Cutting- Please help!
Kelly Nishan
I just found out my 15 year old daughter is cutting and I'm totally
freaking out. We had talked about cutting a few weeks ago because
her older sister who was visiting told me she had been cutting but
stopped. I asked Lizzy if she knew and she did. I felt like that
is something she should have talked to me about. She said it's not
the kind of thing you talk to parents about. She doesn't feel like
parents can do anything about it so it doesn't help if they know. I
took her out of school in 8th grade because I was afraid of her
hurting herself like this. Her sister just sent me a copy of a
conversation they have been having on myspace that Lizzy is cutting
and doesn't want to stop. I haven't talked to her about it yet but
I feel like I'm going to throw up right now.
Please help me find the best way to deal with this. My first
reaction is total mental chaos. Send her to school, send her to
counseling, punish her, quit my job and watch her all day, MAKE her
take the antidepressants that she refused to take the last few
months. I know really I can't make her stop but how can I help her
see that she should. I don't understand this behavior but it seems
so much more common than when I was a kid. It scares the shit out
of me. Also her hiding things from me scares me.
Our communication is better than it used to be but she has always
refused to talk about certain things. I thought she was happy for
the most part though. SHe has total control over just about
everything in her life. I work with her to help her get whatever
she wants. I don't punish her. What else can I do? SHe has
always had a certain negativity to her thinking but I didn't think
it was that bad for her anymore. I am not going to talk to her
about this until I have thought about it and calmed down a
little.
Kelly
freaking out. We had talked about cutting a few weeks ago because
her older sister who was visiting told me she had been cutting but
stopped. I asked Lizzy if she knew and she did. I felt like that
is something she should have talked to me about. She said it's not
the kind of thing you talk to parents about. She doesn't feel like
parents can do anything about it so it doesn't help if they know. I
took her out of school in 8th grade because I was afraid of her
hurting herself like this. Her sister just sent me a copy of a
conversation they have been having on myspace that Lizzy is cutting
and doesn't want to stop. I haven't talked to her about it yet but
I feel like I'm going to throw up right now.
Please help me find the best way to deal with this. My first
reaction is total mental chaos. Send her to school, send her to
counseling, punish her, quit my job and watch her all day, MAKE her
take the antidepressants that she refused to take the last few
months. I know really I can't make her stop but how can I help her
see that she should. I don't understand this behavior but it seems
so much more common than when I was a kid. It scares the shit out
of me. Also her hiding things from me scares me.
Our communication is better than it used to be but she has always
refused to talk about certain things. I thought she was happy for
the most part though. SHe has total control over just about
everything in her life. I work with her to help her get whatever
she wants. I don't punish her. What else can I do? SHe has
always had a certain negativity to her thinking but I didn't think
it was that bad for her anymore. I am not going to talk to her
about this until I have thought about it and calmed down a
little.
Kelly
Kytka "Kit" Hilmar-Jezek
Hello Kelly,
First, please do not allow fear to get in the way of thinking. Cutting is a form of self harm that is like over eating, or like an adults alcohol. It is NOT a suidice attempt, normally. I did a lot of research because I am a life loving and happy optimist who went through a year of hell and I began cutting. I found my entire world turned upside down and I did not know how to deal with it. Imagine losing 60 days of your life, your kids, all of your life's work, reputation, home, country, stuff (adding up to well over $2 million dollars) and lifestyle in general... I felt I wanted to scream out because no one could "relate" to what I went through... At times the pain got so great, and I needed to speak - but again, no one could comprehend or even address the issues that were so overwhelming to me. I literally felt as though I HAD to let and allow some pain out of my body, in a SYMBOLIC way... I felt that if I allowed a small slash in my skin, the pain
would exit, and I would not blow up from the inside out. I know for those who have no idea how this works, it does not make too much sense... but it just "felt" like the only coping mechanism I had at the time. My throat chakra felt totally closed, I felt suppressed in expressing the overwhelming grief and betrayal, the deep attack on everything I had ever held as pure and sacred.
To this day, I would say that my family allowing me to sit in my corner or closet for those few very challenging months and cut without baker acting me, saved my life... So I ask that you consider this... what could she be having trouble coping with. I am 44, and my mom wanted me to speak to her, to talk it out... but again, no words could express how I felt. The anguish was terrifying and too real, and I literally felt if I did not cut small - then I would have a stroke, heart attack, total nervous breakdown, or just drop dead.....
No one ever counseled me, and it left the same way it came into my life, one day I just realized it was ugly, I did not feel "pretty" or "sane" with those marks... and they did not get me the help I was wanting... what got me what I wanted was the love and support of my family who told me they loved me very much and would support and understand what I was going through.
From a physical standpoint, certain hormones/chemicals are released that act as a natural "valium" and downer to actually prevent a larger type of self attack... it calms, and it makes one feel somehow validated in the experience of pain.
I have a LOT of literature and links, sites I could recommend... I just wanted to suggest that you do not attack her with "what the hell is wrong with you" or "why are you trying to kill yourself" because that is NOT the attention she needs.... it is a very tough call, because in my opinion, when the person gets to that place, they really feel totally overwhelmed where "logical" talkingt is no longer effective... and yet it needs to be discussed in a non intrusive way, non judgmental way. The "high" your body goes through is addictive too - so what may have started as a quick way to cope, or to try something peers are doing, has become a "high" for her....
Too many thoughts in my mind, too many possibilities - I just wanted to add this and offer some of my links, writing, sites if you need....
Hold her in the highest light....
To Your Continued Growth & Success!
Kytka "Kit" Hilmar-Jezek, ND, PhD
Speaker, Coach, Author,
Founder and Editor of The Age of Attraction Book Series
Author of Reiki for Children
Editor of My Journey To Becoming a Mayan Shaman
Founder of the Following Websites: The Age of Attraction,
Waldorf Homeschoolers, Reiki Kids, Spiritual & Abundant Kids Blog
Creator of the Following Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/WaldorfHomeschoolers
First, please do not allow fear to get in the way of thinking. Cutting is a form of self harm that is like over eating, or like an adults alcohol. It is NOT a suidice attempt, normally. I did a lot of research because I am a life loving and happy optimist who went through a year of hell and I began cutting. I found my entire world turned upside down and I did not know how to deal with it. Imagine losing 60 days of your life, your kids, all of your life's work, reputation, home, country, stuff (adding up to well over $2 million dollars) and lifestyle in general... I felt I wanted to scream out because no one could "relate" to what I went through... At times the pain got so great, and I needed to speak - but again, no one could comprehend or even address the issues that were so overwhelming to me. I literally felt as though I HAD to let and allow some pain out of my body, in a SYMBOLIC way... I felt that if I allowed a small slash in my skin, the pain
would exit, and I would not blow up from the inside out. I know for those who have no idea how this works, it does not make too much sense... but it just "felt" like the only coping mechanism I had at the time. My throat chakra felt totally closed, I felt suppressed in expressing the overwhelming grief and betrayal, the deep attack on everything I had ever held as pure and sacred.
To this day, I would say that my family allowing me to sit in my corner or closet for those few very challenging months and cut without baker acting me, saved my life... So I ask that you consider this... what could she be having trouble coping with. I am 44, and my mom wanted me to speak to her, to talk it out... but again, no words could express how I felt. The anguish was terrifying and too real, and I literally felt if I did not cut small - then I would have a stroke, heart attack, total nervous breakdown, or just drop dead.....
