads -- and Moms too :-)
Try the Unschooling Circuit Riders yahoogroup. It's a low volume
group that sends out periodic messages listing upcoming conferences.
There are also conferences listed here:
http://familyrun.ning.com/events/event/listUpcoming
> He's stressedI would be too.
> by all the yelling and whining and fighting that happens in our house
My first guess is you need to be more present. Be there *before* the
kids can get to the yelling, whining and fighting stage. Learn to see
the build up. Bring snacks. Get out of the house. Call one away to do
something with you (like gathering snacks, folding towels, etc.)
It's not that unschooling houses are models of peace and
tranquility ;-) but yelling, whining and fighting are kids' ways of
communicating something's wrong. While we can't eliminate all of the
conflict, we can get to a lot of it by being more present and more
aware of what's going on.
Have you read "Siblings WIthout Rivalry". Excellent book. Very easy
to read. Also, and more immediate:
http://sandradodd.com/siblings
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christie Craigie-Carter
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>wrote:
it is naturally my inclination to validate where someone else even as I (and
they) hope to move toward change. I don't see them as mutually exclusive.
Perhaps I misunderstand.
empathize with remaining with the status quo, this makes sense of course,
though I find it hard to imagine people would expect members of an
unschooling list to encourage activities or practices that are not in line
with that philosophy. But I tend to be literal and logical and look into
things very deeply. So, for example, when you said this, I find myself
trying on different possible meanings for what you said.
guess I feel a little defensive but not overly so. I guess overall, I don't
see the harm in saying "yeah it was a shift for me too" or "I can understand
that, here are some ideas". Again, I wouldn't be here if I didn't want them
and wasn't willing to work on myself.
me posting is to hear from others if they had felt this way and what helped
them, which some people did and I appreciate very much.
afraid". And yes, any ideas on letting go of fears are always appreciated.
I was reading in "Deschooling Gently" last night that she still has moments
of panic from time to time. In some ways I had hoped that there was some
magic, but in other ways, this was reassuring that I'm not alone. There are
some deeply ingrained messages that I need to get rid of or have responses
in my head to. Of course, at the end of the day, irregardless of my
husband's concerns or school district issues, I worry that this isn't the
best decision for him, that *my* decision to unschool will inadvertently not
take care of his needs.
specifically say so. And again, I hope you will learn about me that I don't
put up with fears; I examine them, challenge them and make peace with them
when I can. I've faked till I made a lot of things; homebirthing, not
vaccinating and now unschooling.
these are genuine questions, not meant to be critical at all. Is it a fear
that by validating what may be challening would inadvertantly encourage
people not to ask the hard questions that might allow them to change?
step toward change.
and not directed toward the OP, I still would like to address what comes to
mind for me. I put in tons of volunteer hours helping people work toward
change. I run a chapter (and co-lead another) of the International Cesarean
Awareness Network and give lots of in person and online support to birthing
women. And I find that a mixture of soothing words and validation of the
messages that people hear every day is a starting point. Sometimes we only
have a short period of time (i.e. woman is "due" in a short time), and then
responses tend to be more pointed with less of the empathic responses b/c
it's decision making time. A woman has to either decide to change her views
and often find a new provider if she chooses one, or she doesn't and she
leaves the group. I just thought it might help to see how my perspective
has been colored, if you will.
don't post unless I'm willing to have something examined (gently hopefully),
and yet I don't see how empathy has to be left out.
is why I am striving toward an unschooling lifestyle, but it is still a
process and a bit scary.
view, that emotions are resolved in the process. I'm going to chew on that
a bit.
time, it will likely be the school district again, though I am starting to
have increased confidence that I can handle the reporting. ITA about his
moodiness. I've invited him to talk about it but thus far he hasn't taken
me up on it. He doesn't outwardly express concerns about homeschooling any
more, but I *feel* it and I know my son does too.
the addition of a 3rd has just changed the dynamics enough to increase
fighting. My oldest tends to try to get involved in everything, which
upsets the other two, and gets very offended if I ask him to remove himself
from the situation, no matter how much I thank him for his intent. He also
gets his feelings hurt very easily which I'm not sure how to handle. I try
to be as gentle as possible, but it doesn't seem to matter.
which doesn't always work ;-)
communicating". I spend a lot of time wondering how their ways of
communication might relate to how they feel and to what they may have eaten
(food allergies again), so it's not a foreign concept to me, but I do think
that has been part of why I haven't been as present in other ways for them.
I'm quite frankly exhausted trying to research this and that, figure out if
this or that is a symptom of another allergy, finding suitable meals and
snacks, etc.
not I will add it. Thanks again. I do hope you know that I appreciate your
responses even though some of it was/is confusing given the way my brain
works ;-)
Christie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I'm a bit confused about this. As I mentioned, I'm a therapist by trade, so
> On Oct 30, 2008, at 9:22 AM, c3_2323 wrote:
>
> > If this isn't a
> > proper place to discuss those worries,
>
> Very definitely this is a great place to discuss worries.
>
> But if you're looking for "Yeah, it's tough, hang in there," types of
> responses it's not what you'll get here.
>
it is naturally my inclination to validate where someone else even as I (and
they) hope to move toward change. I don't see them as mutually exclusive.
Perhaps I misunderstand.
>Again, I'm not certain what you mean, but if you mean that the list does not
>
> The list is a great place to help people see a situation from a
> different direction so they can help themselves move on. It's not
> great for helping people feel comfortable where they are with their
> problems.
>
empathize with remaining with the status quo, this makes sense of course,
though I find it hard to imagine people would expect members of an
unschooling list to encourage activities or practices that are not in line
with that philosophy. But I tend to be literal and logical and look into
things very deeply. So, for example, when you said this, I find myself
trying on different possible meanings for what you said.
>Well, I don't post unless I want feedback. Gosh, I sound defensive. I
>
> > even as I "allow" them to
> > unfold (i.e. I'm not stopping him from watching TV, it just gives me a
> > pit in my stomach), then please let me know.
>
> The list is a place to discuss anything people want to change to help
> them toward unschooling. If anyone doesn't want to actively work at
> changing or doesn't want an idea examined with an eye towards helping
> them get out of their own way as they work toward unschooling, it's
> best not to post the idea.
>
guess I feel a little defensive but not overly so. I guess overall, I don't
see the harm in saying "yeah it was a shift for me too" or "I can understand
that, here are some ideas". Again, I wouldn't be here if I didn't want them
and wasn't willing to work on myself.
>Sure.
>
> Also, answers aren't intended exclusively for the person who posted.
> While the answers tend to address a specific situation, the
> understanding of the writers is that there may be a dozen or more
> people with the same situation. The responses are meant for them too.
>
>True, but I can't change where I am with the snap of my fingers. A goal of
>
> While this state of fear might be "just where you are" so to speak,
> I'm betting your son is aware you're uncomfortable with his TV
> watching. It will be in your tone of voice and body language. It will
> be in the suggestions of what you offer to do. You won't be able to
> respond to "Can I watch TV?" with the same attitude as "Can I read a
> book?" No matter how hard you try to be neutral, your discomfort will
> be there.
>
me posting is to hear from others if they had felt this way and what helped
them, which some people did and I appreciate very much.
>Fake it til I make it better expresses what I meant when I said "do it
> So, as far as fostering unschooling goes, it's best for new
> unschoolers to let go of their fears as soon as possible, or, while
> they're working on letting go, to "fake it until they make it" ;-) If
> you want ideas on how to let go of fears, people will be happy to
> offer what worked for them :-)
>
afraid". And yes, any ideas on letting go of fears are always appreciated.
I was reading in "Deschooling Gently" last night that she still has moments
of panic from time to time. In some ways I had hoped that there was some
magic, but in other ways, this was reassuring that I'm not alone. There are
some deeply ingrained messages that I need to get rid of or have responses
in my head to. Of course, at the end of the day, irregardless of my
husband's concerns or school district issues, I worry that this isn't the
best decision for him, that *my* decision to unschool will inadvertently not
take care of his needs.
>I appreciate any and all suggestions even if I don't get a chance to
>
> > And the thing is, my fears are valid.
>
> Just because fears a valid -- and, yes, NY and PA are the two hardest
> states to unschool in -- doesn't mean your only option is to put up
> with the fears. There are lots of people in NY who have been where
> you are. They can help with suggestions.
>
specifically say so. And again, I hope you will learn about me that I don't
put up with fears; I examine them, challenge them and make peace with them
when I can. I've faked till I made a lot of things; homebirthing, not
vaccinating and now unschooling.
>May I ask what the hesistance to such responses might be? And please know
>
> > Sure, that's fair, but it doesn't mean it's not a shift for me.
>
> As it was for all of us here :-) Just because you're not receiving
> "Oh, wow, yeah, that was hard," responses, doesn't mean we haven't
> been through the experience and understand. It doesn't mean it wasn't
> a struggle for some of of the people here.
>
these are genuine questions, not meant to be critical at all. Is it a fear
that by validating what may be challening would inadvertantly encourage
people not to ask the hard questions that might allow them to change?
>Again, ime, acceptance of where a person finds themselves is an important
>
> I suspect, though, that what drives a lot of the people to volunteer
> their hours in helping others move toward unschooling comes with an
> understanding that acceptance of where one is isn't helpful.
