Kim Zerbe

I'm curious about your thoughts on movies appropriate for a 4 yr old. I
realize all kids are different! As illustrated in the movie topic underway
right now! But I'd like more opinions on the idea that very young kids
cannot handle certain violent (or sexual) content in movies (I was told
their brains are not developed in such a way that they can process what they
are seeing and make sense of things in reality and how they relate to the
real world). I think it totally depends on the kid. People keep telling me
that kids who are exposed to violence become violent and I am so sick of
hearing it! My son hit me constantly before he ever watched TV! He has
learned so many good things from TV and movies (other languages, new
animals, science, how to treat your friends, etc) I am not surprised when he
also mimics the fighting scenes. I guess I also need advice on helping him
respect the boundaries of others. His 3 yr old friend has not seen Star Wars
and doesn't want to (or know how to) fight with stick light sabers!

Here is my scenario. My neighbor was walking by with her family yesterday
and we made small talk. I mentioned that the 2nd run theater nearby had the
latest Indiana Jones movie and we were hoping to go see it soon. Her oldest
son said, "Oh that's supposed to be good! I want to see it too!" and his mom
said there's a reason it's PG-13. (I believe the boy is 9.) She said there
were things in there he shouldn't see and she felt it should even be rated
PG-18 in her opinion. (Wouldn't that be R?!) So I did NOT mention to her
that we were thinking about taking our 4 yr old! He has seen all 6 Star Wars
movies and LOVES them!!! I know other kids his age could not handle it, but
honestly my son sits in his seat and pays attention to the stories. We talk
about them and he knows a lot of the characters and how they relate to one
another. He saw the first Indiana Jones movie (although he did go to bed
before the end scene where the box opens!) and likes to play like he is Indy
on adventures. Mostly I feel it's pretty healthy! He also used to play like
he is Diego, saving animals from danger. It seems good for the imagination.

I told this to my good friend and she said she agreed with my neighbor! She
is a middle school teacher and feels that children are exposed to too much
violence and they can't process or handle it in the same way adults can. She
thinks violent video games and movies have ratings for a reason and too many
parents ignore them. She told me that my son has violent tendencies from
things we have exposed him to. He copies things he sees in movies. My friend
told me that my son was using a tape measure as a whip the other day when we
were all at a birthday party for a 2 yr old. (He was pretending to be Indy,
chasing the birthday girl with a whip. Now, do I also need to mention my
friend's son was part of the chase as well?) I did not see this and she said
she had to take it away from him. We talked later about how Indiana does not
use his whip on PEOPLE, only to get him out of sticky situations. (I would
have talked with him on the spot if I had known about the tape measure
whip.) I'm sure it was handled without sensitivity. (Yoink! - I don't like
the way you are playing so I'm taking that now, as in you are being punished
for the way you are playing.) Maybe we need to watch part of the movie
again? I guess I also don't know how to talk to my friend who has constant
interactions with my son because of our friendship.

He went through a phase of being a Kung Fu Panda where he would air punch or
kick at his friends and her son (14 mos younger) cried a lot when they
played together. I think my son needs some older friends, but also that he
should know when someone doesn't want to play like he does and find
something they can enjoy together. That is hard when I'm sort of forcing him
to play with this 3 yr old because his mom and I are friends! DH and I talk
a lot about respecting other people, though we're not sure we're getting
through to him because he still does punch moves and light saber attacks.
Perhaps we are approaching it wrong? How to talk to a 4 yr old?!

I don't know how this is related, or if I could even bring it up with my
friend, but the whole time we were talking on the phone about the movie
violence topic, her 3 yr old was hitting her and yelling MAMA! MAMA!
MAAAAAMAAAAA!!!! to get her attention. Several times I heard her yell at him
to be quiet or stop hitting her and to get off of her and how he needed to
go find something to do while she was on the phone. I finally said you've
got your hands full, we can talk later. It just struck me as odd that her
child was doing that on his own, as she can tell you he has never seen a
violent movie! How do I address that? I know there is an arguement there
somewhere, I just can't put it together!

Thank you for your thoughts on this. If this has been brought up a thousand
times, just tell me to search the archives! I appreciate your comments and
help!