No one ever counseled me, and it left the same way it came into my life, one day I just realized it was ugly, I did not feel "pretty" or "sane" with those marks... and they did not get me the help I was wanting... what got me what I wanted was the love and support of my family who told me they loved me very much and would support and understand what I was going through.
From a physical standpoint, certain hormones/chemicals are released that act as a natural "valium" and downer to actually prevent a larger type of self attack... it calms, and it makes one feel somehow validated in the experience of pain.
I have a LOT of literature and links, sites I could recommend... I just wanted to suggest that you do not attack her with "what the hell is wrong with you" or "why are you trying to kill yourself" because that is NOT the attention she needs.... it is a very tough call, because in my opinion, when the person gets to that place, they really feel totally overwhelmed where "logical" talkingt is no longer effective... and yet it needs to be discussed in a non intrusive way, non judgmental way. The "high" your body goes through is addictive too - so what may have started as a quick way to cope, or to try something peers are doing, has become a "high" for her....
Too many thoughts in my mind, too many possibilities - I just wanted to add this and offer some of my links, writing, sites if you need....
Hold her in the highest light....
To Your Continued Growth & Success!
Kytka "Kit" Hilmar-Jezek, ND, PhD
Speaker, Coach, Author,
Founder and Editor of The Age of Attraction Book Series
Author of Reiki for Children
Editor of My Journey To Becoming a Mayan Shaman
Founder of the Following Websites: The Age of Attraction,
Waldorf Homeschoolers, Reiki Kids, Spiritual & Abundant Kids Blog
Creator of the Following Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/WaldorfHomeschoolers
--- On Wed, 10/8/08, Kelly Nishan <kel9769@...> wrote:
From: Kelly Nishan <kel9769@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Cutting- Please help!
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 1:04 PM
I just found out my 15 year old daughter is cutting and I'm totally
freaking out. We had talked about cutting a few weeks ago because
her older sister who was visiting told me she had been cutting but
stopped. I asked Lizzy if she knew and she did. I felt like that
is something she should have talked to me about. She said it's not
the kind of thing you talk to parents about. She doesn't feel like
parents can do anything about it so it doesn't help if they know. I
took her out of school in 8th grade because I was afraid of her
hurting herself like this. Her sister just sent me a copy of a
conversation they have been having on myspace that Lizzy is cutting
and doesn't want to stop. I haven't talked to her about it yet but
I feel like I'm going to throw up right now.
Please help me find the best way to deal with this. My first
reaction is total mental chaos. Send her to school, send her to
counseling, punish her, quit my job and watch her all day, MAKE her
take the antidepressants that she refused to take the last few
months. I know really I can't make her stop but how can I help her
see that she should. I don't understand this behavior but it seems
so much more common than when I was a kid. It scares the shit out
of me. Also her hiding things from me scares me.
Our communication is better than it used to be but she has always
refused to talk about certain things. I thought she was happy for
the most part though. SHe has total control over just about
everything in her life. I work with her to help her get whatever
she wants. I don't punish her. What else can I do? SHe has
always had a certain negativity to her thinking but I didn't think
it was that bad for her anymore. I am not going to talk to her
about this until I have thought about it and calmed down a
little.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amy
To the best of my understanding Cutting is one way teenagers have found to "feel". I didn't cut myself as a teen but I was engaged in other harmful behaviors to "feel" . The reason I put the word in quotes is because the word is sadly inadaquate and yet it's all I have to try and describe.
Obviously, as an unschooler I realize the challenges inherent in helping a child who may not want to be helped. So I'm going to throw out there some suggestions from my heart and my experience as a teenager/young adult not as parent because my kids are still barely kindergarten and I haven't experienced the parental side of this equation.
First in conversation I would be very careful to only state the obvious and stay as far away from assumptions as possible.
First and foremost your daughter NEEDS to know absolutely that you accept her and love her no matter what she does exactly as she is. that if she cut herself every day for the rest of her life, if she were covered in scars you would still love and accept her.
Secondly, self harm is not something happy people do.
Third, does she know why she is doing this? again reassure her that no matter what she says you will still love and accept her.
Fourth, she may not know. Life is kinda funny that way. We don't always know why we do the things we do.
Fifth, Does she want to stop? Does she see this as a problem? or is it something she wants to continue? or maybe she sees cutting herself as something out of her control something she just does and doesn't know why.
the BBC has been running a discussion on cutting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/teens/2004/self_harm.shtml
http://www.selfharm.org.uk/default.aspa
http://nohurt.org/edition%202/cutting.html
http://www.youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=1410
http://www.freewebs.com/self_harm_life/understandingselfharmers.htm
If she refuses help insist she start working out with you every day. At least 2 hours every day. Whatever she is physically drawn to. Swimming, ice skating, rock climbing, a gym membership whatever. Beg and plead if you have to. The working out balances most imbalances that may hormonally be affecting her and numbing her. The endorphins will make her feel better about herself and the exercise the mere action of intensly working out will help dissapate those feelings of numbness and loss.
Of course I would love to hear she wanted to see a psych and entered a talk therapy program but the reality is that most people attach a stigma to that and won't go.
Love and Laughter,
Amy
snugglebugg.com/sagepixie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Obviously, as an unschooler I realize the challenges inherent in helping a child who may not want to be helped. So I'm going to throw out there some suggestions from my heart and my experience as a teenager/young adult not as parent because my kids are still barely kindergarten and I haven't experienced the parental side of this equation.
First in conversation I would be very careful to only state the obvious and stay as far away from assumptions as possible.
First and foremost your daughter NEEDS to know absolutely that you accept her and love her no matter what she does exactly as she is. that if she cut herself every day for the rest of her life, if she were covered in scars you would still love and accept her.
Secondly, self harm is not something happy people do.
Third, does she know why she is doing this? again reassure her that no matter what she says you will still love and accept her.
Fourth, she may not know. Life is kinda funny that way. We don't always know why we do the things we do.
Fifth, Does she want to stop? Does she see this as a problem? or is it something she wants to continue? or maybe she sees cutting herself as something out of her control something she just does and doesn't know why.
the BBC has been running a discussion on cutting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/teens/2004/self_harm.shtml
http://www.selfharm.org.uk/default.aspa
http://nohurt.org/edition%202/cutting.html
http://www.youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=1410
http://www.freewebs.com/self_harm_life/understandingselfharmers.htm
If she refuses help insist she start working out with you every day. At least 2 hours every day. Whatever she is physically drawn to. Swimming, ice skating, rock climbing, a gym membership whatever. Beg and plead if you have to. The working out balances most imbalances that may hormonally be affecting her and numbing her. The endorphins will make her feel better about herself and the exercise the mere action of intensly working out will help dissapate those feelings of numbness and loss.
Of course I would love to hear she wanted to see a psych and entered a talk therapy program but the reality is that most people attach a stigma to that and won't go.
Love and Laughter,
Amy
snugglebugg.com/sagepixie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
I think talk therapy is often too direct and therefore ineffective because
some undergoing therapy usually don't feel like talking and feel worse
because they can't open up.
There are other therapies. Expressive arts therapies: music, art,
motion/dance. I think the swimming idea is excellent. Being with is great
if that's what is wanted. Be open also to the teen who wants to accomplish
things on their own, and make the way clear to do so.
~Katherine
some undergoing therapy usually don't feel like talking and feel worse
because they can't open up.