>
step toward change.
> If IKeeping in mind that you had said that replies are often general statements
> felt it was okay for people to put up with the problems in their
> lives, it wouldn't get me out of bed at 4:30 every morning for the
> past 13 years to say "Oh, yeah, I know what you mean. I had problems
> with that too." The challenge in doing that would have been sucked
> out by the second post ;-)
>
> It's challenging for unschooling writers to help people see the world
> in new ways. It's what drives a lot of people to post help. And
> people need a driving passionate reason to take time from their
> families to do something. I think the problem is that new unschoolers
> come to lists and a list *feels* like a bunch of women (usually)
> sitting around chatting while their kids play with each other. So it
> feels like someone can throw out "Let me tell you about my bad day,"
> and have others express sympathy and comfort. But the list isn't like
> that. This is work answering people's concerns. Challenging, fun
> (unpaid) work. If it weren't challenging or fun -- if it was merely
> an hour reading tales of people's miseries and offering "Oh, that's
> too bad" and other soothing words -- there's a whole pile of other
> things waiting for my time! ;-)
>
and not directed toward the OP, I still would like to address what comes to
mind for me. I put in tons of volunteer hours helping people work toward
change. I run a chapter (and co-lead another) of the International Cesarean
Awareness Network and give lots of in person and online support to birthing
women. And I find that a mixture of soothing words and validation of the
messages that people hear every day is a starting point. Sometimes we only
have a short period of time (i.e. woman is "due" in a short time), and then
responses tend to be more pointed with less of the empathic responses b/c
it's decision making time. A woman has to either decide to change her views
and often find a new provider if she chooses one, or she doesn't and she
leaves the group. I just thought it might help to see how my perspective
has been colored, if you will.
>Well, I think I get some of it, lol. I hope it helps to understand that I
>
> I'm not mad or upset. I've just been challenged for years to explain
> to people who come to lists expecting soothing words and getting
> upset that their lives get examined on a list that has intentionally
> gathered people who enjoy discussing. Neither I nor anyone else has
> been able to explain why the list is as it is and have someone say
> "Oh, I get it!"
>
don't post unless I'm willing to have something examined (gently hopefully),
and yet I don't see how empathy has to be left out.
>Well, it's still unknown to me. Yes, I think it is likely "better", which
>
> > And I
> > guess one of the hardest things for me about the shift is not having
> > validation that it is a change.
>
> All shifts are change, of course. I assume you mean change for the
> better?
>
is why I am striving toward an unschooling lifestyle, but it is still a
process and a bit scary.
>ITA about society. I guess I don't necessarily think that by changing one's
>
> Again, information is the best cure for fear. Read here:
>
> http://www.joyfullyrejoycing.com
> http://www.sandradodd.com/unschooling
>
> Search for whatever fear you have in the archives at this list and I
> bet others have had the same one and it's been discussed :-)
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/messages
>
> There's no need to be a slave to fear or to any feeling, really. I
> think this society does a poor job with feelings. We're told to let
> them out or to hold them in, but not helped with the skills to take
> charge of our emotions by actively working at changing our view.
>
view, that emotions are resolved in the process. I'm going to chew on that
a bit.
>Hard to know what my biggest worry is. It changes. Come quarterly report
>
> > He also works
> > from home which, wonderful as it can be, makes things tough too. And
> > he's been horribly moody, which is so not him.
>
> I suspect this is an even bigger factor in your worries than NY
> rules. It's *hard* unschooling while a spouse is watching over
> looking for something that resembles "learning", eg, something kids
> would do in school. It's quite possible the moodiness is him burying
> his worry as he trusts you, but it's building up. He's scared and
> he's worried because you're doing something weird that isn't
> comforting his fears. And you're afraid too! So your lack of
> confidence isn't helping him with his fears.
>
time, it will likely be the school district again, though I am starting to
have increased confidence that I can handle the reporting. ITA about his
moodiness. I've invited him to talk about it but thus far he hasn't taken
me up on it. He doesn't outwardly express concerns about homeschooling any
more, but I *feel* it and I know my son does too.
>Done. Thanks!
>
> Unschooling conferences are great for Dads -- and Moms too :-)
>
> Try the Unschooling Circuit Riders yahoogroup. It's a low volume
> group that sends out periodic messages listing upcoming conferences.
>
>Thanks.
>
> There are also conferences listed here:
>
> http://familyrun.ning.com/events/event/listUpcoming
>
> <http://familyrun.ning.com/events/event/listUpcoming>Me too. My kids never used to fight. I'm not sure what happened. Perhaps
>
> > He's stressed
> > by all the yelling and whining and fighting that happens in our house
>
> I would be too.
>
the addition of a 3rd has just changed the dynamics enough to increase
fighting. My oldest tends to try to get involved in everything, which
upsets the other two, and gets very offended if I ask him to remove himself
from the situation, no matter how much I thank him for his intent. He also
gets his feelings hurt very easily which I'm not sure how to handle. I try
to be as gentle as possible, but it doesn't seem to matter.
>I can try. I'll admit to trying to finish things before the meltdowns,
>
> My first guess is you need to be more present. Be there *before* the
> kids can get to the yelling, whining and fighting stage. Learn to see
> the build up. Bring snacks. Get out of the house. Call one away to do
> something with you (like gathering snacks, folding towels, etc.)
>
which doesn't always work ;-)
>I'm definitely not good at this. It's funny what you say about "ways of
>
> It's not that unschooling houses are models of peace and
> tranquility ;-) but yelling, whining and fighting are kids' ways of
> communicating something's wrong. While we can't eliminate all of the
> conflict, we can get to a lot of it by being more present and more
> aware of what's going on.
>
communicating". I spend a lot of time wondering how their ways of
communication might relate to how they feel and to what they may have eaten
(food allergies again), so it's not a foreign concept to me, but I do think
that has been part of why I haven't been as present in other ways for them.
I'm quite frankly exhausted trying to research this and that, figure out if
this or that is a symptom of another allergy, finding suitable meals and
snacks, etc.
>I haven't. I think it is already on my list, which is slow going, but if
>
> Have you read "Siblings WIthout Rivalry". Excellent book. Very easy
> to read. Also, and more immediate:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/siblings
>
not I will add it. Thanks again. I do hope you know that I appreciate your
responses even though some of it was/is confusing given the way my brain
works ;-)
Christie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 31, 2008, at 4:33 PM, Christie Craigie-Carter wrote:
like the owners or regular posters got together and agreed not to
write empathetically.
That's not what happened. No decisions actual were made ;-) But years
ago a core of posters who naturally write straight forward without
the empathy drew readers who liked that style. And the readers stuck
around, continuing to read and then write the way they liked to read.
So, it's not that regular writers are reluctant to offer empathy.
It's that this is a self-selected group that are drawn to an
atmosphere where they don't expect or need empathy.
And then people who do need empathy wander into a vibrant group that
looks like what they need and end up wondering why there's no empathy!
been unschooling for 13 years and there are still thoughts that trip
me up occasionally. ;-)
I suspect the regular posters see change is not just an ongoing
process but is best when it's an active process. And helping people
to keep on moving forward is what they help with.
Direct questions do work best on this kind of list, though! :-)
Expectations that a conversation will unfold according to certain
social rules like "Oh, I'm sorry. Here's what I did," tend to lead to
disappointment. Being direct about requests works lots better!
(And you may have done that. Threads about a specific problem are
easier to remember the flow of.)
How do parents know that school will take care of their children's
needs?
We tend to assume that everyone is going along because the thing
they're doing works. But in the case of school or conventional
parenting they're just trusting that it works. They've seen kids come
out of school and go to college and get jobs. (And they assume the
kids who fail are to blame, not the process since it works for others.)
How many adults do you know who are profoundly happy? Who don't feel
trapped by what they spent all that money to acquire (the particular
degree they have). How many adults do you know who jumped through all
the hoops to get to the "American Dream" but have no idea who they
really are? They don't know what they enjoy so they end up just going
along. As they've done since they entered school.
What needs have been taken care of? And which haven't?
Unschooling is different. We aren't trusting that it will lead a
child to a specific place (like college). We know that treating a
child with respect (which means trusting their choices like TV ;-)
creates whole people.
Some people understand "Wherever you go, there you are." And to move
toward unschooling, it's more useful to focus where they want to be
rather than where they are.
I suspect the people who need to hear "You're okay," don't stick
around lists like this long because the regular posters just aren't
the type who think to hand that kind of feedback out. I know I just
assume it's understood that people are where they are. It's not part
of my psyche to need validation for where I am so it doesn't occur to
me to give it. What I want/need is help on getting where I want to
be. And it's where my brain is when I answer.
you can explain it to others, then that might be part of your natural
style of explaining. :-)
kids in the house as the same as being "due". Kids don't have years
for a parent to figure this out. While 38 might not be hugely
different from 36 or 41, for a child, that span of years might be
their whole life if they're 5. An unschooling practice that a parent
is waiting to "get" has been absent from the child's whole life. And
if another 5 years goes by? And other? They're practically grown.
Is that the only way to see things? No. (Though I think the kids
would lean towards the viewpoint of the regular posters ;-) But it is
the kind of help this kind of list gives just because that's the kind
of people who've hung around.
worked at for quite some time. But the more thoughts are pulled up
out of familiar ruts, the easier it gets to keep them out of the ruts.