Kim Zerbe
mom of 1 in Oregon



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jodi Bezzola

~~She is a middle school teacher and feels that children are exposed to too much
violence and they can't process or handle it in the same way adults can. She
thinks violent video games and movies have ratings for a reason and too many
parents ignore them.~~
 
Blah blah blah <g>.  This really applies only to parents and kids who spend waaaaay not enough time together and aren't very connected.  A paradigm that applies to schooled and not-mindfully-parented kids really doesn't apply to unschooled and mindfully parented kids.  Someone has come along and decided that such and such an age shouldn't watch such and such a movie.  It's just another set of rules that have been set for the benefit of the parents, in the name of it being 'for their own good'.  Makes me gag quite frankly.  So easy in the moment to say, 'that's the rule', or 'because I said so', and yet it can be so damaging to my relationship with my kids.  It makes so much more sense to me to operate on a case-by-case/kid-by-kid/moment-by-moment basis within my family
 
~~She told me that my son has violent tendencies from things we have exposed him to. He copies things he sees in movies. My friend told me that my son was using a tape measure as a whip the other day when we were all at a birthday party for a 2 yr old. (He was pretending to be Indy, chasing the birthday girl with a whip. Now, do I also need to mention my friend's son was part of the chase as well?) I did not see this and she said
she had to take it away from him. We talked later about how Indiana does not
use his whip on PEOPLE, only to get him out of sticky situations. (I would
have talked with him on the spot if I had known about the tape measure
whip.) I'm sure it was handled without sensitivity.~~
 
To me, another big difference is that we as mindful parents and unschoolers have made the committment to take the time with our kids to find solutions that respect all family members involved because we know it's a better way.  Of course he copies things he sees in movies!  It's really does take more thought, more consideration, more trust, more compromise, more conversation, more time, to be available to work things out with our kids in a respectful manner.  I had lots of conversations with people when we first started down this path that I wouldn't even engage in now.  Reminds of Kelly's line that goes something like, 'how interesting, please pass the bean dip'.  My new one is 'you may be right'.  They think I've agreed and they stop trying to be right.  Works like a charm.  I plan to practice it with my in-laws next weekend <g>.
 
Jodi
 
 
 

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

lyeping2008

Hi Kim,

For a start, 2 books you may wanna catch up on about tv and violence
for kids

1. Killing Monsters: Why Children Need Fantasy, Super Heroes, and
Make- Believe Violence: Gerard Jones,

2. Don't Bother Me Mom -- I'm Learning! Marc Prensky (i haven't read
this yet, but it sounds good and will eventually get to it)


I dont' believe in all those ratings. My son censor his own
watchings. He decides what's scary and what's not. In Asia, we watch
anything and everything at any age. And we have proven to the world
we're a civilised and advance continent, not barbarians.

> their brains are not developed in such a way that they can process
what they are seeing and make sense of things in reality and how
they relate to the real world).

How would anyone knows when our brains is ready for anything? Would
our kid be violent because he's just seen the coyote tried to kill
the roadrunner with a big bunch of dynamites? Or maybe try to hit
himself with a hammer because he's just watch Jerry hit Tom's tail
with a hammer? Our children have what you'll call common sense. This
is where an involve parent will have the opportunity to speak to the
child if the child is unsure of what he's just saw- because the
child trust us enough to come to us for advice/ opinion.

Now what's the difference between the violence in Loony Toons and
the violence in all these other rated movies? Does animation and
funny creatures makes it not violent?

Because if you look carefully Tom and Jerry is actually a very
violent show. Or Powder Puff Girls or Tweety Bird and Slyvester.
It's all to kill or be killed. Or get blown up.

>People keep telling me that kids who are exposed to violence become
violent and I am so sick of hearing it!

You are not "this people". Who are they? Do they really matter? No
they don't, because they don't know what they are talking about.
They are merely repeating what's been told to them. So learn to
blank out the next time they start to blah blah blah.

>helping him respect the boundaries of others. His 3 yr old friend
has not seen Star Wars and doesn't want to (or know how to) fight
with stick light sabers!

Your need to help your child find friends with similar interest. You
cannot expect someone who's got no interest in StarWars to
understand the fascination with lightsabers. You need another child
(age is of no relevance) that loves Indiana Jones and Star Wars.
Generally you'll find children that likes Star Wars and Indiana
Jones, have very similar interest- they speak the same lingo!

FYI My child too tried to use his dad's measuring tape for a whip
LOL!! Great mind think alike LOL!!! I think it's the retracting
action that makes them think it's like a whip. But this doesn't mean
he's trying to kill someone with a measuring tape! It's call
creative thinking LOL!