There are other therapies. Expressive arts therapies: music, art,
motion/dance. I think the swimming idea is excellent. Being with is great
if that's what is wanted. Be open also to the teen who wants to accomplish
things on their own, and make the way clear to do so.
~Katherine
On 10/8/08, Amy <quinlonsma@...> wrote:
>
> To the best of my understanding Cutting is one way teenagers have found
> to "feel". I didn't cut myself as a teen but I was engaged in other harmful
> behaviors to "feel" . The reason I put the word in quotes is because the
> word is sadly inadaquate and yet it's all I have to try and describe.
>
> Obviously, as an unschooler I realize the challenges inherent in helping a
> child who may not want to be helped. So I'm going to throw out there some
> suggestions from my heart and my experience as a teenager/young adult not as
> parent because my kids are still barely kindergarten and I haven't
> experienced the parental side of this equation.
>
> First in conversation I would be very careful to only state the obvious and
> stay as far away from assumptions as possible.
>
> First and foremost your daughter NEEDS to know absolutely that you accept
> her and love her no matter what she does exactly as she is. that if she cut
> herself every day for the rest of her life, if she were covered in scars you
> would still love and accept her.
>
> Secondly, self harm is not something happy people do.
>
> Third, does she know why she is doing this? again reassure her that no
> matter what she says you will still love and accept her.
>
> Fourth, she may not know. Life is kinda funny that way. We don't always
> know why we do the things we do.
>
> Fifth, Does she want to stop? Does she see this as a problem? or is it
> something she wants to continue? or maybe she sees cutting herself as
> something out of her control something she just does and doesn't know why.
>
> the BBC has been running a discussion on cutting
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/teens/2004/self_harm.shtml
>
> http://www.selfharm.org.uk/default.aspa
>
> http://nohurt.org/edition%202/cutting.html
>
> http://www.youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=1410
>
> http://www.freewebs.com/self_harm_life/understandingselfharmers.htm
>
> If she refuses help insist she start working out with you every day. At
> least 2 hours every day. Whatever she is physically drawn to. Swimming, ice
> skating, rock climbing, a gym membership whatever. Beg and plead if you have
> to. The working out balances most imbalances that may hormonally be
> affecting her and numbing her. The endorphins will make her feel better
> about herself and the exercise the mere action of intensly working out will
> help dissapate those feelings of numbness and loss.
>
> Of course I would love to hear she wanted to see a psych and entered a talk
> therapy program but the reality is that most people attach a stigma to that
> and won't go.
>
> Love and Laughter,
>
> Amy
>
> snugglebugg.com/sagepixie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
i remember in college i wrote a poem about not being able to feel unless i was bleeding.? i looked forward to my period because of the cramping and blood.? it was the only time i really felt alive.? i never cut.? i agree with what someone else said about the bleeding letting out the negative.? i have never researched it, but i believe that menstruation is a time of healing and of letting go of more than just an unfertilized ovum.? i can see how if that wasn't enough, someone would cut to make the blood flow out.?
it is so strange, the older i get, how i meet more and more people who are validating things i have felt throughout my life.? i know there must be a reason it is happening now as opposed to then, but it sure would've been nice to not constantly feel like the odd one out before.?
~Tracee----who shares everything with everyone she's ever met, but never gotten this personal with perfect strangers in a public arena-----
-----Original Message-----
From: Amy <quinlonsma@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 8:14 pm
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Cutting- Please help!
To the best of my understanding Cutting is one way teenagers have found to "feel". I didn't cut myself as a teen but I was engaged in other harmful behaviors to "feel" . The reason I put the word in quotes is because the word is sadly inadaquate and yet it's all I have to try and describe.
Obviously, as an unschooler I realize the challenges inherent in helping a child who may not want to be helped. So I'm going to throw out there some suggestions from my heart and my experience as a teenager/young adult not as parent because my kids are still barely kindergarten and I haven't experienced the parental side of this equation.
First in conversation I would be very careful to only state the obvious and stay as far away from assumptions as possible.
First and foremost your daughter NEEDS to know absolutely that you accept her and love her no matter what she does exactly as she is. that if she cut herself every day for the rest of her life, if she were covered in scars you would still love and accept her.?
Secondly, self harm is not something happy people do.
Third, does she know why she is doing this? again reassure her that no matter what she says you will still love and accept her.
Fourth, she may not know. Life is kinda funny that way. We don't always know why we do the things we do.
Fifth, Does she want to stop? Does she see this as a problem? or is it something she wants to continue? or maybe she sees cutting herself as something out of her control something she just does and doesn't know why.
the BBC has been running a discussion on cutting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/teens/2004/self_harm.shtml
http://www.selfharm.org.uk/default.aspa
http://nohurt.org/edition%202/cutting.html
http://www.youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=1410
http://www.freewebs.com/self_harm_life/understandingselfharmers.htm
If she refuses help insist she start working out with you every day. At least 2 hours every day. Whatever she is physically drawn to. Swimming, ice skating, rock climbing, a gym membership whatever. Beg and plead if you have to. The working out balances most imbalances that may hormonally be affecting her and numbing her. The endorphins will make her feel better about herself and the exercise the mere action of intensly working out will help dissapate those feelings of numbness and loss.
Of course I would love to hear she wanted to see a psych and entered a talk therapy program but the reality is that most people attach a stigma to that and won't go.
Love and Laughter,
Amy
snugglebugg.com/sagepixie
?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it is so strange, the older i get, how i meet more and more people who are validating things i have felt throughout my life.? i know there must be a reason it is happening now as opposed to then, but it sure would've been nice to not constantly feel like the odd one out before.?
~Tracee----who shares everything with everyone she's ever met, but never gotten this personal with perfect strangers in a public arena-----
-----Original Message-----
From: Amy <quinlonsma@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 8:14 pm
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Cutting- Please help!
To the best of my understanding Cutting is one way teenagers have found to "feel". I didn't cut myself as a teen but I was engaged in other harmful behaviors to "feel" . The reason I put the word in quotes is because the word is sadly inadaquate and yet it's all I have to try and describe.
Obviously, as an unschooler I realize the challenges inherent in helping a child who may not want to be helped. So I'm going to throw out there some suggestions from my heart and my experience as a teenager/young adult not as parent because my kids are still barely kindergarten and I haven't experienced the parental side of this equation.
First in conversation I would be very careful to only state the obvious and stay as far away from assumptions as possible.
First and foremost your daughter NEEDS to know absolutely that you accept her and love her no matter what she does exactly as she is. that if she cut herself every day for the rest of her life, if she were covered in scars you would still love and accept her.?
Secondly, self harm is not something happy people do.
Third, does she know why she is doing this? again reassure her that no matter what she says you will still love and accept her.
Fourth, she may not know. Life is kinda funny that way. We don't always know why we do the things we do.
Fifth, Does she want to stop? Does she see this as a problem? or is it something she wants to continue? or maybe she sees cutting herself as something out of her control something she just does and doesn't know why.
the BBC has been running a discussion on cutting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/teens/2004/self_harm.shtml
http://www.selfharm.org.uk/default.aspa
http://nohurt.org/edition%202/cutting.html
http://www.youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=1410
http://www.freewebs.com/self_harm_life/understandingselfharmers.htm
If she refuses help insist she start working out with you every day. At least 2 hours every day. Whatever she is physically drawn to. Swimming, ice skating, rock climbing, a gym membership whatever. Beg and plead if you have to. The working out balances most imbalances that may hormonally be affecting her and numbing her. The endorphins will make her feel better about herself and the exercise the mere action of intensly working out will help dissapate those feelings of numbness and loss.