For example, it's very easy to fall into the rut of reacting with
anger at kids for making deliberate messes, like dumping the whole
tub of Legos out, for instance. If you've got a child who's a dumper,
reacting to his natural inclination with anger, even suppressed anger
that you take somewhere else, is going to have negative effects on
the relationship. Can you just turn that anger off? No, of course
not. But a parent doesn't need to be a slave to it, either. And if
someone had that problem, they could ask here, ask what other parents
did about angers flared by irritation. People might come back with a
slew of ideas that are wide ranging to tackle it from several
direction: do your own dumping and revel in it :-), find smaller
bins, put down a drop cloth and help the child remember to dump
there, smell their hair to remind you how sweet they are :-) and so
on and so on.
It helps a lot to see the anger as something you [general "you"]
don't want. To not see it as something that you just have to put up
with because that's who you are.
separate thread just so it gets its own attention.)
You might try calling him away to do something rather than telling
him to remove himself. If you were trying to get everyone moving in
the direction you thought best and your husband stepped in and told
you to remove yourself, wouldn't you feel miffed?
feel wrong? It's hard to suggest without specific examples.
It might be allergies but it would do them more good to help them
find coping skills rather than seeing some unknown ailment. They are
who they are in the moment, whether it's caused by genetics or food
chemicals. If they're having problems relating to each other, they
need help now, not more research. I'm sure you are helping, but if
your head is in the "I need to find the allergen that's causing this"
mode, then you're not as present with them and what they're feeling
right now as you could be. What if you never do find out? And they're
still having problems at 15? It will serve their future selves a lot
better to help them find ways to cope with what they're feeling now,
than to tackle it full on when they're older and you're convinced you
can't figure out what they're allergic to.
That doesn't mean stop researching. It means put most of your
energies into helping them cope in the situations they have today. If
you give some examples, some people might be able to help.
Joyce
> May I ask what the hesistance to such responses might be? AndAh. I think part of confusion is "don't expect empathy here" sounds
> please know
> these are genuine questions, not meant to be critical at all. Is
> it a fear
> that by validating what may be challening would inadvertantly
> encourage
> people not to ask the hard questions that might allow them to change?
like the owners or regular posters got together and agreed not to
write empathetically.
That's not what happened. No decisions actual were made ;-) But years
ago a core of posters who naturally write straight forward without
the empathy drew readers who liked that style. And the readers stuck
around, continuing to read and then write the way they liked to read.
So, it's not that regular writers are reluctant to offer empathy.
It's that this is a self-selected group that are drawn to an
atmosphere where they don't expect or need empathy.
And then people who do need empathy wander into a vibrant group that
looks like what they need and end up wondering why there's no empathy!
> True, but I can't change where I am with the snap of my fingers.No one would expect instant change. It's a constant process. I've
been unschooling for 13 years and there are still thoughts that trip
me up occasionally. ;-)
I suspect the regular posters see change is not just an ongoing
process but is best when it's an active process. And helping people
to keep on moving forward is what they help with.
> A goal ofDon't hold your breath! ;-)
> me posting is to hear from others if they had felt this way
> and what helpedI'm glad you got some of what you needed.
> them, which some people did and I appreciate very much.
Direct questions do work best on this kind of list, though! :-)
Expectations that a conversation will unfold according to certain
social rules like "Oh, I'm sorry. Here's what I did," tend to lead to
disappointment. Being direct about requests works lots better!
(And you may have done that. Threads about a specific problem are
easier to remember the flow of.)
> Of course, at the end of the day, irregardless of myHow do you know that what you want to do will take care of his needs?
> husband's concerns or school district issues, I worry that this
> isn't the
> best decision for him, that *my* decision to unschool will
> inadvertently not
> take care of his needs.
How do parents know that school will take care of their children's
needs?
We tend to assume that everyone is going along because the thing
they're doing works. But in the case of school or conventional
parenting they're just trusting that it works. They've seen kids come
out of school and go to college and get jobs. (And they assume the
kids who fail are to blame, not the process since it works for others.)
How many adults do you know who are profoundly happy? Who don't feel
trapped by what they spent all that money to acquire (the particular
degree they have). How many adults do you know who jumped through all
the hoops to get to the "American Dream" but have no idea who they
really are? They don't know what they enjoy so they end up just going
along. As they've done since they entered school.
What needs have been taken care of? And which haven't?
Unschooling is different. We aren't trusting that it will lead a
child to a specific place (like college). We know that treating a
child with respect (which means trusting their choices like TV ;-)
creates whole people.
> Again, ime, acceptance of where a person finds themselves is anDepends on the person.
> important
> step toward change.
Some people understand "Wherever you go, there you are." And to move
toward unschooling, it's more useful to focus where they want to be
rather than where they are.
I suspect the people who need to hear "You're okay," don't stick
around lists like this long because the regular posters just aren't
the type who think to hand that kind of feedback out. I know I just
assume it's understood that people are where they are. It's not part
of my psyche to need validation for where I am so it doesn't occur to
me to give it. What I want/need is help on getting where I want to
be. And it's where my brain is when I answer.
> And I find that a mixture of soothing words and validation of theAnd if you stick around long enough to get unschooling in a way that
> messages that people hear every day is a starting point.
you can explain it to others, then that might be part of your natural
style of explaining. :-)
> Sometimes we onlyI think where a lot of the regular posters' heads are at is seeing
> have a short period of time (i.e. woman is "due" in a short time),
> and then
> responses tend to be more pointed with less of the empathic
> responses b/c
> it's decision making time.
kids in the house as the same as being "due". Kids don't have years
for a parent to figure this out. While 38 might not be hugely
different from 36 or 41, for a child, that span of years might be
their whole life if they're 5. An unschooling practice that a parent
is waiting to "get" has been absent from the child's whole life. And
if another 5 years goes by? And other? They're practically grown.
Is that the only way to see things? No. (Though I think the kids
would lean towards the viewpoint of the regular posters ;-) But it is
the kind of help this kind of list gives just because that's the kind
of people who've hung around.
> I guess I don't necessarily think that by changing one'sNot immediately. And the shift is something that consciously needs
> view, that emotions are resolved in the process.
worked at for quite some time. But the more thoughts are pulled up
out of familiar ruts, the easier it gets to keep them out of the ruts.
For example, it's very easy to fall into the rut of reacting with
anger at kids for making deliberate messes, like dumping the whole
tub of Legos out, for instance. If you've got a child who's a dumper,
reacting to his natural inclination with anger, even suppressed anger
that you take somewhere else, is going to have negative effects on
the relationship. Can you just turn that anger off? No, of course
not. But a parent doesn't need to be a slave to it, either. And if
someone had that problem, they could ask here, ask what other parents
did about angers flared by irritation. People might come back with a
slew of ideas that are wide ranging to tackle it from several
direction: do your own dumping and revel in it :-), find smaller
bins, put down a drop cloth and help the child remember to dump
there, smell their hair to remind you how sweet they are :-) and so
on and so on.
It helps a lot to see the anger as something you [general "you"]
don't want. To not see it as something that you just have to put up
with because that's who you are.
> My oldest tends to try to get involved in everything, whichYou might try giving a few typical scenarios. (Preferably in a
> upsets the other two, and gets very offended if I ask him to remove
> himself
> from the situation, no matter how much I thank him for his intent.
separate thread just so it gets its own attention.)
You might try calling him away to do something rather than telling
him to remove himself. If you were trying to get everyone moving in
the direction you thought best and your husband stepped in and told
you to remove yourself, wouldn't you feel miffed?
> He alsogets his feelings hurt very easily which I'm not sure how toEmpathy? Does he maybe feel like you're trying to fix him? Does he
> handle. I try
> to be as gentle as possible, but it doesn't seem to matter.
feel wrong? It's hard to suggest without specific examples.
> I'm quite frankly exhausted trying to research this and that,What if it's just who they are?
> figure out if
> this or that is a symptom of another allergy, finding suitable
> meals and
> snacks, etc.
It might be allergies but it would do them more good to help them
find coping skills rather than seeing some unknown ailment. They are
who they are in the moment, whether it's caused by genetics or food
chemicals. If they're having problems relating to each other, they
need help now, not more research. I'm sure you are helping, but if
your head is in the "I need to find the allergen that's causing this"
mode, then you're not as present with them and what they're feeling
right now as you could be. What if you never do find out? And they're
still having problems at 15? It will serve their future selves a lot
better to help them find ways to cope with what they're feeling now,
than to tackle it full on when they're older and you're convinced you
can't figure out what they're allergic to.
That doesn't mean stop researching. It means put most of your
energies into helping them cope in the situations they have today. If
you give some examples, some people might be able to help.
Joyce
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
As it was for all of us here :-) Just because you're not receiving
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The people in this list are busy. They have full lives, some multiple kids, others full time jobs and most lots of commitments.
There is no time to it for some. Foir others is just not their style.
I don;t have time honestly. I have little kids and I never stop ( check what time I wrote this post!<BWG>)
Speaking for myself I just write in a direct way.
I assume that people asking questions want to change and want straight answers.
I am not a a trained therapist.
Our kids are growing fast.