>she feels that children are exposed to too much violence and they
can't process or handle it in the same way adults can. She thinks
violent video games and movies have ratings for a reason and too many
> parents ignore them.

Rules are meant to be broken. Remember this saying? Can she honestly
say she herself never ever broken any rules/ laws at all? Why is she
such a believer that rules for children must be good and therefore
is beneficial to obey it? Is she saying that her peers that grew up
watched all those old cowboys movies is faulty?

Is she suggesting that in all the current war zones now like
Pakistan, there will never be a chance for those children there
growing up and creating a peaceful future generation? Surely, if you
growing up in a war zone, you're not just playing the game, you're
constantly exposed and living the violence right?

The children is our future. What hope will the world have now, for a
peaceful future, with so many wars going on?

Violent movies have been around for some many decades. We all
watched it, our parents watched it, their parents watched it. Before
the law enforce such ratings.

Surely by now, we must be facing a world chock full of killers and
violence right? But yet, this is not the case, is it? We're all
sensible human being.

People will say what they wanna say, believe what they wanna
believe. So, your girlfriend thinks your child is violent because
your child watches violent shows like Kung Fu Panda and Indiana
Jones. So then let her believe what she wants to believe.

You know your child, and that what's matters. Focus on your life,
and disregard how other's lead thier lives. Like the other mother
wrote, just acknowledge thier views and be done with it. Don't
bother explaining your views because they won't understand it.

As for your child respecting boundaries in other people's home,
maybe it's the wrong home to go visiting? I believe in this. My
kid's very lively and love sticks. So i only go to a home that will
welcome and understand him.

But then, I do always tell my child and any visiting child, my
house, my rules which means you can almost do whatever you want,
from tv to dvd player to computer to ps2, have cupcakes and lovely
strawberry milk or any other drinks you want, as long as I have it
in my fridge. Other mummy's house, then it's her rules.

But really, your kid at 4 years old, he's too young to understand
this "consideration" for other people. So maybe the adults is not
too young to understand such consideration for the younger people?

I also believe violence is nurtured (violent home, abusive
environment), and not something you'll get out of watching or
playing with violence games.

There's a great big debate on the link bwteen violence and movies/
video games (many article can be found on the net).

2 school of thoughts - some believe movies and video games nurture
violence, some believe it's got no foundation - movies and video
games just happened to be current form of entertainment. Just like
many decades ago, Rock&Roll was the vehicle of violence instigator.

As for me, I just only mix with people who can accept my views,
which I will not hide. I rather have no friends than to try to be
friends with people who try to impose thier restricting beliefs onto
me. Maybe this is why i'm alone and my kid only have 1 newly found
friend LOL! But I can tell you, when your child find the right
friend, it;s like kindred spirit meeting. They're on the same wave
lenght, talk the same lingo, and can play harmoniously ALL THE
TIME!!

Hope this helps

SharonBugs

amberlee_b

Remember when Star Wars Episode I was coming out and EVERYONE who was a Star Wars
fanatic was soooo excited about the movie coming? My kids had seen 1 trailer and a
handful of posters....My boys came home one evening after seeing a poster and created
Star Wars costumes using bathrobes, blankets, bits of yarn, etc. They were playing the
movie before it ever came out. Then when the last one was coming with General Grevious
we didn't have TV at the time (no money for cable and our stations didn't come in) they
had no idea what the movie would be like, however they created the costumes. They
created pieces from left over stamps (the part you cut off before you apply them to their
blocks) and made their faces look like Anakin and Grevious. OMgosh I still have photos
and layouts of this. They spent all day creating and getting things just right. Grevious was
trying to figure how he could EAT through the face pieces...LOL

They don't even need the movies to be creative and play like the characters....

As unschoolers we care about the well-being of our children. We discuss the violence they
see and why the decision was made to act in that manner. If my dd when she was 2
thought she wanted to see the Terminator movies I would have to discuss that with her. I
wouldn't just sit her down in front of the movie and say *enjoy*. She is extremely sensitive
to violence, death, murder....that would be wrong of me to not give her the facts so she
could make a decision that wouldn't hamper her ability to sleep. She still doesn't like scary
movies (I love them) but I would never make her watch. She loves Dr. Who, but even then
there are times when it is too much for her. The boys on the other hand can watch and
enjoy Dr. Who or Spiderman and not have issues. Knowing the sensitivities and that she
has said she doesn't wish to watch anything like that helps me help her when she asks
about certain movies. The key is discussion. To talk about what happens in these movies
and let them decide when and if they are ready to watch them.