Of course I would love to hear she wanted to see a psych and entered a talk therapy program but the reality is that most people attach a stigma to that and won't go.
Love and Laughter,
Amy
snugglebugg.com/sagepixie
?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
In high school I used to cut myself. I used to sit in my room in the evening feeling totally isolated and sad and confused, listening to something on my radio shack record player with the eight track tape deck, and I used a razor blade and cut around my ankles. It was about taking internal turmoil and giving it substance, making it real. My parents caught me at some point and freaked out. I ended up on the roof that night with them trying to grab me through the windows. They set me up with a counselor, Gaye McTate, who I'd go see once a week. She was really nice. I think it helped a bit to have someone paid to listen to me and to talk to me for an hour a week. The best part was when she yelled at my dad for being late to a family meeting, arguing that I was at least as important as the clients he had at his office. My memory of my cutting is that it didn't stop. It was never very severe. It was always just minor cuts in my leg. I had a friend who carved
words into her skin. Her need for release and expression was so much greater than mine.
The cutting is a symptom. I know I stopped when I dropped out of high school. My life didn't get easier, but it became more mine. I know it started when my mom moved back home from living in another city to work. I know that her moving back took the control that I had expanded to live with outside of my hands and that it was hard to shrink to her requirements. There is something in your daughter's life that is making her feel out of control, or in so much turmoil that she needs to express it through cutting. I would recommend trying to find lots of cool and engaging things to do. I would not recommend damaging the trust that she has in her older sister by talking about her cutting and you know.
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
I just found out my 15 year old daughter is cutting and I'm totally
freaking out. We had talked about cutting a few weeks ago because
her older sister who was visiting told me she had been cutting but
stopped. I asked Lizzy if she knew and she did. I felt like that
is something she should have talked to me about. She said it's not
the kind of thing you talk to parents about. She doesn't feel like
parents can do anything about it so it doesn't help if they know. I
took her out of school in 8th grade because I was afraid of her
hurting herself like this. Her sister just sent me a copy of a
conversation they have been having on myspace that Lizzy is cutting
and doesn't want to stop. I haven't talked to her about it yet but
I feel like I'm going to throw up right now.
Please help me find the best way to deal with this. My first
reaction is total mental chaos. Send her to school, send her to
counseling, punish her, quit my job and watch her all day, MAKE her
take the antidepressants that she refused to take the last few
months. I know really I can't make her stop but how can I help her
see that she should. I don't understand this behavior but it seems
so much more common than when I was a kid. It scares the shit out
of me. Also her hiding things from me scares me.
Our communication is better than it used to be but she has always
refused to talk about certain things. I thought she was happy for
the most part though. SHe has total control over just about
everything in her life. I work with her to help her get whatever
she wants. I don't punish her. What else can I do? SHe has
always had a certain negativity to her thinking but I didn't think
it was that bad for her anymore. I am not going to talk to her
about this until I have thought about it and calmed down a
little.
Kelly
__
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
words into her skin. Her need for release and expression was so much greater than mine.
The cutting is a symptom. I know I stopped when I dropped out of high school. My life didn't get easier, but it became more mine. I know it started when my mom moved back home from living in another city to work. I know that her moving back took the control that I had expanded to live with outside of my hands and that it was hard to shrink to her requirements. There is something in your daughter's life that is making her feel out of control, or in so much turmoil that she needs to express it through cutting. I would recommend trying to find lots of cool and engaging things to do. I would not recommend damaging the trust that she has in her older sister by talking about her cutting and you know.
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
I just found out my 15 year old daughter is cutting and I'm totally
freaking out. We had talked about cutting a few weeks ago because
her older sister who was visiting told me she had been cutting but
stopped. I asked Lizzy if she knew and she did. I felt like that
is something she should have talked to me about. She said it's not
the kind of thing you talk to parents about. She doesn't feel like
parents can do anything about it so it doesn't help if they know. I
took her out of school in 8th grade because I was afraid of her
hurting herself like this. Her sister just sent me a copy of a
conversation they have been having on myspace that Lizzy is cutting
and doesn't want to stop. I haven't talked to her about it yet but
I feel like I'm going to throw up right now.
Please help me find the best way to deal with this. My first
reaction is total mental chaos. Send her to school, send her to
counseling, punish her, quit my job and watch her all day, MAKE her
take the antidepressants that she refused to take the last few
months. I know really I can't make her stop but how can I help her
see that she should. I don't understand this behavior but it seems
so much more common than when I was a kid. It scares the shit out
of me. Also her hiding things from me scares me.
Our communication is better than it used to be but she has always
refused to talk about certain things. I thought she was happy for
the most part though. SHe has total control over just about
everything in her life. I work with her to help her get whatever
she wants. I don't punish her. What else can I do? SHe has
always had a certain negativity to her thinking but I didn't think
it was that bad for her anymore. I am not going to talk to her
about this until I have thought about it and calmed down a
little.
Kelly
__
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I agree with Schuyler.
My brother used to carve works on himself in his teens. He was very conflicted, in turmoil and a very sensitive guy. He also dropped out of high school and than met his girlfriend and moved out. He stopped when that happened. I wish I could ask him question bu he passed away young.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
My brother used to carve works on himself in his teens. He was very conflicted, in turmoil and a very sensitive guy. He also dropped out of high school and than met his girlfriend and moved out. He stopped when that happened. I wish I could ask him question bu he passed away young.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Emily
My sister-in-law did this in junior high. Her parents went with the
"What the hell are you doing to yourself" approach. She refused all
"help"/medication/counseling. In her early 20s she is still not
functioning well.
I agree that you should see if it works itself out. Don't start
looking at her funny or let on that you are worrying about her. It
would be awful if she found out that her sister shared this info with
you. I imagine she would feel betrayed and stop talking to her sister
about those things "parents can do nothing about"
Perhaps you could share some resources on other natural mood elevators
if she doesn't want to take the anti-depressants. Or you could ask her
sister to pass on the info about cutting- why it makes sense (the
natural chemical release stuff) and it might motivate her to look for
other things she can do to get that feeling, like jogging. The more
tools she has to deal with it on her own, the quicker she will admit
to herself that scabs aren't hot.
My SIL is bi-polar and she is happier when she is busy. She also seems
to feel best about herself when she is helping or doing stuff for
others. Maybe you could set some "get healthy(er)" food and exercise
goals for yourself and ask your daughter to join you to help keep you
motivated and on track.
"What the hell are you doing to yourself" approach. She refused all
"help"/medication/counseling. In her early 20s she is still not
functioning well.
I agree that you should see if it works itself out. Don't start
looking at her funny or let on that you are worrying about her. It
would be awful if she found out that her sister shared this info with
you. I imagine she would feel betrayed and stop talking to her sister
about those things "parents can do nothing about"
Perhaps you could share some resources on other natural mood elevators
if she doesn't want to take the anti-depressants. Or you could ask her
sister to pass on the info about cutting- why it makes sense (the
natural chemical release stuff) and it might motivate her to look for
other things she can do to get that feeling, like jogging. The more
tools she has to deal with it on her own, the quicker she will admit
to herself that scabs aren't hot.