Many here take time away form their life to write and help others.
I honestly find it somewhat rude that people sometimes come to the list and want to tell others how they should write.,
These are people that are not getting payed to help anyone.
They do it for free and willing. No one has to take the advice. They can choose to not read the posts from people that write in a style they don't like.
When I come here with questions I want to be challenged. I want to get my butt kicked and I want to change NOW.
Some one telling me how great I am doing, or patting me on the back is not going to help me get very far.
I may move a few tenths of a mile .
I want to move miles and miles.
We all get it it is hard. We all struggle everyday. We all had a lot to change. The longer you do it and the more you are willing
to challenge yourself the easier it get.
It seems the OP is open to it<G>
That is great.
Be accepting that people will write they way they will write and not the way you want them to write.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> "Oh, wow, yeah, that was hard," responses, doesn't mean we haven'tMay I ask what the hesistance to such responses might be?
> been through the experience and understand. It doesn't mean it wasn't
> a struggle for some of of the people here.
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The people in this list are busy. They have full lives, some multiple kids, others full time jobs and most lots of commitments.
There is no time to it for some. Foir others is just not their style.
I don;t have time honestly. I have little kids and I never stop ( check what time I wrote this post!<BWG>)
Speaking for myself I just write in a direct way.
I assume that people asking questions want to change and want straight answers.
I am not a a trained therapist.
Our kids are growing fast.
Many here take time away form their life to write and help others.
I honestly find it somewhat rude that people sometimes come to the list and want to tell others how they should write.,
These are people that are not getting payed to help anyone.
They do it for free and willing. No one has to take the advice. They can choose to not read the posts from people that write in a style they don't like.
When I come here with questions I want to be challenged. I want to get my butt kicked and I want to change NOW.
Some one telling me how great I am doing, or patting me on the back is not going to help me get very far.
I may move a few tenths of a mile .
I want to move miles and miles.
We all get it it is hard. We all struggle everyday. We all had a lot to change. The longer you do it and the more you are willing
to challenge yourself the easier it get.
It seems the OP is open to it<G>
That is great.
Be accepting that people will write they way they will write and not the way you want them to write.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lyeping2008
--- In [email protected], "c3_2323"
<craigiecarter@...> wrote:
I asked if he wanted to read one of the Magic Treehouse books
together, and he said yes. I immediately stopped what I was doing
(something I'm not always good at), went over and sat with > him to
read. He grabs the remote and says "you read, I'll watch".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
As you progress forward into your unschooling, you'll find your son
has a very different way of learning. Talk about uniqueness!! It is
only thru unschooling will you see your child's uniqueness unfold and
blossom, without any external intervention.
Think of your child as a Flower. You wouldn't prod and probe a flower
to blossom faster, will you? You won't tell the flower how to bloom
and which petal to bloom first, will you?
So think of your child as a Flower, who knows when and how and which
petal to bloom.
Think of all his tv watching as the many petals unfolding. Think of
all the things he's doing, things you like, things you don't like, as
his many petals unfolding.
You wouldn't tell the flower "Ohh, you're blooming on one side frst,
you should have unfurled sysmentrically on all sides. You're doing it
wrong? I dn't like this flower. It looks funny"
No you won't. You will wait for it to fully bloom because you trust
that it will eventually bloomed into a beautiful flower.
So think of your son as a Flower.
My son is the type that will be doing 2 or 3 different thing at the
same time, like listen to his cartoon show on the tv, build some Lego
and play with his DS at the same time. He does the most wierdest thing
ever, but it is HIS way of making sense and learning all the time.
He does his pocket money talk and "window shopping" in his head with
me while swinging himself on his Dad's exercise machine, counting
money but yet eyes on tv AND on the calorie counter on the machine
LOL!
He turns over in bed during bedtime, listening to me reading him his
stories. It doesn't mean he is not listening, he is just focusing on
something else while listening. And yes, I have read to him while he
played his Lego Star War on his ps2.
In order for me to stand back and not interfere with my child's
blossoming, I had to have the patience and trust to stand back and
wait and observe.
In the beginning, I can't, it's so hard. Every minute of my existance,
I have to stop and examine what I am doing consiously, trying to stay
in spirit of unschooling but yet I'm not feeling that calm and
happiness that comes with it. I'm getting more and more frustrated
with my self. This in turn, spill into fire of resentment, and inturn
nearly burnt my flower.
So I had to stand back, and keep calm before I singe my flower.
So I told myself, this is too tiring and hard work. I can't keep
pretending I'm doing ok because I'm not. Maybe because I haven't
understood this unschooling enough. But I am not giving up. I just had
to figure out a better way so I'm continue reading and learning.
So I'm thinking maybe, DS can continue to occupy himself with whatever
he wants while mummy focus on learning more about unschooling first.
So yes, an Eureka moment- that's what I'll do. I'll learn all I can
about unschooling first, in the first year, before I include DS into
it.
So I took one year sabbatical from being a "do everything right mum",
reading and being with DS, playing and doing whatever he wants and
surprise surprise, my son continuied to bloom and blossom in all
directions, without me doing anything.
When I finally finished exhauting my quench for more info, me and DS
was already living unschooling successfully at month 16, painlessly,
sub-consciously.
So our secret in our success in unschooling really started with me
UNSCHOOLING myself first!!LOL!!
Letting go is the most important part of my unschooling. And I did it
my way, by distracting myself away from needing to do everything
right. But it ws because of my "need to do everything right" that got
me on a different track, away from focusing strongly on DS. Instead, I
was living parellel with my son.
I was doing my "learning", and he was doing his playing and tvs and
ps2. Which is why we can constantly be found sitting side by side
each other on the sofa. In the library, him on the computer playing
online games, me looking for more books. We were doing alot of things
together happily.
There were days I got fed-up of reading, so I suggest we go out
somewhere for a change of scenery- visit friends, playing in the park.
And idea gladly welcomed because I'll was truly enjoying this break,
just as much as him.
As for Hubby, I told him truthfully that I'm still reading up on it,
but to be quite frank, I have no clue what we're doing. I told him
" All I know is that unschooling couldn't possibly do anymore harm
than school did to our son".
"So, while I am doing my unschooling studies, DS will be doing alot of
playing" I told hubby.
"Someone on the list gave me a very good piece of advice - take it 1
year at the time, and at the end of the year, re-assess what you've
done and only then decide if you wanna continue or stop"
And so the 1 year mark was our personal target. This was also a sign
of my hubby's commitment to help with this unschooling business.
We talk alot about unschooling. I know he hasn't got the time to learn
and understand and read about unschooling. He also hasn't got the
luxury to stay at home and see all the little Eurekas that son has
shown me.
I needed him to be involve, to be a partner of this and not sidelined,
thinking it is my duty since I'm the one staying at home and the
mother.
I got hubby involved in a sort of sneaky way but truly, my eyes were
hurting from too much reading off the laptop, so I asked if he could
be kind enough to print out the unschooling stuff that I've emailed to
him. I've have snuck in stuffs that I need him to "glance thu" like
deschooling and tv stuffs LOL!
This way gave my hubby a glimpse of hwat everyone is doing unschooling
wise, and also confidence that I am DOING/ working towards something.
But I had many opportunity along the way to point out all those
fantastic and interesting things that DS did to hubby. It wasn't
difficult becuase everything DS did, without any of my intervention or
instigation, is surprising and amazing enough to catch our attention.
And I'm not talking about doing maths or science experiments or any
other scholarly feats.
I'm talking about my child repeating what he saw on tv to hubby.
My child is talking non stop. He is a walking encyclopedia.
He's constantly informing us about his understanding and discovery
from comparison about time zone to the Lego building he made, to his
character on Grand Theft Auto rescuing other characters from being
rob.
My child had many "spider pets" in our garden. He will find bugs or
caterpillars to feed each and every spider that can be found in our
garden. And about the bumble bees on our Lavender bush.
His understanding that him mummy and daddy each had very different tv
shows that we like, and he's happy to watch it all too. He sets tv
reminders for us all.
He's into burning stuff the past 2 months and is having lots of fun
doing it and informing us of all his discoveries.
This is what I mean, stand back, and watching your child unfold his
trueself to you.
Today, my hubby is a true believer of unschooling. He will talk
confidently to anyone about unschooling and our child's amazing self.
A big change for someone who believed "rules are rules, and need to be
followed" LOL!!
After 23 months of unschooling, I still get hick-ups here and there
occasionally. But I understood the problem lies in me, and not my
child. And it normally starts when I start "expecting something" LOL!
Hope this helps.
Best Wishes,
SharonBugs.
<craigiecarter@...> wrote:
I asked if he wanted to read one of the Magic Treehouse books
together, and he said yes. I immediately stopped what I was doing
(something I'm not always good at), went over and sat with > him to
read. He grabs the remote and says "you read, I'll watch".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
As you progress forward into your unschooling, you'll find your son
has a very different way of learning. Talk about uniqueness!! It is
only thru unschooling will you see your child's uniqueness unfold and
blossom, without any external intervention.
Think of your child as a Flower. You wouldn't prod and probe a flower
to blossom faster, will you? You won't tell the flower how to bloom
and which petal to bloom first, will you?
So think of your child as a Flower, who knows when and how and which
petal to bloom.