My eldest LOVES Jurrasic Park and my dd wants to watch it, but only the fun/happy parts.
So she will watch till her brother says ok scary part coming and then either hide her face
or leave the room. We went to the new Indy Jones and she spent at least 60% of the movie
with her ears covered and her face in daddy's arm. She didn't mind having to do that, she
new we wanted to see it. And she enjoyed the parts she watched. She just doesn't prefer
movies like that. Although she LOVED the Nancy Drew movie....but the spooky parts were
limited.

Anywhoo, sorry to babble. I really think discussion, and being there for our kids is what it
boils down too. I understand the worries the other non-unschoolers have, but I agree it
was mostly neglected schooled kids who have the issues. We aren't beyond having our dd
snuggle or sleep with us when she has seen something she didn't want to or
worried/scared her. All part of being parents...all part of being a family...

thanks for the discussion! :)
--- In [email protected], Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...> wrote:
>
> ~~She is a middle school teacher and feels that children are exposed to too much
> violence and they can't process or handle it in the same way adults can. She
> thinks violent video games and movies have ratings for a reason and too many
> parents ignore them.~~
>  
> Blah blah blah <g>.  This really applies only to parents and kids who spend waaaaay not
enough time together and aren't very connected.  A paradigm that applies to schooled and
not-mindfully-parented kids really doesn't apply to unschooled and mindfully parented
kids.  Someone has come along and decided that such and such an age shouldn't watch
such and such a movie.  It's just another set of rules that have been set for the benefit of
the parents, in the name of it being 'for their own good'.  Makes me gag quite frankly.  So
easy in the moment to say, 'that's the rule', or 'because I said so', and yet it can be so
damaging to my relationship with my kids.  It makes so much more sense to me to
operate on a case-by-case/kid-by-kid/moment-by-moment basis within my family
>  
> ~~She told me that my son has violent tendencies from things we have exposed him to.
He copies things he sees in movies. My friend told me that my son was using a tape
measure as a whip the other day when we were all at a birthday party for a 2 yr old. (He
was pretending to be Indy, chasing the birthday girl with a whip. Now, do I also need to
mention my friend's son was part of the chase as well?) I did not see this and she said
> she had to take it away from him. We talked later about how Indiana does not
> use his whip on PEOPLE, only to get him out of sticky situations. (I would
> have talked with him on the spot if I had known about the tape measure
> whip.) I'm sure it was handled without sensitivity.~~
>  
> To me, another big difference is that we as mindful parents and unschoolers have made
the committment to take the time with our kids to find solutions that respect all family
members involved because we know it's a better way.  Of course he copies things he sees
in movies!  It's really does take more thought, more consideration, more trust, more
compromise, more conversation, more time, to be available to work things out with our
kids in a respectful manner.  I had lots of conversations with people when we first started
down this path that I wouldn't even engage in now.  Reminds of Kelly's line that goes
something like, 'how interesting, please pass the bean dip'.  My new one is 'you may be
right'.  They think I've agreed and they stop trying to be right.  Works like a charm.  I plan
to practice it with my in-laws next weekend <g>.
>  
> Jodi
>  
>  
>  
>
>  
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

rebekah byson

I would even say that "neglected school kids" having those issues is a big
generalization...I was one of those kids and watchedquite a bit of tv
growing up...violent and scary tv...I don't and never had a aggressive bone
in my body. :)
Bekah

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 2:27 PM, amberlee_b <amberlee16@...> wrote:

> Remember when Star Wars Episode I was coming out and EVERYONE who was a
> Star Wars
> fanatic was soooo excited about the movie coming? My kids had seen 1
> trailer and a
> handful of posters....My boys came home one evening after seeing a poster
> and created
> Star Wars costumes using bathrobes, blankets, bits of yarn, etc. They were
> playing the
> movie before it ever came out. Then when the last one was coming with
> General Grevious
> we didn't have TV at the time (no money for cable and our stations didn't
> come in) they
> had no idea what the movie would be like, however they created the
> costumes. They
> created pieces from left over stamps (the part you cut off before you apply
> them to their
> blocks) and made their faces look like Anakin and Grevious. OMgosh I still
> have photos
> and layouts of this. They spent all day creating and getting things just
> right. Grevious was
> trying to figure how he could EAT through the face pieces...LOL
>
> They don't even need the movies to be creative and play like the
> characters....
>
> As unschoolers we care about the well-being of our children. We discuss the
> violence they
> see and why the decision was made to act in that manner. If my dd when she
> was 2
> thought she wanted to see the Terminator movies I would have to discuss
> that with her. I
> wouldn't just sit her down in front of the movie and say *enjoy*. She is
> extremely sensitive
> to violence, death, murder....that would be wrong of me to not give her the
> facts so she
> could make a decision that wouldn't hamper her ability to sleep. She still
> doesn't like scary
> movies (I love them) but I would never make her watch. She loves Dr. Who,
> but even then
> there are times when it is too much for her. The boys on the other hand can
> watch and
> enjoy Dr. Who or Spiderman and not have issues. Knowing the sensitivities
> and that she
> has said she doesn't wish to watch anything like that helps me help her
> when she asks
> about certain movies. The key is discussion. To talk about what happens in
> these movies
> and let them decide when and if they are ready to watch them.
>
> My eldest LOVES Jurrasic Park and my dd wants to watch it, but only the
> fun/happy parts.
> So she will watch till her brother says ok scary part coming and then
> either hide her face
> or leave the room. We went to the new Indy Jones and she spent at least 60%
> of the movie
> with her ears covered and her face in daddy's arm. She didn't mind having
> to do that, she
> new we wanted to see it. And she enjoyed the parts she watched. She just
> doesn't prefer
> movies like that. Although she LOVED the Nancy Drew movie....but the spooky
> parts were
> limited.
>
> Anywhoo, sorry to babble. I really think discussion, and being there for
> our kids is what it
> boils down too. I understand the worries the other non-unschoolers have,
> but I agree it
> was mostly neglected schooled kids who have the issues. We aren't beyond
> having our dd
> snuggle or sleep with us when she has seen something she didn't want to or
> worried/scared her. All part of being parents...all part of being a
> family...
>
> thanks for the discussion! :)
> --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...> wrote:
> >
> > ~~She is a middle school teacher and feels that children are exposed to
> too much
> > violence and they can't process or handle it in the same way adults can.
> She
> > thinks violent video games and movies have ratings for a reason and too
> many
> > parents ignore them.~~
> >
> > Blah blah blah <g>. This really applies only to parents and kids who
> spend waaaaay not
> enough time together and aren't very connected. A paradigm that applies to
> schooled and
> not-mindfully-parented kids really doesn't apply to unschooled and
> mindfully parented
> kids. Someone has come along and decided that such and such an age
> shouldn't watch
> such and such a movie. It's just another set of rules that have been set
> for the benefit of
> the parents, in the name of it being 'for their own good'. Makes me gag
> quite frankly. So
> easy in the moment to say, 'that's the rule', or 'because I said so', and
> yet it can be so
> damaging to my relationship with my kids. It makes so much more sense to
> me to
> operate on a case-by-case/kid-by-kid/moment-by-moment basis within my
> family
> >
> > ~~She told me that my son has violent tendencies from things we have
> exposed him to.
> He copies things he sees in movies. My friend told me that my son was using
> a tape
> measure as a whip the other day when we were all at a birthday party for a
> 2 yr old. (He
> was pretending to be Indy, chasing the birthday girl with a whip. Now, do I
> also need to
> mention my friend's son was part of the chase as well?) I did not see this
> and she said
> > she had to take it away from him. We talked later about how Indiana does
> not
> > use his whip on PEOPLE, only to get him out of sticky situations. (I
> would
> > have talked with him on the spot if I had known about the tape measure
> > whip.) I'm sure it was handled without sensitivity.~~
> >
> > To me, another big difference is that we as mindful parents and
> unschoolers have made
> the committment to take the time with our kids to find solutions that
> respect all family
> members involved because we know it's a better way. Of course he copies
> things he sees
> in movies! It's really does take more thought, more consideration, more
> trust, more
> compromise, more conversation, more time, to be available to work things
> out with our
> kids in a respectful manner. I had lots of conversations with people when
> we first started
> down this path that I wouldn't even engage in now. Reminds of Kelly's line
> that goes
> something like, 'how interesting, please pass the bean dip'. My new one is
> 'you may be
> right'. They think I've agreed and they stop trying to be right. Works
> like a charm. I plan
> to practice it with my in-laws next weekend <g>.
> >
> > Jodi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kim Zerbe

Thanks so much Jodi! I've been mulling over the phrase "you might be right."
How perfect to end an arguement or nip it before it gets started. I love the
bean dip post, but have not been able to adapt it to my situation wherever
we are, (like if there is no bean dip, then what? pass me a napkin? is there
another good phrase?).