My SIL is bi-polar and she is happier when she is busy. She also seems
to feel best about herself when she is helping or doing stuff for
others. Maybe you could set some "get healthy(er)" food and exercise
goals for yourself and ask your daughter to join you to help keep you
motivated and on track.
Heather B.
I don't have any sure advice for you. But one of my best friends starting
cutting in high school and never stopped that I know of. She has large,
deep scars on literally every inch of her body except her face and hands. I
never knew what to make of it or how to help her. Apparently, any help she
received never helped at all.
I'm sharing this because even though a few people have said that it may work
itself out, the flip side is that it may not.
"What would you do if you couldn't fail?"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cutting in high school and never stopped that I know of. She has large,
deep scars on literally every inch of her body except her face and hands. I
never knew what to make of it or how to help her. Apparently, any help she
received never helped at all.
I'm sharing this because even though a few people have said that it may work
itself out, the flip side is that it may not.
"What would you do if you couldn't fail?"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nicole durbin
What about getting fun/soothing supplies she can use to appreciate and enjoy her body...bath goodies like bubble bath, lotions, yummy smelling soap and shampoos...if money allows, maybe shopping with you for some pretty, comfy underwear of choice...might help to see how she feels good being with her body, she doesn't have to know you know, it's just a special time together.
Ask her what you can do. Even if no response becomes of it at first, she will know that you are available. You are already showing how much you care and that you are a wonderful mom by seeking help!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ask her what you can do. Even if no response becomes of it at first, she will know that you are available. You are already showing how much you care and that you are a wonderful mom by seeking help!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wisdomalways5
--- In [email protected], "Heather B."
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
skin till it bled- for me it was because I never had a say- I could
not speak or stand up for what I wanted or how I felt so when I felt
huge pain the physical pain was a release- it is like biting your
lip or digging your nails into something--
does your daughter feel like she can express herself and that those
around her are OKAY with it--- do you know WHERE she is cutting- for
me it was on the wrists and then I wore long sleeves-
back then I do not think I KNEW why I was doing it so asking her
what the hell she is thinking probably will not work maybe figuring
out ways she can express her pain or her feelings would help without
having to talk about it.
Julie
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
>starting
> I don't have any sure advice for you. But one of my best friends
> cutting in high school and never stopped that I know of. >I was a cutter in highschool- actually I took a pin and scratched my
>
skin till it bled- for me it was because I never had a say- I could
not speak or stand up for what I wanted or how I felt so when I felt
huge pain the physical pain was a release- it is like biting your
lip or digging your nails into something--
does your daughter feel like she can express herself and that those
around her are OKAY with it--- do you know WHERE she is cutting- for
me it was on the wrists and then I wore long sleeves-
back then I do not think I KNEW why I was doing it so asking her
what the hell she is thinking probably will not work maybe figuring
out ways she can express her pain or her feelings would help without
having to talk about it.
Julie
logan_rose_porter
A few things,
Cutting is not always benign - it CAN be a suicide thing, or at the very least a wanting to
die thing. Take ANY cutting seriously.
I agree with others that it is usually related to wanting to release emotional pain with
physical pain.
Tell her you love her- she may not realize or believe you do- tell her directly. If you see
her in turmoil (crying or otherwise) talk to her, ask her whats wrong. Im sure you already
do these things but just reinforcing :)
She sounds very sad, and dont feel betrayed that she didnt tell you, chances are she's well
aware that it would only make you feel bad too, and the only way out of this is within her.
All you can do is be there for her.
L
Cutting is not always benign - it CAN be a suicide thing, or at the very least a wanting to
die thing. Take ANY cutting seriously.
I agree with others that it is usually related to wanting to release emotional pain with
physical pain.
Tell her you love her- she may not realize or believe you do- tell her directly. If you see
her in turmoil (crying or otherwise) talk to her, ask her whats wrong. Im sure you already
do these things but just reinforcing :)
She sounds very sad, and dont feel betrayed that she didnt tell you, chances are she's well
aware that it would only make you feel bad too, and the only way out of this is within her.
All you can do is be there for her.
L
--- In [email protected], "wisdomalways5" <wisdom1133@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "Heather B."
> <heatherbean@> wrote:
> >
> > I don't have any sure advice for you. But one of my best friends
> starting
> > cutting in high school and never stopped that I know of. >
> >
>
> I was a cutter in highschool- actually I took a pin and scratched my
> skin till it bled- for me it was because I never had a say- I could
> not speak or stand up for what I wanted or how I felt so when I felt
> huge pain the physical pain was a release- it is like biting your
> lip or digging your nails into something--
>
> does your daughter feel like she can express herself and that those
> around her are OKAY with it--- do you know WHERE she is cutting- for
> me it was on the wrists and then I wore long sleeves-
>
> back then I do not think I KNEW why I was doing it so asking her
> what the hell she is thinking probably will not work maybe figuring
> out ways she can express her pain or her feelings would help without
> having to talk about it.
>
> Julie
>
Kelly Nishan
Thanks to everyone who replied to my post both on and off list. The
support and suggestions have been really helpful to me. I didn't
handle the whole thing very well but things could have been worse.
I tried to talk to her about it really calmly but then I did get mad
about it for a little bit. We kind of kept our conversations about
it into short little bursts. At first I felt personally betrayed
because I really felt like I had worked so hard to make her life
better and she still feels the need to be self destructive. When
she left school in 8th grade I was very afraid of her cutting.
Turns out she did it anyway and started after she left school. That
kind of pisses me off. Then again things probably could have been
so much worse if she had stayed in school. She says she is not
depressed or suicidal and does not want to go to counseling. She is
not quite ready to admit that it is a problem or something she needs
help with. The one thing she won't tell me is why she does it. She
showed me the marks on her wrist and they are very fine lines.
Our first conversation did not go great but it was productive. The
next day I was able to tell her how much I love her and that I would
love her even if she was covered in marks. I told her i would love
her even if she was a reaver which is a dorky sci fi reference from
a show we both love. She said but if she was a reaver she would
want to eat me. I told her I would love her even if she ate me and
used my skin for clothes. Then she laughed and said that was gross
but I got my point across. Liz has always been the kind of kid that
did not see how much she was loved. She has a good group of women
role models that really love her and listen to her and understand
her. The piece she is missing is a good male adult in her life.
That's just the way it happened. Her dad wasn't around. My dad
argued with both my sister and I and hasn't seen his granddaughters
in several years. Maybe that has something to do with it maybe
not.
This weekend I touched on something she said during our first
conversation. She felt that I didn't help her do what she wanted to
do but only those things that I wanted for her or that I thought she
SHOULD want. I don't really think I do this but I can understand
that is how she sees it right now. The thing she want most is to
start a full time ealy education program at a nearby college. She
does not want to get her GED or take community college classes. I
looked up the admission requirements and wrote them all down for her
and I looked into how to register for the SAT. The thing she needs
to get done is a portfolio and I think it's freaking her out a
little. We talked about some ways for her to do it.
Right now I understand I may or may not be able to make things
better for her but I sure could make them worse. Mostly I know this
is not about me. She's not cutting to hurt me and I need to not
take it as a personal insult as a mom. I love her even when she
doesn't believe it. I am doing my best to help her even when she
doesn't see it. She feels that the only thing accomplished by my
knowing is that I feel bad about it. Just maybe though she will see
that even if I freak out a little I can be trusted to deal with
knowing things about her. This is something that will probably be
an ongoing struggle for me for awhile. Thank you all for helping me.