Think of all his tv watching as the many petals unfolding. Think of
all the things he's doing, things you like, things you don't like, as
his many petals unfolding.
You wouldn't tell the flower "Ohh, you're blooming on one side frst,
you should have unfurled sysmentrically on all sides. You're doing it
wrong? I dn't like this flower. It looks funny"
No you won't. You will wait for it to fully bloom because you trust
that it will eventually bloomed into a beautiful flower.
So think of your son as a Flower.
My son is the type that will be doing 2 or 3 different thing at the
same time, like listen to his cartoon show on the tv, build some Lego
and play with his DS at the same time. He does the most wierdest thing
ever, but it is HIS way of making sense and learning all the time.
He does his pocket money talk and "window shopping" in his head with
me while swinging himself on his Dad's exercise machine, counting
money but yet eyes on tv AND on the calorie counter on the machine
LOL!
He turns over in bed during bedtime, listening to me reading him his
stories. It doesn't mean he is not listening, he is just focusing on
something else while listening. And yes, I have read to him while he
played his Lego Star War on his ps2.
In order for me to stand back and not interfere with my child's
blossoming, I had to have the patience and trust to stand back and
wait and observe.
In the beginning, I can't, it's so hard. Every minute of my existance,
I have to stop and examine what I am doing consiously, trying to stay
in spirit of unschooling but yet I'm not feeling that calm and
happiness that comes with it. I'm getting more and more frustrated
with my self. This in turn, spill into fire of resentment, and inturn
nearly burnt my flower.
So I had to stand back, and keep calm before I singe my flower.
So I told myself, this is too tiring and hard work. I can't keep
pretending I'm doing ok because I'm not. Maybe because I haven't
understood this unschooling enough. But I am not giving up. I just had
to figure out a better way so I'm continue reading and learning.
So I'm thinking maybe, DS can continue to occupy himself with whatever
he wants while mummy focus on learning more about unschooling first.
So yes, an Eureka moment- that's what I'll do. I'll learn all I can
about unschooling first, in the first year, before I include DS into
it.
So I took one year sabbatical from being a "do everything right mum",
reading and being with DS, playing and doing whatever he wants and
surprise surprise, my son continuied to bloom and blossom in all
directions, without me doing anything.
When I finally finished exhauting my quench for more info, me and DS
was already living unschooling successfully at month 16, painlessly,
sub-consciously.
So our secret in our success in unschooling really started with me
UNSCHOOLING myself first!!LOL!!
Letting go is the most important part of my unschooling. And I did it
my way, by distracting myself away from needing to do everything
right. But it ws because of my "need to do everything right" that got
me on a different track, away from focusing strongly on DS. Instead, I
was living parellel with my son.
I was doing my "learning", and he was doing his playing and tvs and
ps2. Which is why we can constantly be found sitting side by side
each other on the sofa. In the library, him on the computer playing
online games, me looking for more books. We were doing alot of things
together happily.
There were days I got fed-up of reading, so I suggest we go out
somewhere for a change of scenery- visit friends, playing in the park.
And idea gladly welcomed because I'll was truly enjoying this break,
just as much as him.
As for Hubby, I told him truthfully that I'm still reading up on it,
but to be quite frank, I have no clue what we're doing. I told him
" All I know is that unschooling couldn't possibly do anymore harm
than school did to our son".
"So, while I am doing my unschooling studies, DS will be doing alot of
playing" I told hubby.
"Someone on the list gave me a very good piece of advice - take it 1
year at the time, and at the end of the year, re-assess what you've
done and only then decide if you wanna continue or stop"
And so the 1 year mark was our personal target. This was also a sign
of my hubby's commitment to help with this unschooling business.
We talk alot about unschooling. I know he hasn't got the time to learn
and understand and read about unschooling. He also hasn't got the
luxury to stay at home and see all the little Eurekas that son has
shown me.
I needed him to be involve, to be a partner of this and not sidelined,
thinking it is my duty since I'm the one staying at home and the
mother.
I got hubby involved in a sort of sneaky way but truly, my eyes were
hurting from too much reading off the laptop, so I asked if he could
be kind enough to print out the unschooling stuff that I've emailed to
him. I've have snuck in stuffs that I need him to "glance thu" like
deschooling and tv stuffs LOL!
This way gave my hubby a glimpse of hwat everyone is doing unschooling
wise, and also confidence that I am DOING/ working towards something.
But I had many opportunity along the way to point out all those
fantastic and interesting things that DS did to hubby. It wasn't
difficult becuase everything DS did, without any of my intervention or
instigation, is surprising and amazing enough to catch our attention.
And I'm not talking about doing maths or science experiments or any
other scholarly feats.
I'm talking about my child repeating what he saw on tv to hubby.
My child is talking non stop. He is a walking encyclopedia.
He's constantly informing us about his understanding and discovery
from comparison about time zone to the Lego building he made, to his
character on Grand Theft Auto rescuing other characters from being
rob.
My child had many "spider pets" in our garden. He will find bugs or
caterpillars to feed each and every spider that can be found in our
garden. And about the bumble bees on our Lavender bush.
His understanding that him mummy and daddy each had very different tv
shows that we like, and he's happy to watch it all too. He sets tv
reminders for us all.
He's into burning stuff the past 2 months and is having lots of fun
doing it and informing us of all his discoveries.
This is what I mean, stand back, and watching your child unfold his
trueself to you.
Today, my hubby is a true believer of unschooling. He will talk
confidently to anyone about unschooling and our child's amazing self.
A big change for someone who believed "rules are rules, and need to be
followed" LOL!!
After 23 months of unschooling, I still get hick-ups here and there
occasionally. But I understood the problem lies in me, and not my
child. And it normally starts when I start "expecting something" LOL!
Hope this helps.
Best Wishes,
SharonBugs.
Christie Craigie-Carter
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:03 PM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>wrote:
understand and to do some "hand-holding".
How do parents know that school will take care of their children's
needs?
We tend to assume that everyone is going along because the thing
they're doing works. But in the case of school or conventional
parenting they're just trusting that it works. They've seen kids come
out of school and go to college and get jobs. (And they assume the
kids who fail are to blame, not the process since it works for others.)
How many adults do you know who are profoundly happy? Who don't feel
trapped by what they spent all that money to acquire (the particular
degree they have). How many adults do you know who jumped through all
the hoops to get to the "American Dream" but have no idea who they
really are? They don't know what they enjoy so they end up just going
along. As they've done since they entered school.
What needs have been taken care of? And which haven't?>>>>>
Thanks so much for those questions!!!! They are so incredibly helpful to my
process. You're absolutely right--his needs weren't being met in school,
they weren't being met by traditional "school at home" and they aren't being
met by the way we have been relating to him. As a funny aside, we are
currently watching Fetch with Ruff Ruffman (a PBS show) and I'm typing away
to you all. Funny how I thought it was perfectly okay to be "present" with
him in this way, but it was too distracting for him to play with something
while I read. Hmm. So much food for thought.
<<<Unschooling is different. We aren't trusting that it will lead a
child to a specific place (like college). We know that treating a
child with respect (which means trusting their choices like TV ;-)
creates whole people.>>>
Thanks again for sharing your perspective. You've given me so much to think
about.
Some people understand "Wherever you go, there you are." And to move
toward unschooling, it's more useful to focus where they want to be
rather than where they are.
I suspect the people who need to hear "You're okay," don't stick
around lists like this long because the regular posters just aren't
the type who think to hand that kind of feedback out. I know I just
assume it's understood that people are where they are. It's not part
of my psyche to need validation for where I am so it doesn't occur to
me to give it. What I want/need is help on getting where I want to
be. And it's where my brain is when I answer.>>
you can explain it to others, then that might be part of your natural
style of explaining. :-)>>
For sure.
kids in the house as the same as being "due". Kids don't have years
for a parent to figure this out. While 38 might not be hugely
different from 36 or 41, for a child, that span of years might be
their whole life if they're 5. An unschooling practice that a parent
is waiting to "get" has been absent from the child's whole life. And
if another 5 years goes by? And other? They're practically grown.
Is that the only way to see things? No. (Though I think the kids
would lean towards the viewpoint of the regular posters ;-) But it is
the kind of help this kind of list gives just because that's the kind
of people who've hung around.>>
This intrigues me so much. I sometimes feel like I'm on a rollercoaster. My
visceral response to the first paragraph above was that pit in the stomach
feeling, that somehow I'm damaging my kids by not learning fast enough. I
literally have to fight the voices of the majority in my head, which of
course say that they won't have the advantages of unschooling in "the real
world". Even though I'm always countering with the general concept that
just b/c "the real world" won't be like our family necessarily, doesn't mean
I can't give them what I'm capable of now. If you knew the stories of my
family of origin....oh my. So, I'm constantly filtering incoming
information through different sieves, if you will.
For now, I'm working on the "fake it til you make it" piece.
worked at for quite some time. But the more thoughts are pulled up
out of familiar ruts, the easier it gets to keep them out of the ruts.