I think my friend just likes to argue lately! She just had a baby 2 mos ago
and has not been herself since. Her husband is NOT helping at all with the
baby or the 3yr old and that is taking it's toll on her. I have also been
thinking a LOT about what has been said about losing friendships along the
way and although I do not want to lose this particular friend just yet
(we've come a long way together, she is now using cloth diapers on her 2nd
baby and has read the Dr Sears Baby Book, which in my mind is a step in the
gentler direction!), I do see where our parenting styles differ and it is so
hard. We used to watch each other's kids in trade, but not so much now. I
kind of stopped asking after I found out she made my son sit in a time out
on the stairs when both boys were fighting over a toy at her house. I sent
her articles to read about the effects of TOs, and she almost stopped
talking to me. She replied with an email saying how she was doing the best
she knew how and then listing things she thought I did that were wrong (she
took it as a slam on her parenting style, not as something to consider and
learn from!). But this was right before we went on vacation for a week then
she had her baby so things changed, and we have not really discussed the TO
thing or what happened afterwards.

I guess I hope to influence her in a positive way through our friendship,
but it does get harder and harder to watch the way her husband treats their
3 yr old and to see my son dread her son coming over. Her 3yr old really
looks up to my 4yr old, but they always seem to fight, and since the other
kid started walking, he was quite a clutz and every time he visited he would
break a toy usually by stepping on it. Plus we have some toys like a marble
tower kit that my son is gentle with but is NOT suitable for young clutzy
kids that he always wants to play with and breaks pieces to. So my son
started saying he didn't want this kid to come over because he always breaks
his toys (I did not instigate him saying this), and we started trying to put
his favorite things away when we knew Bill was coming over so he couldn't
step on them, but it's kind of sad that we had to do that! And this kid
would ransack the house anyway and find the coolest toy and my son would cry
just out of fear he would destroy it.

She is also having problems with us. When we go out to dinner in particular,
it is a strain on their family, especially if her husband goes. He yells at
their kid to stay in his seat, eat this, drink that, pick up a fork, put
that down, stop whining, you name it. One time we were walking up to IHOP
and my son got up on a wall (which he does every time we go there) and
walked all the way across the top of this brick wall (3ft off ground,
restaurant is at top level) and her son followed and she yelled for him to
stop, then ran over and yanked his arm, yelling because he didn't listen to
her, and dragged him in to the place. Meanwhile I said nothing to my son (he
was ahead of us and I saw no problem with it) and I guess she wanted me to
do the same. I ignored it, but the same thing happened as we left, my son
went back to the wall to walk along on it to the parking lot. Again I had no
problem with this, but she freaked out and dragged her son to the car. My
son stopped and asked why Bill was in trouble. I just said, "his mom was
worried about him following you because she doesn't think he's ready to walk
along a wall by himself without holding her hand. He doesn't have good
balance and he might fall. I don't worry about you because you have
excellent balance (totally true!) and you never fall. Just remember he is
younger than you and can't do everything you can do, so be careful where you
lead him."

I guess I assume my son appreciates when I talk to him like that. Like he is
a person worthy of consideration and a conversation. Not just someone who
gets yanked around by the arm and told not to do things.

Anyway, I should see this disconnect and stop having them over, right?! But
this is one of my best friends. Otherwise we'd have moved on by now. I don't
even know why she means so much to me, she just does! I've been trying to
meet up at outside places more, that way the toys are neutral. I do see the
boys growing apart over the next few years, once Bill goes to school for
sure.

Bottom line is that while I do not want to bail on this friendship, I DO
need to find my son some more suitable friends!!! That is my goal this
month. :) I have 2 outings planned for next week, Wed & Fri, with other
unschoolers. Even though the outings are far from our town, I feel it will
be good for us to see how other US kids are.

How's it going with the in-laws?? Best of luck!