Kelly
support and suggestions have been really helpful to me. I didn't
handle the whole thing very well but things could have been worse.
I tried to talk to her about it really calmly but then I did get mad
about it for a little bit. We kind of kept our conversations about
it into short little bursts. At first I felt personally betrayed
because I really felt like I had worked so hard to make her life
better and she still feels the need to be self destructive. When
she left school in 8th grade I was very afraid of her cutting.
Turns out she did it anyway and started after she left school. That
kind of pisses me off. Then again things probably could have been
so much worse if she had stayed in school. She says she is not
depressed or suicidal and does not want to go to counseling. She is
not quite ready to admit that it is a problem or something she needs
help with. The one thing she won't tell me is why she does it. She
showed me the marks on her wrist and they are very fine lines.
Our first conversation did not go great but it was productive. The
next day I was able to tell her how much I love her and that I would
love her even if she was covered in marks. I told her i would love
her even if she was a reaver which is a dorky sci fi reference from
a show we both love. She said but if she was a reaver she would
want to eat me. I told her I would love her even if she ate me and
used my skin for clothes. Then she laughed and said that was gross
but I got my point across. Liz has always been the kind of kid that
did not see how much she was loved. She has a good group of women
role models that really love her and listen to her and understand
her. The piece she is missing is a good male adult in her life.
That's just the way it happened. Her dad wasn't around. My dad
argued with both my sister and I and hasn't seen his granddaughters
in several years. Maybe that has something to do with it maybe
not.
This weekend I touched on something she said during our first
conversation. She felt that I didn't help her do what she wanted to
do but only those things that I wanted for her or that I thought she
SHOULD want. I don't really think I do this but I can understand
that is how she sees it right now. The thing she want most is to
start a full time ealy education program at a nearby college. She
does not want to get her GED or take community college classes. I
looked up the admission requirements and wrote them all down for her
and I looked into how to register for the SAT. The thing she needs
to get done is a portfolio and I think it's freaking her out a
little. We talked about some ways for her to do it.
Right now I understand I may or may not be able to make things
better for her but I sure could make them worse. Mostly I know this
is not about me. She's not cutting to hurt me and I need to not
take it as a personal insult as a mom. I love her even when she
doesn't believe it. I am doing my best to help her even when she
doesn't see it. She feels that the only thing accomplished by my
knowing is that I feel bad about it. Just maybe though she will see
that even if I freak out a little I can be trusted to deal with
knowing things about her. This is something that will probably be
an ongoing struggle for me for awhile. Thank you all for helping me.
Kelly
Zoa Conner
Kelly,
You said: Liz has always been the kind of kid that did not see how much she
was loved.
Since your daughter is having a hard time seeing your love for her, maybe it
would help you two to check out the Five Love Languages series of books. It
just might be that the things which make her feel loved (which languages she
needs to hear) are not things you are doing yet, but things you could be
doing for her.
Just a thought. Glad things are looking up for you and your daughter.
Zoa
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@...
*Handmade stuff @ earthyzee.etsy.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You said: Liz has always been the kind of kid that did not see how much she
was loved.
Since your daughter is having a hard time seeing your love for her, maybe it
would help you two to check out the Five Love Languages series of books. It
just might be that the things which make her feel loved (which languages she
needs to hear) are not things you are doing yet, but things you could be
doing for her.
Just a thought. Glad things are looking up for you and your daughter.
Zoa
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@...
*Handmade stuff @ earthyzee.etsy.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
~~This weekend I touched on something she said during our first
conversation. She felt that I didn't help her do what she wanted to
do but only those things that I wanted for her or that I thought she
SHOULD want. I don't really think I do this but I can understand
that is how she sees it right now.~~
This part of what was written struck me. I can't remember who said it, but someone, somewhere on this list or another one, said that it doesn't really matter how *we* see our kids' experience, it matters how *they* see it and feel about it(totally paraphrased). It's great when *we* think we help our kids get what they want, but what really matters is if *they* feel we are really helping them get what they want, that we're in their corner, have their back. For some reason she is experiencing it as you not helping her get/do what she wants Perhaps that bears further examination? One thing I feel is so stellar about radical unschooling is the opportunity for me as a parent to really examine everything. To really go deeper, and stretch, and examine thoroughly every nook and cranny of my motives, my feelings, my responses, etc. I see this as a great opportunity for some more examination :).
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
conversation. She felt that I didn't help her do what she wanted to
do but only those things that I wanted for her or that I thought she
SHOULD want. I don't really think I do this but I can understand
that is how she sees it right now.~~
This part of what was written struck me. I can't remember who said it, but someone, somewhere on this list or another one, said that it doesn't really matter how *we* see our kids' experience, it matters how *they* see it and feel about it(totally paraphrased). It's great when *we* think we help our kids get what they want, but what really matters is if *they* feel we are really helping them get what they want, that we're in their corner, have their back. For some reason she is experiencing it as you not helping her get/do what she wants Perhaps that bears further examination? One thing I feel is so stellar about radical unschooling is the opportunity for me as a parent to really examine everything. To really go deeper, and stretch, and examine thoroughly every nook and cranny of my motives, my feelings, my responses, etc. I see this as a great opportunity for some more examination :).
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Oct 14, 2008, at 7:17 AM, Kelly Nishan wrote:
ECE is a field in which community colleges excel, so I'm wondering why
she wouldn't want to start with that? Maybe if the information and
advice came from someone else, she'd be more open to it?
-pam
> The thing she want most is toCan she go to a career counselor/college counselor to get information.
> start a full time ealy education program at a nearby college. She
> does not want to get her GED or take community college classes. I
> looked up the admission requirements and wrote them all down for her
> and I looked into how to register for the SAT. The thing she needs
> to get done is a portfolio and I think it's freaking her out a
> little. We talked about some ways for her to do it.
ECE is a field in which community colleges excel, so I'm wondering why
she wouldn't want to start with that? Maybe if the information and
advice came from someone else, she'd be more open to it?
-pam
Kelly Nishan
>information.
> Can she go to a career counselor/college counselor to get
> ECE is a field in which community colleges excel, so I'm wonderingwhy
> she wouldn't want to start with that? Maybe if the informationand
> advice came from someone else, she'd be more open to it?Our local community college does have a good program with an
>
> -pam
>
internal day care. She is interested in a different college because
she visited there for Take your Daughter to Work Day a few years
ago. She got matched with the director of the program and got to
visit the day care as well as sit in on a couple of classes. She
also knows some kids who go to the community college because they
dropped out so she has a negative idea like it's not as good. Maybe
if she visited specifically to check out the early childhood program
she would see it's a good place to start out. Thanks for the idea.
Kelly
Kelly Nishan
>maybe it
> Since your daughter is having a hard time seeing your love for her,
> would help you two to check out the Five Love Languages series ofbooks. >
> ZoaThanks for the recommendation Zoa. I will definitely look for them.
>
Kelly
Kelly Nishan
it doesn't really matter how *we* see our kids' experience, it
matters how *they* see it and feel about it(totally
paraphrased). It's great when *we* think we help our kids get what
they want, but what really matters is if *they* feel we are really
helping them get what they want, that we're in their corner, have
their back. > Jodi
experiencing things is what matters. Sometimes it's just so
frustrating that I try so hard and she is never content. It breaks
my heart sometimes that I am never enough for her. I used to get so
defeated by it that I would hold myself back from her as a way to
punish her. My affection and attention. I try really really hard
not to do that anymore. Part of her age is also wanting to
experience new things and feeling frustrated when I can't give her
everything. There are some things that she has to be able to be
self motivated. Plus because it's always been just the 2 of us I
get all the blame for everything. We both procrastinate and lack
motivation sometimes but in the end it's always my fault. I know
this and accept it but sometimes I do feel defeated by it. That
feeling is only temporary though. I'm mostly able to shake it off
and keep doing my best for today. Maybe tomorrow's best will be a
little bit better.