For example, it's very easy to fall into the rut of reacting with
anger at kids for making deliberate messes, like dumping the whole
tub of Legos out, for instance. If you've got a child who's a dumper,
reacting to his natural inclination with anger, even suppressed anger
that you take somewhere else, is going to have negative effects on
the relationship. Can you just turn that anger off? No, of course
not. But a parent doesn't need to be a slave to it, either. And if
someone had that problem, they could ask here, ask what other parents
did about angers flared by irritation. People might come back with a
slew of ideas that are wide ranging to tackle it from several
direction: do your own dumping and revel in it :-), find smaller
bins, put down a drop cloth and help the child remember to dump
there, smell their hair to remind you how sweet they are :-) and so
on and so on.
It helps a lot to see the anger as something you [general "you"]
don't want. To not see it as something that you just have to put up
with because that's who you are.>>>>>>>
Very, very helpful. Thanks so much!
separate thread just so it gets its own attention.)>>
I will, thanks!!!
<<You might try calling him away to do something rather than telling
him to remove himself. If you were trying to get everyone moving in
the direction you thought best and your husband stepped in and told
you to remove yourself, wouldn't you feel miffed?>>
Yes, come to think of it, when I have done this, it has worked much better.
This may sound funny, and not sure I can articulate it well, but I guess
I've believed in being totally honest, and this has felt a bit manipulative
when I do this. To give another example, I'm honest almost to a fault. I
can't remember the exact example, but he had asked me once if something
could happen. The typical response is to reassure your child that all will
be okay. That didn't feel totally honest, so I admitted that there could be
exceptions. My dh thought that was waay over the top. Did I mention I am
literal and a need to know person ;-)? But, no, I think those are great
ideas. Sometimes I definitely get in the way of myself.
feel wrong? It's hard to suggest without specific examples.>>
I'll try to come up with specific examples, but yes, I think he feels
"wrong" most of the time. And I feel stuck when there are things that need
to be re-directed (like him scaring the dog, or slamming the door with his
brother right there).
It might be allergies but it would do them more good to help them
find coping skills rather than seeing some unknown ailment. They are
who they are in the moment, whether it's caused by genetics or food
chemicals. If they're having problems relating to each other, they
need help now, not more research. I'm sure you are helping, but if
your head is in the "I need to find the allergen that's causing this"
mode, then you're not as present with them and what they're feeling
right now as you could be. What if you never do find out? And they're
still having problems at 15? It will serve their future selves a lot
better to help them find ways to cope with what they're feeling now,
than to tackle it full on when they're older and you're convinced you
can't figure out what they're allergic to.
That doesn't mean stop researching. It means put most of your
energies into helping them cope in the situations they have today. If
you give some examples, some people might be able to help.>>>
Oh, fwiw, when it comes to behavioral manifestations of allergies, I've
pretty much tabled that for another time. I focus on the immediate concerns
which are whether the foods they are eating are damaging their bodies. My
youngest has symptoms of food allergies which could become life-threatening,
and I feel it is very important to figure those out. I do at times wonder
if my oldest might react to corn and dyes, etc, but for now, I've chosen to
accept him as he is and not try to change it. So, I do try to find a
balance too and keep it in perspective.
Again, I will try to come up with examples.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!
Christie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Thanks for giving me a bit of history. It helps me to understand.
> On Oct 31, 2008, at 4:33 PM, Christie Craigie-Carter wrote:
>
> > May I ask what the hesistance to such responses might be? And
> > please know
> > these are genuine questions, not meant to be critical at all. Is
> > it a fear
> > that by validating what may be challening would inadvertantly
> > encourage
> > people not to ask the hard questions that might allow them to change?
>
> <<<<<Ah. I think part of confusion is "don't expect empathy here" sounds
> like the owners or regular posters got together and agreed not to
> write empathetically.
>
> That's not what happened. No decisions actual were made ;-) But years
> ago a core of posters who naturally write straight forward without
> the empathy drew readers who liked that style. And the readers stuck
> around, continuing to read and then write the way they liked to read.>>>>
>
>Yes.
>
> <<<<So, it's not that regular writers are reluctant to offer empathy.
> It's that this is a self-selected group that are drawn to an
> atmosphere where they don't expect or need empathy.>>>>>
>
>
>
> Okay.
>
>
> <<And then people who do need empathy wander into a vibrant group that
> looks like what they need and end up wondering why there's no empathy.>>
>
> True, but I can't change where I am with the snap of my fingers.<<<<<No one would expect instant change. It's a constant process. I've
> been unschooling for 13 years and there are still thoughts that tripVery helpful, thanks. I really appreciate your willingness to help me
> me up occasionally. ;-)>>>>>>
>
understand and to do some "hand-holding".
>Absolutely, change is an ongoing, active process.
>
> <<<<I suspect the regular posters see change is not just an ongoing
> process but is best when it's an active process. And helping people
> to keep on moving forward is what they help with.>>>>
>
>Yes, I have, thanks.
>
> > A goal of
> > me posting is to hear from others if they had felt this way
>
> <<<Don't hold your breath! ;-)>>
>
> > and what helped
> > them, which some people did and I appreciate very much.
>
> <<I'm glad you got some of what you needed.>>
>
>I'll keep this in mind.
>
> <<Direct questions do work best on this kind of list, though! :-)
> Expectations that a conversation will unfold according to certain
> social rules like "Oh, I'm sorry. Here's what I did," tend to lead to
> disappointment. Being direct about requests works lots better!>>
>
> Of course, at the end of the day, irregardless of my<<<<How do you know that what you want to do will take care of his needs?
> husband's concerns or school district issues, I worry that this
> isn't the
> best decision for him, that *my* decision to unschool will
> inadvertently not
> take care of his needs.
How do parents know that school will take care of their children's
needs?
We tend to assume that everyone is going along because the thing
they're doing works. But in the case of school or conventional
parenting they're just trusting that it works. They've seen kids come
out of school and go to college and get jobs. (And they assume the
kids who fail are to blame, not the process since it works for others.)
How many adults do you know who are profoundly happy? Who don't feel
trapped by what they spent all that money to acquire (the particular
degree they have). How many adults do you know who jumped through all
the hoops to get to the "American Dream" but have no idea who they
really are? They don't know what they enjoy so they end up just going
along. As they've done since they entered school.
What needs have been taken care of? And which haven't?>>>>>
Thanks so much for those questions!!!! They are so incredibly helpful to my
process. You're absolutely right--his needs weren't being met in school,
they weren't being met by traditional "school at home" and they aren't being
met by the way we have been relating to him. As a funny aside, we are
currently watching Fetch with Ruff Ruffman (a PBS show) and I'm typing away
to you all. Funny how I thought it was perfectly okay to be "present" with
him in this way, but it was too distracting for him to play with something
while I read. Hmm. So much food for thought.
<<<Unschooling is different. We aren't trusting that it will lead a
child to a specific place (like college). We know that treating a
child with respect (which means trusting their choices like TV ;-)
creates whole people.>>>
Thanks again for sharing your perspective. You've given me so much to think
about.
> Again, ime, acceptance of where a person finds themselves is an<<Depends on the person.
> important
> step toward change.
Some people understand "Wherever you go, there you are." And to move
toward unschooling, it's more useful to focus where they want to be
rather than where they are.
I suspect the people who need to hear "You're okay," don't stick
around lists like this long because the regular posters just aren't
the type who think to hand that kind of feedback out. I know I just
assume it's understood that people are where they are. It's not part
of my psyche to need validation for where I am so it doesn't occur to
me to give it. What I want/need is help on getting where I want to
be. And it's where my brain is when I answer.>>
> And I find that a mixture of soothing words and validation of the<<And if you stick around long enough to get unschooling in a way that
> messages that people hear every day is a starting point.
you can explain it to others, then that might be part of your natural
style of explaining. :-)>>
For sure.
> Sometimes we only<<I think where a lot of the regular posters' heads are at is seeing
> have a short period of time (i.e. woman is "due" in a short time),
> and then
> responses tend to be more pointed with less of the empathic
> responses b/c
> it's decision making time.
kids in the house as the same as being "due". Kids don't have years
for a parent to figure this out. While 38 might not be hugely
different from 36 or 41, for a child, that span of years might be
their whole life if they're 5. An unschooling practice that a parent
is waiting to "get" has been absent from the child's whole life. And
if another 5 years goes by? And other? They're practically grown.
Is that the only way to see things? No. (Though I think the kids
would lean towards the viewpoint of the regular posters ;-) But it is
the kind of help this kind of list gives just because that's the kind
of people who've hung around.>>
This intrigues me so much. I sometimes feel like I'm on a rollercoaster. My
visceral response to the first paragraph above was that pit in the stomach
feeling, that somehow I'm damaging my kids by not learning fast enough. I
literally have to fight the voices of the majority in my head, which of
course say that they won't have the advantages of unschooling in "the real
world". Even though I'm always countering with the general concept that
just b/c "the real world" won't be like our family necessarily, doesn't mean
I can't give them what I'm capable of now. If you knew the stories of my
family of origin....oh my. So, I'm constantly filtering incoming
information through different sieves, if you will.
For now, I'm working on the "fake it til you make it" piece.
> I guess I don't necessarily think that by changing one's<<<<<<Not immediately. And the shift is something that consciously needs
> view, that emotions are resolved in the process.
worked at for quite some time. But the more thoughts are pulled up
out of familiar ruts, the easier it gets to keep them out of the ruts.