Kim



_____

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jodi Bezzola
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] more on movie violence



~~She is a middle school teacher and feels that children are exposed to too
much
violence and they can't process or handle it in the same way adults can. She
thinks violent video games and movies have ratings for a reason and too many
parents ignore them.~~

Blah blah blah <g>. This really applies only to parents and kids who spend
waaaaay not enough time together and aren't very connected. A paradigm that
applies to schooled and not-mindfully-parented kids really doesn't apply to
unschooled and mindfully parented kids. Someone has come along and decided
that such and such an age shouldn't watch such and such a movie. It's just
another set of rules that have been set for the benefit of the parents, in
the name of it being 'for their own good'. Makes me gag quite frankly. So
easy in the moment to say, 'that's the rule', or 'because I said so', and
yet it can be so damaging to my relationship with my kids. It makes so much
more sense to me to operate on a case-by-case/kid-by-kid/moment-by-moment
basis within my family

~~She told me that my son has violent tendencies from things we have exposed
him to. He copies things he sees in movies. My friend told me that my son
was using a tape measure as a whip the other day when we were all at a
birthday party for a 2 yr old. (He was pretending to be Indy, chasing the
birthday girl with a whip. Now, do I also need to mention my friend's son
was part of the chase as well?) I did not see this and she said
she had to take it away from him. We talked later about how Indiana does not
use his whip on PEOPLE, only to get him out of sticky situations. (I would
have talked with him on the spot if I had known about the tape measure
whip.) I'm sure it was handled without sensitivity.~~

To me, another big difference is that we as mindful parents and unschoolers
have made the committment to take the time with our kids to find solutions
that respect all family members involved because we know it's a better way.
Of course he copies things he sees in movies! It's really does take more
thought, more consideration, more trust, more compromise, more conversation,
more time, to be available to work things out with our kids in a respectful
manner. I had lots of conversations with people when we first started down
this path that I wouldn't even engage in now. Reminds of Kelly's line that
goes something like, 'how interesting, please pass the bean dip'. My new
one is 'you may be right'. They think I've agreed and they stop trying to
be right. Works like a charm. I plan to practice it with my in-laws next
weekend <g>.

Jodi






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Lovejoy

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Zerbe <kim.zerbe@...>







Thanks so much Jodi! I've been mulling over the phrase "you might be right."
How perfect to end an arguement or nip it before it gets started. I love the
bean dip post, but have not been able to adapt it to my situation wherever
we are, (like if there is no bean dip, then what? pass me a napkin? is there
another good phrase?).





-=-=-=-=

"So, how"s your mother?"


"I love what you've done with your hair!"

"How's the bursitis?"

"Where are y'all going for vacation?"

"What does Joey want for Christmas?"

"When did you get fish?"

"Can you believe all the construction on I-95?"

"I LOVE your new ficus!"







The point is to change the subject.





~Kelly




~Kelly








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

>>>Thanks so much Jodi! I've been mulling over the phrase "you might be
right."
>>>How perfect to end an arguement or nip it before it gets started. I love
the
>>>bean dip post, but have not been able to adapt it to my situation
wherever
>>>we are, (like if there is no bean dip, then what? pass me a napkin? is
there
>>>another good phrase?).


My Grandpa would think of something he'd forgotten to do and say "I forgot"
"just a minute" and leave for a few minutes. If the person continued where
they left off when he got back ... "hey! I'll be right back".... and take
a little longer getting back.

I asked him later what he'd forgotten and he told me if people are getting
to ya, just look very very VERY busy. ;) And he winked. He was cute and
charming and funny.

You don't have to provide an audience. At some point, Grandpa had figured
that out. Brian is good at it too. Feeling called elsewhere to do
something.

They don't explain their absences.

Grandpa was a confounder of anything deep, dark or muddy. Things he had
absolutely no interest in talking about: religion, politics. Things he
spent sometime laughing and cutting up about: those silly wrestling matches
on TV-- such a hoot.

~Katherine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stacey Grimm

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:

> "Can you believe all the construction on I-95?"

And this will always be a good one, because when is I-95 ever *not*
under construction??


--
~Stacey

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Kim Zerbe"
<kim.zerbe@...> wrote:
>> I guess I hope to influence her in a positive way through our
friendship,

If you want to influence her, be kind. Be generous and gracious and
supportive. Give her all the mindfullness you'd give your own child -
not that you should see her as a child, but the basic principles of
unschooling apply outside the realm of parent-child relationships.
They can be applied to all relationships.

> I've been mulling over the phrase "you might be right."
> How perfect to end an arguement or nip it before it gets started.