Kelly
matters how *they* see it and feel about it(totally
paraphrased). It's great when *we* think we help our kids get what
they want, but what really matters is if *they* feel we are really
helping them get what they want, that we're in their corner, have
their back. > Jodi
>I do think about that a lot and recognize that how she is
experiencing things is what matters. Sometimes it's just so
frustrating that I try so hard and she is never content. It breaks
my heart sometimes that I am never enough for her. I used to get so
defeated by it that I would hold myself back from her as a way to
punish her. My affection and attention. I try really really hard
not to do that anymore. Part of her age is also wanting to
experience new things and feeling frustrated when I can't give her
everything. There are some things that she has to be able to be
self motivated. Plus because it's always been just the 2 of us I
get all the blame for everything. We both procrastinate and lack
motivation sometimes but in the end it's always my fault. I know
this and accept it but sometimes I do feel defeated by it. That
feeling is only temporary though. I'm mostly able to shake it off
and keep doing my best for today. Maybe tomorrow's best will be a
little bit better.
Kelly
Schuyler
------------snip-------------
When
she left school in 8th grade I was very afraid of her cutting.
Turns out she did it anyway and started after she left school. That
kind of pisses me off.
------------snip-------------
Why does it piss you off? Do you feel like you've done so much that is good and wonderful that she is somehow taking that away from you by self-harming? It's a hard thing when you feel like you've done so much to make someone else's life better and it still isn't good enough. Unfortunately it's worse than useless to get angry at someone not appreciating what you've done. When your daughter is feeling bad enough to cut herself it isn't
because you have done good things and she isn't grateful, it's because
she feels bad. Making her accountable for all the good things that
you've done aren't going to help her feel better. In fact it will just
add to her burden. Much better if you can see how much better your life is for what you've done, how much more you enjoy being with your daughter and having favorite sci-fi shows to reference. Think about it as a gift, not one that you get to hold her accountable to, just a gift.
Yesterday we were in town walking from the library to a toy store and Linnaea said she was bored and I wish instead of saying "How could you be bored, we are just walking through town?" judging her expectation of entertainment as too high, I'd said "let's race" or invited her to bunny hop with me or something. We did shoot people with imaginary laser guns, though. Her boredom wasn't mine to judge. She expressed a need and I could have helped to fulfill it. I felt hurt that she was bored. We had gone to town and were looking for games that she and Simon wanted and we'd just played a fantastic game of laser tag. It felt like she was dissing all of that for her boredom. But that was all me. I was feeling like I should be praised for all that I did or made possible or whatever. She had a good time doing those things but, in those 10 minutes of walking across the centre of town, she wanted something engaging then. I regret that I didn't play right away. It
won't happen next time.
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When
she left school in 8th grade I was very afraid of her cutting.
Turns out she did it anyway and started after she left school. That
kind of pisses me off.
------------snip-------------
Why does it piss you off? Do you feel like you've done so much that is good and wonderful that she is somehow taking that away from you by self-harming? It's a hard thing when you feel like you've done so much to make someone else's life better and it still isn't good enough. Unfortunately it's worse than useless to get angry at someone not appreciating what you've done. When your daughter is feeling bad enough to cut herself it isn't
because you have done good things and she isn't grateful, it's because
she feels bad. Making her accountable for all the good things that
you've done aren't going to help her feel better. In fact it will just
add to her burden. Much better if you can see how much better your life is for what you've done, how much more you enjoy being with your daughter and having favorite sci-fi shows to reference. Think about it as a gift, not one that you get to hold her accountable to, just a gift.
Yesterday we were in town walking from the library to a toy store and Linnaea said she was bored and I wish instead of saying "How could you be bored, we are just walking through town?" judging her expectation of entertainment as too high, I'd said "let's race" or invited her to bunny hop with me or something. We did shoot people with imaginary laser guns, though. Her boredom wasn't mine to judge. She expressed a need and I could have helped to fulfill it. I felt hurt that she was bored. We had gone to town and were looking for games that she and Simon wanted and we'd just played a fantastic game of laser tag. It felt like she was dissing all of that for her boredom. But that was all me. I was feeling like I should be praised for all that I did or made possible or whatever. She had a good time doing those things but, in those 10 minutes of walking across the centre of town, she wanted something engaging then. I regret that I didn't play right away. It
won't happen next time.
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
I agree that it's a mistake to think of boredom as ingratitude. One might
be having so much fun and just wants to continue ... but being no longer a
little kid and feeling one "has to" be mature and leave when others are
ready to move on. So. It isn't *at all* that a child is bored because
something wasn't good enough. The ordinary or mundane looks unappealing by
comparison not comfortable. I remember that a lot more when I was younger.
I feel it sometimes as an adult but not near as much as I did when I was a
kid. I'm more settled in my life now than I was as a teen when I had no
idea what I should be doing next. The pressure to succeed somehow in adult
life or to identify with adulthood sooner than one is ready is a thought
that's embedded early in school and that thought only gets more worrisome as
time goes on. It's only after a few milestones one feels adds up to adult
status have been passed that things might begin to feel more comfortable.
About cutting. A lot of kids feel so much disconnection that it's hard to
find a way to heal it. And attributing the problem to a lack of gratitude
underestimates the level of difficulty. Some adults may think that a kid's
life must be so much easier than adult life. I think now that the kid is
older it makes a lot more sense to shift into friendship and do things to
show openness and sensitivity that stretch the parent in new ways and allow
the relationship to mature. Of course, that's much easier said than done
for most people.
~Katherine
be having so much fun and just wants to continue ... but being no longer a
little kid and feeling one "has to" be mature and leave when others are
ready to move on. So. It isn't *at all* that a child is bored because
something wasn't good enough. The ordinary or mundane looks unappealing by
comparison not comfortable. I remember that a lot more when I was younger.
I feel it sometimes as an adult but not near as much as I did when I was a
kid. I'm more settled in my life now than I was as a teen when I had no
idea what I should be doing next. The pressure to succeed somehow in adult
life or to identify with adulthood sooner than one is ready is a thought
that's embedded early in school and that thought only gets more worrisome as
time goes on. It's only after a few milestones one feels adds up to adult
status have been passed that things might begin to feel more comfortable.
About cutting. A lot of kids feel so much disconnection that it's hard to
find a way to heal it. And attributing the problem to a lack of gratitude
underestimates the level of difficulty. Some adults may think that a kid's
life must be so much easier than adult life. I think now that the kid is
older it makes a lot more sense to shift into friendship and do things to
show openness and sensitivity that stretch the parent in new ways and allow
the relationship to mature. Of course, that's much easier said than done
for most people.
~Katherine
On 10/14/08, Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
> ------------snip-------------
> When
> she left school in 8th grade I was very afraid of her cutting.
> Turns out she did it anyway and started after she left school. That
> kind of pisses me off.