For example, it's very easy to fall into the rut of reacting with
anger at kids for making deliberate messes, like dumping the whole
tub of Legos out, for instance. If you've got a child who's a dumper,
reacting to his natural inclination with anger, even suppressed anger
that you take somewhere else, is going to have negative effects on
the relationship. Can you just turn that anger off? No, of course
not. But a parent doesn't need to be a slave to it, either. And if
someone had that problem, they could ask here, ask what other parents
did about angers flared by irritation. People might come back with a
slew of ideas that are wide ranging to tackle it from several
direction: do your own dumping and revel in it :-), find smaller
bins, put down a drop cloth and help the child remember to dump
there, smell their hair to remind you how sweet they are :-) and so
on and so on.
It helps a lot to see the anger as something you [general "you"]
don't want. To not see it as something that you just have to put up
with because that's who you are.>>>>>>>
Very, very helpful. Thanks so much!
> My oldest tends to try to get involved in everything, which<<You might try giving a few typical scenarios. (Preferably in a
> upsets the other two, and gets very offended if I ask him to remove
> himself
> from the situation, no matter how much I thank him for his intent.
separate thread just so it gets its own attention.)>>
I will, thanks!!!
<<You might try calling him away to do something rather than telling
him to remove himself. If you were trying to get everyone moving in
the direction you thought best and your husband stepped in and told
you to remove yourself, wouldn't you feel miffed?>>
Yes, come to think of it, when I have done this, it has worked much better.
This may sound funny, and not sure I can articulate it well, but I guess
I've believed in being totally honest, and this has felt a bit manipulative
when I do this. To give another example, I'm honest almost to a fault. I
can't remember the exact example, but he had asked me once if something
could happen. The typical response is to reassure your child that all will
be okay. That didn't feel totally honest, so I admitted that there could be
exceptions. My dh thought that was waay over the top. Did I mention I am
literal and a need to know person ;-)? But, no, I think those are great
ideas. Sometimes I definitely get in the way of myself.
> He alsogets his feelings hurt very easily which I'm not sure how to<<Empathy? Does he maybe feel like you're trying to fix him? Does he
> handle. I try
> to be as gentle as possible, but it doesn't seem to matter.
feel wrong? It's hard to suggest without specific examples.>>
I'll try to come up with specific examples, but yes, I think he feels
"wrong" most of the time. And I feel stuck when there are things that need
to be re-directed (like him scaring the dog, or slamming the door with his
brother right there).
> I'm quite frankly exhausted trying to research this and that,<<<<<<What if it's just who they are?
> figure out if
> this or that is a symptom of another allergy, finding suitable
> meals and
> snacks, etc.
It might be allergies but it would do them more good to help them
find coping skills rather than seeing some unknown ailment. They are
who they are in the moment, whether it's caused by genetics or food
chemicals. If they're having problems relating to each other, they
need help now, not more research. I'm sure you are helping, but if
your head is in the "I need to find the allergen that's causing this"
mode, then you're not as present with them and what they're feeling
right now as you could be. What if you never do find out? And they're
still having problems at 15? It will serve their future selves a lot
better to help them find ways to cope with what they're feeling now,
than to tackle it full on when they're older and you're convinced you
can't figure out what they're allergic to.
That doesn't mean stop researching. It means put most of your
energies into helping them cope in the situations they have today. If
you give some examples, some people might be able to help.>>>
Oh, fwiw, when it comes to behavioral manifestations of allergies, I've
pretty much tabled that for another time. I focus on the immediate concerns
which are whether the foods they are eating are damaging their bodies. My
youngest has symptoms of food allergies which could become life-threatening,
and I feel it is very important to figure those out. I do at times wonder
if my oldest might react to corn and dyes, etc, but for now, I've chosen to
accept him as he is and not try to change it. So, I do try to find a
balance too and keep it in perspective.
Again, I will try to come up with examples.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!
Christie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christie Craigie-Carter
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:47 AM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...
that people who don't have time to respond, won't. You all may remember
that it took me a good 2 weeks to respond to the group replies to my intro.
And sometimes, I might not get to responding.
As for being rude, that is never my intent. Nor would I ever tell people
what to write. I was offering feedback on how I learn best, and what I've
observed over my years of participating in yahoo groups of all types (ICAN,
Celiac and foodallergy groups, sexual abuse groups, and birth trauma groups
etc.)
replies just aren't worth the rise in my bp ;-) even though I felt rude not
reading what they wrote.
they feel like a child's health is at stake, they tend not to be very
empathic. I go there for the reality check, but also for a reminder that
there is another side of this frustration I'm experiencing atm. But I also
see the value of validation that it can be frustrating when you can't figure
out what's going on.
helped me to understand the approach of the group.
Thanks for your reply!
Christie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> wrote:I'm honestly not sure how to respond. Of course everyone is busy. I assume
> As it was for all of us here :-) Just because you're not receiving
> > "Oh, wow, yeah, that was hard," responses, doesn't mean we haven't
> > been through the experience and understand. It doesn't mean it wasn't
> > a struggle for some of of the people here.
> >
>
> May I ask what the hesistance to such responses might be?
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> The people in this list are busy. They have full lives, some multiple kids,
> others full time jobs and most lots of commitments.
> There is no time to it for some. Foir others is just not their style.
> I don;t have time honestly. I have little kids and I never stop ( check
> what time I wrote this post!<BWG>)
> Speaking for myself I just write in a direct way.
> I assume that people asking questions want to change and want straight
> answers.
> I am not a a trained therapist.
> Our kids are growing fast.
> Many here take time away form their life to write and help others.
> I honestly find it somewhat rude that people sometimes come to the list and
> want to tell others how they should write.,
> These are people that are not getting payed to help anyone.
>
that people who don't have time to respond, won't. You all may remember
that it took me a good 2 weeks to respond to the group replies to my intro.
And sometimes, I might not get to responding.
As for being rude, that is never my intent. Nor would I ever tell people
what to write. I was offering feedback on how I learn best, and what I've
observed over my years of participating in yahoo groups of all types (ICAN,
Celiac and foodallergy groups, sexual abuse groups, and birth trauma groups
etc.)
>Yes, I do this all the time. I've learned over the years that some people's
> They do it for free and willing. No one has to take the advice. They
> can choose to not read the posts from people that write in a style they
> don't like.
>
replies just aren't worth the rise in my bp ;-) even though I felt rude not
reading what they wrote.
>If it helps, I had the same responses to one of my food allergy groups. B/c
> When I come here with questions I want to be challenged. I want to get my
> butt kicked and I want to change NOW.
> Some one telling me how great I am doing, or patting me on the back is not
> going to help me get very far.
>
they feel like a child's health is at stake, they tend not to be very
empathic. I go there for the reality check, but also for a reminder that
there is another side of this frustration I'm experiencing atm. But I also
see the value of validation that it can be frustrating when you can't figure
out what's going on.
>Sure, I'm very open. I'm scared but excited. These conversations have
> I may move a few tenths of a mile .
> I want to move miles and miles.
> We all get it it is hard. We all struggle everyday. We all had a lot to
> change. The longer you do it and the more you are willing
> to challenge yourself the easier it get.
> It seems the OP is open to it<G>
> That is great.
> Be accepting that people will write they way they will write and not the
> way you want them to write.
>
helped me to understand the approach of the group.
Thanks for your reply!
Christie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christie Craigie-Carter
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 7:40 AM, lyeping2008 <lyeping2008@...> wrote:
somewhat recently, but in the past few days, I'm feeling more calm and a lot
of that is hearing about your experiences and knowledge.
be where I'm at.
talks about the great benefits she received when her dh got a job across the
country so she unenrolled in many of her grad classes and focused on the
ones she enjoyed. She was no longer a slave to her schedule. So, with
trepidation, I look to let go.
also got together with a friend who has been having some marriage
difficulties. It put so much into perspective. I came home, gave him a big
long hug and we reconnected. I had already shared that many of you
expressed empathy for him (which I shared as well, but it gave me a
conversation starter, lol), and I reminded him that he always knew I was
"different", lol, but that I know this has all been a change for him, all of
us really.
"what if this isn't working for him and I don't see it?", yk?
attitude that it doesn't matter what he thinks. Which, quite frankly, is a
big part of the problem between us. He doesn't articulate well, but I've
gathered that he feels this way too. So, I just keep assuring him that it
does matter, I am listening, but I am also listening to our son and trying
to do what is best for him. I keep driving that point home.
comes up with 9 times 3 is 27, which he learned on Ruff Ruffman. My husband
has started to recognize how much information he gains from the shows he
watches.
do you know that?". Yesterday, he explained to me how the street sweeper
works. He said he figured it out from watching it. I dont' know for sure,
but he sure sounds like he understands how it works.
trueself to you.
Today, my hubby is a true believer of unschooling. He will talk
confidently to anyone about unschooling and our child's amazing self.
A big change for someone who believed "rules are rules, and need to be
followed" LOL!!>>
Maybe my dh will get there too. He became quite the homebirth proponent
after we had our youngest at home. A couple of years before, he had said
"you can have a homebirth and I'll go to the hospital". If you ask him, he
would just say he would pefere the status quo.