In a way, its a variation on "say yes more."
Its something we say to Morgan, in fact. She periodically comes up
with her own ideas about The Way the World Really Is - odd things
like she insists she's nine years old (she's 7!). She thought she
was 8, bc its 2008, and then when she had a birthday, well,
obviously she turned 9. Perfectly logical, except the facts are
wrong. But we're used to these sorts of Mo Truths and it doesn't
help to argue, it only makes her furious and even more sure she's
right. Adults do that, too, especially on the subject of parenting.
I'm doing the Right Thing (because no-one likes to thing they're
doing wrong to their children) I'm Sure Of It!

---Meredith (Mo 7, I'm sure of it!, Ray 15 and George says he's sure
of that, but you know guys...)

Kim Zerbe

Your grandpa sound very funny!! And pretty wise too, to not get involved
when he doesn't want to. :) The things we can learn from the older
generation!

Kim



_____

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of k
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 8:44 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] more on movie violence



>>>Thanks so much Jodi! I've been mulling over the phrase "you might be
right."
>>>How perfect to end an arguement or nip it before it gets started. I love
the
>>>bean dip post, but have not been able to adapt it to my situation
wherever
>>>we are, (like if there is no bean dip, then what? pass me a napkin? is
there
>>>another good phrase?).

My Grandpa would think of something he'd forgotten to do and say "I forgot"
"just a minute" and leave for a few minutes. If the person continued where
they left off when he got back ... "hey! I'll be right back".... and take
a little longer getting back.

I asked him later what he'd forgotten and he told me if people are getting
to ya, just look very very VERY busy. ;) And he winked. He was cute and
charming and funny.

You don't have to provide an audience. At some point, Grandpa had figured
that out. Brian is good at it too. Feeling called elsewhere to do
something.

They don't explain their absences.

Grandpa was a confounder of anything deep, dark or muddy. Things he had
absolutely no interest in talking about: religion, politics. Things he
spent sometime laughing and cutting up about: those silly wrestling matches
on TV-- such a hoot.

~Katherine

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kim Zerbe

AH, thanks so much Kelly. I was sort of joking about having no bean dip
around, but I do have a hard time jumping to another topic that is not
fluid. I just need to have SOMETHING in the back of my mind to SAY for a
while, then it will become easier to think of ANYthing that changes the
subject. Speaking of changing the subject, I can do this very successful
with this one friend Jen (works like the Jedi mind trick!); it is actually
pretty amazing that it works so well on her! But it does not work on Lily,
the friend I've been talking about. She will change the subject back if
she's not done or bring it up again later.

One day Jen and Lily were going off on me about why my son is not vaccinated
and how critically important for society it is for all kisd to have their
shots. Jen is a nurse and Lily is a public school teacher and both claim to
know first hand what certain diseases can do to children. (Lily is actually
a special ed teacher and I would hope she would realize what vaccines have
done to some of those kids!!) But with both of them going on and on about
herd immunity I glazed over and then reached into my bag to pull out some
papers and said OH, I need to tell you guys about this! (something to do
with my sale, I do a seasonal consignment sale for those who don't know) and
the subject was changed for good. They did not revisit later, I kept them
occupied on the details of the sale (both help me with planning and
execution of the sale).

Kim Zerbe
www.passitonsales.com
in case anyone doesn't know what a consignment sale is! They are all over
the country. You should all find one in your area!!!
This might help: www.kidsconsignentsales.com


_____

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kelly Lovejoy
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] more on movie violence



-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Zerbe <kim.zerbe@verizon. <mailto:kim.zerbe%40verizon.net> net>

Thanks so much Jodi! I've been mulling over the phrase "you might be right."
How perfect to end an arguement or nip it before it gets started. I love the
bean dip post, but have not been able to adapt it to my situation wherever
we are, (like if there is no bean dip, then what? pass me a napkin? is there
another good phrase?).

-=-=-=-=

"So, how"s your mother?"

"I love what you've done with your hair!"

"How's the bursitis?"

"Where are y'all going for vacation?"

"What does Joey want for Christmas?"

"When did you get fish?"

"Can you believe all the construction on I-95?"

"I LOVE your new ficus!"

The point is to change the subject.

~Kelly

~Kelly

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Oct 10, 2008, at 11:36 PM, Kim Zerbe wrote:

> Thanks so much Jodi! I've been mulling over the phrase "you might be
> right."
> How perfect to end an arguement or nip it before it gets started.

Some good phrases I've used:

"You might be right."
"I'll give that some thought."
"Thanks for the ideas."
"Let me think it over for a while."
"We're just going to give this a try."
"I appreciate how much you care."
"You've given me some food for thought."

-pam