> ------------snip-------------
>
> Why does it piss you off? Do you feel like you've done so much that is
good and wonderful that she is somehow taking that away from you by
self-harming? It's a hard thing when you feel like you've done so much to
make someone else's life better and it still isn't good enough.
Unfortunately it's worse than useless to get angry at someone not
appreciating what you've done. When your daughter is feeling bad enough to
cut herself it isn't
> because you have done good things and she isn't grateful, it's because
> she feels bad. Making her accountable for all the good things that
> you've done aren't going to help her feel better. In fact it will just
> add to her burden. Much better if you can see how much better your life
is for what you've done, how much more you enjoy being with your daughter
and having favorite sci-fi shows to reference. Think about it as a gift, not
one that you get to hold her accountable to, just a gift.
>
> Yesterday we were in town walking from the library to a toy store and
Linnaea said she was bored and I wish instead of saying "How could you be
bored, we are just walking through town?" judging her expectation of
entertainment as too high, I'd said "let's race" or invited her to bunny hop
with me or something. We did shoot people with imaginary laser guns, though.
Her boredom wasn't mine to judge. She expressed a need and I could have
helped to fulfill it. I felt hurt that she was bored. We had gone to town
and were looking for games that she and Simon wanted and we'd just played a
fantastic game of laser tag. It felt like she was dissing all of that for
her boredom. But that was all me. I was feeling like I should be praised for
all that I did or made possible or whatever. She had a good time doing those
things but, in those 10 minutes of walking across the centre of town, she
wanted something engaging then. I regret that I didn't play right away. It
> won't happen next time.
>
> Schuyler
> http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christine
I know I am totally new here and therefore I hope you will afford me a
little patience in jumping into this topic.
When I was about 13, I started cutting. I came from a background that
I am sure is absolutely alien to you, but I want to give it to you in
hopes that it may give you some insight to exactly what is the root
cause of your daughter's desire to hurt herself.
My mother was a drug addict and I had been abused by my mother's drug
friends for an extended period of time. I was afraid to seek help, as
it had gone on so long, we (meaning people in general) tend to suffer
in silence on those things we have become accustomed to for fear that
the unknown will often be worse and uncontrollable. Over a period of
time, suppressing emotions and feelings to hide the turmoil took it's
toll. I started to feel numb inside, trapped in a void of non-emotion
and mentally I began to break down. I started cutting myself just
because I needed to see the blood to root myself, to feel as though I
was still alive. The pain made me feel human...if that makes sense at all.
Cutters, in my personal experience and by association, are those who
have an enormous build up of emotion that they've separated themselves
with for one reason or another that is about to come uncorked...often
violently. They use this method to try to ground themselves, to
re-bury what is bothering them so deeply. I quit cutting when I
determined that people were onto me. I was fearful of what it would
mean if I had to explain myself and moved on to further destructive
methods instead.
I know your first thought is to be angry at your daughter for not
sharing her deeper emotions with you...and it's natural that you
would! Your teen daughter is dealing with something really deep to her
as well as a strong desire to be independent from mom while still
needing her desperately...that's very conflicting and confusing to
her. Finding a way to bring balance to that and encourage her to let
you in is your biggest challenge now but will reap the max in
benefits. Either you or a trusted friend will need to really let the
momma barrier down and get her to open up to you...not as
mother/daughter but as trusted and loved friend. If you can do
that...then you'll reach the true root of what's causing her to act
out this way.
I hope what I wrote makes sense and is received in love as I only
intended it to be written that way.
Best wishes to you and to your daughter.
Christine
little patience in jumping into this topic.
When I was about 13, I started cutting. I came from a background that
I am sure is absolutely alien to you, but I want to give it to you in
hopes that it may give you some insight to exactly what is the root
cause of your daughter's desire to hurt herself.
My mother was a drug addict and I had been abused by my mother's drug
friends for an extended period of time. I was afraid to seek help, as
it had gone on so long, we (meaning people in general) tend to suffer
in silence on those things we have become accustomed to for fear that
the unknown will often be worse and uncontrollable. Over a period of
time, suppressing emotions and feelings to hide the turmoil took it's
toll. I started to feel numb inside, trapped in a void of non-emotion
and mentally I began to break down. I started cutting myself just
because I needed to see the blood to root myself, to feel as though I
was still alive. The pain made me feel human...if that makes sense at all.
Cutters, in my personal experience and by association, are those who
have an enormous build up of emotion that they've separated themselves
with for one reason or another that is about to come uncorked...often
violently. They use this method to try to ground themselves, to
re-bury what is bothering them so deeply. I quit cutting when I
determined that people were onto me. I was fearful of what it would
mean if I had to explain myself and moved on to further destructive
methods instead.
I know your first thought is to be angry at your daughter for not
sharing her deeper emotions with you...and it's natural that you
would! Your teen daughter is dealing with something really deep to her
as well as a strong desire to be independent from mom while still
needing her desperately...that's very conflicting and confusing to
her. Finding a way to bring balance to that and encourage her to let
you in is your biggest challenge now but will reap the max in
benefits. Either you or a trusted friend will need to really let the
momma barrier down and get her to open up to you...not as
mother/daughter but as trusted and loved friend. If you can do
that...then you'll reach the true root of what's causing her to act
out this way.
I hope what I wrote makes sense and is received in love as I only
intended it to be written that way.
Best wishes to you and to your daughter.
Christine
Kelly Nishan
--- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
you by self-harming? It's a hard thing when you feel like you've
done so much to make someone else's life better and it still isn't
good enough. Unfortunately it's worse than useless to get angry at
someone not appreciating what you've done. When your daughter is
feeling bad enough to cut herself it isn't
mad. I got over it pretty quick but still it's how I felt. I don't
beat myself up that I felt that way but I do wish I hadn't talked to
her when I felt that way. It didn't accomplish anything and it made
us both feel bad. I apologized and I will do better next time.
Even in the heat of the moment we were both clear on the fact that
how I was reacting was my problem that I needed to work out for
myself. I can be a support to her if she wants me to in dealing
with her feelings but she can't support me in dealing with mine and
I don't expect her to. The only thing I can do is be as trustworthy
and loving as I can be so she will feel safe to come to me. I don't
even really care if she doesn't come to me as long as she feels she
has somebody. She and my sister are very close so maybe she'll talk
to her.
Kelly
wrote:
>that is good and wonderful that she is somehow taking that away from
> Why does it piss you off? Do you feel like you've done so much
you by self-harming? It's a hard thing when you feel like you've
done so much to make someone else's life better and it still isn't
good enough. Unfortunately it's worse than useless to get angry at
someone not appreciating what you've done. When your daughter is
feeling bad enough to cut herself it isn't
> because you have done good things and she isn't grateful, it'sbecause
> she feels bad.Oh yeah my initial feeling was that it was all about me and I was
mad. I got over it pretty quick but still it's how I felt. I don't
beat myself up that I felt that way but I do wish I hadn't talked to
her when I felt that way. It didn't accomplish anything and it made
us both feel bad. I apologized and I will do better next time.
Even in the heat of the moment we were both clear on the fact that
how I was reacting was my problem that I needed to work out for
myself. I can be a support to her if she wants me to in dealing
with her feelings but she can't support me in dealing with mine and
I don't expect her to. The only thing I can do is be as trustworthy
and loving as I can be so she will feel safe to come to me. I don't
even really care if she doesn't come to me as long as she feels she
has somebody. She and my sister are very close so maybe she'll talk
to her.
Kelly