<<After 23 months of unschooling, I still get hick-ups here and there
occasionally. But I understood the problem lies in me, and not my
child. And it normally starts when I start "expecting something" LOL! >>
Yes, I will have challenges about expectations. They are pretty deeply
ingrained that even though I recognize the fallacy, I find myself expecting
(really wishing). But if I have fewer expectations of myself, that "should"
help.
Hope this helps.
Very much, Thanks!!!
Christie
> --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,I'm excited about this!
> "c3_2323"
> <craigiecarter@...> wrote:
> I asked if he wanted to read one of the Magic Treehouse books
> together, and he said yes. I immediately stopped what I was doing
> (something I'm not always good at), went over and sat with > him to
> read. He grabs the remote and says "you read, I'll watch".
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> As you progress forward into your unschooling, you'll find your son
> has a very different way of learning. Talk about uniqueness!! It is
> only thru unschooling will you see your child's uniqueness unfold and
> blossom, without any external intervention.
>
>Thanks for the analogy.
>
> Think of your child as a Flower. You wouldn't prod and probe a flower
> to blossom faster, will you? You won't tell the flower how to bloom
> and which petal to bloom first, will you?
>
> So think of your child as a Flower, who knows when and how and which
> petal to bloom.
>
> Think of all his tv watching as the many petals unfolding. Think of
> all the things he's doing, things you like, things you don't like, as
> his many petals unfolding.
>
> You wouldn't tell the flower "Ohh, you're blooming on one side frst,
> you should have unfurled sysmentrically on all sides. You're doing it
> wrong? I dn't like this flower. It looks funny"
>
> No you won't. You will wait for it to fully bloom because you trust
> that it will eventually bloomed into a beautiful flower.
>
>Yes, I understand. I think this is where I was a few months ago and even
>
> So think of your son as a Flower.
>
> My son is the type that will be doing 2 or 3 different thing at the
> same time, like listen to his cartoon show on the tv, build some Lego
> and play with his DS at the same time. He does the most wierdest thing
> ever, but it is HIS way of making sense and learning all the time.
>
> He does his pocket money talk and "window shopping" in his head with
> me while swinging himself on his Dad's exercise machine, counting
> money but yet eyes on tv AND on the calorie counter on the machine
> LOL!
>
> He turns over in bed during bedtime, listening to me reading him his
> stories. It doesn't mean he is not listening, he is just focusing on
> something else while listening. And yes, I have read to him while he
> played his Lego Star War on his ps2.
>
> In order for me to stand back and not interfere with my child's
> blossoming, I had to have the patience and trust to stand back and
> wait and observe.
>
> In the beginning, I can't, it's so hard. Every minute of my existance,
> I have to stop and examine what I am doing consiously, trying to stay
> in spirit of unschooling but yet I'm not feeling that calm and
> happiness that comes with it. I'm getting more and more frustrated
> with my self. This in turn, spill into fire of resentment, and inturn
> nearly burnt my flower.
>
somewhat recently, but in the past few days, I'm feeling more calm and a lot
of that is hearing about your experiences and knowledge.
>Good idea, thanks! Silly as it sounds, I need to give myself permission to
>
> So I had to stand back, and keep calm before I singe my flower.
>
> So I told myself, this is too tiring and hard work. I can't keep
> pretending I'm doing ok because I'm not. Maybe because I haven't
> understood this unschooling enough. But I am not giving up. I just had
> to figure out a better way so I'm continue reading and learning.
>
> So I'm thinking maybe, DS can continue to occupy himself with whatever
> he wants while mummy focus on learning more about unschooling first.
>
be where I'm at.
>I know this is huge. Tammy Takahashi (sp?) who wrote Deschooling Gently,
>
> So yes, an Eureka moment- that's what I'll do. I'll learn all I can
> about unschooling first, in the first year, before I include DS into
> it.
>
> So I took one year sabbatical from being a "do everything right mum",
> reading and being with DS, playing and doing whatever he wants and
> surprise surprise, my son continuied to bloom and blossom in all
> directions, without me doing anything.
>
> When I finally finished exhauting my quench for more info, me and DS
> was already living unschooling successfully at month 16, painlessly,
> sub-consciously.
>
> So our secret in our success in unschooling really started with me
> UNSCHOOLING myself first!!LOL!!
>
talks about the great benefits she received when her dh got a job across the
country so she unenrolled in many of her grad classes and focused on the
ones she enjoyed. She was no longer a slave to her schedule. So, with
trepidation, I look to let go.
>Thanks so much for sharing your experience.
>
> Letting go is the most important part of my unschooling. And I did it
> my way, by distracting myself away from needing to do everything
> right. But it ws because of my "need to do everything right" that got
> me on a different track, away from focusing strongly on DS. Instead, I
> was living parellel with my son.
>
> I was doing my "learning", and he was doing his playing and tvs and
> ps2. Which is why we can constantly be found sitting side by side
> each other on the sofa. In the library, him on the computer playing
> online games, me looking for more books. We were doing alot of things
> together happily.
>
> There were days I got fed-up of reading, so I suggest we go out
> somewhere for a change of scenery- visit friends, playing in the park.
> And idea gladly welcomed because I'll was truly enjoying this break,
> just as much as him.
>
>Thanks. I took a lot away from what manyof you suggested. Yesterday, I
>
> As for Hubby, I told him truthfully that I'm still reading up on it,
> but to be quite frank, I have no clue what we're doing. I told him
>
> " All I know is that unschooling couldn't possibly do anymore harm
> than school did to our son".
>
> "So, while I am doing my unschooling studies, DS will be doing alot of
> playing" I told hubby.
>
also got together with a friend who has been having some marriage
difficulties. It put so much into perspective. I came home, gave him a big
long hug and we reconnected. I had already shared that many of you
expressed empathy for him (which I shared as well, but it gave me a
conversation starter, lol), and I reminded him that he always knew I was
"different", lol, but that I know this has all been a change for him, all of
us really.
>I really like this. I guess that's what I need to alleviate the panic of
>
> "Someone on the list gave me a very good piece of advice - take it 1
> year at the time, and at the end of the year, re-assess what you've
> done and only then decide if you wanna continue or stop"
>
"what if this isn't working for him and I don't see it?", yk?
>Thank you for saying this. Truly. A lot of people seem to have the
>
> And so the 1 year mark was our personal target. This was also a sign
> of my hubby's commitment to help with this unschooling business.
>
> We talk alot about unschooling. I know he hasn't got the time to learn
> and understand and read about unschooling. He also hasn't got the
> luxury to stay at home and see all the little Eurekas that son has
> shown me.
>
> I needed him to be involve, to be a partner of this and not sidelined,
> thinking it is my duty since I'm the one staying at home and the
> mother.
>
attitude that it doesn't matter what he thinks. Which, quite frankly, is a
big part of the problem between us. He doesn't articulate well, but I've
gathered that he feels this way too. So, I just keep assuring him that it
does matter, I am listening, but I am also listening to our son and trying
to do what is best for him. I keep driving that point home.
>I read him snippets from the book. I also make sure he knows when Josh
>
> I got hubby involved in a sort of sneaky way but truly, my eyes were
> hurting from too much reading off the laptop, so I asked if he could
> be kind enough to print out the unschooling stuff that I've emailed to
> him. I've have snuck in stuffs that I need him to "glance thu" like
> deschooling and tv stuffs LOL!
>
comes up with 9 times 3 is 27, which he learned on Ruff Ruffman. My husband
has started to recognize how much information he gains from the shows he
watches.
>Yes, Josh frequently comes out with things and we look at him and say "how
>
> This way gave my hubby a glimpse of hwat everyone is doing unschooling
> wise, and also confidence that I am DOING/ working towards something.
>
> But I had many opportunity along the way to point out all those
> fantastic and interesting things that DS did to hubby. It wasn't
> difficult becuase everything DS did, without any of my intervention or
> instigation, is surprising and amazing enough to catch our attention.
>
> And I'm not talking about doing maths or science experiments or any
> other scholarly feats.
>
> I'm talking about my child repeating what he saw on tv to hubby.
>
> My child is talking non stop. He is a walking encyclopedia.
>
do you know that?". Yesterday, he explained to me how the street sweeper
works. He said he figured it out from watching it. I dont' know for sure,
but he sure sounds like he understands how it works.
>This is what I mean, stand back, and watching your child unfold his
>
> <<His understanding that him mummy and daddy each had very different tv
> shows that we like, and he's happy to watch it all too. He sets tv
> reminders for us all.
>
trueself to you.
Today, my hubby is a true believer of unschooling. He will talk
confidently to anyone about unschooling and our child's amazing self.
A big change for someone who believed "rules are rules, and need to be
followed" LOL!!>>
Maybe my dh will get there too. He became quite the homebirth proponent
after we had our youngest at home. A couple of years before, he had said
"you can have a homebirth and I'll go to the hospital". If you ask him, he
would just say he would pefere the status quo.
<<After 23 months of unschooling, I still get hick-ups here and there
occasionally. But I understood the problem lies in me, and not my
child. And it normally starts when I start "expecting something" LOL! >>
Yes, I will have challenges about expectations. They are pretty deeply
ingrained that even though I recognize the fallacy, I find myself expecting
(really wishing). But if I have fewer expectations of myself, that "should"
help.
Hope this helps.
Very much, Thanks!!!
Christie
